Interview: Zumbi Cycles Founder Pawel Matuszynski

Feb 24, 2013
by Mike Kazimer  
Peter “Szwed” Szwedowski interviews pioneer snowboarder, mountain biker, and founder of Zumbi Cycles, Pawel Matuszynski.


How old are you, where are you from, and when did your adventure with mountain biking and snowboarding start?

I'm 33 years old... but I still feel 18. I'm from Myslenice, Poland. I love my hometown - the surrounding mountains helped me find my path in life. After '89, communism in Poland stopped and suddenly lots of new stuff showed up in our everyday grey reality. I was a teenager then, and I remember when I first saw a mountain bike in some kind of sports magazine that someone bought in Austria. I just knew, this is it! The same with snowboarding; one picture from a magazine and I was in love. The beginning of the '90s in Poland was a very special time. My generation was the first in Poland to start skateboarding, snowboarding and mountain biking. It was very hard to get equipment in those days because it was so expensive. I remember that the first “snowboard” I had was made from my skateboard from which I unscrewed the trucks, screwed on some old ski bindings, waxed it with a candle and rode it down the hill behind my house, tail side down in the powder! Same with mountain biking - we just started rebuilding normal bikes into mountain bikes because they were so expensive. I got my first mountain bike in 1993, a Pacific, and my first real snowboard in 1994, a Fanatic. Those were the days...

Pawel in the Zumbi workshop.



Tell us about Zumbi, and the early days of your company.

By the end of the nineties in Poland we started to build the first downhill tracks and the first races were organized. In my hometown, Myslenice, we have an old ski lift built in communism times, which didn’t really have any role because there wasn’t any ski slope built, so it was basically to nowhere. An example of a communist nonsense. The first DH riders in Poland found out quickly that this was a perfect spot to ride. I remember the first DH race in which Szymon Kobylinski from NS bikes won and I got hooked. I quickly changed from training and racing XC those days to DH. Of course, again, the problem was with finding the proper equipment. I just rebuilt my XC bike with a prototype DH fork with the name PPK I got made at the university where I studied. Later, I bought a really used Karpiel Disco Volante frame. Me and my local friends started fighting with the local forestry and town council to legalize the tracks on Mt. Chelm, which was like fighting with a concrete wall. Nobody understood that we just wanted a real place to train for our sport. Downhill in Poland in the beginning of the 21st century became pretty popular. The Polish DH Cup was shown on public TV and had very good sponsors and some really good riders, like Filip Polc, Anita Molcik, and Adam Vagner. Good days.

I was finishing my master's degree and started thinking about building my own frame. I made the first drawing during classes at the university. I started going to the library and studying books about designing and materials. I spent a lot of times in the books those days and missed a lot of classes. I studied Chemical Engineering, so not exactly the proper topic, but I had a lot of advanced mathematics, physics and construction engineering classes and projects which really helped me get where I am today. Anyway, my first project of a fully suspended frame was finished in 2003 and then the real problems started. Building the prototype was very hard. The first thing was finding the proper material and then the proper craftsmen. To make the prototype I had to sell my own frame and XC bike. I found a company importing material from Germany for all the machined elements, and workers at the machining facility at my University started machining the parts on manual lathes and mills. I found a company making simple aluminum frames in Mielec from 7020 alloy tubing which was exactly what I was looking for. The guys in Mielec had repaired my beat up Karpiel when my headtube completely snapped off and I was happy with their work. The machining took forever. In the meantime I got my master's degree and spent half a year in New Zealand, where I worked at a bike shop and in my free time biked and drew new frames. I came back in autumn 2004. The parts were finally ready and the guys in Mielec welded the first prototype which came out...bad. The frame was a single pivot with a MX type swingarm, with the front triangle similar to my Karpiel. The geometry wasn’t good. The head angle was too steep, along with other mistakes, like I had to make a very long BB axle for the crank clearance.

I wasn’t happy with these problems, but the suspension side of the bike worked nicely. The lateral stiffness was also very good. So it motivated me to redesign the project. In early 2005 I traveled to Chicago, USA, where I worked again in a bike shop and spent my spare time on a new design. I also got in contact with Craig Seekins from Avalanche Suspension who gave me some good advice after checking out my design. I came back to Poland with a ready to build project, custom valved Chubie shock and other parts for the bike. By late autumn 2005 the frame was ready. This time it was good. I was happy and some good riders tested it, ending their runs at the bottom of the course in Myslenice with happy smiles. For that time the bike frame had a very low 370mm BB, flat 66 head angle, 83mm BB shell, 150X12mm rear spacing and 220mm travel. The lateral stiffness, thanks to the unique swingarm construction, was superb. In 2006 Michal Sliwa and Maciej Bochenek, both from Myslenice started racing on the DH Team frames in the Polish and Slovakian DH Cup with much success, such as Michal getting the Vice Champion of Poland title in Elite category. Then it just went downhill...

There was a time in Poland when Zumbi received negative feedback. You continued on the path you had set. We are living in a pretty jealous and stubborn society. Tell us, how is the situation nowadays? Do you distribute your products in Poland and does the Polish market count for you?

You are thinking about 2008 and 2009. Yes, those years were very hard for me and I was at a point that I even though about closing the company. Most of the frames we made were ridden by Polish customers. I admit, in those two years we made a lot of production mistakes. There was a huge problem with production repeatability and quality control. The main reason was in the tooling made for producing the F44 frame in the factory in Mielec. I was really close to finding a new factory. Finally, the guys in the Mielec factory stood up to the task and built from scratch new, better tooling, which was very precisely measured and the problem vanished.

Man learns all his life and I know a lot of Polish people associate Zumbi with those problems, and it's hard for Zumbi to rebuild confidence. We sell our frames to Polish riders directly. Poland is a very hard market and I hope one day Polish customers will be proud again to riding Zumbi frames like riders from all around the world.



Are Zumbi frames still welded from imported parts or are they 100% built in Poland?

Every single part for Zumbi frames is made in Poland, either in Mielec City or in my own workshop. In the factory in Mielec we have a CNC mill, lathe, manual lathe, press, bending machine and of course a nice TIG welding machine. Each Zumbi model has precisely made jigs. After the frame is welded in Mielec we finish it in different options. We can powder coat it in any RAL pallete color, hand paint with airbrush details or anodize it. A new option is laser etching or mechanically machining the logos. The frame then goes to the Zumbi laboratory as my friends call it where it is assembled. Here we hand polish the links and other small parts. I also have a lathe and mill here where we make small parts such as axles, caps and finish out stainless bolts. Tap the BB and remove the paint from inside the headtube and seat tube with professional tools. After assembly each frame is checked on a special table to see if it's straight and the geometry is correct before getting it out to the customer.

The perfect setting to test the all-mountain capabilities of the Zumbi F11.



Taiwain's technological capabilities continue to increase. Have you thought about moving your production to Taiwan?

My whole design and production philosophy is opposite to mass production in China. Looking at the economical side, it would probably be worth it, but Zumbi would just become another normal bike brand. Most of our customers choose Zumbi because it's a boutique product produced in Europe with a lot of custom options, which these days is unique in the bicycle industry. Europe and the rest of the World is addicted to China. Taiwan is really just a huge repacking place. Most of the production occurs in deep China, Bangladesh and other countries in that region. To have control over the production in the Far East you need to have an agent or personally be there, otherwise things go wrong. Also, counterfeiting is a norm there and I would never send one of my designs to any factory there to see them eventually end up in a fat catalog of nameless soulless products.

I love my country and I’m proud that Zumbi is made in Poland. I believe that in the near future more European companies will move their production back to Europe as financially it wont be that attractive any more.

Zumbi riders Jan Kocis, Toni Ferreiro and Antoinie Bizet



I have to admit that looking at you and Zumbi reminds me of Jeff Steber from Intense. Jeff built a legendary company and builds his frames in California. I had the opportunity to talk with him and he told me how big of a project it was for him to have his own heat treating in his factory. Intense frames are built from 6061 alloy. You use 7020 and to my knowledge you don’t heat treat your frames after welding. Tell us more about this

Comparing me with Jeff who is an MTB icon and legend is an exaggeration! When it come to heat treating after welding there is no need when using 7020 alloy. Tubing, profiles, and the plates from which we build Zumbis are shipped to us heat treated, and after welding for about 10 days the construction hardens and the stress points disappear naturally at room temperature. You can speed up this process by heat treatment but building a frame always takes us more time. After the final assembly each frame is checked for straightness which sometimes need to be corrected on a special table as the forces in welds let go. Our trials rider Jan Kocis from Slovakia won the World Championship in the Euro Bike Trial Federation in 2011 used just ONE frame during his complete season, which was a surprise for him as normally he destroys any other frame in no more then 2 months!



On zumbicycles.com I saw the new F11 Enduro / all-mountain frame. Both of these mountain bike trends continue to grow in strength. Zumbi as a company is strongly connected with downhill – I don't associate them with enduro. Tell us more about this project and when will the frame be available to the public.

To tell you the truth, the idea of building such a frame came into my mind when I stopped racing downhill three years ago. Karolina, my wife, persuaded me to design such a frame during our riding on the Rychlebskie Stezki in the Czech Republic, a great place to ride! She herself also stopped racing DH and we started exploring the mountains I knew from my roots of XC riding. The idea of a trail bike was brilliant as for me this type of bike is the proper tool for exploring new mountain routes, getting close to nature and that’s what mountain biking is really about. Love, peace, and singletrack as my friend from Sweden says.

So, the main goal when I started designing the F11 was very good pedaling efficiency with minimal pedal bob effect, a pretty neutral characteristic of the suspension curve, isolation of the braking forces during hard braking on the suspension, fully active suspension which helps for traction on the steep uphills and small progressiveness at the end of the travel preventing harsh bottoming on the downhills, good lateral stiffness, air shock equipped and low mass. This was a real challenge for me as a designer. I modified the FPS System suspension spending lots of hours designing the proper suspension curve. I decided on using two suspension travel options in one frame by simply changing the bolt hole in the top shock mount. Bos Suspension got my suspension curve in order to build the first VipR shock for the prototype and they were impressed with the diagram I sent them. The first prototype was built in late 2011. The frame had some small mistakes, as a real prototype should have, but generally the riders who tested it were surprised with the effect I got. I’m really proud of this frame as it was a challenge and all my goal for the design were accomplished. The first production frames where made in the spring of 2012 and it was very nice to get very good opinions from riders and magazine tests. The F11 has a lot of different options such as dropout spacing 12X135mm, 12X142mm or classic 9X135 QR, tapered headtube, anodized finish with optional laser or mechanical graved logos, three standard sizes and custom geometry options. And of course me and my wife are both riding now on F11s!




Not a lot of companies produce an electric DH bike. I’m not a big fan of electrifying bikes, but after a thought it makes sense. I live under Mt. Sleza, which is a beautiful place to bike, but I can go down this mountain a maximum of 3 times per day because of the lack of lifts. On the Zumbi DH e-bike I could do more runs daily. Where was this idea born? Is this just a prototype or is it in production for the public?

The idea was born when Jurg Lanz, from Switzerland based boosty.ch, wrote me an email saying he had an advanced electrical motor that he uses on his bike. He was looking for a producer of frames which would be compatible with his motor system. After seeing his system I thought about using it on a F44 downhill bike. We met in Schladming during the DH WC and I had a chance to ride his e-bike. For me it was a surprise when I was able to pedal up the last steep open part of the WC track in Shladming leaning on the handlebars because of the steepness. I saw a huge potential in this project. Jurg came over to Poland with a Boosty set for me. I mounted the motor, controller box and throttle grip on my F44 DH bike. First tests were amazing! I could get up any mountain in my area and then enjoy the downhill. I did around 30km up and down over the whole mountain range starting at 320m above sea level and getting up thugh three mountains with around 1000m peak altitude and was able to get back home. It took me around four hours of hard pedaling.

Most people when they hear about e-bikes say that these are bikes for the lazy. That's absolutely not true. The more you pedal, the more the battery is saved and the range is longer. The motor just makes it possible to get up on a heavy DH bike on any non lift assisted mountain. It is possible to go up steep routes that are impossible on a XC bike, and going down is just beautiful! At the moment we produce special frames for Boosty. The E44, E22, El Guru and El Voodoo. Most of them ride in Switzerland. If you want to watch the E44 in action we have a nice video on our site in the e-bike section showing how it handles in the winter.

Why did you decide to name your company Zumbi?

I'm a huge fan of the heavy side of music. At the time I was opening my company, I listened to a lot of Max Cavalera music. There is a song, Quilombo, on the first Soulfly album that tells the story of 17th century Nacao Zumbi, a legendary warrior, the head of an illegal rebellion area of Brazil who was undefeated for a long time. Finally, he got caught by a crusade against his country. He was beheaded and his head was hung on the market square. Zumbi is the symbol of immortality and indestruction. There was also a contest once on DHzone.com for the name of my company. I picked the name already but was curious what people will write. Somebody wrote Zombi and won the first Zumbi t-shirt...

What are your plans for the future?

Zumbi is growing and will continue to grow. In the far future I would like to move the whole production to my backyard in Myslenice. I hope to continue meeting good people on my way, and to experience snowy winters which give me energy and inspiration for the warm part of the year.


Interview by Peter “Szwed” Szwedowski

www.zumbicycles.com


88 Comments

  • + 26
 I believe that every biker's dream is to have his own homemade frame. Mine sure is!
  • + 2
 too bad diy in any form is heavily smothered these days
  • - 3
 all dh frames are hand made btw Wink
  • + 4
 I'm living that dream, I have a custom homemade BMX frame Wink
  • + 5
 Niby wszystko fajnie, ale Zumbi nadal powtarza błąd sprzed lat - olewanie klienta. Rok temu wysłałem ramę F44 do Pawła, żeby pomalował ją na nowo. I to był błąd... Na początku byłem zadowolony, ale po jakimś czasie farba zaczęła odpadać płatami, a naklejki się zrywały... Po pół roku rama wyglądała naprawde strasznie, więc po pewnym czasie zdecydowałem się napisać do Pawła, czy da się coś z tym zrobić, ku mojemu zdziwieniu dosyć szybko odpisał, ze pokaże zdjęcia lakiernikowi i wkrótce da odpowiedź... I od tamtej pory cisza, zero odzewu, mimo, ze pare razy się przypominałem. Zapłaciłem ponad 500zł za malowanie, które okazało się kompletnym bublem, a jak chciałem to zareklamować, to mnie olano. Nie wspomne o tym, że jeszczę się okazało, ze tylny trójkąt jest krzywy... Szkoda, że Zumbi tak traktuje klientów, w dodatku rodaków. Jesli polityka Pawła się nie zmieni, to opinia o Zumbi także się nie zmieni i w Polsce nikt tego nie będzie kupował.
  • + 1
 i agree. i also have some experience with their frames and support. the geometry is spot on quality and strenght of the material is discussable ... (i have sent the frame back after few years of riding the Guru frame with the suspicion that i cracked on the weld. they examined it with penetration dye but have not sanded the pain off previously so there was still the crack in the paint which was even more visible after dyeing and the actual crack in the material couldnt be visible. as a result they said the weld is a bit messy but its all okay and safe to ride.) ... also their customer support is miserable! i had to wait for 2 months to get my frame back and now im not even sure if it is cracked or not. i sanded the pain off on that spot and it looks like one but i also might be the line where the weld is meeting the tube... in addition to that i had to resend my mails and remind them to get any answers and informations at all!
at first i was very satisfied with the frame it was great until that point when i have needed some support from them...
  • + 5
 The DH e bike sounds awesome, the 7020 aluminum sounds interesting, and this guy is a real innovator and creator. Would be great to see what the DH Is like in Poland and other eastern european countries. They've produced some WorldCup racers so it must be a decent scene.
  • + 20
 "My wife and I stopped racing Dh, she suggested I make an AM frame, so I did."
What a boss haha!!
  • + 2
 Or wiped..
  • + 4
 I think the F44 looks like a (all tossers please fill in this bit, im sure every bike in the whole world will be mentioned)!!! I wish i knew such a fantastic guy as Pawel! i love him and am not happy he has a wife! i wanted to make him mine!! :-(
  • + 0
 and im 400% pure awsome!
  • + 2
 Niby wszystko fajnie, ale Zumbi nadal powtarza błąd sprzed lat - olewanie klienta. Rok temu wysłałem ramę F44 do Pawła, żeby pomalował ją na nowo. I to był błąd... Na początku byłem zadowolony, ale po jakimś czasie farba zaczęła odpadać płatami, a naklejki się zrywały... Po pół roku rama wyglądała naprawde strasznie, więc po pewnym czasie zdecydowałem się napisać do Pawła, czy da się coś z tym zrobić, ku mojemu zdziwieniu dosyć szybko odpisał, ze pokaże zdjęcia lakiernikowi i wkrótce da odpowiedź... I od tamtej pory cisza, zero odzewu, mimo, ze pare razy się przypominałem. Zapłaciłem ponad 500zł za malowanie, które okazało się kompletnym bublem, a jak chciałem to zareklamować, to mnie olano. Nie wspomne o tym, że jeszczę się okazało, ze tylny trójkąt jest krzywy... Szkoda, że Zumbi tak traktuje klientów, w dodatku rodaków. Jesli polityka Pawła się nie zmieni, to opinia o Zumbi także się nie zmieni i w Polsce nikt tego nie będzie kupował.
  • - 4
flag WAKIdesigns (Feb 26, 2013 at 0:42) (Below Threshold)
 Wyp na DH-zone. Jak chcesz srac po swoich to nie rob tego Na forum miedzynarodowym. Rzeczywiscie nie ma nas za co szanowac za granica.
  • - 2
 Ah no i "na zachodzie" Zumbi jest szanowane, ludzie sa bardzo zadowoleni z ram, niraz bylem w Szwecji pytany o pomoc w spriwadzeniu, od ludzi wczesniej posiadajacych rowery klasy Session wiec coz... Jestes w ogole w stanie przelykac sline? Musisz miec zgage jak jasny pieron
  • + 3
 Waki nie rozumiem tego podejscia? Nie moze opowiedziec o swoim złym przeżyciu bo akurat tak po wojnie sie granice ułozyły, że mieszka w jednym kraju z Pawłem? No bądź poważny.
  • - 1
 Powiedzialem to wielokrotnie, drazni mnie to ze Statysrycznie Polak nigdy nie odpusci szansy zeby nasrac na drugiego Polaka. Rzadko sie zdarza zeby polski produkt prezentowany tutaj nie dostal zjebki od Polakow.
  • + 1
 Ale ponieważ polacy marudzą to zakazujesz wszystkim na cokolwiek sie skarżyć? Bo to troche przegiecie pały w drugą stronę.
  • + 5
 Od razu mi się przypomina ta akcja...
www.dh-zone.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=58617
  • + 2
 I used to have an F-44 Ti when I was living in England. Only issue I had with it was tyre clearance. Running a 2.4 Dry conditions tyre on a rather narrow EX721 rim was close as, and anything that got picked up by it would clog up the seatstay and chainstay yokes. This was 4 years ago and I'm sure that's been addressed by now. Otherwise, great bike and a great company to deal with.
  • + 1
 I am only 356% awesome and I have to admit that my awesomeness is only about 90% pure. HOWEVER.... my F44Ti added to 356 = 400% pure awesome. My bike is ace. It's better than yours and everyone elses. Plus it's got a custom paint job that Pawel sorted for me. It's a bit gay and gets me in lots of fights but kicked Jonny Foreigners ass in mountain of hell and jumped off the 4.5m vert drop at les Deux. When you buy a bike from Pawel, he and his friends will snowboard and drink dangerous vodka with you. Top bloke. Top bike. top ex-importer from Yorkshire who might have to remain incognito.
  • + 3
 I would ride one of these. Small companies and stories like this are just sick! Keep it up...Zumbi..
  • + 0
 People have good but short memory, so they don't remember the beginnings of Zumbie bikes. I was actively involved in many, many discussions on old Bike Action forum when mr. Matuszński was assuring us that his products are NOT made in Mielec even the sizes of tubing used are identical to those used by Mielec Bike.

I found it extremely funny when his lawyer sent letter to Bike Action ( concerning one of the moderators) demanding to stop "harrasing" his client Smile

It would be unfair to deny Zumbi succes over the yeras but people like me won't buy any of his products remembering his behaviour in the beginnigs of his company.

Unfortunately I can't find photo of Zumbi frame without proper alignment of the wheels. AFAIC it was taken by Badman in Szczyrk.

When U see one of these bikes remember to shout "PIEEECYKIEM!!" It's Zumbis official greetings Smile
  • + 2
 Can you tell me why it is mostly the Polish people that talk crap about the brand from their own country? Have you ever seen a guy from Czech Republic complaining about RB? Lawyers?! Stop lying, you have no bloody clue about anything. People complain that nobody respects us abroad that they think we are the third world country - nobody has ever made me feel as shit as my own fellow country men. You all make sure nobody gets out of mediocrity.

Just shut up, stay on DH zone
  • + 1
 Because mostly it's Polish people know the truth about Zumbis history. Because mostly it's Polish people were there when he was assuring us about certain things. And last but not least it's mostly Polish rideres who had "pleasure" to deal with Zumbi.

As far as I'm concerned you're the type of person that Zumbi gaves a boner but I'm not so I won't kiss his butt only because his Polish and managed to sell his product globally.

Zumbi needs to understand that there is no future without past and his past was not that good. Ball is on his side now so I'm waiting to see his new designs.

I'm not and never was ashamed of beeing Polish but if you hate other Polish peole so much get the duck of the country and do not return.
  • + 1
 No I don't hate Polish people, I just hate certain morons- have you ever heard a French guy bitchin over a broken Lapierre as soon as there is a post about it? Or a guy from US saying Trek is greedy only interested in money not giving a shit about clients? No you haven't, and I am sure your next classic-whine is: because those companies are better. nr1 - Talk to retailers on statistics on how great other frames are. nr2 - if you support someone from outside all the time, not much can change isn't it?

Respect for you that you bought his frame, kick his ass to deliver, but keep it between you two, there is no point in shouting all over the place as if EVERYone had the same problem like you. Especially that you paid less than for a Glory or Demo that costed less than 10 dollars to produce and ship - don't you feel f*cked by that?

Ok maybe I should bitch on happy customers of Zumbi, that they are not here talking superlatives, making sure he gets more orders so he can hire people to deal with warranty issues better.
  • + 1
 Yep I've heard about both of the cases you have mentioned
  • + 3
 YAY COLORADO!!!!! We made a stamp in PolandSmile Awesome article and super dope hoodieBig Grin
  • + 2
 I love my heritage board! Big Grin
  • + 0
 Those are some epic frames. I would love to get one. I recently got a new bike at www.2wheelbikes.com they had some killer deals. Maybe they would be able to carry something thia awesome one day.
  • + 3
 "Taiwan is really just a huge repacking place." Seriously? Blank Stare
  • + 8
 Carry on reading and you will swiftly get the point.

Here: Everyone is addicted to China [hence] Taiwan is really just a huge repacking place.

And that I believe is not far from truth...
  • + 3
 the F11 looks so nice!
  • + 3
 Taiwan has mfg ability that's close to impossible to match in the western world if you want to produce in the numbers we need for the bike world. The whole taiwan thing is cheap is silly. I'm a fan of Zumbi but they and Intense had the same problem with QC while many TW companies are perfectly true. It's just a marketing ploy and people fall for it.
  • + 1
 Actually if you have ever deblt with Taiwan i think Pawel makes some good points, they are a compleate nightmare to deal with if you havent got somone on the ground. and all bike companies use the far east because it is cheap! but with the logisical and raw material costs going through the roof you will find more and more European factories working on bikes for mass production. if you do some reserch you will find that a lot of high end companies have started this prosess already and are already "matching" the taiwan manufacturers. some taiwan companies are now buying factories abroad as they have started to see the decline and also an increase in anti dumping tax. if you think that all bikes that come from TW are flawless then you are very very much mistaken!
I think it is great that somone has the balls and principals to stick to his guns and shout about it. Pawel doesnt think all taiwan bikes are bad as he imports other brands into poland that are from the far east. its a very unique selling point that it is hand made in Poland. bikes are going the way of beer, how can you say that the brand is from one country and have it mass produced on the other side of the world, why? because its good marketing, as Zumbi use to the reverse. oh and im 400% pure awsome.......ask anyone ;-)
  • + 0
 From what I've heard from people who've been there yes they are a nightmare to deal with but you can have the same issues with a local welding company.
Also no - many bike companies go to TW because you have everything in one place, the materials, the welders, the tools. Even intense has to import their tubes from easton from TW. If you want hydroforming, forging, casting, ti machining you have it all in TW . In us or europe it is close to impossible to do it. Look at what mfg technologies TW made frames use and what euro/us made frames use. There is a distinct difference.

Also I never claimed all bikes coming from taiwan are flawless. I just think the claim that TW bikes are inferior quality is a lie when top tw brands are of as high quality as top US/EUR brands.

btw. I didn't attack Paweł so stop defending him. I know him and he's a cool guy. I just think the attack on TW comes from a lack of knowledge and bad marketing practices.


btw2. beer is different than bikes. For one - bikes don't have a best drink before date. If you knew anything about microbrewing you would know why the comparison is absurd and why some beers have to be close to the point of sale.
  • - 3
 You can have the same issues with a local company but you dont have to get on a plane and fly halfway accross the world to rectifie them!
im really sorry to say but i know of at least two euro factories that do all this just as well as i deal with them and have been to them!! taiwan is cheaper! why the hell would anybody even consider it other wise!
I hate Pawel hes silly!
And as for the beer referance it was how can a company like Budwieser advertise its self as an american beer when its made in the UK etc! ie its marketing and nothing to do with where its from!
I think i may have just gone to 500% pure awsome!!
  • - 1
 What euro companies do it as well and what is IT? Care to explain? Where in euro you can forge parts or even make casts in sensible numbers?

As for beer - it's a silly example. You have one beer but if you want QUALITY beer in some cases you have to be close because it will stay fresh for 1 month max. With bikes that's not the case.
  • - 5
flag DunX (Feb 24, 2013 at 9:34) (Below Threshold)
 .....501% pure awesome and rising!!!
  • + 1
 What drugs are you on and can I have some?
  • - 4
flag DunX (Feb 24, 2013 at 9:50) (Below Threshold)
 Everything that can be done in TW can be done in Europe, I would tell you where but i would have to kill you :-(
and Beer is never silly! especially when in tandem with kielbasa!!!

546% Pure awesome!!! if I get any more awesome i will probably have to explode!!!
  • - 3
 oh and yes to the drugs by the way!
  • + 0
 Give me an example of a company that does this. All euro companies don't hide they do their mfg in Europe. I think I know all of them ( I know lapierre does some of their bikes in the eastern yurp/balkans but I think it;s the lower end) and I know of none that uses harder to obtain mfg tech so if you would be so nice and prove you are not speaking from your ass it would be very nice.
  • + 1
 MDE, NICOLAI,BMC.....666%PURE AWESOME
  • - 2
 ha ha ha i always speak from my ass!!................... Lapierre is Turkey by the way.
I know as ive been to the factory and seen them in production, i didnt have to hear it second hand from someone ;-)

72654456178% pure awesome!!!
  • + 0
 Nicolai uses straight tubing and gussets. I'd love to own a nicolai and I don't think they are in any way inferior but they don't use many of the manufacturing tech available in TW.

MDE seem slightly more complicated but still far from tech some of TW companies use. Also can you point me to where they order their tubes? Because I would like to point you to Intense you mentioned in the interview which has Tw made tubes (Easton) which they weld in US Wink
  • - 3
 I like cheese...............................
  • - 2
 You seam to be able to find things out your self so I will just let you guess! I think you should look at the companies who own the brands (not the brands themselves) and where they own factories...........

Am I at God status yet???

Must be near?
  • + 1
 DunX the think is I know you can't do some of what can be done in TW. At least not in the quantities needed for bikes (much smaller).
Why I'm asking you for examples is because I think you are plain and simply lying or are clueless about mfg capabilities of euro bike companies. The fact that you are avoiding the topic only proves my point. If you want to prove you know something stop avoiding the topic. I'd be glad to be wrong. Seriously.


btw. I think you can make as good frames with simple tech as they make in Tw, often better but saying companies go to TW for prices is a lie. If you ever known someone who had to decide whether go local or TW you would know that.
  • + 0
 How is such a yoda not working for a major cycle company?
I tell you what as i am a lying cluless person you can do my job!

back to 400% pure awesome :-(

Ghost and Lappier are made at a factory in Turkey and we will be using the same facility for the Diamondbacks for the 2014/15 range.(not small quantity brands) I have stood there in the factory and seen it!

Accell also own a big factory in Hungery and produce a lot of high ends bikes there for the Accell group (biggest cycle company in the world that own loads of major brands)

DCW in germany also make some Focus and Raleigh high end bikes in germany.

And all electric bikes MTB etc that are any good are made in Europe including Haibike.

But why take my word for it im clueless!

anyone can read a web page and think they know something!!!

56789% Pure awesome!!!
  • + 0
 oh and i still like cheese by the way!
  • + 1
 I love my work outside of the bike world. Worked in the bike world for some time. Though It's nice that you assume I where I work looking at my PB account. I'm surprised someone who is a rep of the company is displaying such unprofessional behaviour. Well but I assume you are drunk anyway. Also yeah, I'm clueless. You just have no idea about mfg process. You still mistake - a high end company for modern high end mfg process. They are not the same. Raleigh and Focus use simple tech even if the bikes are of top quality. As for Accell group why do you say they have a factory in hungary while their top brands as you yourself claim are produced in Turkey? Why do you repeat yourself?

Lapierre and Ghost are the only examples of high end mfg you claimed but saying Turkey is like europe or us is a bit silly. Especially since most economical data suggests the country is behind TW, even if it's developing fast and it may catch up.

Also for Turkey - why is it better than Taiwan? You do realize that avg. income in TW is similar to Poland.
  • + 2
 Btw. the east europe factory I was refering to was the hungarian factory of accell where LOWER END lapierres were made Wink
  • + 1
 This is pointless you wont accept facts as you are trying to argue with everything and have reduced yourself to calling me an unprofessional cluless lier and a drunk due to me having far more knowlage than you!!! Just live with the fact that I know about this as I live it every day and I have been to these factories and you clearly havent! Maybe you should listen in future rather than argue rubbish out of date facts you read on the internet!
  • + 1
 I don't care if you've been there. The only frame that use most up to date mfg technologies are the ones made in Turkey you mentioned. I don't have to be there, you can just look at the frame and see what tech was used. As for you having more knowledge than me and accepting facts - you only had one partly factual post and yes you are unprofessional. As a Diamonback PM you represent the company. I supervise web marketing and pr in a much larger company and to put it blunt - a few stunts like that and you would be out of a job. As a potential buyer who actually finds DB am bikes quite attractive I'm not much less inclined to buy a company who hires people who avoid factual conversation in place of silly arguments. I would not rather risk it in terms of any customer service contacts. That is why I have called you unprofessional. You may have all the knowledge in the world but how you conduct yourself in the public eye is a testament to your professionalism.
  • + 2
 @ DunX It's your unprofessional, authoritative and cocky narration/tone that makes people think that what you say is some 13-year old kid's gibberish. I thought you're a teenager with ego issues before I checked out your profile. Consider being more professional, and you're gonna be much more credible.
  • + 2
 I have been silly and light hearted! not abusive or detrimental so not unprofessional and you clearly dont like the fact that someone is saying something you disagree with who is rite.
Im sorry but if you cant handle a bit of light hearted banter you shouldnt be on here!
I like TW bikes as thats where the DB's are made and they are great quality as are a lot of others from TW but to say something as bold as " Taiwan has mfg ability that's close to impossible to match in the western world " its just wrong!
we should get together at the joyride or something and ill buy you a beer and a keilbasa :-)
  • + 1
 The think is it's not your opinion that matters on the case. It's how you are perceived. You also responded to a serious inquiry with silliness, repeated silliness in response to a serious inquiry is impolite.

As for my quote you misunderstood me. I don't say they have some space tech. I say it's just a very convinient place as you have a ton of dedidacted workshops, factories and contractors in one place. It makes things easier. Also a good example of what's possible in Tw but hard in yurp is the forged shock basket in the Legend. I also have a few friends in Europe who tried or make bikes but the hassle of doing that requires much more work than doing it in TW. Yes you need a man in Tw to oversee QC but still it's easier. You can do the same here it just takes more work and for many small companies it's a problem they have to work around.

As for beer I'm always up for it. Wink
  • + 1
 So after all this we actually agree with each other :-)
  • + 1
 Horrible debate! I learned nothing; just bad ego.
  • + 1
 well here's the thing, its not about the "country" your plant is based in, but the plant itself, who is running it, how much control you have over it, whether you are trying to do it "remotely" (recipe for disaster) or have a "man on the ground" (better, but no guarantee)

years ago...I tried manufacturing FS bike frames in the UK (2 years of grief), tried in Europe, then tried in Australia (Taiwan was not interested in small production batches back then...)

nothing but grief really? more recently (still some years going back) worked for UK distributor of prominent Canadian brand, nothing but trouble with quality control of brand new frames, most unsellable out the box, many others coming back for warranty claims after a few months of ownership, at times, customers waiting months for resolution, or getting given B.S. by sales staff

after that job? working for UK's largest cycle retailer with many "exclusive" brands, customers buying brand new bikes with bent frames and sub standard components, getting shafted by the company weeks or months of B.S. about "warranty" issues and eventually threatening legal action and getting full refunds or given alternative bikes from Specialized, Trek, etc.

currently? working for a retailer selling one of the biggest retail brands. we still get occasional problems, from time to time. We just had a massive global fork recall on top end road bikes (forks all made in Taiwan by 3 different vendors).

Sh*t happens, its how you deal with it that matters, to the customer who has spent their hard earned money on your product.

In my current job? we get it turned around very quick (couple of days) and give the customer a voucher for £100 to spend in store on products of their choice...its all about taking care of your customer!
  • + 1
 can see a lot of smaller brands coming back to Europe and opening new productions plants, or co-operative plants with other brands. costs in TW are rising every season as understandably the workers want better wages, this is why we see the cheaper (sub entry level bikes) production going to China, Vietnam, Indonesia, etc.
  • + 1
 Hampsteadbandit - to be very honest, the story ends up with a moral, that country of production does matter, because if you had few companies doing direct sales, you could go to them personally with fkd frame and claim your warranty. Phone or mail will never ever replace that. Simple argument - you have just produced it, why is it out of true? Can I please speak to the guy that quality checked it? How come he did not see that? After few issues like that with current level of unemployment both welder and QC guy, would either sort themselves out or get kicked out.

Off course in such world bikes would not be as advanced and manufacturers would not earn as mich money. Every single person would be worse off. Because that's what we are about aren't we? Speed and money. So let's deal with our own shit, frustrated about quality of customer service, then complain on economy and talk BS about saving the planet.

Statistical Customers needs and expectations are ridiculous and trying to cover for that with CS is just creating stuff like that pic of Evil frames around the trash containers - it is the quintesence of all of it, of who we are
  • + 2
 No Pollack jokes here...That frame looks awesome!!!
  • + 1
 My first dh rig was a zumbi, my friend rides it now.. I will get another in the near future!
  • + 2
 yeah speaks word of truth 1979 generation pioneers of extreme!
  • + 2
 The zumbi i ride is so smooth. Top bikes
  • + 1
 Here is a fresh picture of my Zumbi Guru:

www.pinkbike.com/photo/9253214
  • + 1
 Hello just wondering ware I can get new bisli Disk Mount for my team djhh Dh
  • + 1
 Giving my F-44 a complete overhaul at the moment. Love it.
  • + 1
 I sell my F44 frame with an elka shox Wink
  • + 1
 The Dh bike looks mint. The shock looks beefy
  • + 0
 What it would be like to put a MX shock on a downill bike?
  • + 2
 It would turn it into a hard tail.. Unless there was a coil with an appropriate spring rate
  • + 1
 Avalanche suspension is the closest thing to moto suspension you can get for mountain bikes.
  • + 2
 Shut up and ride!
  • + 0
 fugazzi HC forever! Purpleblaze You probably dont even know what fugazzi is?
  • + 1
 mielec company ... buahahaha. The greatest factory ever Wink
  • + 1
 That F11 is stunning!!! Nice articleSmile
  • + 1
 GoZumbi
  • + 0
 safety glasses?
  • - 2
 so shitty to check polish comments..... polish comments about product proudl made in Poland.... But that is POLAND;(
  • + 0
 Eee... You just did the same... Just as I did below with few pricks... We should really at least shut up because I have a strange feeling that people from outside respect us more than most of us respect ourselves. And I say it from my experience of living abroad. I used to be dick towards you just as those guys are against Zumbi and I apologize for that. It is waay too easy to throw shit at someone you don't meet yourself, it is wasy to easy to create your own demonized image of such person or company.

For a small bit of one of many new beginnings, Thank you for being such a good ambassadeur of Poland in the world of MTB through all those years. We got to take this "but that's just Poland" out of our vocabulary, it doesn't make ourselves feel better and it doesn't make the place any better. All the best!
  • + 0
 yes " i'm sorry because I am a Pole"
  • + 0
 But why? What exactly are you sorry for?! What the hell is an actual problem with our fkn country that others don't have? There is good stuff and shit in every country, the difference is which part draws your attention. You've been living in US - all is super nice, because even bees are bigger? I could write a looong list what pisses me off in Sweden that works better in Poland - and what exactly would be the point of that?! Our fathers, grandfathers and their bladifathers fought and died so we can be proud of being ourselves, don't make their sacrifice meaningless. I am f*cking proud to be born in Poland, Im in Sweden as it is how life has laid it out for me. There is one problem, for some unexplainable reaseon we feel worse than others and that we need to prove something to others, and we have no f*cking idea how to cope with that, so we can just throw shit at fellow country men as soon as they put the head above the average mass, which does not exist anyways because comparing to many countries PL is a land of incredible varied characters.
Below threshold threads are hidden

Post a Comment



Copyright © 2000 - 2019. Pinkbike.com. All rights reserved.
dv56 0.071866
Mobile Version of Website