Converting a hybrid bike to tourer/trail bike - bike geometry

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Converting a hybrid bike to tourer/trail bike - bike geometry
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Posted: Apr 8, 2021 at 11:46 Quote
So the question is about geometry and offset specifically. With a cheaper end fork I most likely won't be able to choose the offset. I have seen an article of someone converting an old geometry mtb with 1 1/8 steerer and very similar angles to my frame. I believe they put a tapered 120mm fox 34 in, the result was a much sportier and quicker steering interface and much better downhill performance and though the weight was shifted back, up hill traction wasn't effected much. Also read a lot saying hard tails are much better at accepting longer travel than intended and many of the pit falls with changing angles are directly linked to full suspension. Now I think sticking to 11/8 is probably a better idea but escapes from my want to maybe get a different frame (in the distant future) and being able to transfer parts. But then again I may just make this bike the best off road tourer it can be and build a dedicated mtb in the future. If its polished crap or not, that is what I am doing.

Posted: Apr 8, 2021 at 12:47 Quote
Here's the rub--I personally don't think you have a grasp of geometry, especially working as a system, which is pretty evident in your last comment where nothing you're suggesting is going to result in faster steering (actually the opposite) and it will change a number of other things you're not anticipating.

This may be something you just need to do to learn about. I don't think this crowd is going to be successful imparting knowledge and experience, partly because its hard to initially understand, conceptually, but too because you're set on this idea. If you're convinced its going to work, you don't need our help. Just keep an open mind about why there are a bunch of people explaining that this is probably not going to result in the outcome you want.

Posted: Apr 8, 2021 at 13:09 Quote
Rodwelljason wrote:
So the question is about geometry and offset specifically. With a cheaper end fork I most likely won't be able to choose the offset. I have seen an article of someone converting an old geometry mtb with 1 1/8 steerer and very similar angles to my frame. I believe they put a tapered 120mm fox 34 in, the result was a much sportier and quicker steering interface and much better downhill performance and though the weight was shifted back, up hill traction wasn't effected much. Also read a lot saying hard tails are much better at accepting longer travel than intended and many of the pit falls with changing angles are directly linked to full suspension. Now I think sticking to 11/8 is probably a better idea but escapes from my want to maybe get a different frame (in the distant future) and being able to transfer parts. But then again I may just make this bike the best off road tourer it can be and build a dedicated mtb in the future. If its polished crap or not, that is what I am doing.

You don’t seem to understand it’s a stupid question. That’s what all common sense says. That’s what anybody with any real knowledge of bikes would say. There is literally no logical reason for you to do what you want to do. Sucking it up on your current bike, until you have $1500 (about as much as the total cost of the upgrades you want to do, and less if you buy used) to buy a real touring bike or hardtail, is the safest, and best option for your needs. It will take bags for bike packing, handle mountain bike trails, could take a suspension fork when you have the money and overall provide a significantly superior experience. Modern 1x drivetrains have more than enough range for what you want to do. If you don’t have enough at the top end, run a bigger chainring and suck it up on the climbs. You will also realistically have the same amount of usable gears and it will weigh less.

Posted: Apr 8, 2021 at 14:20 Quote
I understand the process of upgrading a bike slowly as you can't afford a complete bike right now. However saying you want to put an £800+ fork (pike ultimate) on your current bike is ludicrous as that could buy you a much better base bike to start with. Not only that but when it comes to many other things like hub standards and wheels sizes, when you do get a new frame nine of you old parts that you've invested so much in will fit.
You keep on about 3x but I'm sure a modern 2x can achieve everything and more and can be fitted to many modern bikes.
Increasing your fork a little will be fine and I've done it but 35mm +10mm headset that is an increase of over 50% from the 85mm stock fork, come on you must be able to see why people are advising, genuinely, not to do it.
There is good reasons behind everyone saying it's not worth it it the long run.
Worrying about fork offset on the changes you plan is the least of your problems.

I understand what you are trying to do and the bike you want but build around a good starting point I think is what people are mostly trying to get at

Posted: Apr 8, 2021 at 19:47 Quote
Maybe it would be worth mentioning what your budget is? As demo8dave said, you started the conversation talking about wanting to buy a top of the line fork and now you are saying you can't afford a new bike that is not much more. It's a bit confusing as to what your upgrade plan is and what you are willing to spend per upgrade. Giving a hard budget would make it easier for people to recommend options

Posted: Apr 8, 2021 at 23:54 Quote
There is nothing wrong with riding within the bikes limits. You can do some amazing stuff on the rig you have. I have always believed the fork is the most important part when getting to serious mountain biking. However, decent tires with grip trump everything. Dont throw money at this bike, just ride it, a lot, everywhere. Personally i would rather just get some good tires, and swap to a ridgid fork that is suspension corrected. The fork on it now is a slop fest, and brutally heavy. But a race suspension fork is way overkill and expensive. Id drop weight everywhere and toss racks and paniers, go with a light backpack, good tires. It can be a decent trail machine, and even generic cable V brakes will lock up wheels. You have to baby your braking, and feel /listen to traction failing. If they fade, or get hot... Stop for a minute. To get room on bottom bracket, get decent budget thin flat pedals that are sloped on the leading edge and not too wide. Watch for a matching crank with shorter arms used and cheap. Puffier tires will raise you up a bit. Change third chainring for low profile bashguard. Race face are my favorite. Meanwhile save upgrade money for a good solid hardtail. I got a ridgid suspension corrected fork for hundred bucks 3 days ago. Room for a nice wide knobby tire i can really depend on. No slop. Also next frame should be a large...your cramped on that puppy.

Posted: Apr 9, 2021 at 1:26 Quote
I think there is a lot of merit in what being said above.
Rigid fork and high volume tyre would be the best for bang for your buck. I've got a maxxis iKON 2.35 which comes up nice and big, get the pressure down to around 20psi and should be nice and comfy. The problem comes with rear tyre clearance on that fame but the 27.5 wheels should mean you can get a slightly bigger tyre in.

Problem with getting a suspension fork is that you'll likely need a need hub (if you can't convert yours) or wheel depending if it worth rebuilding your rim and then you still have spokes to pay for.

I am genuinely intrigued by this bike build I like the idea of repurposing a bike to make something very functional. I am currently making a entry level ebike hardtail into a commuter with panniers and have made it a super comfy and efficient on the battery.

By the way I had smart Sam 2.25 tyres and they did seem to puncture easily but I had to run them with tubes gripy but nothing special. I now have specialized fast tracks 2.3 that I had lying around and set up tubeless I have not had a puncture and they roll a lot better meaning I can conserve battery and pedal over the motor with ease. They also have a nice volume to them making it very comfy at 25psi (baring in mind it's on a heavy bike)

My brakes are the cheapest Shimano 2pots and are perfectly powerful enough and just as I had it lying round I bumped up the front rotor to 200mm and don't forget this is on a 20kg bike and they still do a great job.
Maybe give your brakes a service, get some soft pads in them. If they are v brakes ran some a while back and once properly set up with quality pads they really surprised me how well they performed.

I ride gravel tracks, road, across fields and through streams on my commute and sort of mellow singletrack and I am still wanting to run panniers as I hate bags and for long days I wouldn't want 10/20kgs+ on my back. Would rather have the panniers wobble about now and again than a bag on my back the whole time

Oh and to go back to the fork mine is 100mm and way more than I really need. I had a 30mm gravel fork before and that was enough for most touring type duties, but would lack on rough trail riding (done on flowy stuff like a trail centre) but I don't think you can really do both well on one bike. I know you kind of don't get this separation between bike categories but my commuter is set up for comfy long distance is a mile away in off road performance to my xc race bike that I've set up to be more capable and comfortable. Unless you go changing things around for different riding days. Build it for 90% of you riding not 10% . I would ride my commuter on trails but wouldn't take it seriously just have a laugh going slow and riding to the bikes abilities, I also do the same on my xc bike, remembering it is an xc bike when riding trails above its pay grade

Like mentioned above, realistically if you can't afford a £1k bike what is the budget for upgrades?

There is a lot to be said for riding what you got and enjoying it for what it is

Posted: Apr 9, 2021 at 2:18 Quote
Just had a guy ask me at work to look at his bike that he is selling.
Kona caldera 26" with 100mm fork, think it had pannier mounts, 3x9 xt drivetrain, disc brakes, ridden less than 300miles and he wants £300. This isn't an advert but when you can pick up bikes like that for less than the cost of a suspension fork it is very hard to see why you are willing to throw so much money at you current bike when you could buy something similar and tweek it for touring or buy it for MTB and use your current one for a dedicated touring bike without having to spend as much on it as you won't need the MTB capabilities.

I can definitely see where you are coming from but maybe have your component choice set far too high making the end result not worth the outlay. I am wondering if you can see the value in some of the points that have been raised by people?

Posted: Apr 9, 2021 at 2:22 Quote
https://www.tredz.co.uk/.RockShox-Judy-Silver-TK-Crown-Adjust-27-5-9QR-Solo-Air-Fork_226590.htm?sku=739682&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=google_shopping&gclid=CjwKCAjw9r-DBhBxEiwA9qYUpdHcd0eb9mk0Mdw3aP_XoXDWB0i3-lUMApNI2ekrWEI4HbQKpFTAjxoChbYQAvD_BwE

And you can get another £5 with a code

If you had said you were fitting something like this then i think people wouldn't be so quick to say no don't do it rather than say you want a top of the line £800 pike

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