Should I switch to clips?

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Should I switch to clips?
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flag Pigglet13
Posted: Jun 10, 2021 at 10:20 Quote
HaggeredShins wrote:

Losing control with flats is just that, losing control. Could be anything from shoes to form to suspension setup. Kind of an important point, clipless shouldn't be a bandaid for security!

This
I rode clips for 25 years primarily on hardtail for more XC biased riding but since switching to flats 5 years ago I won’t go back. With the correct shoe and peddle combo you can pretty much pull the peddle up anyway and it’s been proven that there isn’t as much efficiency gain from clips as you might think.
Since switching to flats I’ve had far less big offs due to feet flying off at critical moments as you can’t just jump up and pull the bike with you, you have to jump and hop properly and keep your heels low on descents.
Bailing off and unclipping quickly was never an issue, it becomes second nature but if your not careful so does lifting your heels when you shouldn’t.
flag kapusta7
O+
Posted: Jun 10, 2021 at 10:42 Quote
You are just going to have to try them and give it some time to get used to them to know.

I rode clipless exclusively for almost 20 years, and then started switching over to flats 2 years ago. Got to where I was all flats all the time. But then I tried clipless again about a month ago, and realized I still like it better. I will still keep flats in the rotation, though, as I think they made me a better rider.

FWIW, my preference has very little to do with efficiently.
flag Explodo
Posted: Jun 10, 2021 at 11:04 Quote
It depends on where/how you ride. I switched to clipless in the late 90s when I lived in Utah and rode hardtails with Marzocchi fronts all the time. The terrain was too rough for flats/cages/spds(at high speed), but ATACs fit the bill nicely. With everyone on cushy couches these days and so many trails being groomed so smooth, it depends on where/how you ride.
flag Poachninja
O+
Posted: Jun 10, 2021 at 11:57 Quote
HaggeredShins wrote:
Poachninja wrote:
I tried clips for a bit, didn’t like them much and switched back.

For those who are getting bucked off your flats in the fast tech, are you guys running low travel bikes in big terrain or something? I can’t say I ever experienced this unless I hit my pedal on something, dead sailor, or otherwise lose control and then it’s better I get bucked off.

Losing control with flats is just that, losing control. Could be anything from shoes to form to suspension setup. Kind of an important point, clipless shouldn't be a bandaid for security!

I was thinking that when writing. If you’re getting bucked off on flats, it’s you not the pedals. In fact, you probably shouldn’t switch to clips until you sort that out. To me, clips are for already really good riders who really want to eke out a bit more pedal efficiency, not for mediocre riders looking for a crutch that will only end up solidifying bad habits.
flag gmoss
Posted: Jun 10, 2021 at 12:05 Quote
just note that not riding flats does not equate to bad habits. It can, for some, but not all. I have never spent any time on flats, except as a kid.
flag a-prince
Posted: Jun 10, 2021 at 12:09 Quote
Poachninja wrote:
HaggeredShins wrote:
Poachninja wrote:
I tried clips for a bit, didn’t like them much and switched back.

For those who are getting bucked off your flats in the fast tech, are you guys running low travel bikes in big terrain or something? I can’t say I ever experienced this unless I hit my pedal on something, dead sailor, or otherwise lose control and then it’s better I get bucked off.

Losing control with flats is just that, losing control. Could be anything from shoes to form to suspension setup. Kind of an important point, clipless shouldn't be a bandaid for security!

I was thinking that when writing. If you’re getting bucked off on flats, it’s you not the pedals. In fact, you probably shouldn’t switch to clips until you sort that out. To me, clips are for already really good riders who really want to eke out a bit more pedal efficiency, not for mediocre riders looking for a crutch that will only end up solidifying bad habits.

Yup, that's exactly why 95%+ of DH World Cup Racers ride clips. Gotta have the best pedal efficiency for Schladming
flag Poachninja
O+
Posted: Jun 10, 2021 at 12:30 Quote
a-prince wrote:
Poachninja wrote:
HaggeredShins wrote:


Losing control with flats is just that, losing control. Could be anything from shoes to form to suspension setup. Kind of an important point, clipless shouldn't be a bandaid for security!

I was thinking that when writing. If you’re getting bucked off on flats, it’s you not the pedals. In fact, you probably shouldn’t switch to clips until you sort that out. To me, clips are for already really good riders who really want to eke out a bit more pedal efficiency, not for mediocre riders looking for a crutch that will only end up solidifying bad habits.

Yup, that's exactly why 95%+ of DH World Cup Racers ride clips. Gotta have the best pedal efficiency for Schladming

That’s fair but I would contend that they likely ride what they are most comfortable with and do want a pedalling edge for some of what they do, so they just stick to clips full time. Those other 5 pct aren’t getting bucked of their pedals and it includes some of the best riders with some of the fastest times.
flag HaggeredShins
Posted: Jun 10, 2021 at 12:44 Quote
Poachninja wrote:
a-prince wrote:
Poachninja wrote:


I was thinking that when writing. If you’re getting bucked off on flats, it’s you not the pedals. In fact, you probably shouldn’t switch to clips until you sort that out. To me, clips are for already really good riders who really want to eke out a bit more pedal efficiency, not for mediocre riders looking for a crutch that will only end up solidifying bad habits.

Yup, that's exactly why 95%+ of DH World Cup Racers ride clips. Gotta have the best pedal efficiency for Schladming

That’s fair but I would contend that they likely ride what they are most comfortable with and do want a pedalling edge for some of what they do, so they just stick to clips full time. Those other 5 pct aren’t getting bucked of their pedals and it includes some of the best riders with some of the fastest times.

Racers also run clipped because its repeatable and consistency (or eliminating inconsistency) is pretty important in racing
flag a-prince
Posted: Jun 10, 2021 at 13:02 Quote
Those are some pretty fancy words for "they are faster"
flag HaggeredShins
Posted: Jun 10, 2021 at 13:20 Quote
a-prince wrote:
Those are some pretty fancy words for "they are faster"

You're in a league of your own if those words were fancy. What a wc pro does to be fast has nothing to do with a discussion about amateurs being knocked around on rough trails.
flag maxxx
Posted: Jun 11, 2021 at 4:02 Quote
Poachninja wrote:
I tried clips for a bit, didn’t like them much and switched back.

For those who are getting bucked off your flats in the fast tech, are you guys running low travel bikes in big terrain or something? I can’t say I ever experienced this unless I hit my pedal on something, dead sailor, or otherwise lose control and then it’s better I get bucked off.

I'm on a 140mm Devinci Troy with CCDB Coil. I've found when the going gets really chunky and steep my feet tend to migrate around on the pedals. This is with Deity Deftrap Pedals and Ride Concepts flat pedal shoes. It helps if I press into the pedals, but that seems pretty hard on the rims and tires. I've been trying to dial in my rear suspension a little better, and though it's improved in other areas, I haven't found it helped much with my feet moving on the pedals.
flag JaxMustang50
Posted: Jun 11, 2021 at 19:12 Quote
Flat rider my whole life so can't compare the two. I've long since filed this subject under "If it ain't broke..."

Maybe it's just the long time experience combined with ever better equipment but I don't ever find myself getting bucked or rattled off my flats. And this is on hardtails to boot. As long as I do my part, I'm not coming off.

Current favorite pedal shoe combo are DMR Vaults and fiveten freerider pros.
flag Arierep
Posted: Jun 12, 2021 at 3:29 Quote
Was on clips for about 10 years, then 3 years ago switched to flats.
It was a long journey for me, wasn't an easy change, and went back to clips to experiment a couple of times.

I realised two things:
- My riding really progressed while I was on flats. Whenever I experimented with clips it either stagnated or even regressed.
- Every issue I had with flats turned out to be some technique deficiency. Everything that made me want to experiment with clips was in fact something that I was doing wrong and it was just me looking for a crutch.

People often bring WC DH riders into these discussions. I'd just say the following:
- those guys are 100% accomplished riders, they master virtually every single technique on the bike.
- they are in search of marginal gains. If clipless offers them (and mind that they are proficient enough to extract every single drop of potential) 1% quicker times, they'll adopt it. Are the trade-offs worthy for us mortals?
- they often ride flats offseason. We often only see them racing and get this impression that pro rider = clips.
- racing season is mostly restricted to summer months. I heard a pro somewhere a few months ago saying that if the season extended past summer we'd see way more riders on flats
flag Dkutassy
Posted: Jun 12, 2021 at 7:40 Quote
Clips help launching out of the gate for a downhill race or sprinting. Otherwise they aren't any more or less efficient. That's been debunked so many times now.

Clipless let's you be lazy with technique and still get away with it. Flats force you to have proper technique. That's literally the only other difference.

I do find riding clipped in makes chunky, slow climbs a little easier. If you get stopped in a hole you've got a better chance of being able to power out of it by pulling up. With flats occasionally I've pressed so hard on the pedal it just pushes my 160lbs out of the saddle rather than turning the rear tire. With clips you can pull with the other foot keeping you toward the saddle and adding a tiny bit of power to the pedal stroke. I'm sure with better technique or line choice I'd be able to hit the same lines and make it on flats. Again, clipless just lets me be lazy about it rather than needing solid technique.

The muscles used for pulling up on the back stroke are tiny. Even if you're pulling up REALLY hard that perceived effort isn't adding a whole lot to your net power output. Human legs are great for pushing down but they aren't built for pulling up much more than the weight of your foot.

 


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