The original version of this op-ed was first written and posted ten years ago, a time when long-travel bikes were much less evolved and much more unwieldy than they are today. Steeper seat angles, longer reach numbers, shorter offsets, and the general march of progress have, thankfully, seen modern enduro bikes become incredibly competent and well-rounded. Nowadays, a 160mm-travel bike can also be an impossibly good climber, there's no argument below about that, but it doesn't change the fact that pushing a short-travel bike to its limits - or your own - can be more rewarding than depending on suspension to save your ass after yet another terrible line choice.
Of course, it doesn't matter what type of bike any of us are riding, only that we're having fun. But let's not let that keep us from arguing about things for this Throwback Thursday, okay? -
Mike Levy
Talent vs. TravelI believe that if you don't know how to ride a short-travel bike (or hardtail) with skill, you might not be able to ride a long-travel bike with skill either. In this day and age where it isn't uncommon to see a new rider whose first rig is an 8'' travel downhill bike, this can be a completely foreign way of thinking. People have become accustomed to charging into challenging terrain with abandon, expecting to find traction and triumph that often happens solely because of these immensely capable bikes, not because of the rider's competence. This same capability allows people to ride trails or features that might otherwise be above their skill set, which, depending on how you feel about the subject, could be either a good or bad thing.
You're Not A ProWith suspension that can make short work of some of the hairiest terrain imaginable, super tacky tires that riders happily accept will only last two, maybe three race weekends, and slack geometry that rewards ultra-aggressive, pro-level riding, a full-fledged modern downhill bike is an amazing piece of machinery. The trouble is, the vast majority of us are not pros. Not by any stretch of the imagination. Yeah, you may think that you're quick on a bike, and you very well might be, but the gigantic skill gap between most of us (myself included) and a top-level racer who holds a pro license is even bigger than you think. Practicing your 'Sam Hill' around corners with your buddies might be fun as all hell, but there is something else you can do that will make a much bigger difference: a riding clinic or coach will add to your arsenal in a way that an extra 3'' of suspension travel could never do. Tracking down some instructional help, from the basics of riding all the way up to refreshers for more advanced techniques, may unlock potential that you never knew you had.
Sorry, Your Trails Aren't That BurlyThere is absolutely nothing wrong with that - almost any trail can be a fun trail - except that it leaves me wondering why in the world you'd be on a bike that is so singleminded in its approach that it actually presents a disadvantage when talking about both speed and fun. Sure, there are riding zones filled with nothing but Champéry-esque terrain, littered with lines that force riders to spend more time over their back wheel than Bobby Root in an early New World Disorder movie, but the truth is that these tracks are outnumbered a hundred to one by much tamer trails. Get a contemporary long-travel bike on one of these 'average' trails, under an average rider, and it transforms from an all-conquering beast to being hindered by the very features that help so much on gnarly terrain, with it now wandering around like the town drunk trying to keep himself from falling off the sidewalk. That 64° head angle you think you need puts the front wheel too far out in front, with the result being a loss in traction because it isn't weighted enough to function how its designer intended. The front-end of the bike goes from sticking like glue at high speeds to pushing and understeering through corners at the now inadequate pace, forcing the rider to adopt an overly aggressive method on the bike in order to help it around corners. A big bike's extra travel obviously allows it to carry more speed through rough sections, no argument here, but it doesn't take a lot of skill to straight line the chunder. The same rider on a bike with a head angle that's steeper by a few degrees doesn't look as if he has to wring its neck to get around the same turns.
Because a big bike isn't carrying speed as well as a solidly built, shorter-travel bike would, the rider is forced to work hard to find that extra momentum, throwing down as many pedal strokes as possible, while those on smaller bikes coast and look for backsides to pump. Extra pedal strokes do more than just sap a rider's strength, though, with the chance of a disastrous pedal strike increased thanks to a modern long-travel bike's relatively low bottom bracket height combined with its 3'' of sag. In other words, a rider on a big bike has to work harder to find speed, but the harder that he or she works, the more likely they are to get bitch slapped by the ground after clipping a pedal.
And jumping? Sure, you can get away with casing a gap so hard that you render the rear wheel of your bike unusable, only to roll away laughing about it, but did you ever think that maybe you cased the jump because you have too much suspension? We've all been there... Knowing we should have listened to the voices telling us to hit the brakes rather than trying to sprint a bike that feels as if it has been wholly designed to sap nearly all of the paltry horsepower that our legs put out. Then again, you might have made it over the chasm if you didn't have to pull up through the bike's doughy negative travel. Again, I'd wager that most of these jumps are not large enough to require the full-on enduro bike that forced the rider to either walk or shuttle up the hill to access them in the first place.
Why Short-Travel?A short-travel bike is both more difficult to ride and harder on the body, so why would someone, especially a rider whose bike spends more time on a chairlift or in the back of a pick-up truck than it does pointing up a hill, choose to ride one?
It's how these less-forgiving bikes react to the terrain and, much more importantly, respond to rider input, that makes them so enjoyable. For example, an enduro bike, simply because of the traction provided by its slack geometry, can often require a hard stab of the rear brake to square off a corner or make an abrupt line change, whereas a trail bike might only request that you lighten its rear-end and commit to the line. Yes, it might be easier (read: require less skill) to get the job done on the big rig, but nailing a formidable line on a little bike is infinitely more rewarding than the same move on a forgiving DH sled.
The same can be said of nearly any scenario you might encounter on the mountain, from the drop or jump with the sniper landing that will punish a short-travel bike and its rider, to the fast and chundery sections of trail that force you to pick the optimum line instead of simply leaning back and letting the big bike do the work for you. It's when you master finer inputs and the sharper handling of your steed that things come together to create an experience that is hard to equal aboard anything else.
With their ability to carry immense speed on truly challenging terrain, enduro bikes are fearsome ground coverers when they are called for. That speed is one of the main reasons that we take part in this sport, isn’t it? Actually, I'm not convinced, and I'd argue to my grave that it isn't actually the out-and-out speed that makes a ride memorable, but the smaller moments that stand out.
Nailing that move, big or small, and setting the bike down right at the top of the transition. That long manual through the trees on a foot-wide piece of singletrack. It's pulling Gs through a set of linking berms. It's the rear end breaking loose on that one tricky corner, throwing up a brown spray that you can see behind you out of the corner of your eye. All of these moments can happen more easily, and more often on a shorter-travel bike because they use geometry that allows entry and expert-level riders (which is 98% of us, by the way) to smash berms with ease, run smaller volume and less forgiving tires that break loose with less effort, and can usually brag about being light enough to allow a rider to really throw it around.
Don't get me wrong; there are many places and trails where a big bike is not only a blast to ride but also the key to survival. The problem is that more often than not these bikes are being ridden on trails that don't require that level of forgiveness, and the riders aboard them have somehow convinced themselves that the opposite is true. The reality is that while some of you may go slightly slower on a shorter-travel bike, I can almost guarantee that you'll have more fun.
Short-Travel Bike DefinedWith 8'' of suspension obviously being less than 10'', one could interpret the short-travel in a number of different ways. Also, it's surely terrain dependent, with those who you live and ride in Whistler and other areas of B.C. calling their 6'' travel rigs 'little bikes', whereas 6'' of travel makes for a very 'big bike' in many other parts of the world. We have to draw a line in the loam somewhere, so I'm going to declare that, at least in the confines of this op-ed, a proper short-travel machine should have around 5'' of travel or less. And let's not forget about the good old-fashioned hardtail, of course. All other variables are wide open: single-speed, single ring, triple or double, it doesn't matter. Coil or air-sprung? Not important. And the same goes for the rest of the build. Unlike a few years ago, there are more than a handful of well-designed and capable short-travel bikes on the market, but that number seems to shrink proportionately as the bikes go down in shock stroke.
A short-travel bike simply has to work harder than a machine with more travel, meaning that it absolutely must be designed in such a way to allow the rider to get the most from what little it has on offer; the shorter the travel, the better the bike's suspension and angles must be. As you can imagine, this quickly eliminates many options on the market.
Skill, Not SuspensionI was recently arguing this opinion with a number of fellow mountain bikers, using the points made above and feeling quite smug about the case that I was making, when it was pointed out to me by photographer Victor Lucas that bike choice is often the culmination of not just the terrain it's going to be used on, but also what type of bikes your riding partners are going to be aboard. This thought hadn't ever occurred to me, but it certainly does carry weight. If your local riding scene consists of nothing but friends on long-travel bikes, it's understandable that it's hard to make the jump to a bike that might make it harder to ride with them. But what if, after getting used to the bike and honing your skills, you
could keep up with them? Even the lightest and most nimble of enduro bikes are numb beasts compared to a well-set-up shorter-travel machine. Ride one of these smartly spec'd bikes at speed and it's like the bike is having a conversation with you about the trail, either letting you know you're doing something right by rewarding you with speed and agility or, on the other hand, punishing you if you deserve it.
I believe that is the very reason that many riders go up in travel rather than down when it comes time for a new bike - more suspension simply makes the bike easier to ride. But what about the sense of accomplishment that comes with nailing a tricky section not because the bike allowed you to do it, but because of your skill?
Bikes have improved tremendously over the last decade since this op-ed was first posted, so does Levy's opinion still make sense? Or has geometry and suspension evolved to the point where the downsides to having more suspension travel and a slacker head angle are less of a factor on the trail?
If less is more we'd all be riding bmx because we could have just as much fun in a parking lot as we do on the trails. Its not simply the amount of fun that matters, its where you had that fun and what you had to overcome to get it!
If they are having fun riding their bike, what's it matter if it's a V10 or a hard tail and if it's a car park or a trail ?
I'm not trying to be World Champ, but I'll stick with my DH bike thanks - We can't have every tool for every job Levy.
I think part of it is that mentality that says "well he's riding one - so i should too"
Nothing against DH bikes, they are fun, but take the skill out of riding for most of us.
I've used a 224, Supreme, Glory (None of which I have anymore), I don't have as much time as I used to, I just ride everything on my Nomad now.
BUT... the bike I miss the most was a Gary Fisher King Fisher with 180 domains dual front ring (that was always the bike I had fun on) You could still pedal uphill and still shred the hell out of any course and still keep up with mates on 8's.
But how awesome would it be to win your local DH race filled with the typical 8" setups on a hardtail?
Glory be, at least ONE of us didn't bother to read the article...
He is SPECIFICALLY talking to us, the average rider, the normal PB user, and speaking against us trying to just be like the pros before we can even ride correctly.
The article never once says that pros should change their rigs, and I'm pretty sure no one would try to say that... After all, they should know better than we do what type of bike will work for them.
This is about US, and why there's so many (forgive the term) posers trying to ride something bigger than their terrain allows.
When I left Colorado, I sold my DH bike. Haven't bought one since. You know in central FL (born and raised there) there's a place with almost a dozen "freeride" drops over 10 ft. (and one at 24 ft. and change) and there are multiple guys who drop them on hardtails! This isn't an indictment of the ones that have "DH" rigs there, but is it necessary anywhere in the state? Hell no!
Even where I live now, here in WV, the only way you'd need one is at Snowshoe, and even there, it isn't necessary.
I have a Ragley Troof with 160 Domains out front, and if I were simply more carefree (like I used to be at 15), I'd be doing all that crap just the same on this rig. As it stands, it serves as a perfect do-it-all bike here.
Just get on it and ride. The bike I mean.
The other is the idea that since a trail can be ridden on a shorter travel bike, that that's what we should be doing. Personally I'll do whatever I want and so should everyone else. Some might like the challenge of navigating and beating themselves up gnarly terrain trying to get down it on a short travel bike, some may just like to crush it on a DH bike. Its preference, and people should do what they want.
But I think that sometimes comes down to cost. Not everyone can have a full stable of bikes. Me personally I have a DH bike and a short travel XC/Trail bike. I ride the DH bike for weekend DH and bike park riding, and the trail bike for exercise and after work trail rides. Without buying another bike this fits me best. I'm not getting rid of the DH rig because while its overkill at times, there some trails its absolutely required. And I'm not replacing my 4" travel XC bike with a 6"+ rig. No matter how many times a PB review tells me one of these long travel all mountain bikes "pedals surprisingly well", its not when I want to be riding on a 20 mile trail ride.
I started on a Trek Bruiser Hardtail, got wreaked a couple times, moved up to a Norco shore a couple years later (I considered that AM/FR) and I'm currently looking for a larger rig. Even though I don't technically fall into this article as part of the group in question, I feel like I'm being called out.
I agree, I see too many scene kids riding Trek Sessions who have no business or idea how to ride one. Yet I've seen many progress like mad when starting on a DH-ish rig, but It really falls on the individual.
That being said, I have no plans on returning to a hardtail for DH. I ride trails that require a DH/FR/SS rig, and it's more fun to ride those trails on them. I can't afford two bikes, and I don't really want a "jack-of-all-trades" bike ( I see why people do though). I don't want to be a pro either, I just want to have fun.
We have a tool for every job. If someone wants to ride an A-line on a blue or green run, I say let em. Different strokes for different folks.
I like knowing that as far as my bike is concerned no trail is too much. Its all on me to make it happen.
Someday I'll be able to afford a second bike, and I plan to buy a 5-6" that I will use pretty much everywhere but the bike parks. Until then, try not to snicker at me when I pass you on the XC trail.
I recently sold my DH race bike as I found wallowing in the suspension annoying. I now ride a 150mm bike and feel more confident in the rough stuff knowing what the bike will do, and being able to throw it around easier. Granted I don't ride alpine descents all the time, but with the advancements in technology, the suspension on my 150mm bike is far superior to that of the Orange 222 I rode 10 years ago.
Each to their own, but if you genuinely want to go faster and can afford more than one bike, learning to be smooth on a hardtail/BMX will be highly beneficial!
Now i ride a Devinci Frantik with 180mm travel. i can do both my local and bike park, i just had to practice more on tabletops so i dont take a dirt nap
great article. will we have article of the year? there's been some both technical and provoking reads of late.
You missed the whole point of the argument. He's not saying ride only BMX and only in the parking lot. To stay with your analogy: He is saying get a BMX instead of a trail bike when you do ride in the parking lot and get a trail bike to ride trails instead of a DH rocket. He continues to argue that this will grow your skill set as a rider and better prepare you to take on the next level of riding...
Mike, I'm feeling you are just saying that "you should ride a hardtail before getting a downhill rig, because that's the way to learn. period." Let people do what they wanna do ! There will always be people who buy overkill bikes, that are not suited for them or the type of terrain they ride !! Heck, I see that a lot on road bikes ! Guys who buys 10k $ carbon road bikes and lycra, and looks like they are sponsored by coors light !! Is the only way to really feel rewarded by a good ride is to be on a hardtail, because downhill bikes are too easy to ride ? I'm just feelin' you had an E-beef on this one, this wasn't a question asked to the community, but rather your own personal observation; But I agree on one point though; Downhill bikes aren't versatile enough and a 6" ride is more than enough if not too much, for the average rider, and by that I mean us, me included.
Let the neg props begin !
Just my opinion, each to his own that's what I say
The point of me typing all that down was to say that a you grow in skill, your bike might very well grow with you. In both size and travel.
In no way am i saying, "Your a shitty rider if your on a hardtail!!" i'm just saying I think riders should start on a hardtail. You become smooth and very very fit. I have so many friends who are on hardtails and they will absolutely smoke my sorry ass when I'm on my 5.9inch Heckler.
10% bike
90% rider
That's my 2cents.
I was on the podium for all my DH races this year (with the exception of the canadian open) if anybody was curious about the DH team part....
Cheers!
not the people who already ride DH or just picked it up after riding HT/AM for many years.
Of course, there are situations where a 8" is totally justified... but where I ride everyone is on a 8" and the only 2 trail sections where, in my opinion, is really justified to ride a 8", it's usually super loose and overgrown with weeds as hardly anybody dares to ride them. This screams to me that most riders prefere fashion over function. I guess even extreme sports won't escape the "EVERYTHING EASY NOW" mentality...
When you see the coastal crew going bigger on stumpjumpers than probably 90% of the riders here on 8", this small bike argument makes a lot of sense.
Now, a little over a year since I bought that Demo, I LOVE RIDING. It's all I can think about. It's all I ever want to do. I've hit drops that are taller than I am with my hands above me head. I've flown sideways through the air over a 30 ft tables. I've done that 'river' gap. I've ridden that 6inch wide knife edge with cliffs on both sides.
Yes, I know I could probably hit any of these features on a shorter travel bike, but I would have NEVER in a million years even considered it if I hadn't learned, progressed, gained skills and confidence from having a DH bike.
Take a line for the bike you are riding, its easier to pop and hop the XC bike on the faster stuff, but when it gets steep its the...... wheels and tyres that are the biggest compromise, XC (down country, all mountain, marathon or whatever its called today) bike with big tyres is better than enduro bike as an overall bike. Enduro bikes are incredible, but are too much of a compromise when its up or flat or slightly down. The article hits the nail on the head about head angle!!!!
160/160 enduro bike for pedal days
Full blown DH bike for Whistler or heavy shuttle days.
I find that my enduro just doesnt take the abuse of a park day quite like a DH bike. It may help if i cased less though.
Increased travel should be like a reward, like moving through the feeder series of motorized racing to upper echelon.
This is the only way rookies survive their first year in the full pro class. They show up hungry, and with the tools they’ve been craving.
Interesting.
I come from Moto, and take on lower travel bikes because of the challenge. And, I can’t sit and spin for very long.. That’s on me, nothing about the bike.
I’m out always of the saddle, doing incredibly inefficient things to get up some nasty climb. Any long(er) travel bike will punish me for this..
I ride trails, on a trail bike. But if I were doing all my riding at a bike park, I’d quit Mtn biking and go back to Moto instead. Seems to be cheaper!
I think im always going to keep two bikes though. I hate being sidelined when i inevitably break something on a bike.
I remember quite a few years ago, Mike Levy himself going down a whistler blue trail after looking and laughing at me and my friends going down - it was their first ever day on a real mountain bike, they really wanted to try it in the park, and they had DH bike, armor, and were scared AF to even start going in after reading all the signs about accidents and shit. My friends had no idea who he was, but I read pinkbike since day one so yeh lol...
Big bikes make it safer and easier. I've helped countless new mtbers start. It's actually more fun to go to smaller bikes once you've learned the skills and figured things out - it's also way safer to start big and go smaller later. I don't know how many first timers have been convinced to get an XC or light trail bike due to such articles and feeling "bad" about getting a bike that's "for pros" or "too big" and they fall and they fall and some end up at the hospital, then eventually sell the bike and get an enduro bike - magic, they have more fun, they hurt less, too (or just quit after the first hospital trip when they tried to send something even I wouldn't touch on an XC bike)
IMO the only folks that need smaller travel are the ones that'd go around like you would on a gravel bike, or perhaps are kids/very light, or will never really even do anything past what you'd consider a green trail, basically. Just go enduro directly and figure things out later. It's safer, it's more fun too. After 2-3years you can sell it and get your down country bike, if you want.
"What was I saying again? Oh yeah, these 27.5 inch bikes will never take off..."
Sounds like you need a hug!
You didnt have to add to your collection of negative comments on this thread, but I recon you just cant help yourself.
I love riding my 5" bike.
I love riding my hardtail.
I love riding my DH bike on smooth flowy trails, steep gnarly trails, even up the street.
I love riding my 5" bike on smooth flowy trails, steep gnarly trails, even up the street.
I love riding my hardtail bike on smooth flowy trails, steep gnarly trails, even up the street.
Sometimes I just like the feeling of riding a DH bike.
Sometimes I just like the feeling of riding a 5" bike.
Sometimes I just like the feeling of riding a hardtail bike.
But admitedly, I can think of a very few occasions where I've thought, "I don't need my DH bike here". Or, "I'm a bit shit scared on my hardtail". But I still had fun.
But mostly I have fun, regardless of what bike I'm on.
8 inches for anything
0 inches for XC/Trail
@Mikey ... give me 5.5/6 i will it too
this world don't left me much option
I think in a race, most people will push to their control threshold. That would mean that riding a hardtail is safer because that limit will be reached at a lower speed.
Having said that, I like the idea of having a competitive bike in races, at the expense of a little less fun the rest of the time. I have a Corsair Konig (130mm) bike, and I'm planning to upgrade to a Wilson (216mm). Even though I know the Konig will be more fun 90% of the time, it will also be slower in a race.
This is just an idea that I'm not sure about as I've never done it, but wouldn't it be possible to fit a harder spring than normal to a DH bike to effectively reduce its travel for general riding duties? If you went for a spring 50% harder than your standard spring, wouldn't that limit the travel that you actually use by about 50% (except on really big hits)? I love the look of the Wilson and the geometry, but I would prefer to run it with 6-7" of travel most of the time, while still maintaining its serious DH credentials when needed.
...
Didn't Peaty win his first DH race on a hardtail????
" I think HT's are something ALL riders SHOULD have... I grew up racing/riding BMX and frankly some younger riders have grown WAY too acustom to having suspension to bail them out. a nice HT can help you with line choice and teach you how to use the biggest bit of suspension on your bike: YOUR BODY Not to say HT's are only for "training", but they certainly can make a good rider even better. Try taking a HT to your favorite DH track and wrk on going as fast as you can on the HT and I think you;ll be REAL surprised at how much faster you are when you get back on the squishy bike aye. The Days of 20ft rock "dorps to falt" are nearly gone in most places, so with a good transition even shrt-travel fullys are more fun. Plus on a HT you'll be amazed at how you start to see every trail as a pump-track and you'll be popping off every root nd bump, you know the stuff your "squishy bike" just sucks up and floats over??? yeah that is some of my favorite stuff to hit on the HT. Are you gonna beat someone down a WCDH track on a HT??? No, but if you train on one I'll bet you get to be a LOT faster as you learn to pump for your speed and choose lines that keep you speeding along. There will always be need for good FS bikes, but HT's are just too much fun to write off. hell SOME of us older guys ONLY had HT's when we were inventing this whole sport and we're still alive to tell about it "...
Back when I lived in CO and frequented Mojo Wheels, the owner saw me hacking through the jumps behind the shop on a bike I was test riding, and he asked if I had a BMX bike or a 24" cruiser. I didn't, and said so. He then loaned me one to ride for my next urban session, and I promptly bought one.
Why? First, because he said that it would make me smoother and faster (he was a smart fella, so I took advice where I could get it), and second, because in one ride, I felt myself working harder and faster to maintain my lines I was attempting (street riding), and that was leading to smarter riding on my part. A little faith, and to this day, I still keep a 24" bike in my stable, without fail. Great learning tool, and Bob was totally right;
"Smooth and fast on smaller wheels, smoother and faster on bigger wheels."
I'm a big fan of the steep technical gnar stuff and I always go apeshit when I find new challenging terrain but to be honest these days, I've been having a lot more fun riding tamer trails on a 5.7". Jumping is more fun because with less suspension you lose less energy going up jumps and the shorter sag stroke makes it a lot easier to get more speed pumping the trail features. Also, when you weight 145lbs, the 10lbs difference between a 40lbs dh sled and a 30lbs makes a HUGE positive difference on bike handling and tricking. My cornering, the area I lacked the most, also got a lot better on a very short time. You can also pedal up... To me the list of benefits is almost endless.
I will never regret riding a 8" because the extra confidence made my overall riding skyrocket but even though I have more than enough money to own 2 bikes, I'm thinking of selling the bigger one because quite frankly, I don't think it's worth keeping for the 5% of the trails I ride where it's totally justified.
Put it this way: Who has a Ferrari and actually NEEDS a Ferrari? Dunno about you but most of the roads round here are 30-50pmh limit, and they aren't exactly polished races surfaces either. Yet that doesn't stop some people. I judge their waste of money but since trail and DH bikes can be pretty price comparable that's not really applicable here.
At one point, I was riding a Giant Anthem Advanced and Giant AC. When I rode the AC, it felt sluggish and even with the extra suspension 6.6" compared to 3.5", I never felt like I was getting any better because the suspension was hiding all of my riding flaws. This past year, I dedicated 100% of my riding time on the 3.5" traveled Anthem up on the North Shore, riding the likes of Severed Dick, Pingu, 7th Secret, Pipeline, and it definitely made me a better rider teaching to keep momentum, body position, and using my limbs for suspension. There are still sections of certain trails which I wish I had a bit more suspension...but as I push myself each time...I am forced to improve improve improve.
One day, I will end up back on the big(ger) bike and hopefully the skills I learned through riding a short traveled bike will transfer over.
I will draw an example from this weekend, My local downhill spot is Aston Hill, and it attracts a lot of visitors of all skill levels. There were many people there this weekend who were clearly new to the sport, yet sporting bikes with 7" and upwards of travel, and also a lot of newbies on cheap-o hardtail bikes. At the start of the day, they were pretty much on a level playing field in terms of skill level, but as the day progressed a larger and larger gap between the group began to form. The guys on the long travel bikes were pushing themselves harder, and trying new things because of the confidence inspiring nature of the bigger bikes. Big bikes= Confidence= Progression.
This was backed up when one of the guys on the cheapo bikes asked if he could have a little go on my bike, and i obliged, now he wasn't exactly steve peat, but he was defiantly faster on the longer travel bike, and he even hit a jump that he had been avoiding all day on the HT bike.
Furthermore, my riding buddy was on a 4x hard-tail that day. Same thing applied with him, He was much, much faster on the bigger bike.
This article may apply to you, in your local riding area Mike, but to the most of us who have the terrain (in my opinion anyway), A bigger bike is better. I find it kind of stupid saying that only the top level pro riders need 8" travel bikes.
I will mention that i come from a BMX background, so i do have a good level of bike handling, which is something that many newbies lack.
@ Apete - I need to point out that replaceable drop-outs are not affecting the head angle on the Voltage, they only make the chainstay longer or shorter (i.e. long for DH, short for dirt).
Safe riding dudes!
This article is all about countering the populous. No matter when or what the popular trend is, the same people are countering against it. I'm surprised we aren't reading an article on the benefits and joys of using bar-ends! It feels exciting to go against the norm and create a valid and strong argument. I get that. It's such a powerful feeling, but it is a fleeting one. As soon as enough people join your cause it's the norm, and that's no fun to fight for!
I ride for fun. Whatever bike is most fun for you, ride it, and quit worrying about how other people are having fun.
If I'm heading out on an xc ride with slower riders often i'll take the big bike just to slow me down and make me work harder. One old school local legend guy here used to take his intense m1 out on the Saturday bunch ride just to depress the roadies... And yes he smoked them...
Yes i suppose little bikes in gravity parks are fine if your sponsor/mummy buys you a new bike every season or you ride like a pussy... but they don't last that long with harder use. I've got a small bike graveyard in my shed to back that up...
I'm lucky to be able to own and ride all types of bikes (except road bikes cause they suck and yes i just said that ) and to be honest i have the same fun on all of them as really its the people i ride with that counts more to me. If your not having fun on whatever bike either your local spot is lame, your too fat, or your mates suck.
That's not a reason to hate on DH rigs though.
Again: I've owned both. The EE was replaced by an Exie which is in a whole other league climbing than the EE when things get technical and rough. You'd have to get the EE rear shock revalved to compensate for its anti squat and shock tune.
For me, the sweet spot was trying out a trail bike , with 27.5 wheels. Less travel, better climbing than an enduro bike AND most importantly: less weight.
Extra weight and 29” wheels are two of the biggest reasons I haven’t bought a new bike in awhile.
The problem for now: Is I might just have to buy that trail bike…
www.mtbr.com/threads/ripmo-build-up-weight-large-black-27-26-lbs-not-bad.1073906
Should be noted I am a 160 pound xc racer and do not ride sharp jagged rocks in the desert. Weight with pedals as follows, my math could be off (I've never weighed dropper/shift cable or dropper/shift housing):
Large v2 frame/float X: 2958g
Cane Creek 110: 96g
Mezzer Pro cut steerer: 2075g
WTB 143 saddle: 197g
OneUp V2 150mm: 494g
760 carbon 15mm rise 168g
50mm gray stem: 74g
Wolftooth lever: 38g
Xx1 cassette: 348g
Xx1 crank 32T ring: 432g
Bb: 75g
X01 chain: 235g
Xtr trigger: 124g
Xtr derailleur: 239g
Xtr m9000 brake: 206g and 190g (396g)
180mm rotors: 252g
Dissectors 3C/exo/TR: 898g and 917g (1815g)
32H DT240 carbon alloy tape stem: 1388g
Esi grips: 51g
Sealant: 60g each tire 120g
Bontrager Comp spd pedals: 290g
Total: 12228g = 26.9 pounds with pedals, and if I run XR4 Team Issue 29x2.4 for less aggressive trails it loses 282 grams for a total of 26.3 pounds. I would not run my titanium eggbeaters on a bike like the Ripmo, one rock bash and you're riding home grumpy.
Should be noted I am a 160 pound xc racer and do not ride sharp jagged rocks in the desert. Weight with pedals as follows (I've never weighed dropper/shift cable or dropper/shift housing:
Large v2 frame/float X: 2958g
Cane Creek 110: 96g
Mezzer Pro cut steerer: 2075g
WTB 143 saddle: 197g
OneUp V2 150mm: 494g
760 carbon 15mm rise 168g
50mm gray stem: 74g
Wolftooth lever: 38g
Xx1 cassette: 348g
Xx1 crank 32T ring: 432g
Bb: 75g
X01 chain: 235g
Xtr trigger: 124g
Xtr derailleur: 239g
Xtr m9000 brake: 206g and 190g (396g)
180mm rotors: 252g
Dissectors 3C/exo/TR: 898g and 917g (1815g)
32H DT240 carbon alloy tape stem: 1388g
Esi grips: 51g
Sealant: 60g each tire 120g
Bontrager Comp spd pedals: 290g
I run XR4 Team Issue 29x2.4 for less aggressive trails it loses 282 grams for a total of 26.3 pounds. I would not run my titanium eggbeaters on a bike like the Ripmo,
Dude needs to be truthful and throw it on a hanging scale as it is ridden.
And running XTR M9000 brakes is disingenuous. Those are XC specific, are around 200 grams per brake, just shy of 400 grams total.
Compare that to the typical single Code RSC that is around 400 grams per brake, he is saving 400 grams total, or 0.9 pounds! I've had XTR 9000 brakes, no servowave, no modulation, very prone to fade on descents. XC Brakes on a Ripmo is like having Ford Ranger brakes on a Ford Raptor.
So between tires and brakes, he is saving close to if not more than 2 pounds. But those two points of contact to me and most of us out there are items that you simply don't want to skimp on.
Thus far in 2022 I've climbed in races and training just a hair over 700,000 vert. I'm going to pick the lightest of components that are fitting for the bike, my weight, my budget, and terrain whether it's the Ripmo or otherwise.
How much do you weigh and how steep and long are your trails? I bet you're a lot heavier and your trails are a lot steeper and longer than mine. Just like being overbiked there's being over-spec'd.
Did you want me to list the actual weights of my 22.4 pound large Exie? I'm sure you'd get in a big tizzy knowing its crankset is 7 grams lighter than the XX1 and the DT Swiss ratchet is 8 grams than the Ripmos. Let it go, brah, let it go.
I'm not about to change my build, but it's good to have a reference point when stuff wears out. And either way, the best value weight reduction I can do right now is off me!
Woah ! c'mon Mike, lets leave that side of the sport out of it eh !
As an old"er" fart, the big bike has given me the cockiness to take on things I never thought I ever would. I've also had 160mm trail bikes, but of late I've found my riding to plateau a lot, even getting worse after a few injuries.
I decided to take it down a notch and get myself an aggro hardtail, bring the grin factor to riding and going back to basics. I still have my DH rig of course, but I'm loving rediscovering and finding out the things I take for granted on a big squishy bike.
There's also something to be said for the fact that when you rock up with a HT, there is no expecting faces thinking that you need to shred and justify that expensive 8" between your legs (oooh err). I can just rock up and have fun.
But.. I must say.. a full suspension bike does help a lot when riding those kind of trails. I remember when I started riding. My hardtail bike frame was literally made of iron pipes.. and the fork had maybe 1 inches of travel. Just a spring inserted with lot of grease. I had amazing time. There was no high end bikes in my country that time... But riding skill changes..and it did for me too...and i started experimenting.
I think it also depends upon the individual choices or preference. People do offroading on quad bikes, people love offroading in a Hummer too.. and then here comes mountain bikes. I have no idea what am i writing now...so i must end this by saying... I think Enduro Bikes these days looks fantastic and bridges the gap. You can do so much with them.. going big to climbing big. Whatever mountain bike you have or ride... till you enjoy riding..it makes sense. Mountain Bike is forever!
A lot of people wouldn't accept a frame with the weight of almost a DH-rig but with "only" 160mm of travel. Also the most of the bikes didn't offer a rearend which has some serios progression in it so hit the trail like you would do it on a full on 200mm bike. A light frame combined with tiny air shocks like Fox RP keeps banging through the travel and heat up over a long descent, loosing the abillity to keep your backwheel traction because the oil is so hot that you loose your rebound...
Conclusion? I keep searching for a 160mm frame which is able to resist some serios beating without feeling like a noodle (stiffnesswise) and offer a good compromise between BB height and headangle.
vimeo.com/40560345
You don't need more travel, you need better skills. If you "can't" ride the same trails with either 8" or 5" then you probably can't ride.
Don't be fooled though. Pinkbike wants us all on the latest industry trends. If they had it their way we'd all be riding 29/650b bikes. When was the last time anyone was shredding a gnarly trail way over their head and thought to themselves, "if only these 26" wheels and 7" of travel weren't holding me back!". Personally, never.
So don't be fooled by pinkbike and their 29" ambitions, but do recognize that everyone can benefit from riding a hardtail, bmx, or moto. And if you don't have proper dh trails to ride, don't buy a dh bike duh!?
However, what the article omits is the fact that most of people don't really ride to progress but to have fun. This in turn takes us back to the disclaimer: Different strokes for different folks. I firmly believe that most amateur riders on long travel bikes ride them exactly because these bikes are forgiving of a rider's lack of certain skills and exactly because these bikes don't require riders to log hours on end on the trail (or worse yet in the gym) just to be able to get down some of the steeper runs and larger drops.
Personally, I'd rather stick my hard earned dollars into a better kit or a carbon frame than into a super long travel suspension or 2 foot rotors with brakes will bring a semi to a dead-stop in the blink of an eye but I do also see the appeal in that.
I routinely have to ask riders on monster bikes to let me past on all but the most gnarly sections at local resorts.
Experience allows me to navigate my HT over most everything, but it is hard work.
On those days I feel off my game, or just lazy, I ride down on a couch. I can get to the bottom a tad quicker, but I feel emptier, as the adrenalin rush is lessened.
On board the HT, I need to be sharp as a laser, or I'll eat it...atop 8", I can (usually) let skill & experience fly out the window.
Both are great, but learning bike-handling skills on HT or 4" bikes is the way to go.
Do both - get strong and have fun.
I'm not sure everyone will see this message the same, as they compare it to their own available trails. I'm not sure that feather-light weight-weinie XC racer has much of a place at a freeride park, but that's not to say that a heavy-duty hardtail wouldn’t make you a little more conscious of the line you chose, or where you are balanced over your bike. Maybe look at an enduro race, where you need to apply some torque to the wheels on the pedal portions, and still be able to handle some speed on the downhill sections. Is this an argument for your perfect one-bike-quiver, or to spend some time on the "small" bike to maximize your experience when you use the "big" one? I don't know, but I hope everyone comes away with some critical thought on why they are riding which bike any given day.
I was reminded of some of that fun after a couple seasons on my "big" bike almost exclusively, when renting a hard tail XC bike from Liberty Bikes while on vacation in Asheville NC. Getting that Trek 6500 off the ground, feeling the acceleration, or making it over those obstacles or through that washed out area at speed, all felt great. And this was at Bent Creek forest, on not really the most difficult terrain, but an awesome day anyway. So this brought me back to splitting time on all of my bikes.
So I guess my 2 cents is that there can be value and fun on any bike, and that there may be some wisdom in trying to push your own skills while using a potentially less capable bike.
I have fallen into the same trap, but 4 years later all I use is a HT and 100mm FS. The fun comes form flying over obstacles on a light bike, railing corners, flicking the bike side to side and passing guys on longer travel bikes.
I recently built a Demo 8, a bike that is just not sold at any shop where I live. Everyone asked If I was going to test it out at our local trails, my prompt response was no, I built it to send to a family member's house who lived in the Sierras.
Out in the Sierras I also brought a 100mm travel Specialized Epic and I started by having my wife shuttle me to the top of a few of the local trails and the demo was a blast, allowing me to hit features I was not able to hit before. Then I started riding the epic and found the trails more enjoyable. I wasn't able to hit some of the features I could have with the Demo, but the Epic would accelerate out of the corners faster, clear jumps easier and overall make it down much faster. I can't tell you how many guys I caught up to and passed on the Epic and they were on bikes with 2X the travel (and quite surprised).
The Demo has it's place on the Black and Double black diamond runs at the local Bike Park, but for most things, 100mm travel will work just great. I actually enjoy riding the HT more, unless I am just tired and don't feel like picking lines.
I always encourage new riders to get a HT first. It helps you perfect your skills and read the bike and terrain better, then when you get a longer travel you can compare and be more lazy on trails.
^^^^ I disagree wholeheartedly with the above statement. Mike Hopkins anyone? He consistently jokes about his lack of skill on a hard tail, yet he crushes it harder than almost anyone on a DH bike. Do you think Ryan Dungey, Ricky Carmicheal, or James Stewart pissed about on hardtails before they decided they could race moto? That was a stupid remark by Levy. I fully believe that skills on a hardtail will transfer to bigger bikes, but just because you can't crush it on a hardtail doesnt mean you wont be able to crush it on a DH rig.
Most of the people I rode with as a kid never had the patience for something like trials riding. They all rode big bikes even though they lived nowhere near anything that warranted it & they all sucked pretty hard at anything beyond turning the wheels on the ground. I had a full suspension bike once, it was very limiting most of the time except on bumpy terrain. I didn't learn anything new on a full suspension bike. I'm a better rider thanks to my hard tails & thanks to watching the best riders in the world who also ride hardtails or rigid bikes.
No matter what you ride, if you wanna be a better rider & you have the opportunity, ride with those who are better than you. If you're the kind of person that owns the bicycle equivalent of an iPhone, then I'm sure you're afraid of riding with people who are better for fear of looking bad but you won't overcome your limitations if you can't admit that those limitations exist in the first place. Your status as a rider is always determined by how you ride, never by what you ride. What you can do with the tool is what matters, not what tool you use.
To summarise stop hating on people who chose a downhill bike if there happy that's all that matters and the same goes for a shorter travel bike if your happy then great. We should all be supporting one another not putting each other down because of what we ride.
I tried a nukeproof mega for a brief period but felt a bit lost,
it would plough though the rough like the big bike but wouldn't install confidence on the big jumps.
For the riding I do I prefer either hard tail or 8"
I would have liked to try a foes amx if they'd ever released it
At the end of the day, as long as they're honest about what kind of rider they are, it shouldn't matter what people ride, on what terrain and what level of ability. Everyone should be able to ride what they want without feeling that have to justify it to fit in with the current trend, which I feel this article propagates. In an ideal world, some people would be cranking out road miles on an Avalanche-sprung Karpiel, while others would be ripping Whistler on a carbon roadie, and no one would give a shit.
Whoever posted this;
www.pinkbike.com/u/cseachris/blog/To-Each-Their-Own.html
Said it much more eloquently and concisely than my ramble above did.
Dh-bikes are way better quality than your average slinky cc or xc. If they are not - dh-people wont buy - they want to ride and not fix. Bikes last 4 to 5 years under heavy abuse. Good investment.
Been riding dh since 1992 and today ride 200+/200 bikes and I want more travel and even lower BB and slacker angles... My skills improved everytime I had a better bike under my ass and now they also help minimizing and masking the effects of aging - like slower reflexes ;-(
To all beginners: Buy a long stroke bike and take it from there. Less fatiguing, less accidentprone,last longer and a huge amount of fun.
Definitely ties in with the point you are making here Mike; i.e choosing a bike that suits the type of riding.
The commentator also mentioned three of the leading riders had 3 different wheel sizes, another debate within a debate.
In my oppinion biggest problem with this article is that author somewhat is usurping right to judge what it is to have fun on the bike.
The problem is that there is no one definition of FUN. Some people are having fun on DH rig, others on rigid single speed.
There is no one way (thanks God...)
Cheers!
I.
Hmmm... Funny that the bike companies cancelled almost all "freeride" bikes, forcing everyone to buy a race sled.
I ride a 2009 COVE STIFFEE FR Hard-Tail with a FOX TALUS 100/120/140mm fork on it for Trail and Single-track work....... also a killer bike !
I ride a 2008 Santa Cruz BLUR LT2 Full Suspension rig with a 140mm fork on it and it does everything a hard-tail does but a little plusher........and a great bike to boot !
Just built a Santa Cruz SuperLite Full suspension rig with 100mm rear travel and a 120mm front Fox fork...........haven't ridden it yet,but I expect it to be on par with the Chameleon.......
And the bike I ride the most ?? A 2009 FETISH Fixation Single-Speed with a Rock-Shox 100mm Reba Race on it.......so simple,so light,and so fast.......4 inches of travel is always enough if your suspension is dialed in right.........The reason I answered this post is because ALL my bikes are short-travel bikes and they ride perfect and never bottom out !!
By the way..........I had a full Downhill rig too.......a 2007 GT DHI with 8 inches of Rock-Shox BOXXER and the best FOX rear coil money can buy ..........great bike for doing one thing...............Going downhill fast ! That's it............sold that bike,never rode it much. Case closed............
new lines on old trails. So, I will push the like button for Mike Levy's short travel op-ed. It worked for me.
Long travel bikes are certainly more comfortable but make you lazy and give a false impression of safeness !
After all this long time I decided to go back now and join the dark side ...hardtail, 29" and steel...its plain more fun!
www.2soulscycles.com/products/quarterhorse-qqhq-98
But can't the same be said on some level about almost all the products this site pushes on a regular basis? Every new advance in mountain biking is designed to essentially make the bike ride better and handle terrain better is it not? Smoother suspensions, wider bars, lighter carbon parts, dropper posts, etc. All these products make bikes ride and handle terrain better correct? Make it easier to ride.
So I mean why the push against only the DH bike? Is the article rallying against the dropper post next? Telling us that real men just take it to the nuts on the downhills?
The truth is that these 6 inch "short" travel bikes Levy is advocating now were essentially what downhill bikes were 10 years ago. So what you can almost say he's against the advancements in technology and that's fine, I agree that alot if it is not needed. But like I said it seems hypocritical in a way coming from a site who is constantly featuring the latest and greatest technology.
I moved to Calgary in September from Vancouver and went and rode at Canada Olympic Park (which is a very small hill, that does a fairly good job at making the best of what they have) and was surprised at the amount of people with long travel DH bikes who solely ride at that park. Not to slag them in any way, as I feel it's the fun that's more important but it certainly makes me curious as to why they chose to invest so much money into a bike that is very overkill for that kind of location.
Why didn't I keep riding a full suspension? It was a toss up between an Specialized Enduro, SC Nomad or a Cotic BFe. I wanted something fun and different to ride. In one season, I have yet to see another Cotic. No pivots. No sag. The 150mm soaks alot up. I have to keep a rear end light. That might be why when I rode the 5" bike mentioned above, I felt like I was going faster, it skimmed all but the biggest bumps. The Cotic also comes in at under 29lbs. Doesn't climb like a goat, but I never need to push it uphill. I keep up nicely with my friends riding 6" full suspension carbon bikes, even on the downhills. I'll get a full suspension again one day, but for now, I'm having too much fun...
back of a truck or on a chairlift, it's costing the rider money every time they go out. DH bike rides; in my mind;
require too much logistical planning and organization that could be better spend pulling the bike out and pedaling
up.
There have been too many times where I have been riding my chromoly hardtail and blasting by DH guys or leading a
pack to think big bikes are the only option. Perhaps even machismo plays a bit of a role when someone decides which
bike to buy. It could be the same reason guys buy giant trucks that never get used properly.
I have no problem with guys riding bike bikes. If you are having fun that is all that matters. But an ability to
explore anything, hammer the pedals to accelerate rapidly, and the satisfying feeling of a stomped technical
section.. nothing better!
And nothing is better then riding down a downhill trail on a 5" travel bike and passing a group of fully kitted out downhill riders with ease. that is the ultimate glory.
next season i am selling my downhill bike and my 5" bike and building up a really nice 6" bike because i know that is what i will have the most fun on
I do agree that its silly to see big bikes in the the wrong places (porcupine rim is one that I see often)..
Now I would never consider riding anything less than 30lbs with less than 5". The ability to ride a shorter travel bike like it's a downhill bike is way more important to me than a bikes performance uphill or on level terrain.
I think once you experience first hand what can be done on a Dh bike it makes you faster when you hop back on a short travel bike. Once you know whats possible you can gain skill by riding a short travel bike too. However, if you have never ridden a Dh bike you will never be as good at riding fast downhill on a short travel bike.
Looking forward to the transition Klunker
I'm now on my 2nd susser, a 150mm "do-it-all" but still love a hardtail & hope to have both soon as i still think they are more fun - which is what its all about.
Big bikes are common over here but rarely do you see anyone using them to their potential as we just don't have enough of the right terrain for them.
However, each to their own!
Also, and a point that Levy didn't make but it's also big imho, is that not everybody can afford more than one bike. I myself am in that group, and it makes no sense to me to have an 8' bike, even though some of my local trails have enough rocks and tricky stuff to make the use of a full dh sled reasonable. I find that a short-shortish (right now I'm on a Mondraker Prayer, 160 front and back air sprung) travel bike is the way to go in that case. With two rings and some patience, it gets me to the top of the trails and then lets me enjoy the way down even if there's technical stuff. Sure, I have to pick my lines more carefully, but it is indeed a great feeling when I find a new line or another way to do an old one and I flow through it carrying more speed than ever because of me and not because the bike is making up for my mistakes.
What I don't agree with, though, and I think it's just a part of the world popular trend (not only mtb) of going "retro/old fashion is great", is the hardtail part. I do agree that it'll hone your skills sort of, but riding a hardtail on a rocky and blunt trail is just calling for slipped pedals, unnecessary flats and not that much fun. Sure it looked fun in that video, but steep and slippery as it may be, there are not that many rocks or roots or uneven terrain which is where you fall in love with your rear a travel. Just my 2 cents. Hardtails are cool, but not for everything. Graves' pic is a pretty good summary I think.
PS: Also, Levy, if you could please elaborate a bit more on what well set-up means? Would be much appreciated.
I'm glad that I listened to him. It gave me all the skills that I needed to get better at what I wanted to do. www.pinkbike.com/photo/7606081 This was my last bike that I raced DH on in the Ontario Cup.
On downhill sled, it would be better to rail the crazier stuff with that. It simply makes it easier. Though to me easier isn't always "fun-ER".
Good article anyways.
I find myself mainly riding DH these days. I have been riding with a crew that likes to bomb and go stupid fast. On my DH bike I would keep up and would hit 90% of the stunts we come across. Now that I am older and working full-time, I am realizing that it really sucks when you crash going all-out on a DH bike and realized that just as much fun can be had on a smaller travel bike. Crashing while going slower hurts less. For the past few years I have found myself grabbing my "little bike" ie. Transition double/bottlerocket/xxxx/trance for the NorthShore and Whistler. I am the guy that hits crabapples on a 4 and 4" slopebike. Yah I am a tad slower because I have to pick my lines and its super scary going down the steeps, but I have more fun. Riding my "little bike" is more rewarding for me because I feel like I am doing what guys on DH bikes do and I only have less than half the travel. I still go bigger than I should on my little bike but i am just a tad slower on the speed/technical sections. I also feel more in control when riding skinnies on my little bike.
A couples years ago, a buddy and I decided to ride Mt.Seymour (CBC, Corkscrew, Pingu, Pangor) on our dirtjump hardtails with a front brake, DH tubes and smaller DH tires. Man was that a blast. We were going probably 60% of our normal speed but boy was it fun. Had to choose every single line and had to look at every single jump before hitting it. You guys should definitely try it. Change it up and ride "little bikes" once in a while on your DH mountain with your buddies. You will thank me. After riding a "little bike", you go stupid fast on a DH bike, TRUST ME. Now that I have read this article and shared my thoughts, I am going to rig up a DH worthy DJ hardtail again for this winter. Now with the cold/wet weather, Fromme and lower Seymour is calling me to ride it with a hardtail. PM me if you want to join. Happy Riding - Brian
I've been riding since 1990, and even now will pick up my 1993 hardtail, with 35mm of elastomer front suspension and take it out for a spin to keep my skills sharp. My gnarly bike is a Heckler for uplifts, and a superlight for faster XC. The bike I have used most this year is a 1997 Sintesi hardtail which I've done 600 miles on this year according to Strava, Vs 250 on the Heckler ...
The other point this misses entirely is are there enough 120mm tough bikes out there ? im not gonna even attempt to claim ive ridden enough bikes in that category to answer that question, but for the ones i have ridden, they have been crap in all fairness. Yes they climb, yes theyre fun because its about rider skill. But they also break down a lot due to mainly the fact theyre all spec'd around weight. now you could argue that "well put better components on then" which then adds weight and leads to the arguement "well if im gonna have to crank a ton of weight up hill why am i going to settle for a 32mm fork with 9 mm drop outs when i could have a 34/5/6 mm fork with better tech and the potential for more travel?" (key point to note there being if you have solo air or similar just because the fork is spec'd at 160mm do you need to run it that way ?)
Im a firm believer in having at least 2 bikes, a "hardcore hardtail" and a do it all full sus. The skills you learn on each one crossover and make you a better rider. EG: Theres no way im gonna try a drop for the first time on a hardtail so i'll try it on the full sus and once comfortable with it i'll give it a go on the hardtail.
There was nothing wrong with the glory but I am very glad I made the change as it has improved my riding no end.
I do think its simply down to personal preference and what type of bike suits your riding style, also some people may not lack ability but confidence and a long travel bike can help improve the confidence and so let the ability shine through.
Thats my two cents, let the debate continue.
I hear it all the time, people that say a DH or FR bike to too much bike for them. In many of these posts I'm hearing things like I don't need that much travel. I think saying things like that is missing the point. If you have to everyone could get along with no travel, but that doesn't mean more travel is worse. One point is a lack of developing skills. Yeah you can damage you skills if you lean too much on you bike, but more often than not better tools allow for you to take your natural abilities to the next level. At least there isn't the excuse of your bike holding you back. Until you have ridden a specific type of bike for a good amount of time there is little room for assumptions. Thinking you know what you are talking about when you haven't taken the time to try a specific type of bike is leaving you wide open. Each bike has an argument, along with each style. I speak of myself; I spent years not wanting to buy a certain type of bike because I assumed It would not meet my wants and I listened to all the other people who were also assuming. In a way I feel like I cheated myself for all the years spent in the dark because I didn't find out for myself earlier.
I truly beleive that all mountain "light medium travel" bikes are the way of the future if you don't race DH and can only get ONE bike.
I will always have a few myself. And yes the demo 7 is a freeride bike.
That said, My hard tail single speeded requires NO maintenance to speak of except a hose down and a lube after wet rides and will resist our cruel winter riding without busting the bank ever.
it´s just evolution that always be like this, i can´t even imagine what the next generation will have man it´s just crazy.
If I lived near DH/FR areas,big bikes and gear would be a lot of fun.
But, it's really good fun rolling through the local XC trails with a group of friends on HTs and short XC bikes.
In that context, a DH/FR bike would be ridiculous.
As with all other sports, horses for courses...
Agree 100%, for a lot of the average riders out there it's fashion over form. I started riding an xc bike years ago and gradually changed to a longer travel hardtail. This bike still gets ridden around here in Aspen area just as much as my Nomad, both are just as much fun as a DH bike, jut a different (more enjoyable for me) mindset is all.
Horses for courses.
Racers though and a bit general here are forced through competition to progress or die especially in DH, having hard-tail old-school skills really helps but DH skills also help a hardtail rider, in my case this G4 root fest with anaconda size roots natural drops ledges off camber that threw everything at me including the kitchen sink I used every trick and loved it, manuals wheeis, drops front wheel wheelis cutties whips and this is on single track that went on for miles. Basically I do think techology and marketing has dumbed our sport and also hurt the core of what mtb is for the average mtb rider, Hurting for Vert for example is a reminder of what real MTB was is about, but without going to those extremes, you rarely get to ride that nature of trail or environment, most riders live in an overly buff wide and tamed environment and many are riding too much travel for maybe 10% of the trail network while 90% of the network a 5"full sus max is all they need properly setup and tuned suspension wise also something most bike shops cant or don't do so the most consumers end up with very bad habits in bike know how and ride ability.
I do miss the bigger monster I left since it could eat everything in its path and forgive me for my lack of skill in the gnarly terrain, yet, I wanted to make a change to a more versatile and nimble bike I could do everything with, which means more fun, which is my reason for riding; threfore, I am truly satisfied with my decision. I am just starting this shorter travel endeavor, yet, it is looking great already.
My plan is to hit the trails with the AM crew but also with the DH crew, which is my main group of riding friends, and I am sure that my new bike will be able to keep up with that. And why not, even hit the trails with the XC crew every now and then, the bike can do all of them with the fun factor as a constant. I'll improve as a rider due to versatility, improved skill and of course, FUN.
Also, being only 14, a hardtail bike is definately the best thing for me as i'm in between beginner and intermediate in my riding. I believe that everybody should start on a hardtail and build up to full sus as their skills set improves.
I also agree with the idea of getting coaching. I've attended clinics such as Schley's 2-day freeride camp, and various other clinics put on by Joan Jones and Kat Sweet (yea, I've learned a TON about riding from these women, and my riding progressed more from their instruction than nearly anything else) and videos like Ryan Leech's Mastering the Art of Trials. Focusing on skill development pays huge dividends. I now coach a High School team, and it is fun to watch the learning curve of young riders as they learn techniques that improve their trail skills, and passion for a sport that can last a lifetime.
...Yea, I'm an old fart.
all the extra travel and weight just makes you sloppy. having the skill to finese the bike down the fastest line cannot be learned as well unless youve at some point
done it on a hardtail!
But my DH bike was getting fixed so a got my XC/DJ hardtail out, and absolutely shredded. it was the first fun Ive had in a while. It was awesome ripping turns on it. I got my downhill bike out on the same trail and did still shred, but it was no where near as fun. It was so much more predictable on my DH bike when i was going to break traction, on my hardtail it was always a surprise, and some times i left corners with much more speed than my downhill bike could ever carry and always left me with a huge grin on my face.
Overall, im going to ride my hardtail much much more.
Im not against any style of bike, ive owned nearly all of them and they all have positives, for instance on the flats/roads, riding to or from a trail im often overtaken by hybrid town bikes, theres no point trying to outride one of those on a full susser as they light as a feather, but if they were on a muddy trail then my bike would come into its own... so skill does have alot to play to a point, choosing your weapon to suit your skillset is alot more important in my humble "old-fart" opinion.
No type is better than the other, in reality it comes down to 2, well maybe 3 things, what your comfortable riding, your skillset, what you can sensibly afford to buy.
I started on 8" dh bike couple years back. It was smaller very old, steal, basically homemade frame, with hardly working suspension but at least nice double crown Junior T. But it was f*cking cool bike, which was way different from others and that i loved too. It took me a while to learn how to ride... bruises, crashes, flat tires, ripped helmets. But it the end I had a lot of fun, and big rig saved me lots of time. And there is an economical aspect too. Shorter travel bike, nice and light - true. But these guys are not really forgivable. You crash couple times and the thin aluminium its done like a pop can(I know some DH bikes are as hardcore fragile too).
I never rode hardtail or small travel bike. Until this summer , and you know what? I have no problem to drive that think and I am killing it the same way I am sending my DH bike. So its working the other way as well. I would say its individual thing and approach. I know that people say that its better if you starts from hardtail to full . But really is the difference so big ? You'll spend time to learn how to handle bike no matter if its DH rig or light short travel. Depends on the style and trails you wanna shred.
Call me immature, but I find it fun just to plough through the crazy shit because I can. I don't find it fun to carefully pick a line and tiptoe through it; I prefer having the faith in my bike just to eat up the stresses of me flying like a corpse through the gnarly stuff, and not having to worry about getting thrown off by a wayward root or rock. Yes, it's an unskillful and generally not-pretty way of riding, but in my opinion it's the most fun you can have on two wheels: Fun is what MTB's all about, for some that's leg-burning 30 mile XC rides, others it's technical descents on a trail bike, and me it's just unceremoniously throwing myself down shit that I don't even nearly have the skills to. Because I can.
In short, you can't argue for or against what bike to use, it's all a matter of personal preference. Why can't we all just get along?
I'm 40, grew up with ET and BMX but never raced, just trail rode/basiclly mountain biked. Was never that good. Worked as a messenger and trail rode on the same Kona Kula back in the 90s then didn't get back into it until half a year ago and bought a 29er hardtail, still thinking that FS had not been perfected and that most still rode hardtails...whoops...was I ever wrong! Love the 29" wheels for the techncal single track of Vancouver Island BC but think that a short travel FS would be better. It surely would climb super steep tech bits better but I grew up on lighter weight bikes that are tossable and yes the 29er is just that. We have a few popular trail networks near Victoria but none require a DH bike because the speed rarely gets you there not that there isn't a lack of crazy features, there are, but a smaller bike is all thats needed. To me DH is fine if you like it and /or you do lift runs.
This is purely my view on this and my be wrong to some but right to others but may be wrong to you so keep this in mind please
Also, would you ski bumpy and icy groomers all day when you could ski fresh powder? Travel is often about comfort for people and not just their ability to "go big".
For the Pros and Experts the suspension is there for more speed, traction and control, for this the shorter travel bike arguments hold true. But for vast majority of the riders below average skill & speed level, suspension is there mainly for comfort, to be able to do 4 runs in ones favourite bikepark instead of just one with smaller travel bike...
The shorter travel bike would likely be faster down relatively smooth bikepark trails, but what is the point if you are anyway dragging your brakes 70% of the way down the hill to keep the speed on ones comfort zone?
Bigger travel bike allows you to ride more runs comfortably without blowing your arms in the brakebumps, while you are still learning the whole "riding a mountain bike" stuff.
Of course, none of us pinkers admit that our skill or speed level would be "below average", but still, these riders do exist and ride bikes...
as for me, my bike fits me and the way I ride (mostly trail or enduro single with small jump or drop sometimes).
It is an "old" enduro bike, Commencal Meta AM (2015 model with 27,5 " wheels).
Everybody has his "perfect" bike. It is up to every rider.
There is not debate about it.
It doesn't matter if it is a hardtail or a big DH or somethning in between. The most important is to have fun on the bike.
The perfect situation would be to have a quiver of bike (like surfers do) but it is too expansive for me lol.
As an amateur surfer I have different boards (a foamy 6 ', a 7'2 longfish and a 41,5 " bodyboard) , but it is much less expansive sport.
So it is 27,5" enduro bike now, and the next bike would be the same (not brand but same type of bike).
Enjoy your riding anyway!
After selling my Banshee Rune three years ago... I raced a DH event (smooth trail) on my wife´s trail bike (130/150mm) and had sooo much fun on it... even got to the podium.
I actually have an old cr-mo full rigid Kona Hahanna and took it to the same trail once... and it was sooo much fun.
Here´s the video:
www.pinkbike.com/video/509188
The big rig is still more enjoyable as there’s less perceived near death moments.
I recently sold my AM bike (Transition Covert), it was a really beautiful bike and the only time I've ever bought a brand new frame and fork. I don't ride DH trails often, I just ride my bike. But it was still too much weight and travel for the stuff I ride 90% of the time.
I was lucky enough to also own a HT at the time (Evil Sovereign) with 140mm forks, this bike was lighter which was HUGELY noticeable not just on the uphills but on the flats when accelerating, I began to crave this light weight feeling when riding my Covert, but still wanted the slightly steeper head angle (68ish), low BB (13") and short chainstays.
I ended up selling the Covert and HT, then bought a Blur TRc (a Yeti ASR5 or Transition Bandit) would also have been good, now I have almost the weight of my old HT with sensible tyres, the same geo, a little bit of squish on the rear to make up for my lack of skill, I can no longer plough through the few rock gardens on my local trails, instead I have to read the trail, get every ounce of performance out of my bike and be as loose as possible to make my line smooth, this is HUGELY more rewarding and I literally could not be happier on my bike now.
THAT BEING SAID-- downhilling a hardtail *does* seem like it's harder on trails due to having to slide your rear wheel and use the rear brake more. Jinya is a great rider and I've noticed in some of his edits that the trails seem to get torn up rather much.
That being said. I did learn a lot and expanded much of my "big balls skill" riding a DH bike in areas that warrant a DH bike. And is still have a DH bike for lift access and the 1% of local trails that warrant one.
I however have learned much more from a short travel bike. How to finesse, gap sections of trail, and just better bike handling techniques all around. The smaller bikes are just so much more responsive to input and body english.
I see people on big bikes in Ashland and I think to myself how they are missing out. I know for a fact I am faster and am having more fun on the short travel bike than I ever was on a DH bike on the same trails.
However I do have a quiver of bikes from HT to DH and use the bike I feel is best suited for the trail I will be riding. But most of the time it's the TRc that comes out to play.
not the best for climbing, or descending... :s not the best for peddaling on a AM ride, not the best on a bikepark
got an extra dh bike (best thing i ever did)... got me the confidence to go bigger & faster on DH trails & bikeparks
the do-it-all bike, just lightened it up (air shocks, lighter wheels etc 2,5kgs less) and just gives me the blast while riding now the same AM trails
if this wasn´t an complexed sport, wouldn´t be so many bike choices: XC, EN, AM, FR, DH (you cant have best of all worlds in only one)
Awesome article, I agree 100% and bow to that ideology, nobidy said it better though than Lee McCormack himself: long travel is a remedy for polr technique: same could be written about
29" wheels, clipless pedals, lighteright components and many more ,even tubeless. But you are still a hater...
All the best, keep that heart burning for anserrs and let the clear mind follow
Always yours: WAKi the hater
Got a hardtail, a 4" a 6" and a 9" bike. They are all suiting, and its fun to ride the same trails on different frames. 6" bike is a XC plow, but a little tougher on hard stuff, 4" bike is fast on XC, and hardtail reminds me I suck at riding!
There's no way I could properly enjoy all the different types of riding that I enjoy, on just one bike. I think this is really the direction that this article should be pointed.
And Levy's last point was right on - all my girlfriends ride 5" trail bikes, so that's what I ride when I ride with them. If I want to take that rock drop off the side, or the little gap jump, or roll a face - guess what I'm doing it on?
Back in the day i used to ride Les Gets every single day as a a guide and general local knock about, i was lucky enough to ride with some of the Worlds fastest riders, Fabien Barel on several occasions, would only ever ride his mid travel Kona (forget the actual bike) on single crowns and would of course, absolutely punish all of us, while still having an absolute blast and making it look easy. We would all be on DH rigs, we'd be having a blast too. Point being, he didnt need a big travel bike to rip those trails, he had more fun on a short one, after all, he would have been riding by himself on a big sled! His grin and general stoke is infectious.
Here's the point, ride what you can afford, that makes you stoked to go out and ride everytime you look at the bike, never mind ride it, ride it where you want, how you want. If your determind enough to start racing and riding professionally, start worrying about what bike to ride on what track.
The article should have argued for riding unicycles before a hardtail so as to not get so dependent on two wheels.
Or maybe the fixie is what we should all learn on. Who needs brakes and a freewheel?
Penny farthing's were the shit back in the day.
Personally, I agree with a lot of what's said. I also have an AM bike and a dedicated DH rig. Nor is it lost on my that an AM bike can blitz A Line and Blue Velvet all day long an be just as fast if not faster then a DH rig. In other words, it's not lost on me that the Air DH in '12 was one on a 6" bike.
I’ve done the same thing over and over again. Lite big bikes or heavy trail bike. Same same, but different!
Not everyone has the luxury of owning multiple bikes. Every one of the hardtails-for-life crowd I have met also has a full suspension bike or three hidden in their garage. Single bike owners need to choose the bike that can handle the hairiest trail they normally ride. So someone that hits the lift access bike park 2 or 3 times a year is going to want a 170mm monster to enjoy those outings. The other 49 weeks of the year they might be perfectly fine on a 100mm XC rig. But now you can ride that modern long travel enduro monster on the local single track climb with minimal drawbacks.
A good ride for me is one where I never have to get off my bike. Most of my local trails are 95% ridable on a hard tail. They are way more enjoyable with some kind of rear suspension. I don't want to feel like I went 12 rounds with Tyson after a leisurely 2 hour ride. A little extra travel means I can glide right over the 5% of the trail drops and chunks that I'd have to walk on a short of zero travel bike.
Ride them all. They all have something to teach you
The Spire above has bailed him out a few times while learning how to drop, or jump. He's very capable yet he still has much to learn - IE "too much bike" is not limiting skill IMO.
"but the truth is that these tracks are outnumbered a hundred to one by much tamer trails."
Come to pemby on your short travel bike. You'll find steep shit with sharp rocks ready to gauge your exo tyre death. Then your suspension is going to at full usage continously which ain't good. That adds extra preasure to your frame so that cracks. I've been down this route. Pretty much buy a bike that suits where you live and choose to ride. I'm on a 150-170 sb150. It does it all.
There are plenty of trails in Pemby and where I live that I wouldn't touch on anything less than an enduro bike, of course.
I don't see people on double crowns there much anymore. Its all enduro bikes and mini enduros.
I personally like how lively and poppy my spectral 125 is there
The 160 travel bike is no less fun on the lifts, but my upper body much prefers the smoother ride.
If I could only have one MTB, the 120 would win. But I have choices, and sometimes overbiking is a fun choice - other times underbiking is a fun choice. Mostly I try to appropriately bike.
* chunky rocky tech Red / Black lines.
As a "one bike to rule them all" the Murmur at 140mm works pretty well.
(Actually - I don't get. Just pump some more PSIs into fork and damper,choose your tires wisely, and voila - your enduro goes trail ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ )
Ps. Sometimes shorter travel/hardtails just feel faster because they are less in control, but on the clock they are often slower.
My LLS bike is a dated (191 plastic wunderchild of the time. The 66° 140/160mm 'Plastic Slacker'. It's a fine ride. After a few growing pains due mostly to it's plastic frame & PF BB, it finally became a pretty dang good steed. But I never really gelled with it for the obvious reasons, all related to the whole LLS thing. I still have it & will hang onto it. There are some trails & some days when it's the best choice. But for everyday work - and even on those same trails, I opt for older machines which by today's standards are antiques.
My ratty old breathed-on 2016 68° 150mm HT is - up to about a 4-5' drop to flat - so much fun. Simple, nimble, responsive, light, all adding up to playful. It's been getting more & more play. Bringing it out earlier in the wetness & staying with it later into the dryness. It's even gone back to often being my bike of choice through the sunny & warm season.
Sasly - it's getting to be time to swap-out the frame. And I worry that all my choices will be to slacked out, to steep in the seat tube, to long in the wheelbase. So maybe time for a custom frame, eh? Or a tour thru PB to find a nice little-used example of alloy STS.
The real news is my new-to-me 2014 67° 140/150mm designer-brand 'enduro-oriented' squishy bike, which has become my daily driver. PB purchase. A bargain. Required some work to make it 'mine'. But now..., even on days where I'm making a choice between plastic & alloy squishiness - it almost always gets to revel in the day. Why? 'Cause it's more FUNNNNN!!
Like the HT, it's more nimble & responsive, which carries the day. I'm more confident on it at speed & in the air. It rails corners MUCH better than 'plastic slacker'. And changing my line is more of an instinctive intuitive joy than an (often times to late) chore of an effort. It doesn't maintain it's momentum quite as well as plastic slacker - but it's easier to get up to speed. I clean more doubles on it, and am faster from point to point.
And it's an alloy frame. Yeaaaaaa!!
Caveat, here. It's a brand with which I'm familiar, having ridden an earlier model to-ground - loving every fleeting moment. My bride has one. And I've been jealous ever since the plastic slacker came into my life. You can't imagine my giddiness when I got it twixt the laigs. Was like going home. Everything in it's place. A loving kiss on the cheek. And a warm apple pie cooling on the porch. Grandpa's well-worn old 30/30, with which you can faithfully thread a needle at 200 yards.
But hey - that's just me, right? Gotta consider when I started, skills I've acquired along the way, bikes I've ridden & loved or hated, my preferred kind of riding & style of trails, who I'm riding with, where we ride, yada. All based on decisions I've made along the way. As we all will. Whatever gives us the most punches in our fun-ticket.
If I was someone that strictly rode XC trails after work. Which is most of the stuff in New England, I would stick with a trail bike. But if someone wants to ride that same terrain + big features + steeps + bike park (not just blues and green in the park) a longer travel bike makes the most sense.
Obviously having multiple bikes in order to select the best one for the terrain would be awesome, but most people are just sticking with one bike to try and do it all.
Anyway, I suppose todays generations don't have much choice with all the new bikes have FS, even the walmart bikes with FS.
Good article, good read.
I agree with some of the points made by the author but alot of it is also opinion. I think it does boil down to where you ride and who with.
I Have only been riding 4 or 5 months, and planned to get a small HT like a 4x bike for my local trails. Somehow I ended up buying a 6 inch travel Kona coiler deluxe 2007, While I still would love to own a HT and shorter travel bike, Im glad I got the bike I did, in the short time ive been riding Ive been fortunate enough to go to uplifts at Forest of Dean and Triscombe and be able to keep up with my mates on their trail full sussers. If i had gone for a hard tail theres simply very little chance I would enjoy those sort of gnarly trails and keep up with my friends, granted it may have made me a better rider in the long run but thats not much use when my friends are riding where they are now. Im pretty chuffed I have hit some pretty decent drops, that I almost certainly wouldnt have If i had had a hardtail.. why? not because the bikes cant handle it, but because I wouldnt have been visiting some of the places I have been If I only had a small hardtail. True skill or not, I believe the ability of riding Ive developed is slightly due to riding similar bikes to what others are riding and learnign from them. But very few of them are on full DH rigs, just 5-7 inch full sussers/
As a side note, this article doesn't even begin to take into account that dh rigs are not the big heavy rock and root destroying sleds that they used to be. You only have to watch a fraction of the videos posted on pinkbike to see the number of riders ripping up and shredding trails you could ride on a hardtail in a pinch, and they don't look like they're having a bad time. They also don't look like they care what you think about their bike of choice.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdNMxriGtWE
Sorry this is so long added more in the next postAnother thing that I would never trade is the slack HT angle. In biking everyone makes mistakes and I have been saved hundreds of times from flip overs by the extra angle. I get on a xc/ all-mountain bike I feel like I'm on a unicycle constantly flirting with death. It is like choosing to not where a seatbelt or protective gear while racing a rally car. Once you are used to the extra angle it never seems be bother me and I'm always glad I had is when going DH or off jumps.
How long can people actually enjoy straight lining over rocks for?
What I hate is the - 'I can only afford 1 bike so I need it to do everything, thats why I bought a DH bike'...homie...you can't do everything. You cant even pedal that think up a local trail.
a 6-7" AM/FR bike is your answer if you want to do everything. I took my Demo, and Enduro up toi Whistler this last summer. Demo was great fro Garbo laps of course...but the Enduro did WAAAAY better on the lower mountain.
Way more fun, more agile, etc.
If you can afford 1 bike...get one that can really do it all instead of just claiming it..and as this article points out...you are not actually good enough 'to do everything' anyway.
180mm Totem up front
150mm travel out back
Pops and plows in one bike. Riding is a lot more fun for me on this bike vs. my 09 Enduro SL.
The only thing for me to say then is: siiiiiick!
That said, I want a All-Mountain hardtail really bad, partly to freshen up on my skills and because even a 5" trail bike is too much for the trails around where I go to school..
Edit: Tracy Hannah*
Thredbo was painful, to say the least. Of a whole days riding (and it is a lift access trail) I only managed three runs before I was so battered I couldn't hold on anymore. For $70 for a days riding, and a two hour drive, that was pretty disappointing to say the least. Before you ask, Thredbo is a trail I am very familiar with having ridden it a number of times over the past few years on a 7" bike set up for DH with Push'd suspension. At Shepparton, after riding the trail once, successfully, I had to be helped down by hikers on my second go, and was taken to hospital with a suspected broken hip. I have never been hit by ground so brutally hard. At a race meet several months beforehand, a good friend broke the linkage on his Balfa riding the same trail. In conclusion, yes, it is possible to ride DH on a 6" bike in Austraila. But are you going to be having fun? Probably not, so why do it? I for one am not going to be a martyr for the sake of proving a point.
And to your point about our elevation, when was the last time you rode an 8km long downhill trail? We have plenty of steep, rocky and rutted, slippery gravel 'gnarly' trails which won't hesitate to remind you of your mortality.
And I have never dropped 8k before but I have spent some significant time riding Downievill which is 4500' of climbing and ~5100' of descent.. Plus some epic descents up in BC as well.. And then ridden NorthStar on the same bike a few days later for lift access.. Its was not ideal for either, but it did pretty damn well at both.. Out of all the west coast riding I have done, I have yet to find something that I wouldnt ride on my AM bike..
My point was that If I was going on a road trip and I didnt know what all I was going to be riding, I would only take my 6" bike (and the DJ) and I would probably not have many regrets in only bringing that one bike..
I appreciate what you're trying to say, which although as a standalone comment is completely valid, in this application it's not entirely hitting the point. Circes original comment about a 6" bike being the "quiver killer" is fair. Your additional comment that a "solid rider can do anything on a 6" bike" is what I was addressing. Yes it is possible, but so is inserting any number of things in your rectum. Let's not forget the whole reason we are talking about this: Because Mike Levy has a bee in his bonnet about people having a good time on a DH bike. I don't know how thoroughly you guys read this article, but he classifies 6" bikes with "big" bikes and draws the line at 5 inch bikes. The very fact that we're at odds over what a 6 inch bike is capable of just goes to illustrate that Levy is out of his tree and needs a nap and a good strong cup of tea.
I say lets all go out and ride what ever bike we have and enjoy it.. that is what its all about anyways..
"I say lets all go out and ride what ever bike we have and enjoy it.. that is what its all about anyways.."
This is the point I was trying to make albeit in a roundabout kind of way. I'm just so pissed about this article because it's so completely unnecessary and incomplete.
I really didn't mean to come off as attacking you.
My view tho is that if you wanna learn to dh you should buy a 8"+ full, cause it works both ways, shreding a trail for the 1st time on a hardtail will be as bad as tailwhippin a dh in the bmx park.
And about the skill part, i think there are different skills involved, if you push urself and your dh bike, you won't do the best endo like you won't learn to ski much, but you will develop some dh skills.
BRING IT!!!
We are all different types here. Mike Levy, you must be a XC/ AM guy. 99.9% of the time that I have the most fun on my bike, I'm riding it really fast. The faster the funner for me. Each to their own.
Why would someone buy a bike for only their local terrain?! Anybody that is really enjoys the sport will travel and ride in all different situations. I ride legit DH way less than I would like, but I only have a DH bike right now. Why? Because the funnest riding to me is legit DH and in less I have the right tool for the riding I love the most, than I'm not happy. I started out riding XC bikes, and broke everything on them right away. Current AM bikes can handle a lot more than they use to. My local trails love a stumpjumper evo, I'll get one when I can afford one, until then I'll be blowing by people on my DH bike.
Question: Hey do you want to go to Whistler for week?
Response: No I only have a short travel bike so I would have to rent and that is too expensive.
this video say it all, so go grow a pair and ride what you like
www.leelikesbikes.com/big-suspension-and-big-sine-waves.html
Oh wait, it's preference.
*laughs in Mont-Saint-Anne*
A remedy with a coil shock is the future!
You make some fair points here and there but it should be intended as recommendations to better handing skills and not a mantra. Water seeks its own level here and while learning good skills from the start or anytime during ones ride life, bike riding should be left free of people saying 'you should do this to be a better rider' leave em' alone if they want to be a better rider they'll figure it out one way or another. I hate to see this opinion spreading in a way that empowers many that agree with this mantra to be self righteous to others on the trail. That would suck ! Stay out of people's faces that are just trying to have fun.
Rant over !
hard tale = hardtail
knarley - gnarly
Punctuation!
All my mates ride am squishers and none of them (well maybe one if he's having a good day) keeps up with my 120mm HT.
Note, I am currently with broken shoulder and to the best of my knowledge my chums are riding.....