Trails are a contentious subject. Some trails are public, legal, and regularly maintained by an official agency. Some trails are uber private, illegal, secret-unicorn-societies where you have to know the password and secret handshake to get in. Most trails, however, land somewhere in the middle, and that often creates an uncertainty and a tension between trail builders and riders. A lot times it seems like trail builders think they own the trails they build and they think their word is law. Not surprisingly, this rubs a lot of people the wrong way. Most riders want to see trails open to everyone, and so a lot of people won't listen to an obstinent trail builder who's trying to control who rides the trail when and how. Between trail builders and riders, who's right? And who "owns" the trail?
![photo]()
My two cents is this: if you're riding on anything less than a fully legitimate public trail, you don't have to do anything that a trail builder or local trail boss tells you to do. Within the bounds of the law, you can do whatever you want on "their" trail. You don't have to listen to them. You don't even have to respect them.
But wouldn't it be cool if you did anyway? Wouldn't it be better if you listened to and respected the wishes of trail builders, even when their demands seem completely ridiculous, even when it means missing out on that ride or that jump or that sweet photo? If that sounds completely crazy, read on and I'll explain why I think you should give a little more patience, deference, and respect to your local trail builders, even if they're grumpy and confusing and weird and mean.
![sweet photos by Tim Zimmerman]()
One of my favorite trails of all time, one of the trails in Scappoose, Oregon, is illegal. The trail is short, but it’s mega-technical, unrelenting, and fun as hell. It was originally built without permission on private land, it was open for three or four years, and after a multi-year negotiation with the landowners that ultimately proved fruitless, it’s now illegal. Sheriffs patrol the road that parallels the trail, and they give out hefty tickets to riders caught trespassing. It’s a bummer, but it’s a pretty standard storyline for the trails where I live.
It's almost impossible to get approval for any sort of mountain bike trail anywhere near Portland, and asking to legally build a downhill specific trail might as well be a joke - just ask the guys that have spent three years in court trying to get approval to build the Timberline bike park. Out of the twenty downhill trails near Portland, only two were built legally and with permission from the land owner. Every other trail, whether on private land or public, was built without permission. There have been success stories, of course. Blackrock Freeride area has become a big success, as has the Cold Creek recreational area in nearby SW Washington. The trail in Riverview Natural Area has the potential to be the first legal downhill trail in the city of Portland. Still, each of those trails was originally built without permission. Out of a quick tally of 20 downhill trails in the Portland area, only four are currently legal. Eight other trails have been plowed, and eight remain in a tenuous semi-secret/semi-public status.
![2012 NWCUP 4 - photo by Greg Tubbs Grubworks Media. More NWCUP photos at http grubworks.smugmug.com]()
Mount Hood Skibowl has been running races down this course for close to 15 years, but even this trail has a shaky past and an uncertain future. Photo by Grub Tubbs.
New downhill trails are not welcome here in this part of the Northwest, and that fact fundamentally affects our local trail culture. A lot of trails are built in secret and ridden by small, exclusive groups on an invite-only basis. Shit hits the fan when unknown riders show up, especially when it’s a whole truck full of people. Oregon isn't unique in this secret trail culture, either. I've seen it in Bellingham, Whistler, San Luis Obispo, SoCal, and Colorado, to name a few. It happens in BMX trail culture, in surfing, and in snowboarding. It’s a pretty common phenomenon.
And a lot of people just don't get it. Especially to new riders, the whole thing seems unnecessary, unwelcoming, and elitist. And I'll admit, the "secret trail culture" thing can get a little out of hand, and there's probably room on both sides of the aisle for a little more "understanding" and olive branches and crap like that. And there's probably a good discussion to be had in all this: do we really need to be so secretive about our trails? Is this what we want mountain biking to be? What would Jesus or Slayer or the Fonz do? But that's not the discussion that happens. Here is every "discussion" I've ever had or ever witnessed between trail builders and random riders:
You politely (or not) ask someone to park far away from the trailhead, or talk quietly near the houses, or don't invite random people, or don't shoot photos or post a helmet cam video of the trail on Facebook, or whatever. They absolutely lose it and start arguing about "freedom of speech" this and "public land" that and probably they're even going to cite the Magna Carta or the Geneva Convention in their impassioned defense of why they can do whatever they want on a trail someone else built. Maybe they'll cite their years of experience as a lawyer or hostage negotiator or amateur frame builder, or how they used to race pro back in the day. But after everything else is said and done, every one of these discussions always ends on this doozie:
"It’s not your land, so it’s not your trail. You can’t tell me what to do.""You're not the boss of me, bro." To which I typically respond:
Here are the top five things you completely overlooked when you said "It's not your land, you can't tell me what to do:"1. You're right, but what you're arguing isn't important at all. You're 100% correct when you say that "it's not your land, so it's not your trail." The trail builder and other trail users probably cannot claim ownership of the trail, and they probably have no legal authority.
But that information, while true, is also useless and non-prescriptive. Saying "it's not your land, so it's not your trail" is the moral equivalent of playing "I'm not touching you" with your older brother on family road trips. What this person is literally suggesting is that because a trail builder doesn't legally own the trail, somehow that gives everyone the moral justification to do whatever they want on the trail, with impunity. And again, legally that may be true, but the thing you missed in your massive oversimplification is that:
2. You probably still want someone to be the trail boss. Or you should. Having a grumpy trail boss sucks, but the only thing worse is having no trail boss at all. Without a trail boss, one of two things will happen: either there will be no maintenance and future building, or all maintenance and building will be patchwork, random, and inconsistent.
We’ve all ridden trails that were built by committee, and they’re horrible. Having lots of people that are willing to help with a trail is great, but not if they can’t agree to a common vision or won’t let one guy run the show. Some sections will end up being sweet, but most sections will be horrible. In the end some sections drain badly, others are awkward and slow, rocks get removed in one section, but in another section they’re piled up to make “a new rock garden,” and the whole trail ends up feeling like trail building decisions were made by throwing darts at a wall of bad options. And there will almost certainly be ladder bridges.
Even worse are trails where the trail builder abandons the trail, and nobody maintains it. Puddles get wider, ruts get deeper, berms get more blown out, and jumps collapse. Yeah, it sucks, but it doesn’t suck enough for any one person to step up and fix it alone. So no one fixes it, and it keeps sucking. Somehow random ladder bridges seem to show up in this scenario, as well. Come to think of it, I'm starting to think ladder bridges just grow on trails naturally, like weeds.
![and the mega ruts]()
Maintenance is important. Before this trail at Scappoose was fully closed down, there was a weird interim period where we were allowed to ride but not allowed to maintain it. Death mud and mega-ruts developed almost overnight.
In short, you need a trail boss.
3. You’re probably not a good candidate for the position of “trail boss.” I’m not sure, but the fact that we’re arguing about this leads me to believe that either
A) you’re relatively new to this game, and you’ve never built a trail, or
B) you’ve been riding for, like, 40 years, but for whatever reason life has made you super bitter and you live to argue with people like trail builders. About everything. You tell everyone about how long you’ve been riding and how you’ve “earned your miles” and how you used to travel with Palmer back in '99, but in all those years you never actually built a trail. Sure, you leaned on a shovel for three hours at a trail day four years ago, but that’s not exactly what we’re looking for.
Either way, if we were interviewing for the position of “trail boss,” you probably wouldn’t make the cut. The person that's currently in the lead for that position is the guy who actually built the trail. Here’s a quick look at the score board, as far as I can tell. Let me know if I left anything out:
Here's another graphic that I think is telling:
In the end, someone is going to be the trail boss, and you’re probably not going to be that guy.4. This means someone else will be making the rules. And **spoiler alert** you’re probably not going to agree with everything that guy says or does. Even if you have the best, nicest trail builder in the world, some of the decisions he makes will probably drive you crazy. There will be lines you don’t like or sections that are too hard or rules that seem arbitrary, and what's even crazier is that you might even be right from time to time. If you have an open, receptive trail builder, he might listen to and incorporate your input. If he doesn’t, though, that’s just part of the deal. If you're having trouble swallowing this hard pill, please remember item #2: "You probably still want someone to be the trail boss."
There are so many other places to build. No trail is the end all, be all of mountain biking.5. If you still can’t handle your grumpy local trail builder, good news! You can build your own trail and enforce your own rules. Really, if the rules at this trail spot don’t agree with you, you can build your own illegal trail spot at any time, and then you can institute your own rules. Or if you think rules are bad, you can build your own illegal trail spot and have no rules, and anyone can ride or build anything all the time. Or if you think illegal trail spots are bad, you can not build your own spot, and not come back to this one. There are a host of reasonable options open to you, and there's nothing forcing you to deal with any one trail spot or builder.
Of course, these are just my opinions, and they do not reflect the official stance of Pinkbike. Trail building is a serious issue for mountain biking, but I think it's widely misunderstood by the public and by mountain bikers. It seems like a lot of people think trails magically appear when the trail fairy comes to town, and as long as that attitude persists, it makes it almost impossible to have a meaningful dialogue about this stuff. The truth is that real people spent weeks, months, or years building every trail you ride, and I think those people deserve your respect and deference when you ride. Figuring out "whose" trail it is. well, that's sort of the least important part of the whole equation.
-Charlie Sponsel
All photos that aren't from Dumb and Dumber or Skibowl were taken by the talented and ruggedly handsome Tim Zimmerman.
I spend weeks building tracks only for some little pricks to decide they don't like a certain section or jump so they smash it up and make it so they can ride it easily.
Fcuk off and make your own tracks ! and to be fair these types want such easy tracks and turn up in quite large groups that they could easily build what takes me weeks in a few days.
I know full well I don't own the trails but I sure as hell did dig them by my self for other peoples pleasure , I'm totally happy with people riding my stuff , that is exactly why I built it , but when they start taking lips off jumps , digging out root sections and cutting out off cambers that is when I get really pissy...
PS: Is pink bike actually encouraging illegal trail building ?
The big question is what to do. You could probably build a small house with all the books written about this which hasn't stopped people being dicks to each other..
if the landowner wasnt problematic
and the cops werent fining everyone.. (they have a choice !)
and your local council was bike friendly (and not fat bastards)
this discussion wouldn't be this heated up..
trailbuilders would stop taking xanax to keep the nerves down of being caught or trails destroyed
there will always be dicks around.. but hey blame it on diversity
seconds :
the trail ruiners..(dicks) skidding with no need, riding off trail/track and so on..
even in bike parks.. now those piss me off
your NOT drifting if you're blocking your rear wheel...
but TBH here in holland isnt much trail to be build.. no mountains and barely hills..
BUT if i read all this above.. i am happy to be a 80% street rider from time to time..
I love to see anyone and everyone riding and participating in the construction of Crikey Creek "my trail". Anyone who builds a trail, for them and their close friends to ride needs to take a serious look in the mirror. Building a trail does not give you any power or authority. relax your shit and learn to share your creation with others. It's the law we should be fighting, not our fellow riders!
As for the rules, as ridiculous as some of them may seem (particularly to newer riders) most of them are in place due to lessons learned from past experiences. Things like parking away from the trail head, carrying your bike at the entrance and exit, no loitering at the exit, etc. In the past builders weren't as worried about this sort of stuff and guess what? Trails started getting shut down right and left. A little bit of effort by those enjoying the fruits of the trail builder's labor can go a long way toward prolonging the life of a trail. It's things like complaints from neighbors (parking, litter, loud music...) and excessive shuttle runs that tend to be the driving force behind zones getting shut down. Now if you're blessed enough to have fully legal trails than the whole scene is totally different. But for now most of us have to deal with the fact that most trails are technically illegal and it takes the effort of all who ride and/or dig on them to keep them around as long as possible.
This is insulting to trail builders everywhere. No one on this earth has any more time than anyone else. Thanks for moving a branch out of the way with your folding saw. I'm glad you consider that 'doing your part'.
Oh really?!!! Wow. Yeah, many people have more time than others and if anyone thinks otherwise are fooling themselves. I use to spend all my time off building trails. Now, my life is completely different and I am hardly ever able to make time to dig. People have families, relationships, work, no work, no significant other, no family, etc. Has nothing to do with the US welfare system, for once actually. Has nothing to do with entitlements.
Yes, I am out there building because I want more trails. If you are out there riding these trails then you, too, want more trails. If every rider did their part imagine how many more trails there would be.
1. Nobody outside our neighborhood knows about it. There's literally zero traffic on any given spring or fall day (it's lousy in the summer- mosquitoes, ATV/dirt bikers with beer who think mountain bikers are gay and all sorts of carnivorous wildlife all make for fun/borderline dangerous misadventures), and the network is so vast that I've accumulated days worth of riding in this place and still haven't explored everything it has to offer- I still very easily get lost back there.
2. Everybody who rides cleans up after themselves. There's no trash anywhere on the trail, no tracks left over from motor vehicles, and nobody is allowed back there when it's storming or rainy. I've even seen the occasional horseback rider out there, but never any evidence left over afterward.
3. The trail is privately owned and rider-maintained. Trail-blazing and any major building is not only against the rules, but entirely unnecessary. Though the trail owner/builder is somewhat gruff (he's made it clear that if he feels his trails are being abused, he'll fence it up and cite anybody he finds on them), he has also put his effort into both making the trail ride amazingly well for the typical rider and made this worthwhile for everybody. That has garnered enough respect from the riders that we are willing to follow his rules and help out where he needs us to.
As much as I love this trail and I wish I could share it with you all, let's face it. It's in the middle of nowhere in the New England area, and too much traffic will get it locked up with big, black "No Trespassing" signs barring the trail entrances.
The problem we run into is people deciding to ride the trails when they're closed, building rogue trail features, and trail poaching. As Steward ("Trail Boss") of one particular trail system for our local club, it can get very frustrating to deal with these issues over and over again so I can align myself with the Trail Boss attitude. The difficult part is not having any authority to enforce rules since the trails are public land.
The real resolution is to put the liability for dangerous activities on the person doing them. No land owner should get sued by a biker who gets hurt ever, unless there was malicious intent. Freedom from liability would open up so many forests to riding.
Unused public land is another story. A nearby park is beyond the abilities of the local government to maintain. The parks service guy caught me with a shovel and I said I was making a hiking trail and he pretty much patted me on the back. Said he was glad the community was doing something since the park service lacked the resources. And that is how I see it. The local government is unaware of the need and refuses to listen to the community when we try to clue them in, so sometimes we just need to take up our shovels and do something about it. When we do, suddenly there are hikers and cyclists and horse back riders getting out and having a good time on the shared resource they couldn't use before. This is the only way I've ever had success getting anything done with a local government
I always find it disheartening when you only see like 10 people show up on maintenance days when you know like at least 500-1000 people riding the trail. Even worse is when you know biking clubs and the shops around here usually don't participate even though they'd be out of business if there would be no trails to ride.
I can understand why some trailbuilders are pissed and I think it's often legitimate but I don't believe acting like a dickhead will help their cause, quite the contrary.
We's all friends in this game aren't we?
At the end of the day, these are the people you are going to ride with, share a few beers and try to rip their legs off.
So why fight them? Enjoy with them!
look i'm not saying that the things people spend money and hours on don't have value and shouldn't be protected, but we are all borrowing everything we use to support our addiction. for me this is an issue of a few groups of people with misaligned expectations of what mountain biking is about. we know how builders that ride feel, and how riders that build feel, and even riders that don't build feel. but for me, i'm happy to ride whatever is in front of me at the time knowing (either because i've been invited or all are invited) that nobody else really cares what i do when i'm on my bike. most of the time that means tooling around on public stuff, because thats just my style, but where ever i am i keep in mind that i'm there as a guest, and whoever is responsible for upkeep REALLY is too.
@ dfiler: mad respect for your insight.
Continuous improvement of trails is what gets you out the door on a cold winters night, night ride.... no night build.
Anyone can ride the trails I build, that is what they are there for.
The things that frustrate me are;
The straight line riders... if you cant ride a section dont just ride straight on, I wont block it as I like trails to look as natural as possible.
Rubbish... There are bins at many trails I build
I cant ride that jump so I have the right to take it down... if you cant ride the jump on the big line, ride the akternative line, dont just take the jump out.
Trail building is about creating art that rides as well as looking good.
My latest video on here has some of my trails on it, I have ace pals who listen and help implement my ideas which often sound mad to start with. Thanks guys for all your help building, it is always fun.
1. I like being outside.
2. I like making things with my hands.
3. I like the aesthetic of a well built trail.
4. I enjoy the entire challenge: The vision. The debate. The direction. The modification. The construction. The debate.
5. It pleases me to make something from nothing.
6. I enjoy making something that will get someone stoked. Be it the top 1% or the bottom 1% of riders.
7. I enjoy the time with the homies in the woods, being all neanderthal and primitive.
Trail building can be frustrating, but that's part of #4, and the challenge is always welcome.
But what can ruin it for me, is the vague population of non-builders who are targeted in this article, and in the poll.
There are people who feel entitled to fruit without labor. A fresh line, without moving a shovel. A maintained line, with no maintenance workers getting in their way. I wish I could ride more, but, the truth is, I build more every year than I ride...so I see a lot more from one lens than I do from another.
I am always happy to build a trail, maintain a trail, rebuild a stunt, or create a better experience on a current line, but all I ask, is a simple 'thanks'. After hundreds, even thousands of dollars, and thousands of hours or work....that is all it costs to ride what we build. We don't expect people to drop their bikes and pick up a shovel. We just expect that they don't ride OVER our shovels, swear at us because we slowed down their run, or complain that we've closed off a section of trail.
Slow down when you see trail builders. Say thank you. Say 'good job'. Say 'have a nice day'.
There's a reason Mom and Dad spent all that time teaching you to do that. Here's where you apply it.
I'm not knocking the US just calling it how I see it, for such a open place there is a kind of 'you ain't from roun here are ya boy?' And 'we're not from round here so who gives a f*ck' ' attitude, if it could be gotten rid and there were a bit more consideration and respect from all sides for the others, then every body would benefit.
And if anyone is ever in France look me up and we'll hit some of the local trails.
I have no idea why you felt the need to speak of this brotherhood of commonality of interests. Anyone who's ever done a shred of work in advocacy knows that is just one side of the coin. We are our own worst enemy and no amount of your preaching can change this reality
I said typically american because I have rarely if ever encountered that locals only attitude in other parts of the world and who gives a shit about advocacy ? i'm speaking from experience, something in which tou are sadly lacking.
And if it had been said to get a reaction I couldn't have hoped for better than yours.
Anyway enough of this silliness, I wish you all the best.
Sadly, I can identify with lot of things in it... We've got loads of (young) riders in my hometown that think the local trails are just something made by invisible and selfless forest-dwarfs. So they do whatever they want. And all we get from those riders are blown out berms and litter everywhere.
And If you gather with few friends to fix the trail, the next day it's full of guys that probably have never had a shovel in their hands but are more than happy to ride the shit out of your work.
So this year I decided to move to the other part of forest to build my "top-secret" trails...
And I don't mind people from different towns that occasionally come and ride my local trails. But guys who ride every week on trail but never dig or fix anything piss me off.
My two cents are give builders a high five and ride the lines. If you wreck something then fix it. If you want to make an effort and put some time in building then build your own small section or give the builders a hand but do not alter the current trail to your liking.
Happy trails folks
Eventually, everyone is going to get caught. The only way you can keep the gig going is to be civilized (and legal).
commercial ruin of every aspect of mountain biking will result in it eating its own arse. some things need to stay "underground" for good reason. commercialization and over exposure ruins mostly every decent and interesting scene, as has been proven over time
mountain bikers are no different to any other mass demographic - once it gets so big with so much exposure (e.g. a trail) you reach a point where abuse and ignorance starts to destroy e.g. garbage, excessive wear, inability to maintain trail, unwarranted changes and dumbing down to cater for the masses, harassment of neighbouring residents or negative impact on local natural resource operators who are the primary access to these trail areas (in North Anerica)
I see the issue around trails different than the "locals only" nature of surfing because surfers usually don't do anything to create their surfspot - other than finding it first. Mother nature does all of the work for surfers. Whereas, the experience of mountain biking is only as good as the trail your riding and the friends you're with. Good trails don't build themselves and poorly built trails don't get ridden often. A well-routed and built trail probably took a small crew 1-3 years to get it "done" (quotes because no trail is ever really done). I don't think a lot of riders can even grasp what that amount of effort is like and how much sweat, blood, passion, bushwhacking, arguments, hypothermia, and sore backs go into that process.
Folks posting from other parts of the world likely haven't had their trails shut down...something that happens regularly in the U.S. and THAT is a large reason for the implied secrecy and why trailbuilders tend to get grumpy. While that's always the risk someone takes when they build unauthorized trail (I despise the word illegal), the reality is that when a spot blows up with more riders, it brings a lot more attention and, many times, the land manager chooses one course of action. Closure. If you've had this happen with your own work, you understand everything I've said above.
There are so many more trails out there than most people are aware of. If you're known for going around poaching trails, then all you will ride are the ones that you happen to find. But, if you're putting forth an effort to improve your local scene, the doors will open for a multitude of riding opportunities that you would never have been aware of before. Trail builders don't build on every single trail they ride. But what they do is contribute to the overall scene increasing the trail network foot by foot. Charlie hit the nail on the head with the last line of this article "Figuring out "whose" trail it is. well, that's sort of the least important part of the whole equation." The important thing is that you appreciate what has been built for you. Along with that appreciation naturally should flow the proper respect of the builder's wishes so the trail can be enjoyed by many for years to come.
But between us, if you ride and never dig then you are a bad person. A really bad person...
you can ride the trail as long as you dont destroy it, take your rubbish home with you and if ask to help with building/maintaining you could give a hand or at leat buy four cans of beer as a gratitude
For my local trails I help out once a month and don't care who rides them so long as they respect the trails and the environment.
At my place I've been building a pump track at the bottom of our garden, it's a heap of work and that will be: no dig, no beer, no ride.
To name but a few trails that have suffered a demise because people are more willing to ride than they are to maintain:
-Yeah Boy
-Up Your Bum
-BKS
-Hattok
Next time you're out here maybe find out who actually spent hours up hours bilding these trails and offer to give them a hand...
It's weird we're about an hour from Morzine and have had none of these problems on the trails we've got together and we have a lot of people using them..
1) Rude riders that see you building and either just ride by without even a wave or, and this has actually happened, yell at you to get out of the way.
2) Riders that dumb down trails because they can't ride them.
It's my trail, but I don't actually own it. I build "my" trail for everyone else to ride just as much as for me and my buddies. I don't expect beer, help or anything else. Just don't be a douche and don't steal my tools! F**k, I hate that.
What I do try to do is treat the trail with respect and do my best to avoid damaging it, and when I do meet up with someone I do ask if they built it. One day I hope to meet the builders and offer my help. It is not something I would do without them as I have zero building experience and to mess up what they had achieved with some crappy half-soaked repairs might be even worse for them...
The other thing is that everyone has different time constraints. A full time job and family makes it difficult to ride with any regularity as I live some distance from the trails here. If I were to go and build I would not get to go and ride.
I can fully understand why some people would be angry at me, but perhaps we should be looking at ways in which those who cannot directly build can otherwise assist, perhaps financially or with beer? Again, when the trail bosses are secretive it is difficult.
I wish more people would adopt your attitude.....
Rules for riding other people's trails are as follows (feel free to add more!):
1) If you have to put it on Strava (or anything else) make it private so nobody else can 'see' it.
2) Don't advertise the location of the trails by cycling into that hidden trail head as a massive group goes past. Be subtle.
3) Try and find out who built it and, if you are lucky enough to actually meet them, offer to help.
4) If you know the trail is so wet that riding it will turn the whole thing to sludge don't ride it.
5) Don't be a dick.
I say this to give folks that ride, though don't build, a small idea of the time commitment we builders put in. And for every hour I build, that's an hour I'm not riding. Not complaining there, cuz building's more like life-size sculpture that stokes everyone out. And we're so incredibly fortunate here to have a great scene with tons of support from the local town and land trust, as well as riders and hikers.
But to get back to that 10'/hour. Think about what fraction of a second it takes to ride 10' at speed. Yeah. Not much. As a builder I expect riders to respect the track. Though more than that I want them to show up for a trail day and put some sweat in. Like me they might just learn that building is as much fun as riding...
As a long time rider, with very little time to ride (work, wife, kids, actually having interests beyond biking...) if I find an hour or two to myself, I need the escape of getting on my bike. (That may not be enough time to break out the shovel and hike to that trail) If I stumble accross your secret stash of dirt-n-bumps, I might even ride on it, but it doesn't mean that I don't appreciate the sweat and love a builder put into it.
Most of the trails I ride, legal or not, were cut by hikers, not mountainbikers... and have been here before there ws such a thing as a mountain bike. That's a whole other (but kinda similar) battle, and the wild growth of ladder bridges on those trails doesn't calm that fight at all.
I'd say this is a respect and be respected situation. dont go around thrashing berms and changing or damaging features. ride it and respect it. if you break it, fix it. if you find debris on your ride, remove it.
long live the trail!
If someone is trashing a trail, feel free to say "hey don't do that, don't hit that jump, don't braid the trail, etc." (something you don't need to be a 'trail boss" to do). All too often these "bosses" simply show up and just tell others to get out because they're being selfish, and letting their ego do the talking, not because the rider is doing anything wrong or hurting the trails.
Also, the article is written from a completely one sided view...You could have thrown in a little bit from the opposing point, to address it, at the very least. This piece isn't a discussion so much as it is a "respect the people who built the trail regardless of how they act".
The message should have been:
For riders: Don't hurt trails you don't contribute to (disassemble jumps, change lines etc), try to be discreet when you're doing something that isn't legal (leave no trace... don't litter, don't be noisey, don't leave beer cans), be discerning about who you ride with (don't bring go-pro hero buddy). Finally, thank the trail builder if you run into them, buy a beer for them later, and offer to help out sometime.
For builders: You put the work in, so you do deserve respect, and props. However, being a jerk to fellow riders will never gain you respect. Try to be accepting of rookies. Don't assume every rider on your trail is the 1 guy that keeps hurting it, chances are, they're not. Extend a chance for riders to help you... Instead of "get out, this is mine" say "hey, come back Thursday and help me smooth out a line".
Both sides, just be cool.
So here is what I believe; If I'm riding on public land and happen across a really nice trail, I'm going to ride it. If the builder is there and accuses me that I am going to mess it up and just leave then we have a problem, and he will have a big one if he's one of those guys that's dumb enough to get in my face over it. I respect what other people do to make riding better, especially hard work. Also you're an idiot if you think other people are not going to ride it specially on public land. It's to bad not everyone is going to respect it, I do.
Being on private land is another story. I'm in north ID so that ask first thing is really big here. So same scenario as before but I'll ask "Did you ask to be here and for permission to build that trail?" If the answer is yes then cool I'll do my thing somewhere else or ask if I can help. If the answer is no then, "well too bad I did, lets go talk to the land owner and see what he has to say about you building shit on his land without permission".
However it is about respect too- ask yourself- how many trails have I built in my life and is that (potentially) significant experience is enough to alter someone else's?
And just ride guys- have fun. That is all. Hence I am in the middle- no hate towards anyone but no love towards haters tho.
A short drive away is a place called Hamsterley. They have exactly the same set up as Whinlatter with the exception of a corner of it that's leased and run by Craig at Descend Hamsterley. Craigs trails are burley and are guaranteed to give that sensation of "Stoke". They're well maintained (year round) and there's even events/races held up there. Guess what? That sh*t's not free. It's good, it's well looked after, the trail boss (Craig) is a legend, he has to pay to rent the land (and build and maintain it) and I don't know anyone who's ridden there who doesn't think the prices he charges aren't fair.
I really appreciate the hours of work the guys and girls put into the dirt and think that it is only right that the trails be respected weather they are commitie, illegal or FC trails.
The trail builder should certainly be the " boss " and it is only right that they should be aware of you intention to ride and we should respect there rules as they are usually there for the sake of the trail and our riding pleasure.
I would be more than willing to earn my right on a trail with shovel and in future build my own trails.
1)Go out and buy some land (that way everything's legal and won't get destroyed). 2) Build your awesome trails. 3)Employ a year round maintenance / build crew so they stay awesome. 4) Even though you've spent (and will continue to spend ) a sh*t load of money advertise your trails nationwide so they're not secret in any way and invite everyone to come and ride for free.
If you're not able to follow those 4 simple steps it's probably because you're living in the real world. As such, I would suggest that people would benefit from adopting a real world attitude.
And why do people insist on dragging pallets out "build" with ffs...
I don't mind if people on MOUNTAIN BIKES or on FOOT pass on our property if they respect our privacy. I plan on rerouting the trail and build a couple of cool features to keep riders happy and keep them off our backyard but there will always be idiots who can't respect what's not theirs and I can foresee the problems arising.
We are unsure how to deal with this, me and my wife both ride and bought this property because of it's access to trails but we don't want riders to think it's their right to do what they want on our land... All we ask for is respect in the end!
BUT
When the trail is illegal, a certain sense of practicality is not only legally necessary, I'd think it would also be very beneficial and helpful to the artist as well. Like the pain of a graffiti writer seeing their tags obliterated or altered, the pain and (warranted) indignation of a builder seeing their trails altered and destroyed has to be taken into perspective. When you build on land that is not yours, you do not have any control over its use. You never will, and if you go into the whole process with that in mind, knowing that your labor may eventually be perverted or destroyed, you can see the ephemerality of your art form as a natural and even (possibly) valuable part of your work.
Remember there was something there before you built your trail, and it was beautiful too. And know that even if you didn't see them, there were people there before you who liked it quite well before you did your masterpiece, and quite possibly liked it better that way.
You can paint the world's greatest painting on the side of your own van, but if you paint it on your neighbor's van without asking him, don't be surprised if he doesn't see the beauty of it!
My Norwegian friend can't wrap his head around the myriad regulations we have here on "public" land. That being said, here in the US land is always owned by someone. And it is especially NOT owned by some outlaw mountain biker with a shovel and a bunch of free time to "carve gnar," as much as I wish that were true.
Time to break in the "add to favourites" feature! Thanks for the great points presented in a hilarious way. I would imagine arguing with this writer would be like going up against this guy:
www.27bslash6.com
6. The builder can close the trail permanently. And if you can't find even a little bit of respect for a builder, its pretty unlikely that you'll have the discipline to re-build it.
The land owner owns the trail. Crown land is everyone's land (legal trail or not).
And also to all you riders who don't grab a shovel and pitch in on trial building or help Maintenance. Just do it pitch in at your local trails see how much more respect you get from other riders
But in the end the few of us that build want people to enjoy them and we hope we made the most bitching trails
But if its public land it's county or private land so the city most of time owns land
I should be around Mulhouse in June I'll look you up so I can ride your trail and I'll bring a shovel and beer.
This article isn't implying that anyone builds one hundred percent by themselves. If they did, they would have no one to blame but themselves for letting word get out.
I'm building 2 trails. I want people to ride them. One will be the area's only real DH trail and it is illegal. I want people to enjoy it. What I don't want is for people to build garabage on it. If they want a new jump the can work something out with me.
Great article.
tl;dr
NO DIG NO RIDE FTW but do not be a douche and respect other's work too!
I hate to say it but trailbuilders really need to put their efforts into building legal trails, it is a much harder route to go but if we want mountain biking opportunities 10 years from now legal trails will be the only way. The Cold Creek area that Charlie wrote about took 8 years to come to fruition!! lots of banging heads against the wall but now we are riding one of the best DH trails in Washington and hopefully they will let us build more. This trail will hopefully be here in some form for the next 50 years if bikers don't blow it!
People that are all about money? You think the type of people who are out in the woods multiple days a week building trails for everyone to enjoy wouldn't enjoy a little kickback? If you have this much time on your hands, you aren't exactly rolling in the dough. Tools are expensive. And the time these guys are spending digging could be spent riding. Trail building is one of the most satisfying ways to spend one's time, but these type of comments make it seem even more under-appreciated than it already is.
@Vic- where did you get your statistic from? I would guess that 90% of trails around here were originally bike trails. You even used a bike-specific trail as a reference. Hiking trails are fun to ride, for sure, but the industry would still be stuck in the 1990's if it weren't for progressive bike trails, like the one you mentioned. If you don't think trails drive the bike industry forward, tell me exactly where the industry would be without them.
Cold creek has 1 bike specific trail that is 3 miles long, the other 20 miles of trail are either hiking trails or logging roads! I bet even in Bellingham it is the same.
Oakridge Oregon which has some amazing trails to ride, NOT ONE TRAIL was made by or for bikes!!! NOT ONE! Now IMBA is working to make bike specific trails but that is in the works.
It is a fact that there are more trails that were not built by bikers then there are. Some logging and hiking trails are over 100 years old and mountain bikes have been around for 35 years and mountain bike trails are less then 20 years old.
The bike industry does support trailbuilders in a very big way, some of my friends are full time IMBA trail builders! so your point is off the mark, does the industry support illegal trailbuilding no, and it shouldn't because it is not sustainable to our sport and is counterproductive. I say this as a person who has built illegal trails and have seen some get torn down and some are still around from what i hear. The only way to ensure trails are around 20 years from now is the legally built way.
We all as mountain bikers need to be focusing our energy on trail access and legal trailbuilding, everything else is going to be wasted effort. Yes some illegal trails turn into legal trails but a majority of them get torn down and give ammo to all the anti bike groups out there, like the Sierra Club.
We are getting off topic so good luck to you up there and I am sure we will run into each other on the trails up there or maybe you come down and ride what we have here, it will be well worth your trip. let me know when you do I would be happy to show you the trails, and I can assure our legit trails are not lame in the least bit!
I do agree what you guys having going up there is awesome and I hope it continues long after we are not riding anymore. But when you look at the country as a whole you are the ones in an awesome bubble of great trails, the rest of the country is not so lucky. It's not speculating or generalizing it is a truth you can't deny.
1 respect the trail builder and their vision. (i can speak for myself, i am open to others ideas.)
2 stop dumbing down the trail if you cant do a section don’t make a new go-around ask someone who can they will most likely tell you more than you ever wanted to know about how.
3 one day of work doesn’t entitle someone to carte blanche on the rest of the trail or area.
Eventually word gets out if ur trails any good, and/or someone gets hurt on it and crap snowballs from there like rain down a fallline trail.
Also keep in mind the sport will never grow (and bike will never be cheaper, pros will never be able to make a living) if there isn't legal opportunities for the mass to ride some of these trails.....
So yes I respect real trail builder that build great trail from scratch but be honest with yourself there's lot of grey area and trolling. I think respect and not something you can claimed but it's something you must deserved.
Also keep in mind the sport will never grow (and bike will never be cheaper, pros will never be able to make a living) if there isn't legal opportunities for the mass to ride some of these trails.....
So yes I respect real trail builder that build great trail from scratch but be honest with yourself there's lot of grey area and trolling. I think respect and not something you can claimed but it's something you must deserved.
What if you are the landowner, and people are starting to build a trail that goes through it? You ride, you understand people want to build trails and enjoy them, but you also live in a country where someone that gets hurt on an illegal trail going through your land can sue you. What are you supposed to do, be the grinch that ruins people's fun? You can talk to the builders and ask them to build elsewhere, but sometimes trail builders will ignore you and just say 'you can't just BUY this land, man, its for everyone'. In the end of the day someone is responsible for everything that occurs on a privately owned piece of land. Any thoughts on situations like this?
Now this spot is just 2 kickers a hip and some rollers and a trick jump no flow, no fun and complete shit now its 100% abandoned cause of these dumb kids.
I think private trails and shit cool 100% respect to the builders but how do us people get into a good scene of people to help and have a good time, I ride my bike 5+ hours just to do 1 run cause i'm not "Holy" enough...I wont touch a shovel inless I got your permission to HELP! So that no dig no ride is not really a good saying to use...
Nothing sucks more than riders or others not showing trail builders the respect they deserve. I personally expect you to follow my rules or the rules of the trail regardless if Illegal on private property or public lands. If I was cool enough to show you my secret trails, invite you to my house, or just meet you on the local public trails that I (our group) maintains. I expect you to respect the hard work and time put into to make an awesome places for you to ride. Its simple If you don't I wont invite you back and i certainly won't show you any more of my goods and I will make sure to let all my fellow builders int he region know to not let you in on their secret stashes.
We all know how you are the most awesomest trail builders ever but keep it to your self and work out your ideas on your own trails or share respectfully your ideas with me. Don't tell me my jumps sucks just because you can't hit big gaps. Don't change our lips or build go arounds on techy/steep sections. For god's sake everyone repeat after me "WE DO NOT REMOVE ROOTS OR ROCKS" If we close a trail don't poach it regardless if its on public land , private land , or mars for that matter. Respect the rules of trail! respect the builders who make places for you to ride. Enjoy riding the vision of the builder even if it s not yours... Remember whats the first rule of fight club we do not talk about fight club........
If you ride it, there should be some form of acknowledgment whether it be helping out or even just props to the bulider.. Like wise builders should be stoked on riders choosing their trails to ride and shred on! Surely we all build and ride for the same reasons? Why can't builders and riders work together to expand the sport and everything within it... Peace out.
P.s build your own trails if you dont like the rules!
I hope to be helping a friend build a new trail this spring, when our hectic lives allow us some time off that suits both of us
A few years ago me and some buds spent about 6+ hrs clearing a trail of windfall , huge physical day, absolutely just tapped !
We cut out the last log at the end of the trail , then 3 dudes who were lost rode by us ! We were blown away, they had no idea what we had just done,and they had no idea where they were . Anyhow, they rode away. 10secs later the last dude came back thanked us and gave us 20bucks for beer. We took it and laffed our asses off , then drank beer !
'Thanks' goes along way in my book ..
i am a dirt jump trail builder an because my trail is really known in my neibourhood i have a big problem
i think that if you want to ride in your way like dartmoor says you must built your trail in your own references and dont let anyboby destroy your trail
in the other hand if you dont have enought time or you dont like digging offcorse you can ride in others trails but you must respect them because they offer something importand for youand help them as much as you can
just ride your bike guys have fun and RESPECT
IF YOU DONT AGREE WITH YOU TRAIL BUILDER GO RIDE IN OTHER PLACES OR GO HOME AND SELL YOUR BIKE
(sorry for bad english)
If it is a legal trail, ran by a local trail club or other organization, fair game for any one.
If it is an illegally built trail that few close riding friends know about, even if it is on illegal land, I would agree in saying 100% that it is "their" trail. We don't have many here, and the riding scene isn't so huge where you are going to get poachers and such. You will be very lucky to find viable terrain within a reasonable driving distance to make a trail project worth it. That being said me and my close mates have one in progress and if loads of people started showing up when its complete, namely uninvited riders, that could possibly pose a problem with property owners(whoever they may be) and law enforcement obviously. I'm not going to go starting a fight or some shit but i would explain to them the situation, if they don't abide by said rules they then they are not welcome. Or let them stay and risk losing the trail altogether because of their inability to do what has been asked.
Trail boss makes the rules. It sounds like the situation in the area's mentioned in comments and article have it way worse than we do. I would take that trade off due to the flat terrain we have here personally. Nonetheless, what the boss says is what goes. They built it, with their own f*cking hands. It IS theirs.
While I agree that if a trail is built from scratch then whoever builds it should be respected and listened to and everybody who rides it often should give a hand at maintaining it, there is a part of it that you did not mention in the article.
I don't know how it is in Canada, but here in Spain many of the trails we ride are either formed by continuous passing or old mountain walking paths or parts of old mountain "roads" and whatnot, and there is no maintenance done to them, none at all. It's just there and the bushes don't grow because people goes on them and if eg. there's a big rock in the middle after a big rain somebody will get it out of the way, but that's all that's done in the way of maintenance. They turn twice as gnarly during rain season because rain here means 2 days of massive rains then don't see it for a while, and that rain really overruns the terrain and brings out ruts/rocks/whatnot, but we don't touch them, we just keep riding them a tad slower until the continuous passing sort of settles them again.
All this is to explain this: as I said, if we're talking about a built from scratch trail (as in before there were just bushes and you wouldn't even think about riding there) then yes, trail builder is king and respect him and abide by its rules. But then someone doesn't like a section of the kind of trails I'm talking about and decides they're going to build a berm here or I'm gonna "fix" this very rocky section I don't like that kills my arm and make it all flowy, then I have a problem if that person goes all a*shole and boss mode, because I don't see why should I stop using something or abide by crazy laws on a trail that was there and because that person didn't like the way of it decided to change it. I liked it the way it was, but hey, I can put up with you changing it if you want, as long as you're willing to put up with the fact that other people may have liked it the way it was and are not going to be spending time or avoiding said trail just because you decided to "fix it" or soften it because it was too rough for you.
Again, I understand that a nice built trail with cool berms and precise transitions and jumps and carefully man made rockgardens and very flowy is a cool thing to ride, and I utterly respect those who build them and never put my tires on one of those trails before being given permission and/or offering my help to keep them going, but I expect others to understand the other side of it too. Because while it's cool to build them and everything and I respect in that sort of trails the "no dig no ride", some of us don't have or don't want to spend that extra time and are just happy riding the existent trails, rough and sometimes non-flowy or abrupt as they may be, without having to dedicate a vast amount of our limited ride time working on those trails.
And this goes even more when we go a step below (I am assuming that this article is mostly focused on downhill trails) and we go to enduro/am trails. When I'm going to be spending over 2/3s of my time on the way up and getting tired and so on, I don't mind and I actually prefer if the trail is less worked on and more natural, often implying a rougher/slower descent which, after so much time pedalling up, I appreciate more than a 5 minute full on uber fast way down.
"Can't we all just get along?"
We GPS a potential Track
We pass GPS to FC for permission to build on the Queens land as they are only the caretakers
We design the track
We pay for our own tools and materials which can cost thousands
We build track with an average 4 volunteers and the current project has taken every Saturday for 8 months so far
We have to buy 5 million public liability insurance in case some selfish dick rides track half built and crashes then tries to claim
We finish track and test ride it
The FC then send an inspector to sign the track off
Then we can open it but I guess the track belongs to the Queen
All we ask is
Don't ride the Trail until it is finished and we say its open
Don't ask when its going to be finished unless..You are going to come and help
Don't ask me how much we get paid I am a volunteer you douche
Don't skid it makes me work and wrecks the trail, learn to use your fekin brakes
Make regular donations we have collection boxes at Trail Centre Café and a Paypal button on our website
Show some respect when you see trail builders even if its only a "thanks guys much appreciated" remember we are building in our riding time
Cheers
Alan
Chairman of the Dean Trail Volunteers, Forest of Dean, Gloucestershire, UK
I do, however, believe that there are core groups who invest far more time and resources into a trail than anyone else, which in turn should grant them some degree of exclusivity in the maintenance and build-up of "their" trail. Trail building ain't rocket surgery, but it's nonetheless a craft with a high degree of failure among the recreational 'digger/builder'.
Want to contribute? Find out who's labor of love it is. Ask them if they'd like help. If not, enjoy it in the fashion and form they have intended it to take on.
The no-dig, no-ride "rule" doesn't take into account a lot of factors, but I do STRONGLY encourage all trail users to give at least one day a year to trail maintenance. I feel that if they can't do at least that much, then they are posers who shouldn't be using the trails.
Andrew
www.southokanagantrailalliance.com
Interesting to see all the trailbuilders chime in though... Man, there's a LOT of trail out there.
I think I would amend the "no dig, no ride" mantra. I think it's impossible to dig (more than move sticks and logs, rake a berm or pick up other people's trash (bastards)) on every trail you've ridden, due to time and travel constraints. Some of us actually have jobs five, six and seven days a week. AND kids. The "no one has less time than anyone else" BS comment is ignorant.
So pick one trail and make a difference. Closer to home is the best place to start, or your most visited trail. Work a berm. Cut back the foliage just a bit. Hell, build a bigger jump. Just do something. Imagine the change with 15 minutes of work from every rider on a trail each visit. I'd like to live in that world.
Please note: this does not mean moving the rocks out of a difficult rock garden, or clear cutting the entire landing of a jump you don't know how to land right, or creating a new section of trail that quite doesn't flow without putting in some serious trail digging time WITH OTHER PEOPLE WHO KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING.
so shut the f*ck up or I'll break your face"
I kid, Chaz, I kid.
if the trail is on public land, that is what I do. if the trail is on private land, I do my dang best to find the owner of the land and get there permission so I don't, illegally, trespass on there property.
I don't modify other peoples work, ill help maintain it if I see a problem when im there, but I wont modify what someone else built. that doesn't mean I wont put in a different line or trick though. just step 10' off the current trail, so you don't change the way it was made.
with that said......if somebody tries to tell me what/how/when I can ride a trail......I proudly tell them to shut the F up, and continue on my way. I'm from NW Montana, so unless I'm at a resort or a FREQUENTLY used trail location, I always have pepper spray and my .45 in my backpack. so if somebody is EVER an ass to me, especially when they have no right to, that is the first thing two things I will show them. I try and keep the trails nice and maintained, and I don't have a clue who made/started 70% of the trails I ride. I have also had 40+ people try and tell me what to do when im out ridding. so far all I have had to do is tell them to STFU and go away, and they have.
When the local government sees that this is popular they adjust the laws. How do you think bike lanes started?