I never understood this , I often look at my raced out 450 with FI and the whole 9 .... then i look at my friggen mountain bike that costs more then the dirtbikes now worth and think to myself ...... dafuq's goin on here?
this is the greatest mystery of mtb industy. shit half the brands don't even have sane rear suspension designs but the prices are omfg.
seeing the video about trek's hq explains some stuff though.
Technology and parts list on a dirtbike outweights a MTB by far aswell .... i just dont understand why MTB's are SO overpriced... But we buy them though! .... f*ck me, do we ever buy them
motocross/dirtbikes is a much, much larger market than high end mountain bikes. Think about how many dirtbikes are sold in California alone compared to your average downhill bike.
Partly because of supply/demand and partly because decent mtb parts have to be incredibly strong for their weight, even lower-end parts. Where as parts for a dirt bike can be made slightly cheaper in comparison because A) you don't have to pedal it, meaning weight isn't quite as much of an issue and B) Because dirt bike parts are churned out of factories almost 24/7!
DrSanchez is right, dirtbiking is a much larger industry worldwide and has been around much longer than downhill MTB. The smaller the production the higher to cost of production, r&d, etc. and smaller profit margins so they need to charge much more/bike to stay in business.
weight in the moto world is actually really important. Plus, if you look at the 3-5 year development cycle (lol pun) of completely new bikes and engines, there is quite a lot of high end materials and engineering that go into a dirtbike. You can buy a YZ250 with a ti spring ($600) for about $8000 brand new, sometimes less. Then if you look at a modern 4 stroke racing engine, those are essentially Formula 1 engines on a smaller scale. You can still buy that for the price of a DH bike.
@DrSanchez yeah no doubt weight is important in both sports, but if you add a kilo's worth of low end parts to a dh bike and a mx bike, you're going to notice the kilo a whole lot more on the lighter dh bike. That's a crude analogy obviously, but you get where im coming from. Same with any sport though I guess. Mainly to do with how small-scale mtb's R&D is in comparison with dirt bikes, especially if you compare the size of Yamaha vs Specialized, for example
Another part of the seemingly inflated cost may be in specialization. On a V10 (that being this thread's example; any other high-end bike would fit just as well), very, very few of the parts are made by the same company. The suspension, wheels, tires, cockpit components, saddle, and yes, the frame, are all made by different companies, whereas on most kinds of motorcycles, the parts would mostly be made by one conglomerate, if not by one corporation. Specialization in economics often yields large gains for both of the producers as well as the consumer, and this principle is in play in the cost of mountain bikes, though it is difficult to perceive. Since these companies have relatively (to motorcycle producers) small budgets and small profits, specialization ensures that the parts on modern mountain bikes are as high-performance as possible, at the lowest possible (or even PLAUSIBLE) net development cost to both companies. However, though this manifests as a higher consumer cost compared to motorcycle parts, it also results in much higher relative performance. Remember, while a standard dirtbike might cost significantly less than a V10, a top-spec V10 is pro level kit - you could hand the bike to Greg Minnaar and he would be able to ride it at his maximum with minimal modification. So, as much as we love bikes, we aren't necessarily comparing apples-to-apples... because we, as average consumers, are able to buy the bicycle equivalent of Formula 1 at our local shop.
So what if motorbike would be built as a downhill bike? With the same weight/reliability ratio... Hum... considering factory racing motorbike weight, I don't think this ratio can explain our mountainbike price. IMO, mountainbike are overpriced.
mx guys go really big geer then mtb ofcourse sure this is freeride reminds me of the crusty demons, no doubt they risk their lives like mtbers do but the rare deaths probably occur more on onderotated backflips wish i could fly like that only need an mx and a terrain and a car and a trailer and a...if i could do half of that in jumpimg would already be amazing i guess in emerica the u.s.e evertying is possible ..]
The reason DH Bikes are so expensive is the technology! All DH bikes have what is called a Gravity Processing Accelerator or GPA for short. It is an invisible force that sits between the down tube and the top tube. Super technical stuff...WAY ahead of its time....And I really can't talk about the rest....or I would have to kill all of you!
The biggest driving factor behind cost comparison ion this case is Supply and Demand. Biking is a much smaller field of customers in comparison to MX. So if you have an order of raw material to fill for 100,000 bike frames versus 1,000,000 MX frames (these numbers are in in no way accurate!) the cast per lb of material goes down with quantity, the labor goes down because the process has more opportunity to be refined as well. While both sports utilize technology that amazing. We are not buying bikes that are so space aged they warrant an extra % of money just because they are cool. To accompany these lower sales in our industry comes increased overhead, salesman, owners, utilities. Their affect on the cost of the product impact more because their shops don't turn out as much, but they still need to cover as much ground as large mx companies as well. You quantify this all pretty easily. How many dudes at your highschool that rode MX, have ever owned some type of MX bike. Now how many dudes at that same school ride DH or have ever even heard of it? At my school the ratio was 28:1 ( school project)
@dwilson357 is bang on. Plus, I like to add that dirtbikes have a much lower margin that mtb's. Motorcycle stores make a lot of their coin from repairs, parts and accessories. Bicycle shops do also, but the margins on bicycles tend to be higher.
I'd like to add that in Canada all the bicycles and parts for them are coming into the country through a distributer who ads on his huge charge on top before your LBS. The only bikes that are sold here without going through the distributer are the Ghost bikes sold by MEC which are a reasonable price. I shop online at 1/3 of the cost of our bike shops because I don't like getting ripped off by our system here in Canada. Eventually the greed of the distributer will kill off allot of Canadian bike shops.
That's why I ride a Glory, I'd like to support US bike companies but my wallet and more importantly my wife say no to a $3000+ dh frame. Because at the end of the day i'd rather get some booty!
I just built up my moto and this is my observation: Where in the hell do you find cast steel on a mtn bike anymore? Everything HAS to be CNC'd or forged aluminum, if not carbon. Everything is machined and radiused to get every last bit of material out. Just look at our dropouts and crowns. KTM's still have steel frames and many components still resemble the cast or stamped, grainy, chunks of steel that we associate with automotive components. I looked at my moto's Marzocchi fork and just the thru-axle itself would be rejected by the mtn bike community. Mtn bikers have grown to have a much higher scrutiny on fit/finish and weight, therefore more expensive production/materials. CNC'd, anodized components may adorn some motos, but their dull, grey and bulky calipers look far from the eye candy of even a Deore caliper. It's not unusual for moto owners to ride OEM wheels for years(or the life of the bike) with their thick, unbutted spokes but we kill our lightweight wheels all the time. FYI, the first carbon bar has just entered the moto enduro world. Don't get me wrong, I love both types of bikes.
Seriously stop comparing mx bikes to mtb's, I have worked as a mechanic in both bicycle and motorbike service centres, you cannot compare a top level mtb to a stock mx bike, its entirely wrong! - take for instance a $10k V10 and a $3k Specialized status... in the hands of any rider, the status will perform at 90%+ the level of the V10, that extra few percentage in increase, the carbon components and higher tier parts, are what cost the extra $7k, they are not $7k worth of improvements by any means considering the cost of a Status, but thats what you pay for elite race level stuff.
In the same way, $10k 450 mx bike equates more to a $3k mtb - a top level elite mx race bike will be more like $40k+, a lot more than a top level dh bike! Realistically Mx and mtb simply don't compare in any way, shape or form; the industries and market are entirely different.
CTD07 that's not really accurate dude. A $40k mx bike is a hugely customized motorbike. Meaning, you can not buy it off the showroom floor. You are talking a pro race bike with one off factory parts.
In reality, your comparison would be more like comparing a TTR230 to a YZ450F. Yea, you can do most things on a TTR230 (even though I wouldn't recommend it) but the YZ450F would be much more capable in the hands of a good rider.
...and if we are chest thumping, well I've raced both DH and MX quite extensively.
i firmly believe james doerfling and garett buehler could ride all of those lines if they had mtb-appropriate run-ins and maybe slightly steeper landings. just sayin.
still super impressive, and very entertaining.
Ahah, next gen riders maybe !
We have a huge improvement in MTB skills this last decade. Let's wait for the future. Even if I don't think such a huge jump is feasible, but I would not bet against though !
ten years ago no one thought the things they are doing not to be possible, but they are! And the sport is still growing and improving at a quick pace, looking forward to the years to come
They have not made a mountain bike that can soak that kind of jump up without launching you off it after your suspention bottoms out so fast , not even close. Dirtbike valving and SIZE of the suspension is just on a completley different planet.
Love all the "no way you could do that on a MTB" comments. 10 years ago they said that about the back flip. 5 years ago they said that about the double back. Up until October 2013 nobody thought you could back flip a stunt like the Oakley Sender or a 72ft canyon gap...... Wonder what "you aren't gonna be able to do on a MTB" next......
I dont think this has anything to do with skill of a rider ..... i just simply do not think a mountain bike can absorb this kind of impact without either breaking , or bottoming out SO fast this it bucks you off it... look how rocked the guy was at 3:50min jump when he landed.... and a dirtbikes suspension is 4 times the size of a mountain bike.
OISkoolJake I agree with you in some respects (unrelated to my previous comment). Look up "Jaw Drop" from Josh Bender if you haven't already. That is a stunt I believe suits your argument pretty well.
motos have a throttle to keep shit levelled out on massive hits like these. mtb's do not and if you're nose heavy or in the back seat in the air ... better eject & start rollin down the windows.
Well that was really cool. MTB x 10. And people tell me I'M nuts! Just showed that to my wife (my point was how safe my mountain biking habit is). I didn't point out that the equipment isn't cheaper but overall prob still is cheaper when factor in the kinetic energy and expense of injury if you have a job.
Because there is not a downhill bike with the type of suspension and centrifugal stability that an MX bike does. Bigger, heavier tires want to stay standing upright more than lightweight MTB tires do, it's physics.
Then add in about 13" of the most plushly dampened moto-link suspension DESIGNED to be repeatedly bucked 150+ feet to whatever flat-Ish surface you land on.
The biggest gaps that the most GNARLY downhillers are doing right now; are about half the size of the hits in this film. The speed required to huck that distance simply cannot be attained with gravity & pedal power. Then add in the inability to control pitch in the air like an MX bike, roughly 40% less suspension, small MTB tires, weaker MTB wheels; the picture becomes pretty bleak for any aspiring benders trying to replicate this size hucking on a DH bike of any kind.
There's no reason an MTB can't do it. It's pure ballistics. The arguments above are about suspension. Well, if the landing matches the ballistics curve PERFECTLY and the rider is doing the PERFECT speed, there would be no need for suspension to absorb the landing.
You just need a MASSIVE steep landing, a perfectly still day, an accurate way of measuring speed at take-off, and someone that can compute the speeds and curves, and finally, someone with big balls.
The BALLLISTICS involved here, are not PHYSICALLY ATTAINABLE without the assist of an engine.
Gravity and pedal power is not going to huck you over 170 feet. Look at the basically vertical run into the canyon gap at rampage, with guys STILL coming up short. Then double the distance of the gap, and you're realizing how beyond the limit 170 feet is for a bicycle.
A quick google shows Jason Rennie needed 83mph(134kph) to jump 133 feet ramp to ramp, horizontal ramps. Even if Rennie's landing was lower than the takeoff, in the second second of being airborne he's going to fall 30 metres.
I'm no physicist but a life time of moto and mtb has taught me this, what the motor does is far more than allow for just air control and speed for the gaps. The motor allows them to power through the landings which keeps them accelerating in the right direction. This acceleration keeps the bike further in the sag and does not buck them over the bars. When you land that hard on a bike the wheels instantly want to slow down as they load into ground, meanwhile your body and bike want to keep moving forward which is why you commonly see freeride mtbers go OTB on landings. Not trying to say moto is better by any means(I left MX for MTB years ago), just stating fact. Regardless of whether or not you could get the speed, that final step down would be impossible to land on a mountain bike.
It's funny to see how insulted some people get when you tell them a certain jump is impossible on a MTB... the denial is so pathetic it's heart wrenching... we get you guys love MTBing and think the highest of the best riders but jesus, open your friggen eyes. A 165 ft. x 40 ft. drop is nothing remotely close to possible on a MTB. You might as well start saying the gaps slednecks send are completely feasible on skis or a board. That edit and last jump were insane, I cannot comprehend how good they are at judging speed/trajectory.
@scott-townes Well said ... I think its safe to say we all LOVE MTB , thats why we have accounts on PB. But lets be real here , there is just no comparison ... The argument that "Everyone said this couldnt be done 10 years ago" is also invalid because like MTB .... moto guys are also progressing and I cant even fathom what they will be doing on their motos in 10 years... they will always be one step ahead of MTB's as they progress , you think moto guys just sit around with their thumbs up their ass while everyone else is progressing? On that same note I just had a reality check when i came to the realisation that im arguing on the internet about Dirtbikes and MTB's....f*ck me.
You might have the speed when you hit the lip but you wouldn't carry it nearly as far. The dude on the moto is riding a 225 pound bullet that carries a huge amount of inertia and helps combat the wind resistance that is slowing the rider. When it comes to "how big is big?" mountain biking has a lot more in common with skiing and snowboarding than moto.
to clarify, I said doerfling and buehler because they live somewhere around where this is filmed (ish? canadian geography is not my strong suit) if I had to choose someone to go that big it'd be you, zink, because you are an animal.
Wow, I wasn't sure I'd ever really be too likely to side with Zink on anything, but listening to you morons make claims that something isn't possible when there's no valid reason given as to why it isn't is annoying to say the least. How many times has someone said something's not possible, because they're too f*cking stupid to do any critical thinking on the matter, just to then be proven wrong? This video provides a huge amount of evidence that this is possible on an FMB. All you need is a bit more speed to compensate for the reduced inertia & the extra 4" of travel may come in handy, but may not be necessary. What other limiting factors am I missing here that you armchair physicists can point out? There's a limit to the capabilities of anything, but MX is a lot closer to theirs than we are to ours considering the age difference between sports. Anything that can be done at 150 kph on an MX can probably be done at 170 kph on an FMB. Ass hats.
freeride-forever, where's the evidence to support it is possible? I mean your last sentence was a clear assumption based on nothing. We've seen past mtbers jump massive gaps and they have to go insanely fast for it and this jump is multiple times bigger than any jump previously done on a bike. As for people claiming past feats as impossible, could you point those out? Once you do, are they anything remotely close to this? I can't seem to recall anything like that because nothing done before comes close to touching how massive that moto gap is. But really, why are you getting angry anyways? It makes you look defensive over what's possible on a mtb which seems pretty childish.
Have you ever done 170kph on an mtb? ANY push bike is going to feel pretty bloody sketchy at those speeds unless its some custom made super slack high speed monster that won't go round corners.
Really guys? No I haven't gone that fast on an MTB, but an MX doesn't have any different geometry. Caroline "Curly" Curl ran 122 mph (yeah that's a chick by the way if her name didn't give that away) years & years ago on a bike that isn't even close to what we have now. Not a tow-in either. Google it. How about Markus Stockl?
scott, first of all, you mentioned the progress MX guys will make in the future as a defense to the argument that "Everyone said this couldn't be done 10 years ago". WTF does that have to do with what is possible on a bicycle at any given time? We're not comparing MX to FMB, are we? If Colin Winkelmann can jump a BMX 116', Maddo can jump an MX over 350' @ 105 mph, a f*cking chick can do 122 mph on a f*cking MTB & Jason Rennie holds the current record @ 134' then yeah we can sure as hell get a couple hun' out of a DH bike with the right run in & run out. Don't be so retarded. People said man wasn't "meant" to fly. That's sort of the same as what people like you are saying right now. FMB's can fly bud & they will. Care to bet against me? I'm not sure what happed with M&M but he was planning to break the current 134' record set by Jason Rennie by going 150'. History is full of doubters who've failed to look at and/or understand all of the supporting evidence for a hypothesis. You know like those morons that think evolution is nonsense?. Evolution is a continuous & slow process, but it happens to everything. MTBing is young by comparison & no I don't think we will ever be able to jump as far as an MX because we lack the inertia & the power. I'm saying we will have little trouble breaking the 200' barrier, especially if you make it a 30'-50' step down. Someone just has to step up & start working on it. I have no doubt the terrain is out there. There's too little MX influence in this sport. If we can get more Andreu Lacondeguys & Mike Mongomerys in here, you'll be very surprised at what's possible. If we had one guy as rowdy as Maddo, you'd shit your f*ckin' pants. Do you think Maddo's 100' drop isn't possible on an MTB just because we haven't come close yet? I bet you think a quad tailwhip isn't possible either just because BMX bikes are smaller & lighter & no one's done it on an MTB yet. Holy faaaaack!
Your first sentence shows that you refuse to actually understand what you're reading which makes me think the rest of what you're writing is equally as useless and stupid. Nice job on writing so much based off of a complete lack of reading comprehension... oh and when you compare a jump done on a dirtbike to if it's possible on a mtb, you have to compare the two... that doesn't mean what dirt bikers have done is proof of what's possible on a mtb, you idiot. Then again you seem to be completely messing around because no one can be that stupid so have fun.
What specifically, did I refuse to understand? I think you're the one that's confused about what I meant. When I read your posts I get the impression that arguing with you will be like arguing with a Christfag. I was talking about the progress you mentioned that MX will make in the future. Like you are arguing that we'll never catch them in terms of overall jump size. That's probably true, at least as far as distance goes. I thought this whole "debate" was about the possiblility of jumping hits the size of the ones in the video, mainly the one at the end? I'm seeing the claimed size of that hit to be 165' x 40'-60'. Mountain bikes have dropped farther than 40' already. 165' is not that far horizontally. We're almost there & you'd know that if you bothered to use the internet at your f*cking finger tips to check the information I just pointed out to you instead of deliberately trying to ignore it so you can avoid being proven wrong. Nice job addressing the points I made, you butt nut.
The other thing that you arm chair physicists & pussies (who've probably never dropped a bike more than 5' in your life & never will) seem to not understand is that, those large distances make bigger drops possible with run outs that aren't as steep. The faster you travel horizontally, the smoother any DH run out will be to land on. We CAN get the speed. GOOGLE GOOGLE GOOGLE!!! Take a bit of time to look up the things I pointed out, then come back & explain to me what physical principles (SPECIFICALLY) that I'm overlooking, PROVE that a gap only 30' feet farther than Jason Rennie's can't be done on an MTB, with a drop no larger or barely larger than the Oakley Sender.
Call me an idiot all you like after you deliver proof that the points I made are false/irrelevant. Until then, you'll just have to continue being the idiot here, OK?
Because it pops up on his dashboard and he has to click on it to make the yellow highlight go away you nugget.
Your calling other people unducated ? How about you check yourself , time for a reality check .... your the one trying to sell used bike tubes for $5 and a used chain for $25 ..... looks like your superior education got you far when at the age of 33 your trying to recoup the cost of a $10 bike tube.
Reading back in your posts ALL you do is talk shit , non stop ... honestly anyone reading this go have a look at this clowns previous posts and you will learn really quick that arguing with with guy is a lost cause. You mad at the world or something ?
Oh and your sweet 10 year old free ride videos that you posted 2 years ago are mediocre at best....I bet you still hang around those skate parks wearing baggy pants and a hoodie talking about how sweet you think you were back in the day don't you ?
On behalf of everyone who's dashboard keeps getting bumped because of your goofy ass posts STFU.
Now go on a huge rant using lots of swear words and name calling.... that's all your good at , I wont even give you the satisfaction of a reply. I hope you find something in life that makes you happy again , because i honestly feel sorry for you.
I don't go & read every thread where there's been a reply to a reply that I've replied to & say no one cares anymore, contradicting myself in the process. Obviously you care too, since you're one of the ones arguing against doing jumps like this. In fact I just noticed, it wasn't townes making that retarded "10 years from now" argument. IT WAS YOU!!!!! He made the claim that 165' x 40' isn't possible on an MTB & you supported him by saying that MX guys "don't sit around with their thumbs up their asses"? No wonder you're trying to attack me personally.
Time for a "reality check". I generally call people "stupid f*cking retards" if they don't know the difference between "your" & "you're". Go to school you twit. Attacking me in any way you thought you could has nothing to do with the argument going on here. Yeah my 10 year old videos are lame because you hate me because I'm an a*shole. At the same time, your page has nothing but some pictures of some overpriced contraption that you no doubt suck ass on. Doesn't even look like it's ever been ridden. Which might be why you have no clue what's possible on a bicycle.
The stuff I have for sale? Pull a few more straws bud. People have bought things that are arguably much less sellable than that. I forgot I even had the stuff up on here until some lame butt nut who needs a reason to attack someone he hates came along & could only find stupid, irrelevant things to rip. If I really cared about selling anything on here I wouldn't be such a dick to dumbasses like you.
You mean the education that took me 60 seconds to earn when I used Google to find proof that we can go fast enough to do jumps like this & proof that the farthest jump on an MTB is only 30' shorter than this? If you can't prove your point about jumping bikes, don't act like a desperate weenie by trying to redirect attention to anything you think you can point out as a flaw about me, just get lost. You only invalidate your case even more when you try to draw attention away from how you were just proven wrong.
Please everyone, go look at my other posts to see what an a*shole I am, because of course that totally discredits the facts I've pointed out on the topic discussed here. :/
^ Just to let you know, none of us are reading what you write because your first couple posts show you're just some aggro idiot with no clue of what you're talking about. How does it feel to completely waste your time writing out paragraphs worth of crap that no one reads? Keep on, keepin' on, you scum. Maybe one day someone will buy your used tubes... maybe...
No kidding, the fact kris is an amazing mtb'r too would make it pretty sweet, only guy i know who can tsunami/kiss of death a dh bike. Itd be a pretty rowdy edit
Man, these headcam shots looked as if it was a hang-gliding! And than BAAM, here comes the earth! You gotta have balls to fly like that, MTB looks so easy now...
Absolutely insane. Good to see moto guys with shovels putting some work in, I don't follow moto much but good to see them out scouting and hitting some natural-ish lines and sending HUUUUUGGGGEEE.
Am I the only one worried about the image this portrays? While this stuff is pretty rad, those bikes are going to split the silence and alert every hiker-wacko within earshot, where as a guy sending it on a bicycle probably couldn't be heard except for a few feet away. Not saying what these freeride-moto guys are doing is a illegal or even really a problem, just that it draws signicantly more attention to that style of sport (hucking off stuff).
you may very well be the only one who was thinking about that, after watching such a display.
most of us could give a rats ass what the sierra club would think, i saw that as the best possible use of that land that anyone could ever come up with
That's what the hikers say about us mountain bikers... totally wrong, right? It's just an issue of land, and I'm guessing that there is more than enough out in Kamloops. I ride my DH bike just outside of town, and my dirtbike 45 miles away. I get CONSIDERABLY more complaints on the DH bike than on my dirtbike. Why? Well, because I'm 45 miles away from the nearest person who isn't dirtbiking or hunting. It's the hunters (first and foremost) and the dirtbikers/4-wheelers that really keep land access open. Mountain biking just doesn't coverage enough mileage to keep land open.
Kris "boo" foster is absolutely killing it these days. The dude is so talented on anything 2 wheels. We both grew up in Chase BC outside of Kamloops and I remember him killing it in those days too. So stoked buddy such rad style
Awesome edit, reminds me of watching the Crusty series video's which was pretty much Moto Freeride all around the world. For those that can manage to snag a copy of "Expendable Youth" which came out in '98, you'll see an MX rider land the same drop Wade Simmons did for the cover of NWD 3 later on.
How do you predict the speed needed to hit those HUGE doubles and drops?! Seriously, that is some high speed and long distance to come up a meter short or long,. Also, the suspension on those MX's is insane, those huge drops and barely a headbob!
That was so confusing to watch. All I saw were classic Kamloops free-ride lines being sent by bikes.... that were noisier than I expected them to be. Such a sick vid, would LOVE to see a cross-over vid of these guys shredding with Hunter, Doerfling, et al.
ive been riding dirtbikes my whole life, recently switched to mountain bikes but i still have my raced out 450, nice to see mtn bikers give credit where its due, but any of you guys out there riding downhill can do this, the jumps might look big but on a dirtbike you can level yourself out by using brake or throttle, come off a jump on a mtn bike with the wrong angle and your goin down, you really get a sense of floating on the dirtbike and your speed really helps plushness. the biggest reason i switched to mountain bikes is because DEP wants your head if you ride one. we only have one legal place to ride in connecticut and you have to register your bike and pay taxes even though the riding area is only open for about 3 months in a year. if there were more places to ride i probably would have never got into mountain biking. even with an engine rebuild every now and again my dirtbike is still cheaper to own and maintain.
You can not compare a mountain bike with a motocross bike , the parts for a mtb are smaller so they need better materials and the process of building them is not in all terms the same . You have to think about the wight of the bike . Dirt bikes have an engine so the wight is not a prior concern despite mtb . Is the same thing as with computers ( smaller and powerful laptops cost much more than a desktop wich in size is BIG )
Well, this was awesome. However, as gnarly as these lines are, I can't help but think that modern professional MTB freeriding has a way of making everything seem a bit more graceful and less "Bender-y".
Just a matter of time before MTBs are doing it. Granted, it'll be like big wave surfing...some of the larger gaps will be done by tow-in. All in time.
Regardless, sick riding. props.
I may be the only one, but I feel like there is something wrong with this. Cool wilderness areas are for human powered fun. Motos have engines so they can have fun on level ground. No need to pollute beautiful areas like this.
Eric
Why cant everyone just enjoy it how they choose as long as its within reason and not tearing everything up? They don't make a trail any wider than a mtb and I would have very little options in my area if not for moto trails.
Plus we are paying for world cup ready bikes, James Stewarts mx bike Is 100,000 dollars plus! Not sure about The pros dh bikes but it sort of makes sense
Nope, but I'm sure if you wanted to propose some kind of ante upping scenario to the moto guys they'd be happy to shut you & Zink down with one 2X as big. This video is just one piece of evidence proving that mountain bikers still don't really have a f*cking clue what BIG really is. Even the commentator at Rampage stated he's sure there's been bigger flips in MX & you bet there sure as shit has. Adding a bit of a drop doesn't really make it all that different. It was actually a step down anyway since he needed a special ramp. We have a long way to go.
MMeehhh. Mtb boys at the top of our sport can throw down 90% of those lines. Other than the few super huge ones. The super huge ones are impressive. The rest is average. I am a mountain biker. Moto boys s*ck our d*cks. Not the other way around.
Would you care to explain how basic physics relates to how it's 'easier' to backflip an mx bike vs a MTB then? Could you also explain why these guys are pussies?
Right first off "lose the engines pussies" is quite clearly not meant to be taken in a literal sense, which you obviously know if you're anything other than a complete idiot. Secondly, watch the video again, look at how slowly he is travelling when he does that backflip. Could you replicate that on a DH bike at the same speed? Of course not, you wouldn't have anywhere near enough forward momentum. So, how come they can create enough momentum to do it on a MX bike? Ah yes, that would be the little burst of throttle as he hits the lip. So I've answered your question, now maybe you'd care to give an answer to mine? Or are you just going to answer a question with another question again? Maybe you need to slow down, give your brain a chance, understand what I said in the first place and then chill out!
Kes do you even understand what you said? Back flipping anything requires a huge amount of skill and confidence, imagine under rotating a flip on an mx bike going to hurt one hell of a lot if something of that weight was to land on you. Yes he did use a burst of throttle as he hit the lip to gain momentum, on an mtb it would be a case of pedalling in with enough speed to allow for the loss of momentum going up the ramp, the mx bike can accelerate up the ramp and actually gain speed so why would you go into the take off fast.
Jesus this is getting silly now! Yes i am fully aware of the skill and confidence required! My original comment was a jokey dig at motocross riders and nothing more! I have mates who ride MX who give me shit for riding push bikes which are 'for kids' and I give them shit for 'needing an engine, cos real men use pedals'! Calm down!
You guys know what @kes2903 means. You have to be %100 dialed in at take off on a push bike for any type of airborne stunt, there is no forgiveness. With motto you have a "chance" to correct your take off. Have you guys not noticed the "absurd" amount of angle/direction changes MX bikes make in the air? They can do that because they have engines. If you had the balls to do a flip with either on the same big air jump. A push bike is way harder. Kelly McGarry's Rampage back flip could be done by a motto guy, a lot easier.
IMO, mountainbike are overpriced.
sure this is freeride reminds me of the crusty demons,
no doubt they risk their lives like mtbers do
but the rare deaths probably occur more on onderotated backflips
wish i could fly like that only need an mx and a terrain and a car and a trailer and a...if i could do half of that in jumpimg would already be amazing
i guess in emerica the u.s.e evertying is possible ..]
- take for instance a $10k V10 and a $3k Specialized status... in the hands of any rider, the status will perform at 90%+ the level of the V10, that extra few percentage in increase, the carbon components and higher tier parts, are what cost the extra $7k, they are not $7k worth of improvements by any means considering the cost of a Status, but thats what you pay for elite race level stuff.
In the same way, $10k 450 mx bike equates more to a $3k mtb - a top level elite mx race bike will be more like $40k+, a lot more than a top level dh bike! Realistically Mx and mtb simply don't compare in any way, shape or form; the industries and market are entirely different.
In reality, your comparison would be more like comparing a TTR230 to a YZ450F. Yea, you can do most things on a TTR230 (even though I wouldn't recommend it) but the YZ450F would be much more capable in the hands of a good rider.
...and if we are chest thumping, well I've raced both DH and MX quite extensively.
I think there is some space to go bigger... But with specific material (like a good old Karpiel with a monter triple), and some protection...
Then add in about 13" of the most plushly dampened moto-link suspension DESIGNED to be repeatedly bucked 150+ feet to whatever flat-Ish surface you land on.
The biggest gaps that the most GNARLY downhillers are doing right now; are about half the size of the hits in this film. The speed required to huck that distance simply cannot be attained with gravity & pedal power. Then add in the inability to control pitch in the air like an MX bike, roughly 40% less suspension, small MTB tires, weaker MTB wheels; the picture becomes pretty bleak for any aspiring benders trying to replicate this size hucking on a DH bike of any kind.
A quick google shows Jason Rennie needed 83mph(134kph) to jump 133 feet ramp to ramp, horizontal ramps. Even if Rennie's landing was lower than the takeoff, in the second second of being airborne he's going to fall 30 metres.
Step One: Call Cam Zink
Step Two: Bring him to the gap
Step Three: Zink somehow finds a way to flip it.
Step Four: We all stop arguing about a topic that frankly is going absolutely nowhere.
But by all means; if ignorance is bliss...
that clip of the rider going up the steep, faster than we go down........
jus sayin
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markus_St%C3%B6ckl
The other thing that you arm chair physicists & pussies (who've probably never dropped a bike more than 5' in your life & never will) seem to not understand is that, those large distances make bigger drops possible with run outs that aren't as steep. The faster you travel horizontally, the smoother any DH run out will be to land on. We CAN get the speed. GOOGLE GOOGLE GOOGLE!!! Take a bit of time to look up the things I pointed out, then come back & explain to me what physical principles (SPECIFICALLY) that I'm overlooking, PROVE that a gap only 30' feet farther than Jason Rennie's can't be done on an MTB, with a drop no larger or barely larger than the Oakley Sender.
Call me an idiot all you like after you deliver proof that the points I made are false/irrelevant. Until then, you'll just have to continue being the idiot here, OK?
Are you having trouble reconciling your uneducated & dumb as f*ck 16 year old opinion with cold hard facts? If you don't care, then f*ck off.
Your calling other people unducated ? How about you check yourself , time for a reality check .... your the one trying to sell used bike tubes for $5 and a used chain for $25 ..... looks like your superior education got you far when at the age of 33 your trying to recoup the cost of a $10 bike tube.
Reading back in your posts ALL you do is talk shit , non stop ... honestly anyone reading this go have a look at this clowns previous posts and you will learn really quick that arguing with with guy is a lost cause. You mad at the world or something ?
Oh and your sweet 10 year old free ride videos that you posted 2 years ago are mediocre at best....I bet you still hang around those skate parks wearing baggy pants and a hoodie talking about how sweet you think you were back in the day don't you ?
On behalf of everyone who's dashboard keeps getting bumped because of your goofy ass posts STFU.
Now go on a huge rant using lots of swear words and name calling.... that's all your good at , I wont even give you the satisfaction of a reply. I hope you find something in life that makes you happy again , because i honestly feel sorry for you.
The stuff I have for sale? Pull a few more straws bud. People have bought things that are arguably much less sellable than that. I forgot I even had the stuff up on here until some lame butt nut who needs a reason to attack someone he hates came along & could only find stupid, irrelevant things to rip. If I really cared about selling anything on here I wouldn't be such a dick to dumbasses like you.
You mean the education that took me 60 seconds to earn when I used Google to find proof that we can go fast enough to do jumps like this & proof that the farthest jump on an MTB is only 30' shorter than this? If you can't prove your point about jumping bikes, don't act like a desperate weenie by trying to redirect attention to anything you think you can point out as a flaw about me, just get lost. You only invalidate your case even more when you try to draw attention away from how you were just proven wrong.
Please everyone, go look at my other posts to see what an a*shole I am, because of course that totally discredits the facts I've pointed out on the topic discussed here. :/
it'd be rad to see a joint mtb/fmx edit in kamloops!!
in case you haven't seen it www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDmBe_21cJ4
No? Then you haven't seen evevrything!
If it was the UK you'd have the local Police and Health & Safety turning up and shutting down your fun within minutes.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfTK0lvH2JM