Tire inserts and tubeless liquid

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Tire inserts and tubeless liquid
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flag Snake-Plisskin
Posted: Jan 9, 2021 at 16:57 Quote
What is the scoop on running both? Is there a combo that works well to seal goat heads or is it a gummy mess that ruins the insert when you change tires?

I have been tubeless since the beginning of wheel conversions. Then tried UST then Stans rims when those came out. Always been happy with Stans Flow for everything. Now I’m on 30mm Giant OEM. Tire size is up from the 2.35 I DH raced or the 2.25 I XC raced. Now I’m on 2.6 that feels like a fatbike.

I have been a high pressure person, 38#. Heavy DH where folding lower pressures was not fun or XC race where harder was faster still 38#

Today I’m on an all-mountain/trail bike pig. Not racing DH for beer or XC racing for misery and podiums. So I want to go cushy lower pressures like 25# or so.

Thinking I’m going to crush rims on square rocks of Bootleg Canyon, Moab and Gooseberry. So liners sound like new technology that solve the riddle.

What do you know from experience?
flag DugS
O+
Posted: Jan 9, 2021 at 18:40 Quote
Your question seems kind of vague and not quite sure exactly what you are asking, but I will try and answer.

On a tubeless set up running inserts you will still want to use sealant in your tires to repair and stop leaks while you ride. Most tire inserts (those that I have tried) will not absorb the sealant or become a terrible mess. Though they will be coated in the stuff just like the inside of your tire is.

I am currently using CushCore inside of Maxxis DoubleDown tires mounted on WeAreOne Union wheels, running about 24 psi front and 27 psi rear, weighing 220 lbs.
flag Snake-Plisskin
Posted: Jan 10, 2021 at 12:27 Quote
DugS wrote:
Your question seems kind of vague and not quite sure exactly what you are asking, but I will try and answer.

On a tubeless set up running inserts you will still want to use sealant in your tires to repair and stop leaks while you ride. Most tire inserts (those that I have tried) will not absorb the sealant or become a terrible mess. Though they will be coated in the stuff just like the inside of your tire is.

I am currently using CushCore inside of Maxxis DoubleDown tires mounted on WeAreOne Union wheels, running about 24 psi front and 27 psi rear, weighing 220 lbs.

That is exactly what I’m asking.
flag DugS
O+
Posted: Jan 10, 2021 at 19:17 Quote
Depending on your weight and riding style you can probably run much lighter casing tires with lower air pressure than I am.

Most people seem to use Exo casing with a bit less air than I am, but I like to charge hard straight through the rough as if I was in a race and I don’t like flats.
flag Snake-Plisskin
Posted: Jan 10, 2021 at 21:30 Quote
DugS wrote:
Depending on your weight and riding style you can probably run much lighter casing tires with lower air pressure than I am.

Most people seem to use Exo casing with a bit less air than I am, but I like to charge hard straight through the rough as if I was in a race and I don’t like flats.

You are a good match for me and my style. I’m 210 and hamming the DH, catching air and cornering to maintain speed.

I’m going to try the inserts on my next pair of tires. Thanks for sharing your experience.
flag Matt7082
O+
Posted: Jan 11, 2021 at 9:35 Quote
Same here. I am 220. I was either uncomfortable with high pressure, or getting flats and rolling beads when I rode in low pressure. I bought Cush core and haven’t looked back. I went from riding 34psi in the rear, to 26psi. I haven’t rolled a bead in a corner since I out the inserts in. And just last week I cased a big jump and smashed the rear wheel on a square-edged rock. I landed hard...no damage to tire or rim. And yes, still run sealant in there with the tire inserts.
flag AndyGaspo
O+
Posted: Jan 20, 2021 at 17:23 Quote
I run a rimpact in the rear of my HT and yes I am using Conti sealant with no problems.
flag parkourfan
Posted: Jan 20, 2021 at 18:27 Quote
Snake-Plisskin wrote:
What is the scoop on running both? Is there a combo that works well to seal goat heads or is it a gummy mess that ruins the insert when you change tires?

I have been tubeless since the beginning of wheel conversions. Then tried UST then Stans rims when those came out. Always been happy with Stans Flow for everything. Now I’m on 30mm Giant OEM. Tire size is up from the 2.35 I DH raced or the 2.25 I XC raced. Now I’m on 2.6 that feels like a fatbike.

I have been a high pressure person, 38#. Heavy DH where folding lower pressures was not fun or XC race where harder was faster still 38#

Today I’m on an all-mountain/trail bike pig. Not racing DH for beer or XC racing for misery and podiums. So I want to go cushy lower pressures like 25# or so.

Thinking I’m going to crush rims on square rocks of Bootleg Canyon, Moab and Gooseberry. So liners sound like new technology that solve the riddle.

What do you know from experience?

Liners are designed to not soak up liquid. Stan's race has the crystals in it that can stick to liners and not help you out, so I'd stick the the normal stan's or orange sealant, both of which are pretty time-tested at this point. Yes, other sealants will work.

Cushcore will straight up hold tires onto the rim, and prevent rim dings at the expense of your thumbs/time/$$$ getting them on and off for the first few times. I'm partial to tannus's tubeless offering, which is light, offers a decent amount of sidewall stability, good smashing resistance, and I'm confident that I'll only partially break my thumbs if I'm out in the middle of the woods and need to remove them from the tire.

Stretch out tires (and liners) on the rim for a few days/however long you can before trying to install them, that'll save you a headache. Inserts like cushcore or tannus won't take on sealant, but they will eventually take enough damage from running into things that they won't work anymore. Obviously, the higher pressure you run, the fewer smacks the insert gets, and the longer they last.

Side note, I'm light, don't purposely slap berms for the ig, and have still managed to burp the tannus inserts in the park, so cushcore would be a more solid option for that kind of application. Since you said you're trail riding, I'd go for the tannus.

If you're comfortable posting your weight, riding conditions, and tire model/casing type, I'm sure a few guys here would have exact PSI numbers to throw at you that might help shorten up your timeframe of figuring out the best PSI for that new setup.
flag Snake-Plisskin
Posted: Jan 21, 2021 at 8:15 Quote
parkourfan wrote:
Snake-Plisskin wrote:
What is the scoop on running both? Is there a combo that works well to seal goat heads or is it a gummy mess that ruins the insert when you change tires?

I have been tubeless since the beginning of wheel conversions. Then tried UST then Stans rims when those came out. Always been happy with Stans Flow for everything. Now I’m on 30mm Giant OEM. Tire size is up from the 2.35 I DH raced or the 2.25 I XC raced. Now I’m on 2.6 that feels like a fatbike.

I have been a high pressure person, 38#. Heavy DH where folding lower pressures was not fun or XC race where harder was faster still 38#

Today I’m on an all-mountain/trail bike pig. Not racing DH for beer or XC racing for misery and podiums. So I want to go cushy lower pressures like 25# or so.

Thinking I’m going to crush rims on square rocks of Bootleg Canyon, Moab and Gooseberry. So liners sound like new technology that solve the riddle.

What do you know from experience?

Liners are designed to not soak up liquid. Stan's race has the crystals in it that can stick to liners and not help you out, so I'd stick the the normal stan's or orange sealant, both of which are pretty time-tested at this point. Yes, other sealants will work.

Cushcore will straight up hold tires onto the rim, and prevent rim dings at the expense of your thumbs/time/$$$ getting them on and off for the first few times. I'm partial to tannus's tubeless offering, which is light, offers a decent amount of sidewall stability, good smashing resistance, and I'm confident that I'll only partially break my thumbs if I'm out in the middle of the woods and need to remove them from the tire.

Stretch out tires (and liners) on the rim for a few days/however long you can before trying to install them, that'll save you a headache. Inserts like cushcore or tannus won't take on sealant, but they will eventually take enough damage from running into things that they won't work anymore. Obviously, the higher pressure you run, the fewer smacks the insert gets, and the longer they last.

Side note, I'm light, don't purposely slap berms for the ig, and have still managed to burp the tannus inserts in the park, so cushcore would be a more solid option for that kind of application. Since you said you're trail riding, I'd go for the tannus.

If you're comfortable posting your weight, riding conditions, and tire model/casing type, I'm sure a few guys here would have exact PSI numbers to throw at you that might help shorten up your timeframe of figuring out the best PSI for that new setup.


Already posted weight above, 210#. Minion DHF 2.5 and Dissector 2.4 rear for the time being. I’m open to other options when they wear out. 2.5 being maximum frame clearance in the rear. Fast rolling , but knobby enough to survive Porcupine Rim or Bootleg Canyon.
flag parkourfan
Posted: Jan 21, 2021 at 8:47 Quote
Most guys who plow (or are hacks) at that weight will run a double down casing and light insert in the rear, and DD or exo+ up front.

Enve’s guide to tire pressure is a good place to start. The original 25psi you were talking about is a good place to start, with 23 or so in the front.

Also, if your rear will clear a “true” 2.5, an aggressive (ie dhf/dhr2, the rekon is a little wider) maxxis 2.6 will often clear if for some reason you wanted more volume.
flag Snake-Plisskin
Posted: Jan 21, 2021 at 9:15 Quote
parkourfan wrote:
Most guys who plow (or are hacks) at that weight will run a double down casing and light insert in the rear, and DD or exo+ up front.

Enve’s guide to tire pressure is a good place to start. The original 25psi you were talking about is a good place to start, with 23 or so in the front.

Also, if your rear will clear a “true” 2.5, an aggressive (ie dhf/dhr2, the rekon is a little wider) maxxis 2.6 will often clear if for some reason you wanted more volume.


I’m used to a snappy rear wheel steering bike. AKA SC Bullit 26”. The new geometry 29r is not that. More of a plow bike wether I like it or not.
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