Best AM Bike: Enduro vs. Reign vs. Remedy

PB Forum :: All Mountain, Enduro & Cross-Country
Best AM Bike: Enduro vs. Reign vs. Remedy
Author Message
flag canadiandegelder
Posted: Dec 27, 2008 at 21:22 Quote
OK, so on a bit of a side note, I was just looking at the specs and MSRP's of a bunch of bikes today and came across something. I know value isn't everything, but for those on a budget, you want to get your money's worth. I looked at the Trek Remedy and the value struck me as... oh... ATROCIOUS.

Here's a cut and paste from Trek's website:

MSRP: $3399 CAD

Frameset
Sizes 15.5, 17.5, 19.5, 21.5"
Frame Alpha Red Aluminum w/ABP, Full Floater, E2 head tube, alloy EVO Link, oversized bearings, 150mm travel
Front Suspension RockShox Lyrik IS U-Turn w/E2 steerer, 20mm Maxle, 115-160mm
Rear Suspension Fox RP2 XV Air Can, custom "all-mountain tuned" w/Pro Pedal, rebound; 8.0x2.25"
Wheels
Wheels Bontrager Rhythm wheel system, 28mm, tubeless ready
Tires Kenda Nevegal w/SWS sidewall protection, 26x2.35"; 127 tpi
Drivetrain
Shifters Shimano SLX SL
Front Derailleur Shimano SLX, high mount
Rear Derailleur Shimano SLX "Shadow"
Crank Shimano SLX 44/32/22
Cassette SRAM PG950 11-32, 9 speed
Pedals n/a
Components
Saddle Bontrager Rhythm Basic
Seat Post Bontrager Race Lite, 5mm offset
Handlebars Bontrager Race, 40mm rise, 31.8mm, 690mm width
Stem Bontrager Race Lite, 7 degree, 31.8mm
Headset Frustum Cane Creek SE Light Edition; 1 1/8" top, 1.5" bottom
Brakeset Avid Juicy 5, hydraulic disc; 203mm front rotor, 185mm rear rotor

So, maybe it's just me, but when you are spending almost 3 big ones on a bike, isn't it a little weak to be getting an RP2 shock, U-Turn fork, SLX drivetrain, and Juicy 5's? Maybe I'm just the odd one; I've gotten that before.
flag whattheheel
Posted: Dec 28, 2008 at 7:27 Quote
canadiandegelder wrote:
OK, so on a bit of a side note, I was just looking at the specs and MSRP's of a bunch of bikes today and came across something. I know value isn't everything, but for those on a budget, you want to get your money's worth. I looked at the Trek Remedy and the value struck me as... oh... ATROCIOUS.

Here's a cut and paste from Trek's website:

MSRP: $3399 CAD

Frameset
Sizes 15.5, 17.5, 19.5, 21.5"
Frame Alpha Red Aluminum w/ABP, Full Floater, E2 head tube, alloy EVO Link, oversized bearings, 150mm travel
Front Suspension RockShox Lyrik IS U-Turn w/E2 steerer, 20mm Maxle, 115-160mm
Rear Suspension Fox RP2 XV Air Can, custom "all-mountain tuned" w/Pro Pedal, rebound; 8.0x2.25"
Wheels
Wheels Bontrager Rhythm wheel system, 28mm, tubeless ready
Tires Kenda Nevegal w/SWS sidewall protection, 26x2.35"; 127 tpi
Drivetrain
Shifters Shimano SLX SL
Front Derailleur Shimano SLX, high mount
Rear Derailleur Shimano SLX "Shadow"
Crank Shimano SLX 44/32/22
Cassette SRAM PG950 11-32, 9 speed
Pedals n/a
Components
Saddle Bontrager Rhythm Basic
Seat Post Bontrager Race Lite, 5mm offset
Handlebars Bontrager Race, 40mm rise, 31.8mm, 690mm width
Stem Bontrager Race Lite, 7 degree, 31.8mm
Headset Frustum Cane Creek SE Light Edition; 1 1/8" top, 1.5" bottom
Brakeset Avid Juicy 5, hydraulic disc; 203mm front rotor, 185mm rear rotor

So, maybe it's just me, but when you are spending almost 3 big ones on a bike, isn't it a little weak to be getting an RP2 shock, U-Turn fork, SLX drivetrain, and Juicy 5's? Maybe I'm just the odd one; I've gotten that before.
Giant is going to give you the most bang for your buck (i.e. value) because they are the largest producer of bikes in the world and get a hell of a discount on parts. Also, I always take the words of Mountain Bike Fiction with a grain of salt, kind of listening to all the PBers. Good luck!
flag davemud
Posted: Dec 28, 2008 at 13:23 Quote
I was looking at the Trek this morning too and thought what a burn! The Remedy 7, the 6 inch bike, is the same category as the 2009 Reign 1 but the Reign is a far better value. I can't really understand why the Trek is so much more but you can be sure I'll be adding that to my pitch on the Reign.

You haven't said why you aren't considering the Reign instead of the Reign X in this comparison. I didn't see pricing on the specialised but I looked at it too, granted I'm comparing all '09s but the Reign seems to be the best value out of the three as mentioned above.
flag robschultz2
Posted: Dec 28, 2008 at 15:12 Quote
davemud wrote:
I was looking at the Trek this morning too and thought what a burn! The Remedy 7, the 6 inch bike, is the same category as the 2009 Reign 1 but the Reign is a far better value. I can't really understand why the Trek is so much more but you can be sure I'll be adding that to my pitch on the Reign.

You haven't said why you aren't considering the Reign instead of the Reign X in this comparison. I didn't see pricing on the specialised but I looked at it too, granted I'm comparing all '09s but the Reign seems to be the best value out of the three as mentioned above.

Trek must be still cashing in on their "Remedy is the new hotness" label all the bike mags were giving it, Im sure either their prices will have to cool, or their component mix will have improve in order to get the remedy more compeditive to the reign.
flag davemud
Posted: Dec 28, 2008 at 16:12 Quote
Iguess but what's so hot about the Remedy really? The pivot point on the axle? If that's supposed to make the rear end more compliant, that's the claim, I didn't feel that when I rode the Remedy and the Exo.

By happenstance I rode both on the same Burnaby Mountain loop:

North Road - Dead Moped - Joe's - Mels - Nicoles - Lower Snake - Jim's Jungle - Power Line - Moped - North Road.

That's a great loop for testing a bike IMO since it has a bit of everything. I wanted to like the Treks because when I started at Westwood I was impressed with ADP pitch and the bike. Unfortuneately for me the Trek's feel on the trail didn't match its promise or my hopes for it. I was pretty disappointed it didn't feel as compliant in the back as my 4" 10 year old RMB. The forks obviously felt hella better than the ol' Judy DH but not better than my new RS Recon Race.

There is no way I'd spend 4 large on the Remedy 7 based on how it felt on the trail never mind the spec.
flag Mugen
FL
Posted: Dec 28, 2008 at 16:58 Quote
This has been mentioned before but ill say it again

I would recommend you take a look at the regular giant reign (not x). 6" at the back 5.5" at the front, the reign 1 that is fits nicely in price range weighs 30lbs with big pedals and tyres.

I got mine as I ride mainly XC and trails. on these the bike is a dream no trouble pedaling long uphills thanks to low weight and no problem with technical climbs despite aggressive-ish geometry and on trails/XC decents it will keep up with ANYTHING. I recently started doing some DH and now take the bike out to the DH tracks nearly every weekend. I put a bash ring on and got slightly wider bars but other than that the bike performs admirably on extremely muddy, tech descents.

I think you should consider this bike because the reign 1 is a good bit cheaper than the bike mentioned above or you could go with the reign 0 for similar money that will have higher spec and very low weight (28 i think). Remember that giant are well known to be the best value for money components wise
flag canadiandegelder
Posted: Dec 28, 2008 at 22:16 Quote
Mugen wrote:
This has been mentioned before but ill say it again

I would recommend you take a look at the regular giant reign (not x). 6" at the back 5.5" at the front, the reign 1 that is fits nicely in price range weighs 30lbs with big pedals and tyres.

I got mine as I ride mainly XC and trails. on these the bike is a dream no trouble pedaling long uphills thanks to low weight and no problem with technical climbs despite aggressive-ish geometry and on trails/XC decents it will keep up with ANYTHING. I recently started doing some DH and now take the bike out to the DH tracks nearly every weekend. I put a bash ring on and got slightly wider bars but other than that the bike performs admirably on extremely muddy, tech descents.

I think you should consider this bike because the reign 1 is a good bit cheaper than the bike mentioned above or you could go with the reign 0 for similar money that will have higher spec and very low weight (28 i think). Remember that giant are well known to be the best value for money components wise

I went to Steed Cycles and took a look at the Reign 0 and Reign 1, in both the 2008 and 2009 models. Firstly, I would be looking at a 2008 because now is the time when all the deals are popping up. It seems like a great bike all around, with the following exceptions: A 69 degree head angle is getting pretty steep. I know they've slackened the HA's of the 09's, but even 68 is XC'ish. Also, I don't know what it is, and I know I won't break anything being a flyweight 140 lb., but they seem somewhat 'fragile'. I ride a good bit of XC for some exercise, but I also ride the North Shore many weekends. I don't know if any of you have ridden them, except davemud, no doubt, but they are hard on the body and on the bikes. The combination of the HA and the 'fragile' looks make it a little unappealing.

Thing is, I'm fighting a losing battle. Preaching to the converted, or whatever you want to call it.
flag canadiandegelder
Posted: Dec 28, 2008 at 22:46 Quote
So, I have a bit of an off-topic question about the Enduro here. Do you think it's worth upgrading (about $400) from the Enduro Comp to the Expert? Here's a copy from the Specialized website.

Expert:

Unsecure image, only https images allowed: http://www.thetristore.com/products/enduroexpert08.jpg
FRAME
Enduro M5 alloy, fully manipulated frame w/ ORE TT and DT, forged HT, sealed cartridge bearing pivots, ISCG mount adj. geometry, replaceable derailleur hanger, 150mm travel
REAR SHOCK
Specialized AFR Shock w/ Spike valve, air spring, adjustable rebound and low speed compression, 7.875x2.25"
FORK
Specialized Future Shock e150SL, dual crown w/ integrated stem, 150mm travel, rebound, compresion and travel adjust, 25mm thru axle, alloy steerer
HEADSET
1 1/8" threadless, alloy cups w/ 10mm insertion, sealed cartridge bearing
STEM
Specialized Future Shock, 31.8mm clamp integrated w/ fork
HANDLEBARS
Specialized Enduro mid rise bar, 2014 alloy, 31.8mm, 6 degree up, 9 degree backsweep, 660mm wide
TAPE/GRIPS
Specialized thin lock on grip, dual density
FRONT BRAKE
Custom Avid Ultimate 7, hydraulic disc, 203mm rotor
REAR BRAKE
Custom Avid Ultimate 7, hydraulic disc, 185mm rotor
BRAKE LEVERS
Custom Avid Ultimate 7, hydraulic disc
FRONT DERAILLEUR
Shimano M581 LX, DMD, top swing, dual pull
REAR DERAILLEUR
SRAM X-0, 9-speed, mid cage
SHIFT LEVERS
SRAM X-9, aluminum 9-speed trigger
CASSETTE FREEWHEEL
Shimano HG-50, 9-speed, 11-34t
CHAIN
SRAM PC-971 w/ Power Link
CRANKSET
Shimano M762 XT custom for Specialized
CHAINRINGS
22S/32A/44A, 4 bolt 104/64mm
BOTTOM BRACKET
Shimano M762 XT custom for Specialized
PEDALS
N/A
RIMS
DT Swiss custom for Specialized X420, 24mm w/ eyelets, 32h
FRONT HUB
Specialized disc, 25mm thru axle, 32h
REAR HUB
DT Swiss custom for Specialized 370 w/ DT RWS QR, 32h
SPOKES
DT Swiss Competition 1.8/1.6mm
FRONT TIRE
S-Works Eskar, 26x2.3", 120 TPI, aramid tubeless ready bead, dual compound
REAR TIRE
S-Works Eskar, 26x2.3", 120 TPI, aramid tubeless ready bead, dual compound
TUBES
Specialized Ultralite, .6mm, presta
SADDLE
Specialized Enduro, hollow Cr-Mo rails, SL foam
SEAT POST
2014 butted alloy, single bolt setback, 30.9 x 350/400mm
SEAT BINDER
Alloy collar w/ QR, 34.9mm clamp ID
NOTES
Protective clear coat, derailleur hanger, reflectors, owners manual

Comp:

Unsecure image, only https images allowed: http://www.pailheadweb.com/images/specialized-enduro-sl-comp-2008.jpg
FRAME
Enduro M5 alloy, fully manipulated frame w/ ORE TT and DT, forged HT, sealed cartridge bearing pivots, ISCG mount adj. geometry, replaceable derailleur hanger, 150mm travel
REAR SHOCK
Specialized AFR Shock w/ Spike valve, air spring, adjustable rebound and low speed compression, 7.875x2.25"
FORK
Specialized Future Shock e150SL, dual crown w/ integrated stem, 150mm travel, rebound, compresion and travel adjust, 25mm thru axle, alloy steerer
HEADSET
1 1/8" threadless, alloy cups w/ 10mm insertion, sealed cartridge bearing
STEM
Specialized Future Shock, 31.8mm clamp integrated w/ fork
HANDLEBARS
Specialized Enduro mid rise bar, 6066 alloy, 31.8mm, 6 degree up, 9 degree backsweep, 660mm wide
TAPE/GRIPS
Specialized thin lock on grip, dual density
FRONT BRAKE
Custom Avid Juicy 5 SL, hydraulic disc, 203mm rotor
REAR BRAKE
Custom Avid Juicy 5 SL, hydraulic disc, 185mm rotor
BRAKE LEVERS
Custom Avid Juicy 5 SL, hydraulic disc
FRONT DERAILLEUR
Shimano M581 LX, DMD, top swing, dual pull
REAR DERAILLEUR
SRAM X-9, 9-speed, mid cage
SHIFT LEVERS
SRAM X-7, aluminum 9-speed trigger
CASSETTE FREEWHEEL
Shimano HG-50, 9-speed, 11-34t
CHAIN
SRAM PC-971 w/ Power Link
CRANKSET
Shimano A/A/S 2pc custom
CHAINRINGS
22S/32A/44A, 4 bolt 104/64mm
BOTTOM BRACKET
Shimano M542, 2pc custom for Specialized
PEDALS
N/A
RIMS
DT Swiss custom for Specialized X420, 24mm w/ eyelets, 28/32h
FRONT HUB
Specialized disc, 25mm thru axle, 32h
REAR HUB
Shimano custom M525SL hub for Specialized, 32h, alloy QR
SPOKES
DT Swiss 1.8mm stainless, alloy nipples
FRONT TIRE
S-Works Eskar, 26x2.3", 120 TPI, aramid tubeless ready bead, dual compound
REAR TIRE
S-Works Eskar, 26x2.3", 120 TPI, aramid tubeless ready bead, dual compound
TUBES
Specialized Ultralite, .6mm, presta
SADDLE
Specialized Enduro, hollow Cr-Mo rails, SL foam
SEAT POST
2014 butted alloy, single bolt setback, 30.9 x 350/400mm
SEAT BINDER
Alloy collar w/ QR, 34.9mm clamp ID
NOTES
Protective clear coat, derailleur hanger, reflectors, owners manual

What's changed from the 08' model from the 07', because I found a guy selling his 07' Enduro Pro w/ all the major parts (fork/shock) upgraded.

Sorry about the length of this one, it couldn't be helped.

In case it helps, I ride e-v-e-r-y-t-h-i-n-g, from the North Shore (very technical and steep DH) to XC to pavement, and am a fairly advanced rider (black diamond bike park/NS runs, but strong XC'r, nothing extreme/racing or particular lean towards a type of riding)

So - final question, I promise - but, do you think that for this kind of riding a 6" and 6" travel bike is enough? My brother just got a Kona Stab Deluxe (no comment...) and it has like 8" and 8". That, to me seems like overkill. My friends manage the NS on a EX8 and a Bottlerocket (emphasis on the EXCool .
flag canadiandegelder
Posted: Dec 29, 2008 at 10:54 Quote
Sorry about the length; it's the pictures and the spec list. Also, I like to think that by asking these questions, I'm helping others, and have gotten good feedback for this thread, but if it's just a nuisance to you, tell me, and I can keep my thoughts to myself. If you want to give me grief just for the fun of it, you can just leave. Thanks.
flag davemud
Posted: Dec 29, 2008 at 11:55 Quote
Ummm... why do you think the Reign looks more fragile than the Enduro. The frame is pretty similar really. The enduro could also be built by Giant btw. I think you are making too much about the 69 degree head angle. At the risk of getting yelled at If you were given 3 frames unmarked and all identical except for a 1 degree change in head angle, they's have 68 69 and 70 I think you as well as most of us would have a hard time pin pointing the 69 head tube.

Forget the numbers like a 1 degree difference and go with the feel. If you rode the 08 and 09 Reigns one after the other on the same trail and didn't know they had different HT angles I doubt you would realy notice much difference.

I rode the Reign X0 for a week first then got the Reign, I could feel the difference in geometry because the Reign's fork was an inch and a half too short. The Trance X1 is a completely different bike from the Reign X0 in nature but it is just as balanced and confidence inspiring as the Reign X0.

What prices have you been given on those bikes?
flag Hombre3000
O+
Posted: Dec 29, 2008 at 12:43 Quote
Agreed. A few mm's on the stem or on the bars could completely change how the bike steers - don't get caught up on angles.

As for (a while back) the carbon stays, my suggestion would be to put chainstay guards on them to protect them from rocks flung up and stuff. It's not going to save it from being thrown into a tree, but I promise it'll help to deflect the little things that would chip the surface and render it unrideable.
flag canadiandegelder
Posted: Dec 29, 2008 at 17:46 Quote
davemud wrote:
Ummm... why do you think the Reign looks more fragile than the Enduro. The frame is pretty similar really. The enduro could also be built by Giant btw. I think you are making too much about the 69 degree head angle. At the risk of getting yelled at If you were given 3 frames unmarked and all identical except for a 1 degree change in head angle, they's have 68 69 and 70 I think you as well as most of us would have a hard time pin pointing the 69 head tube.

Forget the numbers like a 1 degree difference and go with the feel. If you rode the 08 and 09 Reigns one after the other on the same trail and didn't know they had different HT angles I doubt you would realy notice much difference.

I rode the Reign X0 for a week first then got the Reign, I could feel the difference in geometry because the Reign's fork was an inch and a half too short. The Trance X1 is a completely different bike from the Reign X0 in nature but it is just as balanced and confidence inspiring as the Reign X0.

What prices have you been given on those bikes?

I'll likely go with a lightly used bike, that way I don't take the bike price hit the moment I take it out of the store.

2008 Enduro SL Comp - $1800
2008 Enduro SL Expert - $2200
2008 Giant Reign X1 - $1850 (add 300 for replacing/selling old shock with air)
2008 Trek Remedy 7 - $2600? (Yikes, not doin' that)

BTW, for a $400 price difference, would you upgrade from the Enduro Comp to the Enduro Expert?

Tried my Dad's Rocky Mountain Instinct (now Element), and with a 71 degree Ha, it was begging to go endo (went down CBC-Corkscrew-Pingu-Pangor). Not a huge difference, but pretty noticeable. I'll try and demo a Reign.

Davemud, do you have any Reigns left? Steed said the Reign and Reign X were so popular that they imported them from Giant USA because they were so low on stock. If you have any, what's your price on them?
flag davemud
Posted: Dec 30, 2008 at 11:50 Quote
I have a 2009 Reign 1 medium for 2899 and a 2009 Reign 2 Medium for 2129. I have 2008 Reign X2 in small or large for 2299.

Yes, giant did not bring enough of these bikes in last year so they ran out in June or something stupid like that. They bloody well better bring enough in this year is all I can say because I won't be going 3 to 4 months with no medium dulies like I had to this year...

For the record the element was around both before and after the Instinct. The instinct is an element frame with a higher component spec. In addition to the 71 degree head tube the top tube on the RMB is hella shorter than the Giants. My 19 inch RMB Element race has a 22.5 inch top tube a medium Reign, 18" has 23 inch top tube and the large, 20" has 24" top tube. The small, 16" Reign X0 has the same length top tube as my 19" element.

Its the length of the top tube that is making the most difference in how the bike feels not the head angle. Don't forget the steepness of the head tube angle is getting adjusted for the length of the fork and the amount of travel.
flag SIDESHOWBOB
Posted: Dec 31, 2008 at 14:04 Quote
Id just like to say that ive been riding my remedy 7 for a week (2009 model).
I have done some cross country on it and it pedals and climbs brilliantly,but apart from that i have done some downhill, north shore, bigish drops and big gap jumps and ok i dont go as big or as careless as on my big free ride bike but it can definetly handle the abuse.It is super fast and handles like nothing else. I have even used it at a bike park where i rode 4x and did some dirt jumps,this might sound mad but with the fork wound down a tad it was superb.
I think this is so much more than just a trail bike,it is a good all rounder but if you want to rip up some milage and descend faster than most downhill bikes and still climb easily then this is the one,i think its awsome.
flag davemud
Posted: Dec 31, 2008 at 17:31 Quote
I definitely liked the 08' Remedy's Lyrik fork and the XT drivetrain and no doubt it is robust and handles well. I just wasn't impressed with the the feel of the rear suspension. As I understand it though the '08 was a bit rushed to production and in 09 they have tweaked the back end to improve its ride characteristics. I hope to get my hands on a demo myself this year.

 


Copyright © 2000 - 2024. Pinkbike.com. All rights reserved.
dv42 0.061977
Mobile Version of Website