Fox Prototype Inverted DH fork - World Exclusive

May 30, 2011 at 1:09
May 30, 2011
by Mike Levy  
 
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Gee Atherton did an early morning practice run at the US Open with this prototype inverted Fox fork bolted to the front of his Commencal. While Fox was tight lipped about the fork, being sure to emphasize that it is still quite a ways from being a production unit (<i>if ever</i>), they were kind enough to share some interesting information with us.<br><br>- While the fork is currently without a name, it is part of Fox's Racing Application Development (<i>RAD</i>) program that, as the name suggests, consists of products developed specifically for competition. There are about 15 different projects that currently fall under the RAD program umbrella .<br><br>- Fox is keeping mum on whether or not they plan to produce an inverted fork for the public, but Pinkbike is willing to say that that must surely be the goal down the road.<br><br>- Fox has actually been testing an inverted chassis for well over a year now, possibly much longer than that even.<br><br>- Word from Fox is that there are perhaps a dozen examples of this prototype inverted fork currently in different stages of testing<br><br>- Fox is evaluating many different spring combinations, including both air and coil, as well as a coil sprung and air assisted unit.<br><br>- They were not willing to comment on the damping internals being used, which most likely means that you won't find a standard FIT RC2 cartridge inside of Gee's fork.
Gee Atherton did an early morning practice run at the US Open with this prototype inverted Fox fork bolted to the front of his Commencal. While Fox was tight lipped about the fork, being sure to emphasize that it is still quite a ways from being a production unit (if ever), they were kind enough to share some interesting information with us.

- While the fork is currently without a name, it is part of Fox's Racing Application Development (RAD) program that, as the name suggests, consists of products developed specifically for competition. There are about 15 different projects that currently fall under the RAD program umbrella .

- Fox is keeping mum on whether or not they plan to produce an inverted fork for the public, but Pinkbike is willing to say that that must surely be the goal down the road.

- Fox has actually been testing an inverted chassis for well over a year now, possibly much longer than that even.

- Word from Fox is that there are perhaps a dozen examples of this prototype inverted fork currently in different stages of testing

- Fox is evaluating many different spring combinations, including both air and coil, as well as a coil sprung and air assisted unit.

- They were not willing to comment on the damping internals being used, which most likely means that you won't find a standard FIT RC2 cartridge inside of Gee's fork.
While much is still unknown about the prototype fork, looking at this photo does tell us a few details. It seems to use a standard sized 20mm thru-axle, as well as Kashima coated tubes to help it slide smoothly. An adjuster, one that looks nothing like what is used on standard 40's, can clearly be seen at the bottom of the drive side fork leg, and the upper tubes seem to have an external taper to them, increasing in size as they reach the fork clamps.
While much is still unknown about the prototype fork, looking at this photo does tell us a few details. It seems to use a standard sized 20mm thru-axle, as well as Kashima coated tubes to help it slide smoothly. An adjuster, one that looks nothing like what is used on standard 40's, can clearly be seen at the bottom of the drive side fork leg, and the upper tubes seem to have an external taper to them, increasing in size as they reach the fork clamps.



Pinkbike's take: Massive news from Fox. While the inverted slider is still obviously very much in the prototype stage, they were confident enough in it to let Gee put in a practice run at the US Open for all to see - that speaks volumes. There are many advantages to an inverted chassis, including less unsprung weight that allows the wheel to track the ground better, as well as far more fore/aft rigidity. The old argument of inverted forks having less torsional flex needs to be thrown out the window as it is far less relevant than most believe. Keeping in mind that the fork is well into its travel when being ridden, which stiffens the inverted chassis up greatly, the cliche test of pinching the front wheel between your legs and twisting really has no bearing in real world applications. It is also interesting to note that many forms of motorized sport actually build in a degree of lateral flex to allow the wheel to follow the smoothest line through a section - especially when leaned over in a corner - which allows it to track better in the rough. While the upside down versus right side up argument could go on forever, we're wondering just what special internals are inside of Gee's prototype fork. Is it filled with an evolution of the FIT RC2 damper, or something completely new and unexpected. Is his fork air sprung? Regardless, it is great to see Fox working hard to develop and push the equipment that some of the best riders in the world use, because it means more advanced suspension for consumers down the road.


Stay tuned to Pinkbike for more information as it becomes available, but in the meantime tell us what you make of Fox's prototype inverted DH fork.


www.foxracingshox.com
Photo by Matt DeLorme
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372 Comments

  • + 254
 Regardless of other arguments for and against inverted forks, I think the most important aspect is the end user, either pro/serious or non-pro/non-serious.

For pros and serious racers, the decision for inverted or right-side-up will be made with a stop-watch. Nothing else matters.

For non-pros, the decision is made by maintenance. In my experience, if you don't keep on top of the condition of seals and bearings, scratches on stanchions etc then inverted forks can be a pain. And getting oil on brakes is never any good.

If I had a choice of Fox 40s, inverted or right-side-up, then I would go for the right-side-up because I don't have a mechanic and a magical supply of seals, oil, stanchions, brake pads and bearings, and I'd prefer to sit in a hot bath after a race instead of being in the shed stripping my forks down.
  • + 22
 i agree completely. if you have equipment and or a tech working for you i think they would be good but other wise ill stick with a non invert
  • + 14
 well put sir
  • + 7
 very well indeed
  • - 123
flag joshinthebox (May 29, 2011 at 21:38) (Below Threshold)
 i like this but it would be even cooler if it was pictures of me with a prototype fox inverted fork... i think i speak for almost everyone here though...
  • + 41
 My '04 Shiver was the smoothest and most reliable fork I've ever owned. A little heavy, but definitely inverted. And I never had a problem with the seals, oil, stanchions, brake pads or bearings.
  • + 1
 iamamodel, well put. besides, this debate can go on and on. let's just wait and see what fox comes up with.
  • + 4
 www.pinkbike.com/photo/5047873

Still have one, still love it. Maintenance, durability, action. Weight...Boo..

I have had a lot of right side up forks burp oil out also. same maintenance in my mind. but inverted tend to have more flex..not always important and they definitely have less unsprung weight which makes the fork faster especially on the small repetitive stuff.
  • + 21
 @iamamodel

so you're just going to assume that they will require a lot of maintenence, and you really dont know much about them besides the fact that its inverted? who says seals will be leaky and you will have to replace them every ride...



you know what happens when you assume don't you?
  • + 20
 Ok Iamamodel how many years ago has it been since you had inverted forks?
I'm no expert but I've had inverted forks on my mx bike for years and they've been the most reliable forks of any kind I've had, and even when they did leak my brakes didn't get covered in oil.
The stanchions should be less likely to wear the same as 'normal' forks, dirt won't sit on the seals the same.Yes the stanchions are closer to the ground but the plastic fenders will be sufficient in protecting them.
When you refer to keeping your 'bearings' in good working order do you mean the headset bearings or the wheel bearings and why would that have any relation to scratching the stanchions, unless you are meaning the bushes within the fork?

I say give fox a chance to show us what they can do with a chassis of this type, the technology in this sport is evolving and if these work well they will catch on just like inverted forks did in the motorbike scene both on and off road.
  • + 11
 No one mentioned White Bros forks, they were amazing back when.

Generaly what works in moto cornering works here (except sitting down, but those are issues adressed by rider interface, geometry and a very powerful engine between your knees)

As far as shivers go, beauty of a fork, but look inside them. Not exactly a complicated damper in comparison to todays cnc'd alluminum internals. As i recall they had a few pieces of plasic and a rod, worked great, but always smelled like VW bug engine oil when you drained them lol.

Push the envelope, try new stuff, if it works and is reliable, send it.
  • + 0
 i think the price will say alot about who the forks are made for and to be honest i think there going to be £2500+
and i highly doubt if they would have a few spare sets of seals and a tub of oil to help out
  • + 8
 I don't think they'd be that much, they're going to be in competition with the likes of manitou dorado which sell for about £1200 if they do come into production so I don't think it'll be much more than that. Anyway when buying anything, a car, a motorbike or a set of forks you should always factor in maintenance before deciding how much to spend. I don't get why the 'pinkbike engineers' that have to bash something before it's even in production are thinking the seals will be going all the time, they are forks and will most likely be as reliable as any other fork. Fork oil is only £10 or so for enough to cover 3-5 services, seals cost near £30. For a fork that costs £1000 that's cheap, I have complete faith in inverted forks and what the capabilities are.
  • - 14
flag vengeance111 (May 30, 2011 at 2:10) (Below Threshold)
 What's wrong with normal ones ? If it ain't broke don't fix it or some crap like that...
  • + 5
 I owned some White Bro's as well on an old Foes a fair few years ago. Buttery smooth and they tracked the grown so, so well. It would be interesting to see what the Proto's are like. With the development of technology in this day and age, there's no real danger of suffering from the generic problems we all did 5-10 years ago.
These will be on the market in 2-3 year I reckon. If Fox has placed it on a Pro's bike and allowed it to be seen by the worlds media, its not far from completion in my eyes. He'll ride them for the season and test them on the long term.
Good on Fox for not sitting on their Loral's.
I think here in the UK, they will be expensive but not £2500. More along the lines of the BOS fork. Around £1500-1800 Dave.
  • + 2
 my stratos upside down forks (sCool are really good
they are about 8 years (or more) old
and ive never had a problem with them
as rare as they are, current and past owners have always loved them
yes theyre heavy but the plushness and preload of them makes it feel the same weight as any other fork
  • - 18
flag Joelrider (May 30, 2011 at 2:31) (Below Threshold)
 Without talking if they work better or not and not talking about maintenance, invernted forks have a hugly Design, I won´t ride that thing in my Glory -.-'

I love FOX 40, but inverted no, 888 4LIFE
  • - 3
 @da-moose its fair to assume that an inverted fox fork will require a ton of maintanence just going on fox's past record of high maintanence dh forks
  • + 17
 You'd have to wonder why, if torsional stiffness isn't that big a deal to them, they originally built the 40 so big and stiff in the first place. It's not like they don't have any experience in the moto world either.

USD forks make sense on motocross bikes, where you have 100kg of bike (instead of 15-20) plus rider smashing through whoops and braking hard from 150km/h, and the greater bushing overlap really makes a difference. They are incidentally stiff enough torsionally, given that the only thing the front wheel can actually twist AGAINST is the rider's arms... which are going to be similar strength regardless of whether you're on a MX bike or a DH bike, because they're built so beefy (20-25lbs?) to resist the longitudinal forces. The same can't be said for DH forks, so I'm curious to know why, after finally nailing all the issues that the 40s had (shortish seal life, blowing bladders out of the original dampers, stanchion wear, lack of compression in stock guise), giving them a product that is the stiffest on the market, reasonably light, and super high performance, that they chose to invert the fork. Being Fox, I'd be very surprised if it sucked, so maybe they've got some tricky magic going on in there... but they really aren't going to lower the unsprung mass by any significant margin and there's just no way they can build it as stiff for the same weight. Yes various branches of motorsport have introduced some degree of lateral flex into their chassis/suspension systems, but next time you get your DH bike leaned over past 45 degrees on flat ground at 200km/h with 4" of rock hard suspension, come and tell us how relevant that is.

As far as maintenance - dunno where that idea came from, but the quality of your seals has a lot more to do with how long they last than whether they're facing the ground or the sky.
  • + 2
 Inverted forks are soo much more plush! But they weigh too much Frown My Avalanche inverted fork was the best fork i've ever ridden. And I've ridden Marzocchi's and Rock shox top of the line forks for many years now. The avalanche beats them all but it was heavy as f*ck..
  • - 3
 So you think the reason your Avalanche felt better than say a Shiver, was because it was inverted...? Or could it be that it felt better because it was better built (better bushings perhaps, seals I believe are actually the same) and better damped? Being inverted doesn't make a fork magically feel better; if you want some proof of this, turn your current Fox 40 upside down and bounce on it, see if it actually feels any better than when it's the right way up! Don't bother with RS or Marz as obviously all the oil will be up the wrong end of the fork meaning you have no damping when it's upside down...
  • + 11
 see this is what makes pb fun, everybody thinking they know better than the company thats actually making the product. I dont know how many of you know any more than whats right there on this page but i sure as hell dont. As the guy above said, they must be doing it for a reason and none of us are in any current position to prove them wrong in their choice until you've actually ridden the fork. If im honest, i would just go straigt up and buy a BOS idylle fork over anything else if you want the most reliable, consistant and highly performing fork.... even though i wish i owned a set, but i have ridden them
  • + 1
 I'm sorry I don't get the initial comment at all. 40's themselves require plenty of maintenance to keep them running in top form, even more so than most of the other 'high' end fork products from the other main manufacturers, including the replacement of seals, etc. 40 lowers have also shown a panache for not being the strongest. Granted I've made the switch back to right-side-up I've never experienced leaching of oil in any amount to get on rotors or calipers (both Dorado and Shiver).
  • - 59
flag anthonysjb (May 30, 2011 at 5:11) (Below Threshold)
 Inverted forks suck and always will. They are heavy and snap easily.
  • + 21
 Hey Manitou! You were right all along!
  • + 1
 When you think that you have the brand new model of Fox... they are just doing something new... --' Sometimes I really hate that!
  • + 4
 I know this is fox's spotlight but maybe just maybe marzocchi bring back the shiver but put the ti spring in it thats the one I would buy
  • + 1
 they look so slick!
  • + 1
 This looks like progress to me! Though I have to say the RAD project I am most interested in is the adjustable seatpost!
  • - 1
 I think that this is just to make their website get more views, more people talking about the company and to get more people to view their products. They have been making top of the range forks for years so why would they suddenly change all of that and create a hole new type of fork? There's no point.
  • + 1
 Tom, there's a production cycle for everything. When it becomes long in the tooth there's only so much you can do. Manitou went X-Vert, Dorado, Travis, Dorado, Rock Shocks went up to a 35mm chassis for the 2010 model year, etc, etc. Look at the automotive world. Plus people have to have the latest and greatest.
  • + 1
 That was probably said when disc brakes were first made for mountain bikes. v-brakes are light weight and work really well, why would you change all that with something so heavy like a disc brake?. This is evolution of suspension there are good points and bad points to any type, this has been tried before with reasonable success. Times have moved on a bit since the early inverted forks and obviously fox are trying to see if a chassis like this will work any better than a standard fork. A good few people swear by forks of similar design, Manitou's Dorado for one, I know how well they work on mx bikes hopefully the same is doable with mountain bike suspension.
  • + 1
 As for assuming (way at the top) "but Pinkbike is willing to say that that must surely be the goal down the road" did you guys have a p.r. meeting to discuss this? its no wonder pinkbike is so well respected as an impartial/ reliable source, its cuze they don't just make stuff up.
  • + 1
 Y'know, it has to be an awkward feeling being the guy who runs the prototype fork for the first time.
  • + 4
 Why are people talking so much crap ... If fox make something they will make it good .......
  • + 4
 because your forgeting that the majority of the pinkbike community are all on the inside of these projects set up by the leading companies in their efforts to further IMPROVE what technology they have and inovate what they know into something to make the worlds fastest faster etc. Little do we know that every person who has claimed, before theyve even been released what issues they have and will have. I dont know about you but on nearly every mx bike ive seen, dare i say it, they gots inverted forks. must be wrong, these guys dont agree. rant over
  • + 1
 regardless to an upside down moto fork, on a standart motorbike, it's nearly the same maintaining process as if you would have on a bike, i don t think it's a mather of doing it by itself or whatever, the good think is that the weight is low, and better handeling
  • + 1
 Physically, inverted forks make a lot more sense then regular forks. I've always wondered why the hell they are more popular in mountain biking??
  • + 2
 i guess that the inverted fork is thinking in a future fork for 29" downhill bikes
  • + 1
 trek are apparently working on a 29er dh bike. it was running dorados
  • + 1
 My 2004 Mozza Shivers were also great forks; very smooth and never had a problem with them. Best forks i've owned so far.
  • + 1
 congrats to joshinthebox for lowest rated comment on pinkbike ever. contact me for your medal.
  • + 5
 thanks. i try hard... not... i wasnt even thinking about it when i posted. didnt think people would straight poop on my comment like that. next time i just wont say how i would like to ride that fork too. il just talk about how much maintenance it requires and diss the seals and everything. i can see why people are scared of so much maintenance on the fork because they compare them to other older brand forks, but its fox, theyl come up with something cool, when it comes out and the first people ride it we will hear real reviews. I for my part love my 40s and havnt had to maintain them as much as i thought would have to. ... now seriously... wheres my medal
  • + 4
 people get way to caught up with the props on here.
  • + 1
 anyone giving that first comment positive props needs to stop believing the old rumors about inverted forks. I just have thing to say, if inverted forks were not the best fork in every single way, then how come motocross never went back to them after the last attempt on the suzuki in the early 90's. Inverted are indeed the best way to go regardless your riding/mechanic skills.
  • + 1
 aghodgkin, that's like saying "if 6 inch wide rear tyres aren't the best tyre in every single way, then howcome all motocross bikes use them?" - but I bet you don't run motocross size tyres on your downhill bike, because clearly MX bikes and DH bikes have different requirements. There are obviously plenty of similarities, but there are plenty of differences too! DH bikes aren't just a motocross bike without a motor.

It's also worth noting that conventional (non-inverted) forks on motorbikes didn't have the fork arch that all conventional MTB forks have, so in that case inverted forks actually increased the torsional stiffness by clamping on the larger diameter outer tubes. MTB forks DO have arches however, so inverted forks will only ever lose torsional stiffness simply because that arch disappears.
  • + 1
 There may be a small amount of rigidity lost. Without testing it is impossible to say how much, in some cases flex is good rather than a rigid construction which could lead to failure. If there was a loss in rigidity significant enough then we probably wouldn't see this prototype here. Obviously having the fork in this configuration allows the damping circuit to be used differently, maybe more effectively in the right hands than a conventional fork. We'll just have to see where this goes. One question Socket have you used a pair of modern USD forks?
  • + 3
 Flipping the fork upside down doesn't make any difference to how the damper is utilised in a performance sense (esp with Fox who use a sealed cart anyway, and recently flipped that cart inside the 40 to boot); in the case of the 40 it was done to allow for an expansion bladder instead of a collapsing bladder, which makes it almost impossible to blow the bladder out anymore. In terms of ride quality it doesn't change anything at all though.

As far as what is "significant" loss of rigidity, well that's the whole issue here really - no inverted forks are really so torsionally flexy that they're unrideable (yes I've ridden numerous and even owned an inverted fork), but then again, no conventional forks are so longitudinally flexy that they're unrideable either, so it comes down to which one works better, or is more confidence inspiring. When you're paying the kind of money that these things cost, most people aren't looking for "pretty good", they're looking for "as good as it possibly can be".

However, given how methodical Fox have been with the 40 and eliminating all its niggling issues one by one, I'd be reasonably confident that if they're even showing this thing in public, they've got some aces up their sleeve. Who knows, they might make a fork that's surprisingly stiff and blows us all away, I'd love to see that happen even though to me it seems unlikely.
  • + 1
 I think that the un-sprung weight loss is so awesome and logical that arguing that the torsional stiffness makes it not worth is dumb. Socket, dh and mx bikes have different requirements (like you said, tire width) but the suspension requirements are fairly similar.
  • + 2
 Thank you Cedrico. I think Socket got a little carried away there trying to beat up my comment. And the tires size??? come on that was not a good comparison. Dirt Bikes weigh nearly 300 pounds, of course there is gonna be a wider tire. Ive been riding moto my whole life and now have mtb as a profession, I realize about flex and supports and all that, but thats not what I was saying, im talking pure performance. Flex can be good btw, people just read that it wasn't one day and the rumors took over without knowing facts! Shivers were, and still are, one of the best forks to hit the market, that was 7+ years ago... I think we will see some really nice inverted forks hitting the market very soon. I don't care either way to be honest, but it would be nice to have more options out there!
  • + 4
 Right, dirt bikes weigh 300lbs, which means they have a LOT of mass trying to bend those forks forwards when you're braking (which leads to binding/increased friction if they aren't stiff enough). Downhill bikes obviously lack that amount of mass, so they don't have quite the same loads trying to bend and bind the fork under braking (or heavy landings, esp if you case a sharp knuckle), which means that obviously MX forks are going to be a lot more heavily built than MTB forks. However, as I mentioned in an earlier post, torsional loads are developed between the tyre and the RIDER'S arms, and have pretty well nothing to do with the mass of the bike. Therefore, the heavily built MX forks are torsionally very stiff simply because they're built huge to withstand much higher bending loads than the DH forks, but only cop the SAME torsional loads that DH forks do.

Because the torsional loads are higher RELATIVE to the bending loads on a downhill bike, if you're trying to optimise stiffness/strength to weight (ie make the fork as light, stiff and strong as possible) then you need to place a higher priority on torsional stiffness/strength on a DH fork than you do on a MX fork. This is why most DH forks are "conventional" forks whereas inverted forks are obviously the superior choice for motorbikes. Get where I'm coming from?

As for the unsprung mass thing, that really is a myth on DH forks - the lowers are often as light or lighter than the pair of stanchions (plus a set of forged dropouts, which are integrated into the casting of high end conventioanl forks anyway and weigh next to nothing, but are significantly heavier on an invert).

As I said though, Fox don't do things for no reason, so it wouldn't surprise me if they'd come up with some tricky stuff in that fork that works really well, is sufficiently stiff etc.
  • + 2
 and if i may add to this, fox have alot of experiene with mx aswell as biking, if they can make a successful mx fork then they can surely make a suitable dh fork on the same principles for the different purpose
  • + 15
 A man goes to college to become a mechanical engineer,studies and studies, takes physics and chemistry and what not. Then he gets some smaller jobs until applying for a job at Fox. Fox only chooses the best, and the man gets the job. He works there for years alongside many other talented engineers. And then Pinkbike users know all the fatcs.... lol
  • + 2
 riggadon, you made me LOL! best comment i ever heard in months. props to you!
  • + 1
 anybody else think, considering they are proto typing with air they will bring out the normal 40's air sprung? then these the year after???
  • + 47
 Aren't most moto forks inverted? You'd think that if they are they must be that way for a reason.
  • + 7
 The stantions (and inevitably the seals are HUGE) making gaining a seal MUCH easier
  • + 3
 i wud buy em
  • + 1
 my forks take 35mm seals can be bought easily from a motorbike shop company thought of everything
  • + 8
 If a motocross bike can handle inverse forks then I'm sure a bicycle can handle it. I cant imagine them needing any more maintenance, and if they would for some reason, forks aren't that hard to rebuild. Being mechanically retarded isn't a reason not to get nice forks.
  • + 40
 Sheesh, they finally put the compression knobs on top where they should be and now they flip the friggin' thing upside down?
  • + 3
 Haha, I still want one, regardless of where the knobs are.. I don't adjust my fork while I'm riding anyways.
  • + 5
 If you routinely need to adjust mid-ride, you might be doing it wrong.
  • + 36
 Now all the cool kids are going to say how much "normal" forks suck.
  • + 7
 yeah your damn right! just cant win no matter what you ride - they say well im winning because i enjoy riding, no matter what i ride
  • + 5
 'fox have brought them out and a dh rider has them they must be better than anything else EVER invented even better than food'
  • + 14
 food is over rated
  • + 7
 Im more suprised with the army of kids who claim inverts suck even though probably 90% of them have only seen one in pictures given their popularity.
  • + 19
 It should be called the FOX 0h
  • + 5
 No, I it should be called the XOF 04
  • + 11
 0h = inverted 40. The fork is upside down. Hence Fox 0h.
  • + 1
 well if you're naming it that then technically it would be 04 XOF...
  • + 2
 @boggie, I get it, but I just thought it would be better to invert the whole thing. But since there is no key that looks like an upside down F, I just decided to make it backwards.
  • + 36
 wait shouldnt it be called the Fox -1/40? Mathematically speaking, of course.
  • + 2
 shouldnt it be called the fox xx usd
  • + 6
 angrynipples you're a legend
  • + 2
 haha angrynipples - I can just picture the marketing slogans now!
  • + 12
 Forget how it handles in the hands of the pros. I want to know how it handles being abused on countless shuttles and by a rider who forgets to clean it up and/or maybe skips a maintenance interval.
  • + 11
 I think overall this is a step in the right direction. We have been hammering a Dorado Pro for about a year now and it has been flawless. The fork has about 200K vertical feet on it. Compared to the 2011 Fox 40 it is a little less stiff but the fork simply works better in high speed situations of chatter and rocks. SHOWA helped Manitou out with the latest version of the Dorado and they spend more per year in R&D than Fox probably does in a Decade of MTB suspension R&D. So they may help Manitou. But if Fox takes their time they could have a good fork on the market. I would think they would go AIR with the inverted design to keep weight down.
  • + 4
 I'd love to see your sources regarding the R&D of Fox, SHOWA and Manitou....
  • + 1
 I am 100% estimating the cost I can only guess. A Showa suspension R&D engineer who I have know for 25+ years was talking with me about the Dorado 3 or so years ago. Maybe it is not a 10:1 spending ratio difference.
  • + 1
 my dorado is really reliable. i love that fork
  • + 1
 i dunno about your r and d estimate figures there fox is a pretty damn big suspension company alot of companies use them on their vehicls as stock parts
  • + 0
 So what if your R&D friend talked to you about the dorados 3 or so years ago, they have been out for over 2 years, so not much to brag about there... As for Fox, didn't they spend like 5 years testing different versions of stanchoins? Way longer than Rock Shox or Manitou have been testing stanchions! They must have tested a dozen of those nickel coated ones before finding Kashima coat.
  • + 0
 Ok Domino0 you seem to know heaps about R & D too. Rockshox are currently doing testing on stanchion coatings as we've seen on the pros bikes. Manitou seem to have already done their homework on inverted forks, they even took the product off the line to continue development for several years. As far as this fork type goes manitou have proven themselves already and are continuing to improve it. We have little insight into how much R & D actually goes on.
  • + 1
 I was never implying that Manitou haven't proven themselves with this fork type, nor that they are continuously improving...in fact I believe them to be very successful.

I was merely commenting to 'downhillnews' that Fox have spent far more time doing R&D than he thinks! And yes Rock Shox are doing a lot of testing with stanchions now with their DLC coating, but they have only just started this in the past year, whereas Fox have been doing it for over 4 years, therefore contradicting what was said about Fox not doing much R&D.
  • + 2
 The $$$ figure comparing MOTO suspension to MTB is not fair due to Motorcycles having a much bigger market overall than DH Bikes do. Think about it for what 20 plus years now SHOWA has been making Motorcycle suspension systems. We are talking GP teams spending $10's of millions per season. So yes that falls into the R&D expense they have a lot of experience with inverted forks. So being able to access what a HUGE companies engineers have learned over decades of racing moto was surely beneficial to Manitou and their chassis design. So if FOX spends their time and develops the chassis properly it should work out well.
  • + 15
 get some close ups?
  • + 10
 someone point that contour down towards the tire
  • + 4
 The best your're gonna get for now is to open the image in a new tab in your browser and click on the highest resolution.
  • + 28
 dorados arent so stupid after all!
  • + 1
 sounds really awesome, i would like to see how the weight turns out
  • + 61
 ʇı ǝʞıן ı
  • + 23
 Wow. Oooo reminds you of a Manitou, Dorado. Just because Fox comes out with one everyone likes it. Big whoopy.
  • + 19
 Dorado's are sweet, we've known this for a while.
  • + 8
 'bout time inverted forks come back into style.
  • + 0
 corr people say h bikes are just motocross bikes without engines. now tere having same style forks! renthal bars!, what else? big front and rear fenders... oh wait.
  • + 9
 Maybe an MX bike is a DH bike with an engine! Razz
  • + 2
 yessss!!!!!
  • + 1
 everyone knows the tech from mx usually filters down to the cycle world thats always how its been
  • + 2
 I would love to see virtual pivot point on Mx bike though.
Pedaling effeciency my ass in there ;D
  • + 2
 Well I did NOT see this coming!
  • - 5
flag banshee-ripper (Jun 2, 2011 at 11:00) (Below Threshold)
 A dorado is still a manipoo, and this here FOX will beat any manipoo!
  • + 6
 Have any of you guys who are bagging on the inverted design even TRIED one? My last inverted was an old 8" Mr. Dirt FAT fork, from the days when 6" was pushing the "big" envelop. They are indeed more twisty than upright forks. But, for what it's worth, it made NO difference on the trail when compared to a 6" Bxr.
FYI, my criteria for buying a fork is minimal maintenance. That's why I don't ride a Bxr any longer. The FAT fork was the ultimate in set and forget, no maintenance fork. I cracked mine for no good reason after 2 season than to check it out. The oil was still clear and w/o any contaminants. So yeah, the seal problem was solved back in '98.

Edit: if this Fox proto doesn't require a liter of oil per leg, I'm SO on it!
  • + 1
 yeah i believe thats the only downside is weight but as i sad above, the way a usd fork works, its doesnt translate to a 'heavier feel' just feels the same really - if not better
  • + 2
 I've had two sets of shivers and still have a set of FAT forks and they are still way plusher than my new 2011 888 evo ti's. IF marzocchi made another shiver dc type fork today, i'd but it instantly - they are stiffer where they are needed, plusher, require less maintenance as the seals are constantly coated in oil and just look way cooler
  • + 1
 I heard Marzocchi has a new Shiver coming out.
  • + 8
 Heck ya son! Bring on the inverted forks again! I personally would be happy to see this come to production!
  • + 3
 Well if fox did make an inverted fork for the public it would be killer! inverted forks are much more reponsive, because if you think about it which moves easier? lowers moving up onto stantions or have your stantions move into your lowers (invertedly though) its less mass to move making the fork way more responsive
  • + 3
 not bad, i've been running a new dorado for awhile now with no problems, everyone says their seals leak a ton which is not true at all, never had any issues. what i want to know is if fox is gunna do something like the inertia valve found in a dorado, that system along with the shim stack damping is what makes the dorado so great. best fork i've ridden so far
  • + 2
 The Dorado rules. TPC+ Damping kicks ass.
  • + 3
 A lot of talk about inverted forks leaking and having seal problems, not true, I've had 2 team boxer forks this past year and both hydrolocked on me, and now one is leeking oil. IMO boxer is a mass produced, low quality, overprised POS.
  • + 2
 I'm with you Connerkuhns.
My buddy had a pair of 03 Shivers and they seemed to ride amazing for him. Along with the same maintenance as any other fork.
Plus if inverted forks were so unreliable why is all the mx from pro to joe level inverted and have been for as long as I remember. So if they were so unreliable why would someone use them in s sport on a bike that is going twice the speed and weighs 5 times as much as our bikes?
Just sayin...
  • + 1
 thanks dude. yea inverted forks really are the best. the dorado really is the best dh fork ive ever ridden, ive ridden old boxxers, new boxxers, old fox 40's and new ones, the dorado blows them all out of the water. people talk about the issue of the forks flexing, when the fork is all the way extended it will flex some, but it flexes in a good way, the wheel tracks by itself onto the smoothest path, however much it moves, you cant feel it at all, when the fork is fully extended as well, it isnt quite as importent for the fork to be stiff as the loads it encounters arnt as high. However when the fork get compressed more, the loads and forces on the fork get higher, and what happens is the fork becomes stiffer as it compresses, therefore making it stiffer when it needs to be stiffer.
  • + 2
 Mah, he just thought Manitou Dorado is so sweet that he must give it a try finally, and his mechanic just stripped off the vinyls and put a Fox sticker on, then took the adjuster bottom cap from 40s and superglued it under - it's that simple...
  • + 4
 and it was funded by the us government to cover up the alien abductions...
  • + 1
 Nay, it's about oil again... Fox works with Exxon who discovered super oil near the North Passage while they were doing deep sea drilling. It will make McDonald increase theit fastfood sales in Quebec and push BP out of business. But someone stole a bit of it and hidden it in this upside down fork. Gee will take the samples and deliver them personally tp the hands of Her Majesty. Gee is MI 9 agent, the bit at the bottom of the leg is actually a silencer. Beware of Gee doing manuals!
  • + 1
 i knew it! best 20 seconds of my night was spent reading that hahaha
  • + 2
 they dont look the best but hell if they work good and a company as good as fox is making them then i imagine they have something pretty good going for them with the new proto. but i wont judge till they are in production with a real review.
  • + 1
 Hoooooray
  • + 2
 Still riding my 05 DC Shivers www.pinkbike.com/photo/6195795. Yes its a bit heavy as a Marzocchi. But super reliable desogn. Broke 4 sets of stanction protectors, but they still cost a lot less than lowers of conventional forks. I just wish they come up with new Shiver with modern cartidges in it. Remember that Fox strongly recommended to put the bike upside down before riding to let the oil reach the bushings? With this design that wont be necessary anymore.
  • + 3
 Avalanche DHF8 a little heavy,but if you ever had one you would understand how sweet it is and still is,reliable,never had any seal issues with minimal maintenance,and internally a work of art.
  • + 2
 I think the need for lighter weight on a MTB compared to moto prevented the manufacturers from using the inverted design. While superior, it is easier to make a light fork conventionally. The tolerances must be in better check with an inverted design, which requires more costly manufacturing. An example of this is the KTM WP inverted fork. It always seemed a step behind the Japanese offerings is spite of superior design. The problem was the tubing used for the lowers. When they switched to a different supplier, they went from the lowest rated to the highest rated in the MX world. However, in the off road world, the "old" fork was the highest rated but with a different intended use.
  • + 1
 I have been using Dorado's since 2007 and love them. I never could get along with conventional forks. I come from a motocross background and the steering feel is more precise with the inverted design. I know that is not what the MTB world believes but this debate had long been ended in the moto world. Very few of the people commenting have ever ridden both designs back to back, but I actually have. The flex feel is different between the two designs. The flex happens where the stanchion connects with the lower clamp on a conventional fork, and where the stanchion connects with the upper leg on an inverted fork. The rigidity of the clamp to fork interface is the most important factor of several in steering feel. This is one of the inverted designs advantages. The conventional design has better small bump compliance which makes sense when you look at where the fork flexes. If the tube flexes at the clamp, away from the slider, there is no binding. The inverted design flexes where the stanchion enters the upper tube causing slight binding. It takes a bigger hit to get them moving. In the moto world, the bushing and seal fit is a bit looser to compensate for this. The highest performance forks use the loosest seals minimizing stiction, but they require frequent replacement. The carbon Dorados can have slight flex engineered into the uppers to matrch the lowers to prevent binding. It is harder to do this with aluminum.
  • + 1
 I have in current use and over the last several years on several big bikes, Avalanche DHF inverted and Shivers....i have had nothing but excellent performance and zero failures of any type on either fork. the Avalanche is superior to me in terms of small bump sensitivity and the "bottomless travel" feel. But both have seen numerous mountain days, and ugly free ride lines, flat drops and crashes galore. Nothing but smiles at the end of each ride day !! Wile I am not a huge fox fan from having far too many shocks fail at the worst possible moments, however, this fork looks nice and i am eager to see what it brings to the table of possible weaponry.
  • + 1
 Fox thinks there a advantage with inverted forks, that a why they have a prototype. Inverted forks aren't a new idea but Fox has a reputation for world class products, I'm sure this will be the same. I personally like inverted forks and always wondered why companies don't offer more choices. After all I'm sick of seeing Fox 40s, and boxers, there all over the place.
  • + 1
 if its from Fox it must be good... but as a weekend mortal Downhiller.. its more of an issue of maintenance rather than performance. crashes and shuttles are the most common wear down of a fork, but i think the protectors are sturdy enough... anyhow just take a look at your current fork legs
  • + 2
 i had shivers,40s,bombers,now on a set of white brothers gv200 which are fantastic,upside down forks are sweet for maintenance if you have any sort of hands on ability and dont need as much service as my 40s ever did
  • + 1
 Is it April fools…?? Seriously, it’s good to see Fox’s step on from the 40’s (btw, great fork), it’s all about continuous improvement. While it’s been tried in the past, concerns about leaking, flex, etc. are somewhat irrelevant now. The technology has come on so much in the last 10 years it’s unbelievable. FEA, data acquisition systems, are standard tools used by the top end companies to improve reliability and function for the end user. I think the fact that Gee’s willing to use it on a race weekend must indicate the fork is well into development and performing really well. More product development in the sport is a good thing for us weekend warriors!! Stoked to see this.
  • + 1
 dude, 10 years?
my forks is about that old and its still amazing
  • + 1
 My 2001 Shiver weighed 7.5lbs with two steel coil springs and a lot of oil in it. A Fox 40 weighs about 7lbs. I heard Marzocchi has been testing a new Shiver with titanium springs, magnesium drop outs, titanium axle, just like the motocross forks they have for the European MX1 racers. They did it 12 years ago, why did it take over a decade for Fox to make a prototype?
  • + 1
 the only way your shivers could of weighed that little is if you forgot to put oil and springs in .
  • + 1
 Marzocchi has a 55mm, 8.5 lb upside down motocross race fork, I'm sure they can make a 7 lb Shiver with oil and titanium springs.
  • + 1
 Set aside the performance side of things, i've never been a huge fan of inverted forks. That being said, I do think that it is a good thing for the sport that fox is looking into this though, more choices for us riders, as long as prices aren't stupid expensive.
  • + 1
 I used to ride motocross until it became too damn expensive. My first DH bike had a conventional fork, a 66, which soon got upgraded to an inverted White Brothers. Let me tell you that while I couldn't tell much difference in fork flex, the inverted fork torched the conventional in tracking through rough sections and felt a lot more familiar to my old mx ride. It was so much easier guiding my sled through rock gardens with the inverted design. They look pretty rad too, always getting comps on the front end of my bike (not that that matters too much).
  • + 1
 I think that the inverted forks could really go somewhere. if you guys think about them in terms of durability inverted forks are used in all the dirt bikes that i can think of. yamaha, ktm, honda, kawisaki, suzuki, gasgas, husqvarna, husaberg and pretty much any other brand. i think if they're durable enough for dirt bikes, (which take just as much if not more abuse than a dh bike) then they are good enough for my bike. also about the maintenance its really not bad at all, i own a dirt bike and the forks are really easy to tear down and rebuild with a minimal number of tools. and unless you have a scratched tube then the seals will last a loooong time.
  • + 1
 Inverted shocks or struts were specifically designed for racing to transfer the weight of the spring shock combination from unsprung to sprung weight. The reason being that the less unsprung weight in a wheel/suspension system the quicker the shock reacted to road surface changes keeping the tire in greater contact with the surface thus increasing traction and handling performance. How this advantage translates to mtb biking is not so clear. Since our sport is already obsessed with weight. Things such as light weight wheels and tires and air springs have already reduced unnecessary un sprung mass to a minimum. Other issues that arise are the stiffness versus conventional forks. If you are downhill racing and need a stiff setup regardless of total weight the quickness of the inverted fork would offer increased contact with the dirt and the bike would handle better. Where weight is a premium the benefits may not be as noticeable. But the good news is that light weight xc bikes have reduced unsprung weight in other ways most noticeably the wheels. I might add a suggestion for the xcers to lose more unsprung weight would be to go back to v-brakes which are not only lighter but also reside on the sprung side of the suspension. Most rim brake only wheels are 100 grams lighter than disk add to that the 200 plus grams for rotors and calipers and you have lost 3/4 of a pound per wheel of unsprung weight !!! This obviously would not work for downhill bikes which would melt the pads off in one run or less. I don't think that damping characteristics other that the decreased loading of the fork and quicker valving are different between the two designs
  • + 1
 I see that some people are hung up on the service schedule from Fox, has anyone really researched the service schedules for any high end race forks? I run a service shop and I can tell you that a Fox 40 has EXACTLY the same schedule as a RockShox Boxxer. All race level equipment is high maintenance. It intended purpose is racing. An oil change after 100 hours is actually a good length of time, think about a race run is what, 3 minutes? Lets say a racer does 30 practice runs and 1 race run, it's time for service. If you are skilled enough to race on the world cup or even a high level local level, that to me is a good couple weekends. I run this level equipment, not because it's what I need (I'm old and slow) but because I can. I personally do not service my forks this often as I am not racing at a World Cup level, actually, I should be servicing my forks after about 10 runs I'm so slow.
  • + 1
 I have owned both of the older Dorado and Shiver and they were some of the best forks that I have ever used. I have to agree with the idea that the inverted fork offers a better tracking ride and small bump sensitivity than most of the "traditional" forks out there today.
  • + 1
 this seems like a good idea in my opinion, i think before we judge the fork and make up our mind about it, more is needed to know about the internals and just need to know more bout the fork in general. i guess the futue will bring us the answer Smile
  • + 1
 Only thing I would really be worried about is shuttle damage to the stanchions IF they got moved around or what not or if the fenders got knocked/ripped/damaged. But I know people that have Shivers with none so *shrugs* we'll see! I am going to say that wear and tear is going to be about the same. It all depends on how you ride and how you take care of your stuff.
  • + 1
 i myself was worried about the stantions from shuttling on my dorado, but im happy to report that i have yet to have any issues, no damage at all
  • + 1
 1. glad Fox are looking at inverted forks again. yes I said again because the Cannondale DH team (Garcia + Chausson) were running fox internals on their cannondale inverted fork. In 2000!
www.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/Doug-Dalton-Cannondale-History-Part-1,923/Slideshow,2590/sspomer,2

2.Kowa was used on the Honda bike Minaar used to WIN the worldcup.

3.Vouiloz and Chausson both won several world cups championships and worldchamps on inverted forks, so they've been proven to work at the highest level.

4. I have a shiver dc from 2002 which i bought last summer and I love it.
  • + 1
 I agree with you that inverted forks have been used for a long time and are great. The Honda used Showa suspension (same company that makes the moto suspension for Honda) rather than Kowa.
  • + 1
 I like the inverted fork for racing. I think they shp\ouldnt replace the standard 40 with a inverted fork though. They should price them diffrentlly. So basically have a inverted fork for racing apps and priced for heavy spenders and a standard 40 priced lower.
  • + 3
 Yeah it would be nice to dump 300-500 off 40 price and make the Invert the high dollar fork.
  • + 4
 i bet that, given the same number produced, inverted forks are cheaper to make. with right side up forks, you are required to make cast lowers, which are very complicated. inverted forks basically just use tubes that slide within other tubes and have machined crowns and dropouts (could also be cast, but would be dirt cheap because they have a simple geometry). plus, i like how inverted fork seals are always being lubricated
  • + 0
 Oh deffinely dude. They probablly are way cheaper to make. There way more simplar too.
  • + 1
 Risk vs, reward! If you are a pro rider and someone else is paying then more power to you. For the rest of us then I guess it depends on the rider. I would like to see what Fox comes up with. I like Fox products but I think they are often more complicated then they need to be. There are a lot of shops who can't even work on them.
  • + 2
 well im loving this new ideia of the inverted forks to come back again, if there was a new shiver, i think i would have found a new friend to my bike Big Grin btw i hope this fork takes new tecnology to the sport
  • + 0
 As few sensible people said already, those riders who think that inverted forks leak just because of gravity really shows that they don't know anything about forks..... I will tell you what, if you are not a racer and you still want non inverted 40s.. well get it (just because all pros have it and it's cool).. however you won't be so pleased after you find out that in every 10 hours you have to change its oil and if you don't do it the fork will start skipping.. I hope that if FOX release this new fork, it will have different and more reliable internals which will be more suitable for end consumers.
  • + 0
 I really do not see the point of showing us this, it hardly shows us anything about the fork, pro's are using s**t loads of prototype stuff on their bikes. I could see if they were absolutely going to put it into production, then yeah give us a teaser, but they are even being tight-lipped about that. This whole post=waste of time, it doesn't tell us shit!
  • + 0
 This fork is for pro's, riders without a spending limit, or for snobs. The top fork does not make progress only do a workout, and my boxxer maintains itself in 25 minutes twice a season, which makes the work better than Fox without service
  • + 2
 I will laugh very hard if this inspires Marzocchi to bring back the shiver. It'd be like watching Fox shoot themselves in the foot.
  • + 0
 Bottom line - Inverted forks are a more efficient design for suspension, period. The Dorados downfall is that they have Manitou internals, and carbon is a terrible media for forks..you're going go hit them on stuff. The White Bros and Bombshell versions I saw with lots of leak issues. Foes continued to over-engineer their version and it was too expensive. Marzocchi hit the nail on the head with the Shivers but the market shifted after 2003 and people began to focus on DH weight loss instead of building motorless 125cc dirtbikes. Marzocchi outsourced their quality away. I'm super happy to see Fox pick up the baton and run with this idea! Now if we could only convice them that you don't have to price-gouge your customers who are willing to pay for a good product. With fingers crossed and wallet cramping, I look forward to this future with a nervous smile...
  • + 1
 im sorry but the dorado's downfall is not the internals, the internals are what make it so great. the dorado is a great fork, id be willing to bet you havent ridden one at all or at least one not set up correct for you
  • + 0
 Inverted forks look real, right and amazing. mountain biking is so far behind in technology. as soon as you realize that motocross has wayyyy more money to spend on engineering for suspension then the sooner you'll realize thats the direction mountain biking needs to head. they were right on track when the shiver and durado were out and somewhere along the line, the industry decided to listen to all the mtbr forums vs. reality and facts. Think god manipoo never gave up, and what do you know, as soon asyou know it, they got their stuff together and actually made a good inverted fork, everyone else follows! Im glad to see this has happened and hope to see a new "shiver" to come. Fox has def got the right idea on this one.
  • + 3
 Ok Marzocchi, Fox made a move for the inverted design, now you have no excuse not to consider the Shiver again.
  • + 3
 perhaps, very soon Marzzochi will roll out their famous inverted forks once again.
  • + 4
 why no? people loved shivers to death, I've only heard positive feedback about them.
  • + 1
 I still love Shiver, too.
  • + 1
 if they could re-release them again but lighter with the same reliability I would buy the for sure
  • + 0
 if its from Fox it must be good... but as a weekend mortal Downhiller.. its more of an issue of maintenance rather than performance. crashes and shuttles are the most common wear down of a fork, but i think the protectors are sturdy enough... anyhow just take a look at your current fork legs
  • + 1
 just because it has a good brand name on it doesnt mean it will be good

that said it will probably be good

but remember those toyota cars that came out with the brake problems? - brand name doesnt mean great product
  • + 1
 cough *marzocchi 55 08* cough
  • + 4
 Not a big fan, wish it was april fools
  • + 4
 x fusions prototype dh fork is inverted as well
  • - 27
flag norcalproductions (May 29, 2011 at 20:37) (Below Threshold)
 ya no one cares
  • + 7
 oh but you'd be wrong mate. Plenty do and will. Wink
  • + 5
 Everyone gets the right to an opinion, even if stating it makes them look like an idiot.
  • + 1
 yeah x fusion are doing quite well
i had an 02 shock (well still have it, just on an unused frame), i was quite impressed buy it
  • - 1
 they dont currently have a prototype fork out, the inverted dh fork by x fusion you have seen is very old and they dont produce it anymore, they wont have one out yet for a bit.
  • + 1
 the drd x fusion team were running them at fontana
  • + 1
 no, only 1 guy on the team ran a inverted fork, that was JD, he was riding the intense 2951 (29er dh bike) with a manitou dorado on the front, covered it with white decals so people wouldnt know its a dorado
  • + 1
 oh okay well that makes sense, you know your stuff
  • + 1
 Finally, Mountain bike forks should always be inverted, actually makes the most sense, kind of like dirt bikes, Gonna be sick if everything goes well and then ditch fox and get a rock shox inverted fork haha
  • + 1
 did rock shox ever make an inverted fork?
  • + 1
 No I don't think so but Im saying when they do it should be rad!!
  • + 2
 If fox market this ...and it works, I'd say that all the main companies would have an upside down DH fork on the market. including the old shiver

www.mtbr.com/cat/older-categories-bikes/2004-front-shocks/marzocchi/shiver-dc/PRD_362987_1525crx.aspx
  • + 2
 rockshox should make an inverted fork with their sexy ass black stantion coating...
  • + 1
 mine have black stanchions
  • + 1
 But are they inverted?
  • + 1
 yessir Big Grin
  • + 1
 My forks are double inverted!
  • + 0
 If they dare try to sell this as an improvement on a 40! If they market it as anything other than an equal but different fork then what forgetful minds they think we have! Put it this way, they spend 5 years or so telling us that 40s are the best money can get, they cant reasonably now say that, no, the design was flawed from the beginning. 'That thing on the front of your bike that you paid a grand for is actually really heavy in the wrong places and, if anything, too stiff to be effective.' I wouldn't be raging if this design hadn't already been prevalent years ago. Fox made the choice to build 40s rather than and upside down fork - then they told us they made the best choice by selling the things.
  • + 2
 i think it would be a case of a different choice these forks will work and feel different but yes, you are right but this is how technology advances
  • + 3
 Some company coppied Kowa 200 GF????
Japaneses always on the Top. The rest are simple followers.
  • + 1
 since the war, japan have excelled in engineering, in pretty much every way its not just being good at something, theyre a really determined race
  • + 1
 Knew they would start making moto style USD forks again since the shiver died out. Obviously long over-due since they have been using USD's on MX bikes for a while now.
  • + 1
 i cant believe how long it took them to finally make an inverted fork! the dorado and all of avalanches forks have been around for a long time! it looks really sick though!
  • + 2
 cool. inverted is way better! when moto bikes made the switch they rode way better. still ridin my shiver.
  • + 1
 Been beating my avalanche forks since 2001 no leaks breaks ect... No other fork even compares try one! look vids and check it out
  • + 3
 Gee has some massive legs!
  • + 2
 no kidding...
  • + 1
 Interesting. I wonder if the other suspension companies will start making these as well and inverted forks will become the norm down the road?
  • - 6
flag mike-gillespie (May 29, 2011 at 19:36) (Below Threshold)
 what is the benefit of them?
  • + 25
 They explain the benefits in the article mike. Why not give it a read.
  • + 2
 sorry that part of the story wasnt there when i looked at the page
  • + 1
 Ah. Not surprised they edited it quickly. Maybe they're updating it IRT since this is a pretty big deal and they wanted to break the story first.
  • + 0
 just be looking at it, the fox looks better than the manitou.
  • + 2
 looks aint everything, ill tell you tho, ive been riding a dorado for awhile, and im pretty sure this fork isnt gunna have anything on the shim stack damping and inertia valve system in the dorado
  • + 1
 ya i know, ive never tried a inverted one. i would like to some time, it would be cool to compare the two.
  • + 1
 it will seriously blow you away, i rode one on a friends bike, was crazy good, sold my boxxer wc and bought one
  • + 1
 i had shiver and Dorado . i liked the shiver better . thats just me im sure the fox will be a great . if you want a beast of a fork , get monster T now was badass
  • + 1
 whys everyone dissing shivers? they where like the fox 40 of there time, still thriving well, ive only heard good stuff about them
  • + 1
 My 2001 Shivers were way ahead of their time, simply amazing forks.
  • - 1
 Propaganda... marketing even. I like how the article goes on to defend lateral flex, saying it's not such an issue - then it explains how lateral flex is actually important - in other motor sports. I understand about trickle-down technology, but just because it's good for "other motorsports" does not necessarily mean its good for biking.

That said, I think it's cool Fox is experimenting, I curious to see how well they can implement the inverted deal. I just find it funny that PinkBike feels the need to try to nip the naysayers in the bud.
  • + 3
 I'd imagine that the Author wrote about the perceived issues with lateral flex in an attempt to prevent the usual flame war that occurs every time the subject of inverted forks is brought up....
  • + 2
 I'm pretty sure that's the reasoning... futile, but I guess I can appreciate the attempt Wink
  • + 2
 anyone else notice the XTR brake levers with Saint Calipers Gee is running? cuz they look sick!
  • + 2
 I just wonder why it took Fox so long to hop on board with this inverted design. Inverted isn't exactly new...
  • + 1
 what i love about inverted forks is their ability in muddy conditions, i used to have some mr dirts and could ride through anything, my boxxers now always get clogged up.
  • + 3
 Bring back the Marzocchi shiver
  • + 3
 yay, another overpriced product out of reach of the consumer, Go fox!
  • + 1
 I had two Foes F1 forks in 1998 and 2000 and I loved them both. I always thought inverted forks looked moto.
  • + 2
 I've been hearing this for years, y'all called me crazy!
  • + 1
 i didnt sir, my usd forks are years old Big Grin
  • + 1
 i ride a shiver on my dh, and i love it , but i do blow seals every so often
  • + 1
 Manitou dorado all the way!nothing else can be matched.Especially dorado carbon is teh SHIT!!!!!!
  • + 2
 its just like motocross.... heell yeah id buy one
  • + 1
 oh fox how I love you, Its been some time since you suprised me with something new!
  • + 1
 Combination of medium rebound and im guessing about 220mm travel Razz Looks great and I hope to see it on the market soon.
  • + 1
 The best part of inverted forks is the lack of an arch means 29 inch compatibility!
  • + 7
 if you put a 29 inch wheel on it your lower crown will probably come in contact with your wheel when bottomed, thats why manitou has a 29er specific dorado...
  • + 1
 and beyond that...who in their right mind would ride a 29'er DH bike?! I love my 29'er, but I race XC. I know from riding aggressive trails that 29'ers are NOT ideal for DH...far too clumsy, especially when they weigh 40 lbs
  • + 2
 Intense was testing a 2951 for a while, and seemed to think it worked really well.
  • + 1
 you can run a 3.0 tyre

a 29'' would fit but would be pointless - something like 11'' or so of clearance then minus travel (mine are 8'') would be a close call!
26'' is just right
  • + 1
 29" tires havent caught on for DH since they
1. need larger forks, rims, etc.
2. have low torsional rigidity since there is more leverage o the hub
3. WEIGHT
if they can solve those issues with 29ers somehow then they could be pretty good for DH
  • + 1
 Pretty impossible to solve the issue about low torsional rigidity though. Unless you cut the diameter back about 3in Smile
  • + 2
 You do know the 29'r Dorado is just a regular Dorado set at 7" with a taller bottom out.. Same could be done here.
  • + 1
 I was at the open and saw this inverted fox. It's sweet looking. I'd buy one
  • + 1
 Still waiting on Marzo to come out with the next shiver...come on Zoch...get with teh program.
  • + 2
 fox 40s , would never switch to these
  • + 1
 love it, i think that if fox is deciding to go inverted its for a good reason, leave it to the pro's that know whats up!
  • + 1
 gross... i always hated inverted forks. but the proto of this just looks nasty. yes i know... they feel amazing and whatnot.
  • - 1
 no!!!.....fox 40 is the best but i don't like inverted fork.... hmmmmm or maybe fox company should release two forks in LBS one is inverted and the other is not inverted hmmm GOD BLESSBig Grin
  • - 1
 no!!!.....fox 40 is the best but i don't like inverted fork.... hmmmmm or maybe fox company should release two forks in LBS one is inverted and the other is not inverted hmmm GOD BLESSBig Grin
  • + 1
 watched gee smash a run out @ us open, that fork puts dorado to shame.. fox is changing the game!
  • + 1
 bet you havent ridden a dorado
  • + 1
 Why did Gee on do one run on the new fork? Wonder if its too proto for him to race on.
  • - 1
 no!!!.....fox 40 is the best but i don't like inverted fork.... hmmmmm or maybe fox company should release two forks in LBS one is inverted and the other is not inverted hmmm GOD BLESSBig Grin
  • + 1
 Everyone go and buy some old Shivers on Ebay then stick em back on for twice as much!
  • + 1
 fox just turned gay making these forks!!! mon the rockshox boxxer! Wink
  • + 1
 Badasss fork! hope they decide to make it to production
  • + 1
 Not keen on inverted forks.
  • + 1
 is there a video of him riding it ?
  • + 1
 Upsidedown sack ! 40's rulez
  • + 1
 I knew my shivas would come back into fashion...
  • + 1
 not only dorados now, when i can i get one?
  • + 5
 There is not Only Dorados.
Is also one model of the Japanese brand Kowa. The 200 GF model.
40 mm Kashima coated (yes Kowa suspension have that coating technology for 11 years now) stanchions, Air pressure, Rebound, High & Low compression adjusters and stepless Travel adjustment from 10 to 200 mm to never again scratch stanchions when you are shuttling your bike up to the hill.
www.pinkbike.com/photo/6566619
www.pinkbike.com/photo/6214934
  • + 3
 Kowa has been making moto forks longer than most bike companies have been around. any one remeber the honda RN01 (oh how i drooled) that was Kowa front and back. And when honda decided they had their fun, they left. Sad day to me.

Real Riders Ride Red.
  • + 1
 maybe it was showa, but regardless, Kowa been around
  • + 2
 Kowa is a total different company than Showa
  • + 2
 A friend of mine used to ride Avalanche DHF 7.5 before selling his bike. That thing was a bit heavy, but the performance was... Simply the best. Plushest fork I've ever ridden, absorbed just everything (that also means brake bumps) and never had any problems with sealy or anything in two years.
www.avalanchedownhillracing.com/dhf7fork.html
  • + 1
 I'm happy with my Girvin Vector forks.
  • + 1
 Girvin PDS system was the king in its time !!
  • + 1
 Good news: great technology!
Bad news: Looks Fugly!
  • + 1
 Nobody has mentioned unsprung weight yet?
  • + 1
 they are jst like mx forks
  • + 1
 I'll stick to my regular 40's :L
  • + 1
 money is already put aside for those
  • - 1
 I like the idea, but the look of inverted forks just looks ugly. I'm sure the functionality is great but I want some bling with my bike if i'm dropping almost 2k..
  • + 2
 how many other people run inverted forks?
not many
that in itself makes it bling
  • + 3
 dorados are the epitome of bling
  • + 0
 i guess some people would rather huge golden stanchions than colorful graphics :/
  • + 0
 wow, i cant believe you actually care about looks to that extent, is this a fucking fashion show, or an extreme sport. Unbelievable.
  • + 1
 they are basicly the same as the manitou invert forks
  • + 1
 Is that also a new conti tire? Something like a HighRoller?
  • + 1
 TBH I'm not a fan of inverted forks, but this one looks pretty sweet!
  • + 3
 is that because it has fox on it?!
  • + 1
 Probably, it's pretty ugly though
  • + 2
 SO FUCKING SICK
  • + 0
 nope
  • + 1
 cant wait to they hit the market wounder what price they going to be at?
  • + 1
 Does any one know if there was any follow up on this idea?
  • + 1
 I think they will be kool... I loved my old shivers.
  • + 1
 no forks like fox
  • + 1
 That would be sick
  • + 1
 NO. f*ck that.
  • + 1
 Oh god!
  • + 0
 holy shit holy shit holy shit awesome!!!! Big Grin
  • + 1
 they are very very ugly
  • + 1
 Looks pretty sick Smile
  • + 1
 WTF :O
  • + 1
 Pretty Sweet
  • + 1
 about time
  • + 0
 honestly ... I do not like, but it's only a prototype...
  • + 1
 Finally!!!
  • + 1
 YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • - 1
 fu*king gay manitou are the worst fox so why would a good company like fox copy them geeezz
  • - 1
 lol, i doubt you've tried a dorado..
  • + 0
 what the fu*k is a dorado
the only dorado i know is a fish and that has nothing to do with this
  • - 1
 the dorado is the inverted fork made by manitou
  • + 0
 oh, and manitous are bad ther break easly and they don't work as well i would rather take any shock made by rock shok than the best manitou
  • + 1
 pretty much everything you just said was wrong
  • + 2
 so what would you wrather have boxxers or the best manitou
  • + 1
 yes, i currently ride a 2010 manitou dorado pro, i came off a 2010 boxxer wc, and before that i rode a older boxxer, and a fox 40, the dorado blows them all away
  • + 1
 keep wishing dumb a**
  • + 0
 any one who would sell boxxers for dorados is got to be mentaly retarted
  • + 1
 i aint wishing and i aint a dumbass, betcha im faster down a hill then you, stop trying to act like you know everything and go ride your clapped out Kona
  • + 3
 well... i just watched one of your so called "downhill videos"..... and im sorry but you are truely a pathetic person...... im pretty sure after that little video i have lost all the little respect for you that i once had..... fu*k you sir fu*k you
  • + 1
 i agree with pspoons, manitou dorado is a gay fork, this fork is probably better made because its fox but it's still gay....
  • + 1
 pspoons cant say shit cos he rides marzochii the worst of all...but fox is the best
  • + 0
 im pretty sure rock shox is the best.... i would loose respect for rock shox if they made an inverted fork...but they wont because they know the design sucks. but i guess fox didnt know that
  • + 1
 i agree the desighn sucks but fox is still better
  • + 0
 rock shox is so much better
  • + 1
 lmfao your soo stupid...you only like it cos coastal crew does....if they liked fox soo would u...i garuntee that
  • + 1
 Deffinatley..... Pfff. I've always loved rock shox, it's becuase there the best quality suspension company. Not because of the coastal crew
  • + 1
 rookie, and pspoons you are the most ridiculously stupid pieces of shit, I can't even believe what I'm reading its so pathetic, first of all the inverted fork design is probably much superior. Have you looked at any modern motocross bikes thats the most common design. Besides that you fucks are biased towards the companies shit you ride for and haven't even tried anything else.... Dorado is amazing. btw rookie you are from the coast, your a bitch. HAHAHA conner, I have actually seen these kids ride I'm serious they fuckin blow, I just watched your video, some nice shredding this is so funny man
  • + 1
 Thanks dude lol
  • + 1
 chris i just watched your video and for 16 you can"t ride a bike for shit
  • + 1
 a fork for a 29" maybe?
  • + 1
 its about time....
  • - 1
 Never been a fan of inverted forks... I guess they just look ugly
  • + 1
 ride one and it'll change your mind, thats what i did
  • + 0
 stick to fox 40s
  • + 1
 dont knock what you havent tried
  • + 0
 foxatou
  • - 2
 FOX FOX FOX FOX FOX.... NO... STOP IT!
  • - 1
 Fugly. That is all.
  • - 1
 that is ugly
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