Reasons to not go to AXS

Author Message
flag seraph
Posted: Nov 5, 2020 at 8:57 Quote
onyxss wrote:
seraph wrote:
onyxss wrote:


Jokes aside...if shifting gears hurts your hands then you have totally out of line position of shifter or serious health issue - maybe you should invest AXS money to good doctor and physiotherapy.

All 12-speed Shimano drivetrains shift under load without any problem, mis-shifting is thing of past.

Or I could just run AXS shifting because it’s the only system I can run that won’t hurt my hands. I’ve been a bike mechanic for 20 years and my hands are wrecked from decades of use and abuse. But thanks for making blind assumptions without knowing all the facts.
You are welcome - for good assumption - you have serious health issue as i predicted - and doctors and physio stuff can make wonders these days for wrecked parts of bodies. Even for the price of few AXSs. Good luck!
Over and out...

Yeah, AXS is cheaper.
flag Natyork
Posted: Nov 7, 2020 at 9:59 Quote
Will just cost too much, and I quite like (not intentionally) smashing my rear mech on stuff so I don’t think anything above gx or xt is for me
flag seraph
Posted: Nov 7, 2020 at 10:10 Quote
I have a friend who smashed his XX1 AXS derailleur on his S-Works Enduro, bashed it straight into a rock, and it snapped right back into place. Worked flawlessly.
flag JustAnotherRiderHere
Posted: Nov 7, 2020 at 10:28 Quote
Natyork wrote:
Will just cost too much, and I quite like (not intentionally) smashing my rear mech on stuff so I don’t think anything above gx or xt is for me

In one year I broke 4 GX.....XX1 has been much more resistant to my crappy trail skills. Simply, stronger.
flag mark-p
Posted: Nov 8, 2020 at 5:53 Quote
The reliability thing puzzles me, I cannot remember when I last had a cable fail, even on my commuter bike that is used daily in all weathers. To me there is more faff as the amount of electronic gadgets to control things increases. All need charging and whilst shifting may need less force, you are on a sodding MTB. Unless you have arthritis in your thumb or it is damaged. What is the advantage?

I happen to prefer Shimano mainly XT on the bikes, it has been bombproof.

In my opinion the only winners are the companies making the stuff.
flag DHhack
Posted: Nov 8, 2020 at 6:40 Quote
mark-p wrote:
The reliability thing puzzles me, I cannot remember when I last had a cable fail, even on my commuter bike that is used daily in all weathers. To me there is more faff as the amount of electronic gadgets to control things increases. All need charging and whilst shifting may need less force, you are on a sodding MTB. Unless you have arthritis in your thumb or it is damaged. What is the advantage?

I happen to prefer Shimano mainly XT on the bikes, it has been bombproof.

In my opinion the only winners are the companies making the stuff.

Helps cure annoying internal cable routing rattles? Bro flex at the trailhead? One dropper for multiple bikes? It can have its advantages to some people. I’ll stick with my old timer stuff for now though.
flag seraph
Posted: Nov 8, 2020 at 8:55 Quote
mark-p wrote:
The reliability thing puzzles me, I cannot remember when I last had a cable fail, even on my commuter bike that is used daily in all weathers. To me there is more faff as the amount of electronic gadgets to control things increases. All need charging and whilst shifting may need less force, you are on a sodding MTB. Unless you have arthritis in your thumb or it is damaged. What is the advantage?

I happen to prefer Shimano mainly XT on the bikes, it has been bombproof.

In my opinion the only winners are the companies making the stuff.

AXS has the advantage of offering perfect shifting precision when adjusted properly, without suffering from cable stretch over time. It also knows how hard to shift to the next gear, eliminating user error when shifting multiple gears. And with the app, you can program stuff like multi-shift to control how many gears it will shift at a time when you hold the button down, allowing you to fine-tune your gear selection while riding. I think it's an amazing system that works 100% as designed. Once you try it it's basically impossible to go back to cables. I even have it on my flat bar Litespeed commuter with a Red AXS derailleur and 10-33 cassette.
flag mark-p
Posted: Nov 8, 2020 at 9:02 Quote
AXS has the advantage of offering perfect shifting precision when adjusted properly, without suffering from cable stretch over time. It also knows how hard to shift to the next gear, eliminating user error when shifting multiple gears. And with the app, you can program stuff like multi-shift to control how many gears it will shift at a time when you hold the button down, allowing you to fine-tune your gear selection while riding. I think it's an amazing system that works 100% as designed. Once you try it it's basically impossible to go back to cables. I even have it on my flat bar Litespeed commuter with a Red AXS derailleur and 10-33 cassette.[/Quote]

I am genuinely interested in how it prevents user error. Does it detect chain or cassette motion and prevent the derailleur from changing gear if there is none? I can see that it avoids the issues where the lever gets knocked and you start with things in the wrong place. I can also see how it removes the need for adjustment or particularly the relationship between gears assuming that everything is perfectly aligned. On the issues of cable stretch it may do it a small amount when you first put it on but very rarely after that. On my commuter bike with a 10 speed I had an issue with indexing but that turned out to be the hanger being bent and I am assuming that all derailleurs are subject to that.
flag seraph
Posted: Nov 8, 2020 at 9:46 Quote
mark-p wrote:
I am genuinely interested in how it prevents user error. Does it detect chain or cassette motion and prevent the derailleur from changing gear if there is none? I can see that it avoids the issues where the lever gets knocked and you start with things in the wrong place. I can also see how it removes the need for adjustment or particularly the relationship between gears assuming that everything is perfectly aligned. On the issues of cable stretch it may do it a small amount when you first put it on but very rarely after that. On my commuter bike with a 10 speed I had an issue with indexing but that turned out to be the hanger being bent and I am assuming that all derailleurs are subject to that.

I mean user error as in overshifting. Since you're only pressing a button that tells a motor to shift a gear, you're eliminating the possibility of accidentally pushing the lever too far and causing the chain to get caught by the shift ramps leading to the next gear.
flag Danzzz88
Posted: Nov 8, 2020 at 10:15 Quote
Most cable actuated drivetrains shift perfectly anyway, mis-shifting is a thing of the past, cable rattle is pretty much non existant on frames with cable guides for their internal routing, and most shifters are plenty smooth enough to not need loads of finger force, maybe axs is a nice luxury and makes things the tiniest bit easier but it doesn't solve any real world problems, an xtr m9100 cassette with hyperglide up and down will still shift smoother and better under load than Axs and an eagle cassette. Literally paying £800 for a switch because you can't be arsed moving a spring lever is literally the most 1st world nonsense ever, it's like having a trashcan with an electronic lid cos you can't be arsed lifting the lid yourself.
flag seraph
Posted: Nov 8, 2020 at 10:23 Quote
Danzzz88 wrote:
Most cable actuated drivetrains shift perfectly anyway, mis-shifting is a thing of the past, cable rattle is pretty much non existant on frames with cable guides for their internal routing, and most shifters are plenty smooth enough to not need loads of finger force, maybe axs is a nice luxury and makes things the tiniest bit easier but it doesn't solve any real world problems, an xtr m9100 cassette with hyperglide up and down will still shift smoother and better under load than Axs and an eagle cassette. Literally paying £800 for a switch because you can't be arsed moving a spring lever is literally the most 1st world nonsense ever, it's like having a trashcan with an electronic lid cos you can't be arsed lifting the lid yourself.

Yeah, it doesn't matter how accurate a mechanical shifting system is, the variable is user error. AXS eliminates that possibility. Trust me, I've been a mechanic for 20 years and the human aspect of shifting has always been the weak point.

Your trashcan analogy is flawed because there's no chance of "over opening" the trash can lid by doing it manually.
flag Danzzz88
Posted: Nov 8, 2020 at 10:30 Quote
How can anyone be so inept that they can't feel and count the clicks in the shifter, it's blatently obvious when you have shifted 1,2 or 3 clicks, in fact I don't think I have ever shited more gears 'accidently' in my life. And hypothetically even if that does happen to some people once in a blue moon is it worth £800 and more unsprung mass hanging off the back to remedy it? Don't get me wrong if Axs was like £400 and weighed the same for a derailleur as a mechanical I would buy it, but I see no real life advantage other than to pose and look like a bellend at the trail centre in front if strangers. Pros don't run it so why does some 40yo slob wasting his inheritance money to cruise around seated at 15mph need it.
flag seraph
Posted: Nov 8, 2020 at 10:39 Quote
Danzzz88 wrote:
How can anyone be so inept that they can't feel and count the clicks in the shifter, it's blatently obvious when you have shifted 1,2 or 3 clicks, in fact I don't think I have ever shited more gears 'accidently' in my life. And hypothetically even if that does happen to some people once in a blue moon is it worth £800 and more unsprung mass hanging off the back to remedy it? Don't get me wrong if Axs was like £400 and weighed the same for a derailleur as a mechanical I would buy it, but I see ni real life advantage other than to pose and look like a bellend at the trail centrr in front if strangers.

I'm not making excuses for people who can't shift. I'm just saying that there is always the possibility of user error when shifting anything, but with AXS it eliminates 99% of that happening.

I've made my points, based on personal experience with the drivetrain myself, as well as the experiences of my customers who run it. You don't have to use AXS if you don't want to. No one is forcing you.
flag adespotoskyli
Posted: Nov 8, 2020 at 11:33 Quote
seraph wrote:
Danzzz88 wrote:
How can anyone be so inept that they can't feel and count the clicks in the shifter, it's blatently obvious when you have shifted 1,2 or 3 clicks, in fact I don't think I have ever shited more gears 'accidently' in my life. And hypothetically even if that does happen to some people once in a blue moon is it worth £800 and more unsprung mass hanging off the back to remedy it? Don't get me wrong if Axs was like £400 and weighed the same for a derailleur as a mechanical I would buy it, but I see ni real life advantage other than to pose and look like a bellend at the trail centrr in front if strangers.

I'm not making excuses for people who can't shift. I'm just saying that there is always the possibility of user error when shifting anything, but with AXS it eliminates 99% of that happening.

I've made my points, based on personal experience with the drivetrain myself, as well as the experiences of my customers who run it. You don't have to use AXS if you don't want to. No one is forcing you.


99% of once in a blue moon ain't much in relation to the cost.,that's the point danzzz is trying to make.
Also I've seen electronics acting up in the most inappropriate moments so...
flag seraph
Posted: Nov 8, 2020 at 11:40 Quote
adespotoskyli wrote:
seraph wrote:
Danzzz88 wrote:
How can anyone be so inept that they can't feel and count the clicks in the shifter, it's blatently obvious when you have shifted 1,2 or 3 clicks, in fact I don't think I have ever shited more gears 'accidently' in my life. And hypothetically even if that does happen to some people once in a blue moon is it worth £800 and more unsprung mass hanging off the back to remedy it? Don't get me wrong if Axs was like £400 and weighed the same for a derailleur as a mechanical I would buy it, but I see ni real life advantage other than to pose and look like a bellend at the trail centrr in front if strangers.

I'm not making excuses for people who can't shift. I'm just saying that there is always the possibility of user error when shifting anything, but with AXS it eliminates 99% of that happening.

I've made my points, based on personal experience with the drivetrain myself, as well as the experiences of my customers who run it. You don't have to use AXS if you don't want to. No one is forcing you.


99% of once in a blue moon ain't much in relation to the cost.,that's the point danzzz is trying to make.
Also I've seen electronics acting up in the most inappropriate moments so...

So you wouldn't pay for 99% shifting accuracy? I would.

I've yet to see AXS components "acting up". I've seen my fair share of Di2 stuff go haywire though.

 


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