Pinkbike's Burning Question - Should You Support Your Local Bike Shop or Buy Online?
THE
BURNING QUESTION
BURNING QUESTION
WORDS Mike Kazimer
Today's burning question is: Should you support your local bike shop or buy online? Weighing in from the local bike shop side of this debate is John Franzky from Bow Cycle, located in Calgary, Alberta. On the other side we have Matt Cole representing Chain Reaction Cycles, the world's largest online bike store. We also asked Kevin Menard, co-owner of Transition Bikes and Mark Graff, the co-founder of SmartEtailing.com, for their views on this topic.
Pinkbike Pre-Game Show
In today's interconnected world it's possible to go online and with a few clicks, plus a valid credit card number, have a complete new downhill bike delivered right to your doorstep. Plus, the smartphone gives shoppers access to more information than ever before. Consumers can view product reviews and price comparisons with just a swipe of the finger, even from inside their local bike shop. In what has been termed “showrooming,” customers are now using their local bike shop as a showroom to try on clothing and look at accessories, then going home to buy the products online, often at a deep discount. In a recent Pinkbike poll, over fifty percent of respondents said they mostly purchase cycling gear and components from on-line retailers, while thirty-five percent bought from retail bike shops. As online retailers continue to grow and increase their ability to offer products at a discounted price, can local bike shops compete?Local Bike Shop vs. Online Store
 John Franzky: Bow Cycle
It doesn't look like your web site offers the option to purchase items online. What is the reasoning behind this? Do you have plans to enter the online marketplace in the future? "Right now Bow Cycle is not set up for online shopping. We do take payments online, but most of the time products get picked up in store. One of the reasons we do not have online shopping is our dealer contracts state that bicycles cannot be sold online. We respect our suppliers and the relationship with them so we adhere to the rules. Plus, all bikes sold out of Bow Cycle need to be set up by Bow Cycle according to our dealer contracts. "For online shopping, we feel to do it right the product has to get out the door the same day. Attention to the online orders has to be immediate and the inventory has to be accurate in real time. To do this you need people in place and an inventory system that can deal with the online product linking to your on-hand inventory. Our system does not do that easily and right now we want the staff talking to the people that come in our door, not a computer. I think statistics say 64% of all consumers will make an online purchase each year. With this type of statistic it does drive Bow Cycle to look into an online component for the store. Bow Cycle's owners are still questioning who the online buyer is. Is it someone looking for discounted product or is it someone looking for the convenience of online shopping? I think it is both, with the question being which online consumer is driving the online market? Convenience customer or price customer?" Has the growth of online shopping caused you to make any changes in deciding which items to stock in the store? "Not really, people still like to be able to see and handle new cool products. We buy what we think our customers are looking for, and try to keep up on new trends and support our customers' product requests." Are you less likely to carry a brand if it's available from the larger online retailers? "It does come into play somewhat; we need to stock our store with quality product. There is some product you can’t get away from selling in store that competes with online. Our relationship with suppliers also plays into these decisions. We want to support suppliers that are IBD (independent bicycle retailer) focused." As a local bike shop, what techniques do you use to stand out over large online retailers? Why should consumers go to their local bike shop vs. an online store? "The 'technique' we use is basic customer service. This is our number one priority. Treat everyone the same regardless of their two wheel choice or quality. We are all bike riders. The relationships you build with your customers are huge. People like to go to the shop, smell the rubber and talk with like-minded people. The shop people will have first hand info on what works and how it works. Plus, the customer may have a chance to try the product before they buy. Another reason is warranty issues. A shop can deal with them quickly, offering a loaner item or a bike if needed. Online cannot do this. I have had customers flat out tell me they choose to buy from a bike shop to have the confidence of knowing they will deal with a problem if it arises." As online shopping continues to grow, how do you see the role of the local bike shop evolving over the next five years? "The local bike shop will survive. The customer service game has to be upheld and get higher in order to compete against online sales. Dealers will have to be attentive to pricing but still remain profitable. Most people understand the overhead cost of running a retail business vs. online overhead cost. I think people want to support the local shop and other local retail establishments to keep their economy strong. With cycling growing and receiving attention from the municipal level this is bringing a whole group of new cyclist into the market. Along with “sales” customer service, the repair side needs to have the same high standard as well. You cannot bring your bike into an online store, but you can bring it into your local bike shop. And, I bet the trip to your local shop will be a bit more fun than a trip on the world wide web."  The Bow Cycle storefront. |  Matt Cole: Chain Reaction Cycles
Who's buying online? Do you think the younger generations are fueling online sales? "For younger riders, online shopping is becoming the norm, but the benefits of online are there for every age and every type of rider to take advantage of. Customer behaviour is constantly changing too, with more people browsing and ordering via mobile devices. Gone are the days when you were tucked away ordering a list of new spares on the desktop in the corner of the room – now people are watching TV, for example, while browsing the latest bike kit and accessories on the market via their iPad." What segment of cycling (mountain bikes, road bikes, etc...) makes up the largest percentage of your sales? "Chain Reaction Cycles’ beginnings were in the off-road segment, where we stocked specialist brands like GT, Marin, Proflex and Cannondale during the early days, and we continue to offer thousands of mountain bikes, parts, clothing and accessories. We’ve also developed a huge customer base in road, triathlon and BMX which have seen massive increases especially given the recent boom in sportive-type rides and the rise in popularity of amateur triathlon races around the globe." What do you see as the greatest advantage of shopping online? What does Chain Reaction Cycles offer that local bike shops don't? "We were founded as a local family-run bike shop, and we continue with two stores – one connected to our warehouse and another in Belfast – so we’re in a unique position in having local outlets with a huge stock offering. "Everything we’ve done since the company’s inception in 1985 has been geared towards providing the best possible products and service to our customers and it’s those values that we pride ourselves on to this day. Our product range, in-stock availability and prices are major advantages to shopping online, but the pre-purchase support and after-care we offer is also something that sets us apart. "We have a 12-month, 365-day hassle-free returns service, a full warranty policy, a 120-man strong customer service team who can be contacted via email or phone made up of a highly qualified Tech Team with all the bike knowledge you could ask for and an international group of advisors on hand who can offer support in seven different languages, including Japanese, Russian, French, Italian, Spanish, Portugese and German." Chain Reaction Cycles has almost 800k Facebook fans. To what do you credit CRC's success with social media? "Chain Reaction Cycles is a rider-run company, made up of people just like our customers and fans – we love nothing better than getting out there in the great outdoors during our downtime, and it’s this passion that we think brings people closer to us via the likes of Facebook, Twitter, Pinterest, Instagram, ChainReactionHub.com, YouTube and Vimeo. "Facebook and social media in general is the perfect platform to connect with our customers like never before, giving us an outlet to put our personality across and since joining we’ve offered followers a rich helping of content from exclusive competitions, the latest bike tech news, photos and more. We’re very careful in not using Facebook to just push sales and promotions, and we think our fans respect us for this." What are your thought on the practice of “showrooming,” where customers check out items at their local bike shop, but then go home and purchase the items online? "Our goal is to have the most enriched content online so that customers are equipped with all the details they need to make a purchase. We aim to have product specs and descriptions, 360-degree image views, video buyer’s guides, fit guides, and size guides where applicable and we have a dedicated Tech Team who are on hand to offer technical support whether you’ve got a straightforward question on crank compatibility or an in-depth query on bleeding your disc brakes. We always welcome feedback so we can continue to furnish our customers with all the information they need." How do you see the role of the local bike shop evolving over the next five years? What do you think they can do to ensure they stay viable? "Founded as a local bike shop in 1985 and now with two stores in the immediate area, we constantly aim to meet the needs of our local customers. What we try to do in our local stores, as well as our retail offering, is try to be an invaluable source for local riders, becoming a real hub for the cycling community – providing workshop support, running regular maintenance courses, free seminars on bike technique and training, gait analysis, bike fit, providing info for local races, group rides, spins and the like. So in the context of what we’re trying to do we feel that the future is good for the local bike shop." |
Industry Opinions
 Kevin Menard: Co-owner of Transition Bikes
Do you have pricing rules in effect for shops selling online versus in a store? “Yes, we have rules in general. We're pretty firm – we only have two or three shops that can sell online. You have to have a physical storefront to be able to sell online. We did that for control reasons, so we can keep an eye on how people are marketing themselves on the internet. If you have a lot of online retailers it's very difficult to police. We have policies that if you're an online retailer you can't sell to a foreign country where we have a distributor, and you need to sell at MSRP, except for closeouts, which have set prices. Basically, it's all about keeping the playing field level. We realize we have a niche product, and we won't have a dealer in every town. There are going to be a lot people that just don't have a dealer that even knows about the product. That's where there is a lot of value in internet shops. I think when you get to a bike of our caliber you need some personalization on the internet. A drop-to-cart feature for a $4000 bike seems ridiculous. "So many shops have these SmartEtailing carts now. A lot of new shops open and they think when they have a website and can sell online the floodgates are going to open. It's just not like that. There aren't millions of people wanting to buy bikes at retail on the internet. We try to talk people out of that. You're not really missing out, especially if you're a new website that doesn't rank well in search results. Everyone wants to do it – they think it's the holy grail. And I think some guys do really well, but they've taken a marketing approach to it and really focused on it." Have you run into issue with counterfeit product, or unauthorized sites selling Transition brand items? "I've never seen any counterfeit product, but occasionally sites will put up stuff on their web store that wasn't authorized. We've had cases in the past where sites were putting up product and discounting it. Not a huge deal, you just need to police it. We keep a pretty tight reign on it." With online sales in general taking off, do you see the role of the local bike shop changing at all? "I've always been an internet guy. Personally, when I shop, like for clothes, a lot of times I'm shopping online. But, for the bike shop experience I've found that when I've utilized my local bike shop it was when I needed something right away or needed help with a repair. They just have that expertise. I think the role of a bike shop is to create relationships with individuals in the community. They become connected to that shop. It's very hard to connect with a website. A good bike shop will create a relationship – they become your buddy. A good shop will have the products you need when you need them. I think internet shops do well because a lot of local bike shops don't cater to an individual's riding style. They don't have, say, replacement parts for a Hope brake, or they don't know how to work on a suspension fork or bleed a brake. I see a lot of people become more self-sufficient and relying on the internet because of this. But, I still feel like the brick and mortar shop is always going to be strong if they focus on that relationship with the customer. I don't think a shop should ever be afraid of internet business if they know who their customers are and what they want. I do hear some grumbling about the discounting of model year product by the larger online retailers. Items like forks and shifters and brakes – that sort of thing is detrimental to the industry. It devalues product when it shouldn't be devalued, and I think bike manufacturers and component manufacturers need to police that. It's not necessarily the fault of the online retailers. Shops get pissed off at the websites because they're selling model year bikes and model year products for below MSRP, but it really should be the manufacturers that put their foot down and say they're pulling their product out. I think there's some joint responsibility, but at the end of the day the manufacturer is the one selling the product – they have the control. I think the two can coexist really well as long as there are some checks and balances." |  Mark Graff: Co-founder, SmartEtailing.com
With search results dominated by the bigger retailers, can independent bike shops hope to compete in the world of online shopping? "Actually, I disagree with two elements in your question: first, that search results are “dominated” by bigger retailers. You only have to consider what “near me now” means in today’s search offering to realize that the new focus of search is locally directed purchases. Sure, paid search budgets from larger firms are going to make it possible for these entities to maintain a presence, often in the absence of more relevant, local results. Yet the power of local access, which includes ease of returns and handling service issues, can’t be underestimated. Second, consumers today don’t think about shopping 'online' or 'offline.' The variety of connected devices and the nearly ever-present access has led to what observers today have labeled as omni-channel shopping. It means that consumers expect companies, including retailers, to be wherever and however they wish to interact. The good news for local retailers is that services such as ours help them match or even go beyond what some of the larger firms currently can provide." As the internet and online shopping have grown how have you seen the role of the brick and mortar store change? "We consider the future of local specialty retailing to be more vibrant than ever. There’s only so much satisfaction that can come from impersonal packages being dropped at your doorstep. There’s magic in retail that a flat-panel display can’t match. The service and sizing components of matching product to people is also a key differentiator. Yet, bicycling is not about products. The products are simply a means to the end, which is the experience. This is where local specialty stores will always have the edge (unless they’re simply not willing to put forth the effort). From advocating for access to promoting and sponsoring rides and events, local bicycle retailers play a direct role in improving the lives of people in their communities." What makes SmartEtailing different from other software options out there? "We work hard to tailor our web-based applications to the exact needs of our clients, yet software is only one-third of our solution. Another important element we bring is expertly prepared content. Our team of content professionals have intimate knowledge of the products and topics that they write about, plus they know how to present the information so that it’s fully accessible and helpful to consumers on behalf of specialty stores that present it. This highlights our third major difference, our people; in addition to our content creators, we also have a dedicated team of retail consultants and technical pros that offer assistance whenever our clients have questions. Many of our staff have owned or managed specialty stores. They know the challenges and opportunities firsthand and are able to go well beyond the kind of basic help-desk assistance that you typically hear is what’s offered by technology firms." What can independent bike shops do to encourage customers to physically step through their doors? "Start by recognizing that customers start thinking about their purchases and where they will spend their dollars long before they come to the store and, in some cases, may not need to visit. Therefore, stores need to respect how their customers wish to buy from them. This means making your store accessible via all of the ways that consumers shop. Yes, it means you need to adopt new processes and be proficient with these so that you achieve the same consistent levels of customer satisfaction that you’ve worked hard to provide within the walls of your physical store." |
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In my town most bikeshops have no idea what they are doing and i most of time have to fix what they installed....
So when i wanted to get a triple crown fork i went to the next bigger city and asked in 4 different shops which forks they recommended the reply's i got:
"your not going to buy here anyways... a boxxer race is 899€ + 50€ for installation (more than mrp???)"
"Just go online"
all the way to "get out your just gonna go online and get it there!"
Really im trying to find a LBS that i want to support, with the previous ones it was me trying to get to be a customer and them trying to get me to buy online?!
W
Online retailers and LBS should start joint ventures:
- One online platform (e.g. CRC) to order and leave me the choice of picking it up or send it to my home. If pick up is my choice, the online retailer shows me the LBS where the product is available. The LBS gets The LBS pays a small fee for the services of the online retailer. If "home"is my choice the online retailer sends it straight to my home.
- Dense network of LBS with "lockers" where the pick up is possible at any given time, give the customer a code to enter the specific locker. And during opening times inside the store. The online-retailer supports the LBS to invest in lockers and stock-management.
If both channels are able to pull this off, you have many happy customers. It is all about logistics.
I feel full support of a LBS will depend from person to person based on where they are in life financially. when i'm done and have a job and am hopefully making enough money I do plan on fully supporting my LBS.
Cyclists usually have no problem with getting out of their houses
That being said there are great LBS's out there, just not close enough to me to make it worth while.
Having said that, will they give me close to cost on items because I worked there? Heck no. Will they give me 1500 worth of parts for under a 1000? Probably not. Sometimes, you do what you have to do. I don't see why pinkbike needs to bring this issue up over and over, its almost like a broken record. Its sort of like they sit at their head office and get bored, so they want to stir sh*t up! haha. Anyways, buy where ever you need to, LBS's aren't going anywhere.
Walk in the door, and talk to the people, and see the difference. Talk about your riding, the bike you've got, etc., and build a relationship. THEN ask what the price is on product XYZ, you'll undoubtedly get a different price then the guy who just calls in.
In addition there's the non-monetary value you get from the LBS: sure they'll give you discounts on product as a long-term customer, but additionally their employees will become your friends, they'll lend you their own personal bikes to ride. The shop will always fight for you when a vendor is questioning the validity of a warranty claim. The list of great friends that I have from my time at the LBS is long. I invited many of them to my fricking wedding!!
As mentioned in the article, a quality LBS will have loaner parts - we had (they still have, I'm sure) forks, wheels, full bikes, and more, all available as loaners when our top customers were going to be down a bike or part for an extended period of time. Our goal was to be sure you were always able to ride!
The relationship that you'll build with real people versus buying from an online "e-tailer" kicks the crap out of the short-term monetary savings you'll get.
When I bought used brakes off Pinkbike only to realize I needed service, I brought them into one shop and received a lecture about how I wasn't supporting local business, etc.. I felt like asking him if I could see his refrigerator to see the C.o.O.L. on his food...I went in there willing to pay whatever it takes and just just got shat on and guilt tripped.
This shop is in the used parts business and does trade-ins, and when I asked him if I could trade in some small spare parts he gave me a condescending response about how he can't make any money off of that--how about a yes or no! When he realized I wanted a full tune-up for my bike and my little brother's, plus this brake work, and a fork installation (I don't know how to remove or install a crown race) done he eased off, accepted the trade-in, and gave me a deal on the service cost. Money talks, right?
Having said all this, I'm actually now a repeat customer because they do excellent repairs and started giving me good prices. I just didn't like being talked down to like that, especially since I wasn't pushy in the slightest, albeit a little ignorant.
Anyone else ever gotten similar lectures from shops?
The problem is that attitude of "well I can get it cheaper" only makes your LBS worse. The more traffic, the higher volume you put through your shop, the better deal they can score parts for, the better distributors they can do business with, that's how online shops are dominating right now.
Also @valtra up there, yes I have gotten that. The shop I work for used to be the shop I hung out at as a kid, and the condescension did suck, but keep something in mind, while in your story puts you in a good place with something to offer, day in and day out people want to trade in supercycles, rusted, stolen, hacksaw bikes and parts even in shops that clearly don't do trade-ins.
Why the heck should I have to keep going to some LBS and spending more on bike parts and trying to make the staff like me, just so I can get a price that's almost as good as online prices? The only bike shop within 50m of me worth visiting is the warehouse showroom for a large online bike retailer... They are open long hours and have good service and good prices, if I'm desperate for a part, that's where I'll go.
And to those who worry about their LBS disappearing and no one being able to bleed their brakes for them... Go on a college course... The most difficult thing to do on a bike is build wheels (IMO) and even that only takes a few months to become proficient at (and a lifetime to master of course
Another factor which is actually allowing online retailers the advantage is that some online retailers are finding ways to sell product to other countries despite the vendor agreements against it. I have no idea how this can be controlled but it's affecting the distribution network in a big way driving cost of parts up even for the LBS.
IMO a LBS should introduce three things to become more competitive:
1. Online purchasing, Completely adhering to the vendors sales restrictions.
2. Competitive market prices
3. Offer to sell on concession or used bikes/parts.
Why doesnt the LBS have a parts exchange service like hmv or blockbuster?
I buy a lot of second hand parts, my current fork (08 1.5" marrzo 66) and headset i got for 150 quid.
The larger problem I see with some shops..you almost have to make the staff like you in order to get a slightly better price on anything. Most customers don't feel like doing that anymore when they can go onto CRC, get a part at 35 percent off the tag price WITHOUT trying to beg or haggle and get the part overnight. Of course the LBS has to make a profit but in this digital age where you can surf for low costing parts, it shouldn't be surprising to see people leaning towards online shopping.
That being said, I only ever shop at LBSs for my bike equipment because 1. I prefer supporting small local businesses over Corporations and 2. I can get the part NOW with support if anything goes wrong.
Of course this isn't the story for everyone, so trying to demonize people that shop online is absolutely silly. Some people these days simply can't afford the prices a LBS offers.
Mind you, like I said, MSRP is set by the company to their research or local market values. That product then goes to a distributor somewhere else who determines their own profits, who then sends those to shops who are at the mercy of how much volume their store is low traffic, and low volume, what power do they have to demand better prices from a distributor? "Give me better prices or I wont order all of the 20 bikes my shop brings in yearly" as if that would touch them.
Mostly as I said keep in mind, that just because MSRP is $1, does not mean by charging $3 that the shop is making $2, because an easy $1 goes to the distributor, and 50 cents goes to paying the employees, thus the shop makes 50 cents on 3 dollars in that example, so you tell me why a shop would want to cut that small profit again?>
Someone made a good example here:
bikefat.com/are-you-a-good-bike-shop-customer
I have to re-iterate what I said previously: I disagree that I should have to work to earn a bike shop's favour, if anything it should be the other way around. I'm a paying customer, who wants a shop to have competitive prices (I don't expect them to match CRC on everything, but I will never pay over MRRP, or considerably over the prices available on-line), a good selection of parts, and staff who actually know what they're talking about and have the customer service / social skills to make my transaction a pleasant one. It's hardly an unreasonable expectation is it? That's how business in the capitalist world works.
Back in the late 90's when on-line stores were not around in the format they are now, the three local bike shops in town were great. I used to pop in when passing any of these shops just to chat with the people inside, and despite the fact it was probably quite annoying to have a teenager with little spending power taking up their time, the staff in these shops always seemed happy to help in any way they could, and so what little money I had from my paper round was spent in their shops.
Fast forward to today: There are numerous bike shops within 50 miles of where I live, but only one can tick the three necessary boxes for me. The rest fail on one or more of the following:
1. Price (and NO I do not want to have to make them a F$%^*& BFF bracelet to get access to reasonable prices! It's their job to build rapport with me, not the other way around)
2. Stock selection
3. Customer service
Well that's good for you coming from the other side of the counter, I'm starting to see what kind of customer you are, and I'm glad you shop online.
Take the music/movie rental industry, and project it 10 years, that's an extreme we're looking at for bikes, not a certain one but it could very well go that way at the current rate.
As explained, MSRP does not mean it's worth the same everywhere you go. If Rockshox says MSRP on a fork is $550, and you wonder why it's $650 at your shop, that's probably because the distributor which I wont name the few I'd get from back here for my own sake, charge about 3/4 that MSRP to us, the shop. On top of that we have to pay shipping and taxes like any other person on the face of the planet. Now tell me why I would charge MSRP, only to barely make $50 on the part, because by your logic I should do that for everybody, and then we go out of business, and then where am I?
Not sure if you feel a difference in the last several years but I seem to think the bicycle buying market has grown significantly. I see more mountain bikers and road riders then ever and think at the rate the sport is growing there should be a balance or increase in customers shopping at a brick and mortar to offset the people switching to online. Thoughts?
Also major props to pinkbike for putting this up it's a neutral point of view that people can read and discuss with other users.
With that being said there are forces at play in this situation that should be addressed. First is that I have only recently become financially secure enough to 'afford' to be able to shop at an LBS. Prior to now my gear purchasing decisions were between CL and Ebay. I have always wanted to support my LBS, but in the end I'm here to ride, not support a business. So basically what I'm trying to say is deep down most people want to buy from their LBS but simply can't afford it.
Second, my "corporations are not people" alarms start ringing whenever a business wants me to make sacrifices in order to make a profit. Its the same feeling I get when people talk about farm subsidies going to Monsanto or bailouts going huge banks. Love it or hate we exist in a capitalistic society, the basic premise of which is businesses fail and thrive based on their ability to offer a desired product at a competitive price and it drives me out of my f-ing mind when they do neither yet feel somehow entitled to exist based on some emotional argument, like we're local or a family business or super hip.
End of rant. Move along.
I see what you're getting at with the music/film comparison, however LBS's are able to offer things music and film shops cannot (at least not as "naturally") - mechanical expertise, the ability to become the hub of the local riding community with charity events, interaction with local schools, youth community projects etc... and the opportunity to provide courses, whether it's mechanical or riding skills. Bike shops can certainly survive, but it's hardly surprising that their nature may need to change from the pre internet era (like many other businesses) to be successful.
With regards to the MRRP, LBS's perhaps need to address this with either rockshox or the distributor directly, as a large group of LBS's working together, rather than singly. As for "why" you would charge MRRP on an item... Simply put: market forces. Why would I pay $650 for some forks when I can probably go on-line and find them at $500? I appreciate your predicament, obviously you can't sell them at a loss, you've got bills to pay and food to put on the table like everyone else. Remember though, everyone else has bills to pay and food to put on the table, and $150 can be spent elsewhere...
Obviously my opinions are based on my experience of UK bike shops, primarily those based around the south east, the situation may be different in other parts of the world.
Shops have bills, fees, and competitive markets.
Customers have bills, fees and other costs of living just the same.
Okay now I see this point you're trying to make, but let's put it again into a perspective where both are true to their inherent natures.
Customers have bills, every citizen of our societies has some tax or duty to pay, somewhere down the line. You choose to partake in a sport that you know is a luxury, we all know it, we do not NEED all the fancy things we buy, we WANT a better version of what we need.
Shops NEED to pay employees, educate/train employees, pick the best of employees, arrange strict business deals with strict ruling distributors, and all on top of that, compete with 4 shops within the region, and a dozen online.
The reason online can offer for less is simple, less cost of operation, mind you originally it's a heavy investment, but in the long run the cost/profit ratio would be insane for an online shop, literally 5 people could run 80% of the average online shop, with half the man hours and resources wasted.
When you pay $150 more, you're investing in mechanics, a community of cycling events LOCAL to you, and giving back mostly of all, to YOUR community, and if that isn't enough reason than you should probably go back to school and study the economy. It's not even the companies profit, it's all the people in between getting it to you.
These events are happening less, these competitions move farther away and disappear, and the skatepark quality is just pathetic but lets face it, who's going to foot the bill? not struggling LBSs.
If you don't support your LBS, one day, it'll be gone and all we'll have are online bike stores to buy from. Where can we get specialist help from, like bleeding brakes or headset pressing from if we don't have an LBS? I'm pretty sure headset presses cost a lot too.
I know the people in my LBS and they're a great shop/people (C&D Cycles) But I guess not can be said for all shops. If your LBS people are good, buy from them. Online retailers are killing LBS's with cheap deals.
Just remember, not everybody knows bike mechanics, nor have the tools to fix their bikes. Bike shops do, and have good people with good advice for anybody who's stuck with a technical problem. CRC aren't going to be able to help if you're in England or Canada (for example) when your bike is f**ked.
For people saying "bike shops are the biggest rip off." - think about shops having to make a profit. They're small against big giants like CRC who're online retailers and don't make as much profit!!
Support your LBS as much as you can people.
My point? Invest $500-800 in tools, learn how to do the repairs yourself, and buy your components online. I will support my LBS if they provide good service, but truthfully, a good LBS is a rare species in Prince George BC.
As I said I buy DJ/Street parts from 26bikes and CRC because I know they will have them, while I don't want the LBS to order just for me, plus they migh not work with the brand I want.
The LBS guy knows about what he sells so when I need anything for AM I'll go there because I know I'll get a great advice and a little bit of discount, not as much as online, but it's nice.
@Psyclist I don't buy like you I actually buy things like frames, forks and so on the Internet because my LBS doesn't work with Octane One, RMD nor Dartmoor when it comes to servicing, small parts and wheelsets I get them from him
Can't find a good bike shop in PG??? You are referring to Prince George B.C.? Located about 800km north of Vancouver? The small city that has 4 amazing bike shops, 2 of which have great mechanics? Go see Merle at The Northern or Adam at Ruckus, both have been bike mechanics for 10+ years, always helpful & give great advice. The other shops have decent mechanics & are always ready to help. Ten years ago the situation was a little different but now PG has a great local scene that supports riding (friday night rides at Otway see Dave at Cycle Logic) in my experience all the shops go the extra mile to get business.
Every time I go to my LBS, they are stroppy, slow (leave your bike for two days, we'll get it done when we can be arsed) and the prices are way higher. Some people are lucky to have a nice LBS, I'm not.
I still buy some small stuff from them (ie: lube, grips, chains, etc.). By the looks of it, I'm not the only one that's turned to shopping online. I miss hucknroll.com
If i want to get a part like a new shock spring, Saint brake pads or DH tyres they charge me 3 times the price of an online dealer and it will take the same amount of time. If not longer to order....thats if the dude actually ordered it on time, not 3 days later because he forgot.....
Even parts for my 4X and AM bike are few and far between.
I once ordered a lower linkage on my Reign x1. It took 4 months! FROM A GIANT LBS!! wtf. fuk you!
(CRC sent me new tyres in 3 DAYS over Christmas... and i have no chance to get them from my LBS. Plain old Minions btw)
Not to mention the terrible workshop staff most LBS have (no idea wants going on, damaging parts, marking frames, 1/2 bleeding brakes etc)
They are a blessing in disguise i like to think... If it wasnt for them i would have never spent countless hours researching how each part goes together and what works for me. Therefore i take better care of my bike and components and understand how things such as my fork and brakes work. And therefore i need to spend less time at my LBSs.
And had a tonne of fun doing it.
Back when i was a noob there was two bike shops in my area.
1. Was fanfukentastic. Always gave me advice, helped me work out problems. Always would have a chat. And get parts in asap.
2. Sold Entry lvl bikes. Crap parts for increased prices. Crap service. Laughed me for once asking for a part.
Guess which one survived.... Fuken number 2. A shop with a workshop that seems to make most of its money fixing flats on 10year old kids bikes.
Of the 15 or so good LBS around Sydney. There is only one ill go to. Its 45mins from my house (TBSM)
Yet they still sell stuff for double what CRC does.
I hate to say this, but as someone who can fix almost everything on my bike, the LBS offers nothing for me.
Think about our sport and who puts on the local events near you. Where I live, local bike shops are the heart of almost every event and race near by. Here at Cowichan Cycles where I work, we are hosting 2 downhill races, 1 cross country race, one cyclocross race, and one multi day mountain bike festival to develop mountain biking in our home town, and that's just our shop alone. My point is that by killing off the bike shop, you are killing the growth of mountain biking. Bike shops provide a community, support events, maintain trails and genuinely care about all riders, wheather they are our own customers or not. What kind of online retailer would lend their own personal bike to a customer who is waiting on a repair? Our local bike shop just did.
I understand that there are times when cash is tight or a deal is too good to miss and online retailers make sense. However, I think anyone purchasing something online should ask themselves if that extra few bucks is worth it. We have all used our local bike shops, and they are always there when your online purchased parts fail, but what if one day they are not. Buy from your local bike shop, and look at that little extra cash as an investment in our sport.
www.bikemag.com/blog/the-bakery-for-the-love-of-independent-bike-shops
What do you think ??
If that doesn't sound good then what does!
Phone number's 01463 729500
www.facebook.com/Monsterbikeshop?fref=ts
Hope that helps you!
Don't get me wrong, I understand the lure of the internet and have bought over the internet many times for items I can't find elsewhere. However as an employee in a LBS, the most insulting, rude (and unfortunately increasingly common) problem we are experiencing is customers who seek our free knowledge, want to find out what size bike or helmet they need, take up sometimes hours of our time with sizing and set-up and then casually slip in that they will be buying it on line, or worse, search for the product on line in front of you then demand a discount "because CRC/Wiggle are selling it for this". Discount is earned via loyalty, and will always be given to repeat customers, it is not given because "on-line says this". Of course I, like many if not most sales assistants in the trade do not work on commission, I am salaried, so realistically there is nothing but the satisfaction of someone buying the right bike and being thrilled to bits with it as a reward for me, I want to hear stories of the "first time I took it to Wales", that's enough to keep me doing it, I doubt most/any on-line retailers give a damn, whereas friendships are forged in a LBS, customers become riding buddies...
In the long run I think I've saved money by shopping at my LBS, but I also have a large number of riding buddies too. And how much are they worth? Heaps!
The best way to get a discount from your LBS is to NEVER ASK FOR A DISCOUNT!
Business nowadays is looking only for fast and vast profits (low investment - high output). Not many out there are interested in consumers, how long the product will last, the quality of the product and how to make everyone happy. Of course that involves long term business strategy, lower profits in the short term, etc. My verdict is to not be crazy and stay logical about spending your hard earned coin. After all it is up buyers and users to decide whether they agree to buy that product for that price or not thus influence the market this way.
Ill admit I have been to local shops and browsed the stocks and items then gone home and purchased online with easily 25% less on the price and that is no hassle delivered to the door...
Chainreactioncycles & superstar.tibolts.co.uk, ALL THE WAY...
Here in canada, it's another game. there's distributors in the way (norco, OGC, cycles lambert etc...) who make a a way to big of a marging, they often make a 100% profit on parts before the bike shop get to sell something that is now way overpriced compared to online shops...i know i work and managed many shops and sales whent down on certain items...especially suspensions and high end parts...when i asked one of the distributors if they would adjust and reduce their share to make it easier on us...they said they would do something, only to find out in my next year catalogue that my cost stayed the same but the MSRP went down by 15-20%....way to go you fat cake eaters, thanks for killing the small local shops here in canada...some bigger shops may do better due to high volume but a shop located in a smaller town can't cope with this and can't rely only on service and repairs...at the end of it it's all about money...i droped the shop and went and did something else and when i need bike parts i go online, because most of the time chain reaction's prices are lower than what my dealer cost was....
I agree that we get royally screwed here in Canada when it comes to buying bicycle parts- thats why I started up my own online retailing store. There is an obvious need for people like me to get people the parts they need/want (!) that are comparable pricing in the USA/UK. There should NOT be such a price disparity here in Canada !!!!!!
When the prices come down at LBS for parts prices at the same level as USA or UK - then I will end my business happy and fulfilled : my ultimate goal is to get those prices down here in Canada so everyone can enjoy the main event : JUST RIDING YOUR STYLIN' BIKE !!!!!
@zoopla... its amusing that cycles lambert won't open an account with an online only shop, but they themselves last year started an online-only sales account to clear inventory on ebay.
stores.ebay.ca/DRAGON-SPINZ
I myself get my inventory from wherever is cheapest. I've never had any loyalty to one particular method (local store, online, distributor(s), etc). As it happens I was sorting thru invoices and receipts last night and found ones from eight years ago and was reading them and could recall a few parts that I still had, or had recently sold, that I made a ridiculous profit on. In 2004 Babac had a summer clearance on NOS Joe Murray Foldable tires, $3.95 each. I bought twenty or so of them. A few weeks ago I sold the last pair I had of them for $40 each to a guy in spain. I remember about 12 of them sold to a LBS in toronto for $25 each only a few months after I bought them. A few months after I bought the tires I was at a garage type business here in town, old retiree who runs weekend sales out of his driveway/garage all summer long / every summer, and in the rafters of his garage were a dozen boxes of those tires so obviously he had a babac account also.
i'm also aware of that dragon-spinz ebay store that sales all of cycle lambert unwanted parts at discounted price...his name is DAVE TURGEON and i have already informed a buch of shops here in the city of what is happening...
so poonworks...if lambert give you trouble, you now have leverage
Why do you think a good majority of Canadians go down to shop in the USA or shop at an online bike retailer in the USA??
But i totally agree with raman503, greed is a huge world problem....
This question is mainly targeted towards people who have extra money to blow.
For those who can't afford to buy that nice top of the line bike or bike parts and accessories they will often seek out where to get the best deals. It's not a matter of support its a matter of making due with what they have and can afford.
If I see two equal bikes. One online for $1500 and the other in the bike shop down the road for $2200 I'm going to get the bike online. As long as its a reputable online store. This rule is also applied vice versa.
I'm supporting myself and knowing I have other bills and needs in my life. If it wasn't for the cheaper option maybe I wouldn't have a bike at all.
Would I rather buy online or retail? That's a better question to ask. I'd rather buy local because I could test and see the bike in person. I can also walk out with it the same damn day. No waiting for it to arrive B.S.
I love my local discount, but sometimes online is better for certain products.
Why should "manufacturers put their foot down" for shops selling items below MSRP, a local shop doesn't have to beat internet prices...they just have to be in the same ballpark. How are they devaluing merchandise when a new Specialized Demo 8 costs 10 grand and a 2013 Honda CRF450R cost less than $8,500!!!
Maintenance and repairs for sure goes to LBS, you need the bonding with the guys that you see and ride together!
Anyway, i dont think the addicted riders like me and many here are the ones that make local bike shops survive but the "normal" people, coz the most part of them dont have the hability/patience to fix theiy own bikes, and off course they prefer to go to a local bike shop to see and then buy some bike....
Dot coms.......they have their place if you can't get to a shop but you are supporting some venture capitalist or group of "investors" these people don't give a F%$# about you, your trails, your economy, your neighbors kids bike or much of anything else than maximizing profits...but hey....you can save $17.38 on an XT derailleur!!
When 99.99994% of all you got your first "good" bike as a kid....you know you got it or your parents got it from the local bike shop.....but now....."oh yeah I just got friended on clown book !!"
Log off.....get up.....go to your LBS and look at and touch those new models !!
Retailers get so focused on ensuring key-stone (or more) prices, that when I go into a shop and an product is 30-40% more than I just saw it online, it really makes me stop and think about how much that shop's existence is worth to me? Good, face-to-face, customer service isn't worth 40% extra of my money when I can get amazing email customer service from online retailers such as Chain Reaction Cycles. Not only that, most shops have only so-so customer service, and many of them have people working there who couldn't even tell you what a freewheel is, and blush when you say "nipple" when referring to spokes.
Another knife to twist on that point, is you may love DH biking, but all the riders in your area may be roadies... or parents just looking for kids' bikes and hybrids... are you willing to run a shop that supports those activities too as a shop owner? The customer is goign to drive that boat, no matter how hard the retailer tries to believe otherwise.
If I opened a bike shop what i'd do is get a small postage stamp property, hire a solid wrench and some sort of machine to fit users. That is it, no massive inventory that will bankrupt me and run up my site/business costs. Maybe i'd even partner up with a large online retailer. Funny how that works, almost like today's LBS distributors got too greedy and the online spots have run away with their cheese leaving local shops in the lurch. Anyway you already see this next generation of "virtual LBS" with companies like shoefitr, which provides laser mapped virtual sizing of the inside of shoes. How long till such tech is available to general shop owners for cheap? Come to my shop, pay to get scanned sit on the bike fitting jig. You get the exact info you need to shop online and I get my money. If you break something you are clueless to fix or have a warranty claim come back and pay me. Why do i want to carry all that inventory it is dangerous? One can have parts in 48hrs or so, if you are really worried about having spare parts you need, buy them yourself. Times are a changing!
"run away with their cheese leaving local shops in the lurch"!!! great
Needed a seat post desperatley, 31.6mm
Only to be told that they don't stock them as the manufacturer has made the frame wrong???
Oh a week later tried to charge a friend £15 for 2 Mtrs of gear cable and £18 for some Aztec pads
Cycletec Wakefield you should be ashamed.
A holes.
An oem part is as good as a well packaged one...really who care about pakaging? If component makers are making profit by selling a oem prices to bike makers, then oem price should be the norm for everyone in that global economy.
1. Fix my bike properly the first time - and TEST RIDE it!
2. Don't BS me. (be honest - tell me that certain bike part has a recall or is inferior - don't just keep replacing it with the same crap)
3. Don't tell me my Trek is inferior to Specialized just because you have a Specialized dealership (replace the names with any bike manufacturer)
4. Don't be shy - give me some "preventive maintenance" advice.
5. Don't play 'favorites' on pricing with individual customers. (I'll find out I got 'burned' and never come back)
The LBS has to make a profit to stay in business so I don't mind paying more for parts. Deal with me fairly, be polite and honest and I will return.
I Ioath bike shops who seem to be uniformly run by wankers who know far less about their over priced wares than their customers which combined with a generally poor attitude makes shopping online a no brainer.
All this begs the question: can you put a price on loyalty? If I loved my lbs - what % premium would I be prepared to stomach to keep supporting them? 10% probably. 15 maybe on small stuff. 20% probably not. I can't see bike shops surviving on selling their goods for just 10% more when their overheads are 30-50% higher than e-tailers. So the future is pretty bleak if you run a bike shop unless you offer something exceptional. I know of a bike shop which operates like a club to which you gain automatic membership when you buy a bike from them. You tighten get to go on outside etc and meet new people and learn things. This adds value. But, most lbs owners are too lazy and useless to do such things.
On a final note - most of my riding friends aren't just ambivalent about this issue - they actually dispose lbs's who they feel have screwed us for years and are now getting bent over their bike stands and getting what they deserve. I don't disagree.
There is no other consideration.
For me, 97% of time that means buying online. I could not care for LBS, but obviously a lot of people need'em.
Alex233 I have no recpect for your comment just for the fact you talk as if you were born with a spanner in your hand. Please don't reply
I quite happily support them when I can, but if they can't get me a specific part, I do go online. But ONLY IF THEY CAN'T GET THE PART. Else LBS and businesses are the future.
Parts iv bought online have came and been wrong, or if clothing didn't fit, sending stuff backs a cost and hassle I can't be bothered with. Plus there is no advice or proper 1to1 support online.
p.s. I live on a really small island
But ultimately if the LBS is even within the same ballpark on price for something, even if its aite more, I'll support the local shop.
Im poor, ill buy wherever the price is the best and we know the best prices is online (On the big one). My last bike i bought on a LBS but my current one was online coz the price was veeery good and i wont find Nukeproof´s here in Finland. I do the maintance of my bike, LBS only if i need small parts...
Shops will live on as long as they focus on good service and not completely price gouge people. The shops filled with elitist a*sholes that thumb their nose at certain customers will hopefully die off. Online shopping is forcing LBS's to adapt, some are, some, just like those who despise additional gears and other new innovations, will die in the new market.
I like buying local but why the hell would you pay more for that? The big online sellers offer a good service and if you know what your doing, you don't need shop knowledge. Hell, I probably know more real world tech than most of the guys in my local shops.
The reality is, I can get it cheaper and quicker online..
I try to support my LBS's, there are 3 close to me, but really, their customer service is so poor I am amazed how they stay in business.
However, when I have the gas and the time, I will drive to a brick and mortar store that is two hours away because they know what they are doing, know what I want, usually have it, and work hard at maintaining the friendship that they have developed with me. If only my local shops were more like that!
With those advantages in mind I—as a consumer—am willing to pay a premium buying locally. The question to me is just how much a premium am I willing to pay? A 10%, it is an easy decision. $100 dollar item on CRC vs. $110 on the same item at a shop, I go to the shop with pride. Same item sold at the shop for $120—I would still buy at the shop. $150 for the same item at the shop? I would buy online. Having pondered this question for the past couple years, I believe I am willing to pay a 25% premium to a local shop and not lose any sleep about my purchase. Anything past 25%, I will probably buy it online.
Now, with 25% in mind looking at the local shops here in Canada, it becomes exceedingly difficult to justify purchasing anything locally. Race Face Atlas crankset at a local shop: $289.99CND. Race Face Atlas crankset from CRC: $143.75CND, and CRC will ship it for free. It is not like I am choosing between a Chang-Shin blender at Wal Mart vs. a Cuisinart blender sold at The Bay. The cranksets are the same dang item. I am sorry, but I am not willing to pay double.
Maybe it is the Canadian cycling wholesalers that are to blame. Maybe the local shops are being forced to buying that crankset at $225, and need to factor in rent, heat, wages and a little profit so they have to sell it for $290. Whatever the reasons are, I just cannot justify that much of a price spread for that exact item.
If you ACTUALLY donate to IMBA or the local group then you can actually be assured the money is gonna go into all those good things you mentioned. No need to feel so guilty.
Unfortunately for these distributors their business is such that it can easily be supplanted, in the old days by mail order, but waaay more so with technology like the internet and people sharing experience on forums. The Internet has a way of ruthlessly destroying any middleman's markup business. Provided the product fits into certain category like cranks or books. More products will fit into that category in the future. Just look at what happened to the recording industry or the book store. Prices plummeted for music and books. The same has/is gonna keep happening on a larger scale for bicycles or many other items that had to be sold in person back in the "good" ol' days.
I agree 100% - things have to change regarding distributorship. Amazon.ca started in someones garage and look at them now - I am hoping to achieve a part of that success AND get those bicycle parts prices DOWN IN CANADA!! There is absolutely NO reason why prices are that much higher than in the USA or the UK- ABSOLUTELY NONE .
S U P P O R T Y O U R L B S !
Parts and accessories, it’s the best customer service that wins my business whether that be online or LBS.
Dutch retail stores are a dire experience at best. They are disinterested unless you want to buy $$$$ and everything is 3 times the price than what you can get online and they have rubbish brands ( yahoo for the 2 metre long wall of BBB shiite....) and the dutch are obsessed with lycra (something wrong in their upbringing) and pro jeserys (dispite fat guts hanging out) not my style thanks.......
I worked and managed outdoor stores in New Zealand for over 8 years so i feel for retail but in the end i want the best bang for my buck....and something to choose from........
CRC all the way for clothing, and bike-components.de for ......duh bike components...
A L.B.S. can not compeat with on line prices. A cyber store does not have to hire mechanics or pay rent for a retail store. What happens when you dont get exacly what you ordered? Lots of down time and more cash spent on shipping!
M.E.C. is a huge company. They are 100% Canadian and give back to the sport of mountainbiking. M.E.C. has awsome deals on parts. Why are they so big? Maybe L.B.S. should copy M.E.C.,s formula. If some one had a retail chain of bike stores then more buying power.
Come on people "Think Localy act Globaly" Support your local buisness when you can!
signed,
Customer of both bike shops and online retailers
Many LBS are hit and miss. I once (just before X mas) went to a reputable store and asked if they could tighten a suspension bolt (I thought side to side play was due to the bolt being lose, but later I found out bearings were more than dead), the guy said "go get some beer and I will do it for you". When I came home I realized that there was no way he could have tightened the bolt because from the front derailleur side you actually have to unscrew it (Specialized) and then unscrew a bracket that serves as the derailleur mount and goes across the bolt itself. Were there signs of any work there? Nope. Just spanner marks on the easily accesible side of the bike (non drive side). I am sure they enjoyed the beer and had a good laugh about a dumb-a** customer. You lower your guard a bit and trust people and you get punished. Will I ever buy a bike from this brand? Never! A six pack vs opportunity to sell an expensive bike- your loss! And that's too bad because it is a very good local brand I thought!
On the other hand, in a different store in Kitsilano, the mechanic spent half a day working on my bike, fixing problems and educating me how and what should be done to eliminate side-to side play.
Conclusion? LBS should sell education, emergency repairs and good customer service, parts are secondary.Whatever I can I will try to do it myself and if needed will seek that one or two people I trust, not easy to find someone you can trust! Voila!
I wish I could shop locally more often, but prices are often sooo far off.
I've also bought my last three bikes from Pinkbike buy/sell after buying my first one from the shop.
I built up a 6"+ plus AM bike over 3 years ago before it became popular, in SA that kind of bike is still far from popular and very niche. this country is filled with unskilled 'dirt roadies' on 29ers.
the distributors of this country just don't support that as it's considered very niche, for example i'm shopping for new tyres and i want the Conti mountain king 2 in 2.4 and the baron in 2.3, neither tyre is being imported by the Continental distributor here in SA, so i have to go online, same thing when i wanted to replace my chain rings to run 2 up front with a bash, those kind of products just aren't being imported here.
SUPPORT YOUR LBS!!!
Examples:
*A friend of me bought a pair of Hope Tech M4.
The LBS owner said many times they came with the steelflex, so my friend payed extra for it.
When they arrived they did not have steelflex, my friend did not get the extra cash back...
*I have a Specialized SXT with a Fox RC4. One day the shock blew up (after 6months), so I took it to my LBS where I bought the frame.
First of all i needed to pay hem a fee 150 USD, he said Fox always asks this amount. ( WHAT THE f*ck IS WARRANTY THEN ?)
So I payed because I would go to France in 3 weeks on a bike holiday.
2 Weeks later he called me that my shock was back, so I went to my LBS.
He gave me back "my shock", fox returned me a dhx 3.0 coil, instead of a rc4.
The LBS guy kept saying that I did not gave him a RC4....
From now on:
only online and I'll do everything myself on my bike.
Until Lbs regroups and start putting pressure on the distributer to brings the prices down, they will not have a chance to compete.
I get excellent service with crc when i have a problem, same for Jenson and a few others... I get also excellent service from my lbs....but they rarely have what i need in stock, i usually know more about whats available than they do...buy the head mechanic there is exellent .
I get my parts from crc generally within a week. ... My lbs, it depends if they need to order that week... And price will be higher.
I have come down to an honnest relationship with my lbs.: i do most of my mechanic, sometime i dont have time or i'm missing a tool for something so i get my lbs to do it for me..I also have them build my wheels, whith the parts they know i bought online ....i'm honnest about it with them and they respect me for it.
I also buy small stuf from my lbs(cables, tubes, lube, etc.)
Answer - people are cheap. If something costs online 7 and 14 in the shop, guess where I will buy?
Same will happen soon with clothes and everything else. Just a matter of time. Future is online. Only antiques and unique products (not mass produced) could survive this but recently even antique furniture can be purchased online.
Not all of us live in a market that can truly support a number of great local bike shops. The few that pop up are from enthusiasts that love cycling, but may not have the best idea on how to run a business. This probably worked great when there was little other option, but it's a global market now, and the retailer has to adapt. Maybe we're at a tipping point, at least in these secondary markets, where the brick and mortar stores cannot support themselves with the high margins required for such a low inventory turn. I don't have the answer, just that observation.
As a modern consumer, I want to have my cake and eat it too. We will all really miss the brick and mortar stores dearly when they are gone, but if they go, don't just blame the on-line and big-box guys, but our own shopping habits as well. As consumers of anything, we will eventually become "victims of our own devise."
Now... One problem the Internet also brings... With everyone buying from abroad. (Not just bikes) everything... The UK is massively losing money. How any billions of pounds ,ust be lost to our country because we buy elsewhere? In my opinion. Although the Internet has its "convenient" opportunity for the more becoming lazy Brit. It's also going to cause a huge disaster over time. Going back to my work. A builder with 30 years experience who will have way more knowledge and skills than me of 7 years. He loses out purely because of google, yell.com, gumtree, Facebook, linked in, twitter and much more... And this is whats happening to bike shops. Quality or quantity. Convenience or customer service? Sorry for the long post.
Now... One problem the Internet also brings... With everyone buying from abroad. (Not just bikes) everything... The UK is massively losing money. How any billions of pounds ,ust be lost to our country because we buy elsewhere? In my opinion. Although the Internet has its "convenient" opportunity for the more becoming lazy Brit. It's also going to cause a huge disaster over time. Going back to my work. A builder with 30 years experience who will have way more knowledge and skills than me of 7 years. He loses out purely because of google, yell.com, gumtree, Facebook, linked in, twitter and much more... And this is whats happening to bike shops. Quality or quantity. Convenience or customer service? Sorry for the long post.
Hopefully we'll still be around in years to come if we do things right but if any shop thinks it can carry on as before they are going one way... down the tubes.
interesting to read the comments above though, good topic. oh yeah... thanks to all our customers and www.slam69.co.uk is our shop. I thinks its cool for me to mention the shop seeing as the CRC machine has had a few mentions lol.
I don't blame people for shopping online, but don't complain when something breaks and you can't get it replaced. Also, don't be surprised if you get a glare when you buy something online and bring it to a shop to have them put it on... chances are if you get that same derailleur at your shop, it'll be put on and adjusted not only initially, but also later on for free. Come in with your fresh Pricepoint RD, and you're going to pay for every adjustment. At least that's the way I handled it. Bike shops tend to "take care of their own", so if you can afford it, join the LBS fold and buy from them.
Anybody who does not mix the two is stupid. The local bike shop is your support. They are your lifeline and there when shit goes wrong (i.e. at an event and you leave something home, etc) To completely discount them is stupid.
On the other hand, to completely go to a LBS for loyalty is somewhat a double edged sword. Show your support, but don't be a bad consumer. If the bike shop is within a couple dollars, go with the bike shop. The hassle of paying for shipping and waiting to save a couple dollars is better spent supporting your shop. However, if your LBS is like double or a hefty amount above online pricing for that specific item, yes, go online. But be smart about things, is it really worth the 2 hours spent searching for the best price just to squeeze out $5 in savings? No. Don't be that guy. That guy is the reason businesses are shutting down. That guy is the reason it seems like you have to drive 20 miles to buy anything or hold it in your hand. Be a smart consumer, just don't be a f*cking jew.
Order online out of state with free shipping. If LBS would match the online price , then I would buy from them.
Why you ask? Because the son (manager) who was one of the three family partners, lost focus on what was important to their
customers as he wasn't really interested in the bike business any longer. It took a couple of years but gradually the customer loyalty
factor diminished and the result was inevitable...
As for people 'showrooming' most of my customers are loyal & listen to my advise but there are still a few that ask as many questions as possible & then still go away & buy online. I have even made the mistake of giving too much help with product information such as letting a customer know that the fork they are looking at online won't fit their bike for whatever reason, tapered, 20mm, QR or whatever, after thanking me for the advice & saving them some money & wasted time they have used my information & still bought online. They then possibly feel embarrassed to come back to me for any other work doing as I will obviously notice the new fork etc. I know this as a fact as one of his friends expressed his surprise as to what he had done. We're not going to stop it but it does make you think about holding back from giving too much away.
As I run my own bike service & repair business my objective is to give the best quality of service, advise & products so that the customer returns & they also tell their mates. If asked to price match I will always do so wherever I can but it's not always possible but I will still fit parts parts bought from elsewhere.
The trend that I see is, unfortunately, that there are high end shops going with the Apple Store model. High end shit with high end customer service. Unfortunately, most of us can't afford to shop there. The rest of the small "mom and pop" bike shops may have a good mechanic, and can get you going when you bust a spoke. But, will never be able to compete with Universal Cycles' discount codes or stock availability (or their lack of tax). UC also has great wheel builders... which unfortunately, I know none locally that are reasonably priced or not backlogged with a month long waiting list.
All that being said, I support the local shops (that are good) whenever I can. When I travel, I love stopping into the LBS and seeing how it's setup, talking to the people, and getting a taste for the culture in that area. I'll even try to find an excuse to buy something if I don't necessarily need it, just to support the shop / community (Yuba expeditions! Ashland shuttle service). I think the only way for us as a community to make the local shops better is by making our presence and opinions known.
The shop I use doesnt do much for the community, puts it's money into sponsoring riders instead, but... they have kick ass mechanics and if they order something for you it's there within a week. They also give me a special rate because I'm a good customer. I always go there first and give them a chance.
Don't get me wrong, I understand the lure of the internet and have bought over the internet many times for items I can't find elsewhere. However as an employee in a LBS, the most insulting, rude (and unfortunately increasingly common) problem we are experiencing is customers who seek our free knowledge, want to find out what size bike or helmet they need, take up sometimes hours of our time with sizing and set-up and then casually slip in that they will be buying it on line, or worse, search for the product on line in front of you then demand a discount "because CRC/Wiggle are selling it for this". Discount is earned via loyalty, and will always be given to repeat customers, it is not given because "on-line says this". Of course I, like many if not most sales assistants in the trade do not work on commission, I am salaried, so realistically there is nothing but the satisfaction of someone buying the right bike and being thrilled to bits with it as a reward for me, I want to hear stories of the "first time I took it to Wales", that's enough to keep me doing it, I doubt most/any on-line retailers give a toss, whereas friendships are forged in a LBS, customers become riding buddies...
The on-line market is slowly stripping the UK market of local shops, and soon there will be very few places to pop into for a chat, a coffee and just chat bikes and riding stories...
Don't get me wrong, I understand the lure of the internet and have bought over the internet many times for items I can't find elsewhere. However as an employee in a LBS, the most insulting, rude (and unfortunately increasingly common) problem we are experiencing is customers who seek our free knowledge, want to find out what size bike or helmet they need, take up sometimes hours of our time with sizing and set-up and then casually slip in that they will be buying it on line, or worse, search for the product on line in front of you then demand a discount "because CRC/Wiggle are selling it for this". Discount is earned via loyalty, and will always be given to repeat customers, it is not given because "on-line says this". Of course I, like many if not most sales assistants in the trade do not work on commission, I am salaried, so realistically there is nothing but the satisfaction of someone buying the right bike and being thrilled to bits with it as a reward for me, I want to hear stories of the "first time I took it to Wales", that's enough to keep me doing it, I doubt most/any on-line retailers give a toss, whereas friendships are forged in a LBS, customers become riding buddies...
But i bought my bars (raceface atlas) off crc cause no where in my city sells them.
so i try to support my local bike shop, but sometimes i cant.
zengarage.com.au/2012/11/an-open-letter-to-chain-reaction-cycles
Sorry if this has already been linked
Having said all this, Bow Cycle appears to do amazing business. I am always amazed driving by there in the spring time at the sheer volume of new bikes being walked out the door. People that don't know exactly what they want or how to service their equipment will always depend on the LBS. There is room for both.
Great staff too who are friendly. I havent used their services for repairs yet though, so I dont know how knowledgeable they are in regards to repairs/maintenance
I use a local guy - at Bent Knee bike repair - Richard is very knowledgeable and knows what he is doing - I trust him 100% to work on my bikes and my customers bikes.
Some of us are old enough to remember camera shops. Remember how fun those were? Ever feel sad that they're basically gone now? If we're not careful, the bike industry could go the same way. Sure, there are tons of websites out there offering super discounted camera gear... but more than half of them will steal the charger out of the box of a new camera and charge you another $100 bucks to get it back. The few online camera shops with a decent reputation have such a stranglehold on customer service and good practices that you end up paying MSRP or more just to not get ripped off. Guess that desire for low priced lenses came back and bit us in the ass on that one, right?
Want to learn more about what it means to own/run a shop? Read here: nbda.com/articles/want-to-start-a-bike-shop-pg70.htm
Is that the way forward for cycle stores - We certainly think so as we are looking to offer the best of both worlds.
What would everyone like to see from there local bike shop? And what would everyone like to see from Online stores?
That said, what I want from the local shop is to usually be able to find what I need, when I need it, employees who know their ass from their elbow, and to be treated like a customer. From the on-line folks, I would expect that you actually have what you offer me in your hands, can turn around transactions quickly, including reasonable shipping and handeling options that can be paid in real time at time of purchase. (I just had to wait a day for a shipping quote on some spare parts for my ski poles for an on-line purchase, that no local shop was willing to sell, or even "special order" for me, or I wouldn't have bought it on-line... WTF)
hahahahaa I'd mostly attribute it to buying thousands of fans from Indonesia, India & South America - not sure why, maybe ot make themselves look big - true though, check their insights! That & using loads of photos off PinkBike without credit or maybe ever throwing a few $$ to the photographers every once in a while!
Internet all the way.
Add up the total costs including shipping, estimate tax/duty and then decide if it's worth it.
It's the bike parts and clothing and accessories that they markup very high and gouge us....
Also purchased a camelbak for $60 that sells everywhere for $159.99 also picked up a fox helmet for $25 that sells for $60
So I guess u did not find the great deals but trust me they r there if u look and I will b there march 1st saving big money.
Buy local, you sellouts.
And by the way - do I want a beer when I go to my LBS? Not really. I'd just rather save $100 off the saint rear derailleur I need and get 20 beers at the pub with my friends thanks all the same.
And I don't know if you do or not, but have you noticed that the majority of people on here proclaiming that we must all buy from out fantastic LBS seem to work at their LBS. It's almost as if they get all their bike gear at trade prices and have never actually had to pay full price in a shop before?? I wonder if they'd be so desperate to give away $1000's a year and buy nothing online if that wasn't the case... ?