Brake shootout: Hayes Dominion A4 vs. Hope V4 vs. TRP Quadium vs. Magura MT7

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Brake shootout: Hayes Dominion A4 vs. Hope V4 vs. TRP Quadium vs. Magura MT7
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Posted: Nov 9, 2020 at 8:23 Quote
Hello,

Don't know if there's a tread like just like this one (but believe there's a lot of mt7 vs. every other brake)

Long story short

Currently running the hope v4's (floating in the front, and vented in the rear) and to be honest I'm not really that satisfied with the stopping power/ lever compression, the modulation and the build quality is the best out there for sure !

I'm a 110kg+bike (16kg) rider, I've used the v4's for about a year now, the pads/ disc are clean, no air in the system

The pads are sintered by hope and discobrakes

Exp. during descending my arm doesn't get any pumps just my small finger because my rear needs more lever compression that I can feel that it's slowing me down and as for the front I really need to push my body to the bars to do a stoppie

So I've been for something that requires less lever compression and gives more stopping power

I hope that someone can help me with this "problem"

So as i looked up these brakes:
Hayes
Pros: modulation, build, good compression/ power curve
cons: bleed (some say, but it looks like the SRAM bleed procedure just with 2 bleed ports for the caliper so thats ok)

Hope
Pros: modulation, build, bleed
cons: power

Magura
Pros: modulation, good compression/ power curve
cons: bleed, build

TRP
Pros: modulation, build, bleed
cons: lacking power


And by the way.. I'm selling the hopes Big Grin

Posted: Nov 10, 2020 at 5:39 Quote
I’ve ran the TRP G-spec Quadiem brakes all season on the dh bike (I’m about 100kg kitted up), using the same set of stock pads. 15 days of park laps plus a couple shorter local trail days setting up the bike in total. The rear brake is just now acting like it needs a bleed, but it’s still usable and not going to the bar. Power is of the want more squeeze more variety, not at all twitchy feeling like Shimano. Very similar to SRAM Code or Formula Cura 4 in that it’s easy to modulate in bad trail conditions or on steep rock slabs, the key difference being I haven’t had to deal with sticky pistons like I did with Formula and SRAM. Formula Cura 4 had just a tiny bit more power than TRP but the TRP has been easier to live with day to day. I’ve only got a couple runs on Hope and I wasn’t impressed, but that wasn’t my bike so I can’t really say much about it.

If you’re a set it and forget it type of rider, I’d recommend the TRP quads for sure.

Posted: Nov 12, 2020 at 1:20 Quote
In your list, I've used Magura MT7 and Hope V4 (both the Tech Evo and current Tech 3). In absolute power, they're pretty close, but you have to use a ton of pressure on the lever to get as much power on the V4s ... As you have already noticed.

I'm a bit heavier than you, for comparison.

MT7, their main problem is sadly the reliability.. There's a flaw in the way the membrane is positionned at the master cylinder, and basically if you even have to push the pistons back in the caliper, I'd really recommend removing the bleed screw and putting in a syringe with a bit of fluid. The overpressure from pushing the pistons back would vent into the syringe, and not expand too much and damage the membrane.

Other than that, setting the caliper up can be a pain in the buttocks as it's pretty long, and the lever feel is ... sub-par. Once you're used to it it's fine, but it requires some time to get used to it. The HC and HC3 levers make that better, but also more expensive.

Hayes, I've heard really good things from a friend who is as picky as I am with his brakes. Bleed is a bit finicky, but as you said, similar to the SRAM procedure. Hayes has made a few videos on how to do it. It would be my recommendation from your list.

TRP, even with the recent DHR Evo, I'd still stay away from them. They're built strong, lever feel is pretty good, but they really lack power. If you were 70kg, sure, could be enough, but 110+, forget it.

I'd definitely consider the SRAM Code RSC, similar price to the MT7 and I prefer a lot more the lever feel. Power is a bit down though.


Finally, in an all-out, no-limit budget, I'd definitely consider the Trickstuff. And if price isn't an issue, well finding a pair of Direttissima is going to be it ... They have about 12-15months of lead time, and not sure anyone has a pair in stock ... They are worth it, if you want consistent lever feel, ton of power, friction-less pistons, but finding a pair is just really hard.

Never tried the "Shigura" setup (Shimano lever, MT7 caliper) as I consider the Shimano master cylinders to be utter garbage (wandering bite point even on brand new brakes, and very fragile lever on the M81XX brakes for example).

Heard both good and terrible things about Formula Cura4, definitely do not get 2nd hand ones that might be from the early versions (those were proper crap), but the more recent ones seem to be fine. The lever is a bit flexy, but the caliper is one of the bigger on the market for piston size (4x18mm pistons). Might be a nice contender for some mix-n-match master cylinder/caliper Smile


So in the end, I'd vote Hayes A4, then Magura MT7 (with HC3 levers if possible).

Posted: Nov 12, 2020 at 5:48 Quote
Magura MT5 are very close to MT7 in power. Way more powerful than Hopes and half the price. Mine have been totally reliable (3 sets across different bikes). They are a bit messy to bleed, nothing like as bad as the Hopes though! As said above they can also be tricky to get perfectly aligned. Performance wise though, I think they're superb. Enough modulation for control in the worst Scottish slop and heaps of power. The best brakes I've owned for sure. For reference, I've also had:

Shimano XT 2 and 4 pot
Hope V4s
Code Rs
Levels

EDIT - I use the big levers on mine. Wasn't sure at first, but I've totally adjusted to them now so I wouldn't bother changing. They are huge though, so you might not want to have your dropper and/or gears on the same clamp.

Posted: Nov 13, 2020 at 12:16 Quote
Just installed Dominions. Haven't even ridden them yet but will weigh in on the bleed... annoying that they won't work with a SRAM/Avid bleed kit. While the threads are a match, the fittings don't seal at the caliper or the lever (thumbwheel bottoms out on caliper, not sure why it doesn't seal at lever). I was able to get a bleed using the SRAM kit with only positive pressure and a huge mess, but it's not a perfect bleed and was very annoying. How hard it is to just try to standardize a little bit when it's THAT close?

Hayes bleed kit now on order and would consider it a mandatory part of the purchase if you're going to have to open the lines like I did (internal routing and needed to shorten both).

Was previously on Code RSCs and will update when I get enough ride time to compare.

Posted: Nov 15, 2020 at 18:16 Quote
Second thing to note is that the caliper body is bigger than Shimano or Codes (and maybe others) so brake adapters may not clear. Neither my Shimano +20mm nor my generic +20mm adapters (off of my old YT) fit. Ended up filing down the YT adapters to fit.
Shimano and generic YT 20mm PM adapters. Neither cleared the Dominion A4s so the YT adapter has been filed to fit.
Shimano and YT +20mm PM adapters (YT filed to fit).

Posted: Nov 16, 2020 at 13:42 Quote
Ploutre wrote:
In your list, I've used Magura MT7 and Hope V4 (both the Tech Evo and current Tech 3). In absolute power, they're pretty close, but you have to use a ton of pressure on the lever to get as much power on the V4s ... As you have already noticed.

I'm a bit heavier than you, for comparison.

MT7, their main problem is sadly the reliability.. There's a flaw in the way the membrane is positionned at the master cylinder, and basically if you even have to push the pistons back in the caliper, I'd really recommend removing the bleed screw and putting in a syringe with a bit of fluid. The overpressure from pushing the pistons back would vent into the syringe, and not expand too much and damage the membrane.

Other than that, setting the caliper up can be a pain in the buttocks as it's pretty long, and the lever feel is ... sub-par. Once you're used to it it's fine, but it requires some time to get used to it. The HC and HC3 levers make that better, but also more expensive.

Hayes, I've heard really good things from a friend who is as picky as I am with his brakes. Bleed is a bit finicky, but as you said, similar to the SRAM procedure. Hayes has made a few videos on how to do it. It would be my recommendation from your list.

TRP, even with the recent DHR Evo, I'd still stay away from them. They're built strong, lever feel is pretty good, but they really lack power. If you were 70kg, sure, could be enough, but 110+, forget it.

I'd definitely consider the SRAM Code RSC, similar price to the MT7 and I prefer a lot more the lever feel. Power is a bit down though.


Finally, in an all-out, no-limit budget, I'd definitely consider the Trickstuff. And if price isn't an issue, well finding a pair of Direttissima is going to be it ... They have about 12-15months of lead time, and not sure anyone has a pair in stock ... They are worth it, if you want consistent lever feel, ton of power, friction-less pistons, but finding a pair is just really hard.

Never tried the "Shigura" setup (Shimano lever, MT7 caliper) as I consider the Shimano master cylinders to be utter garbage (wandering bite point even on brand new brakes, and very fragile lever on the M81XX brakes for example).

Heard both good and terrible things about Formula Cura4, definitely do not get 2nd hand ones that might be from the early versions (those were proper crap), but the more recent ones seem to be fine. The lever is a bit flexy, but the caliper is one of the bigger on the market for piston size (4x18mm pistons). Might be a nice contender for some mix-n-match master cylinder/caliper Smile


So in the end, I'd vote Hayes A4, then Magura MT7 (with HC3 levers if possible).

Trickstuff is out of my budget for sure, but it would be cool to try them at least Big Grin
The bleed is not a problem, Before I used avid code for years from the model 2008 to the 2013 I got used to the plunging bleed

Posted: Nov 16, 2020 at 13:43 Quote
ohio wrote:
Second thing to note is that the caliper body is bigger than Shimano or Codes (and maybe others) so brake adapters may not clear. Neither my Shimano +20mm nor my generic +20mm adapters (off of my old YT) fit. Ended up filing down the YT adapters to fit.
Shimano and generic YT 20mm PM adapters. Neither cleared the Dominion A4s so the YT adapter has been filed to fit.
Shimano and YT +20mm PM adapters (YT filed to fit).

This is not a problem at all, I've done the same to the hope's Big Grin

Posted: Nov 25, 2020 at 23:27 Quote
Yesterday I tried out the hayes a bit..

The feeling when you pull the lever is something similar to the maguras mt7 but better quality built, I've even adjusted the reach all the way to the bars (just for the test), and it still has power unlike the V4 when you pull the reach back you loose power ALOT ..

The A4's have awesome stopping power, i was afraid to pull the lever harder.. the pads inside we're metal, so can't even imagine the power when the sintered pads are in..

These days I'll try the mt7 from a frend with a HC 1 finger lever.. and let you know how that goes.

Posted: Nov 26, 2020 at 5:43 Quote
I dont want to be mean but guys come on Big Grin

If I was 110 kg I would try to get fit in the first place rather thinking about buying high end breaks Razz

I have Maguras MT5 on my Propain Rage and they feel like I would throw an anchor behind me. And my weight is 88 kg what I think is already too much in this sport.

Posted: Nov 26, 2020 at 12:31 Quote
If I was less then 2m, then that would be an option... I'm not fat so that's not an issue

As you can see in my profile picture, no fatty issue Razz

I borowed a set of shiguras (zee+mt7), I'll try them out this weekend and let you know how it goes..

Posted: Nov 26, 2020 at 14:23 Quote
Tried the Maguras- caliper works well but levers are not spill proof and could easily break. Found Most folks switch them out for other brands to really have them dialed in. The appeal of some of these brands is the color options- and I admit my riding buddies bikes with Hope v4 look more flashy.

Now using Code RSC and they work excellent and highly tunable- just not as blingy as those other brands.
Upgraded the rotors to Galfer 203mm and Galfter organic in front, and sintered in back. No squeeks dry or wet and stops on a dime with the Maxxis Minion/aggressor tire combo.

Posted: Nov 26, 2020 at 22:31 Quote
IMHO Hope V4s work significantly better with organic pads (Galfer Red and even Black) compared to the sintered ones from Hope. And if you overheat the sintered, they become rubbish.

Posted: Nov 27, 2020 at 3:58 Quote
To me no matter what pads I had (organic/ metal/ sintered), the lack of power is still an issue, I had the same problem with the V2's I previously owned
(btw guys I'm selling my hope v4's - purple)


Yup, the magura levers are lacking the quality unlike the other brands
But I'll let you know how the shigura combo goes Smile

Posted: Dec 2, 2020 at 3:47 Quote
Here's a interesting list:


https://www.mtb-news.de/forum/t/formula-cura-mit-direttissima-pumpe.834863/page-3#post-15605449

Perfect. I'm looking forward to your assessments.
I will probably have set up all three Trimulas in mid-May. I will probably not drive it until June.

Based on my calculations yesterday, a theoretical braking power ranking would look like this:
1.Trimula DRT-Cura 4 (with an MXA encoder it would be even stronger, but these will not be available to buy individually. You could also buy a Brembo then Wink )
2.Trimula PCA-Cura 4
3.Tr! Ckstuff maxima
4.Trigura DRT-MT5 / MT7; Tripe by Sacki : DDRT-V4; Trimula DRT-Cura 2
5.Magura MT5 / MT7 with two-finger lever (MT7 slightly stronger)
6.Trigura PCA-MT5 / MT7; Tripe PCA-V4; Trimula PCA-Cura 2
7.Trimano DRT-Saint
8.Hayes Dominion V4
9.Formula Cura 4; Sram code; Trimano PCA-Saint;
10.Shigura (MT5 / MT7)
11.Tr! Ckstuff Direttissima; Combination Tr! Ckstuff DRT encoder with 2-piston brake caliper with 22mm piston diameter (Shimano, Hope, Tr! Ckstuff, Magura)
12.Magura MT7 with HC1 / HC3 levers
13.Tr! Ckstuff Piccola; Tr! Ckstuff Piccola HD
14.Formula Cura 2; Shimano Saint
15.Hope Tech 3 V4
The differences between 2nd and 3rd place and between 7th and 10th place are negligibly small and could in some cases be neglected.
With some brakes, the differences in braking performance are even smaller than with the places mentioned above. For this reason I have listed them on the same rank despite minimal differences in terms of braking performance.
I love statistics that I have faked myself I have Beer :thumb:
dispelled any last doubts on my part, which should not mean that everything fits.
There could still be incorrect assumptions, especially with regard to the mechanical transmission and the master piston diameter.
Let's just leave it that way: mexican:

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