Choosing a Welder?

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Choosing a Welder?
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Posted: Jun 14, 2009 at 17:49 Quote
I made a thread about this last summer and most of the answers I got were research related. So I did some research and found out a little more about building bike frames and what class of welder I need.

However I wanted to get some input from someone that has actually built a frame from scratch. I need to know If I should get something around 140 or something a little bigger like a 175. This will be my first time welding so I need a welder that is "user freindly".

I am not planning on biulding the frame until I feel comfortable with my welds and I am most likely going to be doing alot of minor welding on my car, and othe little projects.

What I'm asking is will a 135/140 be able to handle a bike frame?

Your input would be greatly appreciated, Thanks

Posted: Jun 14, 2009 at 20:49 Quote
What kind of frames are you talking about boulding? (material)
and what process are you looking at using? (type of welder)

Posted: Jun 15, 2009 at 6:24 Quote
dirtjumper1992 wrote:
What kind of frames are you talking about boulding? (material)
and what process are you looking at using? (type of welder)

I want to build a steel hardtail frame, and I was looking a MIG welders.

Posted: Jun 15, 2009 at 6:38 Quote
If you have a 220 power supply go with the larger welder. Especially if you are welding on your car, etc, you will want to have the extra power and versatility of the larger machine. It's not that much more money and you will regret having limited yourself by buying the smaller machine. However, for building frame I would use a TIG

Posted: Jun 15, 2009 at 6:49 Quote
dspracing wrote:
If you have a 220 power supply go with the larger welder. Especially if you are welding on your car, etc, you will want to have the extra power and versatility of the larger machine. It's not that much more money and you will regret having limited yourself by buying the smaller machine. However, for building frame I would use a TIG

I was actually told that the larger welder the bigger the gun and would be hard to weld in small places, but I was also told to go with the larger welder (as you said) because I will regret it later.

Is TIG a more stable weld? I meen I work at minimum wage Im not going to buy the most expensive welder, but i want to get qualtiy. If an MIG is cheaper im going with it.

Posted: Jun 15, 2009 at 6:51 Quote
I tried welding up a frame with a small welder (110) and it was not strong enough for the thickness of the metal.

Posted: Jun 15, 2009 at 7:46 Quote
Tig will produce a cosmetically better looking weld. You should enroll in a welding class at a community college. It will jumpstart your welding and you can use their machines and other tools to do it. Also, most teachers will let you come back at any time after the class to work on your own projects.

Posted: Jun 15, 2009 at 7:48 Quote
The 110v machine will be plenty strong enough for a weld on anything up to at least .120 wall I would assume you would not be using anything heavier than that.

Posted: Jun 15, 2009 at 7:52 Quote
madeinchinamyass wrote:
I was actually told that the larger welder the bigger the gun and would be hard to weld in small places, but I was also told to go with the larger welder (as you said) because I will regret it later.

Is TIG a more stable weld? I meen I work at minimum wage Im not going to buy the most expensive welder, but i want to get qualtiy. If an MIG is cheaper im going with it.

To a point that's true but only when you get up to the really big welders. I had some stupid small welder from Canadian Tire and when I reached its limitation I went out and got a Miller 180. The gun size between the 2 is not noticeable, everything that I could reach before I could reach still.

Its also true to get the biggest welder you can afford. My brother spent a couple hundred on the little one. It worked for a while, then we started different types of fabrication and the small welder no longer cut it so I went out and got the 180 and haven't looked back. If I were to do it again, I would've gone straight to the 180.

MIG welders in general are cheaper, but when it comes to bike building a TIG weld is more stable and a lot more controllable. I've never looked into the price of a stick welder but you can also check the pricing for a stick welder that would accept a TIG add-on if it can do a foot pedal that's even better.

If money is an issue I suggest keeping an eye on your local classifieds and Craigslist etc. A lot of people seem to buy tools like welders with good intentions and find that they're just taking up space so you can find some machines that are a year or two old that were used a handful of times with a couple hundred knocked off.

Posted: Jun 15, 2009 at 14:07 Quote
ezekiel wrote:
madeinchinamyass wrote:
I was actually told that the larger welder the bigger the gun and would be hard to weld in small places, but I was also told to go with the larger welder (as you said) because I will regret it later.

Is TIG a more stable weld? I meen I work at minimum wage Im not going to buy the most expensive welder, but i want to get qualtiy. If an MIG is cheaper im going with it.

To a point that's true but only when you get up to the really big welders. I had some stupid small welder from Canadian Tire and when I reached its limitation I went out and got a Miller 180. The gun size between the 2 is not noticeable, everything that I could reach before I could reach still.

Its also true to get the biggest welder you can afford. My brother spent a couple hundred on the little one. It worked for a while, then we started different types of fabrication and the small welder no longer cut it so I went out and got the 180 and haven't looked back. If I were to do it again, I would've gone straight to the 180.

MIG welders in general are cheaper, but when it comes to bike building a TIG weld is more stable and a lot more controllable. I've never looked into the price of a stick welder but you can also check the pricing for a stick welder that would accept a TIG add-on if it can do a foot pedal that's even better.

If money is an issue I suggest keeping an eye on your local classifieds and Craigslist etc. A lot of people seem to buy tools like welders with good intentions and find that they're just taking up space so you can find some machines that are a year or two old that were used a handful of times with a couple hundred knocked off.

Yeah I've been watching craigslist for about a week now and I've seen a few welders but they've all been either way to big or something a little to small. I'll keep looking though.

The stick welders seem to be a lot cheeper than a MIG. I'll look into that.
I also have been meening to talk to my grandfather who has been welding for about 50 yrs. but I'm having trouble getting a hold of him.

And for the guy who said enroll in a welding class, I have been looking for welding classes but the only community colleges that offer are about 50 miles away a little to far. And My school doesnt offer welding, so I think Im going to get advise from my grandfather and grab a book and take a long look at it before I start "trying" to weld.

I dont want to buy a welder just to find out later I need some thing bigger so I am and will be doing a lot more research and asking around before I come to a conclusion.

Posted: Jun 15, 2009 at 18:44 Quote
Mig has the problem of cold starts. You tend to weld fast with a MIG, not always bad but the consistancy would be a killer. I would not trust a MIG welded frame. I would not buy a MIG welded frame. If you were super pro star MIG welder you could probably produce a decent frame. I would still take a TIG frame. TIG is much more controlable. You can get a fairly decent weld that is ugly with a TIG welder. You can pretty easily see if a TIG weld is bad, Porosity is easilly visable, weld ripples should not be flat or look like they are sitting on top of the peice....... I paid $1100 for my Lincoln PT175. It does not have the wave controll on A/C it is auto balance, no pulse and a 175 is WAY small for Alu in general (for thin walled Alu like frames it would definatly work but solid heavy Alu it gets small real quick). For steel it is great 1/4" plate can be done but I have never really had the need to touch that stuff.

You can go with a stick welder but you would have no high frequency stary only lift arc. There is a guy with a web site that shows how to wire HF into a stick welder, he may even have a grocery list. Also the peddals and torches are fairly pricey making it cheaper just to buy the TIG unit in the first place.

Posted: Jun 15, 2009 at 18:50 Quote
ricar wrote:
Mig has the problem of cold starts. You tend to weld fast with a MIG, not always bad but the consistancy would be a killer. I would not trust a MIG welded frame. I would not buy a MIG welded frame. If you were super pro star MIG welder you could probably produce a decent frame. I would still take a TIG frame. TIG is much more controlable. You can get a fairly decent weld that is ugly with a TIG welder. You can pretty easily see if a TIG weld is bad, Porosity is easilly visable, weld ripples should not be flat or look like they are sitting on top of the peice....... I paid $1100 for my Lincoln PT175. It does not have the wave controll on A/C it is auto balance, no pulse and a 175 is WAY small for Alu in general (for thin walled Alu like frames it would definatly work but solid heavy Alu it gets small real quick). For steel it is great 1/4" plate can be done but I have never really had the need to touch that stuff.

You can go with a stick welder but you would have no high frequency stary only lift arc. There is a guy with a web site that shows how to wire HF into a stick welder, he may even have a grocery list. Also the peddals and torches are fairly pricey making it cheaper just to buy the TIG unit in the first place.
a lot of frames are mig welded theres nothing wrong with mig welded frames if you do it right you have to pre heat the metal or heat treat it its the same thing with tig difference is tig heats up a lot smaller area

Posted: Jun 15, 2009 at 18:54 Quote
if your looking for a machine look at lincon and dont look at spending less then a grand and if you buy a stick machine look at the wire feeders that come seperate

Posted: Jun 15, 2009 at 19:04 Quote
practice gas welding/brazing... all you need is a bottle of Oxygen and Acetylene and a special tip!

And if your grandpa was a welder he will have some extra hoses and regulator kicking around!

Posted: Jun 15, 2009 at 19:18 Quote
do not braze aluminum period very bad idea. get a mig welder preferably a 2 dial one for heat and one for the speed of your metal feed. they are very simple and work great my class got a new welder it has like a hundred dials and it take 4 hours to set up its so annoying.

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