Alternate suspensions designs besides single pivots

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Alternate suspensions designs besides single pivots
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flag signorvince2
Posted: Dec 6, 2007 at 22:34 Quote
ariadnacycles wrote:
I guess this is an apropriate place to ask this question.

What would this be? I'm pretty sure its a single pivot, but would it work, considering the frame was strong enough?

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Looking at your design, I could see some problems coming from th swingarm, especially where the axle is. I'd imagine that the leverage anf force from the wheel awould want to break the swingarm. Maybe pivots located near the axle (like right on top of it) and on the seat tube could reinforce it.

Just my .02

And the shock would have to be mounted more towards the headtube, in order for it to be in a direct line with the swingarm
flag spag
Posted: Dec 7, 2007 at 11:16 Quote
djivotno wrote:
OK now the single pivot is a swing arm with the shock mounted between it and the main frame. Great for good shocks and bad for the nasty ones as the shock's damping is the only thing that controls it. The 4bar/4point suspension designs has many variations. We have the single pivot upgrade with the basic 4bar linkage basicly a swingarm with a set of links and plates that are there to modify the progression rate of the suspension. The shorter the shock plate [Commencal, RM, Turner] the steeper progression curve - easyer on the start of the stroke and harder to bottom, and the oposite - with the longer shock plate you get a more linear suspension feel and with say the same spring you'll get more of a platform on the begining of the stroke and easier to get through the travel.

With the link on the chainstay line tipo'o'suspension like the FSR/Horstlink on the Specialized bikes etc. and the more "advanced" (i'd say exaggerated) design of the VPP/DW/Maestro suspension design there is another variable added - chain tension. Here with the arrangement of the pivots you get the "climb" rate of the suspension (and that arrangement is what differs with the diferent designs) and when peddaling the way the rear extands allows it to provide a platform by sort of countering the suspension so it won't dive under pedaling. Depanding on the design that kind of suspension can (most of the times) get a more vertical axle path but as a guy named Turner say - it's not that much of a difference.

Now there is a third kind of desing not that popular with MTBs. The motolink 4poing suspension. Here again you have a swingarm with a link sistem that controls the stroke but the sistem allows for a fine tune of the shock and the feal through the travel of the rear end, as the shock plate is connected via the swing arm and not the main frame. That will mean that your lever between the rear and the front end of the bike that compresses the shock moves reletive to the shock mount. That will mean somthing like having a wood plank that is attached to the ground on one side has a shock in the middle and you on the other end. Single pivot Wink but if you allow the shock to move towards you for a bit it wont compress that much, but the leverige has changed so the suspension has been active but now the spring is harder to compress and you can't reach the end of the stroke that easy. So a platform shock on that design (FOX DHX / Manitou Swinger/Revox / X-Fusion something etc) will have that platform grow... overexpose so in the first part of the stroke you'll get a bit laggish suspension, in the middle it'll be active and still hard to bottom out in the end. All that withouthaving the chain tension in mind, so every time the same feel.

Ou.... i forgot about the americans (GT/Mongoose) Those are some nice ideas. They put the rider out of the equation. Now the Mongoose suspension design is based on a single pivot, and a shock plate mounted on the main frame but here's the twich. The most of the rider input is too mounted on that shock plate countering the suspension and as it has a small link between the swing arm and the shock plate the chain growth is less than 1/2 of an inch. The main thing is, that as the rider powers down the peddals the suspension tries to extand rather than compress thus creating a great platform if you have a shock set to faster rebound than the LS Comp/platform. The good thing gere is thet they can allow an otherwise annihilating pivot placement for the shock (easily bottomed) to work wonders. With the rider (sort of) out of the equation the suspension curve is very linear so if you seet on the saddle it'll likely go beyond half of the stroke, but when you stand on the pedals the suspension works lovely.

Same thing with the GT but a bit.... less exaggerated. Again a single pivot with the rider floating on between the two parts of the frame pushing down on both rather than pishing just one and helping gravity to bottom your suspension.

Deamn..... i'm late for work Jail ... whell bye Salute
Beer
flag t3aSeR
Posted: Dec 12, 2007 at 4:54 Quote
vinceliberatore wrote:
KoNa-4-Lif wrote:
fuzzdh wrote:
ok sorry i didnt know vpp stood for 'virtual' point pivot, i thought it was 'variable', but anywa,t a bottle rocket is not a single pivot bike. i just thought it was a vpp as it was similar to a vp free (but now looking closely i can see it isnt)

Unsecure image, only https images allowed: http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/2350/224vr6.jpg
single pivot


Unsecure image, only https images allowed: http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/285/bottlerocketei8.png
i count 4 pivots

that transition only has 3. one of those is a chain guard.

Actually there is 4, you can't see one becasue the mrp is in the way. But it behaves like a single pivot wiht a swing link, kinda like kona's are 4-bar bikes and single pivots (just with a rocker link)

It may behave like a single pivot, but that doesn't mean it is a single pivot.
The Cannondale Judge is more of a single pivot, but still not a true single pivot, because it has a link. Yeti 303's are the same.
flag spag
Posted: Dec 12, 2007 at 8:39 Quote
t3aSeR wrote:
vinceliberatore wrote:
KoNa-4-Lif wrote:


that transition only has 3. one of those is a chain guard.

Actually there is 4, you can't see one becasue the mrp is in the way. But it behaves like a single pivot wiht a swing link, kinda like kona's are 4-bar bikes and single pivots (just with a rocker link)

It may behave like a single pivot, but that doesn't mean it is a single pivot.
The Cannondale Judge is more of a single pivot, but still not a true single pivot, because it has a link. Yeti 303's are the same.

The yeti 303 is not a single pivot!!!!! if you have actually seen a yeti 303 in real life you would know that.

most of the time when anyone refers to a single pivot they are talking about how the pivot affects the well and not how it affects the shock... thats y there are single pivots and single pivots with linkages
flag t3aSeR
Posted: Dec 12, 2007 at 9:36 Quote
spag wrote:
t3aSeR wrote:
vinceliberatore wrote:


Actually there is 4, you can't see one becasue the mrp is in the way. But it behaves like a single pivot wiht a swing link, kinda like kona's are 4-bar bikes and single pivots (just with a rocker link)

It may behave like a single pivot, but that doesn't mean it is a single pivot.
The Cannondale Judge is more of a single pivot, but still not a true single pivot, because it has a link. Yeti 303's are the same.

The yeti 303 is not a single pivot!!!!! if you have actually seen a yeti 303 in real life you would know that.

most of the time when anyone refers to a single pivot they are talking about how the pivot affects the well and not how it affects the shock... thats y there are single pivots and single pivots with linkages

Oh, sorry. I haven't seen a Yeti 303 in real life, but some other guy earlier in this thread said that 303's are single pivots. My bad.
flag sonicsloth
Posted: Mar 10, 2009 at 6:21 Quote
t3aSeR wrote:
vinceliberatore wrote:
KoNa-4-Lif wrote:


that transition only has 3. one of those is a chain guard.

Actually there is 4, you can't see one becasue the mrp is in the way. But it behaves like a single pivot wiht a swing link, kinda like kona's are 4-bar bikes and single pivots (just with a rocker link)

It may behave like a single pivot, but that doesn't mean it is a single pivot.
The Cannondale Judge is more of a single pivot, but still not a true single pivot, because it has a link. Yeti 303's are the same.

why are there so many people that are convinced the definition of a single pivot frame is that it only has one pivot? a single pivot frame is a frame with a single pivot affecting the rear axel movement. bottle rockets and konas a single-pivot bikes. no matter how many pivots the frames have.
flag pbuser102331
Posted: Mar 10, 2009 at 6:24 Quote
people tend to forget the linkage activated shock bit.
flag yo13bo
Posted: Apr 22, 2009 at 3:17 Quote
i couldnt be bothered going through these pages but the karpiel apocalypse dual shock design is pretty awesome Unsecure image, only https images allowed: http://media.photobucket.com/image/karpiel%20apocalypse/acdcfan1283/apocalypse%20for%20u%20people%20who%20want%202%20see%20it/bikepics001.jpg
flag connen31
Posted: Apr 22, 2009 at 4:55 Quote
sonicsloth wrote:
t3aSeR wrote:
vinceliberatore wrote:


Actually there is 4, you can't see one becasue the mrp is in the way. But it behaves like a single pivot wiht a swing link, kinda like kona's are 4-bar bikes and single pivots (just with a rocker link)

It may behave like a single pivot, but that doesn't mean it is a single pivot.
The Cannondale Judge is more of a single pivot, but still not a true single pivot, because it has a link. Yeti 303's are the same.

why are there so many people that are convinced the definition of a single pivot frame is that it only has one pivot? a single pivot frame is a frame with a single pivot affecting the rear axel movement. bottle rockets and konas a single-pivot bikes. no matter how many pivots the frames have.

^^^ completly agreed, though if you wnat to be exact the orange has 3 pivots (one main as previously showed and one at each end of the shock) but as it only one significant pivet and therefore it is named a single pivet.
flag
Posted: Apr 22, 2009 at 6:35 Quote
This is my Single Pivot bike, Ive used it for downhill, freeride, dj's, and everything else, great bike.
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