Finally Upgrading - Not in love

PB Forum :: 29ers
Finally Upgrading - Not in love
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flag cheese-weasel
Posted: May 6, 2021 at 7:08 Quote
Hey everyone, I'm new to the forum but not new to mtb, I started 20 years ago and never looked back Smile . Just picked up a L carbon 2015 Specialized Enduro 29er from someone on Pinkbike, coming off an XL 2011 Stumpy FSR 26er. I've been riding my stumpy for 7 or 8 years now and even though it is a little big for me (6'1" 175 lbs) I loved it.

I went out for my first ride on my Enduro yesterday fully expecting some noticeable differences but was blown away just how different it was. My wife has an older Enduro and I've ridden it plenty of times and noted how different the geometry and feel were, but between the shrinking of the frame, taller wheels, and 100mm wider handle bars, it feels like I'm learning how to ride all over again. I was ecstatic to finally move on to something more modern but find my enthusiasm waning a little bit after my first short ride. It felt like I was up too high, but also down in a pushup position, plowing every corner wide while also hardly able to keep a line on slow climbs. That being said, it smashed on the DH sections and I overshot half my landings.

My first instinct is to start changing things like the stem and bars to get a feel that is more natural to me since that's what I did to my XL to shrink it down some, but I'm sure that is just me overreacting to how different it feels. Does anyone have any helpful tips or advice for making this transition easier or more natural? (besides "just ride it")
flag epittman
Posted: May 8, 2021 at 11:34 Quote
I totally hear what you're saying. I have a new norco sight that rides like you described. I find it hard to ride precisely after spending a lot of time on my krampus which has more traditional geometry.

You'll find with time that you get used to it, and you'll learn to ride it a bit differently. I find the longer slacker bikes do well with a bit more weight on the front, so try lowering your stem first. Also, they tend to do better when leaned over to turn as opposed to turning the bar. Definitely harder to ride on technical trails, and to keep a straight line when going up.

That's how I make sense of it anyhow!
flag Kruton
Posted: May 13, 2021 at 12:24 Quote
I'd withhold overall judgement on it until you have a few rides under your belt. You are realistically going to have to change some technique to accommodate but once you are used to it, most people enjoy the updated geo
flag Mountainfrog
O+
Posted: May 13, 2021 at 14:40 Quote
I'm 6'1" with long arms and short torso, perhaps you are but IDK. I remedied the leaning over part by going up 20mm on the bars, added 5mm spacer on the stem. I like it in climbing mode as well, easier to keep upper body weight on it.
flag Pigglet13
Posted: May 13, 2021 at 22:03 Quote
Firstly, at 6’1 it’s unlikely that the XL stumpy was too big, long in the seat tube yes but that’s really an irrelevant metric for determining bike size.

Your enduro will ‘probably’ be right at the low end of your ideal size band. It’s all about getting your weight balanced between the wheels and that varies from person to person based on physiology so be wary of getting advice online which says, go wider on your bars or lower at the front. Only you or someone who knows what they are doing and is watching you ride can tell you that.
Too low at the front and you will be nosediving, struggling to pop the front over obstacles on steep downhill sections and more likely to push the front wide on turns.
Too hight at the front and you will get wheel lift on steep climbs and be more likely to get front wheel washout due to it not having enough weight on it.

29ers have a bottom bracket which sits below the axles (unlike your 26er) which can make them feel less agile/more reluctant to initiate a turn. This is something that is easily overcome by learning to lean the bike over more and counter steering. The flip side to that is much more stability and cornering traction. There is a reason why everything is now on 29” wheels. Get used to it and your 26er will be a nice trip down memory lane but not what you want to ride fast anymore.
Spend a month on your new steed getting to grips with proper cornering technique (watch some global bike network vids) and dialing the suspension and cockpit set up and I’m sure you will prefer it unless it really is too small for you. Ideally the correct bike size should allow you to ride with around a 35t to 50mm stem. If you need to go to 70mm to get comfy then you are probably on a bike that’s a bit on the short side. I find when I ride a bike that is too small, I need to raise the bars quite a bit to counteract the dead sailor tendency as my weight is further over the front axle and my hands are closet to my hips making me more upright and top heavy so more inclined to go over the bars.

If your suspension is a lot softer on the enduro than the stumpy it will also feel less agile. Just coz it’s got more travel doesn’t mean it has to be softer. Try bracketing suspension settings ie, pick a relatively short but technical section of familiar trail, something with a bit of everything you like to ride in so rocks, jump, berms etc and try a really firm setting (say 10% sag and appropriate damping) a middle setting 20% Sag, and a soft setting at around 30 to 35% sag and see what it feels like. You will want to do multiple runs in each setting so allow a few hours to do it and take a notebook to write down findings.

It’s interesting reading your comments. When 29ers first came out, a lot of people seemed to echo them and I believe that the wider bars had a significant role in that. A lot of people were riding 26ers on still relatively narrow bars then jumped on a 29er with 780 or 800 mm bars it it felt massively different. I would say the vast majority of riders I know do not alter their bikes from stock and don’t experiment with cockpit set up so if a bike doesn’t feel right for them from the the first ride, they write it off and I think that put a lot of people of 29ers when they first came out.
I personally don’t like bars over 760mm or 770mm as they lock my shoulders and hamper really leaning the bike over. 10mm can make a noticeable difference. Also try experimenting with bar roll.
I prefer a 35mm stem but with the bars rolled forward. In theory it should put my hands in roughly the same position as a 50mm stem with bars at standard roll and some extra spacers but it feels quite different.
Saddle position and angle can also have a very noticeable impact on climbing feel, I have converted quite a lot of friends from having a flat to saddle to one slightly nose down, some have loved it, some have gone the other way. If your bike is on the small side then nose down may feel wrong.
Just remember, what works for one person may not work for another. Experimentation is key to finding your sweet spot!
flag Crankyhabits
Posted: Jun 1, 2021 at 13:51 Quote
Thank goodness I found this forum!! I thought I was the only one who dislikes the 29. I've had mine for nearly 15 years (after having gone thru two 26ers before that). Now that I've gone and found a 27.5 to replace the 29, I've found that the handlebars are so wide it's near comical.
So, just saying, I understand when you say it's like trying to learn all over again.
flag MendelMu
Posted: Aug 8, 2021 at 13:15 Quote
Give it a couple of rides. The way geometry has been developing it’s not weird the way you feeling but you will get settled.

Remember when going from a giant reign to a YT bike it felt like I was stretched out and it felt way to big. My new stumpy is even longer and I was thinking that if I was a better biker I’d probably prefer a size larger.

If you still feel this way after a couple of rides you could always try getting a 27,5 with short cs. The reach won’t get shorter though unless you want to be stuck with old bikes.
flag ToddM1
Posted: Aug 8, 2021 at 13:34 Quote
Pigglet13 wrote:
Firstly, at 6’1 it’s unlikely that the XL stumpy was too big, long in the seat tube yes but that’s really an irrelevant metric for determining bike size.

Your enduro will ‘probably’ be right at the low end of your ideal size band. It’s all about getting your weight balanced between the wheels and that varies from person to person based on physiology so be wary of getting advice online which says, go wider on your bars or lower at the front. Only you or someone who knows what they are doing and is watching you ride can tell you that.
Too low at the front and you will be nosediving, struggling to pop the front over obstacles on steep downhill sections and more likely to push the front wide on turns.
Too hight at the front and you will get wheel lift on steep climbs and be more likely to get front wheel washout due to it not having enough weight on it.

29ers have a bottom bracket which sits below the axles (unlike your 26er) which can make them feel less agile/more reluctant to initiate a turn. This is something that is easily overcome by learning to lean the bike over more and counter steering. The flip side to that is much more stability and cornering traction. There is a reason why everything is now on 29” wheels. Get used to it and your 26er will be a nice trip down memory lane but not what you want to ride fast anymore.
Spend a month on your new steed getting to grips with proper cornering technique (watch some global bike network vids) and dialing the suspension and cockpit set up and I’m sure you will prefer it unless it really is too small for you. Ideally the correct bike size should allow you to ride with around a 35t to 50mm stem. If you need to go to 70mm to get comfy then you are probably on a bike that’s a bit on the short side. I find when I ride a bike that is too small, I need to raise the bars quite a bit to counteract the dead sailor tendency as my weight is further over the front axle and my hands are closet to my hips making me more upright and top heavy so more inclined to go over the bars.

If your suspension is a lot softer on the enduro than the stumpy it will also feel less agile. Just coz it’s got more travel doesn’t mean it has to be softer. Try bracketing suspension settings ie, pick a relatively short but technical section of familiar trail, something with a bit of everything you like to ride in so rocks, jump, berms etc and try a really firm setting (say 10% sag and appropriate damping) a middle setting 20% Sag, and a soft setting at around 30 to 35% sag and see what it feels like. You will want to do multiple runs in each setting so allow a few hours to do it and take a notebook to write down findings.

It’s interesting reading your comments. When 29ers first came out, a lot of people seemed to echo them and I believe that the wider bars had a significant role in that. A lot of people were riding 26ers on still relatively narrow bars then jumped on a 29er with 780 or 800 mm bars it it felt massively different. I would say the vast majority of riders I know do not alter their bikes from stock and don’t experiment with cockpit set up so if a bike doesn’t feel right for them from the the first ride, they write it off and I think that put a lot of people of 29ers when they first came out.
I personally don’t like bars over 760mm or 770mm as they lock my shoulders and hamper really leaning the bike over. 10mm can make a noticeable difference. Also try experimenting with bar roll.
I prefer a 35mm stem but with the bars rolled forward. In theory it should put my hands in roughly the same position as a 50mm stem with bars at standard roll and some extra spacers but it feels quite different.
Saddle position and angle can also have a very noticeable impact on climbing feel, I have converted quite a lot of friends from having a flat to saddle to one slightly nose down, some have loved it, some have gone the other way. If your bike is on the small side then nose down may feel wrong.
Just remember, what works for one person may not work for another. Experimentation is key to finding your sweet spot!

Thanks for putting that all together! Extremely detailed and informative. Your advice on having the saddle nose-down is what I've discovered I prefer, for steep climbing.
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