Middleburn RS8 X-Type CranksBeing from the British Isles you might expect me to rave about how good Middleburn products are, and on one point you'd be right. But it's not because I'm British that I do this, definitely not. Give me something made and designed by a monkey in the swamp of a far flung land and I'll use it and recommend it, but only if it's actually any good. If it's not then it either doesn't get used or we say it isn't any good. In the case of Middleburn I have bought products of theirs in the past with my own money and, in the case of their RS7 cranks, have raced downhill on the same pair since the start of 2006. Five years of solid abuse on the same set of cranks is good in anyone's book. Unfortunately, whilst these cranks are superb, the bottom brackets they use are less so and, in the case of 83mm bottom bracket shells, not the easiest to track down. Two bottom brackets a season has been the average and this is far from ideal when they're not exactly cheap. So it has been with baited breath that we eagerly awaited the release of the new external bottom bracket compatible cranks.
Middleburn's RS8 X-Type cranks have been greatly anticipated by downhillers and trail riders alike.
Middleburn RS8 X-Type details:
- Hot-forged from 7075 T6 aluminum
- External bottom bracket
- Length options: 175mm, 170mm
- The RS8 is designed to work with bottom bracket with a 24mm ID this is the size of Shimano and many other after market companies like Hope and chris King.
- LIFETIME warranty
With Middleburn, everything except for the crank arms is open to change and custom spec'ing, so we'd best start with the basics. With everything designed in house, Matt at Middleburn has worked hard to maintain the uniqueness of Middleburn whilst stepping up the game significantly over the previous RS7 & RS8, themselves still very good cranks. Based on a very similar design to that of the lightweight RS8, but with greater strength than the RS7, this has clearly been successful. With an increased Q-factor to clear wider chainstays, the bare 7075-T6 crank blanks are forged in Italy before the final machining work is carried out at Middleburn's headquarters in Hampshire, England. With each manufacturer having its own subtly different take on the whole X-Type setup, Middleburn has come up with a modular design that enables one set of components to work across a number of different fitments with just one key part change. This means that a set of cranks can easily be assembled to suit your specific needs with the minimum of delay simply by pulling together the individual parts required. So how does it all link together? Well, at the heart of it all is the aluminum axle we discuss below.
Featuring a taper spline fit on both sides, the non-drive side is held in place by a bolt and bonded in place using 603 Loc-tite bearing retainer. In short, it isn't going anywhere once it's torqued up and set using the hefty bolt that holds it all together. And that leaves the drive side to also fit onto the same taper, this time using a self extracting bolt to aid removal. In use it all fits together smoothly with just the thinnest smear of anti-seize on the axle to make removal in the future just as pain free as the assembly.
The RS8 cranks use a large aluminum axle that can fit a number of different bottom brackets.
Rather than utilize press fit spiders, the beauty of Middleburn has always been the modular system with which you can tailor the crank arms to suit your specific needs by changing the spider, either at the time of purchase or at a later date should you want to try something different. It also means that if you damage the spider it is a simple and quick job to change by simply unscrewing the lock ring with a Truvativ/XTR BB tool and swapping it out. Far cheaper than having to replace the whole crank assembly as a result of a wayward hit on a rock. With our downhill bike yet to be built up we elected for a Two-by set up for our all-mountain rig to replace an aging pair of M952 XTR cranks that were already being run with a similar arrangement of cogs. Whilst we could have gone for a standard 4 arm arrangement and just missed off the inner ring we instead decided to go the whole hog and fit the fantastic Middleburn Duo arrangement which you see here. Although this is clearly aimed at those willing to climb too, gravity merchants fear not for we will also be arranging for a pair of these to be fitted to our newly arrived Intense M9 as well. The arrival of 83mm compatible axles should coincide perfectly with the new rig too so as soon as that arrives we will be out punishing these cranks to see what they're capable of in downhill terms. Based on our experiences with the older RS7s we have no doubt that they will stand up to all the abuse we can give them and still come back for more.
A replaceable spider means that not only is the system hugely versatile, but also much easier to deal with if you do happen to cause any irreparable damage to a chain ring tab.
So the Duo - what exactly is it? Well, simply, it's a two ring setup aimed at all mountain and cross country riders. The inner ring attaches directly to the splined crank arm, acting as the spider for the outer ring which is attached by three bolts. It's neat, feels stiff and seems strong. With standard sizes coming in at 27t/40t and 29t/42t, we elected for a slightly oddball 29t/40t which highlights the flexibility that Middleburn are able to offer with their products. The shifting isn't quite as good as it is on a 26t/39t arrangement (
something that Middleburn should soon be offering) but the benefit is that it allows us to even out the chain ring usage and then use a closer ratio 11-28 road cassette at the back.
Middleburn offer a number of different ring types as well, with a couple of finishing options dependent on budget and what you're after. At the top of the tree is the Hardcoat Slickshift which manages to combine smooth shifting with longevity matching that of the very best steel rings. We feel that the ultimate shifting performance is perhaps a couple of fine points down on the very best that Shimano and Race Face have to offer when new, but that it more than makes up for this by working far better when the conditions deteriorate or after the initial newness has worn off the others. In fact, whilst some point out that the Middleburn crank set up is heavier than XTR, it is worth noting that the arms themselves aren't, and that the extra weight comes from those tough, stiff and ultimately long lasting rings. Worth pointing out too that many UK riders replace their stock XTR rings with Middleburns when the time comes, thus negating any weight saving anyway.
Our test cranks use Middleburn's proprietary three bolt setup, but traditional bolt patterns are available as well.
So what exactly are Hardcoat and Slickshift? Hardcoat is a Teflon impregnated ceramic coating that is oh so slippery if you're using an oil coated chain and is very resistant to wear. The teeth are also tough, surviving rock strikes well and generally taking abuse in their stride based on our experience when we've run these rings extensively. Slickshift is slightly simpler and refers to the chain rings being ramped and pinned for smooth shifting, obviously de rigour nowadays, but this wasn't always so and the name has stuck. As well as the Duo, there are the normal triple, single speed and downhill spiders available which means you can pick a style specifically for your needs.
The chain moved over the rings quite well, if slightly slower than the industry leading Shimano standard.
Utilising a standard fit external bottom bracket assembly, you have the choice of many because this crank set doesn't actually come with one. We chose to fit it using a cheap and cheerful Shimano Deore item we had in the toolbox, but if you want something a little longer lasting or with a bit more bling then there are plenty of options out there. With these cranks, the usual 2mm axle spacers are eschewed in favour of a threaded collar on the non drive side to both take up the slack and preload the bearings correctly. This is necessary as the drive side crank arm tightens up onto a fixed position on the splined axle and thus takes no part in the preloading, other than to give the collar something to push against. In reality it's very similar to the system used by Shimano on the XTR, but the collar on these Middleburns doesn't need any specific tools to tighten thanks to its design. Instead it can all be done by hand before nipping up the small pinch bolt to keep it all in place.
A threaded preload collar takes up any slack and preloads the bearings.
Some reviews have cited a lack of stiffness in the arrangement, but it is simply not something that came up as an issue for us during testing. Even the RS7 cranks we have fitted to a V10 which has spent plenty of time racing doesn't make us think that the cranks are too flexible - far from it. Whilst it depends on the type of rider you are these things are all subjective and there is a limit at which it ceases to be an issue or even noticeable. Saying that one stiff crank is slightly less stiff than another stiff crank is a moot point; they're both stiff enough to prevent a 'blind tester' actually telling them apart. There is also, in the opinion of this tester, the potential for a part to be too stiff as the force that would otherwise have been absorbed at one point is simply passed along the chain to the next weakest point. As with all things in life the answer is not clear cut black and white, but if you were to ask if there's noticeable flex in the product when you're using it then the answer would be no. Well, not unless you're either Jabba the Hut (
in which case we aren't so can't comment) or you start comparing it either to Saint or Diablous, both of which are significantly heavier, significantly stronger than most riders need and have the downside of transmitting a lot more sharp un-damped shocks to the rider. It is also an unfair comparison given that these are trail/AM cranks that just so happen to be perfectly strong enough for more than the average downhillers cranking needs.
So what do we think? Being a fan of the older RS7 cranks, we had high hopes for these and we haven't been disappointed during the time we've so far had them on a bike. The shifting has been smooth and remained consistent regardless of the slop, mud, grit and general nastiness we've ridden them in and, once fitted, we simply haven't had to touch them. Fit and forget in the best possible way. In fact, the only thing we can find an issue with is that, as with all color anodized cranks, the black anodizing on these is wearing through on one crank from heel rub, but given that it was our choice to go with black it's no big deal. Bare silver arms are also available and, as these resist noticeable wear significantly better, would be our choice in the future. We're looking forward to the option of an 83mm axle being available so we can get them fitted on the downhill bike too, but in the mean time we'll keep running them as we are on the trail bike.
It would be nice to see a Middleburn bottom bracket included, but this would significantly push the price up and in this case gives riders the option of the full spectrum of those already on the market, from the basic we have fitted right through to those top of the line ceramic offerings. A lifetime warranty on the arms, a multitude of custom options for rings, sizes and spiders, downhill tough at a cross-country weight, at a price that isn't over the top, these are definitely high on our list of favorite cranks right now. Recommended if you're after something that is tough and durable whilst at the same time a little different to what some of the bigger manufacturers have to offer.
Prices with Harcoat and Slickshift rings as appropriate (not including BB):• Uno XC £240
- 32/34/36t available.• Duo XC £279
- as tested, 27/39t and 29/42t combinations are stock.• Triple XC £317
- available in both 4-arm and 5-arm compact sizes.• DH Single £213
- no chainring. | These cranks are definitely worth serious consideration. They're slick, look fantastic and come with a lifetime warranty. That they also work so well almost seems to be a bonus. Highly recommended. - Alasdair |
Check out the
Middleburn website to learn more.
2. Great, another proprietary "standard". Wonderful.
3. In typical Pinkbike fashion the 'review' sounds like a thinly veiled advertisement. I found a single "negative" point in the whole post (the lack of BB) and even that was spun in such a way that it could be taken to be a good thing, because it keeps the price of the cranks down!
I's a great piece of kit. Why hate?
I do kinda agree on the thinly veiled advertisement, but when have you ever read a review on pinkbike that didn't read a little like that? Middleburn have a great reputation for building some of the most durable cranks you can buy. The biggest problem is the lack of 83mm BB, I happened to be talking to one of their engineers at my local DH track over this winter, and he was saying that they weren't sure whether the alloy axle would be durable enough for downhill so they were looking into other materials for it, such as titanium.
The main problem with middleburn is that it'll be years before they're sure that the 83mm axle will be good enough to sell; but that means that when they do, you can be pretty sure it'll stand up to whatever you throw at it.
I meant the three-prong spider design. Another "standard" that bike shops will have to stock.
As for the advertisement - yes, I realize that most Pinkbike reviews are like that. Hence why I wrote "in typical Pinkbike fashion".
A titanium as opposed to aluminum axle would be interesting - not much heavier and hopefully much more durable.
And since it's been out for years, theres little to no need for ordinary bikeshop to stock these since most of people will never have middleburn, will never have that three bolt design on it.
Ordered my pair with uno 32t for jumping use 2 weeks ago from CRC. will see when they arrive since it is parcel force i talk about ^^
Worth the price with king BB, will last me next 5 years with no problems im sure.
i have always found middleburn cranks unbelelievably boring looking, which is a shame considering the cost and quality of middleburns. i like it how the reviewer was trying to say "they arent flexy, but they are and its a good thing, yeah!!,... i think? "
It's probably highly dependent on heat treating and such, but I would trust a titanium spindle 10 times more than an aluminum one.
The reason you remember that you snapped ti-railed saddles is probably because all (or at least the overwhelming majority) regular saddles use chromo rails. If there were saddles with aluminum rails, you'd hear about them snapping far more often than titanium ones.
Companies usually use titanium to make "lightweight" parts, and they keep the tolerances and sizes similar to what they would be with steel, and so they save a good amount of weight... if they were to make it similar in weight, it would end up being much stronger.
I find it funny how you're telling me to read some books on the subject, when you yourself seem to have only read the Wikipedia page for "aluminum".
If we put the term "stiffness" into the context most people use it in, however...
"The stiffness to weight ratio of common materials can be expressed as the ratio of the materials modulus of elasticity (Young's Modulus) divided by its density. If we then scale the resulting stiffness to weight ratio by dividing by the stiffness to weight ratio for steel, we find that most metals (with the exception of beryllium) have almost the same stiffness to weight ratio. Aluminum and titanium are 5% stiffer than steel per unit weight for example."
i agree with you on the titanium weight issue with typical frames/components always being made lightweight. I have spent years trying to find a hardcore titanium frame builder, but to no avail!. the issue (i thought) with aluminium was that to build a frame that wasnt so light it flexed all the time and introduced fatigue to the frame you had to bulk up the dimensions quite a bit - resulting in a very stiff frame/component. but to build an aluminium frame to the same dimensions and wall thickness of say a typical 853 reynolds tubed frame would be asking for disaster. i'm far from an expert on metallurgy but. i was under the impression aluminium was on a par for stiffness only at a weight for weight level... but seeing as aluminium is far lighter than steel......the amount of aluminium you would need to match steel's weight (for a given tube size for example) hardly puts the 2 into the same stiffness category
- There are many cranks that use aluminum spindles. It is nothing new.
- Concerned about looks? I'm more concerned about performance, weight, and the lifetime warranty. Yes, they don't have the look of some of the massive crank sets out there, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
- Concerned about the 3-bolt spider? Then buy RS8's with the standard spider. You can change them out...
- If you read the article you would know that they fit pretty much any BB out there.
They are light, stiff, versatile and come with an impressive warranty... there really isn't much to complain about (although they are not inexpensive). If you looked around you would see that Middleburn does not spend a dime with PB. Just because they get a positive review does not mean anything besides that it is a quality product. If you look at some of the recent reviews, Schwalbe's Rocket Ron, Specialized Stumpy EVO, and the Rapid Racer fender, you'll see that there are plenty of negative points taken into consideration.
The tri-arm spider may be a disadvantage to some when it comes to compatibility but given that I many riders I ride with use Middleburn rings across a wide spectrum of cranks it's a moot point - and if it is an issue, then buy the standard four arm cranks. It's no biggie.
Stiffness isn't an issue - to some riders who break everything they touch you'll want something like Saint/Diablous etc that is massively overbuilt and overly heavy for the average rider. Standard middleburn RS7's are perfectly strong enough for all levels of DH racing with a normal rider onboard. These aren't as stiff as some cranks, ie Saint/Diablous, but at no point when riding are you left thinking that they're flexy, far from it.
As for the aluminium spindle, the item on these cranks is plenty tough - you can see from the end of the axle in the picture above that this is a thick and tough item compared to the weight-weenie option on some ultralight cranks.
The longer an item(of any material) is, the easier it is to bend/break. ie: you can't bend/break a 1" length of 1/4" hardwood dowel with your hands, but yet you can bend/break a 5' length of 1/2" steel rod with your hands(granted one end is anchored)...
The longer it is, the easier to bend/break, simply because added length equals added leverage.
The primarry benefit of a longer spindle, is wider spacing of bearings, resulting in longer bearing life.
As your explanation shows above, it is easy to make it look like anything can be bent easily. However, this is out of context with the topic in hand. For the exact reason that when in the BB there are two points upon which the forces are applied and transferred (granted there is still the two forces that will act in a fashion that will want to arc the spindle, but the effect is hugely smaller due to the extra contact point). As I said before, the axle will be a larger diamerter than the profiles you highlighted (which definitely does increase the strength) and whilst the spindle will be longer (which will make it easier to bend on a longer length per same diameter) I am sure that if they decided to make it out of Ti they will have done countless hours of testing to ensure that their product stands up to everything that it is designed for.
AFAIK.
-yes you can go from a 3 arm to 4 arm spider so you can use any ring you choose
-they are light and strong ive smashed my original set into rocks and they stayed the course with no damage aside of looking like a sledhammer kicked their @$$
we were selling these Middleburn cranks in my old shop last Autumn (2010)...
totally overpriced considering they did not come with either bottom bracket or chain rings, and UK RRP selling at £200!
the 3-piece crankset design is somewhat sketchy, not hard to actually strip out the aluminium mounting bolt and lockring as several of my customers found out, and did not feel anywhere as solid under power as Shimano SLX, XT or Saint
Middleburn made great cranks "back in the day" but admitted they had problems manufacturing an external bearing 2-piece crankset, and from the product they are now selling, they could not solve this problem...and resorted to a 3-piece crankset where 1 arm is temporarily bolted in place?
not impressed, I'll keep my Shimano HT2 cranks, which have never let me down...in terms of easy fitment, strength-to-weight ratio, durability and sheer value for money, not to mention awesome shifting performance
we also had nothing but ongoing trouble with gear shifting, using Middleburn ramped shifting chainrings for our customers, and resorted to switching these customers to non-shifting rings (resulting in slow upshifts) to solve chainsuck and jamming problems - middleburn shifting rings are years behind shimano and Sram in terms of triple or dual shifting rings!
I am all for supporting UK companies that make "performance parts" (like Hope or Renthal) and would give Middleburn kudos for their UK made DH non-shifting chainrings, but not the cranks or shifting rings
This is a work horse product for Xc/trail riding and most possibly AM, not a star for design beauty contest or bike performance summit for engineers and nerds
PinkBike as a whole caters to the Dher not the trailking. however i would assume that 75% of its users do alot of trail work on AM bikes, so to be fair, i think that these cranks should be reviewed. middleburn have a huge legacy of reliable and strong cranks, but part of me reckons that they dont have the resources to change the actual design of the arm, but still needed to change something to get back into the market. personally i reckon they have got it wrong and should have invested in making it 2 piece and keeping a steel axle. Theres too many ifs and buts with this crank which for the cost is not acceptable. what would be pretty cool is if they joined up with the other bespoke manufacturer of pretty things (with more or less the same warranty ethics and build ethics) and supplied a top of the range CK bottombracket with this crank
I'll be more than honest with you: the ultimate reason I will choose these over Shimano is a "doing a better thing to the world" value and supporting smaller ones rather than big companies. These are surely not that advanced product as some from other companies. Honestly - when taking into account rationality only, I would say there is nothing better than Shimano cranks, even if there is a slight performance advantage -> Shimano kills it with lower price. To me the average of pros and cons makes Shimano SLX, XT, XTR and Saint cranksets the Kings of Cranks in every category. Everytime, RF, SRAM , FSA or whoever makes something slightly lighter or stiffer, perhaps more reliable, it is way more expensive, and the law of diminishing returns points back at Japs. And if I can choose a company doing stuff in Far East VS company doing stuff in Far East or America - well I choose the better ones.
SLX particularly is for me the best crankset of all times and nothing comes close - that's why it's on my bike. But when it dies, Middleburn or somethign similar - will replace it as i believe supporting a company from as close to where you live, manufacturing at their site: is just a good or at least better thing to do.
CK?! - ah U Scottish fellow, must be really hating Brits to choose it over cheaper and probably as good or better HOPE ceramics
take it easy and sorry again, for being a dick to you in past threads
14stone hard riding rider on hardtails
square taper BB - typically lasted me 2 years but always ended up buying new cranks before new BB as the squaretaper knackered inside the crank and thats where most of my creaking came from. I also have once snapped an axle on a XT squaretaper.
octalink - 1 year, again terrible problem with creaking cranks
isis - 1 month was my worst, 5 months was my best, went through 8 in one year (all raceface) all were warrantied. no creaking with cranks though :-)
X-type - totally depends on make/quailty shimano typically 15months
raceface - typically 8months
FSA - 2 weeks lol
superstar - 1 year
Hope ceramic - 3years
and of course no creaking cranks from x type .
whilst the square taper lasted me the longest in terms of cost/value i noticed a huge difference going from square taper to octalink in terms of stiffness. and again in stiffnes from isis to X-type.
in my humble opinion x-type is by far and away the best, most cost effective and easiest to maintain setup around. although i reckon the HIVE setup looks the bomb
As far as BB lasting, I've been pretty much the opposite. Any out board BB's I've ever used have lasted less time under me than the older ISIS units, but your experience is certainly the norm. I haven't had any better luck with the new Press Fit standard either...