Tire inserts vs rolling resistance

PB Forum :: All Mountain, Enduro & Cross-Country
Tire inserts vs rolling resistance
| Next Page
Author Message
Posted: Jul 20, 2021 at 20:10 Quote
Danzzz88 wrote:
This kind of thing happens when people are spending too much time giving a crap over 0.1% gains and talking about bikes all day instead of actually riding them.. I get the impression half the guys on here don't even actually like riding bikes, if they did they would be happy having a few grand bike that is better than the majority of bikes regular people own...they just like riding the flashiest most cushy bike they can afford on the odd occassion and spend the rest of the time talking about technical stuff even pros couldn't give a rats arse about the rest of the time. It is almost like them rich fkers that probably get driven around all day in their Rolls then have an FFX for the odd occassion they go to a racetrack..they aren't true petrol heads, they are just guys with too much money. Fact is if you are arguing whether one tyre rolls better than another and need scientific evidence to clarify things then clearly it must be making fk all difference. Whining about it, and talking about what is the best of the best all day on here seems like the main hobby for a lot of Pinkbike users, the part time hobby is actually riding their bikes. Fact is if you really enjoy riding bikes, you would enjoy riding a £500 hardtail, maybe not as much as a £10k Santa Cruz but still enough to not spend 24/7 on Pinkbike talking about 1% gains for recreational use.

I'm on board with this. You could leave a bigger poop in the toilet, sleep better the night before or eat better a few days before a ride and have better gains than you'd lose by running inserts or not. My fastest times on the bike are with heavy tires and inserts because I know I can beat on it that much harder haha

Posted: Jul 20, 2021 at 20:12 Quote
Danzzz88 wrote:
This kind of thing happens when people are spending too much time giving a crap over 0.1% gains and talking about bikes all day instead of actually riding them.. I get the impression half the guys on here don't even actually like riding bikes, if they did they would be happy having a few grand bike that is better than the majority of bikes regular people own...they just like riding the flashiest most cushy bike they can afford on the odd occassion and spend the rest of the time talking about technical stuff even pros couldn't give a rats arse about the rest of the time. It is almost like them rich fkers that probably get driven around all day in their Rolls then have an FFX for the odd occassion they go to a racetrack..they aren't true petrol heads, they are just guys with too much money. Fact is if you are arguing whether one tyre rolls better than another and need scientific evidence to clarify things then clearly it must be making fk all difference. Whining about it, and talking about what is the best of the best all day on here seems like the main hobby for a lot of Pinkbike users, the part time hobby is actually riding their bikes. Fact is if you really enjoy riding bikes, you would enjoy riding a £500 hardtail, maybe not as much as a £10k Santa Cruz but still enough to not spend 24/7 on Pinkbike talking about 1% gains for recreational use.

I'm not sure if you are agreeing with me, disagreeing with me or saying I don't actually ride my bike...

My example I gave stems from me going from a DHF front and rear to an Assagai front and rear and didn't find it to be a harder tire to climb 1000's of meters of vert in a single ride with. Many people told me the Assagai was slower rolling tire, I didn't really agree. RMR proved my point. I found that interesting, I'm sorry if that's a problem for you.

The OP asked about the rolling resistance created by varying tire inserts, RMR would likely have some answers with actual testing done to have some validity. You can have alot of placebo effects from what you perceive to be real.

If you don't think the pros are doing their own research into details like rolling resistance to get that extra 0.1% you are gravely mistaken.

If you don't care, great good for you, but the person who made this thread seems to care.

Posted: Jul 20, 2021 at 21:21 Quote
gnarnaimo wrote:
Danzzz88 wrote:
This kind of thing happens when people are spending too much time giving a crap over 0.1% gains and talking about bikes all day instead of actually riding them.. I get the impression half the guys on here don't even actually like riding bikes, if they did they would be happy having a few grand bike that is better than the majority of bikes regular people own...they just like riding the flashiest most cushy bike they can afford on the odd occassion and spend the rest of the time talking about technical stuff even pros couldn't give a rats arse about the rest of the time. It is almost like them rich fkers that probably get driven around all day in their Rolls then have an FFX for the odd occassion they go to a racetrack..they aren't true petrol heads, they are just guys with too much money. Fact is if you are arguing whether one tyre rolls better than another and need scientific evidence to clarify things then clearly it must be making fk all difference. Whining about it, and talking about what is the best of the best all day on here seems like the main hobby for a lot of Pinkbike users, the part time hobby is actually riding their bikes. Fact is if you really enjoy riding bikes, you would enjoy riding a £500 hardtail, maybe not as much as a £10k Santa Cruz but still enough to not spend 24/7 on Pinkbike talking about 1% gains for recreational use.

I'm not sure if you are agreeing with me, disagreeing with me or saying I don't actually ride my bike...

My example I gave stems from me going from a DHF front and rear to an Assagai front and rear and didn't find it to be a harder tire to climb 1000's of meters of vert in a single ride with. Many people told me the Assagai was slower rolling tire, I didn't really agree. RMR proved my point. I found that interesting, I'm sorry if that's a problem for you.

The OP asked about the rolling resistance created by varying tire inserts, RMR would likely have some answers with actual testing done to have some validity. You can have alot of placebo effects from what you perceive to be real.

If you don't think the pros are doing their own research into details like rolling resistance to get that extra 0.1% you are gravely mistaken.

If you don't care, great good for you, but the person who made this thread seems to care.

I agree, disagree and agree with you Gnar.

I think these boards are great and I am quite aware of how much you ride and like bikes. I value your impression of the asegai as much or more than a "test" done by some "smart guy." The tests on rolling resistance for road tires once showed that smaller harder tires were the fastest. This still holds true (I understand) on indoor tracks. In real life, with rough surfaces, fatter lower pressure tires did better. Tests are great but so is real world experience. This is why I find it perplexing to want RMR to answer all questions as it seems some would like. It's a bike. Buy an Asegai and try it out. There are lots of reasons a tire may be faster or slower. Maybe the Asegai is faster on Nanaimo terrain but slower in Florida - totally possible.

This guy is intrigued by inserts and wants some advice. Personally, I think he should go for a set and give it a try. He can collect some opinions here and hopefully get steered towards the best product for him. RMR would certainly have some good points but I wouldn't tell this fellow to buy whatever RMR says is the best. Its one opinion. A decent one, but again, RMR has biases just like everyone else.

Posted: Jul 20, 2021 at 22:12 Quote
rahrider wrote:
I agree, disagree and agree with you Gnar.

I think these boards are great and I am quite aware of how much you ride and like bikes. I value your impression of the asegai as much or more than a "test" done by some "smart guy." The tests on rolling resistance for road tires once showed that smaller harder tires were the fastest. This still holds true (I understand) on indoor tracks. In real life, with rough surfaces, fatter lower pressure tires did better. Tests are great but so is real world experience. This is why I find it perplexing to want RMR to answer all questions as it seems some would like. It's a bike. Buy an Asegai and try it out. There are lots of reasons a tire may be faster or slower. Maybe the Asegai is faster on Nanaimo terrain but slower in Florida - totally possible.

This guy is intrigued by inserts and wants some advice. Personally, I think he should go for a set and give it a try. He can collect some opinions here and hopefully get steered towards the best product for him. RMR would certainly have some good points but I wouldn't tell this fellow to buy whatever RMR says is the best. Its one opinion. A decent one, but again, RMR has biases just like everyone else.

Fair enough Reed. I will agree with just about everything you say there. The tests on the Assagai were done in a controlled environment on a test rig, but were interesting nonetheless and I definitely took something from it.

However if you re-read the OP's post:

ICE-Prague wrote:
Hey,
noticed some hate speech on tyre inserts because of increased rolling resistance and drag. What tire inserts are better for it and why? TIA!

His question just happens to be the sort of specific question that RMR would surely have an interesting bit of information to answer with. Which is why when I read the question I thought "I miss you RMR!"

I've had several private conversations with the guy..he is an interesting guy to chat with, and happens to have alot of values that parallel mine. So maybe I miss seeing the guy around for more reasons than answering questions with science backed info.

I too was very intrigued with inserts, which is why I bought a set of cushcore after reading about them and hearing from some friends about how they perform. 4 years on cushcore now and my personal opinion is that whether or not they increase rolling resistance they have almost completely eliminated my destruction of wheels and tires and I have performed better in races and I have been getting consistently faster on my home tracks as well. Maybe that's not the insert doing all the work, but I've only been riding harder and have had less mechanicals in the process. I remember feeling they definitely improve the ride over rough terrain as well..it's been so long having them in my enduro class bike I don't remember what it feels like to not have them..my trail bike feels alot less composed over fast, rough, chatter..but it has 20mm less travel and lighter casing tires, so it's not really comparing apples to apples.

I also ride on DD casing with cushcore front and rear so clearly rolling resistance isn't exactly what I'm going for. That being said, I was pretty certain the Assagai didn't feel slower than the DHR on the climbs, and RMR just happened to have some science to back up my thoughts.

Big brands pay RMR to do their engineering research for them, he is a very valuable resource to the biking community. It's a shame he is not here to offer advice and information to enthusiast's anymore.

Posted: Jul 20, 2021 at 23:38 Quote
I´m father of two (small, time-demanding) kids, not much time for riding left, money plays it´s role, will not pay for every $h*T I can see on eshops, every small gain counts Wink
of coure I´ve already tried a pile of tires, but not much inserts, still not much experienced and satisfied. That´s why..


Danzzz88 wrote:
This kind of thing happens when people are spending too much time giving a crap over 0.1% gains and talking about bikes all day instead of actually riding them.. I get the impression half the guys on here don't even actually like riding bikes, if they did they would be happy having a few grand bike that is better than the majority of bikes regular people own...they just like riding the flashiest most cushy bike they can afford on the odd occassion and spend the rest of the time talking about technical stuff even pros couldn't give a rats arse about the rest of the time. It is almost like them rich fkers that probably get driven around all day in their Rolls then have an FFX for the odd occassion they go to a racetrack..they aren't true petrol heads, they are just guys with too much money. Fact is if you are arguing whether one tyre rolls better than another and need scientific evidence to clarify things then clearly it must be making fk all difference. Whining about it, and talking about what is the best of the best all day on here seems like the main hobby for a lot of Pinkbike users, the part time hobby is actually riding their bikes. Fact is if you really enjoy riding bikes, you would enjoy riding a £500 hardtail, maybe not as much as a £10k Santa Cruz but still enough to not spend 24/7 on Pinkbike talking about 1% gains for recreational use.

Posted: Jul 21, 2021 at 9:08 Quote
I’m a father of two young, time consuming kids as well. It’s incredibly rocky and rough at my local trails. After getting flats constantly I made the switch to DH casings and Cush core.

The weight increase was noticeable at first.
Although now my times are actually faster because I’m more confident on my bike and spend more time pedaling. Flats are a non issue.

Moral of the story: pedal more worry less

Weight and rolling resistance aren’t as valuable as you time.

Posted: Jul 21, 2021 at 12:56 Quote
make sense Smile

CheeseburgerBandit wrote:
I’m a father of two young, time consuming kids as well. It’s incredibly rocky and rough at my local trails. After getting flats constantly I made the switch to DH casings and Cush core.

The weight increase was noticeable at first.
Although now my times are actually faster because I’m more confident on my bike and spend more time pedaling. Flats are a non issue.

Moral of the story: pedal more worry less

Weight and rolling resistance aren’t as valuable as you time.

Posted: Jul 21, 2021 at 23:13 Quote
gnarnaimo wrote:
rahrider wrote:
Rmr was great. But do you really need an evidence based solution?

Need? No. Want? Well me, yes.

Alot of people believe the Assagai is a slower rolling tire than the minion dhf and dhr, however he showed evidence that this is not the case.

Its amazing what one can perceive when it's what they believe or what they have been told.

Can you link to that thread?
I run an assguy on the front but it’s a soft DH casing and 1600g. In my ignorance I hadn’t realised you could now get it in a lighter casing. I still maintain that running the sticky DH version is not a sprightly tire but that’s probably as much due it’s rotational mass on climbs as much as rolling resistance. Either way it takes a bit of pushing uphill!
Grip is addictive though and I would be interested to try a lighter casing to see if the grip remained similar but climbing performance and rolling resistance improved.

Posted: Jul 22, 2021 at 7:00 Quote
“Releasing the Assegai with only a DH carcass made sense, given the tire was designed by the winningest downhill racer of all time. Now you can get EXO, EXO+ and Double Down versions. Maxx Grip only is available in the DH and DD carcasses while the EXO and EXO+ options are available in Maxx Terra or Dual compound. I’d like to see a Maxx Grip version in the EXO+ casing though, for those who don’t need a burly casing like the DD up front but still want maximum traction. A Double Down in the longer wearing Maxx Terra would be good for rear tire use where the EXO+ casing isn't enough.”

| Next Page

 
Copyright © 2000 - 2021. Pinkbike.com. All rights reserved.
dv42 0.005617
Mobile Version of Website