I am in the market for a new Carbon Downhill frame, specifically a 27.5. I was willing to spend about $3k on just the frame, however I have observed that many frames have increased in prices and are also made in China. I am a bit put off about this because as little as 8 years ago some of these Companies were building there Carbon frames in the USA and asking less back then considering the value of our dollar.
Can someone chime in on if it is wise for me to buy a Downhill frame like a V10 that is obviously has made in China for $4000?
Umm...who was building carbon frames in the USA 8 years ago? Carbon has always primarily been produced overseas and if anything domestic manufacturing has been on the rise in the recent past with brands like Guerilla Gravity and We Are One Composites. Doesn't sound like you have a very good memory. Also in 2015 a V10 frame cost $3599. It now costs $3999. If pricing kept pace with inflation it would be $4,138 so you're actually getting more for your money these days. Nothing you said in this post makes sense
I am in the market for a new Carbon Downhill frame, specifically a 27.5. I was willing to spend about $3k on just the frame, however I have observed that many frames have increased in prices and are also made in China. I am a bit put off about this because as little as 8 years ago some of these Companies were building there Carbon frames in the USA and asking less back then considering the value of our dollar.
Can someone chime in on if it is wise for me to buy a Downhill frame like a V10 that is obviously has made in China for $4000?
the benefit of carbon was never weight or stiffness, its that they could pay someone overseas a bowl of rice a day to stuff cloth into a mold. NO skilled welders required.
Umm...who was building carbon frames in the USA 8 years ago? Carbon has always primarily been produced overseas and if anything domestic manufacturing has been on the rise in the recent past with brands like Guerilla Gravity and We Are One Composites. Doesn't sound like you have a very good memory. Also in 2015 a V10 frame cost $3599. It now costs $3999. If pricing kept pace with inflation it would be $4,138 so you're actually getting more for your money these days. Nothing you said in this post makes sense
A 2013-14 V10 was $3500 and was made in the USA by Santa Cruz and ENVE.
I don't think Santa Cruz ever built carbon frames in the USA. Many US bike companies assemble the bikes in the US, but the frames are created overseas as noted above. "Where are Santa Cruz bikes made? The frames Santa Cruz uses for their bikes are made in China and Taiwan. However, all bikes are assembled in Santa Cruz, California, USA and shipped out from the same location."
Umm...who was building carbon frames in the USA 8 years ago? Carbon has always primarily been produced overseas and if anything domestic manufacturing has been on the rise in the recent past with brands like Guerilla Gravity and We Are One Composites. Doesn't sound like you have a very good memory. Also in 2015 a V10 frame cost $3599. It now costs $3999. If pricing kept pace with inflation it would be $4,138 so you're actually getting more for your money these days. Nothing you said in this post makes sense
A 2013-14 V10 was $3500 and was made in the USA by Santa Cruz and ENVE.
had those frames been made by enve they would have never passed the famous bang against the concrete test, they would have seperated into two pieces with the first swing.
Umm...who was building carbon frames in the USA 8 years ago? Carbon has always primarily been produced overseas and if anything domestic manufacturing has been on the rise in the recent past with brands like Guerilla Gravity and We Are One Composites. Doesn't sound like you have a very good memory. Also in 2015 a V10 frame cost $3599. It now costs $3999. If pricing kept pace with inflation it would be $4,138 so you're actually getting more for your money these days. Nothing you said in this post makes sense
A 2013-14 V10 was $3500 and was made in the USA by Santa Cruz and ENVE.
You’re wrong. They were made in China. The first carbon ones were “co-developed” by ENVE. I’m guessing you read that and assumed ENVE made them?
Umm...who was building carbon frames in the USA 8 years ago? Carbon has always primarily been produced overseas and if anything domestic manufacturing has been on the rise in the recent past with brands like Guerilla Gravity and We Are One Composites. Doesn't sound like you have a very good memory. Also in 2015 a V10 frame cost $3599. It now costs $3999. If pricing kept pace with inflation it would be $4,138 so you're actually getting more for your money these days. Nothing you said in this post makes sense
A 2013-14 V10 was $3500 and was made in the USA by Santa Cruz and ENVE.
You’re wrong. They were made in China. The first carbon ones were “co-developed” by ENVE. I’m guessing you read that and assumed ENVE made them?
Do not run up on the messenger, heard it straight from 2 employees at Santa Cruz.
A 2013-14 V10 was $3500 and was made in the USA by Santa Cruz and ENVE.
You’re wrong. They were made in China. The first carbon ones were “co-developed” by ENVE. I’m guessing you read that and assumed ENVE made them?
Do not run up on the messenger, heard it straight from 2 employees at Santa Cruz.
Well they're wrong, they've never made a production carbon frame in the US. Also worth noting that your other claim of increased prices is incorrect as well, as I stated earlier. If you're unfamiliar with how inflation works reading up on that will help you understand why the bike is priced higher than it was 9 years ago.
If you're unfamiliar with how inflation works reading up on that will help you understand why the bike is priced higher than it was 9 years ago.
This is way off track, but I'd actually enjoy a lesson on inflation and product prices. Please explain why my hot, new 75 inch OLED TV cost me less today than a smaller and even less feature-rich TV only a few years ago?
TV prices go down and bike prices go up.
To me it seems like bikes and TVs are on opposite playing fields somehow. So I'm missing a big picture here (but not in my living room )
This is way off track, but I'd actually enjoy a lesson on inflation and product prices. Please explain why my hot, new 75 inch OLED TV cost me less today than a smaller and even less feature-rich TV only a few years ago?
TV prices go down and bike prices go up.
To me it seems like bikes and TVs are on opposite playing fields somehow. So I'm missing a big picture here (but not in my living room )
Not that I'm a huge econ expert, but... How many TVs are bought every year, vs how many mid to high end MTBs? And TV assembly can mostly be automated, whereas bikes still need a lot of human touch. Also, capitalism isn't about a fair price for the good, it's what the market will bear. TVs cost what they do at each level because that's the max that we're willing to pay for the features. Same with bikes. ("others will be impressed when they see how expensive my thingy is" is absolutely a feature that some are willing to pay for.)
For the boutique bike brands, "what the market will bear" may be barely enough to keep the lights on the kids fed, even when the price seems astronomical to us as the consumer, because they don't have access to the manufacturing capacity that some of the bigger players have. Part of the reason why I'm curious what's going to happen with Trickstuff now that they have access to DT's capabilities.
This is way off track, but I'd actually enjoy a lesson on inflation and product prices. Please explain why my hot, new 75 inch OLED TV cost me less today than a smaller and even less feature-rich TV only a few years ago?
TV prices go down and bike prices go up.
To me it seems like bikes and TVs are on opposite playing fields somehow. So I'm missing a big picture here (but not in my living room )
Not that I'm a huge econ expert, but... How many TVs are bought every year, vs how many mid to high end MTBs? And TV assembly can mostly be automated, whereas bikes still need a lot of human touch. Also, capitalism isn't about a fair price for the good, it's what the market will bear. TVs cost what they do at each level because that's the max that we're willing to pay for the features. Same with bikes. ("others will be impressed when they see how expensive my thingy is" is absolutely a feature that some are willing to pay for.)
For the boutique bike brands, "what the market will bear" may be barely enough to keep the lights on the kids fed, even when the price seems astronomical to us as the consumer, because they don't have access to the manufacturing capacity that some of the bigger players have. Part of the reason why I'm curious what's going to happen with Trickstuff now that they have access to DT's capabilities.
Good points to consider: assembly and market size. But then I think about cars - why are car prices always increasing too? Cars and TVs are both assembled by robots and each have a huge market, but car prices always rise. I understand that a car is more complicated than a TV and I'd expect to pay more for a car than a TV, but certainly the car makers have figured out the most efficient way to build them so what gives? I'm way off topic. Sorry for the rant. I'll exit now.
Good points to consider: assembly and market size. But then I think about cars - why are car prices always increasing too? Cars and TVs are both assembled by robots and each have a huge market, but car prices always rise. I understand that a car is more complicated than a TV and I'd expect to pay more for a car than a TV, but certainly the car makers have figured out the most efficient way to build them so what gives? I'm way off topic. Sorry for the rant. I'll exit now.
I guess if you look at tv's as different types and not just tv's like you would cars it's somewhat similar. Plasma tv's came out, super expensive, dropped in price as they got less exciting, LED's came out, same again, then same again with whatever that newest one is. Electric cars came out such as the bmw i8 and tesla roadster, stupid money, then over time cheaper models came out, hydrogen cars came out for stupid money, latest model is much cheaper and they will no doubt keep going down as it gains traction.