Pinkbike, the Dorado Pro is here… The attached pics are from Eurobike and a decal is missing from the upper part of the leg between the clamps. We’ll have the final decals dialed for Vegas.
Aluminum legged, same internals, 6.55lbs and comes in both 26 and 29er versions. Let me help you back into your chair. We’ve partnered with a few 29er frame makers and you’ll see them at ODD. I’m sure the PB faithful are going to freak on the 29er version, let the fur fly!
guys, easy up a bit.. look, we all know that 29er wheels are well, for lack of a better word.... RETARDED. but! hey, if they make a frame, and wheels, and tubes.. and everything, even though it may be heavy as f*ck, compatible and in good working condition like the hundreds of 26ers out on the market today, maybe we'll have a DH bike for giants? i mean look at Peaty, hes dwarfs the v-10 he rides, maybe hed benifit from a 29er? who knows...
29er DH wheels already exist and have for years now. Kris Holm makes them, so does Salsa, and of course more will come. As far as pros riding them... I think they will eventually. Dirt magazine did an interview with leading bike designers about 2 years ago and specifically asked about 29er DH bikes and most of them were fairly positive about the idea. Jeff Steber (Intense) being the most positive if I remember correctly. We don't need to be afraid of change or new things. If it works then it works.
OMG are you freakin kidding me! This is the most stupid idea in mountainbiking since Gripshift, but worse! The day Greg Minaar rides a 29er V10 to a World Championship victory is the day I will...er, I don't know... I'll eat my shorts or something, cause we all know that is never going to happen. What a stupid idea from Manitou! It seems their new owners are just as stupid as the last. In the same way that World Cup XC riders are not riding 29ers (and lets not forget that the 29er has been around long enough), 29inch wheels are not going to take off in downhilling either. In fact 29 inch wheels are even lest suited to DH than they are to XC. There are a myriad of reason why this is a stupid idea. Can you imagine how much a DH 29inch wheel would weigh? There is far more leverage on such a big wheel. If it wasn't built like a brick 'poo'house, it would fold in half at the first sight of a rock. I can't write any more, it's making me angry. I really wish bike manufacturers would stop trying to reinvent the wheel (literally in this case) and work on the many many more obvious problems with mountain bike design. Aaaargh!
half of the people who have commented so far are so stupid. It says in the article that 29" DH frames are being made in partnership with Manitou. I don't think Manitou is so stupid as to not make sure someone else will make wheels and tires for 29 too.
I still would choose a 26 over a 29 even if it became a staple in the mountainbike industry. I see it belonging in XC. Its basically gonna create a bigger bike. I think its to important to corner on a DH bike and a 26 does it great. A 29 may cover some ground faster but its a big wheel to corner.
what a dumb idea. 29" wheels plow over everything better, but are so much harder to maneuver. not to mention that 29" wheels will taco like nobody's business. unless they're making a 29er deemax or something, i see this not working out so well.
agreed. The real challenge will be making a 29" wheel that is strong enough to handle downhill but isn't too heavy or pricey to discourage riders. I think this idea is unique and interesting, but it is just another way to make parts and bikes less compatible.
if manitou makes a sweet 29'er fork, and somebody else makes a 29'er frame, tire and rim manufacture's will jump on the band wagon pretty quick. but nobodys going to make a 29" DH tire, if theres nobody to buy it.
and its Not like wheels will fold and taco and all this and that so easily. its a few inches bigger, not a big deal. im sure somebody can figure out a way to make a 29" rim as strong as a 26" rim. its not rocket science.
anyways i dont care if they offer a 29" version, whats retail on the 26", and when do we see it in stores?
29'rs have their good and their bad. yes they have a larger traction area, and less they roll better. however i OWN each of them. i feel the 29" wheel has a place for single speeds for sure. as it climbs extremely well, does not want to roll over the back, rolls well over any chatter. and makes that 80mm fork feel like more. however a 29'r isn't as snappy or nimble when cornering. a taller wheel leaned at the same degree will have a significantly larger turning radius. my personal opinion is that 29'rs have their place. some people will love them and swear by them, some will see the advantages and dis advantages and be less biased, and others will be haters (as usual). as far as 29'rs being a scene in DH? idk.... its really hard to say.
PS i have had a little bit of time on trek's 69'r and a previous fully from another company. the 69r feels a little awkward, like it is two separate bikes. the front end rolls over stuff very easily, and then a split second later BAM their is a sudden jolt through the rear wheel.....
yes. i read an article about it, and if you think about, its not a bad idea, it raises the bb, and bigger wheels go over stuff better, and can go through deep stuff better.
pnw, no ofense, but did you even read the article? it says manitou is working with some companies to make a 29'er frame. nuff said. think about it. yeah you want a low bb nobby 1991, but with 29 wheels you can put more bb drop, while still having more height advantage to go over shit. i'm not saying 29 is the way to go, as i would rather just run a 26. imo i dont see 29 dh bikes becoming a big thing anytime soon.
29ers effectively lower your bb because your bb is lower relative to the axles. Basically it's like having a really low bb on a bike that somehow still manages to clear everything... As for DH frames compatible with 29ers, lenz sport is prototyping one, and waltworks actually makes them. As for being crappy at low speeds, try one with a long offset fork. Yes, big wheels can be as nimble as a 26er.
The groms are going to have a field day on that fork... good for manitou
Yea 2-3 Companies make some sketchy 29er frames who wants it.
Whatever i guess Manitou is trying to be 'ground breaking' and lead the way in downhill suspention.
if you're gunna be so negative about it, whats the point of even wasting comment space. its a logical idea. but if you dont understand the points of logic, i guess there's no point in repeating the main points of the arguement.
unknown666 is partially correct but let me clarify one thing. The BB drop is measured relative to the axles, but your BB height is from the ground up. As your BB Drop has the ability to increase depending on frame geo(lowering bb compared to the axles) the actual BB height will inevitably rise though due to the larger wheel. This in turn also raises the center of gravity. The two main deterrents in running a 29er DH bike are hence higher center of gravity and decreased wheel strength.
i can see a dh bike with more adjustable bb height for 29 or 26 wheels. depending on the course it is a great idea. its in the same stage right now as the people who rebelled against the super short flat bars years ago.
that BCD bike looked like crap. 29 is the worst fad in MTB, i wish it would just die. 29 is for hacks who cant handle the gnar. I was so happy 29 wasnt really a dh thing, i love manitou but this is sooooo lame. i swear if 29 ever replaces 26 as the standard ill go back to bmx. 29 is aq bigger gyroscope therefor that much harder to change direction more rotating mass, and the longer spoke makes a weaker wheel. im so sad right now.
here is my prob. im a perfectionist. I wouldnt build a frame unless i was sure it would come out looking like a bike any of us are riding right now, I wouldnt expect anyone to take me seriously unless my work looked professional. which that thing didnt, it looked like something some guy threw together in his garage over the course of a few hours and a couple of beers. 29 is whack because 26 already works just fine. re-inventing the wheel, literally.
windowlicker, If they made a good enough product and didnt base CF frame off 29er wheels then it probibly would have been very differnt, How do you think bike companey get started, Take transition for example they started making frame (only a few years ago) in a bassment and bolth the owners worked for cell phone companey not Transition is in the top FR/DH/AM bike companey. And they still are fairly small rider owned company.
"...We’ve partnered with a few 29er frame makers and you’ll see them at ODD..." sounds like at 29DH bike in the works... and not just slapping a 29" fork and wheel on an existing frame... so the bb height and geometry issues would be addressed... wait and see i guess... freakish.
As a 6'5" guy let me comment here a bit. I totally agree that 29ers aren't ideal for everything. I would never buy one for a park/DH bike.
But for a 6" enduro-type shore XC bike for a taller rider? For sure I would consider it. Average-sized people don't know how hard it can be to get a bike to fit correctly and still ride as it should. For certain applications the 29er is a good solution. Just as it's ok for 24" wheels for smaller riders I think 29" wheels are a viable option for certain bigger riders.
Until now, for 6" bikes the biggest 29er fork going is the Fox F29. Nice XC fork but woefully inadequate for a 200lb+ rider in Vancouver (Yeah there's Maverick, White Bros or shaving down a Fox 36 arch but seriously?).
I could see reducing the travel in the Dorado down to 6" to great effect. You'd increase the overlap by 2" which would stiffen it up and give it a bit more torsional beef. This would be a great solution for the Niner WFO or RIP.
"I could see reducing the travel in the Dorado down to 6" to great effect. You'd increase the overlap by 2" which would stiffen it up and give it a bit more torsional beef. This would be a great solution for the Niner WFO or RIP."
the fork would not ride lower in its travle, there would not be more overlap. if it rode lower in the travle, the bigger wheel would hit the crown.
why does everyone think having a 29" option is SOOOO bad? you dont want it? buy the 26 and go nuts. the 29" version is probably tweaked inside somehow, its not going to be a whole new fork.
why do people think making a wheel not even 10% bigger is going to make t so much weaker? do people who weigh 10% more than you "fold wheels at the first sight of a rock" but THANK GOD you've not over that imaginary line where things break? get real...
It will be flexy. And longer Spokes, 29" DH-rims, 29" DH tires (!), 29" DH or Freeride tubes. That must be very heavy. If you look to CC-Bikes, you can see for Example a wheelset of a Specialized Stumpjumper 29" is 600 gramm heavier (complete with tires) than on the 26" Version. So if you compare the weight of CC and DH Wheelset, and assign it on a 29" DH wheelset, it have to weight around 1kg more than the 26" dh wheelset. Who wants that? It is no CC riding, we need a good manoeuvrability.
with a USD fork in order to fit a 29" wheel all that's needed is to limit the travel a little bit so the wheel doesn't bottom into the lower crown. 29ers don't need as much travel anyway since the bigger wheels roll over terrain better so it works out really well. I'm sure the only difference in the 26 and 29 Dorado is a travel reducer spacer in each leg, just like the Maverick fork. I highly doubt they'd invest a lot of R&D into a segment as niche as 29'er DH. Cool to have options none-the-less.
I love the inverted forks personally. Riding dirt bikes has proven to me over the years that they work. I still think that the 26 rim would be my only choice even with being tall. Either way I would consider them for a fork for my next DH bike.
Well you could just test a 29er on those forks and if you don't like it just switch it back the forks have no bit going between eachleg so it doesn't matter what size you run on it and undercoverfreak has a good point nobody thatim aware of makes a 29" DH tire or tube
I really can't see downhill bikes needing 29" wheels. More rotating mass, either flexier or heavier wheels, taller front end, restricted chainstay space on the frame(its hard enough for some designs to have short chainstays with 26 inch wheels). Whats the advantage of a 29 on a dh bike? ability to roll over bigger stuff? why not run 10" front and rear?
Why all the hate for 29ers? They have some advantages, and besides no one is going to force you to sell your current bike and get a 29er! It just means more options, so people can choose what they want!
Despite the wheels being weaker, I think the larger traction area and the fact that the wheels roll better over rough stuff could be good for DH. But good luck to the engineers who have to make frames that will actually have 8” of travel and enough tire clearance!
It's not a case of hating 29ers. We all realise that there is more than one way to skin a cat. It's more a case of realising that trying to skin a cat with a spoon is just not going to happen. Lets rather design better knives.
Very clever analogy, but I hope 29er DH bikes aren't really bad enough to be comparable to spoons for skinning, lol!
Yeah I forgot about the high COG, I imagine that might kill cornering and high speed stability.
The 29'er version is old news... and it has been discussed, in length (on this site if I'm not mistaken). Glad it will see production, though... pity to see so many WFO's having to go out with Marzocchi shit strapped to the front end!
This should be pretty interesting. I love the 29" idea on a commuter but not so much on DH. I am more worried about trying to corner that bike. I already notice a difference between a light foldable tire and a dh tire with 26" rims... Either way it will be interesting to see where this falls. Maybe the future is running 2 different size rims like the old bighit/all dirtbikes. who knows...
There was an article on the use of 29" wheels I read somewhere on the net that had feedback from several big frame mfr's out there, the main points given as downsides were: the increased gyroscopic force from a larger diameter & heavier wheel will reduce the 'flickability' of the bike, the ride height would be too high, there are currently no dh worthy 29" tyres on the market, rims & tyres would weigh far more in order to be as strong as 26" wheels, its extremely hard to give adequate tyre clearance on a long travel bike using 29" wheels which would give a very long wheelbase; there was also, until now no 29" dh fork on the market...
Upsides of 29" dh bikes would be: they role over bumps quicker, they need less travel (e.g. 6" should be enough)...
that's considerably few up-sides to counter all those downsides!
having tried 29ers for awhile, they have certain situations they do a little better on but I have never felt they offer any advantages over 26 when the trail starts pointing down, getting faster and more tech. I don't ride DH (just a few times) mostly all-mtn kinda stuff. 29ers to me are like monster-trucks vs. an off-road (baja...paris-dakar) truck. Sure it'll roll over stuff but the big wheels slow the response time for rider and vehicle. As far as sizing, it makes sense proportionately for a much taller rider perhaps. It's got it's place, like, lite beer and fat-free ice cream. haha. I sold mine and got back on my 26 dblbanger.
So what are all you haters going to do when Intense makes a 29er DH bike? If they don't show one at Interbike I bet Jeff will have a prototype in 6 months. I will go on record with that prediction. Oh and BTW if it is faster than a 26 (even if only on specific courses) you better believe the pros will ride them. They are paid to win. Period.
so anyway, did anyone notice the fork the actual article was about? no you didn't, you're such a pile of nerds you went absolutely nuts about 29 inch wheels!!! that was the most amazing example of internet bike nerds being as rad as they've EVER been.
Sure the 29 inch wheel will roll over bigger junk.
How about this disadvantage- the extra weight at the rim will add to the gyro effect making the wheel slower to change direction at speed. Combine that with the extra flex and you have a recipe for poor high speed handling IMHO. If you are too lazy to pick up the front end and need a 29 inch wheel to compensate, sure help yourself to a handicap. Knock yourself out. I'll stick with the two six.
I'm intrigued, but my interest doesn't go much beyond that..... IMO, seems to me its another example of somebody taking something that works great in one area (xc) and trying to make it the norm for all areas. I can't see how the loss in maneuverability can be ignored just so you can roll of a couple more things. I'm curious as to how they will get a decent amount of travel crammed into a 29'er frame that won't weigh a ton. The courses that might warrant a 29'er set-up would also be the courses that would typically warrant a lighter bike so you sacrifice one advantage for another. I'm all for progression though so who knows maybe something cool will come out of this....whatever happened to the 650B fad? heard a bunch about that a year or so ago....was said to be the do-all size that could still work with alot of existing 26" geometry?
the grasp of manufacturing concepts is rung out like a rag on pb. Reading comprehension goes a long way.
It's not very far fetched to imagine that the 29r version would have all the same specs as the 26" version, obviously (well, maybe not) the 29r fork will have different crowns (upper and lower) to correct the trail, the added bump height could be made up there by making the crowns both "drop" crowns, or just make the upper tubes 1.5" longer and add spacers? It would be pretty retaded not to carry the same specs between the 2 forks.
You will see 69rs (29 front, 26 rear) become popular with the AM crowd and then slowly trickle into the FR scene, wheels can be made strong enough, brakes are good enough, geometry can compensate, kinda just waiting on tires.
Am I the only one thinking "free publicity" here? This fork (despite being a good or bad idea) will have loads of people talking about manitou yet again.
NINER is working on a dh frame,this is just a way to get all those 29 inch fanatics to buy this useless fork,all magazines have said that 26 inch its better. Its just about money.
This may be an 8in fork for a 26er, but for a 29er it's going to be a 6in fork, 6.5, tops. It may be a DH 26er fork, but it will be an all mountain or trail or whatever you want to call it 29er fork. As such, it's not a bad idea.
_MK
P.S. In order to make an inverted 26er fork work with 29er wheels you have to end the stroke sooner so the tire doesn't bottom out on the crown.
29ers have their applications. When you encounter a hole, or an obstacle, a 29 inch wheel has a better angle of attack, so it can roll over things better.
Smaller wheels go deeper into holes.
from my experience so far with building 29'er verse 26'er wheels, 29'ers do tend to flex more, but I have not seen an increased fatigue rate over 26. though this is for XC applications only, I could foresee the wheels being nearly the same strength with the newer large flange hubs coming out, and some actual FR/DH 29'er rims. All you 29'er doubters really need to STFU, and read a bit.
Thats a wicked point, throw some hubs with huge flanges in and you got a stiff strong wheel with all the advantages of a 29er, but the rigity of a 26". But we will see how it works out.
^they do! I can't recall the name atm, but I think it was schwable. It was a 25 inch wheel made by a company that had the ability to produce a 25 inch tire for it.
haha i think most of these guys say to give it a chance have never ridden a 29er. In a sport all about technical trails and being able to be nimble at high speed a 29er just doesn't belong
this is just F'k up, where is this bull:"*& going to end? good luck jumping a 29 in wheel! I hope that manipoo breaks when someone try to jump it. or land on a rock garden, dang roadies stay on your pavement!!! and f'k off the DH scene, we dont want you here!!!
What a f*cking stupid idea!!! 29ers SUCK for DH, everyone knows that. manitou is just trying to be different, but i just think theyre being retarded. Where will u find 29 inch DH tires, tubes, wheelsets, etc.? NO one will buy the 29er version, because it'll not only f*ck up the geometry of the bike, it'll also make manitou fail even worse than they have in the past, therefore causing people to ate them even more
good for us tall people
and its Not like wheels will fold and taco and all this and that so easily. its a few inches bigger, not a big deal. im sure somebody can figure out a way to make a 29" rim as strong as a 26" rim. its not rocket science.
anyways i dont care if they offer a 29" version, whats retail on the 26", and when do we see it in stores?
PS i have had a little bit of time on trek's 69'r and a previous fully from another company. the 69r feels a little awkward, like it is two separate bikes. the front end rolls over stuff very easily, and then a split second later BAM their is a sudden jolt through the rear wheel.....
I think they are an acquired taste. (Best way to say you dont like something lol)
The groms are going to have a field day on that fork... good for manitou
that bike seems to be lacking in sketchfest factor... and hey! its a dorado with big wheels!
How maney World Cups did that bike win?
As per Wikipedia: Mountain Bike Wheels
How do you think bike companey get started, Take transition for example they started making frame (only a few years ago) in a bassment and bolth the owners worked for cell phone companey not Transition is in the top FR/DH/AM bike companey.
And they still are fairly small rider owned company.
But for a 6" enduro-type shore XC bike for a taller rider? For sure I would consider it. Average-sized people don't know how hard it can be to get a bike to fit correctly and still ride as it should. For certain applications the 29er is a good solution. Just as it's ok for 24" wheels for smaller riders I think 29" wheels are a viable option for certain bigger riders.
Until now, for 6" bikes the biggest 29er fork going is the Fox F29. Nice XC fork but woefully inadequate for a 200lb+ rider in Vancouver (Yeah there's Maverick, White Bros or shaving down a Fox 36 arch but seriously?).
I could see reducing the travel in the Dorado down to 6" to great effect. You'd increase the overlap by 2" which would stiffen it up and give it a bit more torsional beef. This would be a great solution for the Niner WFO or RIP.
the fork would not ride lower in its travle, there would not be more overlap. if it rode lower in the travle, the bigger wheel would hit the crown.
why does everyone think having a 29" option is SOOOO bad? you dont want it? buy the 26 and go nuts. the 29" version is probably tweaked inside somehow, its not going to be a whole new fork.
why do people think making a wheel not even 10% bigger is going to make t so much weaker? do people who weigh 10% more than you "fold wheels at the first sight of a rock" but THANK GOD you've not over that imaginary line where things break? get real...
If you look to CC-Bikes, you can see for Example a wheelset of a Specialized Stumpjumper 29" is 600 gramm heavier (complete with tires) than on the 26" Version. So if you compare the weight of CC and DH Wheelset, and assign it on a 29" DH wheelset, it have to weight around 1kg more than the 26" dh wheelset. Who wants that?
It is no CC riding, we need a good manoeuvrability.
Despite the wheels being weaker, I think the larger traction area and the fact that the wheels roll better over rough stuff could be good for DH. But good luck to the engineers who have to make frames that will actually have 8” of travel and enough tire clearance!
I am more worried about trying to corner that bike. I already notice a difference between a light foldable tire and a dh tire with 26" rims...
Either way it will be interesting to see where this falls. Maybe the future is running 2 different size rims like the old bighit/all dirtbikes. who knows...
All I know is that I will stick with my Boxxer.
the increased gyroscopic force from a larger diameter & heavier wheel will reduce the 'flickability' of the bike, the ride height would be too high, there are currently no dh worthy 29" tyres on the market, rims & tyres would weigh far more in order to be as strong as 26" wheels, its extremely hard to give adequate tyre clearance on a long travel bike using 29" wheels which would give a very long wheelbase; there was also, until now no 29" dh fork on the market...
Upsides of 29" dh bikes would be: they role over bumps quicker, they need less travel (e.g. 6" should be enough)...
that's considerably few up-sides to counter all those downsides!
bansheebikes.blogspot.com/2009/08/why-doesnt-anyone-make-29er-downhill.html
no you didn't, you're such a pile of nerds you went absolutely nuts about 29 inch wheels!!!
that was the most amazing example of internet bike nerds being as rad as they've EVER been.
It's not very far fetched to imagine that the 29r version would have all the same specs as the 26" version, obviously (well, maybe not) the 29r fork will have different crowns (upper and lower) to correct the trail, the added bump height could be made up there by making the crowns both "drop" crowns, or just make the upper tubes 1.5" longer and add spacers? It would be pretty retaded not to carry the same specs between the 2 forks.
You will see 69rs (29 front, 26 rear) become popular with the AM crowd and then slowly trickle into the FR scene, wheels can be made strong enough, brakes are good enough, geometry can compensate, kinda just waiting on tires.
I'm thinking, marketing...
it´s a new inovation and something different
will look strange
but something new
29" = another way to sucker people in to buying more stuff...
if its not broke don't fix it !
its could be are succeed or fail !
29 are on all 2015 bike ?maybe
:P
www.pinkbike.com/photo/3991121
i know people were known for modifying the 40's to fit a 29" but i dont think most people even want that.
i mean not even manitou are THAT stupid?