Archer Components' Wireless Electronic D1x Shifter - Review

May 8, 2018
by Mike Kazimer  
Archer Components review

Electronic shifting for road bikes has existed in various forms dating all the way back to the 1990s, but it's a much newer concept in the mountain bike world. After all, it was only four years ago that Shimano's XTR Di2 gruppo was announced, and although there have been rumors and photos floating around of an off-road version of SRAM's wireless eTap system, nothing's official yet. That means there's currently room in the marketplace for small upstarts looking to make their mark, and that's exactly what Archer Components are hoping to do with their D1x wireless electronic shifting system.
Archer D1x Shifter Details

• Matchmaker compatible remote shifter
• App-based setup via Bluetooth
• 1-year warranty
• Weight (shifter and remote): 235 grams
• Rechargeable Li-ion batteries (two in shifter, one in remote)
• MSRP: $389 USD
www.archercomponents.com

Roughly the size of a TV remote, the device eliminates the need for almost all cable and housing, except for the short length that runs from the unit to the rear derailleur. Other than that, it's fully wireless, communicating with the small thumb shifter via Bluetooth. Total weight of the shifter and remote, including batteries, is 235 grams, and it retails for $389 USD.

Archer Components shifter review
Archer Components shifter review

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Installation

Installation of the D1x is fairly straightforward, and while it does require a few extra steps compared to setting up a traditional cable and housing setup, it's simpler than getting a Shimano Di2 system up and running. Archer's instructions are clearly written, and the app is easy to use – even riders with only basic mechanical experience should be able to get everything functioning properly without too much hassle.

The first step is to remove that analog shifter and all the cable and housing attached to it – it's time to go (mostly) wireless. The next part of the process is to install the batteries, which is slightly annoying due to the fact that a 1.5mm Allen wrench is required to access them – a larger bolt or some sort of slide-on cover would be more convenient. The remote takes a rechargeable lithium-ion 10440 battery, and the shifting unit takes two 14500 lithium-ion batteries. Although the shifter batteries are the same size as regular alkaline AA batteries, Archer says that the amount of voltage is different between the two, and using AA batteries is strongly discouraged. Run time is claimed to be 30-hours in the normal mode, and 50+ in the low-power mode. That's not nearly as long as what you'll get with Shimano's Di2 system, but there's plenty of juice for multiple really long rides in a row, and it's easy to check the battery levels, either via the app or by clicking the power button on the shifter to see what color light is displayed (solid green = 50-100%, flashing green = 30-50%, solid red 15-30% and flashing red is less than 15%).

Once the batteries are in place, and the cable is installed into the shift unit, the remote and shifter are mounted to the frame. The remote is Matchmaker compatible, which allowed it to easily attach underneath the SRAM brake lever I was running. The shift unit sits underneath the chainstay, where it's attached by two plastic P-straps. With those straps snugged down the device felt secure, but I still used an additional thick zip-tie for a little extra security – the last thing I wanted was to somehow kick the whole unit into my spokes and end up with all sorts of issues to deal with. I also ended up putting a section of electrical tape over the on/off button – again, to prevent it from getting pulled out of place by my heel, something I discovered was a possibility during my first test ride.

Archer D1x shifter review
Archer D1x shifter review
Archer's app makes it possible to pick which gear the system with revert to if the battery dies, as well as select how many gears will be changed when the shift button is held down.

It's after the remote and shifter are tightened down and the cable is routed through the derailleur that Archer's app comes into play. The app is the final step, the part of the process where the number of speeds and the distance between each cog is fine-tuned to ensure consistent shifting with each button push.

The app has a number of clever features that help take care of some of the concerns that accompany running a battery-powered drivetrain. The question that comes up most often is, “What happens if the batteries die in the middle of a ride? During the setup process it's possible to pick which gear the shifter will shift to before giving up the ghost; that way you can pick a gear somewhere towards the easier side of the cassette and not need to push all the way home.


Archer D1x shifter review
Got juice? There are indicators for the battery level of both the shifter and remote.
Archer D1x shifter review
The app allows users to set exactly how much the derailleur moves between each gear.


It's also possible to adjust what happens when you hold the shift button down; it can be set to move the derailleur up to five cogs in either direction with a single extended push.

The fact the amount the derailleur moves between cogs can be customized opens up options that aren't possible with a traditional shifter. Theoretically, you could have a custom cassette with a super-tight cluster at the bottom, and much bigger jumps towards the larger climbing gears. The shifter is compatible with up to a 12-speed cassette, but if someone decides to create a 13-speed cassette Archer say they could easily update the app to accommodate that. Mixing-and-matching components from various manufacturers is also easier – the brand of derailleur and cassette isn't a factor with this system.


Archer
Archer Components shifter review
The communication between the handlebar-mounted remote and the shifter is wireless, but there is still a short piece of cable that's used to move the derailleur.


Performance

Once I had everything dialed in on the stand (I installed the device on a SRAM X01 drivetrain, with a 12-speed, 10-50 tooth cassette) it was time for some real-world testing. I tossed a couple spare batteries in my pack, just in case, and proceeded to start putting in the miles on the Archer-equipped drivetrain. On my very first ride I stopped part way through to do some fine-tuning, and had to laugh at myself when I pulled out my phone in order to adjust the shifting. I definitely prefer barrel adjusters to tapping on a touchscreen, but the adjustment didn't take long, and after that little trail side tweak the shifting was spot on.

It's also possible to perform micro-adjustments without a phone - a three second push of the shifter's power button will put it into adjustment mode, and then the remote can be used to set where the derailleur should sit. On the topic of analog vs. electronic, I also never really got used to needing to turn on the shifter before beginning a ride. More than once I started to pedal off, and then realized, "Crap, I forgot to turn on my shifter..."

It didn't take me too long to get used to the ergonomics of the remote, but shifting never felt quite as comfortable and intuitive as it does with SRAM or Shimano's current shifters. That's likely due in part to all the years I've spent using a different shifter shape, but having two identical buttons situated right next to each other did require more brain power to remember which one did what. Once the correct button was depressed, though, the derailleur shifted exactly the amount that I'd instructed it to during the setup process every single time.

Up and down shifts were quick and accurate, accompanied by the 'bzzzt' of the motor pulling on the cable, although the shift speed didn't feel quite as rapid as a fully cable-actuated setup. It's not a dramatic difference, and I never missed a shift or found myself in the wrong gear because of the delay, but for super fast shifting in either direction the old-school way still reigns supreme.

The shifter saw plenty of wet conditions during testing, but it survived all of the puddle dunkings and mud baths that I put it through. As I mentioned earlier, I did kick the rubber on/off switch cover off with my heel, and ended up putting electrical tape over it to help prevent that from happening again. Ideally, that button would be in a different location, preferably further towards the rear of the device.


Pinkbike's Take
bigquotesI like the fact that a US company managed to get a wireless electronic shifter out on the market before the big guys, even if it is a little rough around the edges. Personally, the fewer electronic gadgets on my bike the better, so I won't be making the switch, but I can imagine that there are plenty of garage tinkerers that will have a field day coming up with all kinds of wild drivetrain combinations thanks to this device. For the rest of us, the tried-and-true fully cable actuated shifter / derailleur combo is still unmatched when it comes to simplicity and price vs. performance. Mike Kazimer









267 Comments

  • + 228
 AT LAST!!! All the inconvenience of electronic and cable shifting combined into one neat package.
  • + 11
 And that for not quite 400$!!
  • + 17
 And you get the added bonus of looking for the rear module on the trail once it rips of the chain stay!
All for the low low price of $389 or $19.99 for 40 months!
  • + 56
 @Mt-Biker-E: either that’s a real crappy interest rate or you better check your math there buddy
  • + 16
 @bender-oz or it’s an electronic shifter that is compatible with every single rear derailleur in existence (sans Di2). No love for backwards compatibility?
  • + 1
 lol
  • + 11
 @speed10: great point.

Someone PLEASE put this on an old bike with an M700 DeoreXt first Gen derraileur!

like a moots mountaineer from the '80's with a 1x electronic drivetrain ... but period correct derraileur.

If someone does that post it for our entertainment!
  • + 3
 Would be great if the article pointed out the basic potential advantages of electronic shifting. For example, Di2 = faster shifts, shifting under load, and more customizable levers vs. cable shifters.
  • + 5
 I'm trying to watch porn while riding but my stupid bike isn't getting a signal.
  • + 4
 @filmdrew:

- how much faster and does it matter?
- how is shifting under load different here than with a cable? i think it's mostly about rider timing cadence
- customizable levers definitely! fantastic for riders limited thumb movement, other odd situations...and TT bikes lol. limited benefit for average joe but definitely one of the most compelling reasons for e-shifting when the situation call for it.
  • + 1
 @fecalmaster: can it do your seatpost Smile
  • + 3
 I've always felt a need for having a shifter on my helmet. Smack left side of head for downshift. Smack right side of helmet for upshift. Genious!
  • + 2
 If only we could buy skills instead of all this thought out trial and error.
  • + 1
 @dontcoast:
-it's essentially the same speed gear to gear as mechanical shifting.
-On a 12 speed casette it's crisp and precise because everything is so closely spaced
-Shifting effortless under all conditions with no perceptable difference when shifting under load unless you are mashing all of the way across your casette at like 20rpm...in which case it's the sound of the chain choking it's way across the casette that gets at your soul
  • + 2
 @speed10: NAILED IT!
  • + 2
 @Mt-Biker-E: It is secured fast -- if you crash and it rips off your chain stay you are going to be looking for body parts in addition to your dismembered bike! Haha!
  • + 2
 @filmdrew: I have never understood the speed factor I have a little experience first hand riding electronic shifting but it always felt like it was slower I think it might help people who don’t know how to shift. On the shifting under load no fuc* that your not supposed to do it that is bad form/planning it is a fundamental part of shifting. You have to train your body to lighten on the shift and to shift at the right time. I believe getting those two things timed perfectly with an electric shifter is not the same as a mechanical shifter. And finally I ask this every time e shifting pops up never get a good answer. What is the cervo lifespand of one of these how many cycles before the motor burns out?
  • + 1
 @loganflores: the servo's have been tested past 100,000 cycles. For applications like this the duty cycle is very low, and unless you are stalling the system repeatedly the current is fairly low as well. The motors use carbon brushes a very long life under standard duty conditions.
  • + 1
 @Archer-Brandon: thanks for the honest answer for the record I think what your doing as a small company is awesome I’m not fond of e shifting personaly but I think it’s awesome for people who like it or people who need it. I work with solenoids compressors regulators pressure switches plc’s all part of the machine we build. It’s a mix of mechanical electrical and air parts everything has its run cycle and is worn out and repaired or replaced as needed I can rebuild a regulator for a few bucks but a burnt 150$ solenoid is scrap metal. Same with a pump. I am impressed by your number at 200 shifts a week that’s about ten years is there any mechanical slowdown over the years as in does it shift slower after four years?
  • + 1
 @SCCC120:
i was making fun of infomercials, its called humor Wink
  • + 1
 @Archer-Brandon: so you guys are using an ordinary DC motor? You then also need position sensors to ensure correct shifting rates and all? Why not go with a stepper motor? I thought it would be the ideal choice for this application. Could you perhaps elaborate on the design a bit more? I was thinking a simple stepper motor with a ball screw rod to make the motion linear would be the easiest solution for a system like this.

Just out of curiosity, how hard would it be to adapt your system to a Pinion box? And would your system work with a top normal derailleur (about 10 years ago Shimano had reverse shifting systems). The second question is a "for the lulz" style of a question, but I'm genuinely interested about the Pinion.
  • + 1
 It might beat the inconvenience of drag in the cables constantly making upshifts and or downshifts shaky at best! So no one here rides their bikes enough where they inevitably have shifting problems due to kinks, dirt and drag in their many feet long of cable and housings?
  • + 118
 could be usefull to shift internal gears systems. like Pinion, instead of the gripshifter
  • + 28
 That's the review I want to see!
  • + 16
 Now we’re talking
  • + 5
 Pinion uses 2 cables, thus the reason for the gripshift in the first place.
  • + 4
 that could be one and only reason for me to ride electronic shifting
  • + 7
 Since it would be controlling a BB mounted gearbox, you could move the control module off the chainstay and bolt it to the underside of the downtube, where the unusable bottle mounts always are. Another win.
  • + 3
 Pinion e-shifter. Make it happen!
  • + 3
 @groghunter: Still easily overcome with a setup like this. I'd way rather have two of these devices inside my downtube than have one grip shifter on the handlebar.
  • + 1
 @groghunter: Then you just need two of these guys.
  • + 3
 @groghunter: Rohloff also uses two cables, but they have recently introduced electronic shifting (and there are other ways to shift that internal geared hub too) so I'd expect that should be doable with Pinion too. Actually, considering the number of people viewing that current grip shift as the main reason to not go for Pinion, I'd expect them to be working on a solution. Alternatively of course, there is always Effigear (which does work with trigger shifters).
  • + 5
 @vinay: you guys do realize that I can conceptualize too, right? Look back in my posting history, you'll see me actually making this exact point about pinion.

My point was that you can't just plug a Archer unit into a pinion, today, & that pinion uses 2 cables.

Heck, pinion is probably the drivetrain most suited to going electric, as you could integrate a stepper and battery directly into the housing.
  • + 1
 @groghunter: they are already working on it
  • + 1
 @groghunter: you mean electric shifting? I agree. Pull the shifting axle (the one with the sun gear) out a bit, put a worm gear on it and mount a stepper with a worm perpendicularly. Easy peasy.

Now for some heresy, a pinion would also be ideal for an ebike drive train. Same thing, put a motor in a bigger casing and connect it to the output axle, job done. Half the stuff you need for an ebike (one way clutch, mounting plate on the frame, etc) is already there and is widespread (mounting plate). It could actually be made to be rettofittabla to existing bikes. But Pinion's electric strategy is to have hub motors...
  • + 53
 It's cool to see creative new solutions like this one. Not for me, but it's pretty neat. Bikes just keep on getting better
  • + 28
 solution to a non-existent problem that ends up making things more complicated, expensive and heavier than before...
  • + 31
 @trillot:
so what? its an option, no one is taking away your cables
and there are pros and cons for both system, pick whatever suits you better
  • - 52
flag casman86 (May 8, 2018 at 2:57) (Below Threshold)
 @Asmodai: Sad that the bike industry keeps pushing battery garbage that nobody wants. Hopefully these companies go out of business.
  • + 9
 @trillot: This iteration looks a bit awkward, but its a step in the right direction. The compatibility and crazy adjustability (via a freakin app) is awesome. The fact that its from a small potatoes company and not SRAM/Shimano is even better.
  • + 10
 @casman86: woah easy, my son...easy
  • + 1
 Copy and paste this comment for Boost, e-bikes, etc. just kidding
  • + 7
 @trillot: I think this allows you to run a combination of different speeds between derailleur and cassette - like a 10 speed derailleur on an 11 speed cassette. That does solve a problem if you are upgrading your drivetrain slowly or just trying to get a bigger range.
  • + 8
 @petehvid: I don't think you would be upgrading your drivetrain slowly if you fork out 400 for a wireless shifter. Just saying......I get the idea, but if you can afford a 400 dollar shifter, I think you can afford a 120 dollar cassette, or just buy a whole xt drivetrain for that price.
  • + 1
 oh thats a slippery slop just like the range extender cog stuff....a lot has to do with upper pulley wheel and its ability to align the chain onto these dinner plates when it is inches(or cm) away....i will say this if done properly you are correct about this opening new doors for rear ders....such as using an xshifter system(btw copycat much archer?) with a campy record ti/carbon rear der on a commuter bike to make a 5 speed...miche makes individual cogs in many sizes to make your own cassette.... we also used miche and dura ace 8speed with an xshifter to frankenbike an 11 speed pawn shop special
  • + 7
 @Asmodai: TOTALLY. The idea here is control. Everyone is hung up on wireless/cable/blahblahblah...digital control. From a purely engineering standpoint robotics=better for repeated tasks.
  • - 2
 @trillot: says the guy with a dropperpost..eyesroll..
  • + 4
 @trillot: our goal is/was not to solve a non-existent problem as you state but rather to enhance what is already very good! ...we agree that current mechanical systems are NOT a problem...
  • + 4
 @BobbyLite: we have chosen to start the train on the tracks with an MVP (startup parlance -- haha) and will be iterating/optimizing as things continue to move. We are also working on developing a licensable solution to dropper seat post manufacturers for OEM applications.
  • + 37
 This is a gateway device, next thing you know, you’ll be riding a ebike, or standing next to one while it charges at a trail side outlet.
  • + 13
 I'm just picturing a trailhead with a bunch of those Tesla charging stations and like a Illy coffee bar or something.
  • + 27
 Im worried about this app telling facebook how much I use my granny gear. Last thing I want is for them to mock me with 50t dinner plate advertisements..
  • + 1
 Sam Pilgram is just ahead of the power curve.... Get it? I'll show myself out.
  • + 4
 @BobbyLite: We are worried about that too my friend.
  • + 0
 @BobbyLite: you should try a 50t, it's awesome! (if you prefer to ride at a higher cadence)
  • + 15
 It’s pretty sad that some guy in a garage can come out with 12 speed, wireless electronic shifting before Shimano. It has a better app than Shimano’s too.

It’s a little rough around the edges, but I have to salute this guy. Price isn’t absurd either.

The fact that he could pull this off with limited resources shows how complacent Shimano has become. They should have had fully dialed 12 speed, wireless electronic shifting at the XT level out two years ago. Instead we are at least 18 months away from mechanical XT 12 speed.

What would be great is a bigger company buying this guy and putting some money in to refine it. This could be polished in to something really cool.
  • + 27
 Are you sure about that? I'll explain why it's not sad and that Shimano isn't complacent.

Shimano isn't always a company that desires to be first but to try and bring something to the market that is tried and true with enough research and development to back it up. Shimano and a lot of other companies follow this exact rule of thought.

Sure, being the first is great but when it comes to someone who doesn't have all the resources and money like the bigger companies out there, can make the chances of the device or software fail at a greater rate. Also be prepared if you're the first and you didn't work out all the kinks then don't be surprised when some other company takes your idea fixes the problems and in turn makes it 10x better, essentially stealing your profits.

Shimano, has their own 12 speed they just haven't released it because they want to make it perfect and better (at least that is their goal)

What this guy has done on his own DEFINITELY deserves credit but at the same time you shouldn't knock Shimano or any other company as you don't know what they are doing and or building behind the scenes that the public isn't aware of.
  • + 7
 There's a little thing in the business world called market research. Perhaps Shimano's market research team has determined that there is not a big enough market for an electronic shifter to make it economically feasible.
  • + 2
 @LiquidSpin: exactly, Shimano could put out a device like this, easily, but they won’t because they have no interest in selling something this unrefined to the general public.
  • + 6
 @sino428: Which is why Shimano makes quality stuff and still isn't hurting from SRAM. Their Di2 technology is being used by a lot of pros and amateurs alike and I still haven't heard a ton of people complaining about it. A prime example of how to release something into the market.

Shimano's reputation goes up and they will hopefully make a profit.
  • + 1
 @huntstyle: the same shimano that told everybody that they should be shifting with the brake lever?
  • + 4
 @huntstyle: exactly. that's why they are still producing front derailleurs and MTB triple chainsets by the millions even though pinkbike would have us thinking nobody uses these any more Smile

Also, their product dev cycle is approx 3-4 years so right now they are trying to work out what will be the market demand in 2022. The enthusiast engineer in the garage can start now and be in prototype phase in 3 months, for a behemoth like Shimano/Sram it is impossible.
  • + 2
 @wibblywobbly I totally agree..... Shimano doesn't even give a single shit that their brakes can't feel the same on quick repeated pulls, and have been like that for years now.
  • + 2
 @sino428: you mean like the XT brakes that have consistently had bite point issues for the last three years?
  • + 1
 @LiquidSpin: you really drink the Shimano Kool Aid. All of what you say makes sense and is in theory correct, but the reality is Shimano has been putting out junk brakes for three years and SRAM has fully dialed 12 speed at multiple price points. From GX to XX1 they have all proven to be reliable and market demand for 12 speed continues to be strong.

If Shimano was thinking SRAM was going to botch the launch of 12 speed, they thought wrong. Meanwhile, their product is growing old and for a company who's expertise is metal work, they still can't match SRAM's cassettes.
  • + 4
 @wibblywobbly: Brakes a lot of times are open to rider opinion. Different strokes for different folks. I imagine shimano XT's are the number one selling brake due to quality and price point. I mean didn't sram have their whole guide RS recall problem?

Sram XX1 stuff is awesome but their GX stuff is crap. It just feels like crap. Shimano's XT is cheaper and quality is better but requires a lot more time to dial in the shifting at least for me. Definitely they need to catch up on that point.

This solution is cool. And who knows it might be a great fit being compatible with all current der. But I imagine not too many people are going to flock to it. Wireless shifting works great for road. Combine more frequent crashing, bashing rocks, added weight etc, going wireless on a mountain bike definitely has a lot more cons than pros.
  • + 4
 @packfill: ever heard of logical fallacy?
  • + 2
 @LiquidSpin: I think something more like this is what Di2 should have been. Shimano makes good stuff and I have been running exclusively XT and XTR shifters and derailleurs for decades, but they ain't perfect. Some of their innovations flop, or are just unnecessarily complicated. I would love a wireless Shimano group, but I have never even considered Di2. I can only imagine what Shimano could have done with this concept with their resources. Di2 performs well but it's a mess hardware-wise.
  • + 3
 @Airfreak:

GX eagle feels pretty damn great IMO. GX 11 was pretty mediocre.

I'll give you that the XT shifter feels subjectively better and I like the multi-upshift, and XT casette prices, but GX12 hasn't given me any issues so far.
  • + 2
 @dontcoast: I was speaking to the GX 11. Ill have to check out the GX Eagle then. Price is a big motivating factor for me which is why I normally stick to shimano for the price/quality.
  • + 5
 @wibblywobbly: My XT brakes work perfectly.
  • + 1
 @VonFalkenhausen: this was my original point. Imagine if someone put some money behind this? Clean up the ergonomics and the design. Better battery life and sealing. If this was an e13 or Race Face product all of a sudden there is some marketing money behind it people have more confidence in the product. Maybe it sells for 299$ (or 259$ on Jenson) and it starts to catch on. Who knows, maybe YT starts putting it on one of their builds.
  • + 0
 @LiquidSpin:

> Shimano isn't always a company that desires to be first but to try and bring something to the market that is tried and true with enough research and development to back it up.

Like those brake levers that moved up and down to shift, and those rapid rise derailleurs that operated in reverse, those 1x chainrings that didn't work at all, or the current gen XT brakes with the random bite point, and don't forget those amazing 450 gram "wide range" cassettes. Tried and true, no need to innovate here.
  • - 3
 @packfill:
Ya those idiots.
Shimano-fisherman
Sram-mountain bikers
  • + 1
 @Airfreak:

sunrace 12sp cassette, gx12 shifter and derraileur is a cheap combo if you don't care about the top end gear or weight

that said, shimano 11 with a sunrace is a great way to go in that sense too.

worth test riding gx12; you may well still stick to shimano but it's much better than gx11
  • - 2
 @wibblywobbly: you my friend are a genius! No really, sarcasm noted but we are seeing eye to eye... ????
  • + 1
 @Archer-Brandon: Shimano comments aside, I'm a believer in what you are doing and wish you nothing but success.
  • + 0
 Well said,man!
  • + 1
 @Airfreak: dialing in XT takes about three minutes. Dialing in GX Eagle takes about three minutes. They're all so good, who can tell the difference. The only finicky drivetrain I've ever adjusted is a Sram Apex 10sp shifter mixed with a GX 10sp derailleur. I have SRAM 10sp, SRAM 9sp and XT and Ultegra 11sp on my bikes and all of them are equally as durable and adjustment free. My Shimano 11sp bikes have the longest lasting parts. But my SRAM bikes are pretty durable.
Oh, and I have a SRAM 1170 11-36 on my Ultegra 8000 GS derailleur mixed with the non-series 11sp road hydro brifters. That bike shifts perfectly every time.
  • + 1
 Yeah I really wish Shimano had an annoyingly unreliable, finicky and shit feeling drive train like eagle.
No thanks, 11 speed is more than enough and gives nice cadence steps on an 11-46 (sunrace).
  • + 2
 @sino428: Mine don't. So that evens out yours :-)
  • + 1
 @wibblywobbly: Gah--I was actually saying that WE ARE seeing eye to eye! You made some good points in your discussion above that generated some good dialogue on our end! Thx-Brandon
  • - 2
 Im glad DI isnt wireless. That technology is pointless on an integrated system. Period. Imagine a mechanical/electric system on a jet controlled wirelessly. Wouldn't ever happen, because not only does it lack risk mitigation but it also adds unnecessary complexity and more weight and more batteries to tend to. Nothing out there in the real world uses wireless. Just this industry. Because its full of suckers.

- dude whos developed multiple mil defence systems.
  • + 0
 @Bahh: don't forget to add the TiN process that weakens the chain (high disposition temps caused fractures at the pin connection and affects hard chrome).
  • + 1
 @Airfreak: different strokes...unless you have XT brakes with a free stroke "adjustment"
  • + 1
 @atrokz: Well sure wireless is for suckers, look at how good all those tethered drones are working. But you probably developed all of them, as a dude who has developed multiple military defence systems.
  • + 0
 @atrokz:
>Nothing out there in the real world uses wireless. Just this industry.

lol, thats not true
wireless is successfully used in many industries
  • + 1
 @atrokz: We are talking bikes. not jets and missiles bru!
  • + 1
 @atrokz: You clearly don't know what you're talking about and are just trying to regurgitate some BS that someone else told you. 1st, it is deposition, not disposition; you deposit the metal coating. 2nd, every manufacturing process has its pros and cons and can be done correctly on not. TiN coatings are about improving surface hardness, not tensile strength. A TiN coating on a chain can be an improvement if done correctly, depending on the end goals.
  • + 1
 @Asmodai: I mean within its own system. It doesn't. We aren't talking the vapid tech industry with things lile backpacks.
  • - 1
 @robw515: actually I do. As an aerospace mfg engineer I actually hold legal authority over special process specifications on both an eng level and mrb level. You arw correct in the word. I typed that out on my phone and it was miss corrected. Sorry about that.

Now, lets put you in your place. TiN is deposited onto the full assembly. Not individual components. This means the assembly sees elevate temperatures around 900degF. This temperate causes uneven growth of components due to thermal expansion and in the eagle chains inspected, we found micro. Fractures. TiN is also pourus unlike DLC (which stood up to our internal astm b117 testing. Which TiN could not) which means its not a rust protective layer. The elevated temps also affect hard chrome as you can go review this online as well. Plenty of articles on elevated temps and chrome and we did see a greenish hue on the pins on TiN coated chains.

I am more of an expert on this process than just about everyone at sram. Feel free to msg me to see a CV and embarrass yourself further.
  • - 1
 @robw515: I also never said it was for tensile strength you goof. Haha. Also, the coatings are actually used in the cutting industry for multiple reasons. Friction coefficient and hardness are to of them. We dont even use TiN much anymore anyway. AlCrN. TiAlN. TiSlN. Etc. These are more modern, simply better coatings used. I used these almost daily on the aerospace and automotive dies I made myself when I was a certified tool and die maker. I have close relationships with companies like Sputtek for developing both their PVD and CVD processes as well as things like HVOF. I also find it comical you said deposit the "metal"coating. Its not metal at that point bud. You clearly dont know shit ab out this. Sit down.
  • + 0
 @Archer-Brandon: fair enough and good response. Would you consider a wired system at some point?
  • + 0
 @VonFalkenhausen: nothing in that drone connects to itself wirelessly. Sit down.
  • + 1
 @atrokz: Whoa, calm down you self-absorbed psychopath. You're right about one thing, TiN is a ceramic, not a metal, I mispoke. While you didn't specifically mention tensile strength, the micro fractures that you've brought up twice now would be a POSSIBLE negative effect of a TiN deposition process that would most notably effect the chain's final tensile strength. I didn't completely draw out that thought process in my earlier comment because I thought such an excellent engineer as yourself would be able to connect those dots. What you're definitely wrong about is how your initial sarcastic comment regarding TiN coatings on chains clearly implied the blanket notion that using a TiN coating on a chain will always make it inferior due to manufacturing process side effects. That is just not true... I'm amazed how clearly one the world's (or maybe just Canada's, lol) "greatest miliary manufacturing engineers" has so much free time to make comments on Pinkbike, that in the end probably won't matter at all.
  • + 0
 @robw515: haha. Psychopath? Calm down... Totally unnecessary.

It will always create issues if its done as an assembly when hard chrome is present. The uneven thermal expansion makes sure of that as does chromes inability to deal with elevated temps. DLC is a coating that would work better as its disposition temps are low enough to be deposited onto aluminum substrate. Im just stating what I know. I looked at it under 30x microscope and with a niton XL5 to see this and out of curiosity on material. I love bikes. I was involved in this industry for a time. I just see the nonsense being sold as fact and know better. Because its my wheelhouse. I wasn't looking to efight some random dude who said I dont know anything. When the opposite is true. Have a good day. Weather is great and we have bikes. No hard feelings towards your verbal assault. We all say dumb shit sometimes. I know I did.
  • + 2
 @atrokz: Everything you say is BS. This is a bicycle shifting system, not a flight control system that requires redundancies with a high level of reliability. A system that controls the rear derailleur of a MTB clearly has different functional requirements and different priorities than aerospace controls. You're just a bad engineer because you are clearly making the biggest rookie engineering mistake of all, which is trying to design a product or system without FIRST understanding the actual requirements and priorities of that system. Not everything in this world has the same requirements as the projects that you've worked on, and your career has clearly pigeon-holed your thought process, or maybe you've always just been a narrow-minded person... Just this industy? You're so wrong. My TV has a wireless remote despite that I always control it from within the same room. My computer has a wirelss keyboard and mouse despite that they sit only 2 feet from the computer tower. My household internet is entirely wireless despite that I never am more than 30 feet from my modem. My phone connects to my car stereo via bluetooth even though I always set my phone in the center console only 1 foot from the car's stereo. My home security cameras are wireless even though they are bolted to the same structure (my house) as the central hub. People have been making wireless systems for decades for the purpose of convenience and neatness, and while wireless systemes are generally less reliable, reliability isn't always the highest priority for a product... Sit down
  • + 0
 @robw515: way to not only illustrate more ignorance, but to double down on it.

First off, you comically tried to call me out about TiN on chains because of a typo. Which was put to rest, lets say. I defended my position and noted why this is something I understand. if you take offense to that, suck it up. You were wrong. I can empirically prove the point. We chased the issue because a dude here broke two eagle chains in a row quite quick. curiosity made me look into it. Simple as that.

Now you're jumping on another topic (fitting, if one argument fails, attack the other. a clear sign of a failed argument). Sure, wireless "works" but the actual rookie mistake in engineering is making things more complicated. for no benefit. this adds a transmitter, receiver, and another battery. It also adds a wireless signal that can be hacked (bluetooth) or blanket jammed (Etap). Sure, I'm probably over thinking it, but again, you missed the point with your examples. Things do connect to eachother wirelessly, but a better comparision would be your computer using a wireless signal to attach the HD to the MB. Or a car using wireless signal to activate the transmission. Why? It would be a lot easier to assemble a car if it was that way, but guess what, it's not ideal. A wireless remote is ideal. A wireless bluetooth signal for your phone to your car is ideal. these are connecting two separate electronic systems. Now imagine your steering wheel feeds a wireless signal to your electric rack. Would be pointless right? Greater risk of failure.

Maybe I'm jaded, but I see error in trying to make bikes wireless just so a tiny 20g wire can be eliminated. It seems simpler to the consumer, but in reality is more complex and more open to failure. I don't think this is ideal, and I am allowed to voice my opinion on it. It's not BS, its based in reality and that's what I think.

There is no need to name call or shit on me. You called me out, got my back up, and here we are. whats silly is you're making rash ignorant comments, then filling the rest with an actual discussion. Do you want to discuss this, or just yell at eachother?

Here's a chair, sit down Razz
  • + 1
 @atrokz: I think your biggest blanket statement "nothing in the real world uses wireless" is very shortsighted and in general your comments with a more "military/aerospace" approach is what really differs from actual real "public" world. This coming from someone who works on a lot of wireless things and makes a living doing it. The military takes a completely different approach to building things than the public (especially in flight). This wireless shifter is a terrible comparison to that of a jet plane. Reliability is the utmost importance in a jet plane and cost is an insignificant factor. But take a look at electric cars, where cost is more a factor. You will start seeing wireless integrated into them for example the monitoring of batteries instead of trying to route heavy cable due to space constraints, this not only reduces cost because the cables are more expensive but also weight. That is why mechanical engineers and electrical engineers work together to produce products that meet certain metrics that influence the way things are done.

"Ideal" depends on a lot of things. Why not just connect your phone with a cable to your car stereo? It not only will charge your phone but will be more reliable streaming audio. That sure seems like an ideal situation. I think the word convenience works with a lot of marketable items. It is more convenient to have BT on your phone, not taking out your keys etc. Look at push button starts, added complexity but very convenient not having to take your keys out of your pocket. Everyone is all about convenience these days and engineering has gone towards that even if it adds complexity and greatens the risk of failure. This wireless shifter is no different. It is convenient because you don't have to deal with the cable, it becoming stretched and your shifting screwing up etc.

You may deem this "upgrade" completely unnecessary but someone will think its cool and will buy it. That is the beauty of engineering, not bashing someone who is trying to think out of the box. Of course the added complexity of adding a wireless shifter to a bike has a lot more negatives than positives. The positives can be less tabs/internal routing on bikes-->lower cost of bike frames, more precise/easier to dial in shifting, wear of a mechanical cable vs no wear(longevity), etc. The negatives of course are reliability, cost, weight etc. That is why we live in a free market and people have the options to choose what they want and of course have their own opinions.
  • + 1
 @atrokz: i dont want rear mech cables, the ideal solution is wireless shifter
  • + 0
 @Airfreak: good points although battery monitoring is different than shifting gears. But your post change my perspective in terms of why companies may do it. I don't see value in it where performance or reliability is concerned, so maybe I see it differently then some. I would love to see frame manufacturers come up with a pre wired frame with an integral battery around the bb area, with ports at headtube and nessesary junctions. To me that would be evolution.

And I agree. Just saying my pc. I like the idea. I would just like a wire.
  • + 0
 @Asmodai: this has both.
  • + 1
 @atrokz: there are no cables going from handlebar through the frame

Also i was talking in general not necessarily about this product
  • + 1
 @Asmodai: I think atrokz means the cable going to the rear der. To use the typical standard rear mech it uses a shifting cable.

In a real wireless/wired system it should use an electrical cable to adjust the rear mech. This method uses the normal cable because it is universal for all current rear mechs.
  • + 1
 Everyone see Ninos Etap failure?

Point proven.
  • + 1
 @atrokz: Guess who won?
  • + 1
 @LiquidSpin: good for him. Product still failed in a race. Point still proven.
  • + 1
 @atrokz: Point not proven. I'll explain because I don't think you're thinking it all the way through.

Mechanical failures happen even with non-electronic parts. I've seen countless races where a failure occurs. Have you?

the SRAM e-tap for MTB is not available yet to consumers...that means it's still in prototype stage although they still need to improve.

Your point is like saying:

"Well my wireless router failed on me...I guess we should ALL go back to plugging in our computers with an ethernet cable"

or

"Well, my cell phone doesn't work...we should end all cell phones and go back to using corded telephones"

Like I said before: Technology will move forward with or without you.
  • + 1
 @LiquidSpin: actually it is proven. A failure is a failure any way you look at it. Trying to mitigate that doesn't change anything. The tech is already on their road bikes. It isnt far off and a fail is a fail. Period.

Comparing a performance bike part used in areas where lots of interference exists, to an in house router is comical.
  • + 1
 @LiquidSpin: also the technology already exsits. This is nothing new and the tech has been used for well over teo decades in other applications. Hence having my position. Im not changing it. Feel free to buy what you want. Its your money. But dont pretend like wireless is a fail proof solution. Thats absurd and not thinking it through. Adding several more things to fail and opening up a mechanical system to hacking or jamming goes against what I believe is best for racing. The consumer is different. We dont run airlines shifting anymore. Some things just aren't a great solution.
  • + 1
 @atrokz: You're missing my point and no my comparison is not comical. I'm sorry you can't understand that. Really I am.

You're in denial if you believe that bikes that don't come equipped with electronics is fail proof. As I mentioned before mechanical bike components can fail. They have, just go to any bike shop and ask them "Has anyone ever returned a bike component because it failed?"

I never said anything about wireless being fail proof. This is something you fabricated in your head. At this point you'll never get my point, and that's sad.

Your lack of understanding electronics vs mechanical makes you a bit of a hypocrite.
  • + 1
 @LiquidSpin: trust me Im not missing your point. You see it as inovation. I see it as another sucker born. I see actual mechanial flaws with thr systems and an added point of failure (well. Two added points). Your posts are also agressive and frankly, ignorant. Im glad there are choices and that innovation happens, but Im allowed to play devils advocate and point out issues like we just saw. Youre pointing out nothing I dont already know, and your posts arent changing the valid areas of concern. You're just saying hyperbolic fluff and aren't even forming a technical argument. It shows you dont know much about this.

Obviously mechanical things fail. Now read this because you seem to be missing the point: the systems are the same you're just removing something that rarely fails (a wire that can be tucked away) and adding several more things that can fail just as easy as well as be affected by outside influence. If you dont get why that concerns me, you aren't at a level to have resonable discourse on this topic.

Everyone is allowed an opinion. Mine just happens to be different than yours. Theres a reason some won't go wireless and some will. Theres a reason brands try to differentiate themselves. Theres a reason nino stuck to 27.5 until a 29 bike worked for him. Grow up, get an education and realise we are allowed to see progress differently.
  • + 1
 @atrokz: Nope you missed my point. Calling you a hypocrite isn't being aggressive it's actually true.

You wrote:
"Obviously mechanical things fail. Now read this because you seem to be missing the point: the systems are the same you're just removing something that rarely fails"

How long has the industry been polishing up on say the drive train on a bike for? Now compare that to electronic drivetrains.

The only thing I will agree with you in regards to this is yes everyone is entitled to their own opinions and no one on here is telling you where to spend your money but clearly from your previous posts you seem to have opinions that contradict how the bike has evolved over the years. Also, I'm entitled to my own opinion right? So what's your point? My opinion is you can't take other peoples criticism that well. Then start calling them "ignorant"

Wanna be real? Go get yourself a velocipede and sell your bike. Because EVERYTHING on your damn bike is innovation and yeah you just made yourself into "another sucker born"
  • + 1
 @LiquidSpin: naw dude. You're out of your element here if you dont get that pointing out potential flaws is an argument and point in itself. In fact by pointing this out it got angry people like you telling me Im wrong but failing to make an argument to the contrary. You failed at that. Big time.

If this was a board room team meeting for development of a product these things would generally be discussed and banterer. Just saying Im wrong because I see actual flaws and increased failure points doesnt give you a point other than being a dick on PB like buddy up there who jumped on me for calling the TiN application incorrect.

Welcome to PB.
  • + 1
 @LiquidSpin: I also never said I had a problem with an electronic drivetrain. You just proved You dont know whats being discussed here. I love innovation and product development. Ive been doing it for a while now hence playing devils advocate and saying I have issue with jumping to wireless for x y and z reasons. Smart people will point out WHY it works instead of just telling me Im wrong and brining up wifi..... Lol
  • + 14
 This is like a $5000 flat screen TV. What kind of whacko would buy that? I’ll stick to my cathode ray tubes thank you very much. #CRT4LIFE
  • + 9
 Who else was trying to move the button press delay bar?
  • + 4
 To all the those who say if it ain't broke, don't fix it, or this is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist, people have said and continue to say the same about: Carburetors, OBDII, anti kickback guards on chainsaws, seat belts, motorcycle helmets, bicycle helmets, front derailleurs, 1x, rear suspension, traction control, ABS etc. etc. etc.

Innovation is great! If you don't want it, don't buy it!
  • + 6
 £288 to get rid of a problem that doesn't exist? Nah I'll keep buying 10 gear cables at a time from eBay for £5 and change them out from time to time.
  • + 3
 I have the D1x on my Kona Process 111 matched to a Eagle GX drivetrain. Once I got it set up, has been flawless so far.
Couple of things I learned thusfar:
1) Be sure to insert batteries in correct direction. Did that incorrectly and burned out controller board. Archer replaced the unit overnight
2) When indexing the gears, I found it best to determine the distance that the bike shifts to the gears above and below it, then set it dead center of that. First time I set it up, it was great on the bike stand, but was all over the place on the trail. Realized I had set shift points to the point where it JUST shifted to the gear.
3) I've been running mine now for 3 months...now I'm not an every day biker, but I've been out a dozen times or so and still have not had to change the batteries on it, so it does last quite well.
4) Archer customer service is A+. When I made the mistake of putting batteries in backwards, I e-mailed them because the unit wouldn't turn on. I had an e-mail within 20 minutes responding to mine, and within 45 mins (after a couple of back and forth e-mails to debug the issue), was already sent an e-mail indicating the replacement was being overnighted to me.
Love the D1x so far. Hoping it lasts for a good long while.
  • + 1
 I hope you were the beta tester that caused some hardware changes (diodes and stuff like that) to prevent burning out boards again.
  • + 1
 I think I was. Felt like a total dummy when I did it.
That being said as I disassemble my 2016 Kona Process 111DL to part out and build my Niner RIP 9 frame that arrives Friday, I’m going back to traditional Eagle shifter. I just miss the old school click.
So, if anyone interested in a d1x, let me know!
@Primoz:
  • + 2
 It's a cool "gadget" and the folks that engineered it should be proud that it works well it seems. That being said i have no interest in it whatsoever. It's a complicated product to solve a problem I don't have. It solves a problem for people who don't want to have a cable from their handlebar to the chainstay I guess? I just see it as a headache and extra weight.
  • + 2
 At the risk of being "that guy": Existing cable-actuated, indexed shifting systems are not analog, they are actually digital. The shifter defines discrete shift points; this discrete nature is the definition of digital (as opposed to analog), not whether it is electronically controlled. Digital vs. analog, and electronic vs. mechanical, are two independent variables.

The only true analog shifters are the old pre-indexed "friction" shifters, where the user/rider has to adjust each gear position by hand along a continuous spectrum.
  • + 1
 So explain what exactly an automatic watch is.. Digital?
  • + 2
 Potato Potatoe....lets call it an electronically controlled shifter...which is also digital!
  • + 1
 @atrokz: It could be either.
  • + 1
 BLE modules and arduinos are so cheap nowadays that I am tempted to do the same kind of device for really much less. Nordic RF chips consume pretty much nothing and last forever. You can get the chips for a dollar, after you have to find a way to couple a small engine to trigger the cable.
  • + 1
 What's the point... One less cable? I am going to have my 2 hydraulic lines for brakes anyways...

I guess I could see merit for more precise shifting... Though I wouldn't want the potential of a dead battery.

Not for this average smo anyways
  • + 1
 Be fun sneaky hack into your mates mech mid ride. But that's as far as my interest goes. A heavy expensive complicated solution to a none existant problem. Electronic suspension is summat that could work well tho. Crack on we that instead
  • + 1
 Well I know that I have already seen this on Gene's YouTube channel Regular Guy Mountain Biking (RGMB) youtu.be/vgIUmDFOrlw . I already said my piece on his comments. I just think it's great to see innovation, but why fix something that is not broke. Sure adjustments are needed, but what doesn't need that every now and then? I think I'll stick with what I know. Shimano XT or SLX, been riding that for over 15 years. But, keep the good ideas coming. As for the E-Bike tread, well it's coming and it should be welcomed. Look if it helps my wife, family & friends and parents ride with me more, I am all for it!!!
  • + 3
 Why can't your wife ride a normal bike.......
  • - 1
 @nvranka: maybe she isn't fit enough to keep up with him? also that's none of your business. the more people on bikes (ebikes too) the better
  • + 1
 @Asmodai: I'm simply going to say no. Reply if you want, but I won't be back.
  • - 1
 @nvranka:
no worries i knew you had 0 arguments
  • + 1
 If there is any advantage to electronic shifting, one of the biggest would have to be getting rid of cables entirely. After using SRAM's eTap on a road bike I'd definitely be interested in that if it comes into the MTB space at some point, but I just don't see the point of this.
  • + 8
 Mad bar spins...
  • + 1
 Well if youre talking wired electronic shifting than there is a few positives. Instant shifting and precise shifting. No more needing to tune a cables tention. But for negatives, its battery powered, its a little more fragile, and more costy. It makes a lot of sense for XC bikes to use it and same with road bikes. But for more aggressive bikes, eh not so much.
  • + 3
 @chillrider199: How often do you need to tune your shifter cable tension? For me, I generally replace my shifter cable every spring when mud season is pretty much over. Takes about 10 minutes. I usually have to adjust it once, with a few clicks on the barrel adjuster, after four or five rides. That's usually it; I don't think I've had to tune cable tension outside of that in years. Yep, aligning bent derailleur hangers, that happens once in a while (more on my son's bike, as he bashes into stuff and has big offs all the time). And with modern shifters - how much do you really gain from having the little servo motors do the shifting?
  • + 1
 @g-42: I tune it from time to time. Gotta remember eveyone rides different terrains at different paces. Its not like a weekly thing, but I do stretch the cable over time from use. Also cable routing design makes a big difference in this as well. Theres a lot of variables to take into consideration.

A professional XC rider likes to have good rhythm and momentum. So when the little motor can make instant and super precise shifts, it allows for the rider to stay in a good position. This is really important when doing a tough punchy climb and you need to downshift all of the sudden. Just the little things that help and make a difference. Is electronic shifting a product for a weekend warrior or someone just doing it for sport? I doubt it. But for racers or people who love precision, itll work.
  • + 2
 @chillrider199: I was talking about wireless shifting. eTap is great in that regard as there are fewer parts along the frame to destroy, and for the frame builders there would be one less cable to worry about routing. I think the only thing keeping eTap out of SRAM's MTB offerings right now is that it's still faster to downshift 4-5 cogs when you come up on that wall than with Di2 or eTap.
  • + 1
 @DrPete: there is no point to wireless. It adds failure points and unnecessary complexity to a system with zero benefit other than making it slightly easier to install (because a few zip ties are waaay to hard).
  • + 5
 kinda pointless, but cool.
  • + 1
 Dammit industry you are overthinking this. make a single belt wheel in the back, a spring tensioner, and make the front a clutch controlled by an electronic dial. The whole thing uses a gates style belt. Now that it can be wireless it is an easy idea. A variable sized wheel on the front changes your ratios. You don't even have to index if you don't want. That being said this looks pretty cool.
  • + 1
 While I think this is pretty cool , as it still involves a cable I am not really digging it, it seems more like a hack to me, but kudos to the inventor. I am not sure why we haven't already seen an Etap system from Sram for Eagle, it should be far easier to produce as the brake levers are not part of the system so would only require a shifter box and the rear mech, I can only assume they don't think there is enough of a market for it as the risk of a thrashed expensive rear mech is more of a risk in MTB vs road riding. A great advantage for elec shifting is each cog is individually indexed rather than the whole cassette.
  • + 1
 why would I spend money for something that doesn't shift faster than my current setup? I've ridden Di2 and I found it significantly quicker than a cable set up, so if it ain't that then what's the point.
  • + 0
 I'm going to get a wireless shifter just so that I can ride up next to any random wireless drivetrain rider on an oppressive climb, hijack their comm channel, and upshift them to their highest gear.

I am going to have SO MUCH fun f-ing with people if/when wireless drivetrains become commonplace!
  • + 4
 I personally love to use my heart rate monitor to order 69 pizzas using someone elses account while driving someone else’s car while changing the channel on their tv. Because all wireless devices communicate on the same frequency right?!
  • + 0
 @Austink: Frequency has nothing to do with it. But the fact that mountain bikers are so excited about a wireless drivetrain shows how little they understand about wireless communication....so i'll give you a break on this one.
  • + 1
 Heh... would that it was that easy! Reminds me of the good old days with my radar detector blaster. Hit the button and watch all the break lights! :-D
  • + 2
 I just want to leave a comment here, even though I don't have that D1x and never ridden anything like that (well, like 99% of all other commentators).
  • + 2
 sly dog
  • + 1
 How long until someone starts running a wireless jammer at races? It doesn't take much knowledge, equipment or power to generate enough radio interference to completely drown out communication between wireless shifters.
  • + 0
 Sram already thought of that on Etap, it's basically impossible to hack or so they say.
  • + 2
 @Johnny-W: jamming is not the same as hacking
  • + 1
 Jammers will be small and low powered. A well funded team could even have their shifter/transmitter double as a jammer, only breifly pausing noise broadcast to send out their own valid, shift signals. Activation/deactivation of the jamming would be triggered by a rapid succession of button presses in a defined pattern. It would be impossible to detect unless engaged. Road racers would wait until going up hill, engage the jammer, perhaps only for part seconds. Those missed shifts could add up on a mountain stage, yet might be viewed as equipment malfunction rather than sabotage.

For this reason, it could be that professional racing moves only to wired electronic shifting while everyone else enjoys wireless.
  • + 1
 @Asmodai: By hacking I meant it cannot be interfered with which would include jamming or any other such shenanigans.
  • + 1
 @Johnny-W: Jamming and hacking are definitely different concepts. Hacking can be prevented relatively easily by using encryption. But it is impossible to prevent jamming. Jamming just means drowning out the legitimate signal with noise or a higher powered transmitter.
  • + 1
 @dfiler: Jamming is illegal (as far as I am aware) and although may be possible, is highly unlikely to happen at races and is even less of a concern for us weekend warriors. Etap has been used for a while now and no such reports have been raised of Jamming so it must a be a non-issue ??
  • + 1
 Cool ideas but that buzzing noise every time it shifts would drive me nuts. I also don’t like how that big black box could easily be ripped off by a tree branch or rock. I’ll stick to my tried and true cable
  • + 1
 I have ridden this system. You can't really hear it while riding, the sound is noticeable when on the stand or playing with it when not riding but nothing like it seems on the video. And the mounting is quite secure, but I suppose if something solid managed to hit it just right it could be bad news.
  • + 1
 Mount that shift unit on the front triangle somewhere! Surely a bit of extra cable routing would be worth removing the unsprung mass and placing it in a much more protected area. Love to see great ideas and innovation.
  • + 0
 Absolutely false. Archer did not go public until long after Kickstarter marketing launched. Its easy to verify by internet searching. I also have emails from these guys asking me detailed technical questions about XShifter during the Kickstarter marketing campaign. Anyway, I'm flattered that they attempted to copy me, but the end result is obviously inferior. The XShifter 1X systems are in production and shipping.
  • + 1
 Funny you should say this, Paul. I ordered both your X-Shifter as well as the Archer d1x. Funny that one company has shipped me an item while the other can't find my order since they changed servers. You talk about an "inferior product", yet they're not the ones constantly having people hound them on kickstarter over confusion regarding the launch while having a different reason seemingly every other week for why units have stopped shipping or are being delayed.

Yeahh...I'm the guy whose been e-mailing you for over a MONTH about why I paid money in Dec and yet you can't find my order. Where's my order, Paul?
  • + 0
 The problem with this shifter is that the battery will die eventually, it won't hold charge, and then what? By then, this company will no longer exist, and this little gizmo will be just a paper weight. Bikes are analog, bringing digital to them just messes with perfection. I get that bikes are no longer about passion and are now strictly business, but the past 10 years are the perfect example why you should not jump on every new gizmo that comes out. Heck I never got an XTR crankset because they retired their standards so much. My bikes need to last...
  • + 2
 They don't make a battery or have one custom made... They buy one that already exists from China and sell it to customers. Company goes away, you can still buy the battery from China off eBay or whatever. If somebody wants to waste money on a useless upgrade that's ok, right? The only advantage (imo) is eliminating the possibility of cable noise or an internal cable routing nightmare, but the bike companies are already addressing this.
  • + 1
 It's not really wireless is it? They've just made the wire shorter. So now it's all the problems of wireless, and all the problems of wired shifting combined into one big and clunky package. No thanks.
  • + 1
 Having a single very short section of housing eliminates 90% of the problems with cables.
  • + 2
 @VonFalkenhausen: Shift cables need a bit of love once in a while - but that's dirt cheap and easy to do. I live and ride in a place that's pretty damn muddy 6 months of the year, and dusty for 2. Yet I can get away with ignoring my shifter cable and just replacing it once a year. So if you eliminate 90% of that "problem" in exchange for $400, the need to keep yet another device charged, and the weight equivalent of a low-end 11sp chain hanging from the back of the chain stay - how exactly am I gaining anything? With 2x setups, I can sort of see the appeal of Di2 - massive range, smooth/fast shifting, takes the thinking out of figuring out where to go with your shifts. in 1x setups, that whole piece goes away - there's just not a whole lot of upside here.
  • + 1
 @g-42: Valid points, but all I was saying is that the short cable is not a liability, but an improvement. Cable routing is a common enough issue in bike setup, and many shifting problems are the result of poor routing design and installation. Obviously not a significant enough issue itself to justify such a device, and the people that never seem to get their cables set up right will probably screw up some aspect of the setup on this too. The upsides I see with electronic shifting all come from the shifter end and the versatility, this system is just giving a glimpse in that direction.
  • + 1
 THE REMOTE AND THE SHIFTER COMMUNICATE WIRELESSLY! oops caps lock
  • + 0
 The difference between e-shifters and e-bikes and dropper post, suspension forks etc. is external power source. Once you add an external power source to your efforts you've disrupted the purity of the bike.
I'm not demanding you agree with me but that's how I feel about it. That's why I hate ebikes so much I guess - not because of the threat to my non-existent strava times or that they're going to shred the trail but because once you muddy the line between muscle power and motors there will be no turning back (well also user conflict, land access etc). Now if you hook up a dynamo hub to power your electronic shifting then I'm perfectly happy with it !
  • + 1
 fortunately this problem exist only in your head
  • + 4
 Today is an E-day on Pinkbike
  • + 1
 Wireless shifting is an interesting engineering challenge, but I already have enough rechargeable devices in my life. The last thing I need is to forget to recharge my e-shifter before a ride.
  • + 3
 “I’ll meet you at the trail as soon as my shifter charges” is a statement I never want to make.
  • + 1
 Should we make an app that reminds you to charge your shifter? haha
  • + 2
 @Archer-Brandon: the answer would be yes.
  • + 1
 It's not really wireless though when there's a cable is attached. Also,that actuator would want to be bullet proof placed where it is as well.
  • + 3
 Microshift has a new fully electronic system that is supposed to be very affordable.
  • + 0
 Why can't it be mounted on the seatstay instead?
  • + 1
 @choppertank3e: It can. It can be mounted anywhere.
  • + 1
 It can be ... but then it makes the cable longer ... so you might as well not have it, it would defeat the purpose. Gotta admit I m not a fan @choppertank3e:
  • + 0
 Unsprung weight Heavier Vonerable location, especially for expensive electronics Cumbersome heel strikes Harder to fine tune than a barrel adjuster More expensive Requires morally and Enviromentally unsound batterys
  • + 1
 Totally pointless that its wireless. Give me a wire all day every day over a signal within a system. Just chasing the next "new" thing vs the BEST solution. Period.
  • + 2
 I don't really get it, XT DI2 isn't really that difficult to set up, is way more ergonomic and shifts way faster than this.
  • + 0
 Tubeless, droppers, modern geometry, plus tyres (only just becoming, now) were all game changers. Electronic shifting will not make us go faster or safer, so it's gadgetry, not revolutionary.
  • + 5
 i like gadgets
  • + 30
 plus tyres are not game changers.
  • + 15
 Plus tyres game changers? Really? I only rode them once and they were pretty fun at low speeds but felt horrible when I started to push harder. How so game changers?
  • + 13
 Plus tires are only game changers if you ride too slow to notice their disadvantages. There's a reason why they are not used in any racing application.
  • + 0
 But plus tires were one of the justifications for boost, another game changer!
  • + 2
 Actually, shifting is a perfect fit for the rest of your list. It's exactly like a dropper or hydro brakes; more expensive, more complicated, but definitely better.
  • + 1
 Plus tires have been huge for people like my wife. Loads more confidence on rough terrain. And, yes, she will never push the limits of those tires. But, I think she is a good example of a huge market in mtb. I totally recommend plus to newer and intermediate riders.
I’ve also been happy with what plus tires did to push the development of good 2.5 trail tires.
  • + 1
 Your diagrams are quite helpful in understanding the versatility of this e shifter.
Overall does it save weight?
Much less space used up on the bars.
  • + 1
 So you have to open cover and charge batteries outside every 30-50 hours? No no no.
  • + 1
 Hook up two of these shifter units to one handlebar remote and it'll sort out half the problem with pinion gearboxes...
  • + 1
 I'm probably smarter than that. This thing is probably smarter than me I guess, but it has a battery.....
  • + 2
 I like it... although doesn't solve any problems
  • + 14
 Barspins and tailwhips on a bike with gears is a problem that this solves.
  • + 0
 I'm thinking the reason the big boys are not really going this route is they see the gearbox writing on the wall. Ditch the derailleur once and for all.
  • + 2
 Perhaps the reason the big boys aren't going with it is that a well-tuned manual 1x system doesn't have a whole lot to gain from going to e-shifting. 2x, maybe, because it's doing all the front/rear derailleur coordinating for you, so you don't have to think when you're gassed in XC racing and trying to grab a drastic gear change quickly. But 1x is quick, easy, and pretty precise. Or, in other words, good enough.

Similar issues with derailleurs vs. gear boxes in general. Yes, gear boxes have all sorts of advantages. But derailleurs have the advantage of being what people are used to, being a hell of a lot cheaper to buy, and being, for most riders, damn well good enough. e-shifting has a lower barrier than gearboxes, too, as it works on any frame - which makes gear box adoption even more of a slog.
  • + 1
 In regard to gearboxes... It isn't just that people are used to derailers. Adoption is slow mostly because derailers are cheaper, lighter, relatively reliable and you don't have to stop pedaling to shift. I'd imagine the big manufacturers have evaluated the technology and consumer demand and determined that people don't want gear boxes. Meaning... electronic shifting will probably happen before gearboxes. They seem to have judged the technological progression and are getting into the market just when its viable.
  • + 2
 About to put this on my 7-speed stx dérailleur to keep my commutes going
  • + 3
 Danger zone!
  • + 1
 1 year warranty on this? For a new product and a pretty hefty price tag they might want to rethink their warranty.
  • + 0
 in eu you get 2 year warranty by default
  • + 1
 We are a young startup so we are forced to make decisions like this in order to allow us to get a position where we can honor a longer warranty period. However, we are mimicking other standard warranties in the industry....given that we don't know how people ride it's difficult to stomach a longer warranty when we all know how hard WE can be on our equipment
  • + 1
 Pick a shifting type, be a dick about it.
  • + 1
 do you have to mount it on the chainstay?
  • + 2
 wireless brakes, anyone?
  • + 3
 Yes!How about wireless bikes?!We can just use remotes.
  • + 2
 flintstone style: use your feet. cleans up your bars for that minimalist look.
  • + 1
 Haha I was thinking the same thing.
  • + 1
 @allballz: would love ABS in the front
  • + 1
 @allballz: you could build a mechanical anti lock brake system but I doubt that feature would feel good on the trail.
  • + 1
 The amount of hypocrisy in this thread is incredible.
  • + 1
 The shifter looks really ugly -.-
  • + 1
 Do people actually buy these things?
  • + 2
 ipx rating?
  • + 1
 IP 55 equivalent
  • + 1
 But does it work on the front derrauiller?
  • + 1
 Size must be taken into account when it comes to some dix.
  • + 1
 Shift on voice command would be cool ????
  • + 1
 Awesome. My cable shifters do the exact same thing.
  • + 2
 Why?
  • + 1
 The shifter battery blocks my water bottle cage on my seatstay. . .
  • + 1
 Let's add more in spring weight to the bike
  • + 1
 Not too mention, is this really wireless?
  • + 1
 THE REMOTE AND THE SHIFTER COMMUNICATE WIRELESSLY! oops caps lock
  • + 1
 Reminds me of when Hayes made cable actuated hydraulic discs.........
  • + 0
 But where is the water bottle cage?
  • + 9
 Stop living in the past! Get an app to carry water
  • + 0
 why is no person calling copy cat on this from xshifter?
  • + 4
 Because that's not how it happened my friend.

In some instance of cosmic irony we both started working on our product at the same time -- xshifter just started with kickstarter campaign that made it appear he was farther ahead in the development.

And also, how did we steal anything from xshifter when we hit the market before they did?
  • + 1
 @Archer-Brandon: I wouldn't waste your effort on Paul's 2 accounts (obvious mr Bikecreek is Paul as well, as he has 2 posts, both making the same claims Paul's been making everywhere...including his kickstarter...that archer copied him).

I paid for both, received the d1x within 3 days of my order (still waiting 6 months later for X), and have found it flawless in function (save for my idiotic putting batteries in backwards and frying control board, which you guys replaced the unit overnight). Great work. I had thought to go back to traditional shifter, as I missed the "click", but found that after changing over, I missed the great indexing your product provided.
  • + 0
 Entire point of bikes is zero electronics.
  • + 3
 who told you that ?
  • + 4
 @Asmodai: If you're going to have a battery you might as well ride a motorcycle. Bicycles don't require anything but your legs. If you dumb it down with useless trinkets you have to recharge it defeats the purpose.
  • + 1
 @casman86: no really, its still the same bike powered by your legs and there is a huge difference between bike with wireless shifter and motorcycle

and charging once every 3-6 months is not an issue
  • - 3
 @Asmodai: It is an issue. It's worse in every way compared to a simple cable which looks cleaner and operates flawlessly.
  • + 8
 @casman86:
its not objectively worse, both cable and wireless have cons and pros

you should pick what is better for you, and you should stop looking into other peoples wallets
i really dont get your mentality "more options for customers is bad" wtf
  • + 4
 Really? Please point us all to the "Law of Bikes" book that we all have never heard of.

If you complain about "electronics doing shit for you" then please get off the bike completely. The bike helps the human go faster and cover more ground. The dropper post allows the seat to go up and down. The derailleur and shifters help you to shift the chain. They may not be "electronic" but they ARE doing work for you.

Technology will advance ever forward with or without you.
  • + 1
 @casman86 spot on. I guess people really don’t get it... simple, affordable, for the every man, independence, heritage, self propelled, reliable... the noble bike, capable of revolution and durable as stone.
  • + 1
 @LiquidSpin: I guess when you boil it down, your dropper, mech or fork aren’t just going to stop working if you forget to charge them. The benefits of electronics would have to be huge compared to mechanical before the added complexity and reliance on external power are worth the risk.
  • + 1
 @Sponger:
all you said applies to bikes with wireless shifting as well

There is literally no difference, what if you forget to pump your tires or change oil in your fork or swap bearings?
  • + 1
 @Asmodai: Your tires, fork and bearings last for months...
  • + 1
 @MoonboyMTB:
and batteries last 3-6 months
if you forget to charge it at least once during 6 months (or even 2/3) of use while you have yellow and then red light blinking "charge me" you are completely f*ckin retarded and you are the same person that would forget to service his bike and rides empty tires
  • + 1
 @casman86: People said the same about derailleurs a while back.
  • + 2
 @Asmodai: ok, let’s keep this sensible. If your going to stoop low enough to use the word retard in polite conversation, then the least you can do is have the balls to right f*ck properly.. You point seems that electronics are just the same as any other technology on our bikes that’s come before it, that might be true, but it’s taking us further and further away from the humble bike and it’s two biggest strengths simple function and independence.

On a side not, I ride my bike to get away from the omni present technological modern world of phones, wifi, emf towers and general instant connectivity. The thought of having to use it while I ride and have my gonads zapped with emf all ride sounds hellish. What’s next 5G on every trail head and tree... just lean your Ebike against a tree and boom touch battery charging engaged.

My bad pinkbike auto corrects curse words, what the f*ck
  • + 0
 @Sponger:
>biggest strengths simple function and independence.

we are fay beyond this point, i mean sure for some this is still true but modern bikes are cramped with complicated technology even before you introduce anything electronic. wireless mech failure is as possible as cable actuated ones and it sucks the same (battery is not an issue, it lasts very long and gives you enough heads up before its depleted)

also if you chose to you can keep your bike completely digital free and simple as possible if this is important for you

> I ride my bike to get away from the omni present technological modern world

i dont, i ride with gps enabled smart watch connected to endomondo (or similar app) while listing to music from my smartphone which is streamed by LTE

your bike and ride, your choice
  • + 1
 What about a light mounted to a handlebar? Or a GPS or bike computer? Or using your phone as a map or for strava? Everybody uses electronics on the trail in someway.
  • + 1
 @Sponger:Oh really? Your forks don't work if you forget to change the oil or your brakes won't work unless you bleed the brakes and get rid of those pesky air bubbles. Try NEVER servicing your bike and go ride hard, I dare you Razz
  • + 1
 @Asmodai: ok, it’s about having fun right. If your having fun then fair enough good for you. Different mindsets I guess. Maybe one day leave all that stuff behind for a ride and you may get a glimpse into my experience.
  • + 1
 @Mtb4joe: for the majority of the time I don’t use any of that.
  • + 1
 @LiquidSpin: maintenance is different to redundant complexity
  • + 1
 I though the entire point is to have fun and drink beer. Did I not get a memo?
  • + 2
 @woofer2609: im having fun
  • + 1
 @Sponger: Please explain the difference between remembering to charge a lithium battery to remembering to changing an oil in a fork or replacing a worn cassette or chain.

Maintenance....what does that mean exactly to you? What's your definition of maintenance?
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