5 Surprisingly Nice Catalogue Frames - Taipei Cycle Show 2018

Nov 3, 2018
by Brian Park  



Catalogue frames, "open model" bikes that are bought by 3rd party companies to brand and re-sell, get a bad rap. And rightfully so—they often have dated geometry, afterthought kinematics, and crappy hardware. In an industry as fickle and fast paced as ours, the difference between a progressive trail weapon and a laughable paperweight is a few degrees here, a few mm there, and a new standard that got introduced after production started.

That said, we saw some nice looking catalogue frames while walking the floors of this year's Taipei Cycle Show. With a tweak or two and some fresh branding, some of these bikes could be pretty good—assuming the suspension design is workable and the construction is decent.

Which would you choose if you were starting up a bike company? What would you change?






1. Agogo Bike Company FM-M06

Travel: 100mm
Wheel size: 29"
Sizes: 17", 17.5", 19", 20"
Weight: 2050g (±50g) - size 17"
Details: 31.6 seatpost, tapered headtube, BSA73 BB, 12*148 dropouts

This clean looking XC frame is a single pivot design and has internal cable and brake routing. No geometry or pricing was available, but we'll update if they send it as promised.

The one-piece rear triangle is kinda sorta a flex-stay, I think. Anyone?
The interrupted seat-tube hides the link.







2. Mosso 991TI-DB3

Material: Titanium
Wheel size: 27.5" or 29"
Sizes: 17", 19", 21"
Details: 31.6 seatpost, 44/55mm headtube, thru-axle, 68mm BB

Mosso is the house brand for Woeifong Machinery Co., and they generally make alloy bikes—including a 1300g 29er hardtail frame. It wasn't totally clear to me if they manufacture this ti frame in-house, but their motto is "probably the best," so who am I to question? It has nice details like internal cable routing and is available in 27.5 or 29er versions.


Titanium retrogrouches always want bottle openers on their dropouts (and pedals, and stem caps, and bar-ends, and bathrobes), but this looks fine to me.
Pre-routed internal housing will help the assembly plant.







3. Edge Python One 29er Boost

Travel: 100mm
Wheel size: 29"
Sizes: S/M/L/XL
Weight: 1950g (±50g)
Details: 34.9 seatpost, 48/57 headtube, BB92, 12*148 dropouts
Price: $550 USD if you can arrange shipment from China; MOQ TBD
Geometry: 68.5° HTA, 74.6° STA, 438mm RC, 413-488mm Reach, 36mm BBD

Edge had several vaguely familiar-looking carbon frames on display. This flex-stay XC whip is available in a Metric trunnion mount version or a "Legacy" standard mount version.


The beefy downtube junction looks plenty stiff.
Internal brake routing.






4. Maxway Y16M04

Travel: ??
Wheel size: ??
Sizes: ??
Weight: ??
Details: ??

Maxway wouldn't provide much info on this eye-searing frame, but they said could accommodate a wide range of geometry requests. Having manufactured for Surly as well as several well known MTB and dirt jump brands, their construction is well regarded but expensive.

Head badges are somewhere else in the show. What would yours look like?
Utilitarian cable management.

Lets maybe workshop this name a bit more.
There are several options for dropouts, but I wasn't allowed to photograph them.






5. Pro.Mance VPP3

Travel: 160mm
Wheel size: ??
Sizes: 17", 19"
Weight: ??
Details: Max tire 2.8", 1.5" headtube, 12*148 dropouts, available in gloss, matte, and custom paint
Geometry: 65° HTA, 74° STA, 430mm RC, 430-455mm Reach

The best brand name on the list, Pro.Mance has a 4000 square meter plan in Xiamen, China and claims to always surpass the ISO safety standards for bicycles by 20%. The VPP3 all mountain frame looked awesome, but I was baffled by the apparent lack of main pivot and link. They reluctantly procured a brochure for the bike, and althugh it didn't tell me more about the suspension, it did have another manufacturer's name on the brochure. Am I being bamboozled? Is a middleman trying to rebrand another company's frame as their own open model frame? Is this a dream and my dreams are a reality?

Nice hardware and pre-routed internal cables.

This part of the suspension system made sense...
This part did not. The suspension didn't move and there was nothing behind this pivot.



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141 Comments

  • + 64
 Who reckons I could get that last frame and get away with people thinking its a Santa Cruz?
  • + 189
 Gotta paint it to match a hearing aid or a prosthetic and you might be on to something.
  • + 7
 That Bromance frame looks good though.
  • - 185
flag Foes2001 (Nov 3, 2018 at 12:15) (Below Threshold)
 @Ride406orDie: ur a idiot ! Dissing dissabled people..... Mmm way to go champ
  • + 95
 @Foes2001: Thnik he's dissing Santa Cruz colorways, ya curnutt!
  • + 18
 Nah, just brand it yourself and tell people you own the company.
  • + 0
 ..slap asticker on it and paint it in an utter colour ...there you have it Big Grin
  • + 5
 I'd Say Closer look to the New SB Yeti's but yeaa Super Sweet!
  • - 3
 @SRAMIX29: no ...it is still "a sticker" Wink
  • - 5
flag H3RESQ (Nov 3, 2018 at 21:04) (Below Threshold)
 Only if everyone else has as bad an eye on frames as you. Besides the word VPP in name it doesn't look Santa at all. Square angles, split top tube, and on and on... and on.. i could go about the differences.
  • + 8
 cunta sruz
  • + 3
 @Foes2001: Did you take a wrong turn on your way to Tumblr? Gimp.
  • + 3
 @Ride406orDie: lol - that comment wins the internet today - lol
  • + 2
 @Foes2001: holy shit bud, dumb in the morning, dumb all day!
  • + 41
 Glad to see Pinkbike covering these affordable and high-quality factory frames! In the last year these models have really progressed. I have owned 10 different models over the last 2 years, because I can afford it.

As an owner of the Edge frame (Pro-Mance model M7007 II) above, and having bought it for $550, I can tell you it is a blast on the trail. It works just as well as any Scott Spark I have ever demoed. I built it up at 21 lbs, and raced it with success in XC. The geo is quite similar to the Scott Spark, but with a few minor differences which make it lean a tad more towards a playful and nimble trail build.

Pro-Mance is great to work with, they reply within hours of any email, they are willing to work a deal, and you're guaranteed to get within 25% of the cost of manufacturing. Shipping is fast, generally 5-10 days. Custom painting is top-notch, or just keep it matte black.
  • + 12
 nice to know
  • + 13
 good to get an owner opinion , cheers
  • + 2
 with that 69* HTA a pre-2012 Scott Spark maybe
  • + 16
 That's a new frame every two and a half months. You must really like them.
  • + 9
 @dubod22: that or they brake alot...........
  • - 4
flag davec113 (Nov 4, 2018 at 7:05) (Below Threshold)
 10 bikes in 2 years. You spend more time building and dialing-in than riding apparently. Those 10 bikes could have been 1 decent bike with modern suspension and geometry, which you'd actually have enough time on to adjust and ride it properly. That would also save the world from the massive amount of disposable goods being produced these days. And +26 right now! ...must be the bots hired to upvote positives and downvote negative comments here because I just can't see the upside of this ridiculousness.
  • - 1
 @davec113: Future or current politician? Trying to figure out your outrage on how someone else spends his time and money.
  • - 3
 @TheR: Outrage? Not quite. More like incredulity or bewilderment. You can look up the definitions of those words yourself. But since the Big T got into office that's a daily occurrence. Humans are incredibly stupid and your comment is more evidence.
  • + 20
 Big deal. I’ve personally owned 30 bikes in the last 2 years. I like to build them up because I have so much money. When I think about people who have only had 20 bikes in the last 2 years, I think to myself, “they must really be poor,”
  • + 1
 @grundletroll: Yeah, that was my subtle way of saying it.
  • + 1
 @davec113: Yeah man. If only you were running the world, right? GTFO.
  • + 2
 @dubod22: I get to try out everything! $250-$600/frame isn't too bad, as long as the geometry makes sense and I trust the manufacturer. I've had 29 hardtail, 29 full sus, 27.5 singlespeed, 26x5.05 fat, 27.5x3.8 skinny fat, full sus fat (not recommended), 29+ bikepacking, and 700C gravel rigs. I transfer the components for the most part and sell the frames when I'm done.
  • + 2
 @grundletroll: I only had one warranty issue, on an ICAN SN04 full-suspension fat frame. I ran a 26x4.8" tire (too wide) and cracked the chain stay on a flat drop. ICAN replaced immediately with 2 chainstays for free, painted to match my old frame.

No other issues on any other frame I've had. I nearly have a collective 5,000 miles on these frames.
  • + 1
 @zdebruine - Brilliant thread, super interesting. This could be the way I get the sort of frame I could only dream of. Most of the catalogue frames I've found are XC. Where can I find an up-to-date carbon enduro 29er frame with 150-160mm travel, 148x12 boost rear end and around 65 degrees head angle?
  • + 1
 @oldmanonabike:

alchemybicycles.com/arktos29

but again, what you’re generally getting from these suppliers is about 6 - 8 years/two generations behind all the brand name manufacturers. They either copy or get the molds from something that was discontinued. They are not selling current design geometry.

.
  • + 14
 You've got it all wrong, @brianpark - that Pro.Mance "VPP3" isn't full suspension. It's an interchangeable rigid rear triangle! Think of it like a Bell Super 3R, but for your frame: just strap the longer chainstay-ed version to your enduro pack and swap it out before the descent.

But that Agogo is super slick. Reminds me of a Propain Hugene. What's a designer like that doing on open-mold frames? I'd love to see whose logos that model ends up under.
  • - 2
 Nahh, the missing bottom pivot will appear when it cracks and rips that part and will be held by carbon senews ! SUPRISE !
  • + 16
 This only makes me more appreciative of locally made bikes made by actual cycling enthusiasts.
  • + 15
 Marzocchi called....they want their M back Mosso..
  • + 10
 "...claims to always surpass the ISO safety standards for bicycles by 20%" - this still is not something I would be proud of. Looking into ISO bike standards myself as an engineer - they are more like a lower limits to make a bike that is safely rideable.
They certainly are NOT sufficient standards for a mountain bike for hard ripping. Companies have their own standards for something like this. At least twice or more of what ISO standards say would be nice - at least as I recall them and without any calculations.
  • + 9
 There is far less voodoo in composite manufacturing than alot of people think, especially now that the industry has standardized many processes.. Average joe's really win with these overseas manufacturers. Not everyone has 10k to drop on an SC, Yeti, etc.
  • - 7
flag austinTRON (Nov 3, 2018 at 14:59) (Below Threshold)
 what SC or Yeti frame costs 10k? The frame in the picture doesn't even appear to come with a shock.
  • + 6
 @austinTRON: He means final build. These frames added with a top teir build and they still fall under 5K. Unlike some companies where youre pushing high 8 or 9.
  • + 3
 @chillrider199: well again, the other aspect is that what you’re really buying is the equivalent of a NOS frame from two generations ago. I don’t have so much an issue with the composite quality. Afterall, even name-brand frames have warranty claims. The general issue I kept coming back to in my search is outdated geometry in general and the lack of range. You’re paying the high end frame prices for the latest and greatest in both suspension design and geometry trends. These no-name suppliers generally only offer three types as well; hardtail, 100mm XC, or 150mm DH.

There’s no mid-range offering for someone looking for a bike that is capable of both. Being older theory designs they also tend to have deficiencies in capability. On that 150mm dh frame you better have a shock lockout or it’s going to bob like a mofo if you do any pedaling on it, but it will be fine as a general go out and have fun bike. Same for the XC; it will be light and get the job done in the flat land stuff, but if the going gets a little rough or more it simply usn’t going to keep up with the latest and greatest; Striker, SB100, and such.

So the way I see it as previously alluded to; consider the cost to be equivalent to a used frame from several generations ago, except that it’s new rather than used. It’s not really a great value in the sense that you’re just getting what you’re paying for. No surprise really; because they’re manufacturers, not designers.
  • - 1
 @TheUnknownMTBR: The main thing is they can design&manufacture a frame,but I never saw a Chinese guy on a bike ridding trails all day long...I think that is the main problem,they are not true riders,most of the workers involved there knows nothing about trail/enduro/XC/DH riding...Any person involved&interested in MTB for a few years have a clear vision of what people do/want in a bike...Maybe in the future more and more Chinese people would like to ride MTB bikes but for now I think they are interested in the money but not in ridding bikes.So to me,the chance of any Chinese company to build a bike by themselves with improved geometries or innovative suspension design is very low. Is the same thing for tons of tech Chinese stuff only work in China cos only them use it or are interested. They know how to build a bike but not what we do with it 100%.
  • + 2
 @homerjm: Have you ever been to China?? How can you say something like that??Your screen name fits you perfectly Big Grin
flowmountainbike.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/China-DH-race-7780.jpg
  • + 1
 @themountain: yes I been in China a few times...and have some good friends living there for years there. What I´m saying is not so rare or hard to figure...
  • + 1
 @homerjm: Well...you have to get your as outside of Shanghai or Beijing sometimes...the chinese MTB scene is live and kickin!
  • + 9
 The first one was nice and then it went downhill from there. Catalogue frames are sweet. After they have been branded they are the ones that get funniest texts on them. “Ultra high modulus technology”, “carbon monocoque case system” “multibar instant suspension action”
  • + 15
 „future shock rear“
  • + 2
 or "fact carbon" or "hmf carbon" or "ballistec carbon"? Smile
  • + 8
 Number 1 is 130 mm travel, 67 degree headtube, 165 x 45 trunnion, ~75.25 effective seattube angle in size medium (70 actual), 440 reach medium, 95 mm headtube, 440 chainstays, 180 mm post mount, 148 x 12 rear, threaded bb. I have one. It is roughly $550 plus shipping. It is awesome.

The edge python is something promance reworked to use a larger headtube and heavier layup. I had the original, and it didn’t last long. It was nice and stiff while it lasted.
  • + 6
 Got pics of #1? Keen to see built up
  • + 3
 Hi, What length is the seat tube on your medium?
And a picture of the build would be great to see Smile
  • + 9
 Promance VPP-3 has been branded by DaBomb and sold as ADV-275 for a while now.
  • + 1
 @irck: how does it pivot?
  • + 2
 @hamncheez: There is a hidden linkage behind teh rear triangle
  • + 6
 @Stanley-w: - The DaBomb seems legit and the same frame, so why would the writer, Brian Park who had the frame in front of him, say "there was nothing behind this pivot"? when apparently it's just hidden depending on the camera angle. Seems crappy not taking a couple minutes to look closer at the frame to see how it works than just writing that comment. Unless you're just trying to scare people off of these catalogue frames...
  • + 3
 @hamncheez: no idea. I can’t imagine how they could hide a link in there, especially considering the lack of clearance and that there doesn’t appear to be an extra set of pivot bolts to secure it. It’s like they forgot to include the lower VPP link altogether.
  • + 4
 @trillot: there’s for sure something I was missing there. They weren’t keen on me messing around with it. I’m sure it works.
  • + 2
 @brianpark: looks alot like a yeti (pre switch infinity) setup perhaps, an eccentric bearing acting as a short lower link?
  • + 9
 I'd rather buy a guerilla gravity frame
  • + 1
 For sure!
  • + 4
 Nice to see Mosso again - had dealings with Woei Fong 15-20 years ago when I was trying to establish contacts in the Taiwanese factories. Nice helpful folks, despite the occasional language barrier! Smile My first two DH bikes came from them - sadly not got any decent photos of the 2nd as it was a masterpiece - bit long maybe (or maybe just ahead of it's time, haha!) but with a couple of mods proved to be fully raceable - still holds my fastest time down Fort William... chainless...! Big Grin Both bikes always got lots of attention at the races/trails as they were so rare in the UK.

And the welds on that Ti frame are amazing!
  • + 1
 Mosso is absolutely HUGE in China, It's still one of the most popular entry level brand for people who want a custom XC bike. And I have vivid memory of the MOSSO DH bike you have mentioned. When DH scene has just started in China and I was still a pre-teen boy I watched a TV program about DH bikers in China and several of the guys were riding Mosso. Sadly mosso became largely irrelavent in full-suss scene since late 2000s. My friend had a Mosso XC build weighted at 7.8kg, and it was back in 2011!
  • + 4
 The guy holding the frame is John and he is a great guy with friends at all the "big USA frame brands".
Or maybe his name is Jason or Bobby or Garry.
Either way he is happy to help. And will be happy to give you 100% best price.

The Chinese/Taiwanese bicycle industry is best described as incestuous. With 3 or 4 different companies claiming to own the factory. I have toured a factory with company A one day. Then the next day, been picked up from my hotel, and toured the exact same factory owned by company B.
I will say though, most are pretty descent, and opens your eyes as you see many famous brands being manufactured side by side.
  • + 5
 Using a generic carbon open mould frame as my xc bike, its spot on and to get the same weight of frame from a known brand would of cost 5 times as much. Shipped from taiwan via amazon.
  • + 3
 I have 3 Open Mould Frames. A road bike, a fat bike and a hard tail XC 29er. And one Chinese Carbon fatbike wheelset. All have been AMAZING. I still own a RM Thunderbolt as I just don't trust the suspension kinematics of these open mould frames. Have recommended them to a number of friends and they have nothing but positive things to say. Buyer beware. Research the good selllers as there are more bad resellers than there are good.
  • + 1
 What company did you get your fatbike from ?
  • + 7
 Of course, talk about generics and don’t mention any specific manufacturers. Thanks. About as useful as saying some chemicals cause cancer but others don’t. Research before you ingest.
  • + 4
 Anyone watch that : I went to China and started a bike company.
These frames are beautiful.
The big cost is quality control.
  • + 1
 Is it normal for a 100 mm travel bike to have only 3 pivots and rely on frame flex? Or only be able to insert the seat post to the depth of the top tube? I pay no attention to xc bikes, so maybe it’s ok, but that Python frame hurts my brain.
  • + 5
 I tried to get some info on the Agogo but their lips were sealed.
  • + 1
 Looks like a nice frame, but I wouldn't go head over heels over it.
  • + 1
 Those carbon frames are quite impressive. I like the looks and the suspension layout, but I’d be afraid of one snapping on me Eek a buddy of mine bought an open mold frame that resembled a Scott Spark. Looked good but within a few years it developed a crack around the lower headset cup. It was only a matter of time before that headtube split and you would have a catastrophic crash
  • + 15
 so you're saying it was in all ways, the same as a scott spark?
  • + 3
 @spaceofades: I smell some sarcasm, but it's the same material (Toray 800/Toray 1000), similar geometry, made in the same factory by the same workers, and comes with a 2-year warranty.

I personally know 8 riders with the frame beeboo is likely talking about, and none of them had an issue. Not to say it can't happen, but no bike is eternal.
  • + 1
 I've had two Santa Cruz carbon frames that cracked in the chainstay(and some alloy frames of known names) in less than a year, so I wouldn't shat on that frame because of your buddies little issue...it can happen to any frame
  • + 5
 The welds at the head tube of the Ti frame... Drool Drool Drool
  • + 2
 LOL Mosso's Google results yields "MOSSO Bikes | PROBABLY THE BEST - MOSSO Bisiklet". Not sure if it's the same company but couldn't help laugh at their uncertainty of brand quality.
  • + 6
 Try to read the article next time
  • + 4
 Whatever you are drinking over there in Asia I want some. Makes a 4 look like an 8 in the middle of the day. Strong brew.
  • + 1
 Brilliant thread, super interesting. This could be the way I get the sort of frame I could only dream of. Most of the catalogue frames I've found are XC. Where can I find an up-to-date carbon enduro 29er frame with 150-160mm travel, 148x12 boost rear end and around 65 degrees head angle?
  • + 3
 There's a guy that won big xc events on an open model.... ....cann't be so bad
  • + 2
 Jose Cofre Cullell (I believe was his name) won 2nd in UCI XCO World Cup this year in U29 on a Megamo (Spanish brand) 29er which was just a rebranded version of the Edge frame.
  • + 0
 I will never buy a bike that doesn't have a standard threading bb. Even hope pressfit bbs start creaking after 6 months. My threadfit Chris king is still going strong after 10 years on the same bearings, just new grease every year.
  • + 1
 Glad to see coverages on Chinese/Taiwanese brands. They may not be very famous but they sure have some great products. Mosso is a brand many Chinese riders are familiar with, also where many of them started their MTB from.
  • + 3
 How does the seatpost fit in the Edge Python frame? Looks like 6cm of depth before it changes direction!
  • + 1
 Yep came here the day the same
  • + 2
 Xc travel so will probably just have a solid seat post jammed I’m sticking out 12” who knows though this is a right jumble of mysterious frames
  • + 3
 @Bigwill13: They're showing an XS frame there. I have a large frame and use a 400mm seatpost, run it with a huge chunk inserted, no problems. Likely not going to fit a long-travel dropper but that's not the purpose anyway.
  • + 1
 Big manufacters are going too up their game, as the actual manufacters in China now know more about designing and building quality bike than all big bike companies combined?
  • + 1
 Taiwan (roc) is the home of the best of the best bike Manufacturing plants, has been for a long time. Mainland Chinas tech is not far behind. Who made your 'branded' bike??
  • + 1
 @lifted-d: Dont know who accually built it?
  • + 1
 @aljoburr: Exactly! Its a lot of smoke and mirrors. One of the reasons I like Giant is they build their own stuff (plus bikes for many others) it really helps for their internal QC systems. there are some other great contract bike builders for sure but i don't like not knowing who is making my toys!!
  • + 1
 @lifted-d: Well can always build your own!
  • + 2
 Can we all chip in $100 and see if Mike Levy could really run a bike company?
  • + 2
 I like the shapes on #1, just add another pivot on the chainstay and I'd ride it.
  • + 1
 Why would the rear end of that Agogo appear to be a flex stay? The rear triangle has pivots at two points. What am I not seeing?
  • + 3
 You're not seeing the exact path of the rocker link, which likely puts a bit of flex and stress on the rear triangle.
  • + 3
 All Hail Open Mould Frames!
  • + 3
 WTF with internal brake routing?!
  • + 2
 How many times have you actually changed your rear brake line?
  • + 13
 @Poulsbojohnny: not that often. But I do take the rear triangle off often enough to for cleaning that internally routed brake lines or anything else for that matter is a major pain in the ass. Internal routing is pure vanity, those who work and maintain their bikes hate them for a reason.
  • + 0
 @freestyIAM: I maintain and work on my bikes and don't have any issues with them...
  • + 1
 @clink83: Fair point, but I work on my own stuff as well and don't consider it a big deal. Plus, if the internal routing bothers you that much, you can always exit the line at the BB and zip tie it to the outside of the frame.
  • + 0
 @Poulsbojohnny: how often do you swap brakes? I do and I want to be easy and fast process.
  • + 3
 The Mosso looks legit, wonder what the pricing will be?
  • + 0
 The same people who make these also make your favourite brand's carbon bike. The only difference is marketing/branding/hype and a North American/European salesperson who speaks with the same accent as you.
  • + 5
 And actual quality control, more expensive resin, warranty, more expensive pivot hardware...
  • + 4
 One other difference; usually a model or two behind on geometry and such. No surprise when you either copy the frame that somebody else discontinued or offer it for sale after the main contractor discontinued having them build it.

Link above for Pro-mance is a good example ...
  • + 1
 @hamncheez: Aaah...thats why the brand companies like Canyon have still so many issues, right?
  • + 2
 @themountain: YOu think an unbranded chinese carbon manufacturer would even bother to do a recall if a manufacturing defect was found?
  • + 0
 @hamncheez: I think this so called unbranded manufacturers are way easier to deal with in case of a flaw ...and lets not forget : This frames a a fraction of what you pay for "brand" ones Wink
  • + 1
 probable all made in the "Far Eastern Group" factory the same has most the carbon bikes on the market.
  • + 1
 I contacted Edge for a price on a python...they want $1699 not $550.
  • + 2
 Give me that Ti hardtail
  • + 1
 Will be looking for them on eBay coming soon.
  • + 1
 Is the 'Edge' above the reason that Enve couldn't use that name anymore?
  • + 0
 The interrupted seat-tube ... Show stopper for me... Frown
  • - 1
 How can someone produce something like the mance vpp ?
It's like building a car and forget engine
  • + 1
 why?
  • + 1
 Pro mance vpp. Damn.
  • - 1
 Maxway looks like a session
  • - 3
 Looks like a shit'un
  • - 1
 still seems a little sketchy to buy those frames
  • + 4
 @brianpark Why are they so secretive or unwilling to answer questions about geometry, price, manufacturing, etc? After all, they are at a trade show to sell products.
  • + 5
 @kwapik: would you give trade prices and details out to a journalist to share to the public?
  • + 4
 why's that? If you ride a Far East made frame who do you think will have made it?

The factories offer open source stuff to companies that just want to rebrand and to show off their capabilities.
  • + 1
 @kwapik: Because companies that buy their frames can request to have geometries tweaked, and slight design changes (like a different dropout and axle standard). Doing this would obviously change the price, so I would assume they didn't want to give out a price or any specs due to the fact that those could all change depending on what a company wants.
  • + 2
 There’s a forum for that, learn from others experience

chinertown.com


There are decent frames out there, but at least for MTB usually one if not two models behind the main companies wrt geometry
  • + 1
 @kwapik: They did not manufacturer it, so dont know anything about it, not so easy too change mold angles
  • - 3
 the pro mance looks like a direct rip from santa cruz or yeti tbh.
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