Alex Rims, Shimano's E-Bike Motor, Miranda XMOD Crankset - Taipei Cycle Show

Mar 25, 2017
by Mike Levy  
2017 Taipei Cycle Show

Taipei Cycle Show


We showed you Alex's prototype carbon rims from last year's Interbike show, and the rim giant is still working towards a number of production offerings, including a burly 27.5'' hoop that won't break the bank. Pricing is yet to be decided, but I was told last year that a complete wheelset should ring in around $1,100 USD. At the center will their new Bear Paws hubs that are all about reliability and easy maintenance - no tools are required to take them apart or swap to different axle configurations, and there's also an aluminum freehub option that sees a thin steel sleeve slid over top to prevent gouging.


Taipei Cycle Show
Taipei Cycle Show


Carbon fiber BMX rims? Sure, why not. Alex is bringing the black magic to 20'' wheels with their prototype AXC1 carbon rim that weighs a claimed 370-grams, a very competitive number for a rim that's designed to brush off an immense amount of abuse. Unidirectional carbon construction is used to create a rim that's 24mm tall and with an internal width of 26mm (35.4mm external), but Alex hasn't completely forsaken aluminum for the AXC1. Each spoke hole also sees a small ring of aluminum where the nipple nests into the rim for added reinforcement. The AXC1 is still in the prototype stage so there's no pricing yet, but don't expect it to be inexpensive.


Taipei Cycle Show


Talk about contradictions; this titanium hardtail frame was designed to fit Shimano's E8000 direct-drive e-bike motor and 500Wh battery. That's the polar opposite of most e-bikes we've seen at the show that resemble freeride rigs from the early 2000s but in uglier colors and with a motor. In contrast, this sleek looking setup is far from being an eyesore, even with the 70 Nm helper attached to it.


Taipei Cycle Show
Taipei Cycle Show


Taipei Cycle Show


Miranda's new XMOD crankset is all about extreme modularity and compatibility, hence the setup's name. The idea is to have only three main components - bottom bracket spindle, crank arms, and spider - that can be fit to pretty much any and every bike by only having to do a simple parts swap. Miranda says that the XMOD system can be put on everything from road to cross-country to downhill to trekking bikes, with more options to come.


Taipei Cycle Show
Taipei Cycle Show


The titanium spindles will fit all sorts of bottom bracket interfaces, including all of the major options out there and a few more obscure ones, and they'll be available in a load of different lengths as well. Same goes for the interchangeable spider, and there's even a direct-mount chainring, too. Depending on the setup, a total weight of well under 600-grams is said to be possible.






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Member since Oct 18, 2005
2,032 articles

158 Comments
  • 157 49
 Please stop covering ebike stuff. The only way to be rid of it is to pretend it doesn't exist.
  • 102 11
 Pro tip: Run to your bed and hide under a blanket. If you can't see the article, then it's not there.
  • 56 125
flag bat-fastard (Mar 25, 2017 at 2:01) (Below Threshold)
 get over it, they are hear to stay and perfectly legal in the EU. If your laws are a mess then that's your problem.
  • 106 15
 @bat-fastard: Personally, I am very happy with the regulations that keep these things out of our national parks.
  • 13 0
 That's how I deal with mechanical problems in my bike and is all running smooth.
  • 42 5
 Yes start a sister site e-PB for that e-MTB crap. Now if somebody starts selling a portable EMP device that would be worth reviewing here. Smile
  • 36 11
 Yes, this is a mtb site, not an electric motorized site.
  • 25 6
 +1 on ignoring. We vote when we shop. Just don't buy em' and they'll go away.
  • 43 52
flag rupintart (Mar 25, 2017 at 8:17) (Below Threshold)
 This is a MTB site....for you guys to say "e-MTB shouldn't be covered here..." You literally typed "mtb" in your post...i's an ELECTRIC mountain bike...which means, wait for it....it's a mountain bike. It may not be your flavor, but it's still a mountain bike...stop being so ignorant.
  • 1 4
 @vikb: tup ha ha haa best comment!!
  • 8 17
flag RedBurn (Mar 25, 2017 at 13:38) (Below Threshold)
 @cmcrawfo:
u serious ?? some places forbid e bikes ??? 4 real ??? why ?? (it doesnot disturb anyone, its still and "nature friendly" )
  • 1 0
 @vikb: saltwater in a common yard sprayer
  • 10 2
 @rupintart: ignorant huh?...if you say so. Motorized vehicles are seperate genre from mtb no matter how many wheels they have or what they look like
  • 13 18
flag rupintart (Mar 25, 2017 at 16:51) (Below Threshold)
 @jrocksdh: it's a MTB first, motorized vehicle second...if it were completely a motorized vehicle it'd be called a motorcycle...but, surprise, it's not....
  • 15 0
 @rupintart: will that's just about the most disingenuous statement ever. If they were called unicorns would they actually be unicorns?

If I build a gas powered pedal assist bike, is that a bike or a motor cycle?

What if I make an ebike that goes faster the louder you go braaaaaaap? A vocal assist bike? Is that a motor cycle or a bike?

Now to be clear, I'm fine with ebikes. Well I think they are kinda stupid, and I sort of look down on the people who ride them, but I'm ok with them on trails. As long as those trails are motorized access.

Also, as an aside, I ride a lot of trails that are motor cycle legal. Actually my favorite trails are motor cycle legal. I have no problem with motorized bikes on trails. Just not all trails.
  • 11 2
 @rupintart:Funny because as soon as you put a motor on it,it's a MOTOR bike.
  • 8 1
 @pcmxa: I agree with your comments for the most part and some of my favorite trails are also moto legal. What I don't understand in the ebike debate is the "I sort of look down on the people who ride them" part. Fun is fun whatever the tools involved. Trail access is my main concern, not the type of bike. It's just technology like the electric typewriter innovation (keyboard assist vs pedal assist) or a paddle/sailboat vs a motor boat. Face it, ebikes are here to stay. Hatred from traditional MTBers towards eMTBers will only risk future trail access. In North America, all user groups will need to work together in order to keep trails open and develop new areas to ride.
  • 3 0
 If only they added a chainsaw to the bike....
  • 3 0
 @teamtoad: Its not rational on my part. I can't defend it logically. But nonetheless, there is something about ebike riders that I find disheartening. Maybe it is because on trail days, there are hikers there, and moto riders, and mountain bikers. But nobody declaring themselves as eBikers (or even admitting to riding them). Maybe because these are moto legal trails, so why would you eBike? If you want a motor, then f*ck it, go for it. If you want human powered, do that. eBikes are something in between. A way to have a motor and also not have a motor. (and I say that as someone who rode eBikes in an urban setting). So they just seem wishy washy to me. Even the name. eBikes are most likely powered by coal in this country. The proximate source might be electricity, but coal powered it if you look at where the electricity came from. So it it is this weird faux hippy thing too. Andthen the laziness of it, without having to admit to the lazines of it. At least when I go to the bike park, I son't pretend I climbed to the top when I get off the lift. The lift took me up. I rode down.

Anyway, like I said, probably not rational.
  • 11 7
 The funny thing is that all the disheartened comments are by (north)Americans, who likely have never been overseas and experienced the fact that the reason ebikes haven't died is because it's a HUGE sector of business for manufacturers (just like folding bikes, which for many companies is their BIGGEST source of income). Go to Italy, Germany, Austria, Norway, Japan....and make the same comments you're making here....you'll find out they're pretty ignorant and you're actually in the minority...ebikes, whether road or mountain, aren't going anywhere. They don't require any DOT (or equivalent) registration or taxes and for the people that use them on the daily they're AWESOME for being able to get around and up and over hills. Travel a little, get out of your little box you call a world and you'll see that while you may not like it, it's something that's very useful to others and definitely not going anywhere....
  • 4 3
 @cmcrawfo: well we are allowed them over EU, they are fantastic if you try one. I know ones with them and ones that it will be their next bike. Lets say its mostly the older ones, some have been riding as donkeys years, they have bought them to keep biking. Me I still uplift all the time, but am looking at an ebike for when theres no uplift. Rest of the world its big business and are legal anywhere a mtb is.
  • 9 5
 @rupintart: Everyone's entitled to their opinion whether you like it or not in my opinion is if you ride an e-bike you're just f****** lazy
  • 8 4
 @teamtoad: i take issue with your definition of fun if it's involving a heavy bike marginally faster up hill, and in the flat than my existing Mtb. That's the point. Just because people too posh to push want their fun, people who've been riding trails for years face issues.

f*ck the lazy bastards saying "it's here to stay" like yourself. It's not here. It's trying to attach itself to our sport and most Mtb ers don't want it anywhere near them. Add to this the fact these self confessed time poor riders will never do one bit of trail building and your "can't we all get along" argument looks pathetic. Go and create your own trails, with your own issue, and stop being a fu king cling on on the arse of mountain biking.

Your "ebikes are here to stay" argument is an insult. It's assumption that because you're not bothered no one else is. By far the majority of comments are negative. Take the hint.
  • 2 2
 @rupintart: do you even have a passport?
  • 4 4
 @bat-fastard: 1. You think they're fantastic. Youre opinion. Won't convince a sceptic.
2. You know people with ebikes. Yes, birds of a feather. You can all be fan boys together, and compare battery life and digital read outs.
3. It. Mainly old farts, yes.
4.Big business....not Mtb. Commute maybe, but Mtb is not as keen to accept this as existing experienced Mtb riders have all had trail access issues and treat this matter seriously.
5. Legal now.

Youre like a politician, arguing the case for a product slow to be adopted, not being spoken of in a great light by its so called target audi nice, and the people who have them already are not really making others buy them. Your sounding a bit like a bloke with a C5 (if you can remember what that gimmick was).

By the way, pretending it's easier to pedal a power assist bike with a disability than a normal lightweight Mtb is disengenious. If you can't pedal unassisted, the last thing you should do is go in the middle of somewhere you've already accepted is beyond you (hence the ebike) in case you have a mechanical and get stuck. Unless you're one of those idiot who go boating off the Cornish coast in an inflatable dinghy - it's literally no different.

So, respond as you see fit. I think you're missing the point about ebikes and the reluctance here to accept them.

If you want to create a safe space for ebikers then create a website and hang with people who are like minded.

I am getting annoyed with ebike lovers trying to recruit from a Mtb website. Or even bothering to argue when told you're not welcome. Who will maintain the trails for people who can't pedal uphill without a ebike? Seriously, you're a lazy lad aren't you, and you got no consideration for the trails you ride and the people who fight for their use and maintain them. Your arrogance and attiatude that "they're legal so who's to argue" is not what people on this site want to hear.

I think you're fighting a losing battle.
  • 5 5
 @Bustacrimes: I do have a passport...and wrench professionally for a living both privately for professional athletes and events, many times overseas.

You know why they created eBikes? For the elderly and disabled in other countries... So it's cool all you hip people are alienating a sector of people from our sport simply because you don't like them...I'll be sure to let Martyn Ashton know he's not welcome in the MTB scene because he has an ebike.
  • 3 2
 @rupintart: no, they were created to make MONEY!! ride CHARGE ride CHARGE ride CHARGE...it wont last.
there is gonna be lots of stranded people with no means of getting home, silly idea.
  • 6 3
 @baggyferret: And why do you think they make money? Because it gets many people who can't pedal up hills efficiently up them. It's getting lots of people into the sport that you're not even aware of. In Italy this past month watching people who would otherwise not even be on a bicycle going to the market were on bikes...ebikes. Pedaling the flats, getting assisted up the hills.

And it's not STRICTLY electric....you can pedal them. It's not an electric scooter, it's an electric BICYCLE.

It's funny to watch the outcry on here when very few of you has ever really been exposed to one. I don't own one, never will, and loathe the day I have to regularly work on them, but I realize it's income for my shop, it's getting people otherwise not interested in cycling on bikes. It's getting disabled people back on bikes. It's doing a lot more than the complaining people on this thread are. If you keep shunning people away from your sport it won't grow. Be happy more and more people are getting into it...the avenue of which may not be your cup of tea, but that wasn't your decision to make in the first place.

It's this very mentality that skiers/snowboarders have towards skibikes and why many resorts don't allow them on the slopes. Be happy people are getting on the slopes...not the venue of which brings them there. Then you'll realize that it's better for the community as a whole to have the diversity...
  • 3 2
 @rupintart: The fall back argument for ebikes is disability. I can't find numbers so it's hard to be precise as to the number of people wanting to get into cycling but held back by disability. I know a squaddy who got shot in the foot and rehabbed well enough to race again. I know Martyn Ashton was unlucky (I was at Silverstone the day he broke his back).

I also work in the trade. And I know bike shops have been coerced into stocking these bikes in traditional Mtb stores. Not the rider owned stores generally, but the high street bike shops who want to sell to everyone. In some cases, I also know that the owners wouldn't have them in there if they were paying for them. Most are on SOR or long invoices.

If there's such a demand, why aren't we seeing as many on the trails in EU as you state. My passport comment was because of this. Maybe when you're wrenching for pros, who sit in their motor homes (paid for by the sponsor) and ride their race bikes (paid for by the sponsor) they also have an ebike for whizzing round the pits (paid for by the sponsor). I think it's the environment that's making you think they're popular and being held back back a false wave of propaganda. I'd love a motor home for lounging around between laps of the local parkland. Totally impractical and unnecessary.

So make this about a small, tiny minority with disability that you claim are queuing up to be Mtb ers (which I don't believe exists) or be more rational and accept that the general reluctance from most on PB is not born of hatred for those less able, but more a hatred for something they see as represents most of what's wrong with the sport at the moment.
  • 2 1
 @Bustacrimes: 100% it's being forced on us hoping a few of us will take it up, it's big business pushing their fads to make a buck, then when they are done and profits start dropping they will come up with something 'new' and there will be a big pile of burnt out electric motorbikes poisoning the planet because the cost of keeping them working is crazy compared to a proper mountain bike. how much is a new battery pack? a new motor? yeah pennies i bet...not! there will be a need for 'Ebike breakdown recovery', how will a disabled Ebiker get home with a flat battery on their Ebike? i bet we don't get any answers to these real questions...
  • 3 4
 @Bustacrimes: troll away, I build as much as I ride. they are great for climbing up the forest roads, then when our trails start at top to bottom them you don't used batteries. The PDS europe's biggest bike park with 22 lifts in summer is full of shops renting these as past 2 years. go stick your head in the sand if you want but they are already a big part in EU where they have been legal for years and that's not going to change.
  • 2 2
 @rupintart: I travel a lot and I still don't like them. F**k me right?
  • 5 3
 @properp: do you drive a car ? Yes ? Why you should walk!? You must be f*cking lazy.
  • 5 0
 @baggyferret: Absolutely correct. Ebikes were created to make profit just like every other bike. Last summer I rented an ebike just for shits and giggles. It was a hardtail eMTB with a Deore XT drivetrain and had the Bosch motor with several different modes. I live in a city with horrible traffic, expensive parking, and there are substantial hills in every direction. I covered nearly 70 miles on the thing before the battery died and there was plenty of workout involved . Was I stranded? No, I just rode the 40lb thing home. The last 400ft hill climb to my home was a bit more of a grind than on my 30lb trail bike but not that bad. I could have just taken it on the bus or light rail.

When I tried a few trails in a local park the bike was fun but felt a bit janky in low speed technical sections. When the motor engaged with a pedal stroke, the bike would lurch forward and knock me off balance.

I can't see myself buying an ebike for trail specific use. However, I'd rather be commuting through the city on an ebike than sitting in gridlock traffic or searching for expensive parking with a car or motorcycle any day.
  • 4 1
 @Beez177: Better yet, run. Walking is for lazy people.
  • 2 0
 @teamtoad : Good reply, thanks! I wonder the cost over say 4 years, riding mountains 5 days a week, all weather? The cost of charging, servicing and parts? A full suss version, high spec, I ride a lot and always mountain trails, my full suss rush weighs around 25lbs
  • 2 0
 @baggyferret: I know the replacement cost of the batteries is massive - $800-$1000 and the way these things are advancing, 4 year old technology will be dated. People will just buy new bikes and the used market will be filled with old tech just like standard bikes.

Also, with all of these hoverboard and cell phone lithium batteries catching fire, I'd be afraid to leave one unattended in my home!
  • 5 1
 I think you guys are missing the point....ebikes do make up a significant amount of the market. ebikes as a whole (not just eMTB), 3 years ago showed almost 200K units imported into the USA, where bicycle sales are SIGNIFICANTLY lower than the rest of the EU. So imagine how much went to the EU....

You're absolutely right that the eMTB market is a small segment of that, but the ebike market is flourishing and growing. Put it this way, there's more ebike sales than there are observed trials bikes. There are more ebike sales than high end BMX bikes (at the greater than $1000 pricepoint.) Global ebikes sales are nearly $16 BILLION...that's larger than DH bike sales. All markets you are all familiar with. They don't import more if they're not selling.

Yes, the fallback argument IS for the disabled. LOTS of people NOT disabled use the urban/roadbike versions, and that's where most of them are. just like lots of NON disable use recumbents. A projected $24 billion industry by 2025 doesn't mean it's dying...it's flourishing....just because you guys are too blind to see it (you don't want to see it) doesn't mean it's not there...

How will an ebiker get home with a dead battery? Easy, they pedal...if they can't pedal over the hill, just like every other cyclist on the road who has a flat with no spare tube...they call somebody. That should be pretty obvious. The people buying them are getting assisted pedaling, they're not inebriated.
  • 5 2
 @cmcrawfo: I've been ripping my ktm ebike at the local trails and its amazing. I easily double my actual trail riding time.

The way you imbeciles crap on e bikes only shows your ignornace, envy, or both.
  • 3 2
 @otto99: where are you coming from? I don't really get what you are trying to say .... Have fun riding bro. All I said, was I am happy they are banned in our national parks. Plenty of other places to eBrap. Namaste
  • 3 5
 E-bike is a poor term. Its a gimpy motor bike. New websites needed for all that, then perhaps we can subtly sidestep away from the drama associated with mountain bikes ruining the countryside with their MOTORS.
  • 3 1
 @bat-fastard: I wouldn't want them in the welsh countryside or bikeparks either.
Its a matter of perspective as to which laws are a mess. Keep em on the Moto trails.
  • 1 1
 @rupintart: So motorbikes dont go on mountains?

Its not a mountain bike.
  • 2 1
 @teamtoad: Not really keyboard assist is it. The keys dont press themselves down using tiny little actuators when you touch them to save your fingers having to strain themselves.

These things are the mc.muffin in the health food store. I think thats half the hatred. Mountain biking isn't all enduro and chairlifts.
  • 3 1
 @rupintart: I will say its good for the unfit or disabled.

Other than that you will like a lazy tit riding one.
  • 1 1
 @Bustacrimes: Lol great observation
  • 1 1
 @teamtoad: Muscle atrophy will end that 70mile blaze of glory.
  • 2 2
 @teamtoad: Just slap one of those little petrol lawnmower engines to it like they do on the city bikes here in pr. Theyve been doing that since the war and longer. Works, no battery issues. Almost as terrible for the environment...but it wont have that my bike is fancier than yours feel I guess. Perfectly effective but kinda rustic.
  • 2 1
 @rupintart: I'll throw the environmental damage caused by lithium batteries and they're production up against the disabled riders argument.
Its like the devil saw people switching to greener motivations and decided to play on humans lazy nature.

Also how many very cool hand cranked bikes have we seen built for disabled riders. Shame we dont see those being mass produced, always one off builds. And those guys are fit as fk. Two years of use and the body will just be starting to severely lose strength. And pedalling an ebike home just wont be an option.j
  • 1 0
 @Enzyme: I have a few of friends who have done just that to make very cool little ratrod bikes for the city. Problem is that the noise attracts the attention of the cops especially when passing gridlocked traffic on the right, riding in bike lanes/paths and on sidewalks which is all legal where I live on a bicycle or ebike. They occasionally receive expensive citations from the police because the petrol motor makes them illegal without vehicle registration etc. but ride them anyway.
  • 4 2
 This ebike hate is getting ridiculous.
The scenarios you guys are creating are just getting silly now.
Can we all just agree they are a diverse subdivision of MTB and just get on with life without the hate?
  • 4 1
 @randybadger: Agreed 100%!
  • 5 0
 @Enzyme: already in bike park wales, people use them to climb up rather than use the uplift, get more runs and also a workout from pedalling up rather than sitting in bus.
  • 2 1
 @rupintart: Take bicycle add motor...- motorcycle... It's a mountain motorcycle. I'm not an historian, but I'm guessing that's what the initial evolution of motorcycles was back in the day? Anyway just my thoughts bro.
  • 1 2
 @Enzyme: dude you nailed it, we must look at the long term negatives, lets be honest, there are many with Ebikes that aren't associated with proper mountain bikes. NO-ONE will pedal an Ebike with a flat battery where i ride, ever. ignoring the very real negatives of these Ebikes will come and bite us in the ass later on, we warned ya.
  • 3 0
 @bat-fastard: but they are nowhere near as good going down! Facepalm
  • 3 0
 @rupintart: riding an Ebike in the mountains and getting a flat battery is a big deal, NO PHONE RECEPTION, oh you wont be calling anyone and hauling a 50lb plus beast up and over boggy mountains isn't gonna happen, not when it's 20 miles to nearest town....


thats a lot of batteries to get rid of when they need replacing, where they gonna go? this is gonna end badly, give it a few years and you'll see.
  • 1 0
 @bat-fastard: Uplift parks are about the only place on the planet where these things are even slightly justifiable off the road, but clearly there's a market beyond that.
  • 5 1
 Seriously, Pinkbike should review "Johnsons and Johnsons, No more tears" Baby shampoo. Seams like a lot of Pinkbike users could stand to use this product.
  • 2 0
 @baggyferret: that's why I have my dh bike and sit in the bus Smile They are good for places with no uplift but.
  • 1 2
 @Enzyme: Hope you get rid of your cell phone then, because cell phones have a far bigger volume of lithium worldwide than ebikes do.

And what do you think the ebikes are for? The unfit....that's who it's marketed towards...this gets people into cycling...

As for the hand bikes...those are definitely not one off...LOTS of companies make them and they're all over the place...it just shows your ignorance and bias.
  • 1 0
 @Beez177: no i ride a bike
  • 2 3
 Seriously, you guys really all need to grow up.
  • 1 5
flag WAKIdesigns (Mar 28, 2017 at 1:55) (Below Threshold)
 Don't listen to @properp, he suffers from oxygen depravation. He does high altitude shreddage in Florida.

But yes, Pink-E-bike or Pe-E-bike, why not. Oh I know, only Plus members can hide E-bike content.
  • 5 0
 @WAKIdesigns: how many times have you been to Florida? How many of the trails have you ridden here? There's a saying about people who run their mouths and they do not have first-hand experience about what they're talking about.
  • 2 5
 @properp: I know you think that I am stupid, it's ok, why do you think everyone else is stupid to not check that you are talking sht and there aren't really any MTB-name-worthy trails on Florida and the most MTB sht you have down there is a fkng pump track... have you built a 300ft tall stack of rotten tomatoes using slave labor? Saying there are MTb trails on Florida it's like saying there are MTB trails around Amsterdam or Warsaw or Manitoba, or Downhill tracks around Washington or Detroit. You got a heat stroke and your garage fell on your head last September. Now E-bikes are to blame
  • 3 1
 @WAKIdesigns: you definitely need to get your computer out of the room where you charge your ebike. I told you those batteries are off-gassing and f****** up your brain. You gotta quit breathing that s*** man.
I'm sure world-class athletes of all stature and Allsports that come to Florida to train all winter no absolutely nothing. When the best of the best show up here to do winter training they must be really ignorant. Please inform us of where to go in the winter. I'm sure it's much better to sit at high altitude and look out the window at the snow then it is to actually ride. You are such a genius maybe you should come to the USA and run for president.
  • 1 0
 S.W.A.M.P. mtb
  • 2 4
 @properp: "Everyone's entitled to their opinion whether you like it or not in my opinion is if you ride an e-bike you're just f****** lazy"

In your opinion, which of the following MTBers is the most lazy?

a) Ebike rider pedaling up a fire road
b) Conventional bike MTBer pedaling up a fire road
c) MTBer sitting in a shuttle truck with his bike in the back driving up a fire road

My main concern with ebikes is that trail access will be compromised.
  • 2 4
 @teamtoad: he's a E-bike troll. He pops up and calls people names every single time E-bike related stuff comes along. Anyways it's not a good topic. Once I proposed gasing people who buy E-bikes and hanging their dead bodies by the rib on the liftchairs in Whistler and got tens of upvotes.
  • 2 0
 " "
  • 1 0
 @teamtoad: theres your problem your trail access is a mess, ours isn't so theres no problem with ebikes. Ride one if you want to or not simples.
  • 1 0
 @bat-fastard: Sounds noble but don't expect people who live in places with temperamental trail access to suddenly be open to Ebikes on trails just because they're a hit in Europe and Asia.

I'm not against Ebikes as long as they're on a commuter bike and following traffic laws. However I am fully against them on my local trails.
  • 1 3
 @Kenfire24: I am all for cars as long as they are following traffic laws...

For instance I genuinely hate SUVs, I think they are the dumbest sort of vehicle ever invented. They have just as much interior and loading space as Combi, but their center of mass is higher, they are heavier and waste at least 20% more fuel. They are often less comfortable than combis since suspension must be stiffer. They are arguably safer since the risk of roll over is higher. Their 4x drive is often worthless, ride height is barely increased. I am fully against SUVs. Their tyres are huge and expensive, pseudo 4x drive causes increased service costs and lower reliability. I drove a few and they are as exciting to drive as a mini bus or having sex with dead drunk girl, and wearing 2 condoms without a lubricant. Therefore I truly believe that people who buy these as "child wagons" are fecking dumb. And there's only more and more of them.

Oh well, I can do as much against poliferation of SUVs as you can do against poliferation of E-bikes. That is NOTHING.
  • 1 0
 @Kenfire24: heres the thing proper ebikes the ones that meet the legislation are no more damaging than a mtb. Electric motorbikes on the other hand are a different matter. The law here is very clear on which is which.
  • 3 0
 @bat-fastard: no more damaging to what? The trail? The envoronment? Public perception? Listen man, you're good with them and they are popular in your country so that's cool. Just because you like them doesn't mean I do. We just live in different parts of the world and have different opinions on the matter.
  • 1 5
flag WAKIdesigns (Mar 28, 2017 at 11:33) (Below Threshold)
 @Kenfire24: If you have ever ridden an electric motor assisted mtb you'd know that they are less damaging to the trail than regular bikes. The trend with E-bikes is heading towards using plus sized tyres and these are much less damaging trails than any regular tyre, especially in too dry/ too wet conditions.

Yes you may like whatever you like, it doesn't make your arguments any more rational. As to the care for environment citizens of US of A have no right to any say in that matter. Maybe Elon Musk and NASA can provide you some redemption.
  • 1 3
 @Kenfire24: to the trail for one, they aren't that much heavier than a normal bike, they don't spin the wheels, you have to pedal them to get assistance so you don't end up going any faster than a normal bike, its just easier to climb on one that's it really. Public perception its hard to tell the difference actually as they don't go any faster and don't make braap braap noises. The new ones like rotwilds for instance with hidden batteries and intergrated motor there isn't much visible difference.
  • 2 1
 @WAKIdesigns: I'm not trying to make a rational argument, I'm stating my opinion.

As for the environment and being a US citizen... I was unaware that because half the population here voted for a moron, we are all the same. I thought folks from Sweden were a little more open than that. Thankfully even as a eco-hating American I know better than to think you represent all Swedes. Enjoy your E-bike and E-go.
  • 5 1
 @teamtoad: my main concern is they try to group them with bicycles. That's the real issue. If they called them emo pads there would be no rub.
  • 2 2
 @Kenfire24: I'm a bad representative for all Swedes since I was born in Poland and Poles are a sour bunch. And Poles have also voted for a moron, or rather for a 51% of parliament to be filled with morons. US got out extremely lucky, he can't do much without the Congress, Polish gov can do whatever they want, they dismantled constitution already. Poles also feed atmosphere over Europe with nice dosage of harmful particles coming out of chimneys. Electricity is expensive to heat a house - is it? - naa ee aaa eh... fk everybody let's just burn coal, oil and garbage in the cellar. You could at least burn gas from Russia in a modern oven? Naaaah fk Putin, we have national pride and patriotic government. Coal, plastic and car tyres will provide just enough heat without taking money to put food on the table. Nah let's fk food, we'll buy the cheapest stuff from a French Mart, (we'll throw half of it away), and instead buy a SUV (only to fk it up in stupid traffic accident cuz we have to drive like maniacs and a*sholes), aaand a 3 big TVs, aaaand 4th and 5th bike and 10 tablets, cuz people in the West have tablets, we are after all the greatest nation in the Eastern Europe... the West must respect us! We killed Communism after all! Berlin Wall wouldn't fall without us, we were sheltering jews during WW2 aaan aaaaaand aaaaaand... respect us! - Oh really mate? is Poland that great, sounds like you are proud of it, good! - Naaaaah Poland is sht, we are a terrible nation, horrible people, terrible government, we are descendants of peasants, Polish bikes are crap, Godziek didn't win Rampage, I wish I was dead, shame shame.

Ok I guess I got a bit Swedish after 10 years, I enjoy shitting on absolutely everybody hahaha Big Grin

But I don't school people on environmental impact of E-bikes Smile
  • 1 0
 @WAKIdesigns: I thought being polish was all about getting drunk on vodka in play grounds and wrestling bears?
  • 1 0
 @randybadger: no. Stealing German cars
  • 17 2
 "freeride rigs from the early 2000s but in uglier colors and with a motor"

A gallery of these please Big Grin
  • 8 5
 Just censor out all the electric bits to keep us happy.
  • 19 4
 carbon rims and e bikes ,nothing to see here !
  • 9 0
 So shimano decded to invest in the r and d to make a devise that radicaly changes the way bike frames are built. Its there welded to that titanium frame. And its NOT a gear box. Kind of pisses me off.
  • 4 0
 Yeah it's sorta messed up. Could Shimano slide a gearbox in there later on. Who knows?
  • 3 0
 @gonecoastal: almost the exact same size as a Pinion gearbox.....hmmmmm?
  • 3 0
 @Bustacrimes: "Things that make you go hmmm" 100% chance that the mounting bolt patterns are different, because mtn bike industry standards.
  • 19 10
 Finally! the E-bike coverage we have been waiting for.
  • 10 5
 @pcmxa: Im an ebike MTB journalist. I was an motorbike journalist once upon a time (for largest mx mag in Europe), I have also been and still write/shoot MTB related stuff for many many mags online/off line. MTB is always about being open mind otherwise we would all be still stuck in the 70's.

All sports change, it happened in kitesurfing, with bridled tube kites.... hate, then they took over as everyone realised after trying them you could do more with them.

Probably the same will happen with Ebikes, once you have ridden them for a long time, firstly you understand they are not motorbikes in any way at all. Then you realise that they themselves are technologically going to change over time and get better, then when you ride next to normal bikes with normal bikers, swap, have fun explore go here go there, everyone is having a good time.

In my experience I would say downhill Ebikes are a tiny 1-2km/h bit slower than normal enduro machines downhil, in my hands. Uphill they are about 10-5km/h faster, so the overall average speed on a complete ride is about 3-8 mph (5-12km/h) faster. What happens is the range you can ride is massively expanded, like 2 x - 4x depending on the altitude climbed, and the type of trail you can ride is better, motorised trails actually become fun.

I can tell you this, nearly every single mtb journalist out there including the ones who say they "don't like them" has ridden them, had fun on them and knows they are going to disrupt everything. I've met them on press camps, seen them ride them and everyone is actually respectful of them, although inexperienced in how they ride etc.

All the pro riders have used them at some point, some even prefer them, more fun.

If you want you can come and hang out with me in one of the best ride locations in the world and play with them, no one is going to shout at you about it or kick you off the trails.

Every non bike rider who has tried one immediately thinks they are great, often these are the people that "hate" mtb riders/trails, they actually open minds in my experience.

I have seen in many sports things change, new technology takes over, fun goes up. cant say it more clearly.

Try one, a good one, and you will understand every bias you ever had is basically pointless. I would finish on one final point, I was riding once with Rene WIldhaber me on an ebike him on a normal bike. We were always riding together the same speed. In no way did the ebike damage the trails at all. Rene did more damage than me that day, if you call ripping corners the way he does as damage, (he is an amazing rider).

If you want a bit of conspiracy, then maybe he haters on here are provoking you to hate them, so they can generate more comments and interactions, to get more hits = more advertising, so remember it is in the interest of everyone to have something to talk about to make traffic, even if that is ebikes, in fact they will maybe make more traffic rather than less with ebikes.

have fun and enjoy whatever you ride.
  • 8 4
 erm, motor + bike = motor-bike....motorbike! a bike with a motor in it.
  • 3 8
flag makdthed (Mar 26, 2017 at 7:41) (Below Threshold)
 @baggyferret: oh dear ... @baggyferret: erm .. no .. cold not be more wrong mate
  • 3 3
 @makdthed: righto! Go on then Einstein, how so?
  • 8 4
 It's a shame that this mountainbike journalist clearly hasnt ever done any trail maintenance.

If this one had, he would have more sympathy for the access and issues that will be exacerbated by more people riding more quickly, for further distances. The only way for a pro ebike stance is to ignore these things. I am surprised a journalist doesn't understand the background of our sport.

Suggesting that anyone not pro ebike is missing the point is what every person not getting their way says.....just accept that on this forum, to this audience, it's a general non starter. People here like normal pedal bikes. Accept it.

You've got the skills to create a forum or website specifically for EMtb. If it's so great, go and do it. If you build it they will come. If you're right, and we are all so wrong and one ride will convince us of our error, you'll be breaking ground and the first. But I don't think you actually believe that. The smoke and mirrors you suggest, are actually the ones being used by people like you, close to the industry, to perpetuate your myths around the sport of mountain biking, the vehicle chosen to be the fall guy for electric bikes. Youre trying to legitimise something off the back of a group that is vocally ambivalent to your product. And your getting desperate, because the language is becoming condescending and arrorgant.....yeah, I am sure you believe we're all missing out because you like these bikes. Toss, as the majority don't feel that way, and you can clearly see it as you're making comments that reflect you're surprise. Again, surely your wise enough to see what going on here? An existing sport is being told, by you and people,e like you that it's time to change. Lol, the arrogance.


I've ridden one, on a road (kept up with traffic, felt safer) and off road. I also have a MX background. It's a f*cking joke to compare the two. If you scale fun as ^ for electric, then it's not possible to fit the ^^^^ for a proper powered bike like a motocross bike. But until the police clamped down, yobs everywhere used to ride around local woods on motorbikes, being louts and causing trouble. An ebike is a scaled down motorbike more than a bicycle. The yobs will buy them, guaranteed. And be yobs on them.

Surrey Hills gets more new riders every year (thanks Strava). It doesn't need increased speed, distance and further numbers to add to the pressure. An industry person pulling your strings about these things is just what it appears to be......
  • 6 1
 Getting help to the top doesn't make my ride more fun. Having a drastically heavier and crappy handling bike on the downhill doesn't make my ride more fun. Climbing up a mountain really isn't that bad with the right gearing and time on the bike. And if you want to train and push boundaries, that pain and suffering translates to self-improvement and self-gratitude. That's my fun. Fun is different for everyone
  • 1 0
 @joalst: a proper reply that can't be argued, nothing in = nothing out.

im still hung up on getting a flat battery miles from anywhere...thats a big deal to me (ignoring ALL of the other pitfalls), or submerging the thing and getting an electric shock! (and a shorted out battery!) lol
  • 3 1
 Excellent post here. I've been trying to advocate similar ideas and the backlash is insane! Mention Ebike here will get they lynch mob sent after you... It's like showing up to a Hillary rally wearing Trump merch...You'll just get shit on for no logical reason.
  • 2 0
 @Bustacrimes: *little round of applause*, well stated.
  • 2 1
 I'm sure lots of riders think they're great as they rip up the hill which previously exhausted them. That means nothing, they still don't have a place on the trails and I still think those riders are a bunch of lazy, inconsiderate dickheads.

I love how you state e-bikes are 10-15km/h faster up a hill, but somehow cause no more damage than a human-powered bike. And then attempt to justify it by saying 'well Rene roosts every corner anyway, so clearly the e-bike isn't the problem here'. Two separate issues, one biased opinion.
  • 2 2
 @baggyferret: motorbike ( motorcycle ) has a throttle... e-bikes you have to pedal to make it move.. your argument is weak. Don't like e-bikes? Then DON'T buy one!
  • 2 2
 @Beez177: like your legs then, learn to ride a proper bike and stop polluting the planet with your waste.
wasting electricity that ruins the planet making it, Facepalm
  • 2 1
 @baggyferret: I can ride circles around you on any bike any terrain, any jump. Get a clue, as you jump in your car and tell me to stop polluting the planet!
  • 1 1
 @Beez177: lol lol lol lol lol you have just typed the most ridiculous comment ever online! You silly boy!
Check my page and then appologize, or come over and I'll show you a real beating!
  • 1 1
 @baggyferret: whatever tosser
  • 1 2
 @Beez177: all mouth as always, I do more miles in a week than you do all year, you're pathetic, go get your electric bike and pedal along the motorway the wrong way. Muppet.
  • 2 0
 @baggyferret: all bell end as always. Keep believing your own BS
  • 1 1
 @Beez177: that's where you're wrong again, I'm not lying like you are, I see you have a couple of naff photos but nothing showing what you're bragging about, I, on the other hand have proof of the miles I put in, you fail, moron. Now go and get your dinner your mommy has been making for you lol then bed early for running your mouth.
  • 3 0
 Alright you two. No need to battle over who has the bigger weiner. Go ride your bike and stop blowing up my notifications lol
  • 1 0
 @gkeele: if you're worried about "erosion" and "damage" on trails, stop mountain biking. You're just a confused road biker. Get the spandex!
  • 1 2
 @baggyferret: What kind of loser post 786 photos on PB !! Hahaha how old are you? 14 ? Run along little boy and have your big black banana split!
  • 1 0
 @Beez177: ah now we can see why you are so offensive, you have 'daddy' issues! lol it all comes out in arguments Smile
  • 9 3
 Pedalling is a privilege if you are able, but this makes most people on this site very ignorant to other people that want to enjoy the outdoors in their own way.
  • 5 0
 AMERICA, LAND OF THE FREE... except if you do something I don't like, then I don't want you to do that. Seriously, if people want to experience the outdoors in their own way they should be able to. The problem is not with e-bikes, the problem is with stupid land access regulations and insurance issues. E-bike haters need to direct their anger in the proper direction.
  • 1 1
 @ka-brap: They will, they'll start sticking more spikes and deathtraps on mountain biking trails. Its going to be great.
  • 12 8
 It's motorized is no longer biking, its a motorcycle! Let's separate biking and e/ motorcycling cause people are already confused with Enduro and Mt. Biking! People are dilutional if they think riding a electric motor driven bikes on out local non motorized trails are ok.
  • 5 3
 You have to pedal to engage the motor. It is a pedaling amplifier. Wink Closer to a bicycle than a motorcycle with a throttle. I disapprove of throttled e-bikes for the same reasons as you. Let the hate flow...
  • 10 2
 @HerrDoctorSloth: Trying to create a grey area where there isn't one. Black and white.. motor or no motor.. end of story..
  • 3 1
 If I choose to equip my bike with electronic shifting, will I be considered an ebiker or do I need to earn my shifts?

Joking aside, with the involvement of Shimano, it's official that ebikes are here to stay. I think they are great for the city and offroad riding where motors are permitted. I can only hope that hatred towards ebikes and jackass usage will not lead to serious future trail access issues. Plenty of trails in North America have already been banned/not opened due to user conflicts that had nothing to do with ebikes.. Hopefully, all trail users will be able to figure out how to get along together. For all the haters, the only way ebikes will go extinct is for people to not buy them.
  • 6 1
 With the same logic using lift or shuttle is no longer mountain biking...
Luckily the US is not the whole world. The EU regulations are going with the time and 250W/25KPH pedelecs are bicycles you can ride them everywhere where bicycles are allowed. Sucks for you guys with all the restrictions...
  • 2 0
 @bosnianrider: So the 500 watt version of the Shimano E8000 would not comply with EU regulations or maybe it would with a max 25kph speed? Anyways, in Washington state, I believe current restrictions for a pedal assist is 1000W/20mph max which which is quite fast for a trail for most riders. There are many places where boats with motors are prohibited. It will need to be the same for bikes in North America if we want to preserve/grow trail access.
  • 1 0
 @teamtoad: Remember those fatbike things ..i think its taking that route.
  • 1 0
 @teamtoad: 500W engine performance and 500Wh battery capacity are two different things. The E8000 engine output is 70Nm/250W so it complies with EU regulations. The battery is 500Wh capacity which is now kind of standard and determines how far you can go with one charge - 700Wh coming in the near future.
I don't know pretty much anything about the state by state regulations in the US but I found the EU regulations absolutely sensible as the 250W/25KPH pedelec bikes don't have any negative impact on the trails compare to regular bikes. In the EU they are not motorbikes but regular bikes as they should be.
  • 2 0
 @HerrDoctorSloth: Exactly like the first mopeds you mean.
  • 2 0
 @gkeele: Mopeds had/have trottle pedelecs don't so not exactly...
  • 2 0
 @bosnianrider: Throttle is in the pedals isn't it.
  • 1 2
 @gkeele: Yes, just as in regular bikes... it goes as fast as you pedal.
  • 4 2
 Rode an Levo around a couple of weeks ago. If you like the feeling of pedalling downhill all the time, ebikes are for you. If you are not at all into any of the fitness aspects of MTB, ebikes are for you.

For me personally, spending minimum $6K for either of those characteristics is out of the question.
  • 2 0
 I disagree on the finess part if you want to work out on an ebike you can - but I am not saying that everybody has to ride an ebike. Sometimes I take my wife's Lapierre Overvolt for a spin and if I push it my average heart rate is the same when I'm training on my regular bike and I get just as tired. The only difference is that I finish the loop faster with the pedelec. Of course if you ride with max assist power that's different but you burn the battery quickly.
  • 4 0
 Miranda modularity and compatibility sound great, but the extreme part scares me.
  • 1 0
 I thought this technology was already available and called Raceface Cinch?
  • 1 0
 I know zero about business but I'm always surprised when little companies try to break into the drivetrain market. I love it when they do because it usually generates lots of cool stuff, but I can't help but think you'd need to make an enormous breakthrough of some kind to really "make it" with a new crankset.
  • 1 0
 its funny how shimano has made an electric motor but not bothered with a gear box. i knew they where not keen to let gearboxes take over from mech and cassettes even though its the next logical step. it would hurt their profits if they made something that didnt need to be replaced every year after all
  • 1 0
 The gearboxes will kick in properly In the next few years. Foam metals, glass metals, nano-tech.

Fk carbon fiber theres about to be done massive weight savings. With the nano and even biomechanical sciences taking form expect some really weird advances. Gearboxes 6-7x smaller and lighter at the very least. Hell we may even be using machines with intelligence and artificial blood powering artificial muscles that will turn your wheels before long.

Which reminds me of a great argument I had as a stoned teenager ..you could in theory grow a skeletal frame and have it powered by artificial ostrich legs.
'Humorous' example :p but I feel justified recently reading the science blogs Big Grin
  • 4 1
 @mike levy. is there a pb poll anywhere regarding opinion of ebikes? I would like to cast my vote please.
  • 1 1
 Man, I think that Miranda crank arm is a beautiful thing. Just awesome lines. The used-and-abused look is a really clever way of showing off a new product. Probably sharp contrast to everything else there, and speaks to the durability of the part.
  • 1 0
 It's not beat up. It is just very shiny. It's like the blue or white dress thing fro a few years ago
  • 3 0
 My first reaction was thinking that it's beat to hell, then I looked closer and it really is just all the lights reflecting off the shiny paint.
  • 1 0
 @Ride406orDie: I think you're right. I was looking at them on a tiny phone screen, but on closer inspection these are loafers.
  • 3 3
 yeah, I hear you... change and evolution is so scary to this demographic... Everyone should go back to turn dial phones and shut off your computer and go to the library or better yet ride from your house to trail and stop driving there...
  • 1 1
 Looks like Miranda has done an awful lot of real world testing on that new crank! My Turbine that I've been running since 2014 isn't that dinged up and rubbed through and I ride nearly everyday.
  • 1 0
 my bike has a motor its called the vastas medius and it runs on chicken wings and cheap beer
  • 1 0
 The only discipline of bike that could even possibly need a motor is a downhill bike. Nothing less.
  • 2 0
 When the battery dies it's just a heavy 50lb pig haha
  • 11 11
 Wahh Waaaah, e-bikes. Quit whinging. They exist, they are clearly going nowhere. Get over it and yourselves. Simple.
  • 10 2
 Folks here can't even get over the transition from 26 to 27.5
  • 2 0
 @Dustfarter: I cant cos I got my new bike a few years back before they kicked In properly and now I cant get fkn tires lol

Science still says they need 14% more input to accelerate so I'll dry my tears with that for a bit.
Besides I've got big feet, long crankarms for my long legs and my hiking boots on..cos nature.
I tried a 29r with a standard 170 and my toes kept clipping the front wheel and it felt too flexy. Big turnoff.
  • 1 0
 I wanted to check out Alex Rim's website but well it got hacked, wow
  • 2 0
 whats an e bike?
  • 3 0
 just a joke!
  • 1 0
 @baggyferret: You can't say that your in Europe (almost) and its full of ebikes :p cant see the wood for the ebikes if you believe some people.
  • 1 0
 @Enzyme: I've not seen one out on the trails! Flat batteries before they get that far, we safe Smile

This is a marketing masterpiece, lots of people are being paid lots of money to talk this rubbish up, some are falling for it but real mountain bikers can see right through it all! The bike makers have run out of ideas to make us spend our cash lol lol
  • 1 1
 no stop it







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