Reality Redesigned: The GAUNTLET Ep1: HM-12

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nouser (Apr 30, 2012 at 2:48)

but i like being able to control my brakes separately..?!

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kzuma (Apr 30, 2012 at 13:47)

Seriously. Other than what uttanutta12 said about being useful for riders with disabilities, I can't see anyone wanting to be forced to use both brakes at the same time.

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ben24 (Apr 30, 2012 at 16:52)

mabye this brake splitter could be an intermetiate peice on a brake line, and really only for the handycap. Designing for the handycap is still a really good thing.

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gtang31 (Apr 30, 2012 at 20:23)

I forsee lots of endos for heavy brake hitters

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tobiebiker (Apr 30, 2012 at 20:33)

i could see this being put on a motorcycle or something

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SHARK555 (May 1, 2012 at 4:06)

Gwin for sure, cause he only uses brakes after the finish

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jordxgreen (May 1, 2012 at 13:08)

WHAT ABOUT SKIDS?!

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KennyKillsIt (May 2, 2012 at 8:33)

Skids, ofc you can skid.....with the front wheel

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evilamish (May 3, 2012 at 12:25)

the funny thing is that they already made this for road bikes

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uttanutta12 (Apr 30, 2012 at 3:00)

I've seen this idea before, although this design of it is very good, would be helpful for people with disabilities that can only use one arm properly, as atm similar systems are very expensive

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beneathmiskin1 (Apr 30, 2012 at 5:43)

Thank you, it seems that nobody else is picking up on that fact. They're all to concerned with their own braking systems and cant see that some people can't control both brakes separately, for whatever reason.

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lightningskull (Apr 30, 2012 at 6:08)

it looks much easier then the awkward two lever setups I've seen on some of the one armed bandits on the trails

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miff (Apr 30, 2012 at 9:15)

@beanthmiskin

I know what you're saying bud but at the end of the day, the dollar drives the economy and in this case the companies R&D priorities. I mean no disrespect to my mountain bike brethren who may not have full body functionality but your demographic is realistically a tiny one with huge costs in an industry already plagued by the same trait.

I'm all for the development of these things for those less fortunate than the rest of us but it's a little unfair to criticise businesses for merely catering to their customer base.

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RaleighVoid (Apr 30, 2012 at 9:23)

oorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr www.pinkbike.com/photo/1793712

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betsie (Apr 30, 2012 at 10:56)

Or just run 1 lever into 2 brakes if you have a prosthetic or disability and want to ride still.
Larger brake for the rear, smaller for the front.
Code for the rear (203mm rotor), ultimate for the front (140mm rotor). Run the rear with a larger hose and better pads if needs must.
You can't put the rear on by itself but should work.

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RaleighVoid (Apr 30, 2012 at 11:34)

but the flow volume per stroke/(brake lever pull) would be halved! you'd need a motocross lever or something

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uttanutta12 (Apr 30, 2012 at 11:46)

Tom Wheelers system for one handed use seems good, standard front brake lever...Moto GP thumb operated rear brake then shifters all on one side, but as i said originally a system like that is very expensive, i know of someone who's in a similar situation and just resorts to using a single rear hydro disc because he can't afford the versions of this that already exist.

So if the designer here can manufacture these at a reasonable price, that price would be what seperates this from the rest, and makes it stand out

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Andy-M (Apr 30, 2012 at 1:11)

Its a cool idea but to have a single two-stage master cylinder you cant really use a single fluid setup without some major re-designs. It would really have to have two seperate master cylinders which engage at different points depending on lever stroke

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miff (Apr 30, 2012 at 9:15)

@beanthmiskin

I know what you're saying bud but at the end of the day, the dollar drives the economy and in this case the companies R&D priorities. I mean no disrespect to my mountain bike brethren who may not have full body functionality but your demographic is realistically a tiny one with huge costs in an industry already plagued by the same trait.

I'm all for the development of these things for those less fortunate than the rest of us but it's a little unfair to criticise businesses for merely catering to their customer base.

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Borgschulze (Apr 30, 2012 at 12:52)

All you really need is a normal lever.. with a splitter.. but give it a slightly larger master cylinder piston to reduce the spongy feeling, and open up the distance between the pads to normal. But you have to remember... it's going to require more force at the lever to stop with the same force as a normal brake. In all honesty, 2 levers on the same side is better for riders that only have the ability to brake with one hand.. you need to be able to modulate both brakes independently.

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James-Carey (Apr 30, 2012 at 7:43)

Just an idea here... But how about a 2 prisons, staggered on one lever, rather than have one piston, connect up 2 pistons, one to the front hose, and one the the rear hose, both of these could be fine tuned to engage at the riders desired point. For example the rear brake could be set up on the point of lock up just as the front one starts to come on? an easy screw adjust system means it would be fast to fine tune for the weather conditions too.

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aleksulmer (Apr 30, 2012 at 8:25)

I'm definitely up for trying it out if it was ever to come out into the market, seems like an interesting concept, especially the idea that you can feather the brake for light braking until you need extra brake power, then just jam the lever for quick stops.... but I agree with what everyone else says about the pressure equalization problem. Seems like it would function more efficiently and overall better with 2 master cylinders controlled in such a way as to avoid that "double-click" or "jumpiness" as stated above and get the brake response as smooth as possible when the front brake comes into play.

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taletotell (Apr 30, 2012 at 5:50)

I don't see why it would be expensive to machine. I could make the outer shell with two drill bits, a hand drill, and a shop clamp. Getting the spring rate right shouldn't be hard with some math and testing. Why is this hard? The real issue is the equalization of preassure that they mentioned.

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lightningskull (Apr 30, 2012 at 6:09)

race cars have an adjustable proportion valve for the brakes, i'm sure something like that can be worked into this design.

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atrokz (Apr 30, 2012 at 10:44)

It's actualy impossible to machine in the current configuration, so maybe that's what she was getting at. Your drill bits don't drill curves or angles, and even my 4 axis sodick sink EDM won't make a hole like that.... Only way to obtain the 2nd port hole with the existing curves is via casting it. Design would need some modifications in order to make it a reality, and include straight holes vs curved ones, an investment casting, or a 2 pcs design. The judges are correct in saying the cost is high, and it's manufacturability is questionable. Supprised there are no actual machinists or mechanical engineers as judges on this show.

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nouser (Apr 30, 2012 at 12:50)

Good thoughts atrokz. Also, the testing for this part would be pretty high because it's a brake part in general, and also because it takes over ALL the braking, leaving the rider with no alternate option.

The guys from Straitline Components are machinists though, they have lots of experience in the industry. And Josh Coaplen from Cane Creek ( a judge for the suspension category ) is an engineer, couldn't tell you what area he specialize in but pretty sure he is an engineer.

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atrokz (Apr 30, 2012 at 14:08)

Good to know. They weren't introduced as such, so I guess coming from a certified Tool and Die maker, I always wonder where people got their start. I'd imagine they have their shit covered.

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taletotell (Apr 30, 2012 at 15:26)

The curves in the design are not actually central to the design. That is like saying "Due to the shape of the tires in the design, the engine in this car could never be developed." I could make one by hand in a machine shop for less than $50. I know there are other costs involved in mass production, but I could not make a brake lever for that cheap. What the designer needs to do is make a prototype, slap it on a bike and have a one-handed dude ride it into the straitline factory.
I am not saying this is a great idea. I don't think it is that interesting except on a commuter bike for people who lost their hand in a freak toaster incident. I just don't buy their knit picking excuses for why they can't make it.

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sortafast (Apr 30, 2012 at 17:32)

something like that would be easy to do. You either do 2 halves and sandwich them, or you do it up like a manifold where you drill 2 holes for the offshoot. One at an angle, and one to the exit point. Then plug one with a set screw or something and you'd be in business. Or you just run the drill in at the angle you want with a quick spot face with an endmill so the drill doesn't wander. Not hard kids.

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atrokz (May 1, 2012 at 7:13)

So, pretty much *exactly* what I said about redesigning it.....

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jamsavage (Apr 30, 2012 at 5:42)

I think the design is meant for people who do not have the capability to use both hands to brake any more but still want to ride. I think it's a great idea, to keep riders riding! Why if your not able to use both brakes should you stop riding. I've seen other riders with a thumb operated brake and a brake lever this would eliminate the complications.

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k-rider92 (Apr 30, 2012 at 19:43)

i think its a good idea base on the idea off a master cylinder as seen on a vehicle. now i would say design it so it runs off of the front brake ( 60 to 80 percent of are braking should be done on the front depending on your situation) needles to say i could see a small market maybe for

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whijet (May 1, 2012 at 7:59)

looking at this from an engineer's perspective, being able to change the strength of the spring would change the bias of the brakes, so obviously the harder the spring the more bias towards one and the softer the spring the more even the bias

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Jock-Muttley (May 2, 2012 at 7:26)

Now and ADJUSTABLE bias valve would be something.... very very common in Stage Rallying where you can alter the front / rear bias on the move depending on road surface conditions, driving style, etc. This was acheived by utilising a twin master cylinder set up (aka a bias pedal box) and altering the amount the piston moved by twisting a knob to move a worm drive rod. In reality as a stage rally driver the only times I altered the bias was when going from tarmac to gravel and the settings just got left well alone.

On gravel I liked a lot more tail happy set up but then i tended to left foot brake to get the car sideways into the corner to scrub speed off, wheras on tarmac I prefered almost all the effort to be on the front doing almost all of my braking on the straight to bleed the speed off before the corner and keeping it nice and smooth.

Ideally for me a simple lever would have been best to flick between the two settings on a mixed surface stage but these were prohibitively expensive. I still ended up running a third master cylinder with a stonking great vertical lever next to the gear lever for the rear brakes as well for really getting the @rse swinging round on a tight hairpin.

Can't see the point on a bike bar for a disabled rider but nice to see some thought going into it, I prefer to control my brakes independantly.

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Xj1998 (Apr 30, 2012 at 9:12)

Really cool idea with the brake valve thingymajig. I bet cars could use something like, maybe someone will invent one. They could give it a really slick name like a proportioning valve or something idk. Maybe one day... FF.

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jwbradley141 (Apr 30, 2012 at 9:19)

yeeeeeeee FF!

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k-rider92 (Apr 30, 2012 at 19:45)

your and idiot its called a master cylinder on a car that's how cares regulate there braking power threw a system steal tubes of different size to distribute the pressure in a regulated manner to give the front more power than the back

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Xj1998 (Apr 30, 2012 at 20:34)

You're a f*ckhead. Protioning valves control balance between front and rear brakes. Educate yourself you canuck f*ck.

auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-parts/brakes/brake-types/master-brake2.htm

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gomoe24ridesaunicycle (Apr 30, 2012 at 12:03)

i feel i have would have more control over my bike with 2 independent brakes plus i enjoy getting my rear end loose every once and a while. now with that said Nascars have ajustable nobs inside the car controling how much brake is in the front and rear so you eventualy you would probably be able how much is in the front and rear if they added that to the system. a quick question thought wouldint the front brake, brake first because the cable is shorter?

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iamamodel (Apr 30, 2012 at 15:09)

What's with that definition of 'The guantlet". That sounds more like "Running the gauntlet" which was a form of punishment, these days most akin to turning up to school on your birthday and receiving the requisite number of punches from all your friends.

A gauntlet is an armoured glove extending up the forearm. Has been for the best part of a thousand years.

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nouser (May 4, 2012 at 10:53)

Hey iamamodel, Check out the intro video! It explains The GAUNTLET. There are a few definitions for the word. We aren't birthday beating the designers! They did an awesome job.

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cretin82 (Apr 30, 2012 at 15:26)

interesting idea, BUT for DH riders such as my self sometimes you find that you need more force on the front brake because you get more stoping power than way. for me personally i would never run this if it became a thing im a 2 lever guy and always will be

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7chasecool (Apr 30, 2012 at 15:34)

it look good for a lazy guy that want to push only one brake and stop peacefully but i like to brake separately and go over the street drifting and making tricks using both brakes in the moment i like,again this is a good idea for a guys that only goes normally without tempting the luck in every corner thats how motor bikes still building front and back brakes or the cars develop abs for a better modulation in the breaking moment

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bebemonk4ever (Apr 30, 2012 at 17:37)

i dont think that would be good for market... it would be good like for beginers... its like both wheels will brake at the same time with the same power... but the lever had to be with bigger piston because of the oil volume is for both brakes so double calipers double volume... without that spring it would be good like for quad bikes like paraplegic ... because those quads have 2 brakes one on top of the other in the same side... somebody should show a quad frame for concept...

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sortafast (Apr 30, 2012 at 17:44)

seriously? $13k to prototype that thing? Really? You can buy a small used manual mill, a bunch of tooling and materials for well under $3k (under $1500 if you get a bench top) to get probably 5-20 different working prototypes of different designs. Yeah the design needs some work, but really? $13k? And WTF is $3k for business consulting? Its not that difficult yo. Shoot I may just go out into the garage, fire up the mill and make one of these just to prove it can be done and done cheap. You don't need a $50,000 mill and cheap coffee to pull something like this off.

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inzsi (Apr 30, 2012 at 2:24)

Sorry guys, but it's not a new idea... This system released by Grimeca, around 2001, or 02 ( i dont remember exactly) for the system 4 disc brakes.

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vwcabrio82 (Apr 30, 2012 at 17:50)

this is already in production

www.trialtech.co.uk/product.php?product_id=89
[P=http://http://http://www.tartybikes.co.uk/images/custom/brakes/large_ttsplitter.jpg size=m align=c][/P]

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collinblackmore (Apr 30, 2012 at 18:53)

thats for rim brakes, sending the fluid to both sides of the rim, not both brakes

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lcstay10 (Apr 30, 2012 at 4:48)

call me old fashioned, but i for one like having control over the braking power for each wheel.

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conv3rt (Apr 30, 2012 at 13:27)

no doubt. There are some long slab rides around here that require zero front braking. In fact, front braking would have dire consequences.

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arkon11 (Apr 30, 2012 at 5:24)

Although this is a neat concept, I feel like you would loose alot of control over your bike using a product like this. When riding I don't even "think" about breaking... my body and bike just work together.

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tdryan242 (Apr 30, 2012 at 15:12)

only usefull for handicap people which means there is almost no market for it so cool idea but not an effective choice for two handed riders. an ABS system would be the next big leap in bicycle braking technology imo

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neimbc (Apr 30, 2012 at 5:21)

Maybe not for mountain bikers , but I think a better application for recreational road riders, bike path folks, commuters.

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miff (Apr 30, 2012 at 9:25)

How so?

I can't see a conventional application where it would be an advantage. A motor car can afford the luxury because it has the size/strength and most importantly power to accommodate a computer which can effectively control the braking distribution, not to mention, that specific application is gifted in the sense it doesn't need finite wheel control like a bike (pedal or motor powered).

Without a computer to control and monitor everything it would be totally ineffective. That kind of technology on its own is expensive and cumbersome, let alone trying to apply it to a casual user product.

Controlling the brakes independently is integral to bike handling and safety. I would almost go as far to say that until you can engineer electronically controlled ABS onto a bike, individual control will reign superior by a long shot.

nb: this is specifically aimed at the able-bodied crowd. It's another kettle of fish otherwise.

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themountain (Apr 30, 2012 at 7:00)

Pointless gimmick in my eyes...anyway its already possible to do with mechanical disks...no real benefit for the average biker.

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freeridingboy (Apr 30, 2012 at 7:24)

it exists already on a head dh bike prototype www.bicycles.net.au/forums/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=23592&start=25 only bouth disks ore in the front

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jwbradley141 (Apr 30, 2012 at 8:52)

The only thing more ridiculous than this contest is that dude's hair. If i had designed a new hair product mount that universally fit on to any rig so ppl can style their hair anytime/anywhere at a moment's notice; then i probably would have won. A host less D-bag and more involved/knowledgeable with the sport would make this less annoying.

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nouser (Apr 30, 2012 at 13:17)

Hey Jeremy from Edge Factor here.... Let me know when you have that hair design finished. I would love to buy it.... Never made any claims of being an expert in the biking field... I simply facilitated getting the experts involved and let them do what they do best.

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corriebikes (Apr 30, 2012 at 6:17)

The video at the bottom was put together amazingly! My fav edited video of all time 4 sure!

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zeronine3 (Apr 30, 2012 at 6:55)

Not again.

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endurocat (Apr 30, 2012 at 12:19)

Some riders have preference on either front or back brake to take most of the main stoping force

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forestman (Apr 30, 2012 at 15:08)

How is it hard to machine, just make it into a two piece that screws together!

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crossfader18 (Apr 30, 2012 at 10:14)

I lovely CNC machines

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jimenezdh (Apr 30, 2012 at 8:55)

Whats the name of the song?