2017 Orange Five and Alpine 160 - First Look

Jul 11, 2016
by Olly Forster  


It could be argued that the bike industry is constantly looking for ways to over complicate the simple activity of riding a sprung bicycle off-road. Afterall, it's not rocket science, or is it? But amongst all the marketing and technical information which bombards us on a daily basis, it's refreshing to see a brand like Orange, who, for all intents and purposes, have been doing their own thing without deviation and doing it well for longer than most.

Their 'thing' is of course their trademark, made in the UK, single pivot monocoque bikes and while the overall silhouette of these iconic machines has remained virtually the same for nearly 20-years, scratch the surface and what you'll find is a honed and refined piece of engineering. We headed to the Forest of Dean to take a closer look at what the team from Orange have in store for two of their most popular bikes. Their long-standing trail center smasher, the Five and their big mountain conquerer, the Alpine 160.


2017 Orange Five and Alpine 160 - Pinkbike. Photo credit Simon Nieborak
Orange Five
The 'Factory' spec option is packed with the best parts from SRAM, including their new Eagle group and Ultimate brakes, Fox dampers and a carbon Race Face cockpit, but it does come at a price... 5100 GBP.

2017 Orange Five and Alpine 160 - Pinkbike. Photo credit Simon Nieborak
The new Five is packed with updates over previous iterations.
Details:
• Intended use: trail / all-mountain
• Travel: 150mm front, 140mm rear
• 27.5 wheels
• 110mm Boost front and 148mm Boost rear
• 66° head angle
• Monocoque T6061-T6 frame and swingarm
• ISCG 05
• Short 426mm chainstays
• Internal cable routing
• Weight: 13.6kg / 30lb (Factory build, size Large w/tubes)
• Sizes: S, M, L, XL
• Four complete build options available
• MSRPs: £2700 - £5100 GBP


Geometry

The previous Five's geometry was designed around a 140mm fork and while you could run a 150mm fork, which now comes as standard for 2017, it would affect the handling to an extent that it didn't work for everyone. Now, with a totally new main frame, swingarm and pivot location, the engineers at Orange had the blank canvas they needed to rearrange the Five's geometry, which is now optimised for a longer and burlier 150mm travel fork.

2017 Orange Five and Alpine 160 - Pinkbike. Photo credit Simon Nieborak

2017 Orange Five and Alpine 160 - Pinkbike. Photo credit Simon Nieborak
The most significant geometry updates include the bottom bracket dropping an additional 8mm, loosing 6mm from chainstay and 8mm overall from the wheelbase and bucking the trend for long front centres, the new Five has a lost a few mm's per size (approx 5mm) in reach.


New Mainframe and Swingarm

bigquotesThe entire frame has been comprehensively reworked from one end to the other. Every part has been subjected to a thorough re-engineering and weight saving programme. The result of which is that not a single component used in the construction of the frame is shared with the outgoing model. - Ashley Ball, Managing Director, Orange Bikes.

2017 Orange Five and Alpine 160 - Pinkbike. Photo credit Simon Nieborak
The curved and beautifully indented top tube is the most visually striking part of the new mainframe.

The new swingarm is shorter, stiffer and lighter than the previous model, offering increased tyre clearance and a cosmetic overhaul to boot.

2017 Orange Five and Alpine 160 - Pinkbike. Photo credit Simon Nieborak
Talking of cosmetics, someone's put a lot of time and...
2017 Orange Five and Alpine 160 - Pinkbike. Photo credit Simon Nieborak
effort into creating this gorgeous looking piece of engineering.


Kinematics Overhaul

The Five's new pivot construction and shock placement help to increase the level of progression at the end of the spring curve. In a similar fashion to what Orange achieved with their 324 DH bike, effectively lowering the shock into the frame to deliver the desired level of initial sensitivity, support in the middle and ending stroke progression. This is more often than not achieved in other single pivot designs (to, which there are many) via a complex linkage system.


2017 Orange Five and Alpine 160 - Pinkbike. Photo credit Simon Nieborak
Lowering the shock further into the downtube gave the engineers at Orange the progressive spring curve they wanted.


Boost Activated

Here's something for the commenters to moan about... Yes, the new Five has Boost front and rear and while Boost's advantages are less so in a 650b chassis, especially over a 29er, they don't negate any disadvantages either. Delivering a marginally stiffer and stronger wheel at a paltry cost of weight, Boost actually makes sense. Expect to see a lot of bikes going full-on Boost mode for 2017...

2017 Orange Five and Alpine 160 - Pinkbike. Photo credit Simon Nieborak
An extra 10mm in width up front and...
2017 Orange Five and Alpine 160 - Pinkbike. Photo credit Simon Nieborak
6mm in the rear, never hurt anyone or has it?


Internal Routing

Internal cable routing might not be the most exciting thing in the world of advanced bicycle manufacturing, but it does make for a cleaner looking bike. With less to rattle, snag and come loose, it's great to see Orange add internal routing on the Five's mainframe.

2017 Orange Five and Alpine 160 - Pinkbike. Photo credit Simon Nieborak
A 1.5" headtube means offset headset compatibility...
2017 Orange Five and Alpine 160 - Pinkbike. Photo credit Simon Nieborak
The new internal cable ports are neat and tidy and add to the overall aesthetic.



Five Questions with Ashley Ball and Kelvin Lawton from Orange Bikes:


You’ve stuck with the single pivot system for a long time. What are its advantages and can you dispel any myths associated with it?
Ashley - Adding complexity to solve an engineering problem doesn’t equate to advanced engineering. Having the ability to solve an engineering problem while implementing a simple solution does. If you can make a single pivot design work then why would you choose another solution?


Can you give us a rundown on where our readers overseas can purchase Orange bikes, if there is no regional distributor?
Kelvin - In a small number of countries there are distributors but in many territories, we go directly to the dealer. The best port of call is to use our dealer locator on the website to find your nearest store. If you are in an area without a dealer, have your local bike shop contact us at Orange and we’ll be able to go from there.


2017 Orange Five and Alpine 160 - Pinkbike. Photo credit Simon Nieborak
Overall the updates to the new Five address much of the feedback garnered from the outgoing model and while we didn't have enough time to form an opinion on the new Five, we will get one in for testing soon, so watch this space.


Can you tell us more about the grey colour used on these pre-production bikes?
Kelvin - This new grey finish will be one of our custom colour options for next year and will be called 'Norlando Grey'. There's a certain famous German car brand who have a similar colour that they call 'Nardo Grey' in reference to a test track which they use and near to our office, there is an area called Norland Moor where we sometimes ride... So Norlando Grey seemed fitting.


What’s the story behind the ‘STRANGE’ moniker used on your prototype and pre-production bikes?
Ashley - 'Strange' is a sub-brand of Orange Bikes and it represents our specific technologies range. The 'Strange' branding appears on our components range and our technical clothing etc. Prototypes are generally built to test Specific Technologies to see if they bring any benefits so it works for that purpose too - a bit like 'skunk works' if you like. It also helps in these days of social media etc to identify that the products are prototypes and development mules, not production bikes when they are spotted out and about getting put through their paces.


Can you tell us more about your custom paint and graphics program?
Kelvin - For 2017 the number of custom colours we will be able to offer will increase to 10 with 'Fizzy Orange' and Black being free and the other eight having a £100 (GBP) surcharge. This option is only available on our full suspension bikes and RS spec Crush and P7 hardtails. We also have three decal colours to choose from (black, white and orange) but we are looking to expand on this and hopefully, to be confirmed, offer up to six different options. Tying in the paint options and the huge number of custom spec options gives our consumers a great opportunity to have something different and have a unique product. (note: there's also talk of custom fork, shock and rim decals too, so keep an eye out...)





2017 Orange Five and Alpine 160 - Pinkbike. Photo credit Simon Nieborak
Orange Alpine 160
Born in West Yorkshire and engineered to take on the worlds most brutal terrain and trails, the Alpine 160's imposing silhoutte remains as does it's no holds barred ride character...

2017 Orange Five and Alpine 160 - Pinkbike. Photo credit Simon Nieborak
Dishing out stability... A 1231mm wheelbase is not to be sniffed at.
Details:
• Intended use: all-mountain / enduro
• Travel: 170mm front, 160mm rear
• 27.5 wheels
• 110mm Boost front and 148mm Boost rear
• 64.5° head angle
• Monocoque T6061-T6 frame and swingarm
• Updated pivot point and kinematics
• Short 430mm chainstays
• Internal cable routing
• Weight: 14.06kg / 31lb (Factory build, size Large w/tubes)
• Sizes: S, M, L, XL
• Four complete build options available
• MSRPs: £2900 - £5200 GBP

2017 Orange Five and Alpine 160 - Pinkbike. Photo credit Simon Nieborak
2017 Orange Five and Alpine 160 - Pinkbike. Photo credit Simon Nieborak
In a similar fashion to the Five, the Alpine's BB has dropped, this time by 6mm, gone half a degree slacker in the headtube and half a degree steeper in the seattube, stack heights have increased significantly and the stays have lost 9mm in length. Similarly, reach and wheelbase have also had the chop, but thankfully not by much.


The new Alpine 160 carries many of the updates also found on the new Five. From the new shock position, internal cable routing to adopting the Boost standard, yet the Alpine 160 is more than just the Five's rough-and-tough big brother. It is however optimised for 170mm forks - an increasingly popular option in Europe and thanks to the updated geometry, the Alpine 160's big mountain pedigree is hard to fault.


2017 Orange Five and Alpine 160 - Pinkbike. Photo credit Simon Nieborak
The new swingarm is visually the first thing that hits you and is all the more striking when you compare it to the outgoing model, swapping the industrial look for something more finite and refined, which is exactly what the new Alpine 160 is...

bigquotesThe new pivot has improved the overall suspension action and feel while allowing the rear swingarm to be shorter and stiffer. The bike pedals more efficiently as well and along with the new front shock mount and downtube pressing, the new pivot placement allows us to better position the shock within the frame giving better suspension performance. - Ashley Ball.

2017 Orange Five and Alpine 160 - Pinkbike. Photo credit Simon Nieborak
The new pivot is wider and stiffer than previous designs.

2017 Orange Five and Alpine 160 - Pinkbike. Photo credit Simon Nieborak
The formed top tube has also received a complete overhaul and is...
2017 Orange Five and Alpine 160 - Pinkbike. Photo credit Simon Nieborak
packed with lines that ooze quality and refinement.

bigquotesDon't worry, it's still an Alpine - we know what we like - it's just been turned up to 11. Improved suspension feel and better pedalling efficiency in a lighter package were on the to-do list and that's what you've got. Both the Five and the Alpine now have a more progressive spring curve which has been helped by the forming on the downtube below the shock head. It means we can get the top of the shock slightly lower and this helps us gain the spring curve we wanted. - Ashley Ball.

2017 Orange Five and Alpine 160 - Pinkbike. Photo credit Simon Nieborak
The new shock position and the adjustability of Fox's X2 air can should help riders who regularly find themselves running out of travel...


2017 Orange Alpine 160 Ride Impressions

With cameras and notepads packed away, there was just enough time at the end of the day to hit the hill and get some runs in with local uplift providers, Flyup. The 'official' downhill tracks at the Forest of Dean are fun and flowy with enough turns and roots to keep things technical and challenging at speed. They also suit shorter travel bikes with progressive geometry - effectively mini DH bikes like the Alpine 160. With the clock ticking and without getting too bogged down with setting the suspension up and knowing that the bike had been previously set up for another rider, I simply set the sag front and rear and reigned in the rebound on the forks. From the outset, everything felt pretty good, which is a good sign for a new bike and with the weather going from glorious sunshine to a perpetual deluge within minutes, I was far more focussed on staying upright as a thin coating of greasy mud soon covered the trails...


2017 Orange Five and Alpine 160 - Pinkbike. Photo credit Simon Nieborak


Riding over and onto the myriad of wet roots that litter the FOD's landscape, the overall feeling of resolute comfort and stability was eye opening and a welcome attribute on such slippery features. The long 1231mm wheelbase on the size large bike, which is long, even for a DH bike, certainly had a helping hand. And with a wheelbase measuring 45mm longer than a similarly sized 650b Specialized Enduro, 30mm longer than a YT Capra and with a headtube a whole degree and a half slacker than a Whyte G-160, the Alpine 160 doesn't muck about in the geometry department and it was evident after a just few pedal strokes. In corners, the Alpine 160 preferred a more refined and direct approach, leaving the brakes firmly alone and letting its generous proportions and a good lean take you round. It didn't want any funny business here, just point and shoot.


2017 Orange Five and Alpine 160 - Pinkbike. Photo credit Simon Nieborak
2017 Orange Five and Alpine 160 - Pinkbike. Photo credit Simon Nieborak


And similarly with steep rutted sections of trail and dodgy, hastily constructed gaps, the Alpine 160 didn't give off any fun-loving vibes, just aim for the other side and you'll get there unscathed and grinning... More time on the bike and playing with the suspension will have offered up some playfulness, but different strokes for different folks. While my time on the Alpine 160 was limited, I never the less came away with a smile on my face. Fast, balanced and above all else, stable on or over whatever I pointed it at, it felt like a steam roller.


2017 Orange Five and Alpine 160 - Pinkbike. Photo credit Simon Nieborak

Forest of Dean mountain biking trails

We would just like to extend a huge thank you to the team at Flyup Downhill for the afternoon laps.
Awesome trails and a stellar uplift service as always!



MENTIONS: @orangebikes



Must Read This Week

271 Comments

  • + 209
 Am I the only one who thinks these bikes look ugly? Looks like it's been made from leftover bits of metal from the Titanic ffs.
  • + 801
 In which case it should descend pretty quickly.
  • + 118
 @GeeHad: DAMN THATS SAVAGE
  • + 39
 Reminds me of sub 2010 downhills like bighits and norcos....
  • - 7
flag garethbradley (Jul 11, 2016 at 1:26) (Below Threshold)
 Agree - I want to love Orange bikes, but I just can't get over the look of them. I'll stick with my Santa Cruz Nomad C, built from the ground up with my top shelf component choices and cost about the same amount thanks.
  • + 16
 said that a few years back on PB, got millions of dislikes xD
  • + 5
 @garethbradley: I totally agree with you. I want to love them but I just can't. The other guy said it looks like it's made our of leftovers, the welding and the rest, C'mom. Friend of mine has alpine 160, I took it fora ride and must say they are good, very good indeed, but just the look puts me down so much.
  • + 2
 i agree but i know a lot of people who think they are super nice but i just don't see it!
  • + 5
 The color is not really that interesting at all, but an orange, red etc. colored Orange looks way better!
  • + 6
 I've got an Orange Crush and love it; it's an absolute weapon. However, I totally agree on the full sus bikes, pretty ugly. Also, bloody expensive and, maybe it's just me, but I don't see the reason why they are much more expensive than equally as good alternatives?

No doubt we'll see all the riders down the popular trail centres rocking their spanking new 2017 frames though (albeit cruising down flat blue runs with all the latest flashy new kit on show).
  • + 7
 Agreed, but it needn't be like that. You only have to look at a Morewood Zula to see what a mono-pivot should/can look like. The appeal of a simple design is huge however - 2 suspension bearings vs the 14 in my bike. No contest on cheap simple maintenance...
  • + 0
 @matthewjam3s: you obviously like your crush. Do you ride it as a trail bike or as a dh/play/jump bike? Do you find it harsh given the alloy frame? Any experience with the P7 as its same geo but steel!?
Yeah i said below that their hardtails are awsome bikes and good value but i agree their full sussers dont cut it!
  • + 3
 @slowrider73: I've ridden it on just about everything and got rid of my other bikes as it's just so good. I had a jump bike but took the Crush to my local pumptrack the other day and it was awesome; slightly slower rolling due to the beefier tyres but had no problems doing the same manual lines and jumps I normally do. I've also ridden a bit of trail trials on it (in one of my edits) and generally use it as a trail bike.

I haven't found it to be overly harsh; braking bumps are much harsher but that's to be expected. The head angle makes it super planted over rough stuff and I've ridden all my local DH tracks on it and it's great fun, weight distribution is good on the steeps and it jumps really well. I'm gonna put together an edit of it soon on the pumptrack, local jumps and Dh tracks just to show what it's capable of as it blows me away every ride.
  • + 1
 @matthewjam3s: yeah nice one mate! Ever since i saw Phil Atwill destroying sh#t on his ive had my eye on one! Problem is that ive got a cotic bfe 26 now which i love but wanna step it up to 27.5 so a new horse is on the cards. Looking at the stanton too but i want it to be lighter than my cotic. Crush is alloy so would be a bit lighter. You do much trail/xc on yours? A struggle or ok? Ta mate
  • + 1
 @matthewjam3s: just watched your vid with Willow! You got it sussed mate. Out with your dog just ridin and havin fun. Good stuff! Bike looks really versatile too. Think youve convinced me! ......is yours stock? Any parts advice etc!
Nice one!
  • + 4
 I like my bikes like a like my women: smooth, light and curvy. Not jagged with big welds.
  • + 4
 @slowrider73: Yea the Phil Atwill video made up my mind too after riding downhill for a while. Mine is stock apart from, Hope Tech Enduro wheels on Hope Pro 3 hubs, KS Integra dropper post and superstar grips. I also changed the Maxxis Ardent rear tyre to a minion for a bit more grip on my local trails. So stock (ish).

I've done plenty of XC stuff and it is pretty light so I haven't struggled. It's not the lightest bike uphill but I've genuinely not noticed and after riding mainly downhill, I'm not the fittest cardio-wise so I'd recommend it. It's the best all-rounder I've ridden and I'm not scared to go over big stuff with it that I'd normally have reserved solely for the big bike.
  • + 3
 No bottlemount? So not enduro bro!
  • + 1
 @matthewjam3s: many thanks mate. Yeah a dropper is a must have on it! Good to get unbiased advice. Really appreciate it. Good man!
  • - 1
 @melias24: or a mix of a bullit and a commencal 5.5.
  • + 1
 @slowrider73: No worries! Also, I'm 5"11 and a medium is perfect. One thing everyone mentioned is the longer reach but I haven't found that an issue at all when on the back wheel or on jumps. Enjoy it if you get one!
  • + 15
 "Marmite" best describes the Orange bikes
  • + 2
 @GeeHad: nicely done, sir!
  • + 60
 "Orange bikes are ugly" is with Pinkbike since the very beginning, It's a classic like "UCI sucks", "looks like a Session", "Flat pedals FTW" or "29ers are gay". So insightful and meaningful... Meanwhile everyone's cool with Nomad in pink or baby blue. Cuz it's carbon and Syndicate rides them. C'm on guys get more creative. The matter of a fact is that these are simple, no BS bikes, honing qualities that most of us here claim to seek. There is no pleasing you Mishter Powersh
  • - 2
 Also anybody else think his answer was a bit of a cop out when asked about single pivot.I just can't see how single offers up a better platform over virtually every other type of suspension design.Also was the colour and what stickers you can have really the only questions you could think of?
  • + 3
 @slowrider73: I sold my Bfe a while back and now have a P7 it's a great bike but so was my Bfe, it's nice to have a change but I feel I ended up spending a lot of money to basically have a similar experience on slightly bigger wheels!
  • + 8
 @Ziph: How many bike brands offer a custom paint and decal service and are you an expert on suspension kinematics?
  • + 1
 @matthewjam3s: your edit with willow is really damm good, good music, good trails, good bike (awesome doge) just makes us wanna go ride.
  • - 1
 @WAKIdesigns: Actually, previous Orange bikes haven't really bothered me that much. This one in particular though, like I said....looks like its been made from scrap bits of metal, covered with leftover paint from the Navy shipyard.

If I'm gonna pay £5100 for my bike then I want to at least see the beautiful handmade welds.
  • + 2
 @Bumpkin123: yes i hear ya! My thoughts too. Am thinking of a steel 29er hardtail like the Stanton Sherpa etc etc then keep my cotic. ........that crush sounds/looks nice too! Aaagghhh. Too many choices! ;-)
  • + 1
 @ronanwhitts: Ah sweet! Thanks man!
  • - 1
 @ollyforster: I never claimed to be a suspension guru but having ridden many alpines and 5's compared to my patrol it's night & day in terms of suspension performance/feel. I also know some people prefer single pivot as it gives them more feedback on the trail.Also my mate has broke 2 swingarms on his alpine, the 2nd one lasted 2weeks before cracking in the alps last week because the axle holes didn't line up.So much for precision engineering I guess.With regard to colours and stickers I don't think that's really a selling point, a good bike priced right with excellent suspension and handling will sell in whatever colour they choose for the year.
  • + 2
 Looks like an Ellsworth screwed its sister then soaked the baby is nuclear waste.
  • + 6
 Of course, looks is the most important thing for a bike right?
  • + 28
 If anyone here thinks they would be held back by riding a single pivot, then they are sorely mistaken. 100% BS. Each design has its benefits and flaws, you adapt and learn to how to use it to its full potential. People who like to ride the brakes, well they probably won't jive well with a single pivot. Those who can work the bike and let the bike run, then you will be rewarded. Single pivots also seem to settle into corners better. That's just my seat of the pants feel without any numbers to back it up.

I would love to try an Orange.
  • + 8
 @ardee: who gives a toss what they look like?they just do what they're supposed to do and do it very well.ive had them,got them and they're shithot none Wendy bikes.unlike my wendywoo sb6c I'm poncing around on nowFrown
  • + 1
 Makes me like my Alpine from the 26" days even more, looks pleasantly 'industrial' and angular. If Orange want to move with the times why don't they use hydroformed aluminium not that ugly stuff?
  • + 0
 Ya not my cup of tea neither!
  • + 0
 deleted
  • + 2
 @WayneParsons: could not agree more with your statement coming from many hecklers, tried multi pivot bikes, but when you ride lots the extra maintenance does not seem worth it, single pivot all the way.

Plus at least the heckler desends like no other am bike I have tried
  • + 2
 This bike isn't ugly, in my personal opinion they have to work in the rear design, is just that part where shock connects with the rear pivot, that's where engineering and designing has to be connected. Excuse me if I'm wrong.
  • + 2
 @WayneParsons: Exactly - never seen it better written. Oranges - and I have a 5 and a 224 - benefit from being blasted straight down 'route 1'. They last forever too.
  • + 11
 An issue of acquired taste or not, I am sick of 90% of bikes looking like a fkng Trek. Today I rode a fantastic NS Snabb, it still looks like most bikes these days. Awesome, but you die a bit inside. Orange stands out and as @WayneParsons pointed out, there are pros and cons to every design, after all, most of it sits in the damper. If you salivate on a Following, Sb-6, Nomad or S-Works Enduro with a Float or Monarch, then please stop whining because a single pivot with Float X2 or CCDB coil will blow them shtless.
  • + 4
 @WAKIdesigns: hmmm..not sure about them being totally blown out the water..but I can guarantee you can get up and ride an orange after rolling down the eiger and sell it 5yrs later for top money.how many old bikes hold their value like an orange?and it's easy to explain why,great fun,great after sales service and a piece of piss to work on.tup
  • - 5
flag zer0c00l44 (Jul 11, 2016 at 12:55) (Below Threshold)
 They have managed to make their ugly bikes even uglier. Well done orange.
  • + 1
 @boostin: I was thinking of the heckler as I was reading the review. Wondering how they compare. I have a butcher with too is a single pivot with a link. Like of like an in between a heckler and a nomad.
  • - 2
 If you think the bike looks ugly, wait till you see one in the flesh. Welds and aesthetics of agricultural machinery.
  • + 7
 @Earthmotherfu: I never ever think of resale value when buying a bike. There is a group of people who claim that their bikes hold the value, and those are lying basterds: husbands and boyfriends, motivating the making of yet another hole in the family budget.
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: Venetta Pantera FTW! Buddy has one from 03, way ahead of the game back then
  • + 0
 as a fan of orange bikes and all the bikes i own are orange these are ugly as hell and stupid boost bullshit ill stick to my older 08 patriot
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: me neither but some folk do I'm sure of that.bikes holding value is a load of bollocks.im fortunate that my wife has no interest in bikes and what I do with my money,suffice to say I've no interest in macrame knitting either and the cost of Shetland woolSmile

2nd hand orange bikes do command a premium mind you.
  • + 1
 @GeeHad: you made my day (well, night)
  • + 4
 @WayneParsons: "People who like to ride the brakes, well they probably won't jive well with a single pivot. Those who can work the bike and let the bike run, then you will be rewarded."

- That sums it up perfectly. I used to ride a Cannondale Prophet; a bike I'd still consider as a "good" single pivot design and despite it's age (well, now anyway) and it's relative simplicity, it was still years ahead of it's time in the ride quality it delivered if you knew how to get the most out of it. I still miss the way that bike rode now.

A sorted, well thought out single pivot will always have a place in mountain biking as the simple fact of the matter is, they hold their own against multi linkage designs, e.t.c. very well.

Try and Orange - you won't regret it Smile
  • + 6
 I think they came up with a nice look that gives them a "niche". So many bikes end up looking the same. For a single pivot this has a little bit of a different flair. A bit industrial/mechanical. But also has some organic lines. I like it, but it doesn't necessarily hit the top of the aesthetics list for me... And for those that ask, yes, how something looks does matter. It's not the MOST important thing, but it affects every buying decision we make on EVERYTHING...

And no doubt a single pivot with a modern shock is a totally legitimate choice. BUT... cost! Today's bike sdon't burn through bearings/pivots the way they used to. So although the maintenance consideration is a "pro" in a single pivot bikes favor. It's not the "slam dunk" it used to be. If I was looking at another suspension platform with the same spec for the same cost it's pretty unlikely I'd pick the single pivot? (however I don't ride in UK much either... so?)
  • + 1
 I guess some bad habits die hard.
  • + 1
 I just found this today, amazing piece of a simple bike from Katipo bikes:
www.pinkbike.com/photo/9634292

I say fk the Session... I mean Trek is cool, just otheres could get more creative...
  • + 7
 @matthewjam3s: they are expensive because about 10 extremely qualified welders in Yorkshire have to get paid a decent living. Most other brands with manufactures in asia can aford to bring the price down by mass production and cheaper lavour. I cannot aford one but if I had the 5grand I would kindly drop the dosh in Yorkshire and contribute to my local economy.
  • + 1
 @HON82: I own an Orange so I'm more than happy to drop my dosh in Yorkshire. I just don't get the hype with the full sussers, even after having ridden them. They're really solid bikes but there's just a lot of other well crafted machines for cheaper that arguably ride better.
  • + 0
 agreed, in fact I think they look poorly made. Frankenstein.
  • + 1
 @GeeHad: hahahaha
  • + 47
 Sorry, but I think they look great! I've got a 2011 five that still looks mint as they're powder coated, not wet paint. My 5 month old YT tues is peppered with paint chips, and it's not because it gets more of a thrashing as I was using the five at the same downhill spots (Revolution, Antur) as I am the YT. I don't mind the slightly industrial look (!) - function over form, and I like all the new creases on these frames. As for the single pivot argument - there's lots of others out there, but it's always Orange that gets the stick. And as we're all such eco-warriors, diligently picking up our power bar wrappers and High5 Gel packets (other brands are available), recyclable aluminium has got to be better than carbon...
  • + 16
 Why they refuse to make their bikes to look ike a session?
  • + 5
 Dead on. Best thing about single pivots is that they survive winter and don't gather mud, lay off the brakes with a good shock and they are as fast as anything. Plus they have the geometry nailed . And maybe I'm odd but I like the really look of the new frame .
  • + 1
 @chyu: its another Brexit from Session like looking bikes Wink
  • + 38
 Seems to be a lot of "outdated this" and "ugly that"
If you get a chance go and ride one. Having ridden a Four, Five and 160 (why don't they call it a 6?), back to back with offerings from Whyte and Santa Cruz, I will say they are easily the match for VPP and linkage driven designs. Like with everything in life you may need to adapt a little but I had no problems rocking around on any of them.
As for looks? Well I would say well over half the people in the world would describe me as an overweight, unattractive man. But yet my wife still likes me. So you cannot please everyone evidently. I think the Grey looks a bit drab though.
The only real obstacle is the price. And this is going to be an uphill struggle. It is easy to get your bikes manufactured in faceless factories a thousand miles away. But in these increasingly gash times it is good that they are trying to remain UK based supporting the economy in their own little way. You can jump for joy at your cheap manufactured (I didn't say poor quality) frames and components but I think people should be equally enthused by home grown, home produced products.
  • + 3
 Will have to see how Brexit affects them, and Hope of course Etc. Could well be a double edged sword.
  • + 6
 @Andy-ap: I work for a small manufacturing firm and initially it was good. With exchange rates suddenly in our customers favour they bought a lot of stock. In that short time frame the drop in the pound had not affected our running costs so we made a reasonable amount. Now it is turning ugly as we buy our raw materials from abroad and this will affect overheads adversely.
Don't know what this will mean for the bike and component manufacturing industry though as they are luxury goods whereas we deal in infrastructure
  • + 3
 @tufty: It means basically that everything that is imported to the UK will cost more GBPs than before - bike parts and frames constructed in UK included as well (more expensive raw materials from abroad).
  • + 4
 I think VPP is probably the worst "modern" design I have tried. But that said, it would never hold anyone back.
  • - 5
flag betsie (Jul 11, 2016 at 10:58) (Below Threshold)
 I have a nomad. Have ridden a 5, patriot, alpine and others. Tallboy, foxy, sb66. All on yhe same climb and descent on the same day.

The tallboy was pants (10 attempts with 0 cleans)
The 5 was terrible (0/10)
The patriot terrible (0/10)
The alpine terrible (0/10)
The sb66 great... cleaned 2nd go
The foxy good... cleaned 4th go
The mk2 nomad... stock .. pants (0/10)
The mk2 Nomad. .. longer shock... good.. 2nd go.
Later.... the mk2 Nomad with push link ... great cleaned 1st go.. pretty much every go also.
Will be my riding style suiting a bike, possibly/probably not the bike.
It's great owning a bike that doesn't work and modifying it to make it work.
I wonder how the new oranges would get on...
  • + 2
 @betsie: Dont know why you have negative props for this. You have ridden a bunch of bikes and given your honest opinion. You also admit it might be your riding style.
It does make me realise how useless a review of a bike really is. Because your opinion contradicts other peoples doesn't make it wrong.
Obviously you didn't have time to write out an objective breakdown of why you thought various bikes were good or bad but it would be interesting to read your thoughts.
  • + 3
 @tufty: it's fine. It's the way pinkbike works.
I would consider myself a reasonable rider, with a good and solid riding ability.
I am technically ok also.
How a bike performs is also impacted by whet you ride it on.
  • + 3
 I owned a Patriot 7+ for a few years and spent a a lot of money upgrading the suspension, but it always just rode like crap. Worse was how damn ugly it was. the single pivot has tons of issues that I as a rider, not an engineer, noticed ALL THE TIME. That said, it does have a unique quality that for some reason I enjoyed, but I go way faster more comfortably on my vpp bike.
  • + 40
 a beautiful piece of handcrafted British engineering
  • + 6
 Just like London's taxis.
  • + 8
 @karoliusz: And McLaren's...
  • + 6
 @jclnv: And bacon sandwiches....
  • + 0
 Where are we going with this? Smile
  • + 2
 @arna86: F1 racing.
  • + 36
 Look at that monster. If I owned one, I think I'd end up saying "Smashing!" a lot more than any American has a right to.
  • + 7
 While simultaneously smashing.
  • + 3
 My mum says smashing. But with a broad Yorkshire accent so it will be lost on you. But funny non the less
  • + 28
 Single pivots work and must be getting better as the shocks improve. Nothing wrong with the design and if you riding through the British winter and want a British made bike, Orange is the way. Keep up the good work Orange
  • - 6
flag m0ngy (Jul 11, 2016 at 7:30) (Below Threshold)
 Sure they work, the Heckler works fine, as does the Foes FXR. The argument isn't that they merely 'work', it's that multi-link designs, such as VPP, work a hell of a lot better, both up and down the mountain.
  • + 6
 @m0ngy: I found the opposite. I never got along with VPP designs. Some of them seem to have too much influence on the suspension curve. There is almost always a dead spot mid travel, something you can't simply tune out with shock settings. Single pivots are easier to tune in my experience.
  • + 3
 Or Empire as a cheaper but still bespoke alternative
  • + 1
 I had a 1999 patriot which I didn't keep long and sold the frame for a Santa Cruz chameleon, which I still have and was riding until 6 months ago. I didn't have a full sus again until 5 years ago and now I have a nomad and a banshee legend so yeah I prefer VPP but Orange's are still cool
  • + 23
 £5100... that's santa cruz territory...
  • + 114
 True, but keep in mind £5100 today isn't the same as £5100 3 weeks ago. #Brexit
  • + 5
 @ChubzyWubzy: HAHAHAHA
  • + 12
 It may be close to santa cruz money but it is handmade while santa cruz bikes are moulded overseas, but I agree they are fairly spendy and the direct sellers can offers better package than either santa cruz or orange can now.
  • + 5
 @Racer951: it wasn't a criticism more an observation, I have 2 bikes, one orange and one santa cruz, so a fan of both brands.. one a "boutique brand" top end carbon machine, the other an english hand made aluminium. whilst i love both bikes. the fact that one is hand made and one is moulded means sweet f all.

There's no way I'd choose to pay £5k for an orange when I can buy a carbon SC for the same money. just no way at all...
  • + 4
 @ChubzyWubzy: I'd upvote that but it makes me sad because it's true
  • + 1
 @ChubzyWubzy: yeah but if you live in the UK it is the same!
  • - 9
flag Ferisko (Jul 11, 2016 at 2:18) (Below Threshold)
 @Racer951: Pretty much all carbon frames are handmade (the lay up of the carbon) and require at least the same amount of manual labor as making an AL frame, if not more. So we can say both are hand made. The only difference is where the labor comes from, and tbh I'd take a frame made by a skilled Asian worker over a bloke from England any day (given the reputation of how "reliable" products of British engineering are).
  • + 2
 If you think that cheap £ = cheaper bikes, you are wrong. All manufacturers from country with cheaper currency will eventually rise prices, because it will be more profitable for them to export goods than selling them locally. So expect higher prices in £ to compensate currency value decrease (or put other way, prices will remain constant in EUR).
  • + 16
 @Ferisko: says a bloke from Slovakia, a country well known for propelling the world into the industrial era with its magnificent feats of engineering
  • + 7
 @ad15: orange are a boutique brand
  • + 4
 between the two, id choose orange. both will probably last the same, but orange will be cheaper in maintenance.
  • + 1
 @mikeyspaff: .....nice one mikey!
  • + 1
 @ugez: no more crap 26
  • + 3
 @ad15: watch this video from Giant and it will probably change your mind about how handmade a carbon fiber bike is m.youtube.com/watch?v=YPx-pvngMAo
  • - 1
 @jasdo: you can teach a monkey to do that
  • + 3
 @ad15: sorry but santa cruz aren't boutique anymore. They are mass produced far eastern bikes. Nothing wrong with that but no longer any more boutique than specialized or trek
  • + 1
 @jasdo: @jasdo: i've been to a few of the giant factories, as well as other brands, and already seen how it's done with my own eyes Smile
  • + 15
 I personnally like it !! But the problem with these bikes is their price .. Orange framesets are too expensive compared to better bargains ! Just looks at YT where their CURRENT offer is the following: as long as gwin is number 1 on rankings, ( basicly until the end of the year Big Grin ) they decrease their prices of 800€-1000$ on the capra ....so for 4200€ = 4700 $ usd !!!! And tou have everything carbon and kashima .... !!! (Awesome)

While with the Orange alpine its 5100£ =5900 euros = 6600$ usd and you're sure to have an aluminum frame and no real top-of-the-range components....

If you re looking for the best offer.. Dont go to Orange, that is all. But if you dont like YT, or carbon, or particully like riding on a frame made in your country, and that you re ready to pay more just for the welders' magnificent work, then go alpine ! Big Grin
  • + 5
 In fairness, the pound is cheap at the moment. So these bikes are as cheap as they've ever been outside the UK. That would be incentive to me, if I lived outside the UK.
  • + 6
 Oranges ride awesome, not sure these are the best looking of the bunch ever produced from Halifax, but as you said, their biggest curse as a brand is the pricing - its flat out ridiculous for a bike that has less bearings, less marketing bs (which costs a lot) and isn't made of carbon, not that I want a carbon bike. I'd love to own an Orange again after loving my old Patriot back in the day, but the price is leagues over the top compared to other brands
  • + 0
 @ctd07: totally agree. Their hardtails, the P7 and Crush are very very well priced and kitted out with some decent gear. But their full sussers aren't so well priced and as you said their frames are pretty simple pivots and bearings wise. Given that the suspension models cant really be that much more difficult to produce than their hardtails plus one set of bearings and an axle it doesn't add up. They do ride nice though but for the coin their weight is not competitive with similar priced bikes from other manufacturers.
Im looking forward to seeing their 2017 hardtail tange more than their suspension range!! ........P7 29er would be on point!!
  • + 13
 I don't consider more pivots and the use of carbon something that adds so much more value to a frame. Sure pivots costs money, carbon may be more expensive than the aluminium used here but at the end of the day the most expensive thing is always going to be the development manual labour that went into it. Whoever welds that rear end for the Five is a true artist. Of course the smaller numbers they produce implies that the may not be able to use mass production techniques like hydroforming, which could be a good solution as well for these complex shapes. Then again, just like Hope, this technique enables them to do a lot in house and modify the product if they see fit. I definitely like them.

That said, it would be interesting to see what a proper single pivit bike nowadays would cost using conventional techniques, welding tubes together and such. Cannondale discontinued the Gemini, Prophet and Rush bikes and the lower end bikes were definitely very affordable for something that said "made in the USA". But I think a lot of product managers closely follow these comments here (we listen to the customer, they say) and read stuff like @RedBurn mentioned. "So people are willing to pay considerably more for a multi-pivot bike than for a single pivot? Then that's what we'll do!" I read an interview with the guy who developed the Airdrop Edit. He wanted to build a full susser. He thought single pivot bikes looked to simple so went for a multi-pivot bike. Because of that! Nuts.

If you allow for a link to decouple the shock from sideways loads, the Kona Process (if you need a complete bike) or Alutech ICB2.0 (if you need just a frame) are reasonably affordable single pivot bikes.

But once again, I think these Orange bikes are beautiful and are well worth it.
  • + 1
 @vinay: i really enjoyed reading your opinion and i completely agree
  • - 5
flag m0ngy (Jul 11, 2016 at 7:36) (Below Threshold)
 @vinay: @vinay: "I don't consider more pivots and the use of carbon something that adds so much more value to a frame." Apart from the fact carbon frames employing linkage designs, such as VPP, are much more plush, efficient, light and stiff, ie. dialled, I totally agree... Doh!
  • + 1
 @slowrider73: might have something to do with the crush and P7 being made in the far east too...
  • + 14
 Much as I like the Brittish engieneering and manufacture behind these bikes, the price is too high.

A Commencal Meta with an aluminium frame and similar build can be had for far less money. I'm aware they're built in the Far East but I'd rather keep the £3000 in my pocket.
  • + 3
 this is direct distribution. Orange goes through distributors which then have to make money so put the price higher for the bike shops. they then have to make money so each company making mark up increases the price. why all direct distribution will be cheaper.
  • + 2
 @oli99: That's there problem, and that's why i see more yellow Commencal's than i do Oranges
  • + 1
 @pigman65: It's a huge issue for much of the industry, yes Canyon and YT are great value, but they do it by cutting out dealers, and therefore giving awful customer service. Your bike is broken? Sure, send it to germany rather than your LBS.
It's a great business model, for THEM! it does no favours for anyone else though in the long term.
Cost is relative - the £5k orange 5 shown above is their top-end model. I'm sure they will also sell one that's below £3k. Not cheap, but what you're paying for is customer service and to support your own economy. Want to buy a German bike? Want to buy things off Amazon? Sure they're cheap. But that's money going straight out of our economy and into somebody else's pocket.
  • + 1
 @oli99: as far as outside the UK you are right, but Orange IS the uk distributor so as far as a UK buyer is concerned they are buying direct, which makes them blooming expensive..
  • + 2
 @ad15: that'll be because they're not manufactured in the far east
  • + 1
 I would very much like to hear some of the opinions of the people giving me negative props...
  • + 1
 @sam264: er, i bought a Capra the year they came out, customer service is actually very good if you're lucky.
  • + 2
 @pigman65: If you're lucky?

I'm just interested in your viewpoint, as you have a Transition Scout, which is far from cheap, but that doesn't mean that it isn't good value, as you well know. Why are Orange bikes of a perceived lower value to those people that like to be so vocal about it?
  • + 1
 @sam264:

I could have bought an Black Alpine frame really cheap from my lbs, a 2014 model, my mate who works there has a Black 2015, and he is an animal on it, so i know the bike performs, but i didn't want the same bike.
The frame is heavy and i don't like the single pivot. I just bought a 3 ride old Patrol frame for a grand instead.
I bought a new Five in 2011, i hated it,


Generally i buy secondhand but almost new bikes,
The Scout was 6 months old and cost £2200.

Capra cost £3k new, i sold it in bits for £2300 after 16 months so not too bad an investment


"if you're lucky".... it went pants when they invaded 'Merica due to staff shortages, and anything to do with BOS was out of their control, but i experienced some impressive service with my replacement frame, and new reverbs from Germany quicker than Fischer could replace them. I had alot worse service from Specialized,Tomac,Marin amongst others....
  • + 14
 Does not look like a session
  • + 10
 People who dislike oranges need to ride one. I have 2 oranges and I love them both. Fast, reliable and fun bikes to ride. Isn't that was mountain biking is all about?
  • - 2
 I had one and could never get over 3 things 1 no rear suspension when braking 2 doesn't climb well 3 it was bloody heavy given how much it cost
  • + 2
 @chrismac70: 1. everybody knows single pivots don't work aswell under braking but it just encourages you to stay off the brakes. 2. Iv managed to climb up most hills but it's the descending where it excels. 3. Mine aren't that heavy. The newer bikes have got a lot lighter.
  • + 13
 I like it
  • + 7
 Why is it out of date? It's not bread! It's an engineering system. Just like a chain which hasn't changed in design for a long time. I'll never convince Mr yeti lover but it's all down to your Remit or client requirements.
This is a simple if not the most simple well refined design on the market.
It means low maintainable easy to fix and in my opinion a great bike to ride.
If it's not for you fair enough. I like yeti bikes but the shape shifter tech wouldn't last a winter in the flag up north. So in that respect the Yeti fails.
More parts equals more wear and eventually play.
Orange bikes still podium at local DH and enduro events and if you a private racer the low maintaince and easy to get hold of parts will appeal to you.
If your shape shifter tech goes wrong it's a wait from Germany to fix and time off the bike.
I'm about to buy a new bike. I ridden orange bikes for 10 years in all there forms 5 to 224. I've also had trek remedy and rode a hat load of other bikes.
My next bike will not be an orange 6 it will probably be a Capra or radon swoop.
I except the maintaince issues and worry about the reliability as returns to Germany will be a pain in the ass. But it boils down to cost this time and I'm keeping my trust orange 5. The best bike I've ever owned hands down.
  • + 10
 Every accountant and middle management type is now prepping their Amex black card.
  • + 4
 Haha, so true.
  • + 5
 Such a Marmite debate.

I have an Alpine and I love it. I was lucky enough to ride one of these new Alpines and it blew me away.

If you prefer riding a bike rather than looking at one, there's plenty pros to buying an Orange full sus:

supporting British manufacturing, you don't have to be delicate when riding them, the simple suspension just works and you only have to replace two bearings. If something goes wrong, they're shit hot with customer service too.
  • + 4
 I've got a five and it has been the most reliable thing in my life, I've abused it so much too! 5 weeks in whistler was one of those times. Didn't have any trouble, while other bikes were being shaken to bits. Stupidly expensive though
  • + 6
 Why have they changed the styling?? I love the industrial look of the current models now they've just tried to make industrial look pretty which only has the opposite effect
  • + 1
 Exactly what I was thinking
  • + 1
 Yup, ive have a couple of oranges and i love them to bits but the current changes in looks suck.

the Alpine swingarm, just no. The silly curved tubes and 10 additional gussets slapped on here an there, really ? my 07 patriot looks slick compared to the new 5.

Maybe they should spend less time buggering about with gussets and changing the kinematics and worry about putting the right shock on from factory.
  • + 1
 the best looking bike orange ever made imo was the blood, they stopped making it as it looked different to the normal orange bike standard form, shame realy
  • + 1
 @jaydmf: the alpine swing arm looks like it should be on the five frame and vise versa.
Maybe the new guy built the bikes and no one at Orange has realised
  • + 2
 @mikeyspaff: lol, they should just kill it with fire and go back to the classic box shaped swing arm looks much cleaner and i cant say i ever noticed a problem with it flexing on my old patriot so the only reason i can see for all these bendy tubes is reducing weight which again i dont think any of the older 5s partriots etc had any issues with. Keep it simple thats what orange always used to be about. Its orange bikes not oragami bikes
  • + 3
 @mark3: I'm just on with building a blood can't wait to get it finished ????
  • + 2
 @chug89: great, good luck with the build, I hope you enjoy it as much as I enjoy mine,
  • + 4
 If I don't have anything nice to say, I keep it to myself.. But a single pivot design with that much travel at that price is just absurd.
I bought a 2015 Tallboy carbon with cheap components, and used those cheap components to build a 2015 Santa Cruz Superlight that has a very similar rear suspension to the Orange. The Tallboy is amazing (as always) and the Superlight is the "light" version of it. Works, but a compromise everywhere.
But it's all in fun because the Superlight is a $2k bike with only 4" of rear travel..
  • + 4
 It's ... not really a monocoque is it, given that it's not made from a single piece of anything. Surely just welded together from a collection of (hydroformed) tubes, in the same manner as any other welded metal frame in the last 100 years?

I don't hate it, I'm just mildly bemused (again) by the way pseudo-engineering speak permeates our industry.
  • + 1
 It's welded sheets bent into shape, not tubes that some why they call it a monocoque. I agree with youregards point though it's not a single structure so can't be mono anything
  • + 5
 Wonderfully uncomplicated.
I love the fact they keep doing what they do, the bikes still look like an orange should. Absolutely dig the old school industrial looks.
I would like a 5, 29"er.
  • + 2
 Dear Orange,

Your bike could be the best thing in the world. But nobody wants to ride a rear cs/ss set up like that. It's not appealing, in fact. It's appalling. But again, who am i to say. You guys' are the ones who have a legit Mt. Bike company and i have nothing. This might be a 'unique' thing you guys have going for you, but bag it, or make it look sexy. Because sexy sells. I don't even want to read the review, because no matter how good it is i won't be attracted to it. Attraction is key, as well as performance.

-N00b
  • + 4
 with this grey colourscheme, you would be forgiven for thinking the bike was made in someone's garden shed from old filing cabinets.
  • + 2
 I'm not sure why but I'm really attracted to these bikes. I think the swing arm may be a bit bulky but other than that I love the simplicity of it. I've always enjoyed the look of hand built aluminum bikes. The welds give it character and it's hard to beat that. Idk we'll see might be an option for me in the future.
  • + 1
 Sorry i want to love orange bikes but the price is a bit silly while compared to the same price alternatives. Also that welding looks Seriously rough on the underside of that swing arm to seat post junction bit. Make a carbon front end and get a nice welded up rear section to keep people interested?
  • + 3
 Oh no, some people don't like the look of an Orange full suss bike . . . Big shock. They seem to be doing just fine despite them apparently being hideously ugly though eh.
  • + 1
 Digging the industrial design, love single pivot simplicity, not made in an Asian factory (and that's not saying that there are crap bikes out of those factories, as my stable shows well), and they FINALLY have a disty in the US. Orange, thanks for making my new ride decision process that much easier. May not pedal as well as my DW linked bike, but I will trade that for a ripper on the descents.
  • + 2
 I like them but i can't look at that grommet in the 5's swingarm without cringing. Such a terrible looking placement, i'm sure there are reasons but a hole through a fold when there is a nice 'panel' in front of it.
  • + 3
 Maybe for £2.5K id be tempted but those bikes are too ugly a consider paying £5k plus.

For that money I'd be looking at a Santa Cruz, Transition or a Yeti
  • + 1
 This.
  • + 3
 Am I the only one that thinks these both look like a Santa Cruz Bullit from 10 years ago? Same swingarm? Stupidly reliable however.
  • + 1
 No, you are not the only one! It's exactly what I was thinking. It looks like my buddy's 2002 or 2003 Santa Cruz Superlight. He lent it to me for a friend to ride last summer, and I was taken aback by how dated it looked. I'm not saying this is a bad bike, or a bad design, but it definitely looks dated.
  • + 1
 Yep single pivots suck lol, Commencal Meta bike of the Year 2017 is SINGLE PIVOT, if you riding sucks, its your riding not your bike. P.s Orange is cool, it's MTB heritage, its Brit cool, two fingers at ya, we dont care we going to do it our way. Nothing makes a brit happier than an Orange finished in Hope.
  • + 4
 Sorry baby blue and pink nomad riders but that no bs alpine 160 in gunmetal and x2 is so sexy
  • + 1
 Didn't I know Orange was British, I would've sworn it was russian, like these WWII tanks with absolutely no refinement but which can take a beating and with some clever solutions.
Yet, if I was in the business for a aluminium top-notch bike as the price suggests, I'd rather go for Nicolaï. These are works of art. But as always, props to Orange for staying true to their roots and contributing to the diversity I'm glad we have with bikes!
  • + 1
 I suppose its not surprising how much ignorance there is when it comes to suspension design despite the internet making it all readily available...Humans are not the swiftest lot. A quick perusal over at Linkage Design or you can grab a copy of the app itself for 25 bucks and run the number any way you like. If after spending some time comparing suspension designs on the site or in the app you still don't get it; read these:

bicyclingclassifieds.com.au/2013/05/dual-suspension-myths-marketing

www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear/tech/jacks-not-here-man

If after all that you still don't get it; then please carry on riding your unicorn in lollipop land, there's nothing to see here.
  • + 1
 In picture 6, it looks like the rear mech cable is rubbing itself to death. I honestly can't decide if I like where the cables enter on the downtube or not. They then reappear so they can enter the swing arm and it just looks odd, and its rubbing the grommet pretty badly. I've always like the look of Orange bikes, never ridden one though, bit rare in our part of the world.
  • + 0
 @WAKIdesigns so just because people have an opinion theyre just imbeciles jumping on the bandwagon. Get off your high horse. And get your smug attitude in check. Every single article on here its you and your snide remarks. Youre not as clever a you think you are waki. You like the bike? Good for you but dont chastise people that dont. Who the hell are you to say what people should say or not.
  • + 0
 Twisted pantiesWink
  • + 3
 Well,
The legendary Mountain Cycle’s San Andreas swing arm is still in good use!
  • + 4
 why does the medium frame get a longer reach than the large frame???
  • + 1
 "swapping the industrial look for something more finite and refined"

I'm a little confused by this comment - in what way is the new swingarm more finite? I can't work out what that means in this context.
  • + 3
 What? 2500 pounds for aluminium single-pivot frame? With this ugly weldings. No, thanks
  • - 2
 The welds like like the they were squeezed out of a tube of tooth paste. It's a shame, since smoothing the welds would look so much better with the tube profiles.
  • + 1
 Its all about saying you re riding on an Orange
  • + 1
 @RedBurn: It is looks like a sect Smile
Praying on an invisible advantages
  • + 4
 The fact of the matter is that everyone is holding different bike features as a priority and majority of riders do not push their bikes even to 50% of what they are capable of.

Absolute majority of riders will not distinguish a single pivot from VPP with their eyes closed.

Ugly welds? First of all, technically they look perfectly fine, second - is it a beauty contest?
  • + 1
 you lost me on the 'ugly welds'.
  • + 1
 @Skinnyman: kent eriksen weldings are beautiful, Giant/Specialized - are good, but not this.
Actually weldings is about product quality, prescision, accuracy. High valued brands should not do frames with so rough welds. You should know clearly what are you paying for! Peace, man Smile
  • + 1
 @AndRiEL: I agree with you. On top of that The sheer quantity of welds seems ridiculous even if they were small and clean it would still look ugly. I actually like to see welds on a bike since I was a welder for a portion of my life. perfect stacked dime welds look really nice, but not when you have 30 linear feet of them on one bike.
  • + 0
 Cables and hoses disappearing into the frame only to reappear again leaving the bits that are the most untidy exposed anyway....in years to come I hope we can all look back and realise how naive and vein we were about this internal cable routing nonsense. But we'll probably have wireless tech before people realise how dumb it is.
  • - 1
 I like the paint job. But otherwise I find it "Strange" they need to prototype a single-pivot design to death and come up with essentially the same single-pivot design tacked on with newer external technology and charge upwards to £5100. Or maybe it's "Strange" people still buy these bikes? For $1500 - $2000 USD max for a complete bike, OK that makes some sense. But anything more and it becomes a hard-sell IMHO.
  • + 3
 I got neg propped LMAO. I guess someone really likes this bike.
  • + 3
 Love Orange. I will be buying the Alpine.
  • + 1
 Probably the only bike I would rather see in Carbon. Just think what that back end would look like all smoothed out with Carbon.
  • + 1
 Looking closely n the designs are getting worse. Iv had a fair few orange bikes over the years n they all rode great but they just look old now
  • + 1
 Meh. Though high pivots now work better because of 1x drive trains. Easier to optimize for chain feedback. Still crap though.
  • + 1
 Not a cool sexy bike for those who prefer man buns, cute neon socks and accessorizing their ears. I would ride this simplified but effective platform!!!
  • + 3
 $3800 for an aluminum single pivot battleship? Sounds like a steal!
  • + 1
 Original, simple, sticking to their roots for over 20 years....yet, has boost front and rear, short chain stays, and copy cat geometry
  • + 6
 Not so much "copy cat geometry" as everyone else gradually catching up with Orange, who've been making longer/lower/slacker bikes than the mainstream for years.
  • + 1
 These frames look like an early 2000's Iron Horse or Kona. Not to mention the geometry is out dated and lacks efficiency. Maestro for daysss
  • + 3
 PINKBIKE IT'S FORK. SINGULAR. ONE FORK.
  • + 3
 Not if your from the uk, always been forks.
  • + 2
 @mallorcadave: this is why the US won the revolutionary war. (Not really lol)
  • + 3
 @SnowshoeRider4Life: didn't you need alot of help from the French there??
  • + 5
 @mallorcadave: especially if your from Plymouffff where everything has an s in the end! Jesters has a lot to answer for. Off to Asdas now for lotteries init bay.
Nice bike with middle spensions bay. Ge-uz a go.
Excuse my rambles. I was having a momment of reflection on my life....and submit
  • + 3
 Orange has always polarized. You love it or you hate it
  • + 3
 L size reach in the geo chart is wrong.
  • + 4
 Nice color
  • + 2
 Do they realize it's 2016? That grey bike looks like they made it out of an old gate they found. Walmart, about 80 dollars.
  • + 1
 Think the Alpine looks Ace and would love to see it get tested with some overpriced plastic bike for a winter in the UK
  • + 0
 I do not believe in hand made high quality stuff!
From top of my head commencal looks at list more sexy and nicer;(offering single pivot and aluminum reliable package)
  • + 1
 Grey is the new Orange !!! On top of all the new standards!! I can't keep up
  • + 1
 Oh and I like the design in architecture you call it brutalist. And that's not a bad thing.
  • + 2
 Those welds look ugly imo
  • + 0
 yeah, they stop me from doing anything
  • + 1
 Mates snapped 2 swing arms on his current alpine but in fairness they were mint with warranty.
  • + 2
 Me encanta la sencillez del pivote único.
  • + 3
 Rough crowd
  • + 1
 No matter how good these bikes are, and they are, Orange should move on with the design.
  • + 1
 What I don't get is, how to companies keep justifying single pivot high swingarm designs like it's 1999?
  • + 6
 Ever thought because they actually work??
  • - 1
 @sewer-rat: but they don't. The fives rear suspension locks up if you use the back brake
  • + 2
 @chrismac70: really?? I don't think so at all, if you've got the shock set right this will not happen. Brake squat (not jack) hardly ever happens on decently set single pivots.
2 bearings
1 pivot
0 problems
  • + 2
 @chrismac70:
Change "the rear suspension locks up if you use the rear brake" to "the rear brake causes the rear suspension to stiffen slightly".

The effect is not unique to single pivots.
  • + 2
 This bikes lines are dirtier than a two dollar hooker.
  • + 1
 More progressiveness sounds good. But how much?
Orange, please don't be a marketing prick and show us some numbers!
  • + 1
 You're either gonna love it or hate it
  • + 2
 that thing is FUGLY
  • + 1
 2000 called - they want their bike back!
  • + 1
 When will the bikes be available to buy?
  • + 3
 In the next few weeks depending on size, model and build, but ask your local dealer! Get a test ride too...
  • - 2
 when you've sold a kidney to get the cash to buy one lol
  • + 1
 @ollyforster: I've ridden the previous model and enjoyed that, does this feel much the same?
  • + 1
 Every time I set my eyes on any Orange bike I feel sick.
  • + 1
 5k for this vs a Canyon Strive @ 3k
  • + 2
 Yes agreed,orange every time Salute
  • + 1
 @Earthmotherfu: I'd take the strive and have one hell of a bike holiday with the remaining 2k.

I honestly don't know how these brands are surviving with these prices.
  • + 2
 @jimferno: should imagine its loyal following,probably happy ticking along with no aspirations of dominating the world.friend of mine has just bought a belstaff leather,same thing..he likes I don't.it just goes on and on and on....
  • + 1
 @Earthmotherfu: If the argument for these bikes is function over form, simplicity and reliability they should be priced as such.

None of the above warrants a higher price tag than the competition.

I'd love to own an Orange, mainly due to the simple design and ease of maintenance, but they need to move with the times and lower the price a tad.
  • + 2
 @jimferno: a seamstress working for john smedley spending hours refining a cashmere garment is paid accordingly for 1st classwork.many many years of learning the craft has given her the right to earn 'professional' monies.a firstclass bespoke welder working on Reynolds tubing for orange,also earns the right for a top wage.
It's just a british bike,built by craftsmen in Britain and sometimes you have to pay for what it is,not what it isn'ttup
  • + 1
 @Earthmotherfu: I guess I don't value Bob's premium welding skills as much as you.

I'll take the top spec, carbon rocket for £2k less.
  • + 1
 @jimferno: 1k more for exploding sb6cFrown
  • + 1
 No +size ;p

Love my alpine, keep up the great work guys... Marmite.
  • + 0
 OR another prettier British single pivot option: www.starlingcycles.com
  • + 4
 Starling have me excited but they are too small to be comparable really - Next season Starling may see my custom.
  • + 1
 Yeah, good looking bike, reminds me of the first gen Superlight, but also looks flexy as hell.
  • + 2
 @m0ngy: It's not flexy. Remember steel is three times as stiff as aluminium. Also, the simple single pivot design removes bearings where flexibility can be added into the system. Read the ride reviews on my website, it is good!
  • + 2
 @m0ngy: I have an Xprezo Adhoc with a steel rear end. It is one of the stiffest 'metal' bikes you can buy.
  • + 2
 Or another - Empire cycles
  • + 1
 a very expensive gate.
  • + 1
 hahaha brilliant!!
  • + 0
 £5100!!!!! Thats got to be the most expensive filing cabinet ever made!
  • + 1
 £3000 for yakety yaketyWink
  • + 0
 These are the ellsworth of the UK.
  • + 1
 Looks like scaffolding
  • + 0
 Race Face Arc30 rims?
  • - 2
 I like the look of last years Alpine 160 better.
  • - 2
 Looks like a 2005 frame with 2016 parts, blagh'
  • - 2
 L . O . V . E LOVE THE NEW FRAMES
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