21’ Stumpjumper EVO thoughts

PB Forum :: Specialized
21’ Stumpjumper EVO thoughts
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Posted: Oct 24, 2022 at 5:31 Quote
A friend rides an Onyx on his Transition Patrol, loves it except for the pedal kickback. I pedaled it around the lot and noticed what he described as a slight "rubbery" feel in the hub due to the sprag system. They don't "snap" into engagement like a normal hub, rather they engage a little softly. It's still instant, but it does feel different.

FWIW, Chris King hubs are ultra reliable, not very loud, extremely efficient and with 72poe (I think) they are still quite high engagement but still allow for some movement without kickback. I currently run a 54t star in my DT swiss hub, I really miss the CK.

This video also shows how much drag the i9 hubs have in comparison to CK.

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Posted: Oct 24, 2022 at 5:33 Quote
bentin wrote:
It’s a hub, not a rim, so weight isn’t a big deal, but there’s a point that I’d just rather not take that penalty.

100g of weight on the rim or tire would be more noticeable because of the effects of rotational mass, but 100g can still be felt at the hub (or cassette). It's still unsprung weight and will have an effect on how responsive the shock feels.

Posted: Oct 24, 2022 at 5:50 Quote
Pdrenth wrote:
bentin wrote:
It’s a hub, not a rim, so weight isn’t a big deal, but there’s a point that I’d just rather not take that penalty.

100g of weight on the rim or tire would be more noticeable because of the effects of rotational mass, but 100g can still be felt at the hub (or cassette). It's still unsprung weight and will have an effect on how responsive the shock feels.

Agreed, which is why I’ve ruled out the Classics. Vespers do seem to have some reliability issues, but it’s hard to tell if that’s been addressed. I have i9’s and DT Swiss now and have had Kings in the past. Of those, I really only like the DT Swiss. I was really hoping P321 would return to offering quiet pawls, but I suspect the ownership change isn’t a good sign for that. Maybe I’ll just stick with DT Swiss, not sexy, but they work and don’t require the maintenance of Kings or have the cheap bearings of i9’s.

As for Kings not being loud, they’re not as loud as i9’s, but they’re still louder than all other hubs and it’s an annoying, high pitched sound that is annoying in a way that other hubs aren’t. Plus all the maintenance, proprietary tools and lubes are annoying.

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Posted: Oct 24, 2022 at 6:11 Quote
bentin wrote:
Pdrenth wrote:
bentin wrote:
It’s a hub, not a rim, so weight isn’t a big deal, but there’s a point that I’d just rather not take that penalty.

100g of weight on the rim or tire would be more noticeable because of the effects of rotational mass, but 100g can still be felt at the hub (or cassette). It's still unsprung weight and will have an effect on how responsive the shock feels.

Agreed, which is why I’ve ruled out the Classics. Vespers do seem to have some reliability issues, but it’s hard to tell if that’s been addressed. I have i9’s and DT Swiss now and have had Kings in the past. Of those, I really only like the DT Swiss. I was really hoping P321 would return to offering quiet pawls, but I suspect the ownership change isn’t a good sign for that. Maybe I’ll just stick with DT Swiss, not sexy, but they work and don’t require the maintenance of Kings or have the cheap bearings of i9’s.

As for Kings not being loud, they’re not as loud as i9’s, but they’re still louder than all other hubs and it’s an annoying, high pitched sound that is annoying in a way that other hubs aren’t. Plus all the maintenance, proprietary tools and lubes are annoying.

I don't really think my CK hub was that much louder than my 54t. I'm an audio engineer by trade... If I were to guess, I'd say my CK hub was only 3dB louder than my DT. It was a few years ago now, so it could be my memory is failing me. I just find the actual quality of the sound to be much more pleasant on the CK than the DT, which just sounds cheap to me.

Back to the Onyx, my buddy with that hub spent about a month chasing down other rattles and creaks because they were all so much more noticeable. He laughed about it, but said it surprised him at how much it mattered. FWIW here is a video of his bike rolling through some chunk

Posted: Oct 24, 2022 at 8:03 Quote
Pdrenth wrote:
bentin wrote:
Pdrenth wrote:


100g of weight on the rim or tire would be more noticeable because of the effects of rotational mass, but 100g can still be felt at the hub (or cassette). It's still unsprung weight and will have an effect on how responsive the shock feels.

Agreed, which is why I’ve ruled out the Classics. Vespers do seem to have some reliability issues, but it’s hard to tell if that’s been addressed. I have i9’s and DT Swiss now and have had Kings in the past. Of those, I really only like the DT Swiss. I was really hoping P321 would return to offering quiet pawls, but I suspect the ownership change isn’t a good sign for that. Maybe I’ll just stick with DT Swiss, not sexy, but they work and don’t require the maintenance of Kings or have the cheap bearings of i9’s.

As for Kings not being loud, they’re not as loud as i9’s, but they’re still louder than all other hubs and it’s an annoying, high pitched sound that is annoying in a way that other hubs aren’t. Plus all the maintenance, proprietary tools and lubes are annoying.

I don't really think my CK hub was that much louder than my 54t. I'm an audio engineer by trade... If I were to guess, I'd say my CK hub was only 3dB louder than my DT. It was a few years ago now, so it could be my memory is failing me. I just find the actual quality of the sound to be much more pleasant on the CK than the DT, which just sounds cheap to me.

Back to the Onyx, my buddy with that hub spent about a month chasing down other rattles and creaks because they were all so much more noticeable. He laughed about it, but said it surprised him at how much it mattered. FWIW here is a video of his bike rolling through some chunk

Man, that Onyx sounds (or lack thereof) so good! It's nice to just hear the tires and suspension working. Now the bike noises may not be loud enough for another biker to hear you over their own loud hubs but it's enough for hikers to tell something is coming down the mountain. I realize sound is personal and some want as obnoxious as possible, but I think people get used to the beehive and don't realize how much noise pollution it really is in nature. I think if a lot of riders went to a silent hub for a while and then went back to an I9, DT, CK, whatever, it would be more annoying to them. For a long time, noisy was a necessary evil to get quick engagement so it was just something you had to tolerate. Then it kind of became a badge of honor where the louder, the more "core" you were. In researching this weekend, I came across a lot of posts where guys said they used to love loud hubs but then the noise just got to be too much so maybe more manufacturers will work on ways of quietening them down. After spending the weekend comparing hub sounds, majority of them sound like crap. Right after being greased, some sounded reasonable if they could just get them to stay that volume without having to grease them every 2 weeks. I've settled on Vespers.

My comments aren't to start a beef with the loud hub crowd but I've obviously become jaded as many of my friends switched to Hydras and I think that's why I've found myself enjoying riding solo more and more. Nothing worse than being stuck between 2 guys with noisy hubs on a long downhill. It defeats some of the purpose of going out in nature
to try to get away from life's other noises.

Posted: Oct 24, 2022 at 16:20 Quote
Agreed Red777...I ran ONYX Classics for 6 years. The Vespers had some issues when they first came out. Rolling Hydras currently, would like to get back to ONYX and try the Vespers, but put off by the possible issues previously mentioned. 2 friends had the Vespers sent back because of the "spongy feeling". Never had any issues with the Classic hub, just had a thru axle shaft crack back in 2015. Onyx replaced immediately. Onyx has awesome customer service BTW.

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Posted: Oct 25, 2022 at 5:32 Quote
@Red, I also don't love the obnoxious buzz of i9 hubs. They're kind of like the rich kid from the burbs who dresses punk and dyes his mohawk red just to look cool while he pretends not to care in class. Like, yeah, we get it. You're expensive and annoying. CK hubs are like The Ramones showed up and said "oi, lad, step aside. We were cool before you were born and we're not trying to win any contests." Maybe a bad analogy. You can tell where my preference lies....

I happen to ride a lot of metro area mixed-use trails and I find the quick back-pedal to actually be more effective than announcing my presence with words. IDK why it get's their attention more. But usually words are met with a slow turn around and a bovine stare. Onyx hubs "sound" awesome but would require me to get a bell or a squeaky duck on my bars.

Posted: Oct 25, 2022 at 5:37 Quote
Ha, yeah, I have i9’s AND a Spur Cycle. That was an obvious amount of over redundancy.

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Posted: Oct 25, 2022 at 8:05 Quote
Just got a SJ EVO and I'm excited. But want to start off in the "ball park" with the right shock settings. Can you guys please post what you are running, and any tips?

Shock:
Body weight:
PSI/Sag:
Spacers:
LSC:
LSR:
HSC:
HSR:

Me:
Fox Float X, RX tune
230lbs riding weight
Gonna start with whatever psi puts me a bit under 30% sag
Spacers: No idea - could use advice
LSC: not sure yet, will start at open and adjust
LSR: not sure yet, will start at middle and adjust

I also have an EXT Storia from my last bike that I'm sending in for a retune to put on the SJ EVO. That way I can try both and sell the shock I don't want.

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Posted: Oct 25, 2022 at 8:27 Quote
tatchle1 wrote:
Just got a SJ EVO and I'm excited. But want to start off in the "ball park" with the right shock settings. Can you guys please post what you are running, and any tips?

Shock:
Body weight:
PSI/Sag:
Spacers:
LSC:
LSR:
HSC:
HSR:

Me:
Fox Float X, RX tune
230lbs riding weight
Gonna start with whatever psi puts me a bit under 30% sag
Spacers: No idea - could use advice
LSC: not sure yet, will start at open and adjust
LSR: not sure yet, will start at middle and adjust

I also have an EXT Storia from my last bike that I'm sending in for a retune to put on the SJ EVO. That way I can try both and sell the shock I don't want.

Keep both shocks, or sell me the Storia Wink (I'm also 230lbs, but I ride a DVO T3 air) I found the best luck on the DPX2 with the 2nd from largest volume spacer and 28% sag. Ultimately it wasn't enough shock, so I went to a custom tuned DVO and haven't looked back.

Posted: Oct 25, 2022 at 11:29 Quote
Pdrenth wrote:
tatchle1 wrote:
Just got a SJ EVO and I'm excited. But want to start off in the "ball park" with the right shock settings. Can you guys please post what you are running, and any tips?

Shock:
Body weight:
PSI/Sag:
Spacers:
LSC:
LSR:
HSC:
HSR:

Me:
Fox Float X, RX tune
230lbs riding weight
Gonna start with whatever psi puts me a bit under 30% sag
Spacers: No idea - could use advice
LSC: not sure yet, will start at open and adjust
LSR: not sure yet, will start at middle and adjust

I also have an EXT Storia from my last bike that I'm sending in for a retune to put on the SJ EVO. That way I can try both and sell the shock I don't want.

Keep both shocks, or sell me the Storia Wink (I'm also 230lbs, but I ride a DVO T3 air) I found the best luck on the DPX2 with the 2nd from largest volume spacer and 28% sag. Ultimately it wasn't enough shock, so I went to a custom tuned DVO and haven't looked back.

Float X seems to be a step change for the better from the DPX2

O+
Posted: Oct 25, 2022 at 11:38 Quote
Pdrenth wrote:
tatchle1 wrote:
Just got a SJ EVO and I'm excited. But want to start off in the "ball park" with the right shock settings. Can you guys please post what you are running, and any tips?

Shock:
Body weight:
PSI/Sag:
Spacers:
LSC:
LSR:
HSC:
HSR:

Me:
Fox Float X, RX tune
230lbs riding weight
Gonna start with whatever psi puts me a bit under 30% sag
Spacers: No idea - could use advice
LSC: not sure yet, will start at open and adjust
LSR: not sure yet, will start at middle and adjust

I also have an EXT Storia from my last bike that I'm sending in for a retune to put on the SJ EVO. That way I can try both and sell the shock I don't want.

Keep both shocks, or sell me the Storia Wink (I'm also 230lbs, but I ride a DVO T3 air) I found the best luck on the DPX2 with the 2nd from largest volume spacer and 28% sag. Ultimately it wasn't enough shock, so I went to a custom tuned DVO and haven't looked back.
I switched to EXT e-Storia.
Before that I had Fox X PE.
This shock should be there from the start.

Posted: Oct 25, 2022 at 11:42 Quote
my float x has .8 spacer in it, think im up around 290psi for 210lbs.

otherwise it just rides the Bottom out bumper

Posted: Oct 25, 2022 at 12:12 Quote
I’m 160 lbs 195psi 0.4 spacer @28/30% sag uses all the travel and rarely bottoms out

Lsc somewhere mid point but will back off if riding more mellow trails

Rebound 8/9 clicks from closed but will slow down for bike park stuff

O+
Posted: Oct 26, 2022 at 2:14 Quote
Is it possible to slam the seat post without having issues with tire rub on the saddle during full compression ?

Looking at maybe getting oneup dropper 180mm, anyone know it it will fit all the way down ?


(have a medium frame)


 
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