Ebikes taking Strava times

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Ebikes taking Strava times
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flag danielvalhall
Posted: Oct 7, 2020 at 21:14 Quote
I have noticed ebikes taking a lot of local koms and it kind of annoys me. I dont really have anything against ebikes in general, but my opinion is that they should not be allowed on strava. What do other people think? or is it just me
flag eshew
Posted: Oct 7, 2020 at 21:28 Quote
If someone chooses to strava on an ebike they have every right to.

You have your PR's, they have theirs. If the world community worked on bettering themselves rather than beating others the world would be a better place.

As a Cisbiker you'll have to learn that the world of cycling is inclusive and everyone has the right to strava, regardless of what kind of bike they ride.
flag R-M-R
Posted: Oct 7, 2020 at 21:48 Quote
Power to the people!

Wait, that's not right ...
flag danielvalhall
Posted: Oct 7, 2020 at 23:34 Quote
R-M-R wrote:
It's not allowed. Report it.
oh true
flag danielvalhall
Posted: Oct 7, 2020 at 23:41 Quote
eshew wrote:
If someone chooses to strava on an ebike they have every right to.

You have your PR's, they have theirs. If the world community worked on bettering themselves rather than beating others the world would be a better place.

As a Cisbiker you'll have to learn that the world of cycling is inclusive and everyone has the right to strava, regardless of what kind of bike they ride.
of course, but prs are different to koms. Like i agree that we should work on ourselves rather than comparing to others, but also getting koms is always a special feeling, and its kind of annoying when someone with an unfair advantage is always ahead of you. I think it would be a great idea for strava to make seperate leaderboards for ebikes and acoustic bikes, that way we can both peacefully occupy strava rather than completely banning ebikes from it, which i dont think they should do. What do you think?
flag R-M-R
Posted: Oct 8, 2020 at 0:24 Quote
Very polite of you to reply that way ... I'm pretty sure eschew was joking!

Inclusivity is great when we're talking about human rights, but all competitions need limits. Just as we don't allow athletes to use certain drugs, we can't allow unfair equipment advantages. Even the UCI E-Bike World Championships sent riders home due to non-conforming motors, so the presence of motors in a non-motorized leaderboard is clearly far outside the range of fair competition.

The solution already exists: Strava already has a separate leaderboard for e-bikes. Maybe there will eventually be a need to subdivide the rankings based on the level of motor assist; this refinement can be addressed as the need arises.
flag blazekelly
O+ FL
Posted: Oct 8, 2020 at 0:29 Quote
Reminds me of a big strava debate on a local facebook group recently. Riders were upset because a person had been placing a device on their dog and the dog was taking the ladies KOMs. The person that was doing it claimed they did it because the ladies had originally taken the KOMs in the winter on fat bikes when the trails (very technical and rocky xc trails) were filled in with snow thus giving them an unfair advantage lol.
Morale of the story, don't worry about the KOMs, just focus on PRs.
flag danielvalhall
Posted: Oct 8, 2020 at 2:53 Quote
R-M-R wrote:
Very polite of you to reply that way ... I'm pretty sure eschew was joking!

Inclusivity is great when we're talking about human rights, but all competitions need limits. Just as we don't allow athletes to use certain drugs, we can't allow unfair equipment advantages. Even the UCI E-Bike World Championships sent riders home due to non-conforming motors, so the presence of motors in a non-motorized leaderboard is clearly far outside the range of fair competition.

The solution already exists: Strava already has a separate leaderboard for e-bikes. Maybe there will eventually be a need to subdivide the rankings based on the level of motor assist; this refinement can be addressed as the need arises.
Thanks! i didnt know that strava already did that. You know i wouldnt be surprised if in the not too far future ebikes split off from mountain bikes completley as a sport. As for uci and other organisations in the cycling industry i dont completely agree with a lot of restrictions they put on bikes allowed to race, i feel like it hinders the progression of the sport. I mean of course their have to be some restrictions as to what can be raced like yknow two wheels no motor stuff like that that keeps mountain biking mountain biking, but other restrictions like wheel size restrictions and aero restrictions and others kind of hinder bike brands ability to experiment with new stuff and therefore hinder the natural progression of the sport. What do you think? also i know that has nothing to do with ebikes but i got nothing better to do than right long ass opinions on stuff
flag danielvalhall
Posted: Oct 8, 2020 at 2:56 Quote
blazekelly wrote:
Reminds me of a big strava debate on a local facebook group recently. Riders were upset because a person had been placing a device on their dog and the dog was taking the ladies KOMs. The person that was doing it claimed they did it because the ladies had originally taken the KOMs in the winter on fat bikes when the trails (very technical and rocky xc trails) were filled in with snow thus giving them an unfair advantage lol.
Morale of the story, don't worry about the KOMs, just focus on PRs.
yeah i guess your right i shouldnt care so much about what times other people get [unless its an actual race]
flag shredjekyll
Posted: Oct 8, 2020 at 3:45 Quote
danielvalhall wrote:
eshew wrote:
If someone chooses to strava on an ebike they have every right to.

You have your PR's, they have theirs. If the world community worked on bettering themselves rather than beating others the world would be a better place.

As a Cisbiker you'll have to learn that the world of cycling is inclusive and everyone has the right to strava, regardless of what kind of bike they ride.
of course, but prs are different to koms. Like i agree that we should work on ourselves rather than comparing to others, but also getting koms is always a special feeling, and its kind of annoying when someone with an unfair advantage is always ahead of you. I think it would be a great idea for strava to make seperate leaderboards for ebikes and acoustic bikes, that way we can both peacefully occupy strava rather than completely banning ebikes from it, which i dont think they should do. What do you think?

There is always going to be that hardo who WILL skirt the rules to get the KOM if possible. I don't see how to reliably separate ebikes and regular bikes on Strava.. The reporting system doesnt even work, people can just repeatedly say "NAH THIS RIDE WAS LEGIT!"... Still happens all the time with GPS issues...
flag R-M-R
Posted: Oct 8, 2020 at 9:33 Quote
danielvalhall, To quickly address a few of your points:

I don't think e-bikes will fully split from human-powered bikes because the experience can be so similar. I think we'll see a continuum between human-powered bikes and motocross bikes, with e-bikes of various power levels filling in the gaps at all power levels. The challenge will be to determine where to draw the line for trail access and how to enforce it.

Currently, a popular criterion is motorized vs. non-motorized, which groups horses, hikers, and bikers together and places e-bikes in the same category as motorsports. I feel a better criterion is human vs. non-human, which can allow e-bikes in the human category if we clearly define "human". I would propose:

• Maximum combined power comparable to the fittest human cyclists, which would be roughly 350 watts sustained indefinitely and shorts bursts over 1000 watts.
• Maximum boost ratio of 1:1, so the system is never more "machine" than "human".

Even a significantly not fit human should be able to sustain around 100 watts, which would yield a combined 200 watts, allowing this rider to ride at the pace of an above-average rider. This keeps the speeds and the experience within the existing realm of mountain biking; allows the creation of e-bikes that are lighter, cheaper, and/or have very long range; and may remove the need for a speed cut-off.

On the topic of restrictions, you're correct the UCI has been overly restrictive of bike design for competition. Thankfully, mountain biking does not have the restrictions on wheel size, geometry, frame configuration, tube shape, etc. that apply to road racing. Restrictions will always have to apply to powered competition, though, such as e-bikes. Motorsports have restrictions on countless aspects of vehicle design, particularly motor size or power output; similar principles will have to apply to e-bike racing.


shredjekyll wrote:
There is always going to be that hardo who WILL skirt the rules to get the KOM if possible. I don't see how to reliably separate ebikes and regular bikes on Strava.. The reporting system doesnt even work, people can just repeatedly say "NAH THIS RIDE WAS LEGIT!"... Still happens all the time with GPS issues...

True, it will always be a challenge. Strava has been quick to act on past complaints of riders cheating, so we can only hope Strava will continue to be responsive to complaints.
flag KVJACKSON
Posted: Oct 8, 2020 at 10:03 Quote
I know everyone would like to be the fastest......

But just remember to keep the fun in MTB. If you like to Starva, you should only worry about PR's. If you like to be competitive, be competitive with your buddies.
flag theolderigetthefasteriwas
Posted: Oct 8, 2020 at 16:14 Quote
Bad form if it's intentional KOM hunting on an ebike, however, as both an ebike and normal rider there have been a couple of times I've inadvertently KOM'ed on my ebike when I've forgotten to flag as ebike (don't worry, since deleted), and I'm not a regular Strava user so I can easily go a couple of weeks without looking. And as you can see from other comments, a lot of people aren't even aware there is a way to flag as an ebike.

Now what if you've got a 9kg XC hardtail, is that cheating against the guy on a 15kg 160mm Enduro bike (I'm presuming we're talking uphill KOM's). Should there be different categories for bike type?

Having said all that, does it really matter? Unless you're in an actual race there's always going to be variables, heat, wind, ground conditions etc. If competition is what you're after, then go out and race, otherwise use it as a fun tool and don't get too hung up on it.
flag R-M-R
Posted: Oct 8, 2020 at 17:08 Quote
theolderigetthefasteriwas wrote:
Now what if you've got a 9kg XC hardtail, is that cheating against the guy on a 15kg 160mm Enduro bike (I'm presuming we're talking uphill KOM's). Should there be different categories for bike type?

No.

There will always be differences in equipment. Riders are free to choose what best suits their purpose. We have to draw the line somewhere on how to level the playing field and the line has always been human-only vs. powered. Road racing took a safety-oriented stance on this with a minimum weight in a time when light bikes were getting sketchy. Maybe the weight chosen is now outdated, but the principle remains valid for professional racing; for amateur racing, it seems reasonable to forego this rule.


theolderigetthefasteriwas wrote:
Having said all that, does it really matter? Unless you're in an actual race there's always going to be variables, heat, wind, ground conditions etc. If competition is what you're after, then go out and race, otherwise use it as a fun tool and don't get too hung up on it.

This is an argument against Strava as a whole. Traditional racing vs. social media "vitual racing" is a valid discussion, but it's outside the scope of the current discussion, which is premised on people using - and, presumably, enjoying - Strava.
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