2017 Pinkbike Awards - Component of the Year Nominees

Dec 4, 2017
by Pinkbike Staff  
PB Awards

It's that time of year again, where we look back to honour the most outstanding athletes, innovators, products, and achievements of the year. 2017 was an important year for mountain biking, with some major business and product paradigm shifts underway, as well as some of the most impressive athletic performances in recent memory.

Only products we actually used this year are eligible to be nominated for the 2017 Pinkbike Awards. The nominees are hotly debated by our senior editorial team to arrive at consensus. We will roll out the nominees first, before announcing the category winners later this month.

As always, we want to know what you think—what are your top picks for the year?



Component of the Year Nominees


Within the realm of human-powered sports, mountain biking is as gear-heavy as they get. Selecting a handful of nominees from the galaxy of new drivetrain items, wheels, brakes and cockpit accessories that debut each year can be a daunting process. This year, however, the reverse was true. Three standout components earned a clear thumbs up after a short, but heated debate among Pinkbike's tech menagerie. You may be surprised that each candidate also qualified as a good value.

E*thirteen's TRS Race 9 by 46 tooth cassette offers 11-speed owners a wider gearing range than SRAM's 12-speed Eagle for a fraction of the cost. If that wasn't good enough, e*thirteen backs it with a five-year warranty. Next up is TRP, a name most would not expect to read here. The brake maker learned a lot after they paired up with a certain Aaron Gwin. That experience eventually trickled down to become TRP's four-piston Quadium - a sharp looking stopper that edged out the sport's heavy hitters for its outstanding modulation. Our third pick was also the industry's choice: SRAM owned the 2017 trailbike market with the debut of its affordable, exactly-what-I-want, 12-speed GX Eagle group. The ramifications of GX Eagle will be felt for years to come.









Why it's Nominated:

Many riders had just come on board with 11-speed one-by transmissions when SRAM sprung its wide-range, 12-speed Eagle group on the industry at large. There was no arguing that Eagle's 500-percent gearing spread was a necessary improvement. Most, if not all of the early naysayers quickly became Eagle converts. SRAM Eagle's unilateral takeover of the trailbike market left thousands of unfortunate 11-speed owners hungry for Eagle's lower climbing gear and extra top speed. Count yourself among them? E*thirteen's TRS Race cassette handily addresses SRAM's injustice with a whopping 511-percent gearing range that operates with your existing SRAM or Shimano 11-speed derailleur and shift lever.

TRS Race cassettes retail for $349 USD. That is a big chunk of change for most, but (depending upon the quality of your existing components) you'd pay $250 to $1000 more than that to step up to 12-speed. E*thirteen's TRS Race cassette is lightweight - only 303 grams - and it comes with a spline tool and assembly grease, so you can install it at home. Maintaining the TRS cassette is made simpler by e*thirteen's two-piece design which allows its owner to replace the faster wearing cogs separately. In action, the gearing steps seem more consistent from top to bottom than SRAM Eagle, which makes it easy to forget that the TRS Race is "only" an 11-speed cassette.

From the review:
bigquotesE*thirteen’s TRSr cassette offers riders a range that’s wider than what’s possible by going to 12-speed, without requiring an entirely new drivetrain. The steps between gears and the range offered are really good, making this something to seriously consider for anyone who had been holding off on converting to one-by until the easiest gears were more user-friendly.AJ Barlas







Why it's Nominated:

TRP is OEM brake maker Tektro's elite-level brand and, after teaming up with Aaron Gwin, TRP fulfilled that role with its Quadiem four-piston system. Billed as a downhill and all-mountain brake, the G-Spec Quadiem has already proven itself in World Cup DH competition under Gwin. It should not be surprising, then, that Pinkbike's review was also complimentary. Tops on our list was the modulation, which reviewer Mike Levy insists is better than any DH brake he has experienced. Consistency was a close second.

G-Spec Quadiem brakes retail for $199 per side and weigh 317 grams (front) without a rotor. Powered by mineral oil, the sturdy, two-piece finned caliper houses steel/ceramic pistons and sports one-piece pads that are interchangeable with Shimano XT and XTR. Standard pads are semi-metallic with reduced stopping, compared to TRP's powerful $19.95 metallic option that we recommend. Levers are comfortable, slightly longer and larger than Shimano Zee, with Gwin-inspired traction dimples and an indexed reach adjustment. Finally, G-Spec brakes are finished with a mirror polish, so even the most casual observer will take notice.

From the review:
bigquotesWhile not the most powerful setup out there, the G-Spec's class-leading modulation makes them far more than just a shiny alternative to SRAM and Shimano's brakes. Impressive control aside, as so many other brakes seem to become less reliable, it might be the G-Spec's consistency that wins many riders over. Mike Levy







Why it's Nominated:

Three years of pushback from enthusiast-level riders against the proliferation of ten thousand dollar trail bikes fell largely upon deaf ears. Bike and parts makers were competing to produce the ultimate enduro bike, and the shortest path was to bolt the most expensive components onto the lightest frames. Enter SRAM GX Eagle. Less than half the cost of SRAM's elite-level 12-speed ensembles, with performance that nearly matched them. Whether it was a brilliant move on SRAM's part, or serendipity, GX Eagle crashed the party at exactly the right moment. The message was clear: "Keep the gold chain, we'll take the 12-speed." Bike makers who caught on used GX Eagle, combined with creative component choices, to offer true high-performance trail bikes at realistic prices in 2017.

SRAM priced GX Eagle at $495 USD in the aftermarket (much less for OEM customers).The street price for XX1 Eagle is $1500. That leaves a cool $1000 to upgrade the bike's suspension or wheels, both of which would pay greater performance dividends. There is no escaping that there is a weight penalty to GX. The cassette alone weighs 448 grams, but upgrades elsewhere on the bike made possible by the more affordable transmission can make up for its added heft. GX Eagle's success has already inspired suspension and wheel makers to follow suit. Insiders say that the MSRP of a top performing all-mountain trail bike has already dropped $2000. The dominoes are just beginning to fall.

From the first ride:
bigquotesThe fact that a more affordable Eagle drivetrain came sooner than expected will be welcome news for anyone who was on the fence about purchasing a new drivetrain. It also means that we'll be seeing more 12-speed, single ring setups on relatively affordable bikes, pushing the front derailleur another step closer to extinction. Mike Kazimer




Three strong contenders for Pinkbike's Component of the Year Award. Each nominee addresses issues shared by a great number of fellow mountain bike riders. All represent significant performance benefits, while offering a more affordable alternative. We already have a pretty good idea which component will be the winner, but before we cast our final votes, we'd like to hear from you.








272 Comments

  • + 155
 For all the hype I've seen on this e13 cassette ive literally never seen one on a bike in the wild. Same with the TRP brakes. Meanwhile, everyone in 2017 is running the new Geagle. Easy choice.
  • + 20
 We have had several come through the shop I work at, with pretty solid results. The range is solid, and you can run a slightly smaller chain ring than other cassettes, while still maintaining its top end. Santa Cruz has also spec'd them on their mid level XE build kits. Pretty solid part all around, and it can be replaced in halves. If your granny gear wears out, you don't have to get a whole new cassette, just the half, so it can save a bit of money there too.
  • + 8
 My buddy, has one on his Rocky Slayer... He's pretty stoked on it compared to the regular SRAM 1 x 11 setup. I was going to replace my YT Capra's SRAM 1 x 11 cassette with the e13 over this winter (Not that I've had any issue with old cassette).
  • + 17
 Got one of my YT Jeffsy - it’s legit.
  • - 20
flag RedRedRe (Dec 4, 2017 at 12:35) (Below Threshold)
 the e-13 cassette "race" is just a cheaply made copy of the Leonardi General Lee 9-45 (for actual racers).
The 20-24 (4 tooth difference) makes me question what e-13 is doing.
Not sure what racers wants a 4 tooth jump in the middle of the chainline.
  • + 34
 GX Eagle should win the most overrated component of the year. It's way too heavy for the $5,000 bikes companies are putting them on, and they're a total PITA to deal with on the trail. The derailleur is so long that if you barely touch something with it, it loses alignment and shifts like sh*t the rest of the ride. No thanks.
  • + 16
 I've been running the E.13 cassette for some time now. Love it, love the gear combos it allows me to do.
  • + 11
 I'm running one as well (as are all my riding buddies) and it works great. The new TRS+ is even cheaper and works just as well. As mentioned above Santa Cruz uses them on their XT kits so there are a bunch out there. Cheaper upgrade than full GX Eagle and more range. Win/win.
  • + 9
 I've been running the E13 cassettes for a season now on a few bikes with great results in the 9-44t version. For the price, you get a great range in gears and a weight that is very competitive. I also like the option to run the drivetrain of your choice, for me it's a complete XT set up as I prefer shifting to SRAM. Makes for a super solid setup at a great price when you can run XT components with this cassette.
  • + 22
 Revive dropper post FTW.
  • + 1
 @jamesdunford: how does if feel on the 9t? I've been cautioned that too small increases friction/ drag. and the 9 has a "polygon effect" since it's just one more tooth than an octagon... I'm tempted, but not there yet.
  • - 4
flag RedRedRe (Dec 4, 2017 at 14:26) (Below Threshold)
 @boyslikedirt: Leonardi Racing?
The one that come up with the extra cog before oneup and other copied?
The one that Cannondale Factory Racing buys stems, steering tubes and other things from?
Funny I had 8 ups last time I checked, out of magic my comment is below the threshold...
e-13 cassette is a joke, not sure what is racing about it, since the gearing jumps are good for a commuter bike. The only reason they call it racing is to justify the short lifespan.
  • + 6
 @shrockie: I've never noticed any drag. If you are in the 9t gear, you're flying downhill. I'm running a 34t up front so really the only time I'm in this is to pick-up a bit of speed downhill or when pushing down a road / fireroad. I've never noticed anything odd or different than a 10/11t.
  • + 6
 I’ve run the 9-44 on my trail rig with a 32 up front this past year. It replaced the SRAM GX 11spd cassette. Much prefer the mid gearing on the e13 to the SRAM. Havent gone fast enough to top out the 9 tooth ring, but the 44t was a noticable enough difference on those fire road climbs. Might actually bump the front up to a 34. Actually just picked up the 9-46 for the Capra to help it up those sustained climbs in the saddle. And its cheaper than going 12spd, even if its GX.
  • + 2
 Best component I've bought in recent history. Dat 9 tooth though!!! E*13 TRSr cassette FTW!
  • + 1
 @seraph: wth gets the credit from me. this product wins no question
  • - 4
flag kovaldesign (Dec 4, 2017 at 15:32) (Below Threshold)
 Yeah! Lets glorify ever changing standards! I'm sorry but I feel the whole 12-speed thing should not have place here.
  • + 6
 XT 11-speed 11-46 is more than good enough!
  • + 5
 e13 cassette gets my vote and will be on the shopping list this Spring when I update my worn out drive train parts.
  • - 4
flag Timo82 (Dec 4, 2017 at 17:25) (Below Threshold)
 Someone I know told me that Sram Eagle got some problems; broken chain (12 speed's too narrow?) and something with the derailleur (not shifting well if I remember). Isn't that true!?!?
  • + 2
 Am I the only one who's had massive issues with the e13 cassettes? On 2 separate occasions I've had cogs literally fold over on me from simple pedal torque. I love the range, but I'll never run one again. It's flimsy garbage.
  • + 6
 We've been testing them this season at Structure and it's gone well. They shift as effectively as SRAM and Shimano and are either a lot cheaper or a lot lighter - even the tiny 9 T sprocket works well, which I didn't expect. And e*thirteen has been a lot more pleasant to deal with.

I've taken it a step further by pairing the e*thirteen cassette with a Box shifter and derailleur for a "No BS" (that's "big S-brand") drivetrain without any noteworthy complaints. It's nice to have solid alternatives!
  • + 5
 How often do you look at the brand etched on peoples black cassette? I run e13 cassettes on both of my bikes and not once has anyone noticed. Now, “GX” logos plastered on several components all over someone’s bike? Of course you’ll notice that.
  • + 4
 @Timo82: ham-fisted shifting will result in things breaking.
  • + 1
 It's the company that paid the most expensive advertising on Pinkbike. As always
  • + 3
 Dilly! Dilly!
  • + 8
 @seraph: My XT M8000, E thirteen drivetrain costs me less than Eagle 12spd and weighs in close to XX1! I have a couple thousand miles on it an its still going strong!
  • + 1
 @RedRedRe: Yeah, never heard of them, they do sound like a big deal though and you sound really good at racing bikes.
  • - 2
 @Structure-Ryan: Isn't it a bit misleading to state that the E13 cassette is either "a lot cheaper or a lot lighter?" One could just as accurately say that it's "a lot heavier or a lot more expensive" as it's heavier than the X01 and XX1 cassette, and more expensive than NX/GX. Since Eagle has come along, XG-1195 costs same as TRSr cassette, and is a good chunk lighter and higher quality. And instead of having to replace the entire upper half of the TRSr cassette when granny wears out, you only need to replace a single ring on the 1195. The other gears don't wear out because they're steel and last forever. I hardly think that with these issues identified that the TRSr cassette should even be considered for the product of the year, even factoring in the expanded gear range. I'll nominate the 2018 Fox 36 RC2 as its improvement over the 2017 model are more significant than what the TRSr cassette brings to the table. And while I hadn't until now heard of the Leonardi cassette, that is quite the work of art. Would be very interesting if it truly did precede the TRSr.

There is a huge amount of fanboy love of E13 on this comment section despite real concerns being raised (and downvoted).
  • + 3
 @erikkellison: I don't think it's a fair comparison. The e*thirteen cassette has more range than Eagle, so I feel the Eagle comparison is more appropriate, as range is more important than sprocket count - to me, at any rate. Under such a comparison, the TRSr is lighter for a given price or cheaper for a given weight. I agree the aluminum content diminishes durability, though.

If we compare the TRSr to the 1195, the weight spread is only a few grams, the 1195 wins on price, and, again, the TRSr wins on range. I still prefer the TRSr.

One last point tips the balance in favour of e*thirteen: as a small builder, e*thirteen offers me good pricing at quantities I can reach; SRAM and Shimano do not. If I buy SRAM or Shimano, it will be from a distributor with prices virtually equal to those at Jensonusa.com - sometimes higher, even. A complete bike would be built up with parts I'd have to sell at cost.

I'll never spec anything on a Structure that isn't top quality and a solid value, though, so you can see why smaller manufacturers are so excited to have good alternatives. I don't blame SRAM and Shimano - they're juggernauts and my business amounts to a rounding error on Trek's order - and it's led me to interact with some great companies I might've overlooked if I had access to OE pricing with the Big S twins.
  • + 2
 @Structure-Ryan: You raise some good points. Since I do not find myself wanting extra range, the 500%+ range offered by TRSr and Eagle have no sway for me. I can't imagine I'm alone here, but I'm sure there are those who appreciate the larger range.
You are right, given the equivalent cost of 1295 and TRSr, the TRSr is lighter, but the 1195 more durable.
It's a tough call. It may be the best choice for a cassette for some, but I'm not sure that merits a "component of the year" nomination. Their TRSr tire on the other hand, certainly does. It's about time someone released a sticky tire that is sub-1kg and can actually corner AND clear mud... too bad it disappeared. Hoping the new mfg makes it as good as the last one.
  • + 2
 @alewi11: I've had the premature wear on the teeth and just as irritating the dreaded and very loud creak that grease didn't fix. This problem was widely documented including a complete article here on pb. Did they forget?
  • + 1
 @wilks: Did you utilize the washer kit that e13 offers, or did you just grease the sections? I had the issue on my 11 speed, and cleaning / greasing took care of it with no return and no need for the washers.
  • + 1
 @ninjatarian: thanks I've not had any luck with e13 responding. I'll try then again.
  • - 1
 I run one on my steel niner gravel/cross rig paired with Rival shifter and it works great. no shifting issues and plenty of range.
  • + 1
 I'm thinking that perhaps you don't see them in the wild because you are riding?? I know that I personally never notice what cassette someone is running.
  • + 0
 @RedRedRe:

How do you know it's a "cheaply made copy"? Based on what information?

The jump from 3rd to 4th gear on the General Lee is 5 teeth, and as you said "not sure what racers wants a 4 (or in this case 5) tooth jump in the middle of the chainline"
  • + 0
 @CaptainSnappy: what is your point?
3rd to 4th gear is 5 teeth on the e-13 as well.
That is not in the middle of the chainline.
For racing, the shifting needs to be optimized on the outer cogs, because those are the ones used the most.

General Lee 9-45 came out in late 2013.
e-13 9-46 come out in... 2017?
Can we say it is a “copy”?

Just read around about durability issues on e-13 cassettes form people who actually bought them and not from people who got them for “free” or never seen one, as some of the commenters on this post.
  • + 0
 @boyslikedirt: no doubt you never heard of them...
one-up, ab, wolftooth, e-13 etc. have their page bookmarked. As they do with carbon-ti, ari, etc.
Just look at what these companies are offering now, and you'll see a similar product offered by the ones above after a year or three.
  • + 1
 The E13 is a no brainer for anyone replacing a worn out sram casset. I've been using them for two years and find them pretty common in my local zone.
  • + 1
 look at me, look at me, defying perceptions.
  • - 1
 Why the f*ck am I getting neg props for asking a question?! haha That's funny...
  • + 4
 OK, so some here say this e13 is a no brainer, works great, is shite etc. Pretty mixed opinions.
I've just checked the RRP for this item and in the UK it is 300 pounds.
I suppose people just need to stop and think - how the heck for some that sort of money became a 'norm' for a wearing component??
People riding with excellent 10/11-speed Shimano cassettes must be having a laugh Big Grin
  • + 5
 Sunrace wtf! Still waiting for a Pinkbike review...
  • + 1
 @zoobab2: PB still waiting for Sunrace to buy some ads...
  • + 1
 @erikkellison: Spot on that tyre is amazing.....how its so light i have no idea
  • + 75
 Absolutely gutted Ellsworth missed out again
  • + 5
 gold
  • + 3
 I'm literally rolling on the floor laughing...!!! Thanks!
  • + 36
 And here I am scratching my head with 1x10 and Shimano zee brakes on all my bikes... Don't feel like I'm missing out especially with my 230g cassette.
  • + 2
 what cassette do you run that's only 230g mate
  • + 2
 @konacyril: Could be XTR 11-32.
  • + 8
 @konacyril: XTR is super light and has titanium cogs. Shimano makes the best cassettes from an engineering/manufacturing perspective.
  • + 4
 @atrokz: yes I only run shimano XT on my bikes for years , currently run 11speed 11 46 and couldn't be happier although it is a little heavy at 450g Often dream of putting XTR on my bike but I am a bit hard on components to justify the cost
  • + 3
 if you manage to get a 11-36 xtr cassette on a closeout, with a 42 cog and xt shifters/derail you get a super lightweight and legit drivetrain...#10spisenough
  • + 3
 @konacyril: Sram X0 11-36 advertised as 230g (verified at 240g apparently). It isn't cheap, but still about half the price of high end 11/12 speed and 1/2 the weight of middle range 11/12speed cassettes.

1x10 definitely isn't for everyone, I can barely get up any hill in January after i spend 3 weeks eating and drinking... But once the fitness is there you can get up anything, even in the Alps.
  • + 1
 @Mugen: I agree 100% I also like riding SS; so if I got to walk a bit, I know it's steep, but what goes up.......
  • + 2
 Got you beat Mugen! Still running 2x9 and Avid Elixir CR's
  • + 28
 As a wrench, I find the GX Eagle very finicky.. It shifts ok , the rear derailleur is a huge stick catcher and it is not as precise as you'd think. I'd wait for more 12 speed options to come out or stick with current 11speed offerings. IMO
  • - 8
flag YouHadMeAtDrugs (Dec 4, 2017 at 12:14) (Below Threshold)
 you must be doing it wrong, it works fine for me. A breeze to set up, haven't broken it yet.
  • + 10
 A buddy w/ Eagle is constantly pulling sh!t out of his derailleur hanger...it does catch a noticeable amount it debris.
  • + 4
 As a pretty mediocre home mechanic, it works just fine for me. I've owned GX & X01 Eagle and honestly barely notice a difference of performance, if anything at all.
  • + 2
 Yeah that huge derailleur is freakin' me out every time I see one. On 29 plus bike it seems to look ok but on anything else it wants to grab the terrain.
  • + 1
 @YouHadMeAtDrugs: I work a lot of them. it is just the wide range of the derailleur and cassette. It works fine, just not as "crisp" as 11 spd or XX1 XO1 Eagle
  • + 3
 @MrDiamondDave: 100% agree with you.
As someone who used to work as a bike mechanic and numerous bikes equipped with Sram X9, the eagle is very sensitive.
Never had a transmission that has constantly had me thinking is it working right? is it shifting ok? what’s that noise?
  • + 3
 @connorjuliusjohnson: as you are a home mechanic; you must be used to just ok. #sorrynotsorry
  • + 2
 @MrDiamondDave: maybe ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ but whatever it works fine for me. More riding less wrenching keep me happy.
  • + 25
 I don't get the 12 hype? E13 cassette is the same range with one less cog...so simpler should be better. Plus our shop is seeing a ton of destroyed eagle shit and customers coming in with shifting issues. M8000 with e13 cassette won't need another drivetrain option ever.
  • + 2
 I agree and really like my 11sp, but it could be nice to have another gear in there to smooth out the steps between cogs. It is not worth it for me because the trade off is not worth it, but hey, maybe some folks are all about that.
  • + 4
 Many mountain bikers come from a roadie background, and on road having small shifting jumps really does matter. While its not as big a deal on the mountain, being comfortable on the bike that you just dropped several thousand dollars on is important. A few of my buddies who race XC say they are slower on the drivetrains that don't have too wide of spacing between gears.
  • + 3
 @hamncheez: I borrowed a bike recently which had an XT 3x9 drivetrain while I was getting my fork serviced and I admit I missed the tighter spacing for a while after switching back to my wider range 1x10 set up. I won't be coughing up the cash for eagle any time soon, but I definitely could see the benefits of tighter spacing between gears.
  • + 2
 FD for life !
  • + 13
 Eagle is not necessary if you actually ride your bike and gain a moderate amount of fitness - don't go selling your current drivetrain to jump on the bandwagon.
  • + 37
 This story again.

Get out of your back yard and go somewhere where it's steep. There are tons of places around the world where you'll be wishing you didn't say what you just said. And some people sadly don't have the time to be on the bike that much to have enough fitness. Because you know, real life and all (i consider myself very very lucky to be able to have ~100 riding days per year).

That or riding with someone slower on a 2x drivetrain, where you just can't go slow enough, even if you have the fitness.
  • + 25
 @Primoz: I'm 41, have a full- time job, not a dentist, ride very steep shit, and only have a 11-40 cassette, so yes you can ride without Eagle. The greatest thing I ever did is remove the triple and subsequent granny gear off my bike 15 years ago. . . . . but putting a pizza dish one my rear wheel is not an option for me.
  • + 7
 @Primoz: I never had a real disadvantage to riders with smaller coqs or even 2x. When it gets too steep I'm just as fast on foot. X01 with 34t. And yes, that includes the Alps and the Ligurian coast. Steepest one I did was 22.8 % I think. More range would probably be useful when you are doing more than 2000m vertical of ascent, though. That said I like the improvements of eagle: the chain, smoothness and derailleur bolt are useful upgrades.
  • + 8
 The only reason for me wanting to move to 11 speed (Luddite hold out here) is so that I can run a 34 or 36t up front-higher top out speed.
  • + 10
 @Primoz: if the granny on your 1x11 isn't low enough then just get a smaller front chainring.......1x12 is a luxury / nice to have, nothing else
  • + 2
 Nino Schurter rides Eagle, and he is fitter than you. Eagle is a great option because it allows you to put a bigger chainring on the front, thus improving your top end speed. And before you say that he is paid to ride Sram - guys who win 6 world championships have the power to decide their sponsors. If it was such a hoax, he would be on Shimano.
  • + 4
 @garneau565: He also runs a 38t front ring! to your point though, I doubt he will switch to Shimano when their 12 speed comes out.
  • + 10
 @garneau565: Nino argument is invalid for a few reasons, one being he won two titles on XX1 10-42, other is he runs 36t chainring whereas majority of Eagle users keep spinning 30-32t.

@Primoz - steep argument is bollocks, I have as steep climbs as it is possible to climb, often in wet, with mud rock slabs and roots. Too fast cadence robs you off the rear wheel grip on steeps and increases the risk of rock strikes, not to mention how hard it is to steer when each pedal stroke wants to lift the front. Climbing steep fireroads, especially with chunky loose rocks is next to impossible on low gear. Then such steeps are impossible to be climbed for any longer distance. Finally, coming from Beskidy mountains, having been riding in Sudety, in Alps and in Norway I can say without a shadow of a doubt that all this climbing chat is pointless since it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that nearly each area has climbs that are climbable and those that are not, regardless of cassette size. I climbed Kralicky Sneznik in 1,5h on DH tyres and 180 fork. 34 front, 40 in the back. 15kg bike, 27:5, 160 travel, 175 cranks. Fitness is most of what matters. Then if you fancy spinning at walking speed be my guest, I prefer to save legs for descents in such case.

Eagle is what tripple chainrings were.
  • + 8
 @Primoz: I've been riding Into the Mystic in Whistler this fall (about a 3 hour climb with almost no "rest zones") on a 11-42 (32t chainring) and I'm 51. I don't have enough time to ride 100 days a years anymore and still, I never felt the need for a 50t.
  • + 9
 @WAKIdesigns: By your logic, one could dispel disk brakes because someone once won WC on V-brakes. Eagle gives Nino an advantage over racers who cannot afford to fit a 36t or 38t chainring on the front of their bikes because of cassette limitations, thus making Eagle superior. Can he win without it? Most likely. But does it make him faster? Certainly.

Not everyone needs Eagle, but OP should not suggest that Eagle is only for those who are unfit. There is a very real benefit to having a higher top-end speed.
  • + 5
 @WAKIdesigns: Seriously, I couldn't keep my balance with Eagle and 32t. Too slow for my crappy sense of balance.
  • + 8
 @WAKIdesigns: gotta agree about the steepness argument.... What's climbable depends almost wholly on your fitness level and skill/surface conditions, less so on gearing. I'm not out here saying everyone should be able to climb everything in the world on an old 1x9, but there's a point where getting lower and lower gearing gets less helpful due to high cadence, loss of traction, front end rising, etc. To me the point of Eagle is to allow use of larger chainrings and higher top speeds, not really to winch up climbs in 30-50 at a snail's pace. I can really only see that being useful on ultra-steep, well-packed fireroads or something.

Not saying I wouldn't buy Eagle if my whole drivetrain exploded tomorrow. Just saying I live near and ride a fair amt of steep stuff and I think there's a point where low gearing stops helping and you simply need the fitness to push a higher ratio.
  • + 0
 @garneau565: you are using standard argument against any criticism of any questionqble product: by your logic bla bla bla we’d be all riding cantilevers bla bla bla. No, what you said is not my logic. I did not mean that Eagle is for the unfit. It is a product for people who want more. And for those who get it with the bike. And then for some who prefer higher cadences and climb mostly fireroads. That’s a big bunch.

But there is little rationality behind it.

And Nino given his paycheck has no choice. He must ride Eagle and I don’t think he gives much fk about it. I know 2 XC racers of mediocre results by world cup standards who were cranking out 36 front out of 34 back. Shifting to granny for very brief moments during the race, so Nino won’t care much. He wins on a fkng 650B bike against a field of 29ers for fks sake and everyone knows that 29ers are faster.
  • + 5
 Options....we have options people!
  • + 3
 @WAKIdesigns: your example tells exactly that you are climbing mellow steeps. The peak is 1,424 m. Try riding (not pushing) from ~500m to above 2000 m with accommodated positive vertical climb from 1800m+ with these gears. If you can do it than go race EWS or competitive XC. There are still many wild places where only a trained athlete will be able to ride with such gears this is why @Primoz gives the climbing argument - a ratio of 0.69 and maybe a little lower is comfortable for bike riding uphill. You are right though that tech terrain requires a heavier gear.

The experience around me with GX is not convincing as well - needs adjustment much more often compared to M8000.
  • + 5
 So true, another 41, full time job, 1x10 (OneUp oval 32, Sunrace 11x42) and I climb really step tracks around my place in Malaga, Spain. Hell, I was in September in Finale Ligure to cover the EWS and I made the full 2 routes on previous days, without shuttle, one day it was 4h climbing (first race day), 1400m non stop climbing, no problems at all. Seen lot of Eagles with tons of shifting issues, rear derailleur destroyed with stones, twisted cogs, not for me sorry.
  • + 2
 I highly doubt Nino is actually ever using the 50t that much.
  • - 1
 @pr3dator: Sneznik is an easy peasy by my standards. Around Gothenburg hills rarely exceed 80m. Yes Eighty. And after 2h of riding with strong guys I am way more wasted than when climbing some mountain since those climbs are steep and often take me above 190BPM. Then no speed is for free and I need to pedal for most of the time to get any enjoyable amount of speed. Then we can compare an old climb at Kozia gora at Enduro trails in Bielsko, which has maybe 300m of altitude difference but it is as tiring as nearby Szyndzielnia with 600m. So It all depends on steepness and the surface, but cranking high gear has diminishing returns like everything else.

If I moved to bigger mountains I’d simply use the dirty finger system instead of having a giant cassette bouncing in the rear. 28-36 chainset mhwaaa
  • + 3
 @WAKIdesigns: tell me more about the dirty finger system.

Seriously though, this my favourite recurring PB conversation...
  • + 2
 @WAKIdesigns: ''Eagle is what tripple chainrings were.'' thank you for the sentence .
  • + 3
 What?
  • + 1
 IF YOU'RE GETTING A NEW BIKE, GET G-EAGLE. IF YOU ARE LOOKING TO UPGRADE YOUR CURRENT SETUP, GET THE ETHIRTEEN 9-46. There, its settled.
  • + 1
 sick
  • + 1
 @hamncheez: can you tell me if it'll slide onto a 5-year old Pro2 evo hub? I can't get my head around the googling needed.
  • + 2
 @BenPea: It depends if your driver is XD or Shimano.

If you have an 11, 10 or 9 speed Shimano or 10, 9 speed Sram cassette currently on it, then its a Shimano driver. If you have a 12, 11 speed Sram cassette currently on it, then its an XD and compatible with the E-Thirteen
  • + 2
 @hamncheez: Damn. Many thanks.
  • + 15
 Well this little subthread has become quite the dick wagging contest. I'm 49, 2 young kids, not a dentist, a house and yard and and job and all that, and feel exceeding lucky any time I get out to ride. My climbing is an absolute embarrassment to the MTB community at large these days and I always want more gears. You guys who "don't need those low gears and can climb 12,000 vertical meters at 38% grades with just one rest stop" are awesome, but I (and my busted knees) need me some low-range options. Probably a Sunrace 11-46 soon, but I don't see that among the nominees so..... Smile
  • - 1
 @Primoz: I just got an xt 11 speed drivetrain with an 11-46 tooth cassette. With a 34t up front, that is all the granny i could ever need; with a 30t i can't imagine anyone would be wanting.
  • + 7
 Most people choose their gearing based upon the biggest low gear they can handle. This usually results in several high gears that are too tall to be practical. A 34 T or 36 T ring with a 50 T Eagle cassette will get you up most hills (with considerable pain), but you won't spin out your top gear until over 50 km/h. I doubt I've ever desperately needed to pedal a mountain bike beyond 40 km/h, let alone 50 km/h.

Instead, I recommend selecting a ratio with just enough top gear and letting the low gear be whatever it will be. For me, this was a 28/9 top gear, which I can comfortably turn up to about 40 km/h, and a 28/46 low gear. I assumed the latter would be unnecessarily low, but it allows me to maintain a quick, easy spin with 170 mm cranks while others are standing or grinding away, adding hours to my endurance on big days.
  • + 2
 @elyari: exaaaactly that !
  • + 3
 @number44: i have used the sunrace 11-46t this whole season, best cassette i have used so far! a lot better than the XT 11-46 when it comes to durability and how the gears are set.
  • - 1
 @Structure-Ryan: World Cup downhill racers use 36t front, often for 11t back. Eagle buyers need it too. Because suddenly they pedal down the gnar. I rest my case...

@scott-dl - I may look into it when my XTR cassette wears out. I am considering Sunrace or lashing out for Sram XD driver and X01 cassette. So the price difference is like 76€ for Sunrace against 65€+220€ for Sram, so not that... wait WHAAAAT?!
  • + 2
 The steepest pitch I can climb with decent fitness requires a 28t chainring to 42t out back if I want to keep a high cadence (29er). The closest trail to my house is at this pitch for 80% of the trail. I have to walk certain parts because I can only clear certain sections on fresh legs (which you don't have after 2,000 feet of climbing). I still spin out a ton going down with 28t and 10t. 500% is about the perfect gear range for a decent rider who is decently fit. 50km/hour is only 31 mph, which really isn't that fast. I get up there plenty on my local trails.
  • - 1
 @hamncheez: fitness level has little to do with it. It's more about genetic and training based cadence preference. And then trails and fireroads all over the world come in various pitches and surfaces. So it's a combination of many factors. Eagle simply gives lots of room to cover everybody everywhere.

I personally can't imagine climbing a 29er on 30 - 50t... just can't. If I had my 6 year old daughters 145 cranks then maybe... If I had a 150-160 29er with 1.5ply tyre in the front and 2ply in the rear, I'd probably run 34t front with 11-46 cassette with 46 as a gear to flush the legs off lactic acid from time to time. I won't lie last summer during all day rides I wish I had 46t in the rear, but not as bail out gear, as this is a misconception leading to involountary stop and pushing, possibly with serious back pain. I'd like that flush gear to keep legs fresher during the day. I guess everyone has been there where you climb on some gear and then you upshift for a moment to rest, then downshift, then upshift again, until you find yourself on the last cog riding up at the pace of a 90 year old hiker. That's no place to get a medal. That's you fkd up, get ready for the suffer fest until the day ends, no matter how much you eat drink and rest - and tomorrow you are out. That's about heroism of climbing at all costs, a problem that Eagle and tripple chainsets promise to solve.
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: I never said 30front/50t I said 28t/42t, but I actually meant 30t/42t it was a mistake.
  • + 1
 @hamncheez: I know, I just got a flashback of seeing an E29 with 30t front and 50t back and got carried away...
  • + 2
 @parkerab:
@wakidesigns

What you are all missing are the the days with heavy backpacks during multi day trips. Tell me you are going up extended climbs 20% with 8kg pack in 30 - 36 with flats and I'm inviting you for a free stay and some climbing and beers in Bavaria.

Also I am certain a lot of those granny gear addicts are flat pedals user. My experience has been I need 1-2 gears easier than with clips and I have used both for a long time . Simple mechanics/ergonomics. ..
  • - 2
 @wildedge586: at which point does flat pedals vs clip-ins matter? I say you involountarily ate a big chunk of bullcrap. There is no proof for clip ins being more effective than flats. NONE. Nada. Bike handling is another matter. Also 8kg in the back pack? That's what I was talking about. Climbing on bike at all costs. Makes little sense to me. Riding up at pushing pace is rather inefficient use of strength and time. Thus cannot be talked about in performance terms. And if you do that you cannot imagine how small size is your niche of bike usage. While Eagle is adressed to everybody. Just push the freaking bike as if nobody would ever know. If One Up Components made 10-50 cassette, I would not say a word. But let Shimano make 9-56 and there will be folks saying it's worth it. Just like guys at Sram were getting calls if they you 10-42 XX1 will work with tripple chainset as soon as they released it back in 2011 or 2010 can't remember
  • + 2
 @WAKIdesigns:

No absolute proof but a lot of indication's pro clips for efficiency after you ve read up here

bicycles.stackexchange.com/questions/14059/are-there-any-scientific-studies-proving-the-benefits-of-clipless-pedal-systems

Makes for nice bedtime reading...

Also these gearing threads seem like a touchy topic and whenever I read your post I am reminded of this

dilbert.com/strip/2005-08-19

Not meant disrespectfull because your colorful and humorous posts are what keeps me coming back since the articles often lack focus
  • + 0
 @wildedge586: I asked for scientific proof, hence the first link must be a joke Smile
  • + 2
 @WAKIdesigns:

Did you click the link and subsequently read the several linked scientific studies? Spoiler alarm: it''s still no unrefutable proof.

But there''s a" good reason" the ratio from 0.66 has been around since pretty early in mtb evolution/history throughout 8/9/10 speed shifting. If you're able to crank out more than 3-4 watts/ kg FTP eagle and e13 cassettes are unnecessary. But the other 95%weekend warriors are wishing for easier low end gearing other wise they have to turn 40 rpm up the steeper hills with their meager power/weight ratio and bigger than 0.8 gear reduction.
  • + 1
 @wildedge586: Goodnight Vienna. Case closed.
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: 36/11 is only 5% higher than my 28/9. Clearly, this means I'm 95% as rad as a World Cup downhill racer. I can live with that. Wink
  • + 2
 @wildedge586: With about .66 on the low end I AND OTHER BIKERS SPIN OUT ON THE TOP END WITH STOCK 11 SPEED CASSETTES
  • - 2
 @hamncheez: take it easy. Settle down man... Instead of lifting weights, doing hill sprints, learning how to track stand, hop, get over logs and rock steps in order to get better at climbing a mountain bike, some people study cadence and gearing of their favorite doper while he is climbing Mount Ventoux...



AND BY THE WAY, GLUTEUS MAXIMUS IS THE BIGGEST MUSCLE IN YOUR EFFING BODY AND UTILIZING HAMSTRINGS IN PEDALLING IS JUST ROBBING IT OFF ITS OPTIMAL POWER OUTPUT!!! AND NOBODY REMEMBERS TO PULL ON PEDALS HOURS INTO THE RIDE OR WHEN THEIR PULSE REACHES LACTIC THRESHOLD!!! NOT EVEN TOP ROADIES!!! AAAAAAH COCKSUCKERS!!!!
  • + 2
 @WAKIdesigns: NERDS, NERDS, NERDS, THEY'RE EVEYWHERE!!! Directed at everyone above.
  • + 1
 @lightsgetdimmer: I NEED TO SCREAM AT STRANGERS SO I DON’T SCREAM AT THE ONES THAT I LOVE!!! I need to make breakfast to my kids every morning, coffee to my wife and there are days when I want to kill myself. Everyone needs a fkng black sheep, a fkng witch to burn in order to function properly instead of starting to kill people. I choose to kill Eagle and ahit on Boost and carbon rims. Aaah


Aaaaaaaah


Aaaaaaaaaaaah
  • + 2
 @WAKIdesigns: So clipless isn't for spinning on long rides, its to give you more power on short bursts. There is a limit to how much you can press down on a pedal- you body weight! you push down too hard and you'll go up! When clipped in, and you're pulling up already on the other leg, it gives more power from the pulling up, but it also allows more power to be pressed down on the power leg. For road biking this is important if you are passing, or need to close up a hole and tuck in behind someone, or PR on that one section on Strava. In mtb its useful for getting up to speed to have momentum to clear tricky climbs and pedal more smoothly so you dont' spin out.
  • + 0
 @hamncheez: yes. As I said, it is highly questionable whether it gives anything for long climbs on a mountain bike. But even if they are good for hard accelerations, how many do that? I always clip in when riding a hardtail and on fully for control on fast descents in real mountains. I miss them sometimes on some moves on climbs, like to pull my bike over a rock step or a log. But then I am getting a bit paranoid about stalling and not being able to clip out so for local tech climbs I prefer flats to be able to jump from the bike whenever I wish to.
  • + 3
 @WAKIdesigns: please don't kill yourself, think what would happen to the comments section Frown
  • + 6
 @WAKIdesigns: You've got some pretty strong opinions for a guy who's still learning how to clip out of his pedals...
  • + 2
 @WAKIdesigns: my pedal stroke (clipped in) definitely changes on hard accelerations, and I definitely use the pull - more to remain seated/low than to get magical hamstring power. If you start pushing really hard and you don't have any way to pull down, you end up having to stand and mash, which eats a lot of energy and isn't always great for balance. You're probably right that there's not a huge difference in just regular pedaling, but I use it all the time for short bursts of speed approaching obstacles, passing, etc.

@garneau565 ROASTED.
  • + 0
 @bkm303: yeah. but we started talking clipins for climbing vertical miles, not pulling Chris Akrigg moves or launching out of BMX gate

garneau565, because Crank Bros with cleats set to 20 degrees are a breeze to clip out from... please... that intimidates me as much as a teenager telling me about how much sex he is having
  • + 2
 @WAKIdesigns: Whenever you are in Slovenia, tell me. I'll show you the climbs which would be easy peasy with an eagle and are a pain in the ass (barely pedalable, in some cases you do have to walk) with 32-42. 30-42 would of course be easier, but then i would be spinning out on the flats.

BTW, walking is just a horrible thing to do and i only want to do it on really steep, technical stuff, where there's no way to ride up. Walking on a fire road is just dumb.
  • + 0
 @Primoz: Then I’ll just push the bike and be faster at the top than you
  • + 0
 @Primoz: I just mean that Eagle is a product for a niche group. I'll show you plenty of climbs in my area where your 50t cog will be useless, simply due to the lack of grip and risk of tipping backwards. If I had Eagle, I'd have to run a 38 or 40t chainring. Since I am a freak who likes slow cadence.
  • + 2
 @WAKIdesigns: External travel adjust forks are a generally overlooked solution to unwanted uphill wheelies. And Primoz speaks the truth. Slovenia has mountains. If you're doing a 1000m + ride you want to walk as little as possible otherwise you start to wonder why you brought your frigging bike. And as I've mentioned before, climbing certain sections can be an enjoyable challenge. You said it yourself, it's a test of skill like any other. One man's niche group is another man's normal. Why does it bother you? My smallest ratio is 0.59 and sometimes I use it. Should I start shopping for anal dildos and listening to Bronski Beat? Is that what you're saying?
  • + 1
 @BenPea: Look, I had two profound experiences in my life that changed my view on gearing. By 2009 I would be with you on that low ratio train.

First: a 65-70 year old man passed me running up while I was on granny ring. I said f*ck it and bought 10sp 11-36 cassette, having 32t in the front. Since then I started training on the gym and never had much problem with rather hairy climbs around my place. It took me half of a year to adjust. 2 years later I bumped up to 34t front.

2nd - a trip to Italy. Climbing from Garda Lake to Monte Altissimo in 3,5h + 0,5h pushing the last part which is virtually unclimbable. Then coming back to the bike rental shop and guy asking me how much did it take and saying, you're f*cking strong man. Two days later i was climbing Monte Tremalzo on Liteville 601, 170 fork and Super Gravity tyres (5h from Riva del Garda). I passed at least 20 shaved XCers cranking up 150RPM. The second experience told me I was right.

Toughing up just works. Always. What Eagle does to MOST people (read not all people), it just takes away this incentive. I can suck and get away with it.

BTW Wheelieng on steep is a matter of three things: poor skills, too low gear and it's too steep.
  • + 1
 @BenPea: most progress takes part with MTB minded practice/ activity off the trail. Gym + sprints + deliberate skills practice. You have choice, I can do that to improve my riding, or look for some product. And the option no.1 improves ALL aspects of riding. I got off my limb and faced those tired legs, took freaking faith, that this terrible sht, like going to gym full of dumb people and terrible music or doing hill sprints, or going out to parking lot pays off within a year. And it's not about volume, it's about consistency.
  • + 2
 @WAKIdesigns: I think I've heard those stories. I've been passed by joggers too. It's fine, I've separated myself from me ego. Toughening up is boring, time consuming (how many hours do you have in your day?) and unnecessary. My fork winds down, my balance and weight distribution management are good. I have the heart of a hamster, the legs of a jack rabbit. I don't think I'm going to get any tougher, frankly. As @CeeCee said, gyms are for the alternative movie industry. I even hate the word "gym".
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: As for "looking for some product", I'm on 2 x 9. All I did was take an old triple ring, swap the 44 for a bash, stick on a 20-tooth granny and fit a Blackspire Stinger. I'm not a racer, I don't train, I do fun stuff.
  • + 1
 @BenPea: I think you should give gym a try then. 3h a week. Your fun stuff will be waaaay more fun. After a few years you'll be like: ahhh too late to go for a ride, raining outside - perfect moment to go to the gym! Then you may eventually nerd out about it. And the worst bit about it is that you'll look at all those people around and get depressed... because you will realize that they are on this gym since a few years, they have no clue what they are doing and they are not progressing at all. .

Ego is also underrated. It is a tool, it depends how you use it. If a faster dude intimidates you and gets you bummed out once or twice, and motivates you to do something to be more like him - it's good. But if it keeps happening and you eventually take a grudge, it will eat you. I've been there and can manage it these days. I know a few dudes like that and I'm fricking disgusted by them. It happened to me very lately, that it was me being the better at something and a dude took umbrage because it is usually him being the star. I didn't feel a tiniest bit of pride. If you see a few dudes pushing each other like this 50/01 thing, what do you think makes them push? Fun? Yeah, but there's certain degree of ego involved. Probably a big one. Trying to outdo your buddy, do something better or come up with even more stupid idea.
  • + 2
 @WAKIdesigns: I'm not convinced. The more you hang around with nobs, the more time you need to spend with other nobs in the seventh circle of fitness hell to be able compete with the former in the nob race?

Sod that, if I get to the top of my chosen hill without too much pain and pushing, then that's job done. There are so many better ways to spend 3 hours and I'm not a sponsored rider. I'm self-employed, have small hyperactive kids and low-level musical ambitions. Time is precious. Gym is just below self-tattooing my scrotum with a biro on my list of priorities..
  • + 1
 @BenPea: I haven't mentioned a few important factors here. You sound like you've never had a good training program that's no1. Vast majority of people who go to the gym have none, they go around like fat headless chickens, or they have one that will make them grow chest, bicep, compact and round their arse, loose weight. I mean, their training goals are just f*cked since they often come down to: look good (at best) and "can tell that I go to the gym, cuz one ought to go as a modern form of prayer and submission to social norms" (in most cases)

However, a mindful approach to the Gym with use of a quality program does for you the following:
- improves on bike performance in a plaethora of ways, strength, handling etc.
- injury prevention in case of a crash - trained body is a durable body
- maintains your fitness in times when you can't ride (injury, sickness, workload)
- improves your coordination after you teach your brain and body to move correctly, fire muscles in particular sequence - aside of increasing strength of those muscles
- makes you have less work related pains, like neck pains from sitting by the desk, working in carpentry, whatever.
- makes you a better dancer
- makes you a better lover
- compound movements like deadlift, reaching fatigue limits through reps (max 15 though, no 100 crossfit bullshit) release a coctail of hormones and stimulants. Maxing or near maxing deadlifts and deep squats in particular increases testosterone levels and make you high as a fricking house. You want to jump and f*ck everthing. which leads us to
- makes you a better husband - happy wife happy life.
- you look good and feel good due to all of the above.
- it lower cortisol levels in the long run = less of depressive states.

All that from spending 2x 1-1,5h a week. It can be a home gym too...

There is nothing that deteriorates a mountain biker more than one 3h ride a week with no other form of workout... and then you get dudes who say they ride road to complement MTB. 3h of road riding a week gives you... NOTHING ELSE THAN 3H OF RIDING ON A ROAD BICYCLE. In training season I try to ride 1h a week on road to flush muscles of sht, but I have no delusions as to what it does to my body or on trail performance as it's value for that in time scales of a regular person is zero.

Signed, father of two kids, 4 and 6. Architect and troll. If I can do it, most people can... oh I also do cold showers, f*cking amazing. if you push into the area where you get shivers (after you learned how to control your breath and not have them in the beginning), your body goes "whaaaat the faaaaack" releases all sorts of hormones and stimulants, connects you directly to your reptilian part of the brain - the adrenaline rush is amazing.
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: ITS NOT ABOUT THE LOW GEAR ITS ABOUT THE HIGH GEAR!!!!
  • - 1
 @hamncheez: F1 or Rock Crawler, you fo the math
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: getting that.6 ratio is not rock crawling. Being able to pedal at 30mph isn't F1
  • + 1
 @hamncheez:
@WAKIdesigns

Gym is good, yoga is good, stretching is good but nothing is as good venting your anger online aka pinkbiking. But time off the bike to improve on the bike is not available for everybody.

Also climbing/bouldering indoors gets me through the dark season.
  • + 4
 @WAKIdesigns: you said it yourself above, you're a freak. Now stop pushing your freakish opinion down other people's throats. And Eagle is not niche, 1x10 IS. Because the average rider can't use it. I'm in a good shape and i'm on the edge of 1x11 being useable with a 32T in front (on Sram's 42-10 cassette). But i'm too stubborn to put the 30T back on the bike (i've been cursing my decision to go with a 32T many times). Even 1x11 is niche for a lot of riders, because it doesn't have enough range. Eagle does. Therefore Eagle is mainstream.

I'll be going with Eagle and a 32T so i have a pure, but rarely used granny gear in the form of 32-50 ratio. The majority of stuff will be handled by the smallest 11 cogs. That will also improve the life expectancy of the cassette. Win-win.

EDIT: and NO WAY IN HELL am i going into the gym. I'd rather watch youtube for those three hours or ride my bike, depending on the season. I am going to an exercise class, where we do stuff with only the body weight, but sadly it's only an hour per week and only over the winter. It helps immensely, but no way in hell do we train specifically to be strong enough to use stupiddly hard gear ratios. And before you start shouting your 'get tougher routine', it's not the legs that give up on me on steeps, it's my lungs and heart. And this is not something that gets fixed by going to the gym. This gets fixed with cardio training.
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: Interesting points, but I think I'll pass. And the last bit is just worrying, there's a reason we invented boilers. Do you get your kids to kick you in the bollocks every morning too to release the hormones other forms of suffering cannot reach? Actually that would explain a lot, no offence ;-)
  • + 2
 @BenPea: A convoluted witch hunt on a 50t piece of aluminum alloy by a self-identified troll-cum-racer shouldn't diminish the suitability of a health club as a porn site. 2x9 forever?
  • + 1
 @ceecee: Forever? That might be pushing it, but it's possible.
On the other point, Waki's the kind of brute I think might actually do well in the industry, but he needs to acknowledge the fact and contact the right people.
  • + 1
 @BenPea: Seems ideal for big mountains, and is bash- and dirty finger friendly if that six ounces or whatever must be eliminated. Also, steel rings. Even in the steep little mountains here a 28t alloy 1x ring only lasts as long as a chain. Plus I bet the fast-wearing ring helps wear the chain more quickly. So, an extra $60 every six months or less for a new ring in addition to a new chain. Plus shifting on an XT 11-42 cassette starts to deteriorate after two chains have been worn out on it. And SRAM wants me to put a $350 cassette on there to boot? Or use a unit marketed as FULL-PIN? Forget it. If someone wants to argue that cycling in the mode with which Pinkbike concerns itself is White and economically elitist, and that Eagle is at the sharp end of that stick, I'm all ears. The overlap of American and Nazi eagle symbolism and the close ties that SRAM has with 'German engineering' aren't that much further in the background. Is it random that Waki received a somewhat conditional invitation to Munchen a few comments up?--Schweinfurt's just down the road. I'm guessing he won't be going for all the frei Bier on the continent. He's no dummy, nor brute, or he wouldn't need to toughen up so severely. Of course the Axis intersects Shimano, and 2x9=18.
  • + 1
 @ceecee: That's a lot to process. I'll have to engage my brain's granny ring and get back to you at a later date.
  • + 1
 @ceecee: The first part is bang on though.
  • + 1
 @BenPea: 'If One Up Components made 10-50 cassette, I would not say a word.'
  • + 1
 @ceecee: yes I wouldn’t say a word, because I do believe it is a niche product. No company goes around saying that single speed has performance benefits for trail riding. Then the majority of people in majority of bike parks don’t pedal during their laps, I guess single speed could shave 300g of unsprung mass aye? Yet Sram doesn’t make XSS Drivetrain
  • + 2
 @WAKIdesigns: But they do make a 7-speed DH specific group. Because, you know, sometimes it actually is usefull to have more than one gear even on a DH bike, but there is still no point in having 12 of them...

But hey, you like walking up the hills, i wonder why you don't go SS on your enduro, trail, XC or whatever bike you ride daily. After all, all you need is to get tougher and you'll be pedalling up the steeps with a single speed in no time.
  • + 1
 @Primoz: word picking, I walk when my climbing pace reaches pushing pace. You see, I’m a climbing conneseur... i like it quick and hard. And spinning like a sissy bouncing up and down seems embarassing to me. So I’d rather walk like a man than spin like a Joey
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: the mid-support on that last post was a little floppy, lad.
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: well i prefer to be a touch slower and use the bike the way it was meant and the way a human is most efficient in a position, that's MUCH more ergonomic than pushing.

But hey, look at me, i'm a weirdo, when i have to, i almost always throw the bike on my shoulders, even on fire roads. Since carrying it is much easier than pushing it.
  • + 1
 @Primoz - I have to be god damn honest with you. I'm just trying to see how far I can pull this anti eagle argument, and everytime I bring it up someone like you pops up with useful information. No hard feelings, neither against you nor Eagle, I could not give a tiniest damn what people ride Smile On trail, in person, I take note of others setup only when they start talking crap about how life changing is this thing they are running. The last time I would pay attention to such expression would be 2009 if someone would have popped up with a dropper post.

So, all the best mate. Sorry for involving you in my exercise Big Grin After all I am trying to understand why would people use... Eagle... or 28t chain ring... when in my days of double chainsets I was wishing to have 28t as a granny to 36t.

Cheers!
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: Too bad this post is burried in a long thread under an old story, since you just blew ANY thread of credibility you had from before. Can't believe i used to think you might know what you're talking about. Luckily you quickly turned into a vile troll. This is a whole new level though. I hope as many people as possible see this and start downvoting any of your comments, good or bad. If it was up to me this kind of post would be a very good reason to start thinking about a sitewide ban.
  • + 1
 @Primoz: C'mon--that was supposed to be an apology. And an exercise! It's difficult to distinguish the trolls from the Troll around here. The geographic origin is correct even if the birth nationality isn't. He's the Slavoj Zizek of mtb commentary. Your position is somewhat vindicated by the voting. Still, until that day arrives, remember--a downvote is an upclick. It's maddening!
  • + 2
 @Primoz: I have to be honest again, I can’t care much what you think about me. Yes I have no idea what I am talking about. Whatever makes you feel better. I’m grateful for this discussion so thank you. I didn’t intend for a moment to win this argument

@ceecee - I love Zizek. He is a genius. I wish everyone could listen to his lectures. The perverts guide to ideology should be a mandatory watch for every human being. “Earth is not a caring mother, she is a whore trying to kill its child the moment it is born” I bet Leo from Pole didn’t hear that.
  • + 13
 It's got to be gx eagle, well played Sram for skipping the usual trickle down of new tech and jumping almost straight to the groupset that people can actually afford.
  • + 8
 I find products like the 1up tool in head tube more impressive, when looking at what people want for their bikes. I would rather give up a fanny pack/back pack and carry everything on my bike with a 11 speed if I had to choose over 12 speed.
  • + 4
 That might be considered more of an accessory than a component.
  • + 4
 @dirtnapped: I kinda agree, but its also the best headset top cap I have ever used. Threaded steer tube is so much better than using a star nut. That part of 1up kit (that can be purchased individually) is a component.
  • + 1
 @H3RESQ: hadn't considered the headset top cap. Haven't tried it but it definitely sounds good.
  • + 1
 I agree, legitimate helpful innovation that 1up headset tool. Then 3 products that really were just coming around the bend expectantly for the last 15+ years, "innovative".
  • + 8
 I think a fact that is being very much overlooked here is adding more gearing options to the rear of the bike is great for achieving bigger gearing spread but terrible for suspension performance. Putting a huge dinner plate of a cassette on the rear hub adds a ton of unsprung mass into the system whereas a gearbox could provide the same gearing range but keep the mass as sprung and concentrated closer to the center of gravity of the bike.
  • + 3
 In Sram's defense, their GX level 12 speed cassette weights roughly the same as XT 11 speed, and less than those sunrace cassettes everyone is talking about here
  • + 1
 Correct but if you`re concerned with 100-120 g difference in cassette weight then you`ll consequently have to ditch the enduro crowd favored DH casings since those are easily 200 g or more.

Gearbox is probably christmas calender giveaway, haha. Pinkbike would go crazy....
  • + 1
 @wildedge586: Not the best analogy. There is no way to get around it- tougher tires are heavier. Cassettes, however, can be had in different weights without sacrificing their primary function.

A lighter cassette is very beneficial to your suspension performance. Remember Gwin winning chainless and talking about how well the suspension performed? Part of that was ditching the unsprung weight of the chain. Think of how much work your suspension does for you- all that work doesn't apply to things hanging off the actual wheel. There will be less stress on the rim, spokes, etc, plus faster wheel tracking over rough ground with a lighter cassette.
  • + 10
 Meh, 12 speed. All you suckers will be standing around looking when 13 speed is announced next year. Wink wink.
  • + 7
 shuuuuuuuuushhhh. Or what sound do lizards make?
  • + 9
 I'm thinking a set of TRPs would look nice under my Christmas tree to replace my SLX 7000s that have Shimano's patented ECBP. (Ever Changing Bite Point)
  • + 6
 out of these 3 gx eagle is truly the only market-changing component. the trp's are just quite nice brakes and the e13 is just an improvement of an idea cassette cog makers have done for years. I feel like at least one of those new spacer-travel adjustment dropper posts should be on here.
  • + 9
 GX eagle single-handedly kicked shimano to OEM hell.
  • + 9
 In your dreams! Wink 1) Needs XD Driver, which means buying a dedicated driver for your wheel if it does not come stock (and many don't) 2) SRAM ergonomics are not on par with Shimano's 3) Do you really need a 50t sprocket?
  • + 0
 Just buy Sunrace's 11-50t cassette that can be used on Shimano freehub bodies for more range with out getting an XD Driver.
  • + 4
 @cool3: does @YouHadMeAtDrugs statement about OEM not come through to you? As in OEM suppliers like Norco, Trek, and Giant putting GX eagle on bike versus xt? An xd driver for wheels is super easy to get as its usually an option. Yes shimano shifter does feel better than sram its just unfortunate that you have to get the rest of the drivetrain to go with it, and yes the 50t sprocket is a wonderful bailout option when you need it and its an especially nice thing to have when you have to go up a real mountain to get to your downhill.
  • + 1
 Ya, I don't see Cannondale buying Sunrace cassettes for their retail builds Smile
  • + 1
 I told Sram to go fuck itself after I had been on it since 2007, XD driver is what really turned me off. 1x10 XO short cage derailleur is so crisp and smooth, just hard to find XO shiters and short cage clutch der ... . Went to XTR m9000 a few months ago, never looked back
  • + 5
 E13 is awesome option as 11/10 speed upgrade, definitely would like to install as soon as current cassette will be worn;

Trp brakes - I do not see any benefits over hope Shimano or sram;

GX 12 - never tried, I believe it is awesome as a part on new bike, rather than drivetrain upgrade
  • + 4
 Shimano should just bite the bullet ditch it's crap freehub body go to XD then I'm sure a shed load of people would be very happy running full shimano. So imaginary product of the year for me is Shimano XD 11speed M8000 cassettes with options ranging between 9/10 to 42/46. They'd be sub $100 and not rust with the 1st splash of water like GX. See sense for 2018 shimano please.
  • + 5
 I've been running the E13 9-44 for years and the 9-46 since last Nov. I will Never go back. I recently demo'd a 12 speed Bike and ran out if top end with a 32... I have more with my 30! Their valves are the best as well
  • + 4
 Well to be fair if you wanted to match top end, you should have been running a 34t on the 12 spd.
  • + 3
 The biggest change for me this year has been an after market seat post lever. But not Rockshox cause it was dumb how long they took. Also an aftermarket suspension component. But making an exisiting item cheaper, shouldn't really be component of the year.
  • + 6
 TRP brakes proven itself under GWIN?... HOW?... the guy does not use brakes.
  • + 6
 I thought it said 2017 Comment of the Year Award Frown
  • + 5
 Scram GX 12 Eagle: 12 speed to the masses.
Is this 1986 all over again?
Last time I checked, my bike has 30 speeds.
  • + 5
 LOL! Good call.
  • + 2
 a bunch of those speeds are redundant. you've got 18 speeds at best
  • + 6
 WHAT ABOUT PINKBIKE COMMENTER/TROLL OF THE YEAR?
  • + 2
 I have both the 9-46 cassette, and TRP Quads.
At least in my experience, the 9-46 isn't much more noticeable than the 9-44(I ran this cassette for a year on another bike), and the TRP Quad doesn't have NEAR the power of Saints. I bought 'em thinking they actually had Saint power, but with better modulation. I find myself sometimes having to use multiple fingers,and I still don't get the power I need. I've also found them to be really noisy(I'm using the pads they came with on Ice Tech rotors).
My long-winded point here, is that IMO it'd have to be a slow year for new product for either of these two to win 'component of the year'
  • + 1
 I love that 5 sentences by PB standards is long-winded. Sadly, TLDR is why SMEs are still needed... skipping the details and reading the punchline makes everyone think they're an expert.
  • + 1
 I can't even believe the e13 cassette is even in the running. I had nothing but trouble with mine, and I've never had an issue with any cassettes that I've owned even the old 9 speed ones. The e13 shifts worse than SRAM and Shimano, creaks like a mofo, and requires a special tool to remove it. One thing I've learned is to never trust AJ Barlas reviews. Take what he said, and it will be the complete opposite.
  • + 1
 GX Eagle for the win in this group. It's widely spec'd and brings excellent gear range for people like me who don't have the fitness or cash to justify spending a ton more for the more expensive wide range 1x options (the Sunrace 11-50 just came out and therefore isn't really in contention for component of the year).

A good 2x system would do the job just as well, but it does seem awfully out of trend right now.
  • + 1
 "Sunrace 50t just came out" heuh sorry I got mine from Bike-discount.de on the 5th of June...
  • + 2
 $150 gets you the OneUp 50 tooth expander and cage that makes my M8000 XT drive train very close to Srams. Lots of money left over for upgrades and I have the solid XT drivetrain to just keep riding!
  • + 0
 can you replace pieces of your xt cassette when they wear out or do you have to buy a whole new cassette plus your oneup hack ring?
  • + 1
 That's why all those expander cogs suck. Once you wear out your cassette you need a new cassette AND expander cog. Been there moved on.
  • + 1
 @acali: i moved on too, but let's be fair, that expander tends to last 2 cassettes. they have so many teeth, they wear slower
  • + 1
 It is interesting to see that alternate drivetrain component companies getting traction after too many years of the big guys taking up the entire market share. Although I am not a huge fan of the cassette, but it clearly has shown to be pretty solid. With Sram and Shimano brakes having production issues, I am not surprised to see TRP up for a nomination. I do not see much for TRP's higher end brakes around Calgary, so I can't speak for the ride quality or serviceability. Clearly something to take note for future builds. GX eagle is the clear winner from my standpoint. Finally a worthy bird to fight the well priced Shimano Seagull 11-46. The XT is such a go to for 1x conversions around Calgary. The value was just great and easy to sell. GX now makes the price point 1x customers have to make a more difficult decision.
  • + 1
 Eagle straight up. Brakes actually look and sound great but not a real innovation or game changer. E-13 cassette has really great implications for every man but again nothing truly new. Every person I know who has adopted Eagle, especially the nay sayers rave about it and the chain, chain ring and derauleur and newly refined and designed. 11 speed was always great but low and high you could not have both. Sram did the work and brought it down to realistic price for most people in short order. Bravo.
  • + 2
 For $250 CDN I changed out my 11-42T SRAM cassette with a 11-46T Sunrace and with the additional One Up Mini Driver and 10T shark cluster get the same range as Eagle! Now we're talking!
  • + 1
 I'm glad for all the Eagle stuff. It lets the 11spd XX1 components go on sale! For me, I'll take the range 11 speeds give me with the option to change out the front chain ring if I care to be geared a bit higher or lower on any given bike. I run 1x11 with a 30t on my 29" bikes and a 1x11 with a 32t on 27.5" bikes. No complaints and saves me 100g of weight and a few hundred bucks. I have ridden Eagle bikes and never found the trail where I cared for another gear. However, if you are someone with the ball fortitude to pedal hard at 40mph running a 34 or 36t but need to grind up a steep climb for 2 hours I could see Eagle at that point. For me I don't go fast enough or slow enough to need that range.
  • + 1
 e13 TRS cassette.......great idea, smart installation......made out of cheese! Only lasted 3 months. Even though you can replace the components the "wear fast" that gets expensive. X01 Eagle cassette replaced it and is now 6+ months with no major wear.
  • + 2
 Maybe better picks:
MRP Ribbon Coil (27.5" coil fork FTW... or Ohlins, but only 29 Frown )
PUSH AC3 coil conversion kit
Race Face Cinch power meter
Deity Tmac (everyone seems to love them)
Wolf Tooth CAMO chainring setup
  • + 4
 These are the picks....ughhh...2017 sucked.
  • + 1
 Shouldn't the OneUp Components EDC system thing be on this list? www.oneupcomponents.com/collections/edc/products/edc-tool-system

Who didn't want that the first time they saw it?
  • + 2
 i didnt want it. i can carry all the same tools on my frame using backcountry research straps (if i want to pay the bike industry) or with some electrical tape or velcro. I dont want to tap threads in my fork.
  • + 3
 Is that a component?
  • + 0
 @adrennan: My favorite part of the one up system is the threaded steer tube, you can even order just the top cap kit from them, to have this better system and don't need to add the tool. It is lighter than a star nut system if ran without a tool if that helps you consider as well.
  • + 1
 @adrennan: Or in my Camelbak. Wink
  • + 2
 accessory/tool, not component
  • + 0
 @H3RESQ: Since you are concerned about the weight of the star nut, I am really interested to know about your bike build...and your body fat percentage (I know I have more than a star nut to lose from my belly).
  • + 1
 @hamncheez: that makes sense now that I see the other categories.
  • + 1
 @meesterover: lol. I don't care about weight, I like the convenience.
  • + 1
 @nothingpretty: I did the option with the 100cc pump. I like it. Contemplating the steerer tube option though.
  • + 4
 I will stick with my 11-46T 11-speed Di2, thanks.
  • + 3
 At first glance I thought it said " Comment of the Year Award". I couldn't click fast enough.
  • + 2
 Having wrenched on a fleet of rentals this past fall, all of which using the gx eagle drivetrain, I must say I am not a fan.
  • + 1
 Demoed a Scalpel SE and it had a GEeagle. Fucking sick. Hands down the best thing that has hit the market this year. Super crisp on the shift and it just works.
  • + 2
 "...so you can install it at home."
a cassette I can install at home? definitely product of the year.
  • - 1
 Oh yes i remember the desperate please from every one i know. I need a 12 speed! when will we have a 50 tooth in the back people cried! More like Eagle was shoved down our throats. Not to mention its specd on so many bikes because its actualy worth about one quarter the price it sells for.
  • + 3
 Shimano xt 11 speed should win again
  • + 1
 It would if Shimano added an XD cassette to M8000 to go smaller than 11T
  • - 1
 I'm not a physicist. But, would 511% really have an advantage when it comes to climbing? The GX has "only" 500%, but the 50t will have better torque, being closer to the outside of the wheel. Maybe does not seem like much, being only 4 extra teeth, but 4 extra teeth in literal size seems like more of an advantage than an extra 11%. If for some reason someone doesn't understand the point I'm trying to make, it can be demonstrated easily. Get your wheel moving from a stop using your finger on a spoke, the farther to the outside you get, the easier it gets. Even by only moving a little amount. Just my thought. Maybe this has already been covered, if so, never mind!
  • + 27
 Correct, you certainly are not a physicist.
  • + 13
 wtf this guy just invented leverage
  • + 0
 It allows you to use a smaller chainring without making your top end more spinny (your smallest sprocket is smaller). So yes, it is an advantage.
  • + 0
 + a bigger chainring will always be more 'efficient' than a smaller one.
  • + 2
 No need to get the more expensive G-spec variant as the Quadiem SL is pretty much the same brake, but at $50 less.
  • + 4
 but how will people know that you like Aaron Gwin? You'd have to tell everyone about the tattoo of his face you got on your sausage, show them, let them touch it... Brakes are an easier way to show your fanaticism.
  • - 1
 I think a lot of the people who complain about not needing a 50t, or e13 cassette haven't been on rides longer than 3 hours. Or haven't been on a bike for days and days and days on end. Truth is, while you don't always need that gear, it sure is nice when you have nothing left to give and still have miles to go. There were several times while bike packing across the Middle East fully loaded with camera gear, camping supplies, food, and water, that I would have given just about anything to have something a little more than the 42t I was pushing. You can stick to your 1x10, I'll take my extra gears
  • + 6
 what percentage of mountain bikers are bike packing across the middle east?
  • + 7
 @arrowheadrush: if i had to guess, probably 98-99% of all mountain bikers are currently doing so.
  • + 3
 That was my thought. Even on 34 front i rarely drop into my 50t, but if you are doing a big all day ride, the big ole saucer plate in the rear can be real nice at the end of the day.
  • + 2
 I think you're right, but why would that invalidate their perspective? There are a lot of riders who don't go on rides longer than that - probably the majority of riders. I think you might be in the minority here. You know they have e-bikes now...
  • + 2
 i'd have to give it, to the cane creek helm, a decent top end coil fork, what's not to love about it.
  • + 1
 GX? as good as it might be but just making something that is overpriced kind of affordable is not an innovation!
  • + 2
 Bikeyoke revive. Actually solved an issue plaguing so many dropper posts.
  • + 1
 The brake and the TRS cassette are seriously good. But i think that this award goes to the GEagle.
  • + 0
 GX eagle isn't cheap TRP brakes are here because of gwin I'd vote for the 9-46 cassette but its too expensive as an upgrade as well.
  • + 0
 Pinkbike somehow lucked out and got the only well functioning TRP brakes this side of Aaron Gwin's bike. Or maybe they were Gwin's?
  • + 3
 how so? Im interested in the TRPs so would love to hear what you're referring to before investing. I have yet to read anything bad
  • + 0
 Yes please explain, they're the most consistant, dependable brakes I've ever ridden, and I've tried them all. What's the issue you're having?
  • + 2
 Why wasnt the Bike Yoke Shifty nominated!?
  • + 2
 Love my GX12, that 50t on my 31LB bike is a life saver lol
  • + 1
 yes, it doesn't matter, but those gx cranks are butt fugly
  • + 1
 Warrantied my eagle 3 times already lol trash
  • + 1
 Shouldnt some random pump be on this list? Seems like s dull list to me.
  • + 4
 Pumps aren't components. They are accessories.
  • + 2
 You sir are correct. Please take my pump as a prize.
  • - 1
 You guys are killing me talking about 12 speed drivetrain crap. Spend some damn time in the gym and you wont need that stupid looking serving bowl of a cassette from SRAM.
  • + 1
 Nr.1: don't know it.
Nr.2: won't pay it.
Nr.3: can't afford it.
  • + 1
 Well that's clearly GX Eagle winning then.
  • + 0
 This year seems like an easy choice. GX Eagle not only rides great but tons of people actually use it.
  • + 2
 BOOST GOT Robbed!!!
  • + 2
 Meh. No BrandX droppers.
  • + 0
 There are no dentist products nominated.....
  • - 1
 Shimano XT Di2! But Eagle will probably win cause is paid sponsor after all!
  • - 1
 GX Eagle for the win...
  • - 1
 Shirley oval rings.....
Below threshold threads are hidden

Post a Comment



Copyright © 2000 - 2017. Pinkbike.com. All rights reserved.
dv56 0.158585
Mobile Version of Website