Sea Otter Preview: Giant's Carbon Anthem X 29er Debut
Giant USA took its most popular selling XC suspension bike, the aluminum Anthem X 29er, and recreated it in carbon. Well, at least the front section is carbon. The swingarm is produced from heavily manipulated aluminum. The finished product looks stunning, reportedly weighs less than 23 pounds, and a day of riding the Anthem X Advanced 29er in Southern California's coastal mountain trails proved it can shred as well as it looks. The new Anthem shares the same World Cup winning geometry as its aluminum 2011 predecessor and is outfitted in SRAM XX components. Asking price for the Advanced X 29er is $8900 USD, and if that makes your Visa card shiver in your wallet, Giant offers two aluminum versions priced at $4650 and $3300. Giant's new 29ers will start showing up at your LBS around May this year.
![Anthem X Advanced 29er side shot]()
Giant places the Anthem X Advanced as its premier World-Cup racing platform. With only 4 inches of travel, Schwalbe 2.1-inch tires and a steepish 71.3-degree head angle, Giant's carbon 29er is a troll for the Spandex and Strava XC racerboy crowd - but a little suspension goes a long way on a big-wheel bike and that, combined with its natural straight-line stability and rough-ground roll-over advantages, elevate the Anthem X chassis to trailbike status.
Why even consider an Anthem X Advanced? Most Pinkbike riders campaign on bikes that are ten pounds heavier than the carbon Anthem's claimed 23-pounds. If you already owned a trophy truck, Giant's carbon Anthem X would be the equivalent of adding a Subaru Impreza WRX to your stable. Two completely different styles of shred, both at the highest level. Giant invited a few devoted big-bike riders to the Anthem launch for a 27-mile singletrack epic with over 4000 feet of climbing and it was all smiles at the end. The WRX reference is spot on - the new Giant eagerly responds to the pedals, climbs with ease, carries a lot of speed in the tight stuff, and can be unleashed on descents that would overwhelm most small-wheel bikes in this class. Its steering is surgically precise and in the hands of a good bike-handler, the Anthem X Advanced 29er is more like a weapon than a bicycle.
Anthem Frame Highlights
Giant has more composite frame experience than any major bike maker worldwide, including its own facility for making the pre-impregnated carbon material used to mold frame components. The carbon front section is molded in one piece, which is the optimum method. In places where impact resistance is important, special resin is blended with the fabric and extra layers are added. Case in point: the reinforced down tube is not protected with a plastic shield - 'not necessary.' say Giant's engineers.
![Frame details]()
Overdrive Steerer System: While Giant specs its Overdrive steerer tubes with a larger, 1.25-inch stem clamp, its tapered head tube fits any tapered steerer and headset so Anthem owners are free to adopt future fork technology whether or not the suspension maker offers an Overdrive version.
PressFit Bottom bracket: Down low, the 'Powercore' bottom bracket is a press-in affair, with a wider-is-better 86-millimeter shell. SRAM and Shimano both support it.
Maestro Suspension: Giant uses a tiny shock, a RockShox Monarch RT3 in this case, driven by its Maestro dual-link suspension. Giant struck gold with Maestro, as it has proven over time to strike a keen balance between pedaling firmness and ground holding smoothness. Pivot points run on quality, Japanese-made ball bearings, which make a difference in the long run.
![RC descending]()
Aluminum Swingarm: Giant's decision to produce the 100-millimeter-travel swingarm in aluminum was based upon the fact that any weight savings would be "negligible." Given that Giant's aluminum manufacturing methodology is second to none (they begin with custom alloys and produce heavily manipulated frame tubing), the new Anthem's triangulated swingarm matches the stiffness and weight of its theoretical carbon counterpart - and offers the customer a whopping, $800 price reduction. Giant waffled at the probability of a carbon rear end in the future though, leaving that door wide open.
Sharp frame numbers: The medium-sized Anthem X I rode had a 23.4 inch top tube - on the long side for some, but the extra length helped to moderate the bike's 71.3-degree head angle by keeping the rider's weight back a bit. Seat angle was a standard XC 73 degrees, while the chainstay was a bit long at 18.3 inches. The bottom bracket was not excessively low, nor does it need to be with the 29er's axle substantially higher than the bottom bracket centerline. This was a plus, as I never banged the cranks. Typical 26er XC bikes have excessively low bottom brackets to stabilize cornering and can be annoying through the rocks. Part of the Anthem's numerical magic results in a relatively compact 43.5 inch wheelbase, which places the rider squarely in the middle of the bike - a plus when change-ups on the trail require quick reactions. Quick reactions and big wheels are rarely used in the same sentence, but Giant rewrites that rule. A possible, though minor, error was the carbon Anthem's copycat straight top tube, which is not a requirement for a molded carbon bike, and it elevates the medium-sized bike's stand-over height to 30.3 inches. Sizes are offered in Small, Medium, Large and X-large.
![Lots of bikes]()
Component Check
Giant's World Cup race team is running SRAM components, so the Anthem X Advantage gets the full Monty, highlighted by the XX two-by drivetrain. The 26 x 39 gearing is perfect for racing and seasoned legs, with just enough low gear to scratch up techy climbs and a big-wheel-boosted top gear that can handle fireroad-screamer descents.RockShox does the work up front with a 15QR axle SID RCT3 fork. Brakes were SRAM World Cup XX with 160mm rotors - strong stoppers, but we noticed that on long descents, the ventilated discs would begin to make scrubbing noises when heated to the edge of their comfort zones. Cable guides are included for a dropper post, but Giant's house-brand carbon seatpost fills in until that time, topped by an ironing board disguised as a Fizik Tundra 2 saddle - comfortable in one position, but nowhere else. Stiffness rules the charts, so Giant specs its DH-looking Contact SLR Carbon stem with house-brand low-rise carbon handlebars. Tires were narrow, 2.1 inch Schwalbe Racing Ralphs - faster than your mom on the trail, but not all that durable, and a bit sketchy on the fast, hard-pack corners common to the Santa Monica Mountain range.
![Anthem X Advanced 29er 0 1 and 2]()
First dual-suspension 29er for women
Inspired by Super D and Enduro ripper Kelli Emmet, Giant tweaked the Anthem to produce a female-specific chassis, including a curved top tube for a lower-stand-over height, a slightly taller head tube (not sure how that figures as 29ers are already too high) and lower gearing highlight the Anthem X 29 0 W, in addition to some 'custom-tuned' components like lighter wheels slightly narrower handlebars and a female-friendly saddle. The weight of the top-drawer Anthem X 29 0 W is pegged at under 24 pounds, which is quite nice for an aluminum-framed XC machine.
![Sweet Anthem X W0 side shot]()
Up front, the RockShox Reba RL fork uses a standard-dimension tapered head tube (1 1/8 x 1/12 inch) instead of Giant's more rigid 'Overdrive' steerer which sports a larger diameter 1 1/4 inch upper section. Unfortunately, women will not get the Advanced X carbon front triangle, as the Anthem X OW models are aluminum only (Shhh, brr brr brr brr, baaaah). The better angle is that Giant is producing its most popular suspension bike directly to the women's market and in a configuration that has proven to win at the World Cup level. That should make a lot of girls happy on the trail, which hopefully will inspire a carbon model soon.
![Girls having fun]()
Giant Wheel Sneak Peek
As an additional treat, Giant used the debut of its 2013 Anthem X Advanced to give us a chance to see and ride its first carbon wheelset - the P-XCR. Designed at Giant, the 1430 gram wheelset is produced at DT/Swiss, using the Swiss wheel-maker's composite rim manufacturing system, star-ratchet freehub and unparalleled spoke technology. Giant's input created new hub flange metrics with 90-degree spoke exits and the drive-side rear spokes are offset two millimeters outwards to optimize wheel stiffness under power.
![Bill Miller goes over the fine points of Giant s new wheels]()
'DT Swiss is an ideal partner for Giant's wheel program,' Says team leader Bill Miller. 'Giant is an industry leader in composite manufacturing, and our guys insisted that we could make the wheels in-house. The advantages DT Swiss brings to our wheel program is that everything is produced under one roof, so communication and quality control are simply not an issue.'
The 1430 gram wheelset features a standard XC 19mm inner diameter and is molded with a tubeless ready tire sealing profile. The rim still needs to be taped to be used tubeless, however. An additional benefit of the DT/Swiss connection is that the quick release rear wheel can be converted to a 142/12mm through axle, or use the DT Swiss 9mm QR through-axle skewer system. The front axle is QR 15, and Giant's Bill Miller was pretty sure that his axle design was compatible with DT Swiss' quick-release caps should anyone want to use a standard-dropout fork Giant's P-XCR wheels will not be ready until Summer 2012, and in the meantime, first-production Anthems will be equipped with SRAM's new Rise Carbon 60 29er wheels. Prices are not yet set.
How They Ride
With a days' ride on Giant's wheels, I can report that they are laterally rigid to the point where I did not think of my wheels at all during the ride. Granted, there were only a few sections that would actually put a wheelset in danger, but more importantly, I didn't experience any windup or chatter on high-speed fire-road drifters - the corners that often defeat less-than-rigid 29er frames and wheels. Acceleration, the litmus test of XC wheels was crisp, especially for 29er hoops. I never mounted a tire, and our test wheels used tubes, so the utilitarian aspects of Giant's new rim design are yet to be discovered. I wished that Giant had dared to make its premier carbon rims wider than old-school XC hoops. A more secure footprint would have made the bike way more fun at speed. In Giant's defense, XC gram-counting wiener-boys who are its potential customers would be reluctant to trade the promise of significantly better handling and better tubeless performance in exchange for a negligible weight increase - but the future is definitely wider.
![RC and An Lee Giant s Global Marketing Director who belted out 27 miles and 4300 feet of climbing with a smile.]()
Sharing a similar profile and same geometry as the World Cup winning 2011 Anthem X, the carbon front-section Anthem X Advanced 29er is 180 grams lighter and about ten-percent stiffer.
Giant places the Anthem X Advanced as its premier World-Cup racing platform. With only 4 inches of travel, Schwalbe 2.1-inch tires and a steepish 71.3-degree head angle, Giant's carbon 29er is a troll for the Spandex and Strava XC racerboy crowd - but a little suspension goes a long way on a big-wheel bike and that, combined with its natural straight-line stability and rough-ground roll-over advantages, elevate the Anthem X chassis to trailbike status.
Why even consider an Anthem X Advanced? Most Pinkbike riders campaign on bikes that are ten pounds heavier than the carbon Anthem's claimed 23-pounds. If you already owned a trophy truck, Giant's carbon Anthem X would be the equivalent of adding a Subaru Impreza WRX to your stable. Two completely different styles of shred, both at the highest level. Giant invited a few devoted big-bike riders to the Anthem launch for a 27-mile singletrack epic with over 4000 feet of climbing and it was all smiles at the end. The WRX reference is spot on - the new Giant eagerly responds to the pedals, climbs with ease, carries a lot of speed in the tight stuff, and can be unleashed on descents that would overwhelm most small-wheel bikes in this class. Its steering is surgically precise and in the hands of a good bike-handler, the Anthem X Advanced 29er is more like a weapon than a bicycle.
Anthem Frame Highlights
Giant has more composite frame experience than any major bike maker worldwide, including its own facility for making the pre-impregnated carbon material used to mold frame components. The carbon front section is molded in one piece, which is the optimum method. In places where impact resistance is important, special resin is blended with the fabric and extra layers are added. Case in point: the reinforced down tube is not protected with a plastic shield - 'not necessary.' say Giant's engineers.
(Clockwise) Giant's Maestro dual link suspension makes good use of the Anthem X's minimal 100mm of rear wheel travel. The frame's 86mm-wide bottom bracket shell uses press-fit bearings. The aluminum swingarm is stiff enough to use standard quick release dropouts. Post type caliper mounts save a little weight. Giant's Overdrive tapered steerer system uses an oversized 1.25-inch upper section. A two-bolt seat clamp ensures that the carbon tube is not over-stressed.
Overdrive Steerer System: While Giant specs its Overdrive steerer tubes with a larger, 1.25-inch stem clamp, its tapered head tube fits any tapered steerer and headset so Anthem owners are free to adopt future fork technology whether or not the suspension maker offers an Overdrive version.
PressFit Bottom bracket: Down low, the 'Powercore' bottom bracket is a press-in affair, with a wider-is-better 86-millimeter shell. SRAM and Shimano both support it.
Maestro Suspension: Giant uses a tiny shock, a RockShox Monarch RT3 in this case, driven by its Maestro dual-link suspension. Giant struck gold with Maestro, as it has proven over time to strike a keen balance between pedaling firmness and ground holding smoothness. Pivot points run on quality, Japanese-made ball bearings, which make a difference in the long run.
Agressive XC numbers combined with balanced geometry and big wheels make the Anthem X Advanced 29er a fast trailbike. The famous Backbone trail offers up a wide variety of treats from slick-rock crawls to super-drifter fire-road descents.(Careful though, the posted speed limit is 15 mph.)
Aluminum Swingarm: Giant's decision to produce the 100-millimeter-travel swingarm in aluminum was based upon the fact that any weight savings would be "negligible." Given that Giant's aluminum manufacturing methodology is second to none (they begin with custom alloys and produce heavily manipulated frame tubing), the new Anthem's triangulated swingarm matches the stiffness and weight of its theoretical carbon counterpart - and offers the customer a whopping, $800 price reduction. Giant waffled at the probability of a carbon rear end in the future though, leaving that door wide open.
Sharp frame numbers: The medium-sized Anthem X I rode had a 23.4 inch top tube - on the long side for some, but the extra length helped to moderate the bike's 71.3-degree head angle by keeping the rider's weight back a bit. Seat angle was a standard XC 73 degrees, while the chainstay was a bit long at 18.3 inches. The bottom bracket was not excessively low, nor does it need to be with the 29er's axle substantially higher than the bottom bracket centerline. This was a plus, as I never banged the cranks. Typical 26er XC bikes have excessively low bottom brackets to stabilize cornering and can be annoying through the rocks. Part of the Anthem's numerical magic results in a relatively compact 43.5 inch wheelbase, which places the rider squarely in the middle of the bike - a plus when change-ups on the trail require quick reactions. Quick reactions and big wheels are rarely used in the same sentence, but Giant rewrites that rule. A possible, though minor, error was the carbon Anthem's copycat straight top tube, which is not a requirement for a molded carbon bike, and it elevates the medium-sized bike's stand-over height to 30.3 inches. Sizes are offered in Small, Medium, Large and X-large.
Lined up and ready to rock, $80,000 worth of Anthem X 29ers stand at attention near the trailhead.
Component Check
Giant's World Cup race team is running SRAM components, so the Anthem X Advantage gets the full Monty, highlighted by the XX two-by drivetrain. The 26 x 39 gearing is perfect for racing and seasoned legs, with just enough low gear to scratch up techy climbs and a big-wheel-boosted top gear that can handle fireroad-screamer descents.RockShox does the work up front with a 15QR axle SID RCT3 fork. Brakes were SRAM World Cup XX with 160mm rotors - strong stoppers, but we noticed that on long descents, the ventilated discs would begin to make scrubbing noises when heated to the edge of their comfort zones. Cable guides are included for a dropper post, but Giant's house-brand carbon seatpost fills in until that time, topped by an ironing board disguised as a Fizik Tundra 2 saddle - comfortable in one position, but nowhere else. Stiffness rules the charts, so Giant specs its DH-looking Contact SLR Carbon stem with house-brand low-rise carbon handlebars. Tires were narrow, 2.1 inch Schwalbe Racing Ralphs - faster than your mom on the trail, but not all that durable, and a bit sketchy on the fast, hard-pack corners common to the Santa Monica Mountain range.
First dual-suspension 29er for women
Inspired by Super D and Enduro ripper Kelli Emmet, Giant tweaked the Anthem to produce a female-specific chassis, including a curved top tube for a lower-stand-over height, a slightly taller head tube (not sure how that figures as 29ers are already too high) and lower gearing highlight the Anthem X 29 0 W, in addition to some 'custom-tuned' components like lighter wheels slightly narrower handlebars and a female-friendly saddle. The weight of the top-drawer Anthem X 29 0 W is pegged at under 24 pounds, which is quite nice for an aluminum-framed XC machine.
Giant's female-specific Anthem X 29 0 W is readily recognizable by its curved top tube.
Up front, the RockShox Reba RL fork uses a standard-dimension tapered head tube (1 1/8 x 1/12 inch) instead of Giant's more rigid 'Overdrive' steerer which sports a larger diameter 1 1/4 inch upper section. Unfortunately, women will not get the Advanced X carbon front triangle, as the Anthem X OW models are aluminum only (Shhh, brr brr brr brr, baaaah). The better angle is that Giant is producing its most popular suspension bike directly to the women's market and in a configuration that has proven to win at the World Cup level. That should make a lot of girls happy on the trail, which hopefully will inspire a carbon model soon.
A strong female contingent was on hand to weigh in on Giant's female-specific Anthem X 29 0 W. The general consensus was, well, the picture is worth a thousand words.
Giant Wheel Sneak Peek
As an additional treat, Giant used the debut of its 2013 Anthem X Advanced to give us a chance to see and ride its first carbon wheelset - the P-XCR. Designed at Giant, the 1430 gram wheelset is produced at DT/Swiss, using the Swiss wheel-maker's composite rim manufacturing system, star-ratchet freehub and unparalleled spoke technology. Giant's input created new hub flange metrics with 90-degree spoke exits and the drive-side rear spokes are offset two millimeters outwards to optimize wheel stiffness under power.
Bill Miller, team leader of Giant's component division, goes over the details of the New P XCR carbon wheels.
'DT Swiss is an ideal partner for Giant's wheel program,' Says team leader Bill Miller. 'Giant is an industry leader in composite manufacturing, and our guys insisted that we could make the wheels in-house. The advantages DT Swiss brings to our wheel program is that everything is produced under one roof, so communication and quality control are simply not an issue.'
The 1430 gram wheelset features a standard XC 19mm inner diameter and is molded with a tubeless ready tire sealing profile. The rim still needs to be taped to be used tubeless, however. An additional benefit of the DT/Swiss connection is that the quick release rear wheel can be converted to a 142/12mm through axle, or use the DT Swiss 9mm QR through-axle skewer system. The front axle is QR 15, and Giant's Bill Miller was pretty sure that his axle design was compatible with DT Swiss' quick-release caps should anyone want to use a standard-dropout fork Giant's P-XCR wheels will not be ready until Summer 2012, and in the meantime, first-production Anthems will be equipped with SRAM's new Rise Carbon 60 29er wheels. Prices are not yet set.
How They Ride
With a days' ride on Giant's wheels, I can report that they are laterally rigid to the point where I did not think of my wheels at all during the ride. Granted, there were only a few sections that would actually put a wheelset in danger, but more importantly, I didn't experience any windup or chatter on high-speed fire-road drifters - the corners that often defeat less-than-rigid 29er frames and wheels. Acceleration, the litmus test of XC wheels was crisp, especially for 29er hoops. I never mounted a tire, and our test wheels used tubes, so the utilitarian aspects of Giant's new rim design are yet to be discovered. I wished that Giant had dared to make its premier carbon rims wider than old-school XC hoops. A more secure footprint would have made the bike way more fun at speed. In Giant's defense, XC gram-counting wiener-boys who are its potential customers would be reluctant to trade the promise of significantly better handling and better tubeless performance in exchange for a negligible weight increase - but the future is definitely wider.
RC with Giant's Global Marketing Director who gutted out 27 miles and 4300 feet of climbing with a smile. It must be quite an inspiration when your boss can throw down for an epic ride like this one.
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Only half your statement is correct Martin. And O, why would you ever replace the frame, before forks? Seriously?
And FSA and Sram? Where does that come into reasoning when talking about Overdrive.
And just think about the frame thing, you have nasty crash and dent/crack the downtube you not going to replace the fork whole bike are you?
And for the frame, considering carbon is generally much stronger than Aluminum with falls (look at what the old dorado forks could get away with), I doubt something that would break a frame, wouldn't also break the forks, or severly damage them. Either way, these frames do have warrenty. So considering most people who can afford these types of bikes only ride them for a season or two, by the time warrenty is up, they are selling the whole buy to buy a new bike.
Plus it's the best looking bike ever made pretty much (IMO)!!
Trek Session 9.9 - $8929.99
Trek Remedy 9.9 - $8929.99
Trek Fuel EX 9.9 - $9339.99
Trek Top Fuel 9.9SSL - $8399.99
Specialized S Works Carbon Epic 29er - $10500
Specialized S Works Carbon Stumpjumper 29er - $9900. 26er - $9400
Santa Cruz V10 w/ Boxxer (so not even a drivetrain!) - $7360
A small selection of the top end bikes out there (hell, dont get me started on road bike, a new BMC road bike with Lamborghini endorsement for $20,000?) but they all go for the same sort of price, be it DH, trail, XC.... Manufacturers can charge what they want for a top end bike, and they can get away with it as there are a lot of very well off people out there with disposable income. I dare say when the Specialized Demo Carbon comes out, that will be in the $8-10k region too, but as that's a downhill bike, people wont complain as much about the price!
This bike is tailored for people with more money than sense.
Trek, Giant, and Specialized are not boutique brands. They do think that they can charge boutique prices though.
Also, I made a mistake in my last post, the Lambo BMC road bike actually costs nearer $27,000, that's a joke!!
NR8productions. this is why I said "in my opinion". I'm a little bias, I have a 26" Anthem in alu, and I love the way it rides so much, this is curvier, so can only look better! Some people like it some hate it, kinda a marmite bike?
Some of us have easily spent over 20k in bikes and parts in our own individual history of riding. You get what you pay for. It's like someone saying almost a million bucks in 2001 for a Mc Laren F1, and complaining about it. Well, buy a jetta or something more in your price range, and let the people that can afford stuff enjoy themselves.
The worst thing ever is when people bitch about expense, and people with money. Go to school, work hard, get a career, and 8k won't seem more than a month of work's pay.
99.99999999999% of people on PB will never push their bikes to the limits. So, in that case, all the people riding Demos, V10's, Intense m9's etc, won't ever push them to what they are made for... so then why do any of us buy top tier bikes with good part specs?
And wasting money??? If someone wants something nice, it's not wasting it. Some people enjoy working hard and buying nice stuff. I don't consider that "wasting" it, if it makes them happy, and makes them look forward to going to work in order to fund things like these. Should these people instead be giving their money away to help others? Heck no. They made it, they earned it, they can enjoy it.
And it pisses you off that some people have more money than you? Stop being a wining and just ride. It's like saying someone who wears 150$ nikes should pay money to anti sweatshop orgs. Really now?
You realize that most of the cheaper bikes are made in ultra low paying factories right? So, in real sense, many of the top tier bikes get produced in better factories that can handle the QC of such products. So, in turn they are actually supporting people more than people not buying expensive bikes.
This is nothing about priorities. Stop making it seem people need to donate their hard earned money. This isn't a communist country (or continent).
So, best yet.... it's you who needs to pay attention.
But, nice response to a comment that wasn't even directed at you. Guess it's you that seems that everyone is "talking about you",
try owning (not just riding one) and you will soon realise why for cross-country "trail riding" they are simply awesome
would still highly recommend a 26er for DH and FR duties without hesitation
It seems to me if you ride through technical sections by simply slamming into obstacles head on, a 29er may benefit you because the bigger wheels will roll over those obstacles more easily. However if you can ride technical terrain on a 26er without any problems, you will probably hate 29ers, because they take so much more effort to perform the same maneuvers you're used to on a 26er.
Of course, while, I've ridden several around a parking lot, the Spider is the only 29er I've ridden on actual technical terrain, so it could just be that the that specific bike sucked. I'd like try out some other 29ers for XC racing applications (no way I'd even consider it for my AM bike). I prefer a 69 degree head angle on my 26" XC racing bike, so I am thinking of trying out the Scott Scale 29er, since it is reasonably priced and has a 69.5 head angle.
I haven't used the sram brakes extensively but I agree shimano are better, but... lets not forget the most important point.
THIS IS A CROSS COUNTRY RACING BIKE.
So in the article where they say ' quality control and communication is simply not an issue " they should probaly have another look cause im F$%KING Pissed...!!!!
If the middle model was XT equipped, I'd be more keen.
I'm sorry but don't compare a girls xc bike with an Impreza WRX.
If you want to compare a DH bike to a car, compare it with a monster truck, goes fast over boulders, falls off cliff and survives and all that...
Anyway, why the hate for XC? Surely any bike is a cool bike if it gets ridden? right?
good words...all bikes are cool bikes...as long as they are ridden and someone is having fun on that bike
every rider could do with opening their minds / horizons and experience all facets of cycling with many different bikes to experience pleasure from riding
I was negative about 29ers until I took the plunge and bought one, now its all I ride off-road as its totally perfect for the trail riding I do, I also have a 700c road bike and 20" BMX in my collection, loving riding them all!
this is one reason legendary BMX rider Taj signed with Giant, to get to ride ALL of their bikes, not just their BMX