gun control (moved from stolen bike)

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gun control (moved from stolen bike)
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flag ninjatarian
Posted: Jun 7, 2008 at 12:48 Quote
ok the topic is moved. i don't think if he was carrying a gun it would have particularly helped, although it could have evened up the odds. what i was really implying is if more people carry guns criminals would think twice if the odds were better the citizen had one too, so even if you don't own a gun you still benefit
flag sherbet
Posted: Jun 7, 2008 at 12:51 Quote
Thank you.

I firmly believe that gun control needs to be hardened. Giving any civilian a gun, as far as I'm concerned, is a bad idea. We have police for a reason, and we have government for a reason, they watch over us. Yes, there's blind spots, but legalizing guns would just make it easier for criminals to get their hands onto a lethal weapon. I'd rather have very few people own guns, even if most of them are criminals, than have almost everyone carry a gun, with all criminals owning one.
flag ninjatarian
Posted: Jun 7, 2008 at 12:57 Quote
i see what your saying and in an ideal situation you could create gun laws hat would keep guns away from criminals. the problem is its not an ideal world and despite 40,000 gun laws in the u.s. none of them have had an real success at keeping guns away from anyone other than honest citizens. iv seen how criminals get guns first hand, no gun law is going to keep them from doing it. since thats the case i think every clean record legal citizen should have the right to protect themselves. people call cops because they have guns but sadly its not convenient to have to call someone with a gun for protection. by the time you can do that (if at all) its often too late
flag sherbet
Posted: Jun 7, 2008 at 13:00 Quote
See, gun laws DO keep criminals from gaining firearms. Look at Canada and Britain. Seriously, take a look at how many gun crimes are committed in each country every year. Those countries with laxer laws have MANY more gun crimes.
flag ninjatarian
Posted: Jun 7, 2008 at 13:05 Quote
i dont necessarily think we need more gun laws though. what needs to be done in the U.S. is have the weaker gun laws rooted out and the laws that make sense strengthened with much harsher penalties. a gun is just a tool, its up to the user what is done with it. theres not reason you shouldn't be allowed to own one. even most police officers, the people you would think hate citizens having guns the most believe citizens should own guns
flag sherbet
Posted: Jun 7, 2008 at 13:12 Quote
bigquotesa gun is just a tool, its up to the user what is done with it.

There's the problem. Yes, a gun's a tool, with basically one purpose. To kill. It can be used for other objectives, such as to intimidate, but when it comes down to it, the gun is only a weapon.

I don't purpose more guns laws, only one gun law. Civilians may not carry firearms. Period.

The original law in the states that allows civilians to carry firearms was during the British revolution. It was for militia men to be allowed to own a firearm, and get out to fight at a moments notice. This is no longer required, so if you every hear anyone say it's a right to bare arms, it's not.
flag ninjatarian
Posted: Jun 7, 2008 at 13:19 Quote
thats not why that amendment was put into place. it was put there because our forefathers understood a possible future need to revolt again. they understood that a gun equals power and if citizens don't have guns they don't have power. the government can then feel free to do as it pleased. it was even said by the creaters of the constitution that a revolt by citizens is needed to keep government in check and to remind them who truly gives them the power. it cant affectively be argued that the bill of rights was written with only the immediate future in mind (the revolutionary war). it was purposely written to stand the test of time and they obviously thought it important enough to include guns as one of the ten rights that a citizen should always have
flag ninjatarian
Posted: Jun 7, 2008 at 13:21 Quote
the reason for Brittan's such strict gun laws is because they saw what power they gave, the British government isn't about to let that happen again
flag sherbet
Posted: Jun 7, 2008 at 13:35 Quote
bigquotesthats not why that amendment was put into place

On that, we can butt heads.

bigquotesthe reason for Brittan's such strict gun laws is because they saw what power they gave, the British government isn't about to let that happen again

And that, I agree with. But think, guns are not needed for a revolution. The French mess around with their government daily without firearms, and Mohandas Ghandi 100% proved that if you're truly dedicated, you can force revolution without fighting.

bigquotescitizens don't have guns they don't have power.

Very very wrong. I understand what you mean, but that's a superficial power. True power comes from population. Have it behind you, and no guns can stop you.
flag ninjatarian
Posted: Jun 7, 2008 at 13:48 Quote
well even if you outlaw guns from citizens i can guaranty criminals will still get them. its not all that hard. i know people who have made guns themselves in machine shops and gave them to people. some guns are just illegally imported and make there way into criminals hands and others would just hold onto there guns and use them as valuable currency on a black market. i think all you'd really be doing is forcing legitimate guns trade to head underground
flag sherbet
Posted: Jun 7, 2008 at 13:50 Quote
bigquotesi can guaranty criminals will still get them

Yes, but a LOT less criminals with be able to obtain firearms. Like, not a few less, not hundreds less, but tens of thousands less.

That's a rather significant figure. Imagine 100 000 less criminals with firearms. I don't think that would hurt.
flag
Posted: Jun 7, 2008 at 13:50 Quote
Pro gun, everyones gonna have their own opionion.
flag sherbet
Posted: Jun 7, 2008 at 13:51 Quote
harlieandhis250 wrote:
Pro gun, everyones gonna have their own opionion.

Not really looking for opinions, but facts and statements that hold opinions up. Back up what you say, and lets keep this thread going good.

Also, going out for a ride. I'd like a good few points to debate when I get back. Happy hunting.
flag gibson19
Posted: Jun 7, 2008 at 13:52 Quote
I think it is crucial to have "civilians" carrying guns... by civilians I don't mean your average 21 year old who wants to impress his friends with his gun... I'm talking about people who have passed rigorous tests and will use the gun for the right reasons.


Just look at school shootings... What if one of those teachers was allowed to carry a gun... Lives could have been saved... While its true that guns kill more people than they protect... If we crack down on the people who shouldn't be getting guns... and for that matter people who are importing guns illegally as that is how most guns come into the hands of criminals
flag ninjatarian
Posted: Jun 7, 2008 at 13:56 Quote
when gunmen choose locations to shoot up they choose "gun free zones" (a joke and whole nother topic all in itself) simply because its like shooting fish in a barrel for them. maybe a concealed handgun isn't going to stop everything, but it sure changes the odds by a lot
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