2017 Specialized Enduro - First Ride

Aug 14, 2016
by Mike Kazimer  

Rumors about the new Specialized Enduro have been swirling about the internet for months, fueled in part by the emergence of a what looked like a photo of a bike based on the same radical one-sided design found on the Demo 8 DH bike.

As it turns out, Specialized had nothing to do with that cleverly manipulated image, and in fact, although they considered it, they never even made a one-sided prototype. Instead, the new Enduro uses a slimmed down version of the familiar X-Wing frame design, but there have been a host of updates to ensure the bike maintains its relevance.

There are a total of four models for both the Enduro 29 and the 650b: the S-Works and Pro, which have full carbon frames, the Elite, which uses a carbon front triangle and an alloy rear end, and the full-alloy Comp. The number of sizes has been increased, and both bikes are now available in S, M, L, and XL.





Specialized Enduro 29 Details

• Rear wheel travel: 165mm
• Wheel size: 29'' (27.5+ compatible)
• 66º head angle w/ 160mm fork
• Threaded bottom bracket
• Boost hub spacing
• SWAT door on carbon frames
• Compatible only with 1x drivetrains
• MSRP: $3,000 - $8500 USD (complete)
• S-Works frame w/shock: $3,500 USD
www.specialized.com
Specialized Enduro 650b Details

• Rear wheel travel: 170mm
• Wheel size: 27.5''
• 65.5º head angle w/ 170mm fork
• 2.6" tires front and rear
• Threaded bottom bracket
• Boost hub spacing
• SWAT door on carbon frames
• Compatible only with 1x drivetrains
• MSRP: $3,000-$8500 USD (complete)
• S-Works frame w/shock: $3,500 USD




What's New?

With the new Enduro, it's almost as if Specialized made a list of all the "constructive criticism" that riders had about the previous design and set off to address every single gripe. The result is the most refined iteration of the Enduro yet, the culmination of nearly seventeen years of evolution. Although the latest version might not look quite as futuristic as some may have hoped, there are still plenty of details that will have likely have riders nodding their heads in approval.

There are now full-carbon version of both bikes, and the Enduro 29 can also be called into action as a 27.5+ bike with up to a 27.5 x 3.0” tire for riders interested in going that route. In North America, even the Enduro 650b comes with 27.5 x 2.6" tires, a width that's getting pretty darn close to plus-bike territory. The amount of travel has been increased to 165mm of rear travel on the Enduro 29, while the Enduro 650b now has a whopping 170mm of travel front and rear.


2016 Specialized Enduro Launch
All models with a carbon front triangle are equipped with Specialized's SWAT downtube storage system.
2016 Specialized Enduro Launch
Internal cable routing and a revised frame shape gives the new Enduro an even sleeker look.

Internal cable routing? Check. The tangle of brake and derailleur housing that previously looped underneath the bottom bracket is gone, making for a much tidier looking frame.

Threaded bottom bracket? Check. PressFit 30 may look good on paper, but in the real world it's proven hard to keep those bearing from creaking; the return of a good-old-fashioned threaded bottom bracket shell is a welcome one.

Oversize bearings? Check. All of the Enduro's bearings are now the same size, whether you're talking about the chainstay pivot or the main pivot, which will make it more likely that a shop will have the one you need in stock.

SWAT box? Check. The ability to store tubes and tools in your bike's downtube may seem a little gimmicky, but it's actually a clever use of space, and makes it even easier to hit the trails without needing to wear a pack. There's no SWAT box on the aluminum-framed Enduro, but it's a standard feature on all of the other models.

Metric shock sizing? Nope. Although we're seeing more and more bikes being released with metric shocks, the Enduro's shock stroke and size remains the same as last year. Specialized's AutoSag feature, a secondary valve that makes achieving the right amount of sag as quick and easy as possible, remains a standard feature on all models.

150mm dropper post? Ok, so this hasn't happened yet either. Bummer. The new Enduro comes with a 125mm version of Specialized's Command Post IRcc on the M, L, and XL sizes, but there is a detail that suggests something else might be in the works: that dropper has a 30.9mm diameter, while the new frame has a 34.9 seat tube (a shim is in place to take up the extra room).


2016 Specialized Enduro Launch
A carbon rear end is in place on the S-Works and Pro models.
2016 Specialized Enduro Launch
There's Boost spacing at the front and rear, and all of the suspension pivots now use the same size bearings.

Geometry


Enduro 650b: The Enduro 650b now has 170mm of rear travel and a 170mm fork up front, but despite the bump in travel the head angle remains unchanged from the previous version at 65.5-degrees. The seat angle has been steepened to 76-degrees, and the reach has been lengthened by five millimeters.

Enduro 29: The Enduro 29 also has more travel than before, with 165mm in the rear and a 160mm fork up front. The head angle has changed on the 29er – it's a degree-and-a-half slacker than before, and now checks in at 66-degrees with a 160mm fork. Like the 650b version, the seat angle has been steepened, and the reach has increased ever-so-slightly.

Specialized Enduro geometry




Specialized chose to launch the new Enduro on British Columbia's Sunshine Coast, which just so happens to be the location of the Coast Gravity Park. I was able to spend one day shuttling laps in the park aboard the Enduro 650b, and the next on the 29er exploring the network of amazing trails outside the small town of Sechelt.

Both bikes felt familiar right off the bat, which makes sense considering that neither one underwent really radical geometry changes. The biggest difference I felt was with the Enduro 650b – those 2.6” tires have an immense amount of grip, and it took me a bit to get accustomed to the way they handled on the hardpacked berms in the bike park. That extra width, especially in the rear, made it a little harder to really get the tires on edge. They felt best on rougher, more natural sections of trail, where they seemed to smooth out everything in their path, and made it easy to carry a ridiculous amount of speed. Personally, I think I'd run the bike with a slightly narrower rear tire, something in the 2.3” to 2.4” range, which would make it easier to find the side knobs while still maintaining the traction and control provided by all that rubber up front. Even though the Enduro 650b now has 170mm of travel, it hasn't forgotten its manners, and the easygoing nature present in the previous version still remains. It's still an all-mountain bike through and through, rather than being a mini-DH bike that's almost solely focused on downhill performance.

The Enduro 29 has a well-deserved reputation for being an excellent descender, and its downhill prowess has only been improved by the slacker head angle and additional travel. The loop we rode had several steep and rough sections, but they were rather short, which means I never felt like I was able to fully open it up to see just what the bike was capable of (I have a feeling the answer is "anything," but we'll have to wait for a long-term test to see). It was the big-wheeler's climbing capabilities that ended up being a pleasant surprise – I was able to easily navigate through a few tight and tricky section of trail that at first glance I hadn't expected to clean. The climbing position is very comfortable, and even in the fully open position the Monarch Plus shock was free of any excess movement. Speaking of suspension, the S-Works version of the Enduro come with Ohlins suspension front and rear, and the Pro models come with the Ohlins STX shock – we'll hopefully be spending time on those components in the near future to find out how they stack up.

My initial impressions are that the new Enduro doesn't push the design boundaries too far, but the updates do bring it right in line with its contemporaries, where it's ready to take everyone from weekend warriors to elite racers as far as they'd like to go.


2016 Specialized Enduro Launch
The new Enduro had no trouble floating off the well-sculpted jumps in the Coast Gravity Park



Visit the high-res gallery for more images from this article.





390 Comments

  • + 170
 Very happy to see a threaded bb here, not that I'll be buying one but hopefully a sign that the big manufacturers are cottoning on that pressfit sucks! It would be great to see It extinct within a few years!
  • + 32
 wish giant would do this
  • + 18
 @stubb: i have ridden Giant press fits with Shimano plastic BBs for years, and never had any problems. Switched to an alloy RaceFace and got creaking almost immediately. Unfortunately I just bought a new bike with a threaded BB, so I'm not going to get to experiment with going back to a plastic BB, but I'd say moral of the story is to stick with plastic BBs in pressfit frames.
  • + 2
 @dthomp325: pretty much exact same thing as I experienced, replaced the shimano cranks with race face and figured i better upgrade the bb to RF too and now my dreams are haunted with clicking noises
  • + 35
 Pinkbike finally admits that PF BBs suck!! About time!!!
  • + 1
 @dthomp325: All my PF work spot on. If you are having issues maybe it is improper install. (Its gota be clean)
  • + 11
 Here's how you know press-fit sucks: You have to convert it back to threaded using a Praxis adapter to make it work. Specialized is back on the radar for my 2017 bikes!
  • - 21
flag oldtech (Aug 14, 2016 at 7:37) (Below Threshold)
 @sevensixtwo: I know 29 sucks then because my 26 wheels fit it.
  • + 1
 Maybe the good thing about Boost, is it along with 1by will allow manufactures to go back to threaded bottom brackets. If they really changed to PF for the reason they told us, geometry, this is a trend that will hopefully continue.
  • + 3
 @dthomp325:
Moral of the story is sticking to Shimano for BBs
  • + 27
 The industry should take note when the most up-voted comment on a new bike has to do with a threaded bb.
  • - 9
flag oldtech (Aug 14, 2016 at 13:44) (Below Threshold)
 @jdendy: @jdendy: Industry only cares about $. If they cant make $ they cant keep making bikes. Riders will always come 2nd to the $. If you want something so bad you should just make it your self. If you don't have the skill or knowledge hire a builder to do it for you.
  • - 16
flag iqbal-achieve (Aug 14, 2016 at 13:45) (Below Threshold)
 I'd like to see them start to realise that internal cable routing sucks! Internal has absolutely no benefits. This would be a fantastic bike for the amateur racer apart from the having all your hoses and cables threaded through the frame. So so stupid. A few years down the road there will be an article featured here in PB about ridiculous Enduro fads from the decade and internal cables will be #1. Can we just fast forward to that moment please.
  • + 1
 Pressfit is all about cost, and for what Spesh will charge for this bike, it should be threaded. Having said that, just about every high-end Carbon road bike is PF, so it's not going anywhere, and none of my road bikes ever creaked. My mtb came from the factory with Praxis-like threaded cups, which is the way to go if you have PF.
  • + 22
 actually the bearings in a threaded bb are a push fit in the bearing threaded cup
  • + 8
 @nick1957: Exactly but fools don't want hear that or accept it.
  • + 1
 @nick1957: sorry nick. My fat drunk thumb down voted you. Can't reverse it Frown
  • + 8
 @nick1957: Yes, but you can replace the cups and bearings for under £20 is they start creaking. Once the tolerance on the frame is f##cked, it will cost you a new frame or you will have to switch to a praxis BB to get around the problem.
  • - 2
 @ThomDawson:
A fantastic bike for an 'amateur' racer? Whaaaaaat? I think the Enduro covers the range from amateur to professional. Ever heard of Jared before?
You stated that you hate internal cabling, but didn't actually explain why. I would like to know, as I can't see any negatives to it, only positives.
Cables are out of the way, and it makes the bike look cleaner.
Also, it's not an 'enduro fad', in the sense that it's not just enduro bikes that have internal cabling, and neither is it a fad. You're comment is all kinds of stupid.
  • + 3
 Was hoping they discontinued booooo....st
  • + 6
 @Jack-McLovin: woah now calm down Jack.
My comment on amateur racers is relevant because an amateur racer doesn't have a team mechanic to sort out the ridiculous work load of internal cables - he is the team mechanic. I'd consider this bike as an amateur racer but having my hoses and cables threaded through a load of holes in the frame would seriously put me off.
If you think that having your bike look better is a bigger benefit than practicality then you're exactly the guy that the internal cables fad was intended to fool. And that's fine by me, I just thought there'd be more sensible people out there...come to think of it I'm not sure why I thought that.
  • + 1
 @ThomDawson:
It's just tidy. I don't know about the Enduro, but on the Demo there is a plastic 'tube' on the inside of the frame, so that the cable simply slides through it and comes out the other end - no faffing about. I'm sure they would have done the same on the Enduro.

If anything it's more practical to have the cables inside the frame as then they are not susceptible to damage.
Besides, a lot of bikes will have the option to either have the cables outside or inside the frame.
  • + 0
 @ThomDawson: It's easier to clean though. Stuff always sticks to the external cables on my Enduro anyways...
  • + 1
 @karatechris: just look after those fine delicate threads one left one right hand
  • + 3
 @sevensixtwo: "Here's how you know press-fit sucks: You have to convert it back to threaded using a Praxis adapter to make it work"

Bingo.I do have one for sale for shimano I was using on my Enduro 29 by the way... threaded is much better!
  • + 3
 @ThomDawson: Old internal routing could be brutal, new stuff is much better with bigger ports and routing tubes, not just holes, I like how clean/protected it is, much preferred IMO vs the old routing under the BB. I self mechanic, and have no issues or excessive time when changing them out as needed.
  • + 9
 @natewarner: new internal may well be easier than older but is it as easy as installing a zip tie? Can you fit your calliper or lever through the larger holes? There is no point whatsoever, other than for vein enduroistas who think that cables and hoses are so ugly. Cables have been a part of bikes since forever but now for some reason we must hide them away and shame on anyone that has a cable on display, how vulgar. The largest loop of cable and the one most likely to be damaged in a crash or ripped out by branches etc is still hanging way out the front of the bike anyway - as well as all the other loops that pop out to say hello along the way to the mech or calliper they serve. So, there's no point. We all need to realise this and the manufacturers can get back to doing things in a sensible and pratical way so we can all focus on things that actually offer a performance benefit beyond boosting enduregos.
  • + 4
 @ThomDawson:
'We must hide them away and shame on anyone that has a cable on display'. You're just making this shit up lmao.

Whether someone has internal or external cabling - I don't give a f*ck, and neither does anyone else.

You are complaining about nothing. Please, stop.
  • + 1
 @ThomDawson: I'm just letting you know, some people don't have issues. There are plenty of cheap 26" bikes that still rip and have external routing. You should be fired up to get gear that suits your needs for so cheap!
  • + 2
 @Jack-McLovin: I'm not sure you quite grasped the concept of my argument, Im not suggesting that we should hang a leaf over our cables as if to protect our dignity. What I am suggesting is that whether you like it or not somebody out there decided to make internal cabling a 'thing' to sell more bikes and it worked. Now everyone has to have it. Just like everyone must have a bike bright enough to blind people but luckily a bright colour scheme won't double your work load if you need to change a brake, hose or to strip a frame, etc.
I never said it was a big deal, I don't scoff at people with internal cables (though I have had some myself and they made me physically sick). But the fact that there is literally no point other than vanity is ridiculous to me. The time, effort and money put into this gimmick could be better spent. So I give a f*ck, that's kind of why I sparked up mate, if you don't that's cool. I'm happy for you.
  • - 2
 @ThomDawson:
Ahh, so you're one of the, 'f*ck the bike industry, they're all money-grabbing c*nts!!' kind of people, and then proceeds to spend thousands on bikes and bike related items anyway? Lol...

It isn't a gimmick. It protects the cables, and tidies the bike up a bit. Those are two pretty cool things imo. Whether it was to sell more bikes (who buys a bike for internal routing??), or for practicality, who cares. The dude who thought of it is doing his job either way, and I'm thankful for it.
  • + 4
 @Jack-McLovin: nope, I'm just a 'f*ck internal cable routing' kind of guy.
  • + 1
 Sorry for offtopic but does anyone else have creaky RF Turbine threaded cranks?
  • - 5
flag Jack-McLovin (Aug 15, 2016 at 14:10) (Below Threshold)
 @ThomDawson:
So stupid, honestly.
  • + 1
 I need advice. My 2016 s works enduro has pf bb problems after 5 rides. Bike shop installed it, but I'm sure it's not their fault. What would be an inexpensive and different route from the plastic cups, I don't want to change my crankset, it's the carbon s works so it has to work with the crank as well. Let me know if anyone has experience with this!
  • + 1
 @gonecoastal: I chuckled. Here, I'll get you back to zero with my sober, svelte thumb
  • + 1
 @pakleni: is it a Turbine Cinch? If yes, remove, clean and lightly grease the NDS collar, then tighten it down just slightly more than the manual says. If you have the older alloy collar, those creak when they get dirty. The new ones are plastic and fort creak as much.
  • + 1
 @karatechris: same if you cross thread your threads. Gotta be careful.
  • + 72
 I've been drinking a lot, and it got me thinking--maybe Trump CAN save America and bring it back to greatness. Shit, I'm in the wrong forum.
  • + 2
 As long as he's wearing OAKLEY, he can! Lmao
  • + 2
 I believe he has a SWAT full of rational thought he's about to unleash
  • + 48
 Build a wall ride to get my vote.
  • - 13
flag pancakeflatted (Aug 14, 2016 at 11:51) (Below Threshold)
 @properp: a wall ain't gonna work.
  • + 9
 If it doesn't have TITS I'm not interested.
  • + 3
 @pancakeflatted: just because you cant work a wall don't mean I cant.
  • + 70
 The 29er King is back!
Bring on the '17 S-works Enduro 29er with 2.6 tires vs. Trek Slash 29 vs. Evil Wreckoning comparo, to end this!!! Wink
  • + 5
 that would be awesome! c'mon PB!!
  • + 5
 Don't count out the 5.5c. It might be shorter in the back, but that's Yeti's bit - the fork travel makes its intentions clear.
  • + 4
 Yes! That would be a great comp. I'm shopping for a new frame, and considering the Wreckoning, Santa Cruz Hightower, and Canfield Riot right now. The new Enduro just got added to the list.
  • - 4
flag aswin (Aug 14, 2016 at 12:43) (Below Threshold)
 Wait for the Nomad 29er and you'll have your batch.
  • - 13
flag shredjekyll (Aug 14, 2016 at 12:56) (Below Threshold)
 I think I'd go for a Jeffsy over any of those
  • + 3
 @Bluefire: Yeti rocks the reverse mullet with their bike designs. Party up front. Business in the back!
  • + 1
 @shredjekyll: Gotta be a troll, right?
  • + 1
 + the Santa Cruz Hightower CC. It definitely would be an interesting versus comparison.
  • + 42
 Imagine you buy a $8500 bike and the seatpost diameter doesn't even fit the diameter of the seat tube. And it has 125 mm drop.
  • - 10
flag poozank (Aug 14, 2016 at 8:07) (Below Threshold)
 At least their carbon bike is now fully carbon lol. Spec is so behind the curve.
  • + 5
 @poozank: tell that to Graves!
  • + 11
 This is actually a lot more interesting than people are giving it credit for.

The biggest limiting factor when designing a dropper post is the relatively small seat tube area. If you've ever talked to the KS guys, they'll tell you that the 27.2 dropper was a nightmare, because of the narrow seat tube it had to fit it. So, it would seem that Specialized has a new post lined up, intended for this larger diameter. How are they going to take advantage of that extra room?
  • + 16
 Seatpost shims work fine and do a good job future-proofing the frame with loooooong droppers on the horizon. Nothing to complain about here.
  • + 8
 Being 5" 5, a 100mm dropper is about the biggest I can use. Small drop isn't a bad thing on small and medium bikes
  • + 2
 Does the Specialized team run Reverbs? There is a 34.9mm Reverb out. The Wreckoning uses that size.
  • + 1
 @gonecoastal: I'd put my money on a new post that's got even more shit going on internally that requires a 34.9 diameter ... not just up and down ...
  • + 6
 @truckeetrash: not just up and down? Might it swivel? what else would it do? Change your effective seat angle for you using offset? I'm curious what you were implying.
  • + 4
 @speed10: he's either vaguebooking, talking about electric droppers with internal batteries or wanting a Reverb with "Butt-Plug" tech.
  • + 1
 @mnorris122: Sure, droppers on smaller sizes generally should be shorter, but many taller people are calling for 170 or 200 mm droppers. And modern bikes have shorter seattubes to accomodate that kind of travel.
@scottzg: OK, I agree it's fine to prepare the frame for long 34.9 seatposts. But these are already on the market, so it's not really "future-proofing" to spec their own dropper instead of a fitting one.
Of course it seems they have a new, wider and longer Command Post coming, the 76° seattube angle suggests they're counting on an offset design again and switching to a common zero offset setpost could be a problem. Whatever. But in the meantime, you get a short seatpost with a shim on your $8500 superbike, and that's simply unfinished product.
  • + 1
 I'm stoked on it. bigger diameter means larger diameter, more reliable sealing surfaces, especially on longer posts. I've been hoping we could get dropper stanchion diameter up to about 32mm for years.

Curious about clamps though, my Spartan has a 31.6, but with the thickness of the carbon seat tube, ends up using a 37mm clamp that I can't find a lot of aftermarket clamps for (I was hoping to get a Hope, but they don't make that big.) 34.9, plus a carbon seat tube? that clamp's probably close to 40mm.
  • + 1
 @groghunter: 36.6 on the carbon and the alloy isn't listed yet.
  • + 1
 @aaronfpeet: That would result in a .75mm tube walls... I'm thinking that's a misprint, because that sounds completely unreasonable.
  • + 1
 I'm not getting what the issue is. The spec for the 17 enduro seat post is the same as my 2014 Enduro 29... did I miss something ?

(Command Post IRcc, 12 position micro-height adjustable, alien head design, bottom mount cable routing, remote adjust SRL lever, 30.9mm, S: 100mm, M/L/XL: 125mm travel)

SEAT BINDER 36.6mm vs 34.9mm for older model - why does it matter ? internal diameter same one (and length - I run a 150mm KS just fine on XL enduro 29)
  • + 2
 (ignore)
  • + 1
 @groghunter: Dude. Come on. 36.6-34.9= 1.7
  • + 1
 @adumesny: We're mostly talking about the change in the seattube ID/OD. Although, it's the internet, so we've already gotten off track, and I image it's all downhill from here.
  • + 2
 @aaronfpeet: There's two walls, so you have to halve that. Come on yourself.
  • + 0
 @aaronfpeet: & yes, to be clear, I did the math in my head backwards. but that still leaves a wall thickness of .85mm. My alu hardtail, based on clamp vs post diameter, is 1.65. my carbon spartan would be roughly 2.65mm.

I'm just not buying a carbon seattube being structurally sound, especially with this bike's intentions, at .85mm.
  • + 3
 @groghunter: Alright, weed cookie did me wrong today, you win this round of Pinkbike's Simple Math challenge.
  • + 17
 What strikes me most even in the pictures (without first looking geometry chart) is that they completely ignored the trend of really lenghtening the cockpit and reach. To me the geometry seems almost outdated even now, so imagine what it will be like in one or two years from now. With those numbers they should have atleast put out a XXL size (without increasing the standover much). Look at what Kona did for 2017, increased the cockpit for 15mm and they had it quite roomy even before! Can't believe I'm saying this, but Kona seems to be the only one of the big manufacturers that is pushing the limits. Otherwise the features of the new Enduro seem really nice, don't get me wrong.
  • + 21
 The reach is actually not that bad. 450mm for a Large, which is more than a SB6c (447). Seat tube angle of 76 though, wonder how that will work out. Check out mtbr.com for complete geometry numbers.
  • + 2
 Totalt agree!
  • + 3
 On second thought, the STA of 76 may work out quite well with the Command post though, as it has a bit of setback.
  • + 0
 @oyvin10: Kona has 475mm reach for a Large Process 153 (+25mm) and 510mm for XL - whopping +40mm compared to XL enduro 650B. And being from Finland I have to mention Pole Bicycles which has 510mm reach (+60mm compared to Large Enduro) for size L of Evolink 150 27.5 and 535mm for XL (+65mm compared to XL Enduro)! Comparing to SB6c you are basically comparing an outdated geometry to another outdated geometry.
  • + 32
 @mehukatti: I disagree, although I like the concept of longish reach numbers, its not a competition on who can make the longest reach for a certain size. Both Santa Cruz and Trek have recent or new bikes with similar reach figures as the new Enduro, its hardly outdated, more a personal preference. For example, Josh Bryceland(188cm) rides a Large Santa Cruz V10(reach 420), Richie Rude(180cm) rides a Medium SB6c(reach 426), Robin Wallner(179cm) rides a XL Mojo HD3(reach 446).
  • + 42
 @mehukatti : "ignoring the trend", "outdated geometry"... as you said, it's a trend. Saying that current bikes are too short is a point of view, and Specialized disagrees. Kona agrees, and Pole also knows it's a great way to make a name for themselves, otherwise who would give a f*ck about one new small Finnish brand?
  • + 16
 @oyvin10: obviuosly those riders dont know what they are doing. The bike industry has told us longer is better, and obviously we have listened. Apparently we sumoly elect every bike model to get longer and longer every year, or their out dated.
  • - 2
 Agree on the cockpit being a bit short. 625mm ETT in the XL is the same as my hardtail in L which is a 2012 bike. Also a 1231mm wheelbase in XL is a bit short cf a Nukeproof Mega 290 is 1246WB and 642ETT in a XL. I think numbers more like Pole and the GeoMetron are where we will end up in a few years once everyone warms to longer bikes and accepts they are quicker.
  • + 2
 @fartymarty: When comparing ETT you should consider that the Enduro uses a setback dropper post(I think the IRcc is 10mm) and has a steeper STA. The mega has 10mm more reach in L/XL.
  • + 15
 Yeah, one bike has 1cm shorter WB and is clearly worse. Another has a 1cm longer CS and it is not possible to ride it. Seriously, bike industry has done a great job to bring up a new generation of riders which love numbers. Such things as balance, stiffness are not easily measurable so no one is looking at it.
Seriously, look at Yeti in M - not only reach, but also chainstay would suggest that this single pivot! bike should not ride at all.
Another example - the ETT. Look at this bike, then look at your beloved HT. See the difference in ST layout ? The REAL seat angle is very slack here, the effective is steep but - at which point it has been measured ? You do not know. For example Knolly has similar ST layout and they measure ETT at some height they choose as "typical saddle height" which can be translated as: what we put as an ETT measure has no meaning to you, go ride the goddamn bike!
  • + 0
 @oyvin10: changing seatpost is relatively easy and cheap, ditto sliding your seat on the rails a 10mm. An XL Mega (480 reach) isn't that extreme cf a L Pole at 510 reach. I guess Spec have never been too extreme in their geo numbers...
  • + 1
 @lkubica: Good point.
  • + 1
 @lkubica: It's all about numbers and always has been and always will be. Check out the Dirt article on DH geometry over the years.

The only reason I bring my own hardtail into the equation is that it's from 2012 and shows that the numbers are not that extreme. My full sus bike from 2004 (originally designed back in about 1999) has a 1200mm wheelbase with 160mm forks. Neither are perfect and if built a custom bike I would change many things but its a good point to start understanding new bikes and how they are likely to feel. At the end of the day you adjust to the bike you are riding. It's how we got by on scary steep hardtails back in the 90's.

I am sure the new Enduro rides absolutely amazingly. However one thing I can be sure of is that it will be tweeked and lengthened next year, and the year after and the year after until they find the limit. In the process selling lots more bikes to the Dentists and City Boys who can afford them.
  • + 1
 @fartymarty: Yes, changing seatposts is no problem, that was not my point at all. You were comparing ETT and stating that the cockpit was short. When in reality the difference in reach was only 10mm. The ETT figures when considering the setback dropper would only be about 10mm apart as well.
  • - 8
flag dthomp325 (Aug 14, 2016 at 6:20) (Below Threshold)
 @oyvin10: Don't know how I feel about the trend of super-steep seat angles. It's great for climbing, but forces you to stand more on descents, since your weight is too far forward when sitting. Makes longer 5+ min descents and enduro stages tougher when you can't rest as much IMO.
  • + 9
 @oyvin10:

Not only that but it confuses me sometimes how the community will throw an absolute fit about trends in mountain biking, but then turns around and bash a company for not following trends.

Thanks for linking the geo numbers though, appreciate that.
  • + 5
 I love it how "gravity" people whine on 29ers or Plus Tyres saying that these are for slow Joeys. Recently they even started bitchin on "too much" travel, telling some "getting overbike" bollocks, with "easier is not always better" being the ultimate stupidity. But long wheelbases, long teach and slack head angles, what are these? If not means of making it easier to ride at speed? They behave as if longer and slacker was stretching the realm of their expertize. Sorry, a bike with 1300 wheel base makes you a bit faster version of yourself but it doesn't turn you into Brendawg or into an expert in bike geo.
  • + 12
 @mehukatti: Frame geometry all comes down to personal preference. I have yet to see a frame with an expiration date on the geometry
  • - 6
flag poozank (Aug 14, 2016 at 8:05) (Below Threshold)
 The didn't need to. Spec was long to begin with. Have you even swung a leg over an XL enduro? It's huge. I'm 6'3" and I wouldn't ride one.
  • + 2
 @dthomp325: the seat angles have had to get steep because the chainstays are often so short you can't climb steeps....if you don't scale up the CS the bike also becomes unbalanced when descending/traversing. P

Mega290 XL has 480 reach and 450 CS and it still needs a steepish seat angle for big guys to climb ok. I can tell you at speed that extra CS length matters and you don't feel like your standing on the rear axle when descending.

The Enduro XL should have at least 440-445.

Disappointed they didn't sort the CS and also cut the 29er stack heights.....it's off my shopping list now...really don't understand that unless they are planning a XXL.
  • + 0
 @oyvin10: ETT is measured to the centre of the seat post and has nothing to do with the set back on the top of the post.
  • - 2
 @Travel66: Agreed. The bike must be balanced between front and rear. I'm not a fan of short CS either.
@properp: Also agreed. Look at Ratboy and Minnaar. Personally long works for me to make up for my lack of skill.
  • + 8
 @oyvin10: almost there - big long bikes are stable. If you need a more stable bike maybe your not as skilled as you think. hehehehe. Fuggin mountain bikers.
  • + 0
 @fartymarty: Yes, I know. That is why it is such a poor way of comparing frame sizes, especially when the frames are equipped with a set-back seatpost. If we review the case of the 17 Enduro size Large 650B, it has a stack height of 604mm, ETT of 604mm and a STA of 76. A 10mm set-back seatpost will slacken the effective STA by almost one degree(0.89). Leaving it with an (effective) ETT of 614 and a STA of 75.11.
  • + 1
 Kinda confused? Specialized website states an "increased top tube length". My XL 2014 has a 640mm horizontal. The new XL has 625mm? I know the seat tube has steepened a degree and head tube slackened 1.5 degrees so that helps explain a bit. How much has that top tube grown?
  • - 1
 O.K. reach increased by 5mm.. got it.
  • - 1
 @oyvin10: At the end of the day ETT its a guide and there are things you can do to tweak it.

For me wheelbase is the most important dimension as it is the sum of all the other dimensions.
  • + 9
 Everybody needs to shut up. Richie rude runs a 60mm stem. Let's put all of our focus on convincing him that he is slow because his geo is wrong ok.
  • + 6
 @Downhill29erplease: haha seriously so much bench racing by keyboard Cowboys on here
  • + 3
 @poozank: Guilty as charged.
  • - 1
 Adding 1 1/2" to your bikes reach does WAY more than andding it to your wheels. Saying bigger bikes is a fad is like saying 650b wheels are too...sorry all your new "standards" don't make up for your cramped geo.
  • - 1
 @FindDigRideRepeat: The shape of the bike has to be right before anything else including materials, suspension, weight, stiffness. This is a good read if you haven't already dirtmountainbike.com/bike-reviews/trail-enduro-bikes/nicolai-ion-tailor-made.html
  • + 10
 @dthomp325: wait...why would you be sitting on a descent??
  • - 2
 XL THEN.. 470 IS LONG...
  • + 8
 @FindDigRideRepeat: but adding reach doesn't necessarily make the bike better or more fun. nor is it necessarily a good idea. it all depends on the rider and the terrain.

personally...long bikes make me feel like a passenger...especially on the steep trails I prefer to ride. maybe more stable in a straight line, but difficult to shift around weight, ride jumps and pop around the trail and weight the front.
  • - 1
 @pancakeflatted: the only thing you're right about is simply adding length to the reach doesn't make a bike better. What we're seeing is geometry progress to longer more stable bikes. Like you said, you don't just make the reach bigger, it's everything together. For example my large process 167 has a reach of 475 wheelbase 1218 and CS 420. At 6'2 it doesn't feel big in the least, but is very stable, and thanks to the low BB and short CS rails turns and jumps like a bmx bike. Best of both worlds thanks to a geometry that all works together. Having a small bike doesn't mean it handles steeps or jumps better.
  • + 2
 @Travel66: And the tabloids didn't seem to fret about the Mega29's unfashionably long chainstays. On a bulldozer like that (and this) I think it makes some sense. Good to see some models growing cs length with size. Maybe this will catch on at one point and start a sizing 'revolution' with all models having optimized geo for their size.
  • + 1
 @FindDigRideRepeat: well...to each their own. maybe only one of my points is "right" dor you, but they're all right for me...right now!
  • + 3
 @pancakeflatted: no worries man, I'm just very happy to see the change of bike sizing. I came from a moto background and always found mtb to feel cramped and twitchy when things get rowdy. With sizing getting bigger I think proper body positioning becomes more important. I think you can get away with sloppy technique when the bike is smaller. That might be what you notice when riding longer bikes than what you're used to. The stability that's found with longer bikes isn't just in the straights, but also jumps, steeps, corners, you just have to be centered and have correct posture IMO
  • + 5
 I don't know if somebody else mention it but it comes with a 40mm stem. You can change for a 50mm to get more room and feel more confortable. The handling would be just as good atleast, I think we all agree on that? (Don't tell me that nowadays a 50mm stem is for XC bikes or something like that).
  • + 0
 @WAKIdesigns: a bitch coming from the biggest BITCH on PB priceless!
  • + 2
 @FindDigRideRepeat: maybe one day I'll figure out what this riding bikes thing is all about then ; )
  • + 1
 @fartymarty: and the blue collar tradesmen that own their own business and drive shittier cars at the expense of owning t best bikes!
  • + 1
 @pancakeflatted: just have FUN and go as fast as you can
  • + 5
 Ok, I get from the neg props that a 50mm is too long. Damn, back in the days a 50mm stem was short. Funny how things have changed.
  • + 1
 @properp: aye!
  • + 1
 @poozank: I'm 6'2" and made the mistake of wasting money on a XL
  • + 3
 @Travel66: I'm totally with you. I was shopping for a new bike this spring and so glad I didn't wait for this. The Wreckoning hit all the big guy numbers way better. Feels like the new Enduro 29 should have been a more extreme update but only half the things on their list made it to production. The XL E29 was the definitive big guy bike around here for the last few seasons. Now it's just another option for a size L rider.
  • + 2
 @crmellin: as in it was too big or too small?
  • + 1
 @bohns1: true but it's not as much fun taking the piss outta those guys.
  • + 1
 @FindDigRideRepeat: This is also Chris Porters (Mojo / GeoMetron) take on it.
  • + 1
 @passwordpinkbike: stem length affects more than length. The steering gets slower and you get more weigth on the front. Its a balancing act that may or may not work.
  • + 1
 @FindDigRideRepeat: big time on drops as well as the other features.....but nobody mentions that in the reviews...
  • + 1
 @alexsin: gonna run with my Mega290 XL, rampaging on her right now with only 150mm at each end. Mind you have had to "graves" my pikes with 3 spacers to get massive ramp up.
  • + 4
 @fartymarty: Isn't using wheelbase as a criteria for choosing bike size almost like using weight as a criteria to chose pant size? Does not say that much about the actual size.
  • + 0
 @oyvin10: If a bike has balance geometry you can use the wheelbase as the starting point and then look into the other dimension that make up the wheelbase ie reach / ETT, HA, CS / front rear balance. There are lots of bikes that have good reach figures that are too short in the rear or head angle is too steep. Without looking into the details you know that a bike with a 1250mm wheelbase is going to be a lot more stable than one with a 1100mm wheelbase.

One thing that no one ever quotes is trail. Given its affect on handling it would be good if trail figures were quoted as well. You could then compare handling between 650 and 29ers.
  • + 5
 @fartymarty: oh balanced geometry is nice, so is suspension. But every Pinkbiker has it solved. Do you even custom shimstack bro?! I remember this idiotic discussion about Demo where some frame builder said that Demos CS is too short and you can clearly see that by the way his front wheel bounces of things. A year later we learned that Gwinny runs his fork hard as fk. I mean... what is the list of goals of a person looking for a bike? How many of priorities look like a list of excuses to buy a new bike? Since 2011-13 bikes are frigging dialled. I am the problem, not the bike. Oh, it's hard to turn up a tight swtichback with long wheelbase on a climb: how about you do a couple of hops to reposition the bike? Too low BB, I am hitting rocks, how about you downshift one gear and time your pedal strokes? Is that too much to ask? Big wheels are bad at jumps, to do tricks, too much innertia - yea it's just that DH tyres on 26" bike have way more inertia, because they weigh a pound more each. That doesn't stop anyone to scrub the hell out of anything. It's hard to bunny hop on a 29er - is it? how high can you bunny hop on a DJ bike then? What stops your 70-100 pound bum from moving back and froward to act on weight distribution of the whole bike?
  • + 1
 @fartymarty: ETT is much shorter on the Enduro because ot the steep seat tube angle. I guess your HT uses 73 degrees? The Enduro uses 76 degrees, that shortens the top tube significantly and you must use a setback seatpost to compensate. That's why it is better to compare the reach figures.
  • + 1
 @zonoskar: My seat angle is 72.5 so 3.5 degrees different. If you do the maths there is 46mm difference with a 31" (787mm) seat height. For me the ETT takes into account how it feels sitting on the bike whereas reach only relates pedals to handlebars and doesn't take into account seat angle.
  • + 2
 @WAKIdesigns: well said. What it really comes down to is riders who think they are better than they actually are blaming bikes for their personal shortcomings. If you are good you can rip a shopping cart never mind a fully engineered carbon bike.
  • + 1
 I'm waiting for more brands to come out with bike with +500mm of reach and +1300mm wheelbase. So far it is only Pole and the Nicolai geometron.
  • + 1
 a gifted rider can rip a shopping cart for sure. but what if that shopping cart is too big? gonna be hard to rip.

I feel like I can tolerate and have fun on a bike that's too small...but too big and suddenly I'm a passenger.
  • + 1
 @poozank: 2016 XL = too big. Large feels better.
  • + 1
 @crmellin: what length stem are you running. I am 6'1" and would definitely go a XL with a 35mm stem. It would give me the extra inch I need in reach.
  • + 1
 @crmellin: Exactly, the XL is way to big and people who look at geometry numbers more than (old fat men making excuses) anything say it needs to be longer.
  • + 1
 @crmellin: What do you mean?
  • + 1
 @fartymarty: I'm 6'2ish rode 2015 in Large and it was too small. Can't decide between xl and l for the 2017, I like the reach on the xl but I dunno bike starts to get pretty long on the xl. The large has a longer wheel base now, but similar reach and super low stack.

Geo guru's what would you suggest for someone 6'1-6'2?
  • + 2
 @bootyslap1: GO MASSIVE. There's lots of reading on the internerd about long bikes being quicker once you are used to them. If I were buying a new Enduro I would definitely get an XL (im 6'1"). Personally I would want a bigger bike probably getting up to a 1275mm wheelbase.
  • + 1
 @bootyslap1: I'm 5'11'' and I ride a large Pole 176 with 520mm reach and 1352mm wheelbase. Best bike EVER! If you are going for the enduro get the XL. Roomier bikes allow you to get away with much more. Plus if you feel too stretched out just run a shorter stem.
  • + 1
 @fartymarty: Yeah. My thoughts as well. 1230mm wheelbase isn't that long. I can ride everything on my new bike which is 110mm longer in the wheelbase than my old one even super tight stuff.
  • + 15
 Sounds like some good improvements. Threaded BB, FINALLY! No more cable routing under the BB, thank GOD! Boost hubs means they also got rid of the stupid Spesh only 142+ frame / wheel proprietary design. That was also a biggie for anyone wanting to go the cheaper route and then add some better aftermarket wheels down the road. Or folks that just don't like roval.
  • + 24
 Afaik you can put regular 142 wheels on a 142+ frame, but not 142+ wheels on a regular 142 frame.
  • + 6
 I run two wheel sets. One the original 142+ and a standard 142 with no problems. I have to adjust the rear derailer, but other then that it works fine.
  • + 1
 @BrownestBiker: Yep - I have standard 142 Hope hubs on my 2013 Enduro, just a little tinker with the limit screws was all that was required.
  • + 2
 @Finn1234: I too run 2 sets of wheels on my 2014 Enduo 29, original carbon roval, and a standard 142 cheap Flow EX/Stans for park riding. so far I haven't even had to adjust the RD - surprising given the 2mm cassette offset spec number.

Not happy with boost - carbon wheels are plenty stiff (no need for extra 3mm spoke angle) and just tired of ever changing 'standards' - would have been happy keeping 135/150mm 2 sizes and be done....
  • + 13
 with the rise of 29er enduro bikes, maybe someone should address of 27.5 v 29er in today's market. many manufacturers would have us believe 29ers are better for XC, but 29ers seems to be gaining more traction now in the enduro market
  • + 15
 Many manufacturers ahem Giant.. would have us believe 29 is dead
  • + 14
 @rrsport: and how wrong they are...
  • + 33
 I don't think I will ever get a 29er, purely because of the type of riding I like to do. But I believe that me, and the majority of riders would be faster on the bigger wheels. If I could choose a bike for just racing, it would have to be a 29er. For everyday riding 27.5 is better for slapping turns and having fun (not that 29ers aren't fun).

None of this really matters to me anyway because I have a secondhand 26" bike since it is all I can afford... #26aintdead #26forlife
  • + 8
 @rrsport: giant just has trouble fitting their suspension design and desired ride characteristics with the larger wheel. I think the packaging ends with with longer chain stays than they are comfortable marketing.
  • + 4
 Many manufacturers want at least five years worth of sales out of all those 650b designs they spent millions telling us are the future.
  • + 4
 @rrsport: They also don't make a DJ, does that mean DJ is dead too?
  • + 7
 Giant could probably do a 29er if they bucked up and dropped the option for a front derailleur, but they seem unwilling to do that.
  • + 6
 @rrsport: yeah, Giant couldn't even get the geometry right on the 29" anthem and that's an xc bike
  • + 3
 @rrsport: until next year when Giant jumps on the bandwagon and realizes they could have more potential sales by offering a nice trail and enduro 29 to their catalog..
  • + 2
 @coolskidz: You can slap turns and have crazy fun on the newer crop of 29ers. Can hit the huck lines as well... Good times
  • + 3
 Reps at Giant are guilty of a few other anti 29er statements. They said that it is pointless to build a long travel 29e. Then on another occasion they said that it is impossible to fit a front mech on a long travel 29er because chainstays get super long. Not only Banshee Prime existed by the time they said it, Spec released Enduro 29 a year later, basically pissing all over their face. If they could only cope with sht in their own home like solving the ramp up of the suspensionfor coils shocks, or rather the lack of it, and make lower links sturdier.
  • + 12
 Stoked on the new enduro, but not impressed. I think we were all expecting a completely new frame & suspension design. I have to say though, specialized did a pretty damn good job with the lines of this frame and the minor aesthetics like the head tube. I'll take one please!
  • + 6
 As long as it isnt in that awful red and yellow
  • + 8
 Wait, I looked at the geometry chart a bit more, not as stoked now.
  • - 7
flag kev1n (Aug 14, 2016 at 1:24) (Below Threshold)
 And no metric sized shock, does that mean we won't see the rockshox super deluxe spec'd? that's a huge bummer. Damn specialized you doing us dirty with this redesign
  • + 6
 @kev1n: Not sure but I think Ohlins is the reason behind the non metric sized shock
  • + 21
 @kev1n: It comes with an Ohlins ... Don't need none of that RockShox shenanigans
  • + 2
 @Jack-McLovin: The cheaper 2 models come with a Lyric and Monarch plus.
  • + 2
 @kev1n: I´ll be working on that, don´t worry....
  • + 12
 I'm impressed. No gimmicks, no all new Specialized only 'standards,' all the little bugbears of the outgoing Enduro seemingly addressed and long, but not too long balanced looking geometry. This is the third generation of the X shaped Enduro and Spesh finally seem to have got the message that incremental refinement makes better bikes than all new better-er everything all the time. . I really want a go on the XL 29er, never thought I'd say that a couple of years ago.
  • + 1
 @panaphonic: Someone, in addition to Ohlins, has to be in the coil shock game for this bike.
  • + 7
 @Fix-the-Spade: still appears to have that incredibly stupid proprietary rear shock mount
  • + 1
 New suspension design? Why in the hell would spesh ditch Horst link FSR design?
  • + 1
 @hamncheez: apparently they have thi yoke that lets you put any shock, or at least i hope they offer it as extra part together with the bike www.pinkbike.com/photo/13819421 this is curtis keen bike
  • + 1
 @hamncheez: Some models appear to have a standard bolt this year. Even if they don't there's a german company does new links, they'll surely do one for the new Enduro.
  • + 1
 @Fix-the-Spade: @OLTI27 that yoke appears to be a one-off for Keenes bike, or at least thats what people are saying in the comments on that article.
  • + 2
 @hamncheez: Well that's a shame, almost full marks for Spesh then, but a little wobble on the landing...
  • + 11
 What I think is cool about the new Enduro is it's actually a really good deal. The Enduro comp goes for $3000 has full rockshox with 3 position compression adjustment, Guide 200mm brakes, SRAM 1x drivetrain, dropped post, that new SWAT door etc etc. I'm surprised to say that specialized actually made a bike that's a good value.
  • + 9
 Except there is no SWAT door on Comp as it has alloy frame Smile
  • + 2
 I do wonder why Specialized don't fit SWAT to their Al bikes as surely it's no harder to integrate than into their carbon models, possibly even easier. An Al bike with SWAT may even push a Specialized towards the top of my consideration list for my next bike - I currently have a carbon bike but am constantly worrying about it getting damaged in transport; with an Al bike I'm only be bummed to find a new scratch/paint chip.
  • + 4
 @Spoonmeister: I was thinking this. Probably Something to do with the strength of an aluminium down tube with a big hole in that area - possibly an area of higher loading or something. Or more likely just additional features to encourage purchasing the higher models.
  • + 13
 I wouldn't kick it out of bed for eating crackers.
  • + 9
 Some people need to grow up and stop holding a life long grudge against Specialized. I'm proud to ride a Specialized and if anyone frowns down upon me for that, then they can suck a fat one Smile
  • + 8
 Threaded bb sort of feels like complaining for years here on pinkbike has may have actually been worth it. Keep it up guys and maybe we will see an end to boost +, 15mm axle, 27.5+-, knock-block, wtb grip cut and all sorts of other things everyone knows is a bad idea.
  • + 13
 Think it will be more down to warranty returns more than online complaining. Noisy forums are one thing, when Mr Audi brings his six week old bike back and demands you either fix the creaking or give him his money back, that's entirely another.
  • + 7
 Fantastic looking bike! I am such a fanboi! Slec 29ers may be be the majority of 29er I ever rode but they do ride as if I have always owned them, just swing a leg over one and just go, no matter if it's EPic, Stumpy or Enduro 29. Only the Camber is kind of meh. This Enduro mmmm, lots of travel, swat, great cable routing. Maybe one day Wink
  • - 1
 Just more hate on the "Waki". . . . . . . .
  • + 4
 OK! Not a Spesh fan but some things they get right. Those gloves with gel pockets in the palm and the old Enduro tires are two examples. In this case, an aggressively aimed 29'r with at least 160mm of travel IS THE RIGHT DIRECTION! Still not a 29'r fan, but this is what I'd want if I were to go in that direction. Good job Spesh!!!! It's been a long time coming.
  • + 4
 Sick looking bike! Just be careful with those wheels...if these are the same traverse SL 30mm that came on my 2016 stumpy, the spokes are way too thin. I break a spoke every four rides and that's just charging on standard xc rides, not even bike park laps. If you plan on riding hard (most people buying this bike will), consider a burlier wheel set. Wanted to warn everyone because I got burned riding these wheels, replacing spokes every week. On the other hand, I have never ridden a faster bike than my stumpy, that beast is pure joy to be aboard.
  • + 7
 Did you have them re-tensioned after your first good ride?
  • + 1
 Roval wheels are garbage for the type of riding someone who owns an Enduro will do. Mine lasted less than a year because the spoke tension was all whack. My wife, who is an intermediate rider on a Stumpy, had the same experience.
  • + 3
 I had the same problem with these wheels. I got so annoyed fixing broking spokes after every other ride i sent them back to spesh and got them rebuilt with thicker gauge spokes. First ride on new spokes, broke em again. There is just not enough spokes for a wheel designed for Enduro racing. They are light for their width though if you don't ride hard.
  • + 2
 @dualsuspensiondave: Yep. You can re-tension the spokes as much as you want. They will last about 2 hours of aggressive riding then start to loosen up again. @ryan83 I cracked a rear wheel after one month, was running 30psi on a tubeless 2.35 nobby nic. It was a clean crack across the entire rim width, no sidewall rock strike or anything. "Lucky" that spec does $125 crash replacement, which still sucked because it wasn't a crash, it was rim failure.

@skill7 I'm really happy you made that comment. I was about to do the exact same thing and try my luck using thicker gauge spokes with this rim. I might have to just sell the wheels and go burlier. What a waste of money, spec should know better than to stock their aggressive bikes with xc style wheels. They are super light, but that doesn't always mean better : /
  • + 4
 @Billjohn6: Go with something different. I'm not sure on your weight but I am 195 lbs geared up, which no doubt contributes. I had my shop build up Hopes, 32H, DT XM 481's with sturdy spokes and the difference in performance is very noticeable. They are significantly stiffer and track very well compared to the Rovals. The weight ended up being 1900 grams but I"ll just work on my skills and fitness to get faster.
  • + 1
 @Billjohn6: don't bother with the thicker spokes. It made no difference except to add weight. I wasnt going to get much selling then them so mounted xc tires and use them for the odd xc venture. I'm riding a WTB i29 Asymmetric rim now with hope pro 4. It's noticeably heavier but bombproof. Easton Heist 30mm in the front.
  • + 2
 @skill7: No difference in strength, but the increased stiffness is easy to feel. Jobst Brandt measure a ~10% increase in stiffness using straight gauge spokes over 2.0 1.45 butted spokes on the same wheel.
  • + 4
 I guess the perks of being only 140lbs is that my rovals are still going great and feel fantastic!
  • + 2
 Just adding to the thread. Yup the wheels are the weak point on many Spesh models. Trashed my Stumpy Comp rear wheel in half a dozen rides so now relaced with a Chinese carbon 30mm to that 28h hub with proper spikes and nips and its working nicely. The 24h front is somehow holding up but it's flexy. They sacrifice durability for weight, at least on the low and mid range models.
  • + 2
 You had the old wheel set. I have been riding the new carbon traverse sl that addressed this issue. I am all downhill and race and have never had an issue. Wheels are bomb proof and dt 350 Hubs damn I love them!
  • + 1
 @Rider656: I am riding the 2016 roval traverse fattie sl carbon wheels. Pretty sure this is new version. I weigh 180lbs, well under their 240lb limit.
  • + 1
 @Billjohn6: guess I'm lucky as so far 1 year of riding rough AM at 205# without gear and they are holding up surprisingly well for me (2015 carbon traverse SL). Previous owner who races had issues with Eve and picked the Roval and was very happy, so they have 2+ years on them.

I did get a spare ALU Flow EX set for park riding as I'm worried about 24 spoke count (and too nice carbon wheel to trash) but only used those a few days so far. I did manage to crack a 26" derby carbon rim of my DH bike last year, but that was most likely a tire dismount issue...
  • + 2
 im since 2 years on roval traverse fatty sl 29 , 2 one month long trips in the alps around 10 enduro races 2 maxiavalanche around top 20 top 10 and training on them , broke 3 spokes only, 74 kg , i wanted them to fail as they cost shits loads of $$$ but till now they are sayving me $$$hit loads. im shure there are other that are not so lucky tho , but before this i was going thru 2 sets of wheels a year.
  • + 2
 I still think he had the old set or non fatties
  • + 1
 Had a ride last week where I put my foot into the front wheel (started to wash, unlocked foot, got tossed around bit) and heard a loud bing which abrupt slow down! I thought for sure I broke a bunch of (very thin) spokes. Nope. nada. good to go... whoa... those lightweight 24 spokes wheels are holding on for me...
  • + 3
 Seems Specialized played it safe with the 650b version. The Reign, Capra, Sanction, and, to a certain extent, the Nomad all follow the new ethos of long reach numbers. The Enduro 29, however, will probably be in a league of its own.
  • - 9
flag poozank (Aug 14, 2016 at 8:10) (Below Threshold)
 Based on what? At this point I'd say it's impossible for the enduro to be better than the nomad.
  • - 1
 @poozank: just wait for the new nomad to come out in a couple months with VPP 4.0...........
  • - 10
flag poozank (Aug 14, 2016 at 10:42) (Below Threshold)
 @speedy38racer: they will wait until late next year if anything. But yes 4 will likely be better. The current gen nomad is better than almost anything out there and will only get better.
  • + 1
 @poozank: It will be out this year. I was just in Santa Cruz and they told me I should wait before building up a new bike.
  • + 3
 @poozank: fan of vpp are you? Not everyone is! ! ! You have never ridin a 29er Enduro with an ohlins Spring have you?
  • - 1
 @truehipster: I've owned 6 enduros I'm pretty familiar with fsr, compared to fsr vpp is better.
  • + 4
 @poozank: I call bs. My goto rig is a Tracer 275 and the Enduro 29 climbs better and is plusher on the descents. That's my biggest complaint about the T275, as much as I do love that bike, it gets harsh on descents when I have to use my brakes constantly. I get used to it and don't notice it, but when I hop on an FSR bike and start going down, they feel like a new caddy in comparison.

VPP has some advantages, but it is NOT objectively "better" than FSR. ESPECIALLY going down.
  • + 0
 @TheRaven:

Take the nomad for example. Falling to rising rate suspension. It's incredibly plush. It's absolutely glued to the ground and as a result corners harder and is more composed at speed than an enduro. I would venture to say the nomad is the most capable "enduro" bike in fact. Same reason the v10 is the racing plow bike and the spec demo is the jack of all trades Dh bike. I'm not saying that fsr is a bad system. There are some good things about it, it's just the way specialized goes about business as if it was the cats ass of suspension designs.

I will concede there is some stiffening of the suspension under braking with vpp and with large square edge bumps it can get hung up.
  • + 0
 @poozank: Everyone thinks their suspension is the "cat's ass"...hell all you have to do is look up the word "ego" in the dictionary and you'll be referred to Dave Weagle.

If you ask me which suspension is "king"...meaning what still-used suspension design is the best of all time, i'll tell you it's FSR. FSR has been in use for over twenty years, and not only is it still relevant, it's still dominates the podiums at just about every pro MTB event that involves full suspension bikes. VPP, DW, Delta...etc...all have great arguments going for them, but they all have significant shortcomings (as you even noted yourself). So saying that Spec is "behind the curve" for sticking with a suspension design that has been around for ages and still wins races is more than a bit inaccurate.
  • - 1
 @TheRaven: When I say they are behind the curve I am not talking about FSR linkage itself rather their implementation of it. Im talking about how they were the last ones to jump on the 650b train and they shoehorned old geometry into the new wheel size so the first spec 650b rode like shit. Behind the curve in that they partnered with ohlins but put the shock to market before it was ready (it overheats). Behind the curve in that they are just now updating the enduro when it should have happened a few years ago to be competitive. Behind the curve in that until now the spec factory riders were on 29 inch enduros with the 27.5 link because the stock geometry sucked for racing.

Spec claims to be a great innovator ( and they used to be a while back) but what we've seen recently is they are the last ones to catch on and want to milk the market for money rather than push the cutting edge.
  • + 1
 @poozank: "When I say they are behind the curve I am not talking about FSR linkage itself rather their implementation of it."

Not following. How are they behind the curve on their implementation of the FSR design?

Also as an Intense fan i'd like to point something out - what you describe as "behind the curve" can be applied to any bike brand. Intense for an example - behind the curve in that they didn't have a Carbon FS bike until 2012, behind the curve in that they grafted new dropouts onto old geometry (Tracer 2) to get on the 650b train, behind the curve in that they dove right into the CCDB mess and had inlines blowing up after one ride, behind the curve in that their carbon frames still have major QC issues (like links that eat themselves, and factory-spec'd shocks that scratch the frame under compression, and chainstays that snap on fireroads). See? The same can be said for any brand because it's one hell of a sharp "curve". None of this changes the fact that both Intense AND Specialized produce some of the best bikes in existence.
  • - 2
 @TheRaven: See my other points, they hold onto and design for too long despite the market and put things out before they are ready, and they have to rely heavily on shock technology because their platform is lackluster without it, that completely relates to their implementation of FSR.

Intense is another matter, let's not muddy the waters, let's compare Santa Cruz and Spec like was mentioned earlier.

Santa Cruz: Partnered up with ENVE for the carbon rear on the V10 and other bikes and helped develop their DH rims, the winningest DH platform of all time and ahead of the game for geometry. Look at the nomad 3, put out a few years ago and more capable than pretty much any of its competitors even to this day and nothing was f*cked up with it out of the gate! *cough last gen enduro/Ohlinsoverheating/1stgen650bstumpjumper cough* How many years of "Carbon" Specialized frames have we had were only the front triangle is carbon but they have the audacity to call it a carbon bike and charge top dollar. Spec is a farce! Santa Cruz is now the most desirable bike brand out there.

Specialized once they catch up to were they need to be (*hint its after they already delivered dog shit to market) makes some good stuff I won't deny but they are such a shit company that they don't deserve your business. They deliver crap to market, people buy it like suckers and specialized uses that to stimulate cash flow and get free product testing for what they will release having worked the kinks out. Does that sound like a good deal for the consumer? Hell no. Back to Santa Cruz, the nomad 3 brilliant out of the box. I rest my case.
  • + 1
 @poozank: "they have to rely heavily on shock technology because their platform is lackluster without it, that completely relates to their implementation of FSR."

Same BS argument that hasn't held water for years. A rear suspension is a shock and a linkage. Shock tech is part of FSR just as it is part of any other suspension design. The fact that FSR uses shock damping to tame pedal bob instead of the linkage is simply a design choice. The end result is a suspension that has endured for decades and can still best the newest designs out there. Having anti-squat built into a linkage results in other problems, and it can't be turned off...I know the drawbacks of descending with VPP very well.

And the Nomad? REALLY?! From a company that has the exact same chainstay-snapping issues that intense does? I've had alot of time on the Nomad 2 and can tell you that it does not climb especially well (it gets flat out spanked by the E29 on climbs, I can tell you that from first hand experience) and has uncanny abilities to lead your feet into rocks. It also feels like a tank in comparison to the (actually larger) E29. So no.

Finally, the V10 the winningest DH platform of all time? Nope, that honor actually belongs to the Demo, ironically. Look it up.
  • + 2
 @TheRaven: The fact that FSR does not inherently neutralize pedaling forces is a detriment not a "design choice" it's an inherent flaw of FSR. Why do you think the epic uses a brain shock, why do you think the brain shock was invented in the first place but other linkages do not require such aids? Because FSR is inherently bad at pedalling, fact.

Now you are comparing the old model nomad to the far newer E29. Firstly, that's an asinine comparison, a older 26 inch bike vs a much newer 29er, the gen 2 nomad came out in 2008 and the E29 in 2013. A logical comparison would have been the Gen 3 nomad to the E29 (spec loses). Secondly, I never once mentioned the Gen 2 nomad, I specifically said Gen 3 this entire time.

Also, this is straight from the Santa Cruz website, "our flagship V10 model is the most successful World Cup and World Championships race bike in history." In big boy races that matter VPP is the winningest not to mention WC riders can actually push the limits on these bikes, it is at the limit where the superior design shines through.
  • + 1
 @poozank: "The fact that FSR does not inherently neutralize pedaling forces is a detriment not a "design choice" it's an inherent flaw of FSR."

Not much of an engineer are you? I'll give you a short seminar - FSR relies on shock damping to quell pedal bob, and as a result you can turn off "anti-squat" and enjoy a completely unhindered descending experience. VPP/DW has anti-squat built into it's design, so it can't be turned off, which results in a harsher descent when pedaling or braking. Seeing as the designer should have seen that brake jack could be a big problem during descent, this is the real "detriment". In the real world, VPP climbs real nice and descends alright, despite shock damping. FSR climbs real nice with correct shock damping, and descends like no other despite shock damping. Again, stop beating a dead horse. This argument was settled years ago and continues to be proven invalid race after race.

"Now you are comparing the old model nomad to the far newer E29."

Yup, and you are comparing a Nomad to an Enduro, which is an asinine comparison from the start. The Nomad is an SX Trail competitor (or maybe Enduro Evo). The Bronson is the Enduro competitor.

"Also, this is straight from the Santa Cruz website, "our flagship V10 model is the most successful World Cup and World Championships race bike in history." In big boy races that matter VPP is the winningest not to mention WC riders can actually push the limits on these bikes, it is at the limit where the superior design shines through."

Most successful does not equal winningest. And World Cup races are not the only "big boy" races out there. The Demo has more wins than any other DH bike out there. The Intense M would probably take this crown by a mile if not for the fact that they don't count the M1, M3, M6, M9, and M16 as one bike, even though it really is. The M1 was dominating WC downhill for nearly ten years before the V10 and Demo even showed up.
  • + 2
 @TheRaven: Not much of a close reader are you? I said FSR inherently pedals badly, you just expanded on anti squat, we are saying the same thing. It requires extensive shock damping to pedal well because its linkage does not account for pedaling forces.

So you admit your comparison is nonsense and then you suggest another nonsensical comparison. The evo is a dual crown park bike with a DH cassette, the SX trail is no longer made, and the nomad is 1x11/12 all mountain ripper. Again, horrible comparisons. The Nomad and enduro occupy the same segment of the market, the nomad just happens to outperform the enduro. Why is that so hard for you to accept?

Ok so we include the M3-M16, that still shows that VPP makes an top tier DH racebike. You say that VPP descends "alright" and then later on you talk about Intense dominating with the VPP linkage not to mention the V10 being the most successful DH bike of all time. Clearly it descends better than "alright". Are you a specialized shill, honestly?
  • - 2
 @poozank: "I said FSR inherently pedals badly, you just expanded on anti squat, we are saying the same thing. It requires extensive shock damping to pedal well because its linkage does not account for pedaling forces."

You aren't paying attention to what i'm saying. I'm saying that using the shock for pedal damping does not make a lesser suspension. It arguably makes a better suspension because it accomplishes the goal of being a great climbing suspension without being a harsh descending suspension.

"The evo is a dual crown park bike with a DH cassette"

Nope. There was one version of the Evo with a dual crown, but the other SEVEN are all single crown, 1x10/1x11 170mm travel AM rigs.

"You say that VPP descends "alright" and then later on you talk about Intense dominating with the VPP linkage not to mention the V10 being the most successful DH bike of all time. Clearly it descends better than "alright"."

I said the M1 dominated. The Intense M1 is an icon. The M3-M16 have done well, but not nearly as well as the M1. Do me a favor and look up the M1 and tell the class which suspension it had.

"Are you a specialized shill, honestly?"

Haha, nice one, hater.
  • + 0
 @TheRaven:

"It arguably makes a better suspension because it accomplishes the goal of being a great climbing suspension without being a harsh descending suspension"

It's not great climbing without lots of damping help, we've already established that, stop going in circles.

"Nope. There was one version of the Evo with a dual crown, but the other SEVEN are all single crown, 1x10/1x11 170mm travel AM rigs."

Once again you are comparing far older irrelevant things. The last gen evo was a park specific bike and there was not 7 gens of the evo, different spec of the same frame does not count as a different bike. The Bronson has no direct spec equivalent, it is between the stumpy and enduro. The enduro and nomad are direct competitors that are currently produced.

"I said the M1 dominated. The Intense M1 is an icon. The M3-M16 have done well, but not nearly as well as the M1. Do me a favor and look up the M1 and tell the class which suspension it had."

The M1 dominated because it had no competitors, Dh was in its infancy not because fsr is vastly superior as SC proved with the V10.

You've managed to go in circles, completely miss nearly every point that was brought up and are unable to concede your point when presented with fact. Consider riding without a helmet, you are already brain dead.
  • + 0
 @poozank: sure enough.. just in here weaseling around. Sure got that guy good.
  • + 0
 @Reacher: I know you said you had no friends so you liked to lurk forums but creating an account for the sole purpose of following me around because you are butthurt is a new low even for you.
  • + 2
 @poozank: We're going in circles because you have no argument, not because of me.

You've established that you're a Specialized hater, and that you don't really understand suspension or bike tech at all. You are entitled to your preferences, but the fact that Specialized makes world class bikes is not up for discussion. It never has been. The Epic, Stumpjumper, Enduro, and Demo have been among the best reviewed and most successful bikes in racing since their creation. That also is not up for debate, it's fact. There are plenty of reasons to hate Specialized, I mean it's an a-hole of a company. But that doesn't change the fact that it makes great bikes. Period.

There's my point. You can stop wasting everyone's time now.
  • + 0
 @TheRaven: I've owned 8 spec bikes in the past 10 years I never said they make bad bikes. I said they have shit business practices and their are better options.

You think you have a lot to bring to the table hear because you own a couple old shitty early 2000s spec bikes and mountain bike action taught you about anti squat. Until you can read and comprehend what other people are saying don't get in any more internet pissing matches.
  • + 2
 @poozank: "I've owned 8 spec bikes in the past 10 years I never said they make bad bikes. I said they have shit business practices and their are better options."

HAHA you spent a full five posts saying Specialized makes bad bikes. "Behind the curve", "poor suspension design"...these are YOUR words.

Again, you are entitled to your opinion. I can't say you are wrong for disliking Specialized and choosing not to buy their product. However, I can say you are wrong for claiming that they do not build top notch bikes. Specialized bikes run with anything out there, period. This is not an opinion, it's a fact that's been proven in racing and in recreational riding for more than three decades.

I do not agree with how they have chosen to run their company, but having ridden countless examples of their product over my entire riding career and finding them to consistently be among my absolute favorites, I have to admit that my experiences mirror reality.

A couple old shitty spec bikes - that may be your best line yet. I just did a count and found that I have been riding for just over 18 years. In that time I have owned, in one way or another, 53 bikes. 17 of those were Specialized. The oldest being a 1998 SJ and the newest being my 2014 SJ Evo. I've also owned Intense, Pivot, Turner, Ibis, Santa Cruz, Mongoose, GT, Fuji, Scott and Giant bikes in that timeframe. So yes, I think I have alot to bring to the table.

On "internet pissing matches" - I would recommend that you simply refrain from commenting at all. It's really just a waste of everyone's time when you do.
  • + 0
 @TheRaven:

Look back through our back and forth. I literally said, "Specialized once they catch up to were they need to be (*hint its after they already delivered dog shit to market) makes some good stuff I won't deny but they are such a shit company that they don't deserve your business."


Also look at my profile. I've owned many spec bikes. I wouldn't buy them if they were shit. That doesn't mean I am blind to the short comings and bad business practices. Given the other bikes on the market there are better options.
  • + 2
 @poozank: I'm glad you mentioned that post...

"...they already delivered dog shit to market) makes some good stuff I won't deny but..."

I'd like to hear what you consider "dog shit", and how you think Santa Cruz has never done the same.

"...they are such a shit company that they don't deserve your business."

I'd also like to hear what you think makes them "a shit company". I've already said that they can be a-holes, but that's far from "a shit company" especially considering the fact that the consistently create great bikes.
  • + 0
 @TheRaven:
Do you have memory loss? We already talked about this.

"I'm talking about how they were the last ones to jump on the 650b train and they shoehorned old geometry into the new wheel size so the first spec 650b rode like shit. Behind the curve in that they partnered with ohlins but put the shock to market before it was ready (it overheats). Behind the curve in that they are just now updating the enduro when it should have happened a few years ago to be competitive. Behind the curve in that until now the spec factory riders were on 29 inch enduros with the 27.5 link because the stock geometry sucked for racing"

They bring an unfinished product to market, people buy it. They use this as cash flow to actually refine the product to where it should have been in the first place. I gave a few recent examples above, if you want back further think about the e150 fork, it sucked ass and broke all the time. The bottom line is they bring things to market before they are ready, make consumers do the product testing and then later release an actual finished product. You pay to be their product testers, hence why they are a shit company. You can be a shit company in terms of ethics and conduct and still release a good bike when you actually refine it, spec in a nutshell.
  • + 1
 @poozank: No, I don't have memory loss. I tend to discount uneducated opinions in favor of facts though, and since your posts have included almost no facts, even less education, and tons of opinion, they got discarded.

I heard what you said, it's just that you are completely wrong.
  • + 1
 @TheRaven: Ive been citing sources and using only facts. Because you are unaware of someone does not make it untrue.
  • + 1
 @poozank: Oh boy...where to start. Ok first - brand marketing is not "facts", quoting it in your post is not "citing". If you want to claim otherwise, then i'm going to go right to the Specialized site and start quoting. Boy will you feel silly when faced with all those "facts".

Second, I should have been more clear when I said that your posts contained almost no facts. They did include some factual information. The problem is that you completely failed to illustrate how those facts support your claim. So really what I was getting at is that your posts have included almost no RELEVANT facts.

The bottom line here is that you are trying to convince us that your opinion is actually fact. On that, you have not been successful.
  • + 1
 @TheRaven: I don't have the crayons or the patience to explain this to you. Fortunately, I don't have to live with your crippling stupidity, that's your cross to bear.
  • + 1
 @poozank: When your argument fails, resort to personal insults. Classic strategy.

Oh and funny thing about stupidity - those who "live with it" tend to be pretty happy and confident. They also have no clue they are the stupid ones and generally just believe everyone else is stupid. Just sayin'.
  • + 3
 @mikekazimer I'm curious, was there any difference in suspension "feel" compared to 2016 models? More progressive? Supple? I know there was a small increase in travel (5-10mm), a change in bearings, and what looks like a slightly redesigned link/chain stay pivot placement. How do these small changes make or break the feel of the suspension?

I don't have complaints about the performance of the Enduro suspension, but I've always had trouble getting it to "feel" the way I want.
  • + 2
 I'm 6'2 ish rode 2015 in Large and it was too small. Can't decide between xl and l for the 2017, I like the reach on the xl but I dunno bike starts to get pretty long on the xl. The large has a longer wheel base now, but similar reach and super low stack.

Geo guru's what would you suggest for someone 6'1-6'2?
  • + 1
 I'm also 6'2". I demoed a 2015 XL, and tend to like long bikes, but the XL felt way too big for me. Felt really tall and unweildy. Hopefully the revised 2017 geometry will work better for people our size. I'm thinking the L is probably the way to go for the 2017.
  • + 3
 So they rebuild the linkage of the rear triangle in 2013 for beter performance when pedaling and now in 2017 the rear triangle looks the same as it was in 2012.
  • + 5
 Threaded BB!! The big S just surprised me in a good way.
  • + 1
 I'm curious why they spec'd a 51mm offset fork for the 650b? It doesn't seem long and slack enough to necessitate it. The Giant Reign has a longer reach and a slacker HTA, and they only chose a custom 46mm offset vs the usual 42mm. 9mm of extra offset is something you would notice. I worry that the steering would feel too light and twitchy.
  • + 1
 Is it me, or has anybody else noticed this?

Of the last 3 generations of (X-Wing...) Enduros, the only size frame that really photographs well / is easy on the eyes is the large.

Maybe it was most noticeable with the 2010-2012 XL, which was truly heinous (see pics here):

cdn.mos.bikeradar.imdserve.com/images/bikes-and-gear/bikes/mountain/1314788578822-k9vjeg9y50lp-700-80.jpg

But even the 2017 pics above I couldn't figure out why the bikes immediately struck me as... relatively un-sexy (ignoring the paint job).

And then I just saw the new PB feature on Curtis Keene's new 29er Enduro, and it DOES look sexy (ignoring the paint job) and well proportioned. And sure enough it's a large size.

It seems that the small or medium photo bikes in this article have that squashed looking rear X-wing section, where both the upper and lower section both bend down slightly which interrupts the visual flow, and makes that tiny X-wing section almost irrelevant.

Maybe Spec has no choice with the design constraints for each size frame, but it doesn't explain why they chose not to use sexier / more photogenic large size for the feature photos.

Here's some 26er porn for you:

www.amazon.com/clouddrive/share/0gKomexsg6KTcwkUpqqCqjC7ScxeHQhuhtaijv3wHhW?v=grid&ref_=cd_ph_share_link_copy
  • + 1
 Haha, funny you mention the 2010- 2012 XL. I have one and it is a tricky bird to take a decent pic of. BTW, what tyres are you running on your 26er?
  • + 1
 @headshot: The front is a folding 2.35 Magic Mary... running tubeless, whichever version is lightest and not the softest (TrailStar?).

The rear is a folding 2.4 Maxxis DHR 2 (3C EXO MaxTerra) that I found on eBay. interestingly, it is also the new Wide Track version, slightly re-shaped for wider rims. The last tire I would have thought a company would update is a 26".

But with the 29mm-30mm inner rim width, the profile is perfect (not too square edged), and the thing sticks like glue. It's been surprisingly durable considering how soft and sticky the knobs seem to be.

Next I'm wanting to try the DHF 2.5 on the front. The Magic Mary is good, if not one of the best all around front tires I've used, but the rear traction is so good that sometimes the front starts to go away first.

What have you been running?
  • + 1
 @DirtGuru2: I am on a 2.35 MM up front and 2.3 Minion DHR 2 out back. A great combo but on 23mm Flows they dont look as beefy as your set up. I need to try those new 29mm Flows...
  • + 1
 I noticed this as well on the 2017, although I thought the 2010-2012 and 2013-2016 mediums looked nice as well as the larges. For a nice looking 2017 650b, check out Jared Graves' facebook or instagram pages. He's rocking a large 650b and the x-wing frame isn't squashed like it is on the medium (which I agree looks weird and detracts from the look of the bike)
  • + 1
 I own a 2015 Enduro Carbon Expert 650b and have a slight itch for something different. So I've been combing through all of the new bikes and waiting for this update.

Things I care about: threaded BB, internal cable routing, well-needed update to geometry for 29er but 650b update is negligible, full carbon frame, Specialized badge is more stealth (cause they know they have haters), pricing didn't go up and with Specialized you can always get a shop to give you a discount.

Things that would prevent me from buying: Ohlins shock may be fancy but it's not yet proven and long-term maintenance is concerning (especially given the DB Inline disaster) and Big-S insists on flexy alloy proprietary wheels (I don't do carbon rims) not equipped for this style of riding.

If you are looking for one of these I'd suggest picking up a 2015/2016 at a massive discount and upgrade the wheels and suspension (Fox float x2, DB Air CS, etc.). Then you'd have money leftover to go to whistler instead of staring at a computer screen.
  • + 13
 Fuck the people who hold a grudge against Specialized for no good reason. They make damn good bikes. I really wouldn't worry about the Ohlins lol. Those boys know what's up, that's for sure.
  • + 5
 @Jack-McLovin: Ohlins hating crew and Spesh hating crew are two of the same kind!
  • - 2
 @Killrockstar: Because the ohlins overheats and loses rebound damping
  • + 2
 @poozank: Oh really? How many Ohlins shocks have you owned?
  • - 2
 @Killrockstar: its a known issue. You actually have to be going fast to overheat them which is probably why you haven't had any problems.
  • + 1
 @poozank: nice comeback, really exposes the ignorance of posters like yourself making comments now on two things you literally have no first hand experience in.
Way to lose all credibility in your comment and make yourself look like a typical bandwagon hater.

Well played mate, lol.
  • - 2
 @Killrockstar: the fact that you aren't aware of the rebound issue just shows that you are misinformed. It's not a band wagon thing, it's a real problem.
  • + 2
 @poozank: Sure mate, stay classy, I'll look forward to more of your reviews from products you haven't owned lol.
  • - 1
 @Killrockstar: most of the people I ride with have the ohlins. I ride the x2. I'm plenty familiar with it.

Just keep jamming you fingers in your ears and denying things you don't want to hear.
  • + 1
 @poozank: My mate dave says...... lol
  • + 3
 @poozank: I haven't had any problems with my TTX.
I wouldn't doubt Ohlins capability to make a shock. These guys know what they're doing better than anyone.
  • + 2
 @Jack-McLovin: Fact is, all air-shocks will lose rebound with heat, hence why some pro's will switch between coil and air dependant on tracks so that the shock behaviour remains consistant whether sponsored by Fox, Rockshox or whoever.

Like a typical bandwagon hater this guys has jumped on any reason to bash a product he has never used just because it is the popular thing to do.

Maybe he wants to be the Ohlins reincarnation of Protour, who knows....
  • + 1
 @Killrockstar: Talking about protour, I haven't seen him around in a while. Surprised he didn't come out his cave and pass on his godlike knowledge of how terrible the geometry is on the 2017 Enduro... Wink
  • + 1
 For my usage a DH-specific shock is in order for the Enduro. I'm almost 200lbs geared up and descents are 2000+ feet, rocky and rowdy. Running DB AIR CS on this bike has yielded some impressive results with durability to boot. It gets hot on big descents yet remains composed and the damping seems unaffected. I'd be willing to bet that if more racers could choose their shock based on performance (and not sponsorship) that we would see more of the DB Air. As far as the new Ohlins air shock, I'd rather you guys be the testers for the first generation! Smile

On another note I had a chance to actually see the base model alloy 2017 in-person today. It looks really good with stealth cables and the linkage is noticeably beefier. I wouldn't say it's enough to justify me selling my 2015 to upgrade into but a nice improvement.
  • + 0
 @ryan83:
The Ohlins shock is questionably the best on the market, and probably always will be, simply due to their vast experience in making the best shocks for motorbikes and cars etc.
  • + 4
 125mm dropper post on an xl is not that good, many brand have a 170mm option nowadays
  • + 2
 Reach increased by 5mm... I guess they didn't take the criticism that the Enduro is cramped ASF. Good improvement to the stack height though. But Basically everyone over 6' back to the XL.
  • + 1
 So the BB squeak is from the bearings? But we have real life experiences saying that plastic press in cups didn't squeak but switching to metal did. How are those threaded cups held in place on these new bikes? How come they are so good at engineering bells and whistles but can't deal with a BB?
  • + 1
 You're overestimating the 'good at engineering' part when it comes to bike companies compared to other engineering industries. Press-fit BB should indeed never have been a thing.
  • + 1
 Anyone gotten on an XL? Im 6'2 and had a Large Stumpy and thought it fit too small so Im looking at sizing up to XL when I get on this but not 100% if thats the right choice so just wondering if anyone has had experience with that?
  • + 4
 Considering 29" wheels are becoming a standard everywhere, now we "need" some 31" or even bigger wheels on XC bikes.
  • + 5
 Well let me just say...meh.
  • + 3
 I agree, I don't think its a thing of beauty
  • + 5
 "good-old-fashioned threaded bottom bracket" no shit
  • + 1
 The thing I don't get is during the last few years of constant spec changes (e.g., wheel size, axle, 1x) the only consistently well received spec/standard (at least by the various pundits) has been metric shocks. Here we have one of the bellwether bikes of the industry which completely ignores the one standard that really has the potential to make life quantifiably better on a full suspension bike not only in terms of ride experience but bike maintenance/upgrade as well.
  • + 3
 It may be effective at what it does, but its not a pretty bike,in my eyes anyway.
  • + 1
 I love the braaahs on here treating geometry objectively.

Braaah, your too-high-BB is someone else's, "OMG, this bike feels awesome!"

Shall we argue about what is the "correct" color to buy, too?
  • + 4
 All these big 29 bikes are gna want more than 160 forks eventually
  • + 2
 Just ask Curtis Keene
  • + 2
 Man, I'm looking forward to this neon paint scheme fad dieing a second death. Yeah, I'm looking at you, Specialized and Santa Cruz....
  • + 3
 I have a 2015 s works. I run a offset bushing. Lowers and slackens. So I guess it's a 17 now!
  • + 4
 Looks like it. I guess a lot of Enduro owners will be happy that they don't have the pressure to really have to upgrade!
  • + 4
 A Big S thank you for making the Enduro in size S... finally!
  • + 5
 I think a small frame with 165mm rear travel + 29inch wheels turns your butt into a radial brake in tech sections.
  • + 1
 @SickEdit: Haha yup, a rub once a while to keep things sane.
  • + 1
 I love the clean look and the bit of 'protection' internal routing of the cables/hoses gives. But if I wanted to change the brakes to Magura, it just makes it a bit more difficult :-(
  • + 3
 Why did the Big S go Boost? So many non-compatible "standard" opportunities wasted.
  • + 3
 523mm seat tube on the XL! I'm out :-(
  • + 2
 The BB is still high and the top tubes are still short compared to a lot of the new bikes coming out.
  • + 10
 I've noticed that the BB heights on a lot of new enduro race bikes aren't as low on trail bikes - I think the greater clearance helps when racing on natural trails with minimal practice time.
  • + 0
 35,2 That s so 2010 Big Grin
  • + 4
 @threehats: Also, these enduro race bikes usually tout more travel. So at full compression, the BB gets quite low. Able to get away with lower BB drops on trail bikes with relatively shorter travel.
  • + 6
 @threehats: Rude's crash at Aspen EWS was a pedal strike. No one knows for sure, but people think Will Olson's death at Crested Butte BME last year was due to a pedal strike. I had a pedal strike crash during a stage myself. Courses aren't always mowed and rocks aren't marked like a DH track. That's enough for me that low-BBs are not the best for racing.
  • + 0
 I agree, BB too high. They should have put adjustable shock mount positions so the rider could choose.
  • + 8
 I think low BB's suck- I really hate pedal/crank strikes. Just my opinion- to each their own.
  • + 1
 Looks like people may still be buying up the 650 yoke to drop their 29er BB?
  • + 1
 @rickmheim: thats what I have on my current E29. Wonder if you can do that to this version as well? ~65 HTA and 330mm BB; perfect geometry
  • + 2
 @dthomp325: I've been on a BB height journey over the last few years. From my Soul which sat at 334mm sagged, to my Spitfire which adjusts between 307 and 319mm and my Zero AM at 294mm. On more groomed trails, when it's steep or when it's slippery the lower BB wins. Add roots and rocks, racing unfamiliar trails or a lack of gravity assistance and then a bit more clearance helps. I had 175mm cranks on all three bikes to start with, moved to 170 on the Spitfire and 165 on the Zero.

I now ride the Spitfire in the higher/steeper setting on the local singletrack, saving lower/slacker for steeper trails.

The Zero AM is about to have its 130mm Pike taken out to 140 and its -2 deg ZS56 headset replaced with a -.5 deg EC56, raising the BB to 303mm sagged.

For a full-sus bike where geometry adjustment is relatively easy through a flip chip or alternate shock mount position I think being able to tweak your bike for how and where you ride is really valuable. Kudos for Banshee for doing it on most of their range.
  • + 1
 deleted duplicate
  • + 1
 First Specialized I have ever wanted (29 version)
Maybe if I hacksawed the Xwing bit out and resprayed it no one would know I got lured by big S.
  • + 3
 looks like not much stand over height
  • + 1
 Ohhh great here we go with the bike market knocking on all our doors letting us know a new tire size standard is coming soon... Weak'
  • + 2
 Please tell me they did away with the stupid shock mount that threaded directly into the shock body??
  • - 1
 I had a '14 E29. This is what that bike SHOULD have been. They're just late with the updates, and still not current. Now they're trying to lead from the rear. Still to steep in the HA, still too slack in the SA, too short in the reach, too linear in the suspension (looking like it hasn't changed), still has a stupid link that does weird things with the shock and prevents aftermarket options...and a seatpost shim to run a long-outdated dropper post size on a $3500 frame???

Not above buying a Specialized, but this is pretty half-assed with the kind of engineering resource they have available. Kind of seems like someone kept changing their mind on it since this was one of the last Specialized bikes to be released this year and this is what they came up with.
  • + 1
 So if you're on a budget (or prefer your enduro in aluminium), better buy a 2016 comp before they downgrade the fork from pike to yari.
  • + 1
 Maybe someone can explain this... thought boost required the wide set bb that prss fit gives? do you just need wider q-factor cranks for the threaded/boost combo?
  • + 2
 The photoshop fake looked better! Still stoked on this bike!
  • + 1
 the 650b version looks nice.
One by only? No tabs for chain guide?
No front derailuer mount.?
Bummer.
  • + 1
 Why does the Specialized website state 160 mm front and back for the 29er, but every review says it has 165mm rear travel?
  • + 2
 This my next bike new enduro))) Nice)))
  • + 2
 The improvements are just what they needed........
  • + 2
 That BB is pretty high, no? Rest of the 29er Geo looks pretty dialed.
  • + 4
 Better for climbing and flatter trails. It's a trade-off at any height.
  • + 1
 I've waited months for that, I'm going back to sleep... Shop can still swipe my card on this bike though.
  • + 1
 Looks sweet. just not a fan of the swat compartment. To each their own, though...
  • + 1
 Why would you get a carbon frame to store stuff in it, making it heavy again?
  • + 1
 Because then you don't need to carry it on you back.
  • + 2
 who wants to argu about tire size
  • + 2
 Xxl pls
  • + 1
 Yea that TT and reach is short for a XL bike.
  • + 7
 @Pauloquincer: you realize the reach is between head tube and bottom bracket, right?
  • + 2
 I'm so stoked right now!
  • + 1
 SCREW YOUR XC AND YOUR 650B !!!!!!
  • + 1
 Threaded BB, yes yes and you!!!!
  • + 1
 Internally routed hydraulic brake hose, that sounds fun.
  • + 2
 Looks beautiful
  • + 2
 Nice nice nice
  • + 1
 I thought the Carbon and s works would be one side like the Demo. Shame.
  • + 0
 It is a bit. There must be a reason for it though.
  • + 5
 I wanted them too keep the iconic frame design personally
  • + 1
 Why is the XL so short?????
  • + 1
 Proprietary shock mount still, or no?
  • + 2
 Proprietary shock mount? Check!
Gladly, it sure looks like it is still proprietary.

Only, for the version with Vivid Coil (I assume for Curtis, because he has been riding on a Vivid Coil and our BikeYoke for the past few months), it looks like they prototyped a Yoke in our BikeYoke style.
I´d be happy for you guys (not so much for us ;-)), if they brought it for series in this style.
But it would make us kinda proud...
  • + 1
 Why? Why? I feel like it's completely unnecessary. Is there a benefit to the rider in any way?
  • + 1
 Why isn't the pro-carbon available in a 29er though? Only 650B.
  • + 0
 They need to bring out a better spec Alu model. Only offering the basic one is a shame when you dont want carbon.
  • + 0
 No metric shocks! Not really future proof to release a new model with an old "standard"!
  • + 2
 Looks like an enduro Smile
  • + 0
 the full carbon (about time specialized!!!) 650b is a weapon ,might just end up the best allrounder you can buy
  • + 1
 'does it come in black'
  • + 0
 Is there any way to put a Front Derailleur on it ?
  • + 1
 Nope. 1X only. Stumpjumper if you want 2X
  • - 1
 Buy a Knolly Warden Carbon
  • + 0
 264Life!
  • - 2
 It was so good to have 2016 Enduro 650b knowing it was the the latest version. The dream is over!!! Thanks Spz!!!
  • - 1
 I wonder what people are going to be stashing in that SWAT downtube
  • - 1
 mmm.. yeeesss... I always hang my bike in the rafters of a hipster barn.
  • - 3
 Visit the high-res gallery for more images from this article. Really PB its not that cool. Its still a mass produced off the shelf bike.
  • + 0
 27.5 for life
  • - 1
 True bro, I ride a 27.5 dh bike and first thing I noticed from switching was how much better it rolled. Especially through tight switch backs where I can now focus more on body position and pumping, rather than pedalling.
  • - 3
 Personally I don't care for that new cable routing, think it's ugly
Below threshold threads are hidden

Post a Comment



Copyright © 2000 - 2019. Pinkbike.com. All rights reserved.
dv65 0.170126
Mobile Version of Website