This weekend's Southern Enduro in Milland, UK was a wet, slick affair, just the kind of conditions hardtails are made for, so we grabbed 18 hardtails from the packed hardtail class for you to enjoy.
Warning: there are some pretty dirty hardtails below!
We had a guy show up on a rigid singles speed to this weekend's enduro/xc race thing (2/3 down- 1/3 up/flat pedal) and wipe out the field. Something like 10th out of 155 total riders. Granted the trails were relatively smooth, but still, and absolute monster performance/troll.
We had a guy on a DJ bike do pretty well in a local race last weekend - steel, rigid, 26", just a rear v brake set up moto on semi slicks racing natural trails in the rain... dude was an animal. My front wheel is probably worth more than his whole bike. Run what you brung.
@SangamonTaylor: Is he the guy with the mutton chops? Can't remember his bike but he had a niner fork. Slamming beers before dropping into Heartbreak Ridge. I was in awe.
@Cholopolitan: I'm in Pennsylvania. We were all in awe, like what the f*ck is happening. Ofcourse this is the one enduro that not just a field of boulders around here.
I wouldn’t get overly worried, this event was in the south of England, which is not much hillier than a couple of fried eggs. That sick bike would have snapped if the going had got proper naughty. South Downs is CX ( sorry Gravel ) country.
@zeusdreadbeard: 2nd but not all times in other categories recorded on Stage 2 so they dropped it from all the results relegating me to 3rd. @tomdunn knows I beat him on a fully rigid though and that's all that matters! ;-)
@Alexanz1: big red beard, bright yellow skinsuit. He races for Jamis and also had the course record for ORAMM at one point, turns out fast people are fast up and down.
@Alexanz1: typically a big red beard on a Jamis. He wouldn't have been slamming beers before his run so must have been someone else. Maybe after the race though.
There are not numbers enough for me to adequatly prop this rigid hooligan. I have just recently bought a Kona Honzo trying to smash the trails in the same manner as my suspended hardtail - this is a completely different ballgame! This exemplifies the massive work of the front suspension in relation to the rear suspension. Massive kudos to the rigid ripper...either you are a ripper or you get caught by the reaper
My own bike is a mullet hardtail with a 130mm fork/ 29er on the front. Fork is at zero sag, really like it. Stable geometry and just enough give in the front end, much better than a longer fork and smaller wheel. And yes I ride some gnarley stuff on it. But @tamarin08 is on a whole other level!! Huge respect not just for riding the thing and doing so well but for approaching things differently and getting results. Nice one lad
@Glenngineer: yup....proof positive that the mtb industry is full of crap and too many yuppies are riding over gunned...you need skilz to rip..not equipment...simple enough. Aaaand...cant wait for 29 to finally die soon....26 will never die...luv it...
@housem8d: speak for yourself you f*ckwit, it’s not a negative reflection on anyone to ‘rag’ on people they were one of the most negative things to happen in the bike industry for years.
They have made it harder for any new company to get going as people will be reminded of how Sick so easily screwed people.
Dickheads of the finest order and should be called for it so the bike world sees they were a one off shit show.
@Wim101: I wouldn’t ride something that advertised the ‘brand’ those shit heads supplied the frame to you under, buy a downland sticker or get it repainted if you have any self respect.
@justanotherusername: probably a good thing it's not your bike then. I've got lots of self respect, which is exactly why I ride the bike I bought and paid for.
Given that the two (ahem) gentlemen who set up Sick have long since abandoned it and it's been delisted as a company it's safe for the few who actually got one to show them out in the open. They're just a curiosity from bike history now, not that it's any comfort to the people who spent the money and got nothing.
@Wim101: I did question who it was that at any point thought it a good idea to give any money to two those complete f*ckwits but at least now I know, enjoy.
@housem8d: Because; vegancheese, mash gang beer, occultatoos.... And zero remorse for taking people's money and carrying on regardless Jordan or William Storey for the biggest tosser award?
Love how the UK really embraces the Hardtail in it's pure 'fun' form and what it can do. Until recently, the hardtail on 'this side of the pond' has been relegated to cheap 'first bikes' or hardcore XC crowd. These are some nice rigs indeed.
To Matt Lakin running fully rigid....damn son! Balls of steel (or crazy as hell) award is all yours! Kudos!
@kcy4130: They let the company go bankrupt and ran away with their tails between their legs. Unless someone can dig out evidence that they never intended to deliver product (as opposed to being clueless, arrogant, incompetent and unable to deliver product), it's very unlikely anything criminal will come out of it. Likewise it would be difficult to sue them since Sick Bikes no longer exists as a company. . Planet X bought the production run of frames Sick left unpaid for in Taiwan and sell them as the Hello Dave and Tik Tik. According to Planet X they introduced Sick to the guys in Taiwan who make the On One steel frames, so they bought the frames since they knew they would be solid. Sick leaving Marino high and dry was a whole other drama those idiots kicked off.
@briain: good to know someone paid for them. I love my Marino so far. It's outdated now by today's standards but it serves it's purpose as my winter bike.
800 pounds is a lot for that frame. That being said it's probable they pumped up the frame price to sell more completes. 1700 pounds seems okay for the GX model.
When it comes to HT's, its all about the Kingdom Vendetta...great geometry, looks stunning, so much fun to ride and the best customer service you can get.
I ordered a Moxie from the Pipedream website. Alan is great to deal with, and very helpful. The Gen2/3 is a serious machine. If you are into the Enduro Hardtail thing, then you can't go wrong. I personally now ride the Gen1 Moxie, as I felt more comfortable on it and it felt more balanced. But either way, you can't go wrong. Steel is a great hardtail material too, I ride with 2.3 tires and it is surprisingly smooth even on rocky terrain.
There is always a way to get a UK frame here, it just comes down to economics. Occasionally I do see Pipe Dreams on the PB buy and sell too. Additionally, you would probably prefer a steel frame (such as a Moxie or other option) than the other frames you listed. This is certainly open to debate, but those folks that have had steel frames can provide more insight than someone touting the weight savings of alloy. Lots of options available in North America, time to dig in and nerd out before pulling your hardtail trigger. And yes, hardtails are a rad edition if you already have a nice FS.
That On One is a 456evo2, NOT a Big Dog, or a Hello Dave. They are an older model. Not as radical in the geometry, but progressive at the time they were designed. I had one . Great bike.
There is a hardtail class at NAEC in Silver, ID. Last year there was a stage that was just a taped off scree field on the side of the mountain lol. Gnartail Class.
@vtpachyderm: I think they are an underrated company. You hardly ever see a Dartmoor on Pinkbike. Like you said, for the money, they make some great bikes. They need some better distribution in the USA though.
2020 Hornet owner here. 300 Euros frame. Looks like it could survive an asteroid impact. Overbuilt? Yes. Heavy? Yes. Stiff? Sure. F*cks given? Zero. I'm 90Kg and like charging through stupid stuff, knowing that this thing will never, ever flinch.
80mm offset. Paired with the actual HA of 66 degrees it gives an effective HA of 63.5 degrees. 2 forks in 1. Fast/crisp handling of the 66 and monster truck confidence of the 63.5. Great choice - I love it!
@tamarin08: Slack head angle has 2 positives effects : - Longer front-center/wheelbase which reduce otb and gives the bike better overall ability to clear obstacle with less speed loss. On this particular point more offset effectively gives you a touch more of that effect. - More trail which result in more cornering stability/more self centering forces/less "twitchy" feeling. On this regard adding offset will reduce trail which will make the bike more twitchy, in effect it has the centering forces of a bike with around 69° HA. Personally i think winning front center VIA offset is not so good, if i wanted 63HA i would have gone 63 with standard offset.
@Ajaj191: good to know. I've ridden a number slack bikes also read about 'trail' quite a bit and understand what the numbers should mean. However, for some reason, the Mk4's trail numbers don't add up to the way it handles in reality. This is why it's so important to demo bikes before you buys them. Pretty sure the fork rake wasn't an after thought to create a longer front center - frame and fork were designed as one. Gotta also consider the angle at which the rider/bike mass is being pushed through that front axle.
@Ajaj191: the offset on this was designed for 2 purposes, to reduce wheel flop and to speed up the steering. On a rigid bike it makes sense for the front of the bike to be as agile as possible so you can change lines in an instant. It wasn't about gaining a longer front end. Despite popular belief and what most marketing managers will tell you, this geometry isn't twitchy in the slightest. The lack of wheel flop makes a huge difference, as does the fact the geometry never alters through sag. But this is a rigid bike in a field full of long travel hardtails, so it needs magic tricks and a damn good rider, which it has. The fact that @tamarin08 finished 2nd speaks volumes for his skills.
actually something (or all) on that stooge looks so right, that all other bikes looked like they missed the point (i say this owning a (brilliant) moxie)
The point I was making was about the last bike. The Storck. Enduro race, in the mud, on a full xc build with xc tires. To each their own I guess. @optimumnotmaximum:
@Deadclmbr: I broke my trail bike the day before an enduro, so I pulled out the rigid, Walmart level, 26" bike that I converted SS just to go and have fun on. It was absolutely miserable. But less miserable than staying at home.
Thanks for some perspective. Pinkbike and Strava have made me a snob. I’m ashamed. I’ve ridden literally every piece of machinery at my work that has wheels just for fun. That’s all it is about. I hope the dude on the Storck had a blast. @JSTootell:
Although they look cool, I'm wondering what might be the point of racing an enduro on a hardtail. Especially since a full suspension is objectively better suited for a rough track. I'm an XC racer, so I get why in some conditions you'd want a hardtail for racing, but this seems silly.
Probably the only bike they have also will be easier to ride a hardtail around all day without tiring so even if you’re at a disadvantage on the rough sections your at an advantage everywhere else and will be hitting each stage fresher than you would if you had to drag a coiled up enduro bike around all day.
@thenotoriousmic: Thats not true though, especially not for those slacked out murder machine hardtails. They're not more convenient to ride around than a similarly built enduro, they'll feel just as big, heavy and cumbersome. Also they're certainly not more comfortable to ride since they lack suspension and theyre usually way more tiring/fatiguing to ride in the rough.
About the "only bike" argument: I'd let that slide if most of those were in the same category as that Trek Roscoe. But many of these actually cost the same as a decent enduro bike. Have you seen the prices on the Orange, the Moxie or the Production Privee?
no one is buying hardtails specifically for enduro racing... they are buying slack hardtails cause theyre good value capable low maintenance good for smashing after work laps and then just bringing them to the races.
Most of these people won’t be racers, this will be something they do for fun. Hardtails make complete sense here as you don’t need a full suspension, and a trail hardtail is a lot more fun on the average after work ride than an enduro bike.
@Civicowner: Most of them aren't good value though. I'd say hardcore hardtails tend to be crazy expensive for what they are and compared to full sus trailbikes.
And how is an FS trailbike not good for smashing after work laps? If you don't feel beaten up enough, you can pump your tyres up harder, reduce sag a bit et voila. Maybe even lock the shock out if you want But you can still bring it back to beast mode for that trip to some burlier terrain. Not that I'd do any of that since I don't buy the "more sore=more fun" argument. I have way more fun on FS bikes, love how they feel.
The low maintenance argument... you don't change bearings/bushings THAT often and it's not hard or super time-consuming. The shock; you service your fork on a HT anyway so adding the shock to that is not a massive deal.
Don't get me wrong, I like hardtails, rode them for most of my mtb life. I sometimes take my gravel bike to mtb trails for shits and giggles. But let's not pretend they're a "better" choice for a trailbike when you can get a fully functional full squish for £1500-£1700 brand new. They're more of a "because I can" boutique choice, idk, for the challenge or difference of it, sometimes for the aesthetic. Even on tame trails a short-mid travel bike will be nicer to ride than a HT.
Different story with jump bikes, definitely getting a HT for that as soon as I build a bigger shed
@bananowy: they make good vanity projects, which is what a lot of people want. People like to pimp up/customise their rides and have something unique to them. Especially older riders who have already had most types of bike (I've been through 6 suspension bikes). Changed the last one to a ht as it was too capable for my local trails and a bit boring frankly.
I'd disagree with your maintenance argument, although it depends on the frame. I've stripped two down in the past and neither were easy or quick. The shock eyelet bushing always seemed to wear for me. Service is still £100 a time.
Each to their own though. It's nice to have a choice.
@tremeer023: Totally agree on the vanity project part as hardtails look nicer. Choice is good of course and ideally we would all have N+1 bikes for various trails, moods etc. And yeah the maintenance piece of course is there - up to everyone to decide if it's significant in the grand scheme of things.
HTs certainly have their place but there are some claims floating around them that I just think are myths like "HTs are better value", "HTs make you a better rider", or "FS are boring on easier trails".
@BenTheSwabian: they’re not riding slacked out murder machines. They’re on ones and oranges. I’ve got an orange crush myself and my son has an on one. These bikes posted aren’t super expensive £1500-£2000 you couldn’t get a full suss for that.
Yeah it is true though don’t believe the hype. I can ride further and faster on my hardtail than I can on my full suss by a significant amount and they’re almost identical build wise. Even if I can’t ride as fast downhill I’m gaining everywhere else. Full suss can scramble up steep climbs my hardtail struggles on but I’m not getting a bit of my energy robbed by the suspension every time I turn the cranks, do a hop etc so it’s not much of a consolation. Still love my full suss just as much though.
@bananowy: don't worry, some people get it, some don't
" Even on tame trails a short-mid travel bike will be nicer to ride than a HT." it's all subjective mate, some of us prefer hardtails Personally i enjoy the responsive nature and efficient pumping, plus that feeling you get when you're absolutely pinning a slack hardtail is hard to match
Oh and re: cost and maintenance, i dare you to find a FS with similar spec to nukeproof scout for the same money. wouldnt call it a myth :^) Rebuilding suspension is always a hassle, no matter how "quick and easy" it is
@Civicowner: Exactly. I know full sus is faster and more comfortable and I don't care. I love my hardtail and a hardtail will always be my main bike even though I'd like to add a burly short travel for long days out with friends.
@Civicowner: "some people get it, some don't" is just a non-argument to pigeonhole people into some imaginary category that makes it easier in your head to dismiss all they say by default
Do you seriously believe I haven't ridden, enjoyed, owned hardtails? That I don't own one now? That I don't know it's easier to pump one? That I don't like them? Where exactly did you read that in my comments? How about responding to what I actually said and not your projections?
Hardtails are great. All I pointed out was the half-truths and non-truths thrown around about hardtails as if they needed justifying in the first place. Really, you can just say you like them mate
150 quid gets you rear suspension and a dropper (i.e. completely different ride experience), similar remaining spec. That's just 20 seconds searching in one store. Which one's better value, be honest. 150 British Pounds, getting a dropper alone for the Scout could cost more.
That's all off-topic though because I dare you to say with a straight face that the Scout is the first bike on the minds of PB "hardtail aficionados" The Scout is a bike someone gets either as entry into MTB before moving on to FS or as an N+1 bike. People here are talking about Chromags, PPs etc. Even on a mass-produced big brand level, remember the Torrent from the field test? Great value that one
@bananowy: not trying to convince you of anything, just saying, no one is forcing you to buy one I dunno whats going on with your prices cause for me mythique is $700 more.
"some people get it, some don't" is just a non-argument to pigeonhole people into some imaginary category that makes it easier in your head to dismiss all they say by default" Yes
Imagine still telling yourself that I don't have one Whatever makes you feel safe in your little bubble.
"My" prices are the original prices as CRC is a UK company, Idk what's up with Aussie prices. At today's exchange rate it should be 275 AUD difference but oh well. 700 AUD/380 GBP is still nothing for what the bikes are.
My back's fine thanks. Also my shoulders feel better post race than they did on the front suss HT I raced the last 2 seasons on. Riding HT you tend to ride the front wheel more and let the rear dance - can't do that on the Stooge so I'm much better balanced on the bike and not having to wrestle the fork's rebound all day. I love it... and love that it screams, "look at me" - I'd class buying a bike that didn't as "not the best use of funds". ;-)
@bananowy: only thing i cant comprehend is why you are still arguing, you're only point seems to be "I actually own a hardtai BTW lol"
People keep makin em and people keep buyin them, no one here is claiming that "HT makes you faster" or whatever myths you're on about, no one is saying "oh full suspension is useless, it only slows you down"
teamdicky.blogspot.com
So does (enduro) that legitimate or make them a joke?
But @tamarin08 is on a whole other level!! Huge respect not just for riding the thing and doing so well but for approaching things differently and getting results. Nice one lad
I'd also love to see some photos of that Stanton Slackline without the mud, looks sweet!
They have made it harder for any new company to get going as people will be reminded of how Sick so easily screwed people.
Dickheads of the finest order and should be called for it so the bike world sees they were a one off shit show.
Speaking of which... anyone from Seattle want to split shipping on a frame order with me? I'm about to put a deposit down.
Because; vegancheese, mash gang beer, occultatoos....
And zero remorse for taking people's money and carrying on regardless
Jordan or William Storey for the biggest tosser award?
But where is the Chromag gang at?!
To Matt Lakin running fully rigid....damn son! Balls of steel (or crazy as hell) award is all yours! Kudos!
.
Planet X bought the production run of frames Sick left unpaid for in Taiwan and sell them as the Hello Dave and Tik Tik. According to Planet X they introduced Sick to the guys in Taiwan who make the On One steel frames, so they bought the frames since they knew they would be solid. Sick leaving Marino high and dry was a whole other drama those idiots kicked off.
'Our Sickest steel hardtail'... nudge nudge wink wink
All info here:
find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/10621767/filing-history
800 pounds is a lot for that frame. That being said it's probable they pumped up the frame price to sell more completes. 1700 pounds seems okay for the GX model.
Brave one :-)
These bikes scream “good times on bike” way more then your kashima coated sworks yeti....
Especially the On One lad with no dropper either.
There’s also the On-One Hello Dave, with a Pike and GX for £1.7K. May come with a lot of laughs about the HTA.
Their bikes are a steal, that’s for sure.
I’ve been riding my 456C too much...
My 13 year old has the Primal Intro spec kit and he loves it.
- Longer front-center/wheelbase which reduce otb and gives the bike better overall ability to clear obstacle with less speed loss. On this particular point more offset effectively gives you a touch more of that effect.
- More trail which result in more cornering stability/more self centering forces/less "twitchy" feeling. On this regard adding offset will reduce trail which will make the bike more twitchy, in effect it has the centering forces of a bike with around 69° HA.
Personally i think winning front center VIA offset is not so good, if i wanted 63HA i would have gone 63 with standard offset.
About the "only bike" argument: I'd let that slide if most of those were in the same category as that Trek Roscoe. But many of these actually cost the same as a decent enduro bike. Have you seen the prices on the Orange, the Moxie or the Production Privee?
The choice isn’t no suspension vs a coiled up enduro you know, there are a huge amount of bikes in between.
some of us just enjoy riding hardtails
And how is an FS trailbike not good for smashing after work laps? If you don't feel beaten up enough, you can pump your tyres up harder, reduce sag a bit et voila. Maybe even lock the shock out if you want But you can still bring it back to beast mode for that trip to some burlier terrain. Not that I'd do any of that since I don't buy the "more sore=more fun" argument. I have way more fun on FS bikes, love how they feel.
The low maintenance argument... you don't change bearings/bushings THAT often and it's not hard or super time-consuming. The shock; you service your fork on a HT anyway so adding the shock to that is not a massive deal.
Don't get me wrong, I like hardtails, rode them for most of my mtb life. I sometimes take my gravel bike to mtb trails for shits and giggles. But let's not pretend they're a "better" choice for a trailbike when you can get a fully functional full squish for £1500-£1700 brand new. They're more of a "because I can" boutique choice, idk, for the challenge or difference of it, sometimes for the aesthetic. Even on tame trails a short-mid travel bike will be nicer to ride than a HT.
Different story with jump bikes, definitely getting a HT for that as soon as I build a bigger shed
I'd disagree with your maintenance argument, although it depends on the frame. I've stripped two down in the past and neither were easy or quick. The shock eyelet bushing always seemed to wear for me. Service is still £100 a time.
Each to their own though. It's nice to have a choice.
HTs certainly have their place but there are some claims floating around them that I just think are myths like "HTs are better value", "HTs make you a better rider", or "FS are boring on easier trails".
Yeah it is true though don’t believe the hype. I can ride further and faster on my hardtail than I can on my full suss by a significant amount and they’re almost identical build wise. Even if I can’t ride as fast downhill I’m gaining everywhere else. Full suss can scramble up steep climbs my hardtail struggles on but I’m not getting a bit of my energy robbed by the suspension every time I turn the cranks, do a hop etc so it’s not much of a consolation. Still love my full suss just as much though.
" Even on tame trails a short-mid travel bike will be nicer to ride than a HT."
it's all subjective mate, some of us prefer hardtails
Personally i enjoy the responsive nature and efficient pumping, plus that feeling you get when you're absolutely pinning a slack hardtail is hard to match
Oh and re: cost and maintenance, i dare you to find a FS with similar spec to nukeproof scout for the same money. wouldnt call it a myth :^)
Rebuilding suspension is always a hassle, no matter how "quick and easy" it is
Do you seriously believe I haven't ridden, enjoyed, owned hardtails? That I don't own one now? That I don't know it's easier to pump one? That I don't like them? Where exactly did you read that in my comments? How about responding to what I actually said and not your projections?
Hardtails are great. All I pointed out was the half-truths and non-truths thrown around about hardtails as if they needed justifying in the first place. Really, you can just say you like them mate
Re: the Scout. Why "the same money"?. Value =/= price. But nevertheless:
cheapest scout: www.chainreactioncycles.com/nukeproof-scout-275-race-bike-deore10-2021/rp-prod196186
cheapest mythique: www.chainreactioncycles.com/vitus-mythique-27-vr-mountain-bike-2021/rp-prod195583
150 quid gets you rear suspension and a dropper (i.e. completely different ride experience), similar remaining spec. That's just 20 seconds searching in one store. Which one's better value, be honest. 150 British Pounds, getting a dropper alone for the Scout could cost more.
That's all off-topic though because I dare you to say with a straight face that the Scout is the first bike on the minds of PB "hardtail aficionados" The Scout is a bike someone gets either as entry into MTB before moving on to FS or as an N+1 bike. People here are talking about Chromags, PPs etc. Even on a mass-produced big brand level, remember the Torrent from the field test? Great value that one
I dunno whats going on with your prices cause for me mythique is $700 more.
"some people get it, some don't" is just a non-argument to pigeonhole people into some imaginary category that makes it easier in your head to dismiss all they say by default"
Yes
@93EXCivic
"no one is forcing you to buy one"
Imagine still telling yourself that I don't have one Whatever makes you feel safe in your little bubble.
"My" prices are the original prices as CRC is a UK company, Idk what's up with Aussie prices. At today's exchange rate it should be 275 AUD difference but oh well. 700 AUD/380 GBP is still nothing for what the bikes are.
There's a knob on most forks that you can use to slow the rebound down, just saying
"I actually own a hardtai BTW lol"
People keep makin em and people keep buyin them, no one here is claiming that "HT makes you faster" or whatever myths you're on about, no one is saying "oh full suspension is useless, it only slows you down"