Alternate suspensions designs besides single pivots

PB Forum :: Other
Alternate suspensions designs besides single pivots
Author Message
flag a-r-c
O+
Posted: Dec 6, 2007 at 12:48 Quote
Wilson4 wrote:
ariadnacycles wrote:
I guess this is an apropriate place to ask this question.

What would this be? I'm pretty sure its a single pivot, but would it work, considering the frame was strong enough?

photo

1632613


photo

1021064


Nicolia=mad science
flag stever
O+
Posted: Dec 6, 2007 at 13:01 Quote
ariadnacycles wrote:
I guess this is an apropriate place to ask this question.

What would this be? I'm pretty sure its a single pivot, but would it work, considering the frame was strong enough?

photo

1632613


Suspension aside, what I find funny is in this picture is how its a "drawing" of a bike, but if you look close, the fork is photoshopped 2008 66. Someone had too much time on their hands....
flag jonmiller
Posted: Dec 6, 2007 at 13:06 Quote
dam those are some weird but nice bikes
flag mtbman1980
O+ FL
Posted: Dec 6, 2007 at 13:13 Quote
See the problem is that a design like a stinky is a 4-bar design. It just happens to have the axel on the swingarm so you dont get the bennifits of horst link style of design and act like a single pivot. So everyone is right and wrong all at the same time. Thats why i like the name faux bar linkage.
flag ariadnacycles
Posted: Dec 6, 2007 at 13:29 Quote
stever wrote:
ariadnacycles wrote:
I guess this is an apropriate place to ask this question.

What would this be? I'm pretty sure its a single pivot, but would it work, considering the frame was strong enough?


Suspension aside, what I find funny is in this picture is how its a "drawing" of a bike, but if you look close, the fork is photoshopped 2008 66. Someone had too much time on their hands....

That would be me. Its not that hard. I mean, just download a pic of any bike you like (that way most of the angles and proportions would be right, and of course fork and shock), then on paint, you just erase the frame and swingarme and you draw your own.

I have a bunch of them on my profile, this account is to just show them off. most of them are not functional, but they are ideas.
flag thom
Posted: Dec 6, 2007 at 13:48 Quote
Single pivot has nothing to do with the amount of pivots. it has to do with the amount of pivots bewteen the bottom bracket and the rear axle.

Transitions are single pivot bikes.
Kona's are single pivot bikes.

Kyle,
flag a-r-c
O+
Posted: Dec 6, 2007 at 14:13 Quote
thom wrote:
Single pivot has nothing to do with the amount of pivots. it has to do with the amount of pivots bewteen the bottom bracket and the rear axle.

Transitions are single pivot bikes.
Kona's are single pivot bikes.

Kyle,

What if the pivot is on the dowtube of the frame in front of the BB...is that a no pivot?
flag mtbman1980
O+ FL
Posted: Dec 6, 2007 at 14:22 Quote
maestroforlife wrote:
thom wrote:
Single pivot has nothing to do with the amount of pivots. it has to do with the amount of pivots bewteen the bottom bracket and the rear axle.

Transitions are single pivot bikes.
Kona's are single pivot bikes.

Kyle,

What if the pivot is on the dowtube of the frame in front of the BB...is that a no pivot?

call it a floatting pivot pointlol jk
flag a-r-c
O+
Posted: Dec 6, 2007 at 14:23 Quote
mtbman1980 wrote:
maestroforlife wrote:
thom wrote:
Single pivot has nothing to do with the amount of pivots. it has to do with the amount of pivots bewteen the bottom bracket and the rear axle.

Transitions are single pivot bikes.
Kona's are single pivot bikes.

Kyle,

What if the pivot is on the dowtube of the frame in front of the BB...is that a no pivot?

call it a floatting pivot pointlol jk

FPP...the next revolution in suspension designSmile
flag riderxbaird
Posted: Dec 6, 2007 at 14:37 Quote
fuzzdh wrote:
ok sorry i didnt know vpp stood for 'virtual' point pivot, i thought it was 'variable', but anywa,t a bottle rocket is not a single pivot bike. i just thought it was a vpp as it was similar to a vp free (but now looking closely i can see it isnt)

Unsecure image, only https images allowed: http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/2350/224vr6.jpg
single pivot


Unsecure image, only https images allowed: http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/285/bottlerocketei8.png
i count 4 pivots

that transition only has 3. one of those is a chain guard.
flag signorvince2
Posted: Dec 6, 2007 at 14:39 Quote
KoNa-4-Lif wrote:
fuzzdh wrote:
ok sorry i didnt know vpp stood for 'virtual' point pivot, i thought it was 'variable', but anywa,t a bottle rocket is not a single pivot bike. i just thought it was a vpp as it was similar to a vp free (but now looking closely i can see it isnt)

Unsecure image, only https images allowed: http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/2350/224vr6.jpg
single pivot


Unsecure image, only https images allowed: http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/285/bottlerocketei8.png
i count 4 pivots

that transition only has 3. one of those is a chain guard.

Actually there is 4, you can't see one becasue the mrp is in the way. But it behaves like a single pivot wiht a swing link, kinda like kona's are 4-bar bikes and single pivots (just with a rocker link)
flag Wilson4
Posted: Dec 6, 2007 at 14:39 Quote
KoNa-4-Lif wrote:
fuzzdh wrote:
ok sorry i didnt know vpp stood for 'virtual' point pivot, i thought it was 'variable', but anywa,t a bottle rocket is not a single pivot bike. i just thought it was a vpp as it was similar to a vp free (but now looking closely i can see it isnt)

Unsecure image, only https images allowed: http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/2350/224vr6.jpg
single pivot


Unsecure image, only https images allowed: http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/285/bottlerocketei8.png
i count 4 pivots

that transition only has 3. one of those is a chain guard.

There's a pivot behind that.
flag riderxbaird
Posted: Dec 6, 2007 at 14:40 Quote
Wilson4 wrote:
KoNa-4-Lif wrote:
fuzzdh wrote:
ok sorry i didnt know vpp stood for 'virtual' point pivot, i thought it was 'variable', but anywa,t a bottle rocket is not a single pivot bike. i just thought it was a vpp as it was similar to a vp free (but now looking closely i can see it isnt)

Unsecure image, only https images allowed: http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/2350/224vr6.jpg
single pivot


Unsecure image, only https images allowed: http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/285/bottlerocketei8.png
i count 4 pivots

that transition only has 3. one of those is a chain guard.

There's a pivot behind that.

oh like under the BB. my bad
flag thom
Posted: Dec 6, 2007 at 15:06 Quote
maestroforlife wrote:
thom wrote:
Single pivot has nothing to do with the amount of pivots. it has to do with the amount of pivots bewteen the bottom bracket and the rear axle.

Transitions are single pivot bikes.
Kona's are single pivot bikes.

Kyle,

What if the pivot is on the dowtube of the frame in front of the BB...is that a no pivot?

I guess I could have explained that a little better. my bad Big Grin

Kyle,
flag djivotno
Posted: Dec 6, 2007 at 22:31 Quote
OK now the single pivot is a swing arm with the shock mounted between it and the main frame. Great for good shocks and bad for the nasty ones as the shock's damping is the only thing that controls it. The 4bar/4point suspension designs has many variations. We have the single pivot upgrade with the basic 4bar linkage basicly a swingarm with a set of links and plates that are there to modify the progression rate of the suspension. The shorter the shock plate [Commencal, RM, Turner] the steeper progression curve - easyer on the start of the stroke and harder to bottom, and the oposite - with the longer shock plate you get a more linear suspension feel and with say the same spring you'll get more of a platform on the begining of the stroke and easier to get through the travel.

With the link on the chainstay line tipo'o'suspension like the FSR/Horstlink on the Specialized bikes etc. and the more "advanced" (i'd say exaggerated) design of the VPP/DW/Maestro suspension design there is another variable added - chain tension. Here with the arrangement of the pivots you get the "climb" rate of the suspension (and that arrangement is what differs with the diferent designs) and when peddaling the way the rear extands allows it to provide a platform by sort of countering the suspension so it won't dive under pedaling. Depanding on the design that kind of suspension can (most of the times) get a more vertical axle path but as a guy named Turner say - it's not that much of a difference.

Now there is a third kind of desing not that popular with MTBs. The motolink 4poing suspension. Here again you have a swingarm with a link sistem that controls the stroke but the sistem allows for a fine tune of the shock and the feal through the travel of the rear end, as the shock plate is connected via the swing arm and not the main frame. That will mean that your lever between the rear and the front end of the bike that compresses the shock moves reletive to the shock mount. That will mean somthing like having a wood plank that is attached to the ground on one side has a shock in the middle and you on the other end. Single pivot Wink but if you allow the shock to move towards you for a bit it wont compress that much, but the leverige has changed so the suspension has been active but now the spring is harder to compress and you can't reach the end of the stroke that easy. So a platform shock on that design (FOX DHX / Manitou Swinger/Revox / X-Fusion something etc) will have that platform grow... overexpose so in the first part of the stroke you'll get a bit laggish suspension, in the middle it'll be active and still hard to bottom out in the end. All that withouthaving the chain tension in mind, so every time the same feel.

Ou.... i forgot about the americans (GT/Mongoose) Those are some nice ideas. They put the rider out of the equation. Now the Mongoose suspension design is based on a single pivot, and a shock plate mounted on the main frame but here's the twich. The most of the rider input is too mounted on that shock plate countering the suspension and as it has a small link between the swing arm and the shock plate the chain growth is less than 1/2 of an inch. The main thing is, that as the rider powers down the peddals the suspension tries to extand rather than compress thus creating a great platform if you have a shock set to faster rebound than the LS Comp/platform. The good thing gere is thet they can allow an otherwise annihilating pivot placement for the shock (easily bottomed) to work wonders. With the rider (sort of) out of the equation the suspension curve is very linear so if you seet on the saddle it'll likely go beyond half of the stroke, but when you stand on the pedals the suspension works lovely.

Same thing with the GT but a bit.... less exaggerated. Again a single pivot with the rider floating on between the two parts of the frame pushing down on both rather than pishing just one and helping gravity to bottom your suspension.

Deamn..... i'm late for work Jail ... whell bye Salute

 


Copyright © 2000 - 2024. Pinkbike.com. All rights reserved.
dv65 0.021127
Mobile Version of Website