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Shigura brakes

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Posted: May 24, 2024 at 16:24 Quote
So bought some Tech 4 V4, gonna be interesting to compare, they aren't bedded in yet, certainly they don't have the more instant bite of Shigura but seem to still have as much power on full lever pull if not more but hard to say until bedded in. One thing for sure is they are massively better than the Tech 3, power comes in much sooner and with way more of it but more modulation than Shigura. The lever action is also lighter than Shigura although it's harder to get a comfortable position due to the very thick lever blades. Seems like the V4's are the ticket for those that want the same or more power than Shigura but with more modulation. If you prefer the more instant bite and smaller levers than Shigura is the way. For those that have tried Tech 3 and Shigura I would say the Tech 4 are like a hybrid of both but with potentially more power and a lighter lever action than either, though on firm pull they are a bit more spongier than Shigura.

Posted: May 24, 2024 at 20:29 Quote
Danzzz88 wrote:
So bought some Tech 4 V4, gonna be interesting to compare, they aren't bedded in yet, certainly they don't have the more instant bite of Shigura but seem to still have as much power on full lever pull if not more but hard to say until bedded in. One thing for sure is they are massively better than the Tech 3, power comes in much sooner and with way more of it but more modulation than Shigura. The lever action is also lighter than Shigura although it's harder to get a comfortable position due to the very thick lever blades. Seems like the V4's are the ticket for those that want the same or more power than Shigura but with more modulation. If you prefer the more instant bite and smaller levers than Shigura is the way. For those that have tried Tech 3 and Shigura I would say the Tech 4 are like a hybrid of both but with potentially more power and a lighter lever action than either, though on firm pull they are a bit more spongier than Shigura.

I really like the Hope Tech 4 V4’s. If I wasn’t using my Trickstuff Maxima’s the Hopes would be on my bike.

I went from a Shigura setup using XTR levers and MT5 calipers after two years to now a year and a half on the Maxima’s. But I’ve installed a few sets of the Hopes onto buddies bikes and they feel pretty awesome.

O+
Posted: May 27, 2024 at 18:03 Quote
HollyBoni wrote:
Looks like after ~2 years my M6100 lever is leaking at the piston again. The previous one lasted about a year, but I barely used the bike last season. The front is still perfect after 3-4 years. Dangit!

Could be dirt buildup. I notice a leaking piston on a couple of my levers. I stripped them and cleaned the piston seals. Replaced them and didn't notice any more leaking. One my main bike, I replaced the seals/piston for a titanium one. It hasn't leaked since.

Posted: May 29, 2024 at 12:51 Quote
Trinimon wrote:
HollyBoni wrote:
Looks like after ~2 years my M6100 lever is leaking at the piston again. The previous one lasted about a year, but I barely used the bike last season. The front is still perfect after 3-4 years. Dangit!

Could be dirt buildup. I notice a leaking piston on a couple of my levers. I stripped them and cleaned the piston seals. Replaced them and didn't notice any more leaking. One my main bike, I replaced the seals/piston for a titanium one. It hasn't leaked since.

Did that on my last levers but there was no improvement, they still leaked.
I did a lever bleed and there was a small puddle of brake fluid under the bike, I think that's past the rebuild phase. Big Grin

O+
Posted: Jun 12, 2024 at 19:25 Quote
Has anybody "Shigura'd" using a 2-piston Magura Caliper? Pros/Cons of such a setup? It seems that most shigura setups are using 4 piston, but I have some extra 2-pistons laying around....

O+
Posted: Jun 14, 2024 at 8:29 Quote
I have. They're excellent.
Obviously less powerful compared to the 4 pistons but plenty still and amazing modulation. The largest benefit is the lack of freestroke. They still engage quickly but not harshly.
I have them on a lighter trail build Wideangle and they're plenty for what I use the bike for. 203/180 rotors - so still plenty of power.

Posted: Jun 21, 2024 at 1:06 Quote
hello guys,
currently I have MT5's but bite point is too long and gets even worse with pads wear + i can squeeze lever all the way to the bar with one finger which really sucks,
power and modulation are great but that squishy feeling i just cannot get used to,
no bleeding helped from 3 different bike shops,

anyways i wanna try shigura setup, that will guarantee very short bite point and stiff brake that cannot be squished all the way to the bar right?

what do I need except shimano levers m8100?
I'm thinking going for Jagwire hoses, they are kevlar reinforced which will give additional stiffness?

So all I need for shigura setup will be?:
m8100 lever set
https://www.bike-discount.de/en/shimano-xt-bl-m8100-brake-lever-set
then jagwire hose:
https://www.bike-discount.de/en/jagwire-mountain-pro-hydraulisches-brake-hose-set
and then I'm not sure do I need Shimano or Magura quick fit adapter?:
magura:
https://www.bike-discount.de/en/jagwire-connection-set-mountain-pro-quick-fit-adapter-magura
or shimano:?
https://www.bike-discount.de/en/jagwire-connection-set-mountain-pro-quick-fit-adapter-shimano


btw xt m8100 are fine, no need for xtr or saints, no difference in lever feeling or power?

btw2, to keep bite point adjustable (shortable) as pads wear, its best to first bleed shigura brakes with free stroke screw all the way OUT (unscrewed), right?

Posted: Jun 21, 2024 at 8:02 Quote
gogoc wrote:
hello guys,
currently I have MT5's but bite point is too long and gets even worse with pads wear + i can squeeze lever all the way to the bar with one finger which really sucks,
power and modulation are great but that squishy feeling i just cannot get used to,
no bleeding helped from 3 different bike shops,

anyways i wanna try shigura setup, that will guarantee very short bite point and stiff brake that cannot be squished all the way to the bar right?

what do I need except shimano levers m8100?
I'm thinking going for Jagwire hoses, they are kevlar reinforced which will give additional stiffness?

So all I need for shigura setup will be?:
m8100 lever set
https://www.bike-discount.de/en/shimano-xt-bl-m8100-brake-lever-set
then jagwire hose:
https://www.bike-discount.de/en/jagwire-mountain-pro-hydraulisches-brake-hose-set
and then I'm not sure do I need Shimano or Magura quick fit adapter?:
magura:
https://www.bike-discount.de/en/jagwire-connection-set-mountain-pro-quick-fit-adapter-magura
or shimano:?
https://www.bike-discount.de/en/jagwire-connection-set-mountain-pro-quick-fit-adapter-shimano


btw xt m8100 are fine, no need for xtr or saints, no difference in lever feeling or power?

btw2, to keep bite point adjustable (shortable) as pads wear, its best to first bleed shigura brakes with free stroke screw all the way OUT (unscrewed), right?

Honestly I don't even remember how my full Magura setup felt, but the Shigura setup doesn't have a rock hard lever feel. A full Shimano setup feels stiffer.
However, no issues with the levers going to the bars, even with worn pads and a lever with no bite point adjustment. The levers going to the bars is not normal for any brake system.

With levers you won't get any real benefits above M7100 to be honest.

Posted: Jun 21, 2024 at 9:57 Quote
gogoc wrote:
hello guys,
currently I have MT5's but bite point is too long and gets even worse with pads wear + i can squeeze lever all the way to the bar with one finger which really sucks,
power and modulation are great but that squishy feeling i just cannot get used to,
no bleeding helped from 3 different bike shops,

anyways i wanna try shigura setup, that will guarantee very short bite point and stiff brake that cannot be squished all the way to the bar right?

what do I need except shimano levers m8100?
I'm thinking going for Jagwire hoses, they are kevlar reinforced which will give additional stiffness?

So all I need for shigura setup will be?:
m8100 lever set
https://www.bike-discount.de/en/shimano-xt-bl-m8100-brake-lever-set
then jagwire hose:
https://www.bike-discount.de/en/jagwire-mountain-pro-hydraulisches-brake-hose-set
and then I'm not sure do I need Shimano or Magura quick fit adapter?:
magura:
https://www.bike-discount.de/en/jagwire-connection-set-mountain-pro-quick-fit-adapter-magura
or shimano:?
https://www.bike-discount.de/en/jagwire-connection-set-mountain-pro-quick-fit-adapter-shimano


btw xt m8100 are fine, no need for xtr or saints, no difference in lever feeling or power?

btw2, to keep bite point adjustable (shortable) as pads wear, its best to first bleed shigura brakes with free stroke screw all the way OUT (unscrewed), right?

Unless your hose is in need of replacement, skip replacing it. You can use either a Magura or Shimano BH59 barb with a Shimano olive.

That is really all you need.

Posted: Jun 21, 2024 at 15:26 Quote
I wonder where this aponginess with certain brakes over others comes from..obviously the hose may expand a little and some levers are probably less flexy but in generally what is creating the sponginess. For example if like above a shimano setup is less pongy than Shigura but is still using shimano lever and the difference in hose expansion is probably negligible between the 2 setups then what on earth is flexing caliper side to create sponginess?

Imo I think it's just brakes with higher hydraulic leverage ratios feel spongier but those same brakes also create more ultimate power, but maybe I'm wrong.

Posted: Jun 22, 2024 at 0:15 Quote
Danzzz88 wrote:

Imo I think it's just brakes with higher hydraulic leverage ratios feel spongier but those same brakes also create more ultimate power, but maybe I'm wrong.

That could be true, because a lot of low end hydro brakes tend to feel rock solid.

To me that can feel a bit weird tho. I use/used some low end Tektros and Shimanos recently. Their lever pull is super short, and when they bite it feels like you hit a wall, and doesn't matter how much harder you pull the lever just doesn't want to budge. It feels like you can't really modulate them.

Posted: Jun 22, 2024 at 4:32 Quote
HollyBoni wrote:
Danzzz88 wrote:

Imo I think it's just brakes with higher hydraulic leverage ratios feel spongier but those same brakes also create more ultimate power, but maybe I'm wrong.

That could be true, because a lot of low end hydro brakes tend to feel rock solid.

To me that can feel a bit weird tho. I use/used some low end Tektros and Shimanos recently. Their lever pull is super short, and when they bite it feels like you hit a wall, and doesn't matter how much harder you pull the lever just doesn't want to budge. It feels like you can't really modulate them.

Yea it's probably because of the higher hydraulic leverage, maybe ut just creates additional pressure somewhere and amplifies itself at the lever in terms of more travel past the stop point. I mean are motorbike brakes pretty spongy?, I've squeezed a couple but don't have much experience with them?

Posted: Jun 22, 2024 at 16:13 Quote
Danzzz88 wrote:
HollyBoni wrote:
Danzzz88 wrote:

Imo I think it's just brakes with higher hydraulic leverage ratios feel spongier but those same brakes also create more ultimate power, but maybe I'm wrong.

That could be true, because a lot of low end hydro brakes tend to feel rock solid.

To me that can feel a bit weird tho. I use/used some low end Tektros and Shimanos recently. Their lever pull is super short, and when they bite it feels like you hit a wall, and doesn't matter how much harder you pull the lever just doesn't want to budge. It feels like you can't really modulate them.

Yea it's probably because of the higher hydraulic leverage, maybe ut just creates additional pressure somewhere and amplifies itself at the lever in terms of more travel past the stop point. I mean are motorbike brakes pretty spongy?, I've squeezed a couple but don't have much experience with them?

So are you still enjoying the T4-V4’s? I’m still rocking the Shigura’s but like you’ve commented already, there’s more players in the game now. The Hope’s are exactly what I’m curious about as well. I’ve started hearing mixed opinions over on MTBR lately regarding Hopes new stuff which gives me some pause

Posted: Jun 22, 2024 at 17:29 Quote
Well the new Tech 4 V4s are way way better than the Tech 3s that is for sure, are they better than Shigura, I don't know it depends. Outright power I think is a lot, can't tell if it's more because the pads seem a lot more finicky about contamination, bed in etc and seem to change all the time. When they have worked well they do seem to have alot of power perhaps as much as Shiguras, possibly more or not it's hard to say. What I do know is though that when I first fitted Shiguras they seemed to bit hard almost straight away, at least seemed to for sure after just a few short stops, the Hopes are not like that, the bed in isn't as fast and they don't have the same power that the Shiguras did without bed in but I think this is possibly a pad or contamination issue. They have a lighter lever action than Shigura and it is a bit smoother and more refined feeling, the lever feel is quite different though maybe because of the shape. They do have more modulation than Shigura too aswell as great power on full pull but it's hard to say which I prefer. I felt I could modulate Shigura just fine, the bite was sharp but it felt like you modulate with finger force with Shigura whereas with Hope it more feels like you modulate more with lever travel if that makes sense. They are both fantastic brakes just very different in their power delivery, ultimate power though I would say is similar...on paper the Hope V4's are the most powerful brakes out there I think up there with Maximas according to the Enduro magazine group test. I think it's the pads that are making some difference here, plus I think the Hope caliper is better suited to a wider disc than I am currently running to remove a bit of the dead stroke.

I will say though if you have tried Tech 3's they are far superior to those. Much smoother and lighter lever feel, with earlier bite and a lot more power. They are like a balanced brake I would say with a lot of potential power with the right pads. They don't have too much initial bite but not too much modulation either. If for example though you absolutely love the small curved lever of Shigura and hard initial bite with short lever stroke and a firmish lever on full pull then you may not like the Hopes because they don't feel like that, the lever feel is quite different and they do have more sponginess at full pull. I think a wider disc and different pads could get them much closer to the Shigura feel, short dead stroke and high initial bite though.
Looks wise is no contest really, and the refinement and lever smoothness makes the Shimanos feel a bit cheap in comparison tbh.
If I still had Shiguras I wouldn't complain though, they are still absolutely fantastic and up there with the best even today, though maybe not as far ahead as they once were.

Posted: Jun 22, 2024 at 21:28 Quote
Danzzz88 wrote:
I wonder where this aponginess with certain brakes over others comes from.

The majority of the time it is air pockets in the system. Leaks (regardless of size) would leave fluid, and hose expansion is minimal across all major brands.


 


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