Steep seatube angles resulting in uncomfortable pedalling

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Steep seatube angles resulting in uncomfortable pedalling
Author Message
flag Pigglet13
Posted: Nov 27, 2020 at 0:29 Quote
My experience with steep seat angles and slack head angles is that you have to throw any notion of conventional sizing out of the window and embrace riding a much longer bike overall as the seat angle and head angle shrink the seated ridin* position massively. I’m 5,10 and tried a medium Geometron but found it created exactly the issues stated above. Moved to a large and it’s great, by far the most comfortable riding position I’ve tried. The bike looks big on paper but rides very differently. I find it more agile than the large sb6 and pivot switchblade I had when I bought my first Geometron. I’m confident I would be faster on an XL but at the expense of slow speed agility.

Another aspect of going long steep and slack is that for me and my riding style, having a higher bar height/stack seems to compromise cornering less. For me, this geometry concept has been a revelation. Superb climbing, superb descending and excellent seated comfort.
flag justwan-naride
Posted: Nov 27, 2020 at 2:24 Quote
@Pigglet13: You confirm what I suspected is true, that you more or less need to pick a size according to your known ETT, not reach. As a result of this latest geometry the reach then gets longer and so does the wheelbase. Whether that extra long WB creates other issues is another topic for discussion.
flag fielonator
Posted: Nov 28, 2020 at 14:10 Quote
My 6 year old had the same problem recently. It took her one try to learn how to get going and stop safely with her saddle raised so she couldn't touch the floor. Did i mention she's 6?
flag Danzzz88
Posted: Nov 28, 2020 at 15:08 Quote
fielonator wrote:
My 6 year old had the same problem recently. It took her one try to learn how to get going and stop safely with her saddle raised so she couldn't touch the floor. Did i mention she's 6?

Yes but people of that age don't ride steeps and berms at 20+mph.. how does riding a bike casually at 5mph have anything to do with the issue I am talking about. You might think you are a smartass mate, but I've got news for you...you're not.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

What you forget also is I have been in the habit of having my seat where I can touch the floor since when I was young and assumed that is what most people did, and for good reason, bikes didn't use to have the standover and ability to just jump forwards of the saddle as they do now, most bikes had top tubes where you would crush your balls if you tried to do that.
flag gmoss
Posted: Nov 28, 2020 at 16:20 Quote
Back to 2001 I could not touch the floor in the proper position on a mtn bike. Being low enough to touch is not good for your knees. To me, being low for climbs would be more an issue than at proper seat height. Berms should be irrelevant. I checked today while on the bike and my foot is a good 2 or 3 inches from the ground.
flag Danzzz88
Posted: Nov 28, 2020 at 16:43 Quote
Well if this is all true, then I'm guessing on a medium frame at only 5'8 I should be on a 180mm dropper if fully slammed like my 150 at least. Given that the largest dropper by Oneup is 210mm how are people 6'5 coping with dropper height or do they just have to put up with loads of dropper outside of the seat tube?
flag R-M-R
Posted: Nov 28, 2020 at 17:00 Quote
Danzzz88,

The quickest method to get yourself in the ballpark is to put your heel on the pedal and fully extend your leg, i.e. locked-out knee joint. That out to have you within a centimetre of the ideal seat height.
flag TheShwed
O+
Posted: Nov 28, 2020 at 19:16 Quote
Danzzz88 wrote:
Well if this is all true, then I'm guessing on a medium frame at only 5'8 I should be on a 180mm dropper if fully slammed like my 150 at least. Given that the largest dropper by Oneup is 210mm how are people 6'5 coping with dropper height or do they just have to put up with loads of dropper outside of the seat tube?

You got it... I'm 6'5" and have about 4 inches of seatpost sticking out on both of my bikes. I'm riding a 210mm Oneup Dropper and riding an XXl Hightower LT or a Size 4 GG Trail Pistol.
flag R-M-R
Posted: Nov 28, 2020 at 19:24 Quote
I'm 6'. A riding friend is 6'4" or 6'5". It's not a huge height difference, yet his saddle height must be like getting on a horse.

I also knew a guy of about the same height of Dinka ethnicity. He had long limbs, even by Dinka standards. His fit was ... interesting. Reminded me of Manute Bol!

photo

The point is that everyone's fit is different and yes, some tall folks need a lot of seatpost.
flag PACNW-MTB
O+
Posted: Nov 28, 2020 at 20:09 Quote
I'm 6' 6" and am on a 2020 XXL YT Jeffsy. My dropper only sticks up from my frame an inch or so and it is a 175mm. I could get a longer travel post and have it flush with the top of the seat tube, but this one has been working great so far!

clean
flag fielonator
Posted: Nov 29, 2020 at 1:38 Quote
Danzzz88 wrote:
Well if this is all true, then I'm guessing on a medium frame at only 5'8 I should be on a 180mm dropper if fully slammed like my 150 at least. Given that the largest dropper by Oneup is 210mm how are people 6'5 coping with dropper height or do they just have to put up with loads of dropper outside of the seat tube?

I'm afraid it is all true, welcome to the party.

The ideal situation is to fit a dropper that when fully extended is high enough for efficient pedalling (probably won't be able to touch the floor) and when lowered is out of the way enough for descending. That's pretty much the point of a dropper post. Most posts will be able to sit anywhere between min and max extension as well, for situations where both pedalling and maneuvering on the bike are required. As a rule of thumb I'd say adjisting to be right at full pedalling height is the best place to start for most people.

Some frames don't allow sufficient insertion to get the best of both worlds, so a compromise is required. My transition scout mk1 is one such frame. I'd prefer another 25mm of drop but a 170mm travel post puts the saddle to high for me. 150mm fits better but doesn't go quite low enough to be fully out of the way for descending. It's still pretty good though, and I'm not bothered enough to buy another post and shim the travel to be perfect.

My Bfe has a straight seat tube and so i can run a 170mm post no problem. Newer frame designs have lower seat tubes so folk can run very long travel posts.
flag xtcphil
O+
Posted: Jan 25, 2021 at 8:51 Quote
I have also noticed saddles so high the nose needs to be tilted down. At one point riding in the bike rather then on top of it was the place to be. This new position some call the Tri bike. This is more areo and aids running after, non of which I need to do.
High and forward seems to increase weight on the hands so often a very high bar position is used to counter act it.
Over time, I have moved back and lowered my saddle and found a more bench press position rather then stepping up stairs.
With my saddle high on tech challenging, steep climbs if the front end was lifting I would lower it 10mm and it would make all the difference. In both cases I slide forward on the saddle to be in the same position over the cranks.
I run a WTB saddle that allows a flat position so my legs don't feel drastically shorter when I am forward. I think a lower center of gavity is important in challenging terrain and trying to fiddle the dropper down 10 mm every minute left me interested in another option.
I have a short torso so I took to the forward and high position a long time ago and it took a determined effort to change.
My 2 cents worth
flag skerby
Posted: Jan 25, 2021 at 11:16 Quote
MTB is not therapuetic for the lower back. Quit trying to adapt the bike and go get healthy, the path you are on only leads to frustration and pain.

I spent the last 3 years of my life trying to set my bike up in a way that I could climb pain free. Turns out what I really needed was core mobility and stability.
flag bishopsmike
O+
Posted: Jan 25, 2021 at 12:07 Quote
Pigglet13 wrote:
For me, this geometry concept has been a revelation. Superb climbing, superb descending and excellent seated comfort.

Same here - would never go back. At 5'9" I went from a size medium Ibis Mojo HD with a 382mm reach to a medium Pole Evolink at 480mm (I think?), and it didn't take much to get comfortable.

Far better climbing position and FAR better descending.
flag Staktup
O+
Posted: Jan 25, 2021 at 12:26 Quote
Danzzz88 wrote:
Well if this is all true, then I'm guessing on a medium frame at only 5'8 I should be on a 180mm dropper if fully slammed like my 150 at least. Given that the largest dropper by Oneup is 210mm how are people 6'5 coping with dropper height or do they just have to put up with loads of dropper outside of the seat tube?

Danzz,

I'm also 5'8" and using a 150mm Fox Transfer on both my 2019 SB130 and 2020 Capra Pro Race 29. The new Transfer is shorter overall, insertion depth, and post so I may try a 175 next time but am not sure it will work.

The older Transfer collar is a few mm above the rim of the ST, and when fully extended my leg is slightly bent at 6 o'clock. Everytime I dismount I drop the seat a little to all the way so getting back on is easier. It is now a habit, and I don't fumble around and fall off off-camber hillsides, etc..

I have found that if my post height is lower I am not engaging my legs to their near full extended potential. If I raise it too high so my leg locks I am guaranteed to get quad cramps quickly so I never do that.

If you ride a fatbike in deep snow and dismount and get post-holed (foot/leg sinks in to the knee or crotch), a fixed seatpost will make it very tough to get back on, but a dropper post will make life easier.

 


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