Single pivot vs. Dual pivot

PB Forum :: Downhill
Single pivot vs. Dual pivot
Author Message
Posted: May 6, 2010 at 19:36 Quote
nz-ripn, buddy you should have taken time to read through the thread as there has been many a explanation as to what a single pivot is. I understand that you just wanted to know if your buddy was correct but this is pinkbike where 90% of anything typed has been entered with haste, hence the responses.

Posted: May 7, 2010 at 9:51 Quote
Look man, you lashed out at me before you ever posted a link. And did you ever think i had just signed up for pinkbike? I've been racing since i was 13 (28 now), just because i don't post a bunch of pics doesn't mean i dont ride/race. Your orig post, to me, seemed ignorant, since there was what, 8 pages explaining exactly what a single pivot is? take a sedative and calm down

Posted: May 7, 2010 at 10:37 Quote
nz-ripn wrote:
Speedgoat9 wrote:
Thanks draco,

Apparently I'm an a-hole because the guy can't read a thread and comprehend the content. I guess ignorance is bliss...

Oh and NZ-rpin...your cove shocker is a SINGLE PIVOT

(lets see how long it takes him to get the sarcasim)Beer

I wasn't saying the intense was single pivot, I was asking, as stated in the link another person was saying it was single pivot! If you bothered to read the comments on the link then you would see why i was asking cause i wanted to prove him wrong but he wouldn't listen. So I came here to ask if it was single pivot as he was 100 percent sure it was but you people obviously just wanna laugh about it. ooh and at least I can ride unlike you all u have is pictures of your bike, not even riding it.

Ok, you're an ass, and because you went to the time to try to justify it, WITHOUT APOLOGIZING FOR BEING RUDE, I'm gonna show you why you are an ass... and then follow through on my word.

Hopefully you will learn, that being as a*shole is not going to get you anywhere:

nz-ripn wrote:
i want to know if the intense 951 is a single pivot because some guy said it was but im unsure about this and would like to know

That sure sounds like you don't know the answer. And even if you did, and were doing it for 'effect', then you still ripped into everyone at a level uncalled for.

Which brings us back on point-



you didn't apologize.
And I don't like that.

**and it appears none of the other moderators like what you've done in the past. And the last warning said 'no more warnings'

You're gone.

Posted: May 12, 2010 at 1:26 Quote
draco wrote:
^^ I too would have claimed trollin'... But that is a multi-pivot set up.. in case you had not noticed the exceptional amount of pivots located... everywhere.

I honestly thought he was joking...after 9 or so pages of debate it looked like sarcasm lol

Posted: May 12, 2010 at 8:28 Quote
Reading this thread will reduce your IQ by 20 points

its fecking shocking

Posted: Oct 24, 2012 at 16:21 Quote
J44ride wrote:
I'm trying to decide between a 2012 cove shocker, and a 2013 Giant glory for technical dh, and some jumps. Which is better a single pivot or a dual pivot?

None are single pivot, they are both variations on VPP or DW link. They are both highly regarded bikes as far as I have heard.

Posted: Oct 25, 2012 at 10:47 Quote
^^Those are all established bikes with reputable riding characteristics. Can't really go wrong with any kind of "choice" like that. Don't worry too much on "single pivots" or "+2 Pivots systems". Just test them out, or read reviews/watch videos.

You'll see there are a certain class of bikes that are just renowned for their performance in DH/FR/Racing Environment:

Cove Shocker
Giant Glory
Specialized Demo
Santa Cruz V-10
Transition TR-450
Pivot Phoenix
Evil Revolt (rare, they just look sick..)
Trek Session 9.9/88
Intense M9 FRO (Personally I don't like Intense's "FRO"...it's a bs marketing label to let them make less durable bikes, you do still get 2 year warranty to be fair..that's if it's "not" your "fault".)
Devinci Wilson
GT Fury
Iron Horse Sunday
Yeti 303RDH + New WC
Norco
Kona
Orange
Corsair? (Gone?)
And there's a few other ones. But that should be the general list.

Posted: Oct 27, 2012 at 2:44 Quote
Here is a little break down:
- four bar will cause suspension to seize under braking and will bob when pedalling
- fsr will always be active, even under braking, but will bob when pedalling with a progressive rate compression
- virtual pivot will always be active, even under braking, but will bob when pedalling with a falling rate compression
- single pivot will cause suspension to seize under braking and will bob when pedalling with a progressive rate compression
- altering leverage ratio (extra linkages) can reduce bob when pedalling, but add weight and fatigue points
- split pivot can prevent suspension from seizing under braking
- floating shock can prevent bob when pedalling
- progressive rate compression gets harder through the travel to prevent bottom out
- falling rate compression get softers through the travel to keep suspension plush over small bumps

-four bar- (rear pivot above axle)
kona operator
ellsworth dare
*common design for mass market bikes*

-fsr- (rear pivot below axle)
specialized demo
norco aurum
knolly podium (altered leverage ratio)

-virtual pivot- (link behind bottom bracket connecting to chain stays)
giant glory
cove shocker
intense m9
santa cruz v10
banshee legend
turner dhr
*any bikes with dw-link*

-single pivot- (no rear pivot near the axle)
orange 322
gt fury
transition tr450 (altered leverage ratio)
scott gambler (altered leverage ratio)
nukeproof scalp (altered leverage ratio)
rocky mountain flatline (altered leverage ratio)

-odd balls-
trek session (split pivot with floating shock) - rear pivot is the axle and shock moves with motion
commencal vtt supreme (four bar with floating shock) - rear pivot is above the axle and shock moves against motion
evil revolt (single pivot with floating shock) - shock moves against motion
devinci wilson (virtual pivot with split pivot) - rear pivot is the axle and there is a link behind the bottom bracket
yeti 303 wc (sliding single pivot) - rear stays slide to create leverage ratio change

ultimately whats going to be the best is a bike that minimizes pedal bob, that won't seize the suspension up under braking, will have a linear compression rate that is a little progressive at the end and a little falling rate at the beginning of the stroke, will be fairly light, not have too many pivots that require maintenance and ideally is fairly priced. It comes down to whats important to you though, trying one of each style and a couple of the odd balls should make picking a bike quite easy once a basic understanding of each is developed.

Posted: Aug 7, 2013 at 5:25 Quote
[Quote="J44ride"][Quote="ohklee"]Here is a little break down:
- four bar will cause suspension to seize under braking and will bob when pedalling
- fsr will always be active, even under braking, but will bob when pedalling with a progressive rate compression
- virtual pivot will always be active, even under braking, but will bob when pedalling with a falling rate compression
- single pivot will cause suspension to seize under braking and will bob when pedalling with a progressive rate compression
ohklee wrote:

What does progressive rate compression mean compared to falling rate compression??

Just read the bit you quoted a couple of lines further.
If you had quoted the whole paragraph you would have answered your own question!

Posted: Aug 8, 2013 at 14:17 Quote
ohklee wrote:
Here is a little break down:
- four bar will cause suspension to seize under braking and will bob when pedalling
- fsr will always be active, even under braking, but will bob when pedalling with a progressive rate compression
- virtual pivot will always be active, even under braking, but will bob when pedalling with a falling rate compression
- single pivot will cause suspension to seize under braking and will bob when pedalling with a progressive rate compression
- altering leverage ratio (extra linkages) can reduce bob when pedalling, but add weight and fatigue points
- split pivot can prevent suspension from seizing under braking
- floating shock can prevent bob when pedalling
- progressive rate compression gets harder through the travel to prevent bottom out
- falling rate compression get softers through the travel to keep suspension plush over small bumps

-four bar- (rear pivot above axle)
kona operator
ellsworth dare
*common design for mass market bikes*

-fsr- (rear pivot below axle)
specialized demo
norco aurum
knolly podium (altered leverage ratio)

-virtual pivot- (link behind bottom bracket connecting to chain stays)
giant glory
cove shocker
intense m9
santa cruz v10
banshee legend
turner dhr
*any bikes with dw-link*

-single pivot- (no rear pivot near the axle)
orange 322
gt fury
transition tr450 (altered leverage ratio)
scott gambler (altered leverage ratio)
nukeproof scalp (altered leverage ratio)
rocky mountain flatline (altered leverage ratio)

-odd balls-
trek session (split pivot with floating shock) - rear pivot is the axle and shock moves with motion
commencal vtt supreme (four bar with floating shock) - rear pivot is above the axle and shock moves against motion
evil revolt (single pivot with floating shock) - shock moves against motion
devinci wilson (virtual pivot with split pivot) - rear pivot is the axle and there is a link behind the bottom bracket
yeti 303 wc (sliding single pivot) - rear stays slide to create leverage ratio change

ultimately whats going to be the best is a bike that minimizes pedal bob, that won't seize the suspension up under braking, will have a linear compression rate that is a little progressive at the end and a little falling rate at the beginning of the stroke, will be fairly light, not have too many pivots that require maintenance and ideally is fairly priced. It comes down to whats important to you though, trying one of each style and a couple of the odd balls should make picking a bike quite easy once a basic understanding of each is developed.

Single Pivot does not lock up when braking. Not even when you lock the wheel while braking. Popular myth:
old Supreme, Gambler and Foes deliver some of the subtlest ground hugging of all bikes out there.

Virtual pivot is still a single pivot. It just modifies the arc the suspension travels through a tiny bit:
Intense has it down to an art.

Oddballs are trying to modify a perceived flaw in suspension arc with how a damper functions or are there to circumvent a patent. Usually clumsy and maintenance nightmares. Spec, Giant, new Supreme, Norco are a mess. Only Yeti got it right, conceptionally, not engineeringwise.

Bob is not an issue with a downhill bike. Linear suspension action and modifying it through damper is proper way to do it. Most of your concerns have to do how an AM suspension should work. And that arena is really a big mess of dogma, marketing and lousy design circling around wobbly 4 bars. Dh is non compromise suspension design with easy maintenance.

Posted: Aug 12, 2013 at 17:35 Quote
Whoever gravedug this thread should be banned.

Posted: Aug 12, 2013 at 17:39 Quote
erikthefatty wrote:
Whoever gravedug this thread should be banned.


'tis an abomination, to be sure

Posted: Aug 12, 2013 at 17:48 Quote
J44ride wrote:

This guy


 
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