Capital Punishment: Yay or Nay?

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Capital Punishment: Yay or Nay?
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Posted: Nov 6, 2009 at 20:18 Quote
Death Penalty.

whats everyone's opinions?

Posted: Nov 7, 2009 at 12:16 Quote
Nay.

(Waits for the neoconservative brigade to arrive and trample on his socialist opinions)

Posted: Nov 7, 2009 at 16:08 Quote
I vote Yay... Not every can be rehabilitated...

Posted: Nov 8, 2009 at 20:23 Quote
In it's ideal: Yay.

Saves time, money, and provides closure.

In reality: No.

It is FAR cheaper to house someone in prison in the US than it is to execute them.

Posted: Nov 8, 2009 at 20:48 Quote
I say yay for sure. But it needs to be far more cost efficient. If someone is found guilty of a serious crime, then shoot them in the back of the head. One officer, one gun and one bullet. I hate knowing that money from my paycheck goes to feed, clothe, and house convicted serial killers.

Posted: Nov 8, 2009 at 21:03 Quote
Yay, some crimes are just absolutely attrocious and the individual is just to sick mentally.

Posted: Nov 9, 2009 at 7:00 Quote
Isn't the whole point of a rational justice system not to let irrational, emotionally-driven "that's sick" mentality decide punishment?

Also, Josh... I'd agree that not everyone can be rehabilitated.... for example the mentally ill. Is it therefore OK (as Lights seems to suggest) to execute the mentally ill (say, a schizophrenic)? If so, why is there a possibility of claiming insanity in the USA?

Posted: Nov 9, 2009 at 9:21 Quote
harriieee wrote:
Isn't the whole point of a rational justice system not to let irrational, emotionally-driven "that's sick" mentality decide punishment?

Also, Josh... I'd agree that not everyone can be rehabilitated.... for example the mentally ill. Is it therefore OK (as Lights seems to suggest) to execute the mentally ill (say, a schizophrenic)? If so, why is there a possibility of claiming insanity in the USA?

I think he was talking about those individuals who won't stop committing a heinous crime, and not those who are mentally disabled. Rapists, killers, etc.

Posted: Nov 9, 2009 at 11:24 Quote
But rational (as much as I hate to say it) has to be thrown out the window sometimes... Some crimes just show a flippant disregard for human life and I believe we should not bother trying to make them better... If they are mentally ill get them the help they need but if not just get rid of them... Cut off the weakest link of society...

I would feel a lot safer knowing people being convicted of these types of murders over and over again are "put down" rather than getting parole (which lets face it happens WAY to often)

Posted: Nov 9, 2009 at 13:10 Quote
I just hate the idea of the state getting to decide who lives and who dies. If you ask me, a government, a country, should never give up on one of its own. I cannot countenance that fact, and I'm not even completely sure why.

I don't particularly want to talk about the USA here necessarily as we've mentioned that before and you've stated that you think it's to do with the people who live there, I think it's to do with gun control. I don't pretend to know the answer, but I'm just not clear about the type of people we're talking about here. People like to use the example of real sick mother f*ckers for reinforcing the death penalty. The Charles Manson or Ed Gein type, or Fred West or Myra Hindley over here. The fact is they're all products of what has happened to them. Manson was born to a 16-year-old waitress who once sold him for alcohol, and said that he had one happy memory from his entire childhood. Gein's father was a violent alcoholic. All suffered child abuse when they were young. So (and Vince is going to drill me for this now) where's the line? How are they not mentally ill? When and at what stage are people responsible for their actions?

Posted: Nov 9, 2009 at 14:03 Quote
most serial killers are sane. in order to be legally insane you essentially have to not know the difference between right and wrong. look at Vince Li, the guy who decapitated a stranger on a Grey Hound bus. literally everyone wanted him to be executed but because he was Schizophrenic he honestly thought that the man he was sitting beside was a demon, and the only way to prevent him from coming back from the dead (after he stabbed him) was to decapitate and begin to eat his flesh. If serial killers were insane they wouldn't go through such preventive measures in order not to get caught. Most serial killers do it for self-gain, which is usually in the form of the ultimate power trip.

Posted: Nov 9, 2009 at 14:06 Quote
So full-on psychosis is the dividing line?

Posted: Nov 9, 2009 at 14:11 Quote
pretty much. though i will agree with you in saying that its pretty hard to say if a serial killer is sane or not. look at Jeffrey Dahmer for example. he would get gay men into his apparent, drug them, rape them, torture them, then finally kill them. then post-mortem he would try to bring them back as "sex zombies" by injecting poison into their brains, he also mummified heads and genitals, collected organs and skulls in order to make a Shrine to get closer to evil, had sex with the dead bodies, even after they began decomposing, etc. if that doesn't qualify as insane i don't know what does.

Posted: Nov 9, 2009 at 14:17 Quote
odin333 wrote:
most serial killers are sane. in order to be legally insane you essentially have to not know the difference between right and wrong. look at Vince Li, the guy who decapitated a stranger on a Grey Hound bus. literally everyone wanted him to be executed but because he was Schizophrenic he honestly thought that the man he was sitting beside was a demon, and the only way to prevent him from coming back from the dead (after he stabbed him) was to decapitate and begin to eat his flesh. If serial killers were insane they wouldn't go through such preventive measures in order not to get caught. Most serial killers do it for self-gain, which is usually in the form of the ultimate power trip.

Sorry, i'm gonna hijack the topic for a sec here.

About the Greyhound incident. My old managers mother is a cop and she apparently had something to do with the case. What I heard happenned was Vince(the schizophrenic) was sitting beside a girl on the bus. The girl was apparently all f*cked on E and they started talking. She was talking about how her boyfriend and her were having some sort of fight. Her boyfriend was sitting somewhere else on the bus and was essentially the victim later on. So I guess what happenned is they started talking and the girl was bad mouthing her boyfriend and Vince decided it would be the right thing to kill this man.

Anyways. Every story has 2 sides. This is just one I was told.

Posted: Nov 9, 2009 at 15:11 Quote
harriieee wrote:
I just hate the idea of the state getting to decide who lives and who dies. If you ask me, a government, a country, should never give up on one of its own. I cannot countenance that fact, and I'm not even completely sure why.

I don't particularly want to talk about the USA here necessarily as we've mentioned that before and you've stated that you think it's to do with the people who live there, I think it's to do with gun control. I don't pretend to know the answer, but I'm just not clear about the type of people we're talking about here. People like to use the example of real sick mother f*ckers for reinforcing the death penalty. The Charles Manson or Ed Gein type, or Fred West or Myra Hindley over here. The fact is they're all products of what has happened to them. Manson was born to a 16-year-old waitress who once sold him for alcohol, and said that he had one happy memory from his entire childhood. Gein's father was a violent alcoholic. All suffered child abuse when they were young. So (and Vince is going to drill me for this now) where's the line? How are they not mentally ill? When and at what stage are people responsible for their actions?

Your not gonna like what I have to say...

But thats just the way it goes... I believe its for the greater good of society to rid ourselves of these people... Your argument can be made for people living in poverty as well... most any social problem has underlying roots... Getting at those roots is damn near impossible... Hopefully now we are able to see these problem (especially child abuse) so upcoming generations will not be as bad off...

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