banshee wildcard VS Transition Bottlerocket

PB Forum :: Freeride & Slopestyle
banshee wildcard VS Transition Bottlerocket
Author Message
Posted: Dec 9, 2008 at 12:10 Quote
neither the Intense SS or Transition Bottle Rocket are "slopestyle frames" despite whatever marketing spin the companies have put on them...

look at the PRO SLOPESTYLE circuit, most of the riders are using hardtails, a handful use short travel suspension frames with the shock pumped up to take the sting out of heavy landings, but otherwise not move around much


if you are not talking about a "slopestyle" frame then what are you looking for, a mid-travel suspension frame like the Intense SS, Transition Bottle Rocket or Banshee Wildcard?

or do you actually want a shorter travel frame like the Transition Double or Banshee Rampant, which would actually be more suitable for "slopestyle" (i.e. Dirt Jumping with some wooden stunts) in the hands of an experienced rider

I would not personally touch the SS, its an obscene amount of money for what it is, with poor frame alignment, bearing durability issues, short-term durability (weld cracking around VVP links), horrible pedal feedback whilst manualling and weld-quality inferior to any quality Taiwanese frames I have seen from Giant, Specialized, etc. YES I have ridden a SS in anger, and did not enjoy the ride

I know 3 guys who bought SS frames during 2008, and none of them are riding these frames going in 2009 as they are all fed up with warranty claims and bearing replacement

The Bottlerocket? seems like a fun bike, but its using outdated tubing and fabrication technology which means it heavy and prone to cracking, but if wanna be trendy then go get one and join the club Wink

Posted: Dec 9, 2008 at 12:13 Quote
The Wildcard isn't light, I was quite surprised how heavy it was when I first picked up the frame - here's mine:
photo

weighs in at just under 40lbs as pictured (but clean)


I also find mine dives through its travel quite easily (it may be the dhx air shock) - I've added more air to the reservoir and screwed in the bottom out resistance dial to increase ramp-up, but I still can't run more than 10-15% sag to take big hits in the 5" travel setting.

It also doesn't look to have a particularly low CoG and I find it a little long for manuals and suchlike - it does corner well though, I expect a Transition or Solid Flair or Orange Blood would be a better choice for dedicated 'slopestyle' style riding!

Posted: Dec 9, 2008 at 12:15 Quote
The Wildcard isn't light, I was quite surprised how heavy it was when I first picked up the frame - here's mine:


actually the frame with DHX air shock is pretty light (8.4lb for medium) its your build that is heavy. my Wildcard with Lyrics was 34lb, Alan (banshee Australia) with singlespeed and Fox forks was 31lb


the Wildcard is not actually a "slopestyle" bike..its a mid travel freeride bike

the DHX Air is a bit simple and not the best shock you can get, it doesn't have a good mid stroke and can be quite tricky to setup so it does not bottom out too easily, but still gives some grip on the rough terrain

the best air shock for the Wildcard is the Manitou ISX-6 Evolver...totally awesome, my buddy runs one on his Wildcard whilst I had a DHX Air on my Wildcard and there is a big difference

if you actually want a "slopestyle" bike for dirt jumping and wooden stunts (i.e. 1/4 pipe, wall rides, etc.) this is what Banshee have:

photo

2485773


Posted: Dec 9, 2008 at 12:19 Quote
Your given advice totally contradicts all of Banshee's and Freeborn's - Freeborn said the DHX air was the best option, Banshee label the Wildcard as their slopestyle rig and the Rampant as the 4x rig, stating that the VF4 linkage isn't strong enough for constant abuse...

Posted: Dec 9, 2008 at 12:25 Quote
... not of any real concern to me though as there's no such thing as slopestyle near where I live, I ride mainly dh, fr and dj - the Wildcard is spot on for what I need, so I agree with what you say.

p.s. I know my build is heavyWink - I need it to take all kinds of riding from xc to 40ft road gaps, 20ft drops and doubles e.t.c. as well as perform well on local technical dh tracks. - 4" travel maximum would limit my riding too much for sure!

Posted: Dec 9, 2008 at 12:26 Quote
Your given advice totally contradicts all of Banshee's and Freeborn's - Freeborn said the DHX air was the best option, Banshee label the Wildcard as their slopestyle rig and the Rampant as the 4x rig, stating that the VF4 linkage isn't string enough for constant abuse...

Banshee has since given the Rampant to their Pro slopestyle riders / dirt jumpers like Alan and Chris in Australia, I have been using my Rampant for Dirt Jump and skatepark and had no issues with the virtual pivot linkage

ultimately the faux-bar on the Wildcard is stronger, but an experienced rider is not going to put the same stresses through a Rampant that a novice or intermediate rider is going to put through a Wildcard, Pro riders may go bigger but tend to crash much better Wink


the DHX Air is the best option in the UK market because you will get the best support from Mojo (Fox UK), the ISX-6 is technically the best shock but they could not get a good supply of them, and backup from Hotlines is nothing like as good as from Mojo for Fox products

Banshee do label the Wildcard as their "slopestyle" rig because what the public wants from a "slopestyle" bike and what pro riders use is completely different - its called capitalizing on a marketing trend and its something that ALL of the companies have done with the 5"-7" suspension frames the past season or two

The wildcard is easily the best all rounder than Banshee make, the Rampant is much more niche and works best in the hands of a skilled rider

riders come on pinkbike saying "I want to get into slopestyle" riding when the reality is that slopestyle is not something accessible to the public in general - its actually a pro-level competition held on a closed course (for example - the Boneyard in Whistler Bike Park is rebuilt for the Crankworx Slopestyle event and then the extreme stunts are remove before its re-opened to the public)

however, due to marketing and media hype, everyone thinks "I want to get into slopestyle", most riders don't have the skill level to survive a pro slopestyle course, or even have access to the terrain....

Posted: Dec 9, 2008 at 12:39 Quote
ctd07 wrote:
Your given advice totally contradicts all of Banshee's and Freeborn's - Freeborn said the DHX air was the best option, Banshee label the Wildcard as their slopestyle rig and the Rampant as the 4x rig, stating that the VF4 linkage isn't strong enough for constant abuse...

i think most of the reason for that is to protect there own ass, there is a good cahnce you will break a frame within 2 years if you are slopestyling with it so they say it is 4x, i can live with getting a new frame every year or 2 if it means my bike is light and agile, plus i ride specialized so i have lifetime warrenty

photo

2316020


Posted: Dec 9, 2008 at 12:41 Quote
bigquotesPro riders may go bigger but tend to crash much better

lol yup! - I always ride with an absolute determination to ride out of everything, kinda like Bearclaw does only I don't get given new parts each time I ding something - My bike has had to withstand severely casing a 22ft gap twice in a row and still ride me home down the local singletrack dh trails...

I'm a fairly light rider but love gettin loose, I tend not to ride around stuff like rock gardens and am a bit of a plow biker, always hitting stuff side on too - my riding mates call me 'the Crash Test Dummy' (hence CTD07) as I'm always the first to hit a jump/gapHelmet Beer


I take great pride in my own... ahem... 'style'?Confused

Posted: Dec 9, 2008 at 13:03 Quote
ctd07 wrote:
I'm always the first to hit a jump/gapHelmet Beer

I'm always the first to case a jump/gapHelmet Beer

O+ FL
Posted: Dec 9, 2008 at 13:21 Quote
hampsteadbandit wrote:
neither the Intense SS or Transition Bottle Rocket are "slopestyle frames" despite whatever marketing spin the companies have put on them...

look at the PRO SLOPESTYLE circuit, most of the riders are using hardtails, a handful use short travel suspension frames with the shock pumped up to take the sting out of heavy landings, but otherwise not move around much


if you are not talking about a "slopestyle" frame then what are you looking for, a mid-travel suspension frame like the Intense SS, Transition Bottle Rocket or Banshee Wildcard?

or do you actually want a shorter travel frame like the Transition Double or Banshee Rampant, which would actually be more suitable for "slopestyle" (i.e. Dirt Jumping with some wooden stunts) in the hands of an experienced rider

I would not personally touch the SS, its an obscene amount of money for what it is, with poor frame alignment, bearing durability issues, short-term durability (weld cracking around VVP links), horrible pedal feedback whilst manualling and weld-quality inferior to any quality Taiwanese frames I have seen from Giant, Specialized, etc. YES I have ridden a SS in anger, and did not enjoy the ride

I know 3 guys who bought SS frames during 2008, and none of them are riding these frames going in 2009 as they are all fed up with warranty claims and bearing replacement

The Bottlerocket? seems like a fun bike, but its using outdated tubing and fabrication technology which means it heavy and prone to cracking, but if wanna be trendy then go get one and join the club Wink

HAHA your posts are always grade "A" quality bull shit. First of all slopestyle is a discipline not a bike category Thomas Vanderham rode Crankworx on a Switch not your typical bike but it worked. Also you have said time and time again that pedal feedback doesn't matter for the purposes of slopestyle yet here you are telling everyone about how the SS has bad feedback. Banshee is not the answer for every bike everyone will ever need. The Rampant is supposedly a 4x bike if it is then I would hate it for freestyle and if it is a good freestyle bike then it probably sucks shit on the track. As for most guys riding hardtails I have no idea what competitions you are watching mostly I see 4-5" frames. The bottlerocket is a 5.5" frame I have one and I run a zero sag air shock and see absolutely nothing wrong with doing that.

Please try and make an educated post that is not blatant soliciting.

Posted: Dec 9, 2008 at 13:24 Quote
runner wrote:
ctd07 wrote:
I'm always the first to hit a jump/gapHelmet Beer

I'm always the first to case a jump/gapHelmet Beer
Somewhat surprisingly I virtually never crash on my first or second attempts at stuff, its just from-then-on-after cos I start getting overconfident....Confused

Posted: Dec 9, 2008 at 13:28 Quote
samnation wrote:
hampsteadbandit wrote:
yada yada... *snip*

HAHA your posts are always grade "A" quality bull shit. First of all slopestyle is a discipline not a bike category Thomas Vanderham rode Crankworx on a Switch not your typical bike but it worked. Also you have said time and time again that pedal feedback doesn't matter for the purposes of slopestyle yet here you are telling everyone about how the SS has bad feedback. Banshee is not the answer for every bike everyone will ever need. The Rampant is supposedly a 4x bike if it is then I would hate it for freestyle and if it is a good freestyle bike then it probably sucks shit on the track. As for most guys riding hardtails I have no idea what competitions you are watching mostly I see 4-5" frames. The bottlerocket is a 5.5" frame I have one and I run a zero sag air shock and see absolutely nothing wrong with doing that.

Please try and make an educated post that is not blatant soliciting.

A lot of the Europoean slopestyle events are much smaller than what you crazy ass canucks get up to so the riders do use a hardtails mostly - there is also a difference between pedal feedback to your feet (which is what 'hampsteadbandit' meant) and pedal feedback to the suspension - aka: bob - which wouldn't matter at all.

But then again, 'hampsteadbandit' does need to stop licking Banshee's balls so much!

O+ FL
Posted: Dec 9, 2008 at 13:30 Quote
ctd07 wrote:
samnation wrote:
hampsteadbandit wrote:
yada yada... *snip*

HAHA your posts are always grade "A" quality bull shit. First of all slopestyle is a discipline not a bike category Thomas Vanderham rode Crankworx on a Switch not your typical bike but it worked. Also you have said time and time again that pedal feedback doesn't matter for the purposes of slopestyle yet here you are telling everyone about how the SS has bad feedback. Banshee is not the answer for every bike everyone will ever need. The Rampant is supposedly a 4x bike if it is then I would hate it for freestyle and if it is a good freestyle bike then it probably sucks shit on the track. As for most guys riding hardtails I have no idea what competitions you are watching mostly I see 4-5" frames. The bottlerocket is a 5.5" frame I have one and I run a zero sag air shock and see absolutely nothing wrong with doing that.

Please try and make an educated post that is not blatant soliciting.

A lot of the Europoean slopestyle events are much smaller than what you crazy ass canucks get up to so the riders do use a hardtails mostly - there is also a difference between pedal feedback to your feet (which is what 'hampsteadbandit' meant) and pedal feedback to the suspension - aka: bob - which wouldn't matter at all.

But then again, 'hampsteadbandit' does need to stop licking Banshee's balls so much!

Any sort of feedback is never going to inhibit your ability to manual.

Posted: Dec 9, 2008 at 14:15 Quote
samnation wrote:
hampsteadbandit wrote:
neither the Intense SS or Transition Bottle Rocket are "slopestyle frames" despite whatever marketing spin the companies have put on them...

look at the PRO SLOPESTYLE circuit, most of the riders are using hardtails, a handful use short travel suspension frames with the shock pumped up to take the sting out of heavy landings, but otherwise not move around much


if you are not talking about a "slopestyle" frame then what are you looking for, a mid-travel suspension frame like the Intense SS, Transition Bottle Rocket or Banshee Wildcard?

or do you actually want a shorter travel frame like the Transition Double or Banshee Rampant, which would actually be more suitable for "slopestyle" (i.e. Dirt Jumping with some wooden stunts) in the hands of an experienced rider

I would not personally touch the SS, its an obscene amount of money for what it is, with poor frame alignment, bearing durability issues, short-term durability (weld cracking around VVP links), horrible pedal feedback whilst manualling and weld-quality inferior to any quality Taiwanese frames I have seen from Giant, Specialized, etc. YES I have ridden a SS in anger, and did not enjoy the ride

I know 3 guys who bought SS frames during 2008, and none of them are riding these frames going in 2009 as they are all fed up with warranty claims and bearing replacement

The Bottlerocket? seems like a fun bike, but its using outdated tubing and fabrication technology which means it heavy and prone to cracking, but if wanna be trendy then go get one and join the club Wink

HAHA your posts are always grade "A" quality bull shit. First of all slopestyle is a discipline not a bike category Thomas Vanderham rode Crankworx on a Switch not your typical bike but it worked. Also you have said time and time again that pedal feedback doesn't matter for the purposes of slopestyle yet here you are telling everyone about how the SS has bad feedback. Banshee is not the answer for every bike everyone will ever need. The Rampant is supposedly a 4x bike if it is then I would hate it for freestyle and if it is a good freestyle bike then it probably sucks shit on the track. As for most guys riding hardtails I have no idea what competitions you are watching mostly I see 4-5" frames. The bottlerocket is a 5.5" frame I have one and I run a zero sag air shock and see absolutely nothing wrong with doing that.

Please try and make an educated post that is not blatant soliciting.

i agree with you that most riders use 4-5 inch travel bikes in slopestyle events. In addidas slopestyle this year in europe, sam pilgrim won on a hardtail which was pretty sick. But he was like the only rider in the field on a hardtail. I think that if riders are able to use a hardtail, the course should be bigger. After all, we are MOUNTAIN bikers not bmxers.

Posted: Dec 9, 2008 at 14:19 Quote
ps. i bought a banshee rampant this year and it is THE perfect slopestyle bike in my opinion. It only has 4 inches but it feels like 6 and the thing pops way higher off jumps than my hardtail which makes it so easy to trick. hamsteadbandit is definitely right in the fact that the wildcard and intense are not really competitive slopestyle bikes. I think they have a little too much travel to throw down the latest technical tricks.


 


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