Reach? Should DH bike reach be shorter than my enduro? I’m confused

Author	Message

Willcarpenter8

Posted: Feb 15, 2022 at 7:44

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I have an enduro bike with a reach of 487 (spec status) I’m a big fan, and I’m currently looking for a new dh rig been looking at a nukeproof dissent with a reach of 460 I was looking for a bike with similar reach to my enduro bike but can’t find one longer than 465, even the new specilzed demo has a way shorter reach than my enduro bike, are downhill bikes meant to have a shorter reach? If so how much?

BenLow2019

Posted: Feb 15, 2022 at 7:51	Quote
Reach measurement is less of a thing on DH bikes because you'll be standing on the pedals almost always. Sitting on a DH bike is rare.

Willcarpenter8

Posted: Feb 15, 2022 at 7:51	Quote
Thanks Ben, I’m just wondering if it’s meant to be shorter than an enduro rig?

Ploutre

Posted: Feb 15, 2022 at 8:08

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Not necessrily, if anything I'd want it the same length. Shorter could be fine but I felt my 470mm reach DH bike was way too small compared to my 485 enduro. Now I've switched to a 495 DH bike, and I think it might just be a tad too long, got to find a shorter stem now...

It's often easier to "shorten" a bike than lenghten it, so I suppose you'd have to look at other brands ?

When I was looking at a DH bike, I wanted 29" wheels and between 480 and 490 of reach. Ended up with the Trek in R3 at 495, and will work to shorten it a bit now. There was Commencal, Mondraker, YT, Santa Cruz, ... that had bikes in that size, but didn't go for them for other reasons.

Willcarpenter8

Posted: Feb 15, 2022 at 8:17	Quote
Thanks for your reply! Really helpful

BenLow2019

Posted: Feb 15, 2022 at 8:19

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Willcarpenter8 wrote:

Thanks Ben, I’m just wondering if it’s meant to be shorter than an enduro rig?

Yes.
Just go look through various manufacturers websites. A DH bike will have a shorter reach than the same size Enduro bike by the same maker.
Example: YT Tues (DH bike) size Large reach measurement: 452mm; YT Capra (enduro bike) size Large reach measurement: 467mm.

This is normal.

englertracing

Posted: Feb 19, 2022 at 7:00

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For sure supposed to be shorter

With the 1- 2 slacker head angle the wheelbase will be quite a bit longer.
When the reach is the same the front center gets humongous with that slacker angle.
Think about bike morphing from steep to slack, if you rotate the head angle on the center of the head tube the top of rhe head tube moves back a little bit and this is sort of why you see 55mm stems on dh bikes.

The other thing is that with dh bikes being ridden on steeper trails you ride back a bit more which on a super long reach stretched you out more.

The enduro is ridden on a variety of trails and can be ridden more forward

I think 10-15mm shorter is appropriate.
You still end up with a substantially longer front center.

There's also some preference involved.
Are you just along for the ride? Or do you want full controll and like to take every corner to the edge of two wheel drifts?

EarIysport

Posted: Mar 19, 2022 at 5:40

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BenLow2019 wrote:

Reach measurement is less of a thing on DH bikes because you'll be standing on the pedals almost always. Sitting on a DH bike is rare.

Wrong. Reach has nothing to do with the seat position.

WordBikes

Posted: Mar 21, 2022 at 18:25	Quote
I usually ride a 480-485 reach on a trail/enduro bike and my V10 is 460 and fits like a glove. You can't go by the reach.

TheSlayer99

Posted: Mar 21, 2022 at 19:32

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I honestly don’t understand a reason why dh bikes are shorter than enduro bikes. They both are built to go downhill as fast as possible, except enduro bikes make the compromise to go back uphill. If anything dh bikes should be longer than enduro bikes because World Cup dh is moving towards faster, wide open tracks whereas enduro is staying consistent with slower speed tracks where a shorter bike is better.

boozed

Posted: Mar 21, 2022 at 19:50

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BenLow2019 wrote:

Reach measurement is less of a thing on DH bikes because you'll be standing on the pedals almost always. Sitting on a DH bike is rare.

You might be thinking of effective top tube length. Reach is the horizontal distance between the BB axis and the steering axis at the top of the head tube. Add the stem and handlebar and you have the bike's length while you're standing.

ScaryGuiTarS

Posted: Mar 22, 2022 at 0:59

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TheSlayer99 wrote:

I'm a bit out of my league here when it comes to DH bikes, as much as I love them, but I "thought" it also has something to do with the stability.

When you have a real slack HT angle, and you make the reach long, even with wide bars you start to lose the quick reaction-time response needed in DH riding. Am I off the mark here? So you don't want the center of your HT to be TOO far from your feet on the pedals (BB), assuming the bike would be more challenging to control if your arms are more stretched out from your center of gravity--or something like that?

I like Looong reach and Looong top tube, but I've often imagined if I were to ride a fully equipped DH frame that I'd have a harder time directing the DH bike through the rough if I had that long reach I have on my Stumpy or one of my hardtails.

just a thought...

Interesting topic though.

~JSV

Danzzz88

Posted: Mar 22, 2022 at 2:15

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There is no rocket science here...as has already been saidDH bikes have shorter reaches than their equivalent Enduro bikes...this is because they are generally used on steeper downhill trails and don't need to be pedalled uphill. Enduro bikes have long reaches as a way to gain stability whilst still having enough weight on the front end during climbs etc...your body weight is pulled towards the bars to weight the front but the overall length gives the bike stability. On DH bikes you ride more upright and don't need as aggressive a forward weight shift as they are designed to be used on much steeper trails...in combination with the slacker head angle in most cases the wheelbase is long enough, introducing more reach could risk making the bike too long (yes I know some Enduro bikes have 63.5 or 62.5 head angles but most don't) also the static and dynamic geometry between DH and Enduro bikes is very different too...DH bikes run a lot more rear sag than Enduro bikes not only as a percentage but overall due to the longer travel...the bb drop when the riders weight is on the bike is much greater than an enduro and you feel much more in the bike.

TheSlayer99

Posted: Mar 22, 2022 at 7:47

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Danzzz88 wrote:

Curtis Keene has said in interviews that the EWS circuit has tracks that are as hard to ride or harder than the World Cup circuit. Jack Moir has said in interviews too that he’d prefer a bigger dh bike than enduro bike. A lot of the top guys on the World Cup circuit ride bigger bikes than guys on the EWS circuit who are about the same height. So a lot of what you’re saying that makes sense on paper doesn’t hold up to the real world of racing.

notsosikmik

Outside+

Posted: Mar 24, 2022 at 23:06

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Danzzz88 wrote:

DH bikes run a lot more rear sag than Enduro bikes not only as a percentage but overall due to the longer travel...the bb drop when the riders weight is on the bike is much greater than an enduro and you feel much more in the bike.

This may be the case for many bikes but quite a few notable ones like the Supreme and V10 have recommended sag rates of sub 25%. Commencal says between 17% (firm) and 23%(soft)