1 Question - What's Going on With 27.5+?
When 27.5+ bikes first began to emerge the mountain bike industry's hype machine went into overdrive, and no matter where you turned there were articles and advertisements heralding the arrival of “the next big thing.” The funny thing was, it had never seemed like there was much consumer demand for wider rims shod with not-quite-fat-bike sized rubber. After all, consumers' heads were still spinning from the instruction of Boost spacing – adding what seemed like another new wheelsize into the mix didn't do much to help matters.
Plus seemed to pop up from nowhere, and countless companies hopped on board, likely driven in part by the fear of being left behind. Two years later, it seems as if the pendulum has begun to swing back, and Plus bikes are now positioned more as an option for hardtails or for intermediate riders looking for a more stable ride rather than being the “best of both worlds.”
The introduction of wider tires and rims hasn't been for naught, though; if you look around at what's being spec'd on 'regular' bikes these days you'll see more 2.4” and 2.5” tires than ever before, and 2.6” tires are are also becoming increasingly common. Plus seems to have served as the bridge that spanned the gap between 27.5” and 29” wheeled bikes, and while the spotlight may have shifted its focus, what's left is a market that's chock full of bikes with good tire clearance and a large range of wide, aggressive tread patterns to go with them. To dive deeper into the topic, I reached out to a selection of industry insiders and ask them to for their thoughts about what the future holds for 27.5+.
Julian Wagner – Scott Sports, Bike Marketing
 | The hype being gone means that in the industry, it has more or less become a norm. Does a wide tire now need a name like “Plus?” Probably not. Originally around the 3.0-3.25” mark, when these started surfacing it was a drastically larger size that what was commonly “acceptable” for an MTB tire at the time – hence the need for a “name.” However, we think it is more important nowadays to talk about actual tire width in mm instead of tire size, as now every brand’s actual width in mm relative to their “size” is different. In general, we’ve found that for a large percentage of consumers, a wider tire on a trail bike will be beneficial. With advancements in tire manufacturing, and with larger rim profiles, we think the benefit for most is pretty evident, and it seems the market is responding accordingly. In the past, we never had larger than a 2.8” on our bikes. But that 2.8” was much larger than what we are currently putting on our bikes- perhaps too large looking back. Often times technology comes out at an extreme, and over time settles into a sweet spot. Our trail bike segment includes bike models designed to comfortably fit anything in the 63mm plus or minus 2mm zone (with a 30mm inner width rim), as we think for these bikes’ intended use, this is that sweet spot. In this range, for example, you have a 2.5” Minion DHF WT, a 2.8” Recon, a 2.6” Nobby Nic and even a 2.6” Magic Mary. Beyond trail bikes, will we see larger tires in racing? Perhaps. We do know that guys in many disciplines, Nino for instance, are testing wider and wider tires and liking it. However, this happening depends on a few factors moving forward, most notably tire design and quality. |
Bobby Brown – Maxxis Tires, Marketing Specialist
| The plus bike platform is definitely not going anywhere but, like many aspects of this industry, it’s very regionally focused. We have found from speaking with riders and OE partners all over the country and around the world that some markets have been quick to adopt the plus bike platform, while others prefer narrower tires for slotting through rock notches and other precision handling maneuvers. In particular, we are finding that markets with a lot of loose-over-hard or rough-but-not-sharp terrain are drawn to the plus platform due to these tires’ capacity for handling marbles, goatheads, roots, and other bumpy terrain. And then you have Aggy, who had been bugging us to make true 2.8” Minions for years (not your father’s 26x2.7 DHF), running them at the most recent Rampage at the first opportunity. Fat bike experimentation led to plus bikes, which then fueled a general trend toward trail riders and even XC racers moving to wider and wider tires. Luckily, many of the technological advancements toward lighter rims and tires allowed both to grow together without the end user hanging much extra weight onto their bike, compared to the amount of extra confidence gained with a wider rim and tire setup. We will continue to see bikes that serve dual-duty as 27.5+/29 or 26+/27.5. These bikes are perfect for riders who may want to have both a party-pace wheelset and a race wheelset. These bikes also allow for a rider’s skills to develop over time. As frame design has evolved, we’ve seen that plus tires perform better on shorter travel bikes, allowing ride quality and confidence-inspiring performance similar to that of a longer-legged bike. As a tire manufacturer, we can add technologies to our tires to alter the dampening characteristics of the carcass, but at the end of the day, your suspension will do a much better job of managing chassis stability following the initial bump force than the tires. Ultimately, wider tires are better for heavier loads, and we expect to see many more e-bikes and bikepacking bikes adopt the platform as compared to longer travel trail and enduro bikes. |
Clayton Wangbichler – WTB, Public Relations and Content Editor
| It makes sense that hype around plus-bikes is diminishing as new waves of enticing products roll in. Something can only be 'the next big thing' while it's new and innovative. Dropper posts were "the next big thing" when they first came out, but now they're simply dropper posts. We don't discount their relevance simply because they're not the new, hot shit. New is where the hype will always be (enter aggressive long-travel 29ers in 2017). Nobody gets excited about a company coming out with a plus-size bike, because they expect it rather than being awed by and spreading buzz about it. Simply put, for something to last through a few years in the bike industry and still have demand (offerings from nearly every bike manufacturer is the proof here), there must be something about it that riders desire and are wanting more of. That may not mean it's for every person or that it'll be the new norm for folks to fall upon, but it seems to be sticking around for a reason. Some folks have truly found increased traction and confidence with higher volume and a larger contact patch. Plus-size tires have also earned a diehard following among bikepackers for the added traction and forgiveness over varied terrain throughout long days/weeks/months in the saddle. Bikepackers will be reaping the benefits of plus-size tires for years and years and years to come. We at WTB have learned a lot since we introduced the first 27.5+ tire three years ago and we'll continue to refine our approach to plus-size tires in the same way and momentum that we do on our traditional 2.2-2.5 tires. For example, minimizing weight was a major focus when introducing the first plus-size tires, but we've realized that a more supportive (aka less squirmy) and durable casing dramatically improves the overall ride quality compared to the weight benefits of a comparably lighter plus-size tire. Opinions aside, numbers speak louder than words. Our sales of plus-size tires (2.8+) and rims (i35 and greater) have doubled since last season. One-third of our AFM rims sales are in the plus-size range as well. Don't forget about Road Plus as well, which is proving that many folks are wanting more volume on bikes of every discipline. Plus-size tires may eventually see a drop in interest, only time will tell, but it certainly hasn't happened in 2017 and we don't expect it to throughout 2018 either. We won't likely see them on the bikes that end up leaned against podiums, nor do we suggest that they're the ideal tire width range for truly aggressive riding, which is far different from the category of riding with aggressive intent. Our riding community as a whole determines what stays and goes, not the smaller niches that we often focus on. |
Travis Ott – Trek Bicycles, MTB Brand Manager
| The funny thing about hype is that it doesn’t always have a direct correlation to reality. Mid-fat tires were never going to replace 2.3-2.4” tires. Trek took a measured approach to 27.5+ tires and that proved to be the right approach. There’s no denying the extra traction and confidence mid-fat tires provide riders. As such, mid-fat tires have found their place on electric-assist mountain bikes, select full suspension trail bikes, and trail hardtails. We think these categories will continue to be viable categories for 27.5+. |
Don Palermini – Santa Cruz Bicycles, North American Marketing Manager
| Plus is a pretty interesting topic...early on the Hightower booked in Plus configurations at a much higher ratio than we thought it would--it was close to 50/50 at the start. At the time I think there was a lot of hype and interest about the tire size and lots of people were "Plus curious," if you will. With the Hightower being truly convertible to 29 with its hi/lo flip chip, I think most people felt it was pretty low risk--if they didn't like it, going 29 was just a matter of getting another wheelset. Of late, most of our Hightowers are selling as 29ers straight out of the shop. I think most riders are choosing the speed and responsiveness of 29 over the extra grip and cush of Plus. Anecdotally we hear from a fair number of riders who go back and forth depending on conditions--some like the extra confidence of Plus when things get blown out and dry, but ride 29 when trail conditions are good. We also hear from riders who use Plus in winter conditions. Personally, I made it a point to spend time on both wheel configurations and I found things to like about it either way. Ultimately, I find that 29 suits most of the riding I like to do best, but I like having the option to go Plus if I get a wild hair and want to ride somewhere loose and sandy. We also offer the shorter travel Tallboy and Juliana Joplin in 29 or 27.5+, and for the Tallboy, about 90 percent of them sell as 29ers. The Joplin--a women's bike which shares the same chassis with a slightly different component spec--has booked as a Plus bike at a higher percentage. But even there, we're mostly selling it as a 29er. On the hardtail side of things, our latest Chameleon is sold as a Plus bike about 75% of the time, which makes sense on a number of levels--it helps take the edge off the trail, and newer riders tend to buy that bike, and I think they feel more confident on Plus. It definitely seems like hardtails are a more viable platform for Plus long-term. Since Plus debuted we've seen some tire development, but there's still a struggle between weight, durability and tread that probably needs some more work. We've also seen the advent of "wide trail" that almost gets you there with widths up to 2.6-inches and less of the other issues, which probably takes away some of Plus' fire power. |
Sean Estes – Specialized Bicycles, Global PR Manager
| We believe in the benefits of wide, large-volume tires; as evidenced by the fact we were early adopters and one of the first to offer what we called “6fattie” (which I admit was a pretty corny play on words. But hey, it was still better than our “Cobble Gobbler” seatpost, right?!) Because we knew riders might be reluctant to try a new standard – especially if it came with a weight penalty – our goal was to keep the system weight in line with current 29x2.3” offerings. This meant our first gen of 650x3.0” tires were not as durable as our current offerings, which weigh a hundred or so grams more but offer greatly improved puncture protection and sidewall support. Anyway, getting back to the original question… I don’t know if I’d go so far as to say the hype has diminished, it’s probably more accurate to say that the Plus trend has established that large volume is a good thing, which paved the way for the now extremely popular 2.6 & 2.8” tires that we are seeing on so many 650 bikes, and the 2.5” and larger tires we are seeing on 29ers as well. Long live large volume! |
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Filter out the hype and marketing BS I see some real benefits to Plus (or just slightly wider tyres if you don't want to give it a name). It's the reason Surly invented them in the first place.
And how many of these new standards are ACTUALLY benifittial to riding......
Or just making bikes dedicated to proprietary systems so you can't cross from one companies parts to another, one bike to another?
Sure there have been massive improvements since the days of rim brakes an square taper BB axles, threaded one inch H'sets but, your comment is null and void
Dear Mike, too many niches, too many new standards in a very few years!! No industry is doing this (and for a good reason!). How many wheels sizes have been "invented" for the road bikes since they started? In MTB I am almost suggested to change wheels every 100 m. the terrain changes. Such a diversification, is good for your writing but both the riders and the industry are in a trap they created.
No. It's the same fun.
We should have stuck with 26".
All these new sizes just serve to elevate prices.
Choice is nice, but the fun is the same fun. I would be happy to have the same fun on a 26er, especially if the price was half of what they're currently charging for bikes.
I like new tech, but I don't like iterative improvements enough to feel they are worth the money. Tooling costs money. Marketing costs money. This plus BS, among other things, is affecting pricing.
The fun is the same fun. Put the brakes on the worthless developments, please! Focus on driving prices down, and service intervals up!
Those days coming to an end isnt gonna be good for consumers, Or small parts companies that now have to tool/work in countless standards. Especialy when the just make thier product work with multiple standards with converters, sometimes negating the suposed benifits of said standard coughBoostcough!pluscough!
"The funny thing was, it had never seemed like there was much consumer demand for wider rims shod with not-quite-fat-bike sized rubber. After all, consumers' heads were still spinning from the instruction of Boost spacing – adding what seemed like another new wheelsize into the mix didn't do much to help matters."
There's the "problem" you guys speak of
2015 frame bought in November 2016,
I just today got some 2016 IXS DH pants for £19 reduced from £110.... Such a good deal I got two
After years of bmx I can tell you The MTB industry is fkng crazy. Ridiculous mark ups? Yeah new standards every 5 fkng minutes will do that. But hey, keep buying in to the latest trends an overpriced bull, leaves more bargains for me
I for one welcome new technology, options and progression in the sport.
Consumer wallets dictate the market, not the industry. Since day one there have always been people that bitch about everything new. If those people had their way we would all be on rim brake, full rigid single speed bikes with 26x1.8" tires.
Thank you once again for that!!!!
That single ride made me completely obsessed with biking when it used to be just another outdoor hobby of mine. Now it is the only thing I want to do.
You will always have options. You don't have to buy plus bikes or whatever, but when manufacturers try changing things instead of STAGNATING, we end up with better gear that results in funner rides and I am all about having fun on my bike.
Why yes, yes they have.
I’m actually having way more fun then I used to and I credit the technology upgrades for being a major part of that.
Where I live a lot of the best trails are pedal access, so 10 years ago I either had to choose between pushing a big heavy downhill bike up the mountain to shred my favorite trails or pedal up an under gunned trail bike that was going to get beaten up and break.
Thanks to the progress the bike industry has made, I can now easily pedal up a trail shredding machine and bomb down the hill faster than I ever could with a much lower chance of anything breaking. I call that some pretty amazing progress and I also think its way more fun.
Yeah, I’m not a big fan of how they are progressing at such an incremental rate that your new bike is out dated mere months after you bought it, but my approach is to buy a bike with all the latest and greatest technology, ride it like it’s stolen for 3 or 4 years and then buy the new latest and greatest. I make a point of not getting too worked up about what the new tech is out until I’m actually ready to buy a bike and I just enjoy what I am currently riding.
As for your complaints of cost. If you actually compare a high end bike from 10 years ago to a lower end bike now, the lower end bike is much cheaper and far more capable. We are getting way more value than we ever have. Yes, if you want the best possible bike they have gone stupid expensive, but nobody said you have to buy the absolute best bike. The low end to mid-range bikes coming out these days are seriously impressive.
Yes, standards change, but for the better. Without progress companies would just be selling the exact same bike for 15 years.
Change is good, you just need to pick what is right for you and spend your money wisely. There is a lot of good stuff at reasonable prices if you don't mind not having the bling factor.
It's really time for everyone just to be happy and ride the stuff they have until it's clapped out instead of keeping up with the trends.
It's only a scam if you participate in it, so literally, go out and buy the bike you want, not the one you feel someone is telling you to want.
How much have the roads that road cyclists ride changed since they started? No wonder they don't necessitate big technology changes.
How about mountain bikes? It is a much newer sport and the trails/terrain and riding styles have advanced rapidly over the last 15-20 years. A lot of riders are demanding more and different things than they were a few years back.
The "problems" are not created by new standards, but by what the new technology - in some cases enabled by the new standards - allows you to do with a bike. Ten years ago, nobody in their right mind would have tried to spend a day in the bike park on a 29er trail bike with a carbon frame and carbon rims. Now, I see people do that ever more frequently, and in most cases, they easily get away with it. Because bikes are still improving that much.
After carbon frames got so much stiffer at the same weight, and after through axles allowed for much less torsion than quick releases used to, and after 1* drive trains with a sufficient range for mountain biking made it possible to build 29er frames with shorter chainstays than what most 26" bikes used to have, thereby actually making them fun to ride, you might find, that a need arises to make those larger wheels a little stiffer, hopefully without adding weight to the rotating mass, and then you might end up designing a wider hub...
Not every new idea works out in the end, but that never was the case, and the day the bike industry stops trying new things, to me, will be a sad day. Bikers, like regular people, are on the most part strictly conservative. "Never change a running system" is one way of saying that. There's good reason to stick with what worked in the past. But ultimately that approach doesn't allow for any progress.
Only a bike built around one particular wheel size can use all of its advantages.
People seem to think, that a big difference should be noticable right the moment someone makes one change to an existing bike, or else that change is not a good one.
But that's not the way it works, especially if most basic advancements have already been made.
The first disk brakes performed horribly, made worse by forks and frames that just had some tabs put on them, without any further design changes. Luckily, people stuck with it and incrementally changed everything around them, in the end making bikes that were better than they ever could have been with a rim brake.
Order a BTR Ranger 26". Use 26" wheels, 26" forks.
Order a BTR Ranger 27.5". Use 27.5" wheels, 27.5" forks.
Order a BTR Ranger 29". Use 29" wheels, 29" forks.
Stans Flow and Manitou Mattoc may offer these in all variations.
Pay.
Ride.
Compare.
I know bikes now are great but certainly most of us are motivated to change by fashion and keeping up with the Joneses more than anything.
Wholesale changes made since 2010 have been great, but there have been a lot more BS changes. Front axles, anyone? Guess what, we're all going to be back on 20mm in 2020. Well I already am because I have a Fox 36 so I never had a 15mm, but you get my point.
Bikes are more expensive than they should be, because there are too many people in the game selling the same thing, then making something different but not better just to make sales. In a blind test, no normal person could tell the difference between 15mm, 20mm, 15mm boost, 20mm boost axles. So why do they exist? Is it simply to keep the till turning over?
"the mountain bike industry's hype machine" aka "pinkbike"
But again, your "experiment" will not work. Based on one frame you can not reach a conclusion about wheelsizes. To do that, you would have to assume, that BTR compensates for the different wheel sizes in excatly the perfect way. For example, that it is correct to compensate for the different offset in the forks by making the head angle half a degree steeper, etc.
But even if we assume, BTR found the perfect geometry for each wheel size, we would still only be able to say, which wheel size works best (and we would have to define what "best" in this context means) for the niche of heavy long travel hardtails.
Bikes keep getting better all the time. And as I tried to lay out before, it is not really possible to isolate one factor from the equation.
Maybe that'll be the 2022 model year?
Pinkbike home of the fake news
I think you are right tho. It's probably a bery good size.
Smart play on the industry by slowly changing the "plus" to "WT".
I can't wait till Maxxis make a 29x2.6 Minion.
It was a classic bike industry "whats next years big thing", which works as follows (feel free to drop in any niche):
1- Niche brand wants something new and niche to make them stand out from the gazillion other people selling the same stuff to the same people. they sell tiny numbers
2- Big brands product managers want a piece of the action so they launch a range of new products and get a load made
3- Big brands flood the front of their Eurobike stand with these "cool must have products"
4- Big brands spend a fortune on marketing them, and cant back down as they are upto their eyeballs in invoices and stock on the water.
5- The media start making up gibberish about how "lifechanging" they are
6- Bikeshops tell their supplier salesman to get stuffed over stocking this years wonder machine after getting shafted with fatbikes and all the other niches which never came to anything.
7- Bikeforums go wild with the nichemongers creaming themselves over their niche purchase being "lifechanging" to justify dropping ££££ on a weird bike which is not quite as good as a normal bike. The 3 people who bought them keep repeating like a stuck record so it sounds like lots of people have them..
8- 99.87% of people carry on buying normal bikes
9- The shops who are suckered into buying them bin them out at a loss to get rid
10- Bike companies find out nobody bought the things and bin them off to make space for the next "EPIC PRODUCT"
11- 99.88% of people carry on buying normal stuff
12- Nichemongers windge about how you cant get spares for their weirdass heap o junk
13- Return to point 1
My feelings on 27+:
- i had conversations with rim manufacturers in taiwan where they basically were pissed off at spending a fortune on tooling for all these "must have" new rims, and nobody bought them and the ones who did massively cut their orders at the last minute!
- you get a slightly bigger tyre which makes naff all difference
- your rims and tyres now have their own gravity field
- your bike now rides like a slow bag o crap
- you get a warm glow that everyone envies your ego chariot of the latest nicheness
- you realise your wrong in so many ways
- you fit normal wheels and all is good again
To all the people who like 27+, at least it will get you fit dragging around all that junk.
Ta, Superstar Components chief cynic
Id put a fiver on all these new long travel enduro 29" bikes that are popping up will go back to 650b in a few years too...
27+ is what % of the market maybe 5% and they dumped the shit on us before it was tested and sorted out.
I think all marketing guys should be made to ride 27+ up a 5 mile climb and then a fast rocky tech down, and see how they feel about it.
Ta Ta
If bike companies decide to push 27.5+ and remove much of their 27.5 range you will have to respond and start to supply 27.5+ wheelsets, however much you may dislike them personally (do you even ride a bike? - where does that come from?) - Your opinion has no effect on the industry, you are a low tier supplier and not in a position to dictate trends like the large brands do - Thats the truth - We will ride what the big companies decide we should, thats why 27.5 became a thing in the first place.
Your 99% of people carry on riding 'normal bikes' is complete crap - why is there 29" and 27.5" options in that case - 29" was hardly considered 'normal' for a long time.
You do make yourself look like a bit of an arse when you criticise potential customers who use 27.5+ in the manner you have above too - but from what I have seen you are happy to be publicly rude to your customers in responses online and on forums so I suppose thats what is expected.
Will this come round and bite you in the ass if 27.5+ becomes the 'norm' - or will you still refuse to supply them because of your own opinions?
Yes your correct that we don't set the agenda of the bike business but that wasn't my point. My point was that these big companies and their marketing machine are "telling you what to think" even when in the background of the industry they cant even give away these "hot" products. They have to keep reinforcing that they are great to get rid of them, they cant back down even if the new product is a complete dead dog.
These hype products get 99% of the media yet sell 0.1% of the market turnover.
I have not defined normal bikes, by that i mean everything else that isn't hype and people actually buy! be it 29/650 or dare i say it 26" (which we sell loads of even though its apparently so dead according to the so called "industry hype experts")
All opinions listened to and valued, i just cant cope with spouting hype like the majority of brands are built on.
Ta, Superstar Components
I think the fact you still sell lots of 26" wheels is more an example of your place in the industry than the reality of the wheel size being dead though and entirely backs up my point.
At the moment (this may change in time, who knows) you fit into the 'budget replacement' end of things where people who cannot afford / do not want to afford a new bike will come to for parts to 'glam up' their bikes or make them more 'current' - thats why you are selling 26" wheels when there hasnt been a bike for sale with 26" wheels from a major manufacturer for years now, they certainly wont be for new builds.
As to me falling into 'point 7' - If you read my other post you will see I have brought the point forward that most new 'standards' and 'developments' over the years have been absolute tosh and nothing more than a marketing exercise to push sales but without that relentless drive from the bigger companies a business like yours would literally fail to exist, which is why I suggested alienating future potential 27.5+ customers in a somewhat smug manner is a bit silly.
A business like yours survives by essentially feeding off the back of constant industry movement.
ive lost count of the conversations ive had where somebody says dont by X but buy Y, when it turns out to be the exact same thing but at twice the price. the difference brand allignment and hype. but if it makes you happy then go elsewhere and get what you want im not going to stop you. some people wear a t-shirt, some people pay 10 times the price for the same thing with a logo on as it makes them feel good. We sold a stem once for £13 which another brand sold for £50, difference was the sticker - hype or quality, its the same bloody thing!
The reason we sell lots of 26" is simple - theres loads of them out there! its got nothing to do with being a low end (apparantly) brand. Im not alienating potential 27+ customer, im just not interested in investing tends of thousands of pounds selling that product as the market is many times smaller than the hype makes out, infact almost non-existant.
This kinda supports my opinion that people have been blinded by the market hype...
Bearing in mind im basing this on over a decade of experience and we know from previous comments you have made on pinkbike that you have presumed alot of things (like that obviously our huge UK made range is all made in taiwan...). We can use that to validate whos opinion might be closer to the truth.
Lets hug and make up, i like a good discussion but lets keep things based on facts not presumptions.
Ta, Superstar Components
Thustleweiner, it's okay man. We know you're liking your 6fattie. Just keep rockin it.
For most of this audience, we like a company calling out the over-hyped b.s. in the industry. I see the merits, but not in normal trail bike applications which is what most of us do. And yes, I demoed a plus in Moab. Even there I'd take a two nine.
Also, my Stumpy two nine can beat up your 6fattie.
Attempting to obtain some form of sense from your second paragraph - I am assuming you are saying people pay more for products you sell elsewhere because of a different logo, I did not in any way say that nor did I say online that your Uk products were actually made in Tawian - Infact if you look back at that converstation I was actually the person who said you were manufacturing in the UK - so you may want to check that!
All of that jibberish goes out of the window anyway - are you not making your 'own products' in the UK now? in which case how can they possibly be copies?
How on earth can you associate 26" wheels with current or 'high end' bikes? There are loads of old bikes knocking around that use 26" wheels - not new ones, you are selling wheels for budget builds or to update old bikes - how can you not see that, unless you are aware of a manufacturer selling a 26" wheel bike from the last 3-5 years that is?
I have based nothing on assumtion, its obvious what area of the market you occupy, if you are too blind to see that its your choice but you certainly are no Hope or similar - you sell to the low end of the market and I maintain the fact that what you sell is entirely dictated to you by larger companies in the industry.
I dont know why you take that as a criticism though - every business occupies a sector of the market and you are clearly doing what you do well, I can happily admit that, dont try to be something your not.
Back to the conversation. Just because the bike has 26" doesnt mean its not high end, people keep bikes for a while and alot of people dont ditch it every year for the latest fashion. we support all the sizes and we sell cheap 650b and expensive 26", whatever the customer wants. Actually lots of eastern europe brands are still doing loads of 26", might not be the fashion here but over there it is. Your opinion of cheap is different to other people, and i work on the actual materials going into the product without worrying about the hype.
I just think its bonkers when people say a product is low end when literally the only difference is a sticker and a preconception.
On all the history your repeating - back in the day there were a bunch of people who twisted comments, made stuff up and basically were trying their hardest to do as much damage to the brand out of spite. Most of them had never used our products and were keyboard warriors repeating made up comments enough to make people believe it was true. Continues to this day, still doesn't make it all true though does it? The bottom line of it is I know what is true and everyone else read something on the internet which was way off the real truth (or was just made up rubbish), and then they carry on repeating it like its gospel. On the CCJ the guy took us to court and lost, then had to pay compensation to us. So yes we went to court but did absolutely nothing wrong, then was proved in court. So are you going to carry on insinuating we did something wrong now you actually know the truth?
Im quite happy with our position, obviously you dont know what we actually sell so you dont really know our actual position. It would shock you if you actually found out what we do in the background...
Ta, Superstar Components
Definitely true. I'm just not hardcore enough to ride the fatties. Touché.
back in the day we invested a huge amount of money into tooling ($10,000 per size for the tool alone) to make a wide carbon rim which nobody but the likes of enve were making. We sold alot originally but then everyone started selling alibaba specials so it became a bit pointless.
People now expect either $1500 hype rims or $250 cheap rims and anything in the middle they say is a cheap rims which is a ripoff.
So we have invested in making higher quality custom aluminium rims instead, eg our Alpine30 which is custom made for ourselves to our design with really high end technical features and materials. Its a mavic crossmax type quality (or a bit better really) rim but at half the pricepoint. They are going down well and are a nice option which not many brands cover currently.
Ta, Superstar Components
lol, This made me spit out my coffee!
Sincerely,
America
Carbon i45 650b wheelset with dt350 hubs, cxray spokes, and brass nipples from lightbike: 1745g
Carbon i30 29er wheelset with dt350 hubs, cxray spokes, and brass nipples from lightbike: 1742g
Maxxis HR2+ 3.0 - 3C MAXX TERRA, 3C/EXO/TR: 990g
Maxxis HR2+ 2.8 - 3C MAXX TERRA, 3C/EXO/TR: 915g
Maxxis HR2 29x2.3 - 3C MAXX TERRA, 3C/EXO/TR: 920g.
Maximum weight difference across wheel/tire combo: 140g, or 5oz when comparing the 27.5x3.0 vs the 29x2.3. There is ZERO DIFFERENCE effectively in weight between a 27.5x2.8 and a 29x2.3.
Regardless of how you feel about the tire size, at least educate yourself about the actual weight difference between plus tires and 29er tires. Across brands, the weight difference averages about 50-70g between 29x2.3/4 and 27.5x3, and 0-20g difference between 27.5x2.8 and 29x2.3/4.
- Don't have the knowledge, can't speak about it.
- I can't argue about the wider tire making a difference in absolute grip, I don't have the capability to measure that. In my experience and opinion, it makes a difference.
- Your argument about weight has been shown to be exaggerated at best, completely proven wrong at worst.
- This has more do with with tire tread design and tire pressure.
- LOLWUT?
- Wrong about what exactly?...plus is just different, not better. Horses for courses.
- Normal is fine too.
I agree, it is bonkers when people say something is a different quality because of the badge, but its not something I discussed in the first place.
In terms of the history I am bringing up - Your are suggesting you had no part to play in any of it? - You didnt have multiple forum accounts? - you didnt go into a shop or similar slagging off others products? - you didnt get named an 'asshat' for your behaviour by another company? - you are not smug / rude / passive agrerssive to your customers on facebook? And as for hte CCJ, I am aware you won the case but the events leading up to it did not paint you in a good light, I dont have any more of the truth now than before, just your side of the story - OJ Simpson won his case too btw....
BTW, it wouldnt shock me what goes on in the background, your machineshop video shows the shit-hot stuff you have invested in so fair play for that (I am aware you are making other brands parts too like Six-oack racings chainrings) and I actually wish the business success because it is good to see more UK manufacturing, you could just do with dealing with customers in a better manner and being less arrogant.
No, no, yes (my opinion was valid), I would say honest and to the point (some people can't hack the truth and get their panties in a bunch about nothing), what happened leading up to it was made up rubbish by a loon.
That about covers it, and 98% of it is either made up or so far from the truth yet repeated again and again by people who weren't involved or actually know anything about it. If you don't actually know the dirty facts in entirety your just repeating the lies.
It was the problem of starting a disruptive business like being a direct seller early on. Lots of people in the business and with a vested interest wanted to kill it off. Now everyone is doing it they have to suck it up.
Have you done that yourself? I have, and it's the sh*t! Rocky tech is where plus kills it. Also, from maxxis.com.. 27.5 x 2.3 Minion DHF 120 tpi = 1075g 27.5 x 2.8 Minion DHF 120tpi = 980g Not to mention the 29 x 2.3 120tpi weighing in at 1145g! There is just more air in the plus and last I checked air doesn't weigh much. Lastly, cheap carbon rims are a dime a dozen now so not much weight gain there either.
Now as much as I enjoy buying at superstar, the argument that plus bikes suck is absolute bollocks. A kind I can hear from a dude I meet on the lift who tells me how much he loves DH, how much he rides just that and then I smoke him on a fkng trail bike. Plus works from 30mm internally wide rims, most current frames and forks fit most 2.8" tyres. Plus makes plenty of sense as a second bike.
Finally hype is made mainly by sites like Pinkbike and commenters. So stuck that pointy finger up your arse.
I don't know, this comment section is a huge disappointment...
That's what you THINK. But did you actually time yourself? You know, data. Science. Not "feeling" and emotion.
Lotus Flower - If a bike feels crappy why would you ride it? Who gives a damn if it's faster or slower.
No suspension on the market will give you the small bump of a 18PSI 2.8" tire so if you're riding somewhere sandy and loose nothing is as quick. I can also climb up tech just as fast on Plus because there's so much traction.
Horses for courses. Anyone who thinks otherwise is ignorant.
i think that plus has a solid place on hardtails and on slower technical terrain where theres tons of rocks and roots. also, wherever theres loose dirt/sand, youll be more stable.
You people forget your place, failing to realize that gravity riding is a niche. And you also behave as if you were elite of gravity riding. Just like with any other sport, most people suck. But these people make your sport what it is because they pump money into it by buying bikes you despise. They suck because they have other things to do in life. There's a whole world out there and if you think that MTB is the coolest, that you either ride MTB in the park - you are a f*cking idiot and an a*shole
For majority of MTB owners, just getting down an average DH track is an achievement. So they don't need super strong tyres for what they do. I guided and coached a few absolute noobs and each single one of them would benefit greatly from Plus tyres for that little time they have in the woods.
I think they are pretty awesome for getting tons of traction on loose steep climbs but there aren't any trails where I live that could really take advantage of them.
On typical xc singletrack hardpack dirt/rocks/roots I would never want one as my primary bike, why push all that extra rotational weight around? Why aren't all the pro xc racers on plus bikes?
This has nothing to do with dh / park / enduro riding and everything to do with adding rotational weight to get more traction when more traction likely isn't needed.
Especially points 8, 9, 10 and 11 on your list don't sound to me, like any company *really* doing this could stand even the slightest chance to survive. So, the problem should solve itself within one or two years, right?
Now I brought my comment up on a post about trends and one of the current trends is long travel 29ers, trek, spech, orange, orbea, intense, cruz, nukeproof, norco, cube, evil, transition, BMC, Marin just off the top of my head have focused recently on 29 with the marketing to go along with it! You look at the top ten in the men's ews bar Greg there all 650b, look at what's just happened in the dh World Cup, back to 650b. There are people and regions out there which will welcome the trend with open arms no doubt, I've tried a few that I've mentioned myself and there quality machines, but I think once the majority of people's curiosity over the 29 is finished there next bike will be a 650b. The 3 second rolling benefit over a smooth mile the 29 brings to the table doesn't surpass the extra confidence(for myself, and a lot of downhillers by the looks of it) a 650b bike brings to the table! And the added dose of playfulness for the non racers out there!
Lotus Flower, don't be such a Millennial, it was a term of endearment.
This is an open forum and everyone is here to share their own opinion. Some of that is even based on experience. I also found the plus (Hightower with 3.0s) too sluggish for my taste. Just like Kitejumping.
The whole ride (Enchilada) I wished I had the bike set up in the two nine config instead cuz I just wasn't jiving with it. Don't get all butt hurt about it.
I'm not like willaasss with a whole garage of steeds. If so, why not have a 6fattie for my 6th bike? Carbonium rims and 2.8s of course.
I can see the merits in certain circumstances. But for experienced riders like you and I (assumption), i think standard widths are best for trail/am riding. I've got a couple friends getting into Hightowers 29. I won't be offended if they convert to 27+, though u know I'll tease them about it.
Ride what works for you. As for me, I'll keep my Slaughter 2.3 and Minion 2.5 and ride off into the sunset with a sh*t eating grin on my face.
We're bored of your shit.
pack it in with the gimmicks an make stuff that's cross cmpatable an doesn't break and/or cost a small fortune
Ta
the riders
How many axle width standards resulting in how many different frame / fork types to fit them? - Multiply that by different wheel sizes.
Then you have the 8-10+ different headset sizes, 6+ bb sizes, a different chainring mount design for every manufacturer multiplied by multiple offsets.
10 speed, 11 speed, 12 speed, different cassette mounting standards.
Different handlebar diameters, different brake mounts and as is the subject of this article you can choose from 26, 26+, 27.5, 25.5+, 29, 29.5+.
There really is a lot going on and much of it is just to be 'unique' rather than offer a genuine benefit over a competing product.
29" wheels offered a real 'change' / benefit (if you like them) over 26", I think plus tyres are a good thing to have available too, especially for beginners, 'trail bikes' are amazing nowdays, but some of the other crap I listed above just makes things mind numbing at times.
Thank you for your letter. We've considered it at our AGM and have come up with the following solution which we think you'll like:
- We'll keep inventing solutions to problems nobody had, and you'll keep on complaining about it whilst forking out your cash for that very same product.
Ta
The Bike Industry.
Modern business is all about telling the customer what they want, not asking them - the cycling industry has just started doing it (most noticeably with 27.5 wheels) but other industries such as technology and automotive have been doing it for ages.
Industry / commerce is not a slave to the consumer, it is entirely the other way round.
But, and its a big but, performance bikes are a luxury, we choose to buy them, we dont have to and bikes are they best they have ever been, trail bikes are literally amazing now - Anyone that goes back to bikes 15 years ago or beyond will certainly agree with that!
This is why I don't "believe" anything from the larger companies.
As you say its compatibility of parts. That said there are still a few companies making old stuff. You can still get Hopes in 135 x 36 holes if you need.
I know a few people in the German car industry, who really, seriously hate everything about those so called "SUVs" with all their heart. Still, they have to make them, because that's what people are buying.
This is not about people making an informed decision based on what they need, or even on what provides most fun in their specific environment, but what they think that they might just need at some undefined moment in time.
That moment, when they decide to just turn around shortly before arriving at kindergarten, and driving with the kids all over the alps, using only smuggler paths... free at last. Unfortunately that day never comes and that 300 horsepower, 4wheel drive, 2and a half ton vehicle only ever is used to go 2kms to Kindergarten, and then on another 2 to work...
If a 27.5 wheel is half a second faster on the olympics course than a 26 wheel, then some pro will use it. Afterwards people will buy them, because there might be that moment, when they just need that half second...
And even the ones complaining about the new standards are thinking in exactly the same way. Otherwise there would be no reason to complain, if they were not always on the lookout for the latest and greatest they could just ride whatever "standard" they want, for as long as they want. People are still riding bikes from the early 90s.
Yes, there are some situations, in which a certain combination somebody who is just building up a bike wants will simply not be possible. So far, to me, having a larger variety of options to choose from at any given time always outweighed those rare occasions, when after five years of abuse it was time to replace my frame, but the wheels were still good, and wouldn't fit the new frame...
How about you?
Same. Blah blah blah.
Pinkbike : Say no more fam.
I actually think plus size tyres are a decent thing though, unlike some of the other crap we are spoon fed.
Specialized had to go and ruin the geometry on their new Enduro 29 to make it 650b+ compatible. What an absolute joke
"Plus" as far as I know was "invented" by Surly on their Krampus (29 Plus) - arguably one of the most versatile bikes ever made. They saw the benefits of fat bikes but wanted to make a trail bike. As Surly "make" their own frames, tyres and rims they could do this.
The rest of the industry then jumped on the bandwagon.
Those are all advantages, but you ignored rolling resistance, which is one of the most important aspects of a tyre. There's a reason people stopped running the old more-than-2.5-inch minions. I'll stick to 2.5 on my DH bike and 2.35 on my trail bike.
The big co's must grow sales. That's their mission. So as sales slowed they look to new segments to create incremental bike sales to the existing market. Enter Fat bikes. They had been around as a niche for awhile but the big guys saw it as an opportunity. Suddenly there's a fat bike available from every major brand as they realize there's a chance to sell another bike and grow - "don't ride your trail bike in the winter, get a fat bike that does it better". So the dealers bring in the fat bikes. The press is positive. the hype begins. everyone scrambles to catch up while other are trying to figure out how to parlay that momentum into other segments. Me too Marketing didn't create plus tires, but I'm comfortable assuming it played a major role in shoving them down our throats.
...you can't be serious with anything Surly. I don't think they even take them selves seriously but they make good stuff.
Here's the quote:
"Basically, yeah, the trails are not as difficult so you can get away with riding basically a rubbish bike, can't you? You wouldn't design a plus tire unless you could get away with riding basically a rubbish bike. Plus tires are, honestly, who thought of that? Let's make paper thin, rock hard compact tires that are supposed to be ridden at low pressures. Of course they don't work. As soon as you try to load it in a turn, it folds. You put it up to normal pressure, it feels like it's rattling your teeth out, and it's still as heavy as a normal tire that's good. Honestly."
Proper product trials would have highlighted the obvious flaws with lightweight plus size tyres and would have arrived at this conclusion without Joe Bloggs having to go and spend £2-4 grand on something the industry promised him was the next big thing!
And we would still be having the same fun.
.
The days of MTBs getting a lot bettter each year are over and the buying public knows that. The amount of gimmicks and re-standardising going on suggests the industry knows it too.
.
Like I said bikes haven't really moved much in the last five-six years. The biggest shift is in sizing and the appearance of big travel 29ers, but other than that you could buy bike that was well sorted from the box back then.
I have a plus Chameleon and I find myself riding it more than my Bronson. It's not as fast, but it's fun. I think it would be more fun and fast with a set of carbon rims and 29x2.5 but for a second bike it's hard to justify spending 3/4 of what the bike cost on wheels.
I liked plus hardtails when I rode one so I bought on. But light and wide 29 inch rims were the real eye opener for me
The advantages of the Plus hype is that it has pushed the limits of tyre widths for regular bikes. I can see a future of 2.5 - 2.6 tyres. Maybe something like the 2.75" Minion and Highroller of old.
For bike packing, loose surfaces (snow, sand) E Bikes, sure, fill your boots. But for trail riding, pass. And yes, I've used 2.7 Mobsters and Gazzaloddi Nokians in 3" in the past
Cf Julian Wagner's answer.
Does the internet already host a list of real tire sizes? For example on a 25mm rim, a 2.5 maxxis is 56mm and a 2.35 MM is 61mm...
www.reifenbreiten-datenbank.de/reifen.html
it's in german though..
My bike is fast, my Maxxix is shiny
I tell all the #endurobro's to kiss my heinie
I'm dressin' sharp & I'm actin' cool
I got a con-sumer here that has purchased my tires
Let them hype up my brand which will influence new buyers!
What’s important is what works for you and for your trail. If it’s a 27+ bike, then be it, if it’s a 29 or 26 then be it. Will you look down on your buddy if he/she rides a different wheel size than you? Of course not
The majority of the people here have not tried 27.5+, hence the whining. If you would have tried it, maybe you would be slightly more open minded to another wheel size being fun to ride, but instead, you’re stuck in that place and refuses to look around you. Maybe not, maybe you look around and go: “WTF is happening to the industry?” Try it, you might have some fun doing it.
I’ve been on Plus bikes for some time, not because I am slow, or because I like to drag my feet (like some people referred it to be), not because I lack confidence, but because it is damn fun and those of you who refuse to admit that another standard or wheel size might be fun, you’re just missing out.
The truth is the number of standards and wheel sizes are actually good because there are as many different types of trail and as many different types of riders, so why not expand the portfolio?
By the sounds of it, everyone here would prefer to all ride the same bike, same wheel size, same colour, same everything… let’s all be sheeps then
After all, isn’t the whole point to go out and ride bikes and have fun doing it? So who cares…..
I don't see why people think that's a problem. The fact of the matter is, people are more upset with MTB industry marketing as a whole, rather than 27.5+ bikes in particular. If they get more people into the sport; which it seems when it comes to beginners, they do- it's a good thing. Don't be a snob just for the sake of it.
I love having choices:
-Table Saw, Chop Saw, Miter Saw, Band Saw, Saber Saw, Jig Saw, Hand Saw, Hack Saw
-Drill Press, Hammer Drill, ½” Drill, 3/8” Drill, Corded Drill, Cordless Drill, Cordless Screwdriver, Screwdriver
-12, 16, 20, 24, 26, 27.5, 27.5+, 29, 700c, hard-tail, full suspension, 0-200mm travel, road bike, cruiser, mtb, ebike
I love them all!!! It is about the right tool for the right job. Each one serve a purpose. There is no one tool that can do everything well.
I am nothing more than just a consumer. I have no ties to the bike industry except I love bikes since I was a kid. It gave me freedom that I would not have had otherwise! I love the changes.
These changes made the bike better and better each year! I buy bike every couple of years. The innovations and improvements are very noticeable. I wish I can say the same about my skills…
I love my bike in either configuration 29er or 27.5+. I prefer 27.5+!
My brother climb 5000+ feet on a Walmart Mongoose MTB, had a great time descending that 5000 ft, and then he went to a bike shop and bought a proper MTB bike (26”) at a great price and continued the fun!
Wind in your hair, mud on your back, and a big giant grim on your face. Let’s Ride!!!
For non professional or very capable/aggressive riders , I think that plus rim+tires is the best way to have fun on a hardtail.
I'm very average,, maybe below average, but I instantly had more fun riding my NS Djambo plus hardtail over any other alu or stell I have ever had in the past.( I have had many ) Maybe they are slower and you need a bit more effort on the ups and acceleration is not so good, but if you look more for more"easy" fun over speed I guess they are super. Average riders like me really can enjoy more technical sections much more and with more confidence. The real problem is that average riders like me, are often not so keen to try products that look, well, "strange". They go in a shop and buy something that is "normal" for the eye, and dont want to buy something too much specialistic. I also think that many shops have not seen the plus format as something they beleve in too much I experienced this in some shop too, When I was asking infos about those bikes, often they replied like " oh yes, and then when this new plus format, very comfortable, easier, and well, it is a new ttrend, lest see if it takes on... "And me,, "did you try it? "... "oh yes, but Im happy with my Stumpjumper, it does everything and it does it well.. dont need any different bike now, I guess ". Not much much convinction on their faces.. to push it in the right way. If you cannot believe in the product you sell, I guess people can feel it.
. Key is to build wheels that dont go over 2,0-2,1 kgs. Over this the bike remain rideable and fun but you really begin to feel the negatives of plus format. I am know using a 2340grams pair of wheels ( I built them for my second backup bike and for gf, anyway for her all bikes are too heavy to pedal..
I tried them on both, thought it was intersting for a summer. Put my DHF2.3 back on for winter and they've stayed on this summer
I'm £100 down. Nice to try out but I'd never buy a plus bike because its plus.
I would not want to go back to my 90s Hardtail with shitty shock performance and prone-to-fail-rims.
Newish into the industry (at least doesn't live and breath mtb) and been sold in on the comfier ride benefits it offers.
I have a 160 travel fs that I recently did the Megavalanche on, but the bike I currently most want to ride is my 27.5 plus Genesis Tarn 20.
The reason is not complicated either, it's simply because that steel framed beauty is the most FUN bike to ride I've ever had.
Diversity is the spice of life, don't knock it till you've tried it and don't judge a book by it's cover !!
I bought my Mojo3 ~3 months ago after demo'ing a bunch of great bikes. Fact is I was faster up and down on mid-travel 29'ers but I had so much more fun on the mojo that I went that direction with 2.8NN. I'm not trying to win races when I ride I'm trying to have fun but my times up and down the mountain are faster than on my previous bike. I don't have a ton of rocks where I live but there are some good technical trails around Santa Cruz where the plus tires just rail.
All that said, I did knock the rear NN off the rim airing into a hard left-hander and have now moved to 2.6" Maxxis - they feel about the same with a bit less squirm but I miss that moto sound!
I have 2.8 WTB rangers but will soon change to 2.8 Maxxis highrollers.
I suspect there's more mud here than you have in California......unfortunately.
I did agree with you that plus was not great as an only bike, but tyres are getting better and Cube now make a 150 stereo plus and I'd bet it's fun, I'm tempted anyhow.
Truthfully, I'd probably demo a bigger travel 29'er for the few times a year I get to truly rocky terrain...but I don't see the need for more bike to ride a place like Downieville if that gives a better idea of the what I think the range of a mid-travel 27.5+ bike is...
I can run tires from 2.35-2.8" without really compromising ride height, for where I live and how I ride 90% of the time, I really like 2.6-2.8.
It would just about proper to say that bikes these days are amazing. To that end, the industry listened to their customer base. Once the playing field gets leveled with quality products, how's the manufacturer able to turn a profit? Incremental changes, subtle tweaks, retro/rogue/future colorways are a "product" of an industry who's benchmark is, well, amazingly high.
Yup larger volume but the overall diameter was smaller than 29" which made it not much more efficient on rocks and roots, traction do not seem to increase that much over a 2.3,2.4 29" while you are losing precision in the process and it becomes a barge in the mud.
Now I'm riding a bike in both regular 29 size (racing)* and 29+ (epic rides) * and I find the 29+ size much more interesting with the increased rollover ability of a larger diameter. Sure the 29+ doesn't suit every situation it is not a bike for everything but at least I find benefits over regular 29.
* yes the BB end up very low when mounting regular 29x2.2/2.3 on a bike made for 29x3 but I use it mainly on marathon races with a lot of time spent on fireroads instead of real singletracks. I don't mind that much the occasionnal pedal strikes when it gets technical/bumpy.
As with all bike industry stuff the hype train happens with anything new, I hate it as much as anyone but if you haven't ridden a plus and neg it then your just being cynical and narrow minded. Try it, you may like it.
Mic dropped.
Any custom builder can built you a 26" bike if that is your thing.
Additionnaly last time I checked (2 months ago) there were more than 100 different 26" mtb tires models on the market according to the bike24 online shop. It means that:
- your preferred tire may not be available but there is surely a decent alternative.
- your preferred LBS might not have them in stock but it doesn't mean the tire can't be ordered.
The reality is not as bad as we would think based on lbs inventory and cycling media.
Since wheel\tire weight literally makes no difference in required power output once they are up to rolling speed, it seems like a win win. (it did dampen the handling a bit, but the benefits far outweigh the cons, especially in proper rough steep DH situations ie. not rolling soft california hills where these bikes are designed)
If it's a purpose built bike, plus can be great, just understand the pros/cons and don't expect to win a damn XC race on your plus bike. It is a niche market, and probably should have never been sold as the "next big thing." Also, I agree with most of the guys above that they work best on hardtails, and I would even say have no business on full suspension bikes if you're an intermediate to advanced rider.
If you read Pinkbike and all other forums, EVERYONE hates 27.5+ and chastises the hype. Yet, sales are strong and manufacturers are offering them (you think they would continue if nobody bought them?).
SO, WHO THE F IS BUYING 27.5+ IF NOBODY IS BUYING 27.5+!?
There's obviously a market there, otherwise companies wouldn't be shelling out mega-cash to keep the tire molds up and running.
Also, can someone please explain what it means for a company to be a "marketing-only company?" This is said of Specialized a lot, and I don't understand it (I ride a Santa Cruz, so save your prissy little retort about shilling). If a company is all marketing, then how does it possibly manufacture product? I mean, when you utter those words, stop and look up the meaning of each word as it comes out of your mouth. I think you will figure out that you really don't know what you're saying when you say that. All I can think of is that haters just say it because that's what haters say. Apple is another example, especially coming from people who buy Android because they can't afford Apple. "Apple is all marketing, broh"! they say, without realizing that Apple actually makes shit.
Once again: Understand. The. Words. Coming. Out. Of. Your. Mouth.
Only also I wouldn't.
Because then I might want one.
And then I'd have to think about retiring a whole bunch of bits and pieces in my shed that still bring me big smiles as they become incompatible.
And I can't do that; they'd get sad no-one was riding them. I have too much respect for their history.
I thought you, of all of us, would appreciate that.
Lower pressure, more grip. Heavy as hell and sucked to pedal.
Now they come out with lighter weight 3.0 tires and wider rims and everyone is loosing their minds.
It's just a tire people. Your road bike can get tires from 23c to 45c. Your car can have different size wheels than someone else. You can put a 36" front wheel on your motor cycle if you want.
We shouldn't be silly and say only one size of tire is cool. Let's make everything from 1.5 to 5" and let people choose what works for them on their terrain.
Is good only for ebike...
Plus tires I like regular size range shizzle -29 r? rode it-whatever/ so so not excited -pimped out my 27.5 with all the latest shit-for $10000 whatever their selling doesn't even have the shit I did it myself better for less-
I think what they need to do for dual susp is have a f*cking size between medium and large -like a large frame length with a medium frame length seat tube -already wake up industry the seat post should be what keeps my toes off the ground and falling Over when I stop cause they go hundreds of millimeters these days.
Extra wheelbase means more space wasted and some new fangled geometry-around my garage in my closet stuffed into an SUV or on a plane I don't want anything bigger -the market hypers will keep cramming shit down our throats -thankfully the component makers come up solutions to their solutions-
When I get a 29r I'll call you but it will be never ish so hold your breath big 3 for my$$$ and everyone else breath easy and ride on!
The float they tell you you get from 3,4,5" tires is ok if you have 20hp on tap. The amount of time extra they can ride vs my 2.1 is maybe 2-3 days a season, I enjoy myself on my converted hard tail, but if you like spending $2000 plus on a bike that weights the same and uses $200 tires be my guest, we are all free to make our choices, just don't tell me I need 3,4,5" tires to ride in the winter and have fun, and I can run 1.5 for a summer beer bike, maybe a bit tuff on $200 fat bike tires in summer.
Ta Ta
You do you.
When did "too many choices"
stop you from Riding?
Awful things; the WTB tyres on the bike I was lent wee made of cheese and the undamped bounce became noticeable as the speeds picked up. The grips for braking and cornering felt much worse than my usual Minions.
Mate runs Surly tyres but they're rather porky.
Remember the rocky Mountain slayer? I thought they said you are able to put 26 plus tires in there and a lot of people liked that
C.C. to pinkbike.