Buyer beware YT customer service

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Buyer beware YT customer service
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flag Rokcore
Posted: Feb 17, 2021 at 14:49 Quote
TLDR: Bad paint, inaccurate exploded diagram and broken Parktool

I bought a YT Capra in March of 2019. From the very beginning the paint on the bike started chipping within the first couple months and not just in exposed areas. Paint was chipping in areas that would not be exposed to rocks (such as the top of the arm connecting the seat stay / front triangle). Not a huge deal...at first. After a year riding the bike the paint was at a point where many areas had paint chips. Down tube, chain stays, seat stays, and the small connecting arms were all affected. So I reached out to YT to get some touch up paint.



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Hi,

I ordered a bike last year, order number -------, and have been having issues with the paint chipping in various spots on the frame. Is there any chance of purchasing a touch up paint kit? Or where to purchase something similar?

Thanks!
-----------------------------------

YT Response:
Hey _____,

Thanks for reaching out to YT!

Unfortunately we do not have touch up paint available however you may be able to find a good match at a paint supply store using a touch up pen etc..

Shred safe out there,
_____
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It sucks but sure the paint isn't in warranty. I would understand this if the paint wasn't chipping from the very start, not very happy that they didn't have touch up paint or even paint codes for the bike. So I kept riding. Until recently I had no issues but there's now so many exposed areas that I don't want to risk having any more aluminum exposed. So I started the process of tearing down the bike to repaint or powder coat the frame (I understand this voids the warranty which would have been fine). I looked at the exploded drawings for the bike and determined the park tool suspension bearing kit would have no issues with removing these bearings. Wrong. The first few came out without issue and then I got to the seat stay bearings. On the exploded diagram the entire seat stay bearing hardware is shown going in from one side of the frame so a reasonable person could assume that hardware also comes out from the same side. So I put the park tool bearing kit to it, got a little tough but kept going based on the drawing information, and ended up breaking the tool (Shout out to park tools for no questions asked replacement). Even more paint cracked at this point which isn't a concern since that's the whole point of the tear down. I'm more concerned about the integrity of the aluminum now.

At this point I was very unhappy with the quality of the bike. So I contacted YT support again. Their response was that the bearings come out from either side of the seat stay.




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Hey _____,

Thanks for reaching out!

Sorry to hear that you are having difficulty removing these bearings.

I just want to confirm that you are trying to remove the bearings out of their own sides.

The bearings have to be pulled one at a time as there is a center lip that prohibits them from being pressed out of the same side.

Cheers,
______


I explained that the paint was now further cracked using a proper tool for the job (assuming the diagrams were right) which means any service to the bike would just crack more paint. It's one thing for paint to chip after a couple years out in the sun but I don't ride often enough for this to be an issue and the bike is always stored inside. I also said there's nothing in the diagram indicating these bearings are directional. So they responded again



______

Hey _____,

I am presently using an Enduro bearing slide hammer in the workshop to remove bearings from our frames.

With this style extractor there is nothing that touches the frame so it is much easier to remove bearings without paint damage.

Sorry to hear about the paint damage that has happened.

Cheers,
_______



Now I'm pissed off that they're implying the tool I chose is wrong. Anyone who has the SBK can say there's no issue with removing other bearings when pressed out from the correct sides.

_______

_____,

I don't see how this is useful for resolving the issue I am having. The frame paint wasn't done properly from the start and I shouldn't have to buy a new tool to service the bike because the paint was falling off right after buying it. I successfully removed the other back to back bearings on the bike and there's nothing on the diagram indicating these should be removed from opposite sides.

To be clear, I would like a replacement frame as this doesn't just affect working on the bearings. The paint wasn't properly done even before receiving the bike and attempting to fix this issue myself (because of a poor response to my paint request initially) has resulted in broken tools (thankfully park tools is replacing this via warranty) from a poor exploded diagram and even further damage to the paint. I don't expect a showroom finish but even in it's original state the paint would rattle off from a season of riding. I'm not an engineer but exposing the aluminum would be a safety issue for the bike which is the whole reason for fixing this in the first place.

Without a replacement frame I don't see this issue being resolved. There's plenty of bikes that have paint in good condition after 10 years of riding such as my previous bike and can be more easily serviced.

-______

_______


At this point their warranty lead gets involved

________
Hello ______,

I am ______, the Warranty Lead here at YT USA.

I totally understand where you are coming from!

Unfortunately our warranty period does not cover paint defects or paint issues.

In this case we would be unable to provide a warranty case for you.

As far as the bearings go, they can be tough to remove, and that is why we typically advise utilizing a professional mechanic for this service.

In this case I do suggest that you run by a trusted bike shop to have those bearings swapped out for you.

Please let us know if you need any additional assistance.

Cheers,
_____

_________



Now they are suggesting that a routine service task should be done by a professional mechanic even though I have a quality tool to do so. I respond again



_,

If the exploded diagram for this model year indicated that the bearings be removed from either side it would not have been an issue and I could have selected the proper tool for removal instead of destroying my ParkTool SBK. A LBS mechanic could have easily made the same assumption given that the exploded diagram shows other parts going in from either side (See the arms connecting the seat stays to the front triangle). In the future I suggest a diagram that breaks the bike apart further, is accurate to which side all parts are installed and suggesting correct tools for removal. Suggesting a professional mechanic for routine service is not an answer for inaccurate diagrams; the very same diagrams a professional shop would reference for service.

-_


_________


Hello ____,

The exploded diagram is primarily used for a visualization of the hardware to easier determine the correct order of installation.

In this case it shows where the bearings go, but isn't intended to provide instruction regarding removal.

Instructions like that would be best directed towards our service team so we can provide you with the best methods for removal.

Cheers,
____

_________

____,

In that case the diagram is inaccurate and does not correctly show the placement of the seat stay bearings in relation to the frame.

If the frame cannot be replaced for cosmetic/potential structure damage then there is nothing else you can do for me and I don't want to waste any more of our time

-____





No offer to check the seat stays, replace the seat stays, no warranty, no touch up paint, and not an acknowledgement of the drawing indicating the wrong order of parts. I just cannot wrap my head around why this is incorrect since many CAD programs will automatically do exploded drawings for you. Don't get me wrong, the bike rides good, but good luck getting help once they have your money. I hope this prevents someone else from making the same mistake as I did and a hard lesson learned to look at manufacturer documentation prior to purchasing a bike. My previous bike, a 2010 Yeti 575, was 8 years old when I bought it but there were no paint chips despite scratches on the frame. My coworkers, who crash more often and harder than I do, also have zero issues with their frames ranging from Trek, Yeti, Pivot, and Scott frames. What gives YT?
flag Rokcore
Posted: Feb 17, 2021 at 14:53 Quote
The seat stay hardware is shown incorrectly as going in from one side. The arm connecting the front triangle and the seat stay is correctly shown as having parts going in from both sides

The accuracy of one part of the drawing misled me into thinking the entire drawing was accurate
flag Rokcore
Posted: Feb 17, 2021 at 16:04 Quote
Please see this album

https://m.pinkbike.com/u/Rokcore/album/YT-Diagram-Issues/

for the paint damage after a couple years of riding (I don't ride often) and certainly not enough to justify the level of damage to the paint across the entire bike
flag DJ-24
Posted: Feb 17, 2021 at 18:58 Quote
Cheap paint jobs on some of these direct to consumer brands is how they keep cost down. Funny enough, I have a Vitus Sentier that cost all of $1100.00 and the paint is beautiful after almost 5 years. Have you considered rawing your frame? It's a bit of work but looks awesome and leaving the aluminum exposed is no problem , it will jus dull a little with time.
flag Rokcore
Posted: Feb 17, 2021 at 19:14 Quote
DJ-24 wrote:
Cheap paint jobs on some of these direct to consumer brands is how they keep cost down. Funny enough, I have a Vitus Sentier that cost all of $1100.00 and the paint is beautiful after almost 5 years. Have you considered rawing your frame? It's a bit of work but looks awesome and leaving the aluminum exposed is no problem , it will jus dull a little with time.

I was going to repaint it myself with dodge plum crazy. This isn't my first paint job and certainly not the largest. At this point I'm considering having it powdered coated to get it out of my hair. The raw finish is also another good option. It's more frustrating seeing people coming to the defense of this quality and service. There's a big disconnect that having a bike shipped to you somehow sets you up for having a crappy product. I've had many things shipped to my door and expect a quality product.My yeti 575 in the profile photo was 8 years old when I got it with flawless paint apart from minor scrapes.

I attached one of my test sheets below. I was testing paints/primers and testing durability by bending the sheet and dropping a very heavy set of keys on it. The paint finally failed/cracked on the top right when it was bent past a 90 degree angle. Minor scratch from keys dropped ~5ft is shown as well

photo
flag DJ-24
Posted: Feb 17, 2021 at 19:41 Quote
Are you planning to put a clear coat over top? That will darken it a shade.
flag Rokcore
Posted: Feb 17, 2021 at 19:46 Quote
DJ-24 wrote:
Are you planning to put a clear coat over top? That will darken it a shade.

That was after the 2K clear coat was applied. It was a quick photo for a friend curious about the project. It looks way better in the sun and I didn't bother doing a full polish (hard to do with a 1/8" sheet of aluminium anyway)
flag Rokcore
Posted: Feb 17, 2021 at 20:13 Quote
Here it is clear coated in the sun prior to impact testing

photo
flag DJ-24
Posted: Feb 17, 2021 at 20:18 Quote
Looks nice. The clear definitely gives it some depth. You should do YT's painting.LOL.
flag Rokcore
Posted: Feb 17, 2021 at 20:20 Quote
DJ-24 wrote:
Looks nice. The clear definitely gives it some depth. You should do YT's painting.LOL.

I would happily take a raw frame free of paint! Would have saved me a lot of headache
flag MattyFive
Posted: Apr 1, 2021 at 0:33 Quote
Nice public service announcement!
Stuff like this is helpful and gives you a good idea of what you're getting into. That paint looks wafer thin and obviously wasn't etched very well.
I'd still get one due to the value on offer but before riding a full covering of heli tape would be in order.
Although my mate has a 2016 CF which is in much better shape so they surely must had modified their business model since!
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