BoXXer 2010

PB Forum :: Downhill
BoXXer 2010
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flag slidways
Posted: Jun 23, 2013 at 4:12 Quote
TheGr33k- Yeah i feel the spring rate is probably correct, given the x-soft is recommended for riders under 140lbs (63kg), I think at 60kg and riding at a decent level the soft is a good move, but I will give it a another test once the shim stack is changed. Im not going to touch the oil weights yet, The beginning of the fork feels good when the LSC is not so high but it blows through so The oil velocity should be fine its just the support throughout the fork that is having the issue.
Oil is probably the last thing I will look at, as i understand the velocity has virtually no effect on the HSC its mostly a LSC effect. So I will look at that if I find the LSC is diving too much once the shim is done.

bikerboywill wrote:
Get an avalanche cartridge for it. And the rest will happen Wink

I did look into this and its a good idea but about $550 all up its a lot cheaper to re shim and get it working. I also would like to understand forks more and its a good opportunity to learn.
flag mwilliams
Posted: Jun 23, 2013 at 7:45 Quote
Can you not just use the front brake less? Ha
flag mwilliams
Posted: Jun 23, 2013 at 7:49 Quote
slidways wrote:
ThEGr33k wrote:
slidways wrote:


Yeah I have spoken to UDI (not sure if the pinkbike community is familiar with him) his a well known suspension guru on the Australia forums. The issue I am having is for the fork to not dive so much I am needing to up the LSC a lot which has also taken away the forks sensitivity and small bump, but backing it off the fork has no support. The HSC is similar issue because the HSC essentially increases the theshold in when the oil is pushed through it doesnt actually stiffen up the support so my higher HSC setting has resulted in having a harsh intial compliance than once its open it blows through its travel, essentially I need to stiffen up the stack to increase support and then back off the adjusters,

This should give me softer supple initial compliance but provide support so its not blowing through its travel.

Before someone asks I am about 132lbs and already on a soft yellow (a rate higher) than recommended silver, sag is only 15% on flat but feels good on trail. I might revert back to the silver once the stack is doubled.

How do you mean dive? Brake dive? What are you doing when it uses all the travel?

The problem with all but the most expensive suspension is it doesn't have position sensitivity. It sounds to me like you want a free first couple of inch then a well controlled end of travel.

With the suspension you have you have to choose a sensitive fork with dive or the other way around.

Also remember that high speed is low+high speed setting together, so settings have to be a balance between them. Making one hard and one soft will get you a medium dampened high speed.

This means you probably do have to play with the high speed shim stack to gain extra dampening there if you are shooting through travel.

Oh and spring rate really needs to be right 15% sag is way low, 25-30% is right!

Anyone know where you can get shims for Boxxers from?

Tried the x-soft, I got 25% sag but on the trail it was way too soft, couldn't get it to work at all, tired a bunch if tuning but was zero support. The yellow is definitely what I need. I am on the very upper limit of the x-soft too so yellow seems ideal. Rather too stiff than too soft.

Once I do the shims I might test the lighter spring again but I am very sure the yellow is the one I need.

Dive brake dive and under wallowing LSC holes.

I'm also after somewhere to get shims, but I want accurate dimensions. Anyone know would be great.

Accurate dimensions? Of the shims? All you need to tell them when ordering is ID, OD and thickness.
flag slidways
Posted: Jun 23, 2013 at 9:54 Quote
Yeah I know its pretty simple, but never know these days with tolerances. Just want someone reliable that has been used before rather than some random unknown and ending up with out dimensions.

Albeit should be near impossible to screw up a shim but also material quality will matter too. Smile
flag mwilliams
Posted: Jun 23, 2013 at 10:13 Quote
Just tell them the dimensions you want, I just got all 0.1mm thick from 8mm OD to 16mm OD.
flag Nobble
Posted: Jun 23, 2013 at 15:42 Quote
slidways wrote:
TheGr33k- Yeah i feel the spring rate is probably correct, given the x-soft is recommended for riders under 140lbs (63kg), I think at 60kg and riding at a decent level the soft is a good move, but I will give it a another test once the shim stack is changed. Im not going to touch the oil weights yet, The beginning of the fork feels good when the LSC is not so high but it blows through so The oil velocity should be fine its just the support throughout the fork that is having the issue.
Oil is probably the last thing I will look at, as i understand the velocity has virtually no effect on the HSC its mostly a LSC effect. So I will look at that if I find the LSC is diving too much once the shim is done.

bikerboywill wrote:
Get an avalanche cartridge for it. And the rest will happen Wink

I did look into this and its a good idea but about $550 all up its a lot cheaper to re shim and get it working. I also would like to understand forks more and its a good opportunity to learn.
out of curiosity have you tried rebuilding the damper? You might not have enough oil or have a bad seal of some sort.

Edit: it actually kinda sounds like you managed to tune yourself out.
flag slidways
Posted: Jun 24, 2013 at 0:18 Quote
Nobble wrote:
slidways wrote:
TheGr33k- Yeah i feel the spring rate is probably correct, given the x-soft is recommended for riders under 140lbs (63kg), I think at 60kg and riding at a decent level the soft is a good move, but I will give it a another test once the shim stack is changed. Im not going to touch the oil weights yet, The beginning of the fork feels good when the LSC is not so high but it blows through so The oil velocity should be fine its just the support throughout the fork that is having the issue.
Oil is probably the last thing I will look at, as i understand the velocity has virtually no effect on the HSC its mostly a LSC effect. So I will look at that if I find the LSC is diving too much once the shim is done.

bikerboywill wrote:
Get an avalanche cartridge for it. And the rest will happen Wink

I did look into this and its a good idea but about $550 all up its a lot cheaper to re shim and get it working. I also would like to understand forks more and its a good opportunity to learn.
out of curiosity have you tried rebuilding the damper? You might not have enough oil or have a bad seal of some sort.

Edit: it actually kinda sounds like you managed to tune yourself out.

Tune myself out?
flag ThEGr33k
Posted: Jun 24, 2013 at 0:54 Quote
slidways wrote:
Nobble wrote:
slidways wrote:
TheGr33k- Yeah i feel the spring rate is probably correct, given the x-soft is recommended for riders under 140lbs (63kg), I think at 60kg and riding at a decent level the soft is a good move, but I will give it a another test once the shim stack is changed. Im not going to touch the oil weights yet, The beginning of the fork feels good when the LSC is not so high but it blows through so The oil velocity should be fine its just the support throughout the fork that is having the issue.
Oil is probably the last thing I will look at, as i understand the velocity has virtually no effect on the HSC its mostly a LSC effect. So I will look at that if I find the LSC is diving too much once the shim is done.



I did look into this and its a good idea but about $550 all up its a lot cheaper to re shim and get it working. I also would like to understand forks more and its a good opportunity to learn.
out of curiosity have you tried rebuilding the damper? You might not have enough oil or have a bad seal of some sort.

Edit: it actually kinda sounds like you managed to tune yourself out.

Tune myself out?

I wouldn't worry...

Something you might have seen. Pretty good read, thankfully makes my theory on how to mod the Race/RC sound reasonably accurate. Smile

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/RockShox-Rear-Shock-Tuning-Experience.html

Also looks like the ID of the Vivid shims are 6mm which is the same as the ones in my race. They are easy to find to buy which is a bonus. Will see about ordering some on pay day Smile . The larger ones are wider by a mm but the rest could be useful. I don't know what the ID of the shims you need will be the same but judging by the way Rockshox seem to work they probably standardised 6mm ID shims.
flag slidways
Posted: Jun 24, 2013 at 7:34 Quote
Ok cheers was wondering what the ID was. Sounds good.
flag ThEGr33k
Posted: Jun 26, 2013 at 4:36 Quote
OK here we go again on my mod to Boxxer Race. It would be awesome if anyone with a little knowledge of damping could check my idea for legitimacy. I am pretty certain it will work but nice to have a 2nd opinion.

Right, this is the image (sorry it is paint) of how it will change.

This is a theoretical mod to the Boxxer Race Motion Control to allow for Low speed and High speed compression to be controlled separately.

So the standard setup on the left shows how the flow works, it goes past the orifice adjuster at the bottom which is cammed so orifice size can be adjusted. This then flows into the shim stack. This means that ALL compression is regulated by the same shims and orifice.

<Deleted photo>

So what I propose is to drill the original orifice holes on the inside under the shims so that the flow through the original orifice bypasses the shim stack, you can see what I mean in the next pic, in the top left is the back of the compression head. After that (see pic below) there are some holes already in the head of the damper but are blocked on the bottom side. These holes go right upto the shim stack in a similar fashion to the stock orifice holes (you can see all 6 holes as standard below). I propose drilling the face so that these 3 covered holes are open straight to the shim stack. So that one oil circuit is controlled by Orifice size and the other by the shim stack. This 2 circuit system is the standard setup in the more expensive Boxxer models.

Unsecure image, only https images allowed: http://fstatic1.mtb-news.de/img/photos/7/1/4/4/8/_/medium/boxxer_race_2010_einzelteile_moco_e_1262271641.jpg
To summerise;

-Low speed compression is adjusted by the original orifice cam adjuster

-High speed compression is adjusted by the shim stack





As a side note. With these other 3 holes already been in the head of the compression damper I get the feeling that Rockshox already had a similar idea in the works to mine above but poo poo'd it as it would make the Race/RC fork much closer to the Team/R2C2, at least on the compression side!
flag ThEGr33k
Posted: Aug 20, 2013 at 1:25 Quote
I was changing my headset bearings yesterday when I noticed that the top clamp on my Boxxers had marked the stanchions where the bolt pinches. Just wondering if this is normal? Anyone else noticed this?
flag stefan-ram
Posted: Aug 20, 2013 at 11:45 Quote
ThEGr33k wrote:
I was changing my headset bearings yesterday when I noticed that the top clamp on my Boxxers had marked the stanchions where the bolt pinches. Just wondering if this is normal? Anyone else noticed this?
Yes its normal , i was worrying at the beginning but now i dont care
flag ThEGr33k
Posted: Aug 20, 2013 at 16:06 Quote
stefan-ram wrote:
ThEGr33k wrote:
I was changing my headset bearings yesterday when I noticed that the top clamp on my Boxxers had marked the stanchions where the bolt pinches. Just wondering if this is normal? Anyone else noticed this?
Yes its normal , i was worrying at the beginning but now i dont care

Cheers for replying. I know it doesn't matter in the least but it's good to know it is normal Smile
flag nhp890
Posted: Aug 21, 2013 at 13:33 Quote
Did a rebuild of my Motion Control damper a few days back. (according to the tech video by sram) and there's a metallic clunk when the fork rebounds quickly. It wasn't there earlier and it only occurs on quick rebounds like getting off a lip. Have you ever came across this problem?

 


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