Ask Pinkbike: A Slippery Wheel, A Used Bike that's Too Good to Be True and the Elusive Alloy DH 29er

Jan 23, 2018
by Pinkbike Staff  
Ask Pinkbike Header

Here at Pinkbike we get inundated with all kinds of questions, ranging from the basic "Can I have stickers" to more in-depth, soul-searching types of queries like if you should pop the question or what to name your first child. Ask Pinkbike is an occasional column where we'll be hand-picking and answering questions that have been keeping readers up at night, although we'll likely steer clear of those last two and keep it more tech oriented.





How Do I Stop My Wheel From Slipping in the Frame?

Question: Pinkbike user @LouisEvans1 asked this question in the Dirt Jumping & Street forum: So a couple of months ago I bought the parts to build a new dirt jump bike. I read into it (looking back now obviously not enough) and “thought” I had everything right. As it is now my rear wheel (happens to be a downhill wheel Hope hubs and a QR skewer) pulls forward in the drop outs when I pedal and with my tire being too wide rubs on the frame. I have set it to a place where the wheel runs smooth beforehand. Anyone got any ideas about what I could do? Thanks.

bigquotesI'd first suggest trying to track down a bolt-on axle conversion kit for that hub. Hope offer a number of different options, and more than likely, with a little internet sleuthing you'll be able to find a kit that'll work. Quick-releases and dirt jumping don't go well together, so I'd recommend taking this step sooner than later. You may also want to pick up a set of chain tensioners, something along the lines of DMR's Chain Tugs. Those will help keep the wheel from shifting during hard pedaling or cased landings. As a final step, I'd keep an eye out for a narrower tire so you have at least a little bit of wiggle room before it rubs on your frame. Mike Kazimer


Industry Nine single speed hub laced to a Reynolds hoop. Shimano Saint brakes for stopping.
A bolt-on rear wheel is the way to go when it comes to dirt jumping. A chain tensioner can also add protection against wheel slippage, although in this photo there's no chain to worry about - it's been removed for some pumptrack action.








Too Good to Be True?

Question: @tomas2000 asls in the All Mountain, Enduro & Cross-Country forum: So I’m about to buy a new enduro bike. I've just seen a nice second-hand bike advertisement: Norco range A 7.1 …basically a top-end enduro race bike. The bike was used for one season and it still has got a warranty, but it was used in races the entire season - at least 10 enduro races and some downtowns. Does it really matter?


bigquotesA great bike at a great price. What could be wrong with that? Well, there is the possibility that this bike was gently and ever-so-gingerly competed on for an entire season of enduro racing….just like there’s a possibility that you could win the lottery or develop a cold-fusion reactor in your bathroom. Possible? Sure. But probable? Not so much.

It’s been years since I’ve raced with any regularity, but I can say this: I put a hurt on my race bikes back when I was doing everything I could to beat the clock. Enduro racing is, on the whole, pretty damn demanding on equipment. The odds that the bike is in perfect nick after a season of racing? Slim

This bike may be very well maintained, but “well maintained” isn’t the same thing as minty-fresh. And besides, what are the odds that the bike wasn’t used for training as well as racing? If so, that’s a whole lot more miles to account for. The old “If it sounds too good to be true…” saying comes to mind here. Finally, there’s the question of warranty. Every warranty that I’ve ever run across is limited to the original owner of the bike or component. There’s little likelihood of you benefitting from any warranty here. You’re right, it sounds like a great bike, but you’re probably better off, in this case, starting fresh.
Vernon Felton



Norco Range A 7.1
Norco's Range A 7.1 is an undeniably compelling rig, but buying one that's been raced for a season? It may not be as good a deal as it sounds.




Alloy 29 DH Bikes

Question: Pinkbike user @oldgoat asked this question in the 29er forum: Does anyone know if there will be an alloy 29er DH bike available for 2018?

bigquotesDespite the flurry of 29" bikes panicking towards downhill world cup tracks after the opening round in Lourdes, 2017, there are few that have come to physical, for sale, fruition. The only real-life example so far is the Commencal Supreme 29, which are actually available to order and are on a boat, as you read this, to Andorra. I have been following the countdown on the Commencal and at the time of writing I only need to wait another 44 days, 05 hours, 39 minutes and 12 seconds until my test bike arrives. For the 6'5" @CONomad who was looking for a big bike in the same forum thread, the 470mm reach on the large size, or the whopping 495mm on the XL size should suit your needs. Does this make it the biggest production downhill bike in the world? Also at €5,399 for the complete version or €4,599 for the frame kit, it's likely the cheapest option that will be available for a while.

Other bikes to note are the (carbon) Santa Cruz V10 that started the ball rolling, which still hasn't appeared on their website. Trek does have a pricy frame kit available on their website that includes a Fox 49. Mondraker and Saracen also had alloy prototype machines at the races, so we could possibly see some of those appear soon. The towering Florent Payet has been helping Mondraker with development over the winter. Eddie Masters and the Bergamont team did wedge wagon wheels into their Straitline bikes, and I did the same with my Canyon Sender and it worked out - but it's not officially recommended.
Paul Aston

Images for SUPREME DH 29 with Amaury Pierron
The Commencal Supreme 29er will be here soon for €5,399.
Trek Session 2017
Trek's Carbon Session 29 frame and fork is listed on their website for $4,999 USD.





Have some unresolved tech questions? Jump in the Pinkbike Forum and we'll look to answer it for next time.


222 Comments

  • 182 5
 On "starting fresh" vs buying something used...point taken on abuse, but what Vernon does not address is that the used bike in question is probably $2000-2500 while the new version of same bike is $6000. That's just a bit of a price difference, and generally means that it's "used bike" or "no bike". I know which option pretty much anyone here would pick.
  • 119 15
 Right, but new bike manufacturers sponsor this website. Bikes are simple, lets not pretend anything other than consumables is worn out after a season. Kind of pissed off that Vernon is advocating a whole new bike when something as simple as new bearings, shifter cables, and brake pad/bleed and tires would suffice. Nope, gotta feed the hungry industry and keep up with the jones' and DUD.
  • 48 10
 just going to throw this in here, I bought a used bike, looked great, the guy said he barely got to ride it well.. bullshit. I had to service and replace pretty much everything on said bike and probably put in as much money if not more than it would've cost to buy a bike three years newer with better specs. live and learn.
  • 51 2
 Ive been into mountain bikes for about 11 years and only ever bought used. Just check it over when you buy it and get a good read on the seller. Great deals out there new bikes are insanely overpriced.
  • 12 2
 Yeah, YT or Canyon for example.
  • 24 1
 Exactly. Even if you have to put a grand into it replacing parts, you're still at half the price of new. If the wheels and frame check out, I say go for it.
  • 54 12
 Valid points, but if I was deciding between buying a used bike that had been raced versus one that hadn’t, I know what I would choose. Racing takes a much greater toll than ‘regular’ riding - fatigue and adrenaline lead to more poor line choices and crashes - race bikes lead hard lives.
  • 13 1
 Just verify what the previous owner did with the bike, ask the hard questions. Some owners who sell their bike after a season or two will also throw in consumables. I always throw in a set of new tires of the buyer wants, and let them know when their next suspension service is due. If you find someone like that, or better yet an industry insider or shop mechanic letting loose their personal machine you hit the jackpot.
  • 14 10
 Nah, totally disagree @TheRaven
In my experience, bikes ridden and raced hard tend to last roughly 18 months before cracks develop in the frame; the transmission is utterly ruined and the wheels need more than a few spokes tweeking.
Always buy new if you ride hard and read the warranty details VERY carefully, because some are utterly crap.

This statement is in no way trying to come across as a Billy Bigtime brag, it's just my own experience
  • 14 1
 ...also, a "well maintained" bike may come with a clean chain and pivots that don't wobble, but it has no relevance to how many times it's been hucked-to-flat.

Good/poor maintenance is not what kills a frame
  • 22 0
 @mikekazimer: If they're serious about beating the clock, the maintenance intervals are probably way more frequent than a typical rider. The bike gets ridden harder, but a lot of those bikes also get serviced way more often, by people who know what they're doing. Brakes bled, forks rebuilt, bolts checked, suspension pivots greased or replaced, wheels trued. Just walk through the pits at any DH race, most people have a stand set up and boxes of spare parts handy.
  • 21 0
 Exactly, the used market is killer. My last 5 bikes have been second hand pinkbike or Craigslist finds. Definitely got me into bikes that I otherwise wouldn't have dreamed of owning
  • 92 1
 I, for sure, will never buy another used bike off PB. I was burned by a clown from Arizona selling a Demo 8 about 2 or 3 years ago.

My first obvious questions that I asked was "are there any cracks or dents?", he said "nope, the bike is mint." I get the bike and the first thing I see is a crack on the weld where the headtube met the downtube, a crack in the front rim, and a HUGE dent on the swingarm. I texted the seller and he said "its a crack in the paint, not the frame" then immediately followed it up with "no refunds" and ignored my texts/calls from that moment on.

AND I know youre reading this - you douche bag. You know who you are.
  • 17 4
 For 2500 get a brand new top spec diamondback.
  • 9 0
 @poozank: don't forget pricey suspension rebuild.

As I see it there's one big thing to consider: WHO raced the bike. Frame stress is more important than consumables, when buying a 2nd hand bike used for racing.

One could fully trust a race bike owned by me or any other or the average 30something guys, who race aware that they'll have to work on monday and try not to die in the big stuff, but you can't trust that much a bike owned by the top local guys, 15" faster in a 2' track usually, and throwing whips landing sideways everywhere when not racing.

Said so, if you give me the choice to spend 2k in top notch bike raced for a season, or 3k in a lower spec'ed brand new bike, I'd choose the latter hands down. Nowadays even the same 2k will get you something gooood.
  • 15 2
 @Nathan6209: I'm an industry insider and you sure as shit don't want my used bike! When you don't pay for bikes, you generally beat them with little regard even if they are maintained properly. Point being, don't trust that a bike is in good condition just because someone's an "industry insider" or mechanic, it's always a case by case.
  • 14 1
 @NYShred: l learned a similar lesson. I bought a frame that was "mechanic maintained" plus "i haven't even registered it, I can give you the receipt!", only to find a crack in the frame on the underside of the bottom bracket. Had to spend more money to get it fixed, plus the seller never got back to me with the receipt or to answer why there was a crack.

Down with all douche bag PB sellers!
  • 22 0
 @NYShred: paypals your friend, dont neglect him.
  • 84 1
 @poozank: My recommendation is purely that--mine. It's not influenced by advertisers. A year of racing on enduro on a bike takes its toll. As I noted in my response, there's also a very good likelihood that the bike was trained on as well. How many people really own a race-day-only rig? So, we're likely talking about a bike that has seen a lot of miles, and some very hard ones at that. Routine maintenance helps stave off drivetrain and suspension replacement, but there's no guarantee that this bike was "babied" by its owner. I mean, just about everyone selling a bike says that the thing has been babied, never put away wet and so forth. Having worked in a shop, I know that ain't true.

So, it comes down to this: The used bike carries some level of risk. A new bike at that price will, as many have rightfully pointed out, not come with anywhere near the high-end level of componentry. True--and definitely something worth pondering. That said, I'd still save up for another half season and buy a $3,000 rig instead. Yeah, I'd be getting low-end brakes, a Yari instead of a Pike, a budget dropper, but I'd sleep better knowing I had a warranty and, frankly, as long as the rotor size is right, I've gotten on really well with a set of Deore or SLX brakes. Ditto for the Yari--it's a good fork for the money.

But, hey, that's just my take. I'm less of a roll-the-dice kind of guy. If someone feels like taking a chance on a used bike with unknown mileage and no warranty, go for it. To each their own.

I'd insert some bikes that I'd consider (there are plenty), but then someone in this thread will just suggest I'm trying to sell you a new bike and, frankly, I don't care if any of you ever buys a new bike again. Just not something I give a damn about. Most of us riders retire our "old" bikes way too early. I've said it before--you don't need a new bike to be happy riding bikes. Just ride what you've got. That pretty much does it for me every time.
  • 9 4
 Clapped out Range or new Capra for the same price?

Go!
  • 6 2
 Save up and buy a new bike. Buying second hand uninspected could be great, but if it goes wrong, it goes very wrong and can be a false economy.
  • 5 1
 this is like that person that comes up to you with their nice white Focus/Merc van and says “It was a right bargain. its ex police. No expense spared. Always serviced”.
Yet its never left second, rammed into things, had every heroin addict in town in the back,been sicked in, bled in etc.
Not such a great deal now.
I would not buy a hard raced bike.
(Some folks buy old ambos. Jesus!)
  • 10 2
 to add to vernon's discussion, you may get a more high end spec on the used race bike, but i would take brand new slx components over xtr components that have been raced on for a year.
  • 4 1
 @poozank: Exactly this. If you're capable of building and maintaining a steed, why not buy used?
  • 11 2
 Seriously!! Modern bikes are pretty strong and can be raced many seasons. We are not in the 90s anymore. Used bike are 50 or 60% less. I you are not anal (and don't have disposable income), you don't need an unscratched bike, you can use this money to go places and enjoy your life. Your riding experience will be the exact same!!
I don't believe either racing or ot make any difference I'd rather get a maintained bike from a 150lbs racer than a clapped bike from a 300lbs meathead wannabee freerider.
Trued wheels, serviced suspensions, bleed brakes, and a new mech cable and you have a new bike for $200.
  • 10 9
 Sometimes the level of cynicism here, about the motives of the PB staff, is remarkable. Do you really think somebody's going into a shop and saying "Make sure Vernon gets his kickback because I read on PinkBike that I should buy new and not used"?

You can get some great deals on CL/etc when somebody with too much disposable income goes out and buys the best of the FotM then discovers they don't really want to bike - and I'm sure the recommendation here would be to buy that bike. But something that's been raced and god-knows-what-else for a year? By a person of unknown skills, luck, or whatever? And this whole "Ask questions and get a good read on the seller" business? Good luck with that when you come across a talented d-bag scammer. Or trying to do that across an email conversation.
  • 6 0
 @NYShred:
I had no bad experiences with buying used. I bought 2 frames which were in very good condition but there are a lot of a**holes out there who sell dented frames etc.
When I sold my bikes I tried to include all flaws (paint etc.) so the buyer is happy and know what he gets and I dont face any problems.

But if I were you the frame should have more dents from beatin this dudes ass with it
  • 10 0
 I bought a 2yr old Blur XC carbon top built (like $7.5k I believe) that had been raced numerous times (and won) for $1,600. Rode the hell out of it for 4 yrs. Had to replace a brake and the wheels in that time. And sold it for $1,200. No doubt the new owner is enjoying it now as much as if it was new today.
  • 3 0
 @NYShred: damn that f@$king sucks.
  • 1 1
 @NYShred: I don't get it, why did you buy then? In the dent was obvious and huge, I wouldn't buy it. Or you didn't try before buy? I would NEVER do that.
  • 2 0
 @WrenchRy87: and check the battery to make sure it will hold a charge. Never gets old.
  • 9 0
 @NYShred: Did you report them for scamming?

Name and shame dude!
  • 4 1
 @mikekazimer: maybe, but I would argue that race bikes are less likely to be neglected.A bike that gets ridden hard and put away wet and had the brake pads run down to the metal a couple of times, etc. etc. is no deal.

Savvy buyers learn to track the serial bike swappers in their community-the rider that has to have something new every few months. Then it's a matter of being on the spot when you see them reaching for their Amex card at the bike shop.
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer: yes, the struggle is real.
  • 2 0
 @vernonfelton: Preach on! Don’t let these a-holes get you down!
  • 1 1
 @NYShred: buy used carbon only
  • 2 0
 @crysvb: Yeah same here. My "perfect bike" had to get a new free hub four rides later. Id also see where abouts the bike has been ridden as to how much "life" is actually left on the bike. Most used bikes ive bought had to have another $300 put into them before there were good to go. Just some thoughts
  • 3 0
 @mikekazimer: most people don't race, and there are tons of gently used bikes by people who just lose interest, or " need money" during snowboarding season.
  • 1 0
 @amirazemi: was this raced as well?
  • 10 1
 @IllestT: Wow what have you been buying? As a bike dealer of sorts, i'm up to 47 bikes bought through ebay and PB classifieds over the past four years. I've NEVER had the issues you describe. I've certainly had my share of trashed forks, wheels, and droppers, but even replacing ALL THREE means coming out at a total cost of 50% below new. Hell i've had examples where i literally trashed everything but the frame, bought all new parts (including frame hardware and bearings), and STILL come out at 50-60% of new retail price.

It's the cost difference. When you can buy a top-spec bike that's two years old for $2000-2500, there is almost nothing that could be wrong with that bike that's bad enough to make a new one a better value.

Also, I don't know how we got to the assumption that you can only buy "clapped out race bikes" on PB. Use common sense, make sure you get plenty of pics, and as already mentioned, make sure you have some budget left to fix the inevitable used bike details. I can't even tell you how many virtually brand new bikes i've picked up here for 25% of retail.
  • 4 0
 @TheRaven: couldnt have said it better. regardless, you can true a wheel, change the oil in the lowers, bleed brakes and get things running OK until you can afford to fix them properly. But at least you can ride.
  • 3 0
 my bike shop told me my chain was work and needed to be replaced about 4 years ago.. heh heh heh... ah yes.
  • 4 5
 @acetasting1992: Exactly. For most of the guys i've ridden with, even a $3000 direct-sale-base-model is out of the budget. For them it's used or nothing. Even for those who can stretch the budget and just eek out enough to buy that $3k YT or Canyon, they'd be insane to do so - and end up with a budget frame and questionable warranty support, wheels that will have to be tossed after the fourth ride, suspension that will have to be serviced at the same time, and a drivetrain you can find on bikes in Wal-Mart. How would that be any better than the "clapped out race bike"? I'd wager the race bike would actually last longer in fact.
  • 3 0
 Some of you guys seem to not realize the difference in attitude between serious racers and regular dudes. Those guys will happily huck that thing to flat just for fun or to gain a split second because it only has to last for about 6 months till replacement. Also, replacing parts for a racer is a given, they do not bat an eye if something gives in. So under that aspect, while their stuff will generally be well maintained, the crucial parts IF they have survived a whole season and are not recent replacements have most likely been through a world of pain because, as was already said, in racing/training nobody gives a f*ck about the bike. Gotta get those lines dialed in limited time. Unknown jump? Well, better send it straight away, f*ck hangups.
That´s not even considering all the regular pressure washing. So it better comes with all new rear sus bearings, BB, suspension service, headset. Also, regular crashes and handlebars don´t go well together, so i´d personally change those for sure.

So yeah, if it´s your average aging dude turned "enduro racer", then by all means go for it, it´s probably a good deal. But then again you might be surprised what some average joe looking guys are sending, so it´s hard to verify what the bike has been through.
If it´s in any way been ridden seriously i´d stay the hell away from any bike that´s been raced regularly.
  • 6 0
 @TheRaven: Unfortunately this is where we differ in opinion I actually think YT bikes are pretty spot on. if I buy new thats where Im taking my money!
  • 5 0
 @acetasting1992: I second that. I picked up a new YT for $2K. I tried finding a 'closeout', 'barely used' or 'well maintained' bike on here for the same amount of cash but no dice unless I wanted much lower grade components or older models--definitely not 'practically brand new'.
  • 2 0
 @TheRaven: if you choose the brand correctly, and it applies to I´d say every popular internetshop-bike (just considering the german guys here) from Radon, Canyon, Rose, Propain, YT, you get a real good frame and good enough components. Or lets just say not Walmart-tier. Starting at depending on model etc. around 1800€ depending on season and model year.

Of course if you cannot afford that, or even if, often times a used bike is better. I know two people who bought used bikes after going to see them in person (this is a must tho) that are in a perfectly fine condition, and saved around 30-40% of the price after being only one year in use. For me personally though, having gone through several warranty issues, it would still not be worth it. I´m with Vernon on this one.
  • 1 1
 @Loki87: Even still that doesn't matter. Pros aren't breaking bikes at rampage. Joe the Hack Racer sure as shit isn't breaking anything either. Stop fear mongering.
  • 3 0
 @TheRaven:

How do you figure on the parts? That base level YT or whatever has the exact same spec as the other brands 2nd tier models. And the main D2C brand frames are proven again and again.

I could see warranty with no local support being a pita but when you buy used you get no damn warranty. There are exceptions of course. My friend cracked his used alu Intense and they sold him a carbon version at cost including rear shock for about $1k. They had no obligation to help him at all and he had already ridden it for a season.

I get though that it’s fun to find the deals and piece a nice ride together.
  • 4 0
 @crysvb: Same thing happened to me Frown Used bikes can be great but are definitely a gamble.
  • 4 0
 @TheRaven:
Have you looked at the direct sales brand’s specs?
For example the Canyon Strive for 2,600$ vs a Transition Patrol build for 4,000$:
Both GX Eagle, Lyrik with a Race Face cockpit. Differences are Guide vs Code (+Patrol), Monarch + vs DPX (+Patrol), DT Wheelset vs e13 rims on Novatec hubs (+Strive), KS post vs Reverb (+Strive), Frames are both well made (in my opinion the Strive is even better made).

So no shitty parts, just (partially) shitty service. On the other hand, I waited for a new rear end under warranty from Transition for 3 months...
  • 4 0
 Replace every 5-6 years or more rather than every 2 or 3 and you'll have twice the amount of cash to spend. Let me know if that logic doesn't stand up.
  • 7 0
 The question is not “has the bike been raced?” But simply “is the bike f*cked?”
Or even just “is the bike worth what the seller is asking?”
Be careful what you buy then go and rip very nice bicycles for very nice prices.
  • 2 0
 @ThomDawson: yes, but the former makes the latter more likely
  • 2 0
 @BenPea: I can’t really argue with that but I’ve also seen components totally fubar through lack of use/ neglect (one reverb I bought looked as though it had been pulled from a river bed after being sat unused for a year). My point is just that, as somebody else said, it’s a case by case thing. Either the bike is worth your money or not, you just have to learn how to determine that which isn’t very difficult (especially when the new equivalent is 4x the price). I wouldn’t dismiss a bike I was after just because it had been raced. Just as I might dismiss one that is hardly touched but sat in a damp garage it’s whole life.
  • 3 0
 @ThomDawson: Using an educated eye essentially (one that you've borrowed, if necessary). Which is why, like fruit and veg, you should buy local and give it a squeeze before you buy.
  • 1 0
 @amirazemi: Good deal? Probably. Stolen? Yes.
  • 1 0
 @richierocket: you mad? haha you wish you found that didnt you :-)) no it it's not stolen. Stolen bikes you cant find in web. bought this from a swiss guy who has very high rate selling goods. see yaaa
  • 1 0
 @danphipps: no, the bike is tip top actually just got super lucky.
  • 3 0
 Absolutely the way to buy high-end used sleds... Local from the guys you see upgrading often. I have bike(s) way beyond my budget. It's a blast learning, piecing parts together. My LBS helped me the first time (confirming compatibility, etc.), Buying the missing bits from them. The compromise is owning tech from 2012... But riding still feels like 1999 everytime.
  • 4 0
 +100000000000000000

2nd hand all the way for me! I don't like spending the same amount on a bicycle as I would a used car. Anything can break at any time, new OR used.
  • 9 0
 @NYShred: for just this reason pb should have buyer feed back. Like ebay if the seller sucks at least there is some feed back from previous buyers.
  • 2 0
 @brncr6: Absolutely, and it's a relatively simple request to protect the users of this community, and it's not too difficult to implement on a sellers page/account. Unfortunately the "honor system" here doesn't work.

What's even more unfortunate is "buyer/seller feedback" has been talked about for years here in the comments and PB hasn't said anything to acknowledge that it's a problem or care to take steps to address it. They just stand behind their policy of "buy at your own risk" - if that's the case, then I suggest getting rid of the BuySell section all together.
  • 2 0
 @NYShred: Let's first get expiring listings. That's something that should have been done since the beginning. No reason we should still see listings that haven't been updated in THREE YEARS.

But I agree, some form of seller/buyer rating is a necessity with a trading community of the size PB has.
  • 4 0
 @gunners1: @andreasgunster: I bought the bike for just under $3,000, brought it home and rode it a couple times, took it in to get the fork serviced.. found out it needed a total rebuild. rear shock needed a rebuild. bottom bracket was quote "150% worn" so needed to be replaced, when they took the bb out they discovered my carbon frame was cracked through to the bb so i had to get my carbon frame repaired. brakes failed on me a couple rides down the road, had to replace them both. rotors were paper thin. the only thing on this bike i kept stock was the seat, dropper and cranks. i put about $2000 into repairs when the bike "was barely ridden" frustrating to say the least
  • 10 1
 So I guess I need to dispense some advice. I'm seeing alot of talk about getting burnt by dishonest sellers. This doesn't need to be a risk.

First, 95% of the time, simply asking for good pics, establishing a conversation with the seller, and not allowing emotion to drive the deal is all you need. But you can make yourself bulletproof.

Pay only with paypal, and use only a credit card registered with paypal to send the payment. Yes this will require a 3% fee on your purchase, but that's your insurance. It gives you two levels of protection. If you buy a "mint condition" or "no problems" bike, and end up with a cracked frame, and the seller disappears, all you have to do is open a claim with Paypal. The seller has three days to respond. If he doesn't, you get your money back automatically (and get to keep the bike too). If he does respond, he has to provide proof that the bike was not cracked when he shipped it. If he can do this, and he sufficiently insured the shipment, then it's on the carrier. If he didn't, then it's on him. Most likely he won't be able to prove it wasn't cracked anyway. Again, automatic refund.

Finally, if Paypal fails to get you your money back, simply file a claim with your credit card company. They will immediately yank the money back while they investigate. I only ever had to go this far ONE TIME, and it was almost 20 years ago when Paypal was in it's infancy. Every problem i've had with a seller that I paid with paypal since then has been handled sufficiently by paypal itself. Though i've never had to do this with a bike purchase. I've always been able to work any issues out with the seller.
  • 1 1
 @crysvb: sounds like you let the mechanic run the show..
  • 2 0
 @NYShred: Seriously, you should name who did this. I've bought used on pb a bunch of times and only had good experiences. Most people even overstate the wear and tear. So this guy may be an outlier and people should be warned about him.

On a side note, I don't buy anything used from Arizona. It's all rocks and sh*t. Sorry Arizona peeps, but you know what I'm talking about.
  • 1 0
 @whitebullit: you got it. I don't know just how much of a friend PayPal is but I am guessing that you are covered if a product is advertised as unbroken and it turns out to be broken, you are covered. When I saw this title I immediately thought scam instead of the condition. Of course, I have not seen the add or sellers profile but I'm skeptical of to good to be true adds more for scam potential than condition. Guess I should be weary of both.
  • 3 1
 @crysvb: I’ve sold a few things I knew 100% were fully functional because I’m so boring I take things apart and put them back together for fun. Upon arrival with the new owner I get sent a pic of an invoice from their lbs who have ‘had to completely rebuild’ said item...2 days after I did the same myself. If you walk in to your lbs like “I just bought this from a guy on eBay, can you check it over” you’re basically just giving them a blank cheque.
  • 3 0
 @ThomDawson: Yeah there are plenty of shops that will see how far they can go. I too, have seen this when a friend tells me "the shop wants $100 to rebuild my fork can you do it cheaper?" and I take it apart and find that besides being 5cc low on bath oil, it's in perfect shape.

It's a shame but it's part of MTB life just as it's part of life everywhere else it seems.
  • 4 0
 @matadorCE: @NYShred Speaking of cracked frames... I saw a ridiculous one the other day, I think it was on CL... not sure. Guy actually admitted frame had a decently large crack, and then proceeded to explain how he hit it with a sledgehammer a few times, and it didn't crack anymore, so it should be fine. lol Facepalm
  • 1 0
 @ThomDawson: @acetasting1992: nah, the guy had the bike for three years before me, it was well overdue for service. failing brakes and carbon crack repair wasn't a mechanic taking advantage. the fork was also poop as once it was opened up they found the nickel to be completely chipped and ripping up the seals but they couldn't know that until they got in there (and they were able to show me) I could feel after my rides that the bottom bracket also needed replacing. I didn't just take it to a shop and give them free range, I had bits and pieces serviced at different niche shops, suspension, carbon repair and a bike shop. the mechanics didn't f*ck me over, the guy selling me the bike who didn't take care of it or service it at all for three years f*cked me over.
  • 2 0
 @number44: Exactly. S-works Enduro for sale on CL near me, along with a couple other similar high-enders. Guy bought it, decided biking isn't his thing, and now it's for sale for thousands less. If I only had a few thousand more to burn...
  • 5 0
 @mtbikeaddict: I picked up a one-year-old Enduro 29 Expert (Carbon) for $2100 shipped...guy said it was "barely ridden"...when I received it I was pretty sure it was NEVER ridden. That cassette was BRAND new, and the frame still had some of the factory static-plastic protection on it. That was a $7000 bike. For $2100. I don't think I can overstate the awesomeness.

Just bought a Tracer 275c factory for $1800 shipped. Frame is like new, and i'm in process of selling off all the components but i'm well on my way to a free frame once they're sold. Already did the same thing with a 2016 Uzzi 275. That frame is on my shop wall currently awaiting a build.

The list goes on and on. There are so many of these types of deals, no one should never have to even look at a "clapped out race bike".
  • 1 0
 @TheRaven: Exactly. Just scroll through the local classifieds... it's amazing what can be found. I think that Enduro is sold now... it was brand new and like $3600, so no surprise. There is something else I have my eye on though... 2017 Giant Trance 2 for $690. It's slightly too small, and a couple hours' drive, but for that price... hard to resist. Bottom line: Buy used, and buy smart. Check everything pre-purchase and you're golden. Drool
  • 1 0
 I buy a lot of stuff that is basically new, but has been assembled before. There seem to be a lot of people that buy a brand new bike and start replacing stuff before they even rode the bike. I recently bought an entire X1 group for the price of a cassette, just because the owner thought he needed an Eagle group (I know this because he used the eagle boxes for packing). It's all fine for me, but some people really don't seem to know what to do with their money.
  • 1 0
 @adrennan: It also needs to be mentioned that most people are not really going to want to downgrade when they replace parts. Those XTR replacement parts are going to be expensive....
  • 2 0
 Buying a used bike from a member of the 50:01 crew may not be the best idea.
  • 3 0
 @Lastpikd: I disagree, on a used high end frame, Im going XT/ GX Eagle all day as a replacement parts even if the original build was XTR/XO1. Only buy top shelf if you building up a new frame IMO.
  • 2 0
 And WHO raced it. There's the possibility that the guy or girl was last place in most races. Also how hard are YOU going to ride it? If you're huckin flats and pulling some fabio shit then no, but hitting youre local trails/bike park on the weekends....

Just my 2cents, I still DH a 02 evil imperial from time to time and I'm on a 2010 specialized enduro. I'm not exactly easy on my rigs, but I certainly don't push the limits of what they can handle either...
  • 1 1
 @NYShred: paypal dispute. Full refund. Pics/vid for proof and the convo stays on pinkbike. Sounds like you brought that one on yourself.
  • 4 0
 @TheRaven:
Agree. Just bought a brand new Intense Spider 29c expert on EBay with XTR, XX1, Reverb post, DT Swiss wheels, Fox suspension for $2749. You just have to know what you want, not want it too badly, be patient and grab it when you finally find one that meets your specs. This bike new would be $6K MSRP. I picked up a used SAAB 9-3 convertible last summer in pristine condition for less than that - but that's another topic!
  • 2 0
 @NYShred: name him and shame him. I don't want to be his next victim.
  • 1 0
 @codypup: I've met plenty of teachers who don't treat their bikes particularly well. Most racers don't have a team behind them. They often get used and lower quality parts when stuff breaks just so they can get back out there.
The people with the will maintained bikes are dentists and engineers. They have money and care.
  • 1 0
 @amirazemi: No no, not mad or jealous. I'm happy you found such a sweet deal man. Enjoy!^^
  • 1 0
 @richierocket: haha thnx buddy!
  • 2 0
 @crysvb: That sucks man , sorry to hear that. Yeah it can be tough to figure that stuff out unless your a full on mechanic.
  • 1 0
 @NYShred: PayPal is usually on the side of the buyer for I believe six months? That’s why it’s good to do it as a legit transaction and not as gift to friends and family to avoid fees (not that you did.) did you use paypal and follow up?
  • 2 0
 @NYShred: also, I would have dropped his PB name in your comment for sure!
  • 1 0
 @Nathan6209: shop mechanics personal bikes are never a good option haha
  • 1 1
 @poozank: How about hair line fractures to the rear swing arm, worn out fork, shock stanchions and dropper post, cracks to carbon rims and a chain that has been left on for too long, wearing out the xt cassette and chain ring?

All the above are reasonably likely to occur to a year old bike that has been raced and trained on and not serviced and looked after.

I get your point, I really do. I ride an intense carbine 275 and an M9, both of which I got second hand for a fraction of the origional price.
  • 1 0
 @CaptainBLT: you can't service low cycle fatigue. Those big hits add up.
  • 1 0
 @rpl3000: That's fair, but you can inspect for fatigue. Low cycle fatigue is associated with plastic deformation - or in layman's terms "bends or dents". High cycle fatigue shows cracks. So if the frame is straight and doesn't have cracks, its probably fine. If you're really spooked, get new handlebars.
  • 2 1
 @rpl3000: We're talking about two year old bikes here. You could ride park on the same bike every single day for five years and cycle fatigue would still not be an issue.

The only real concern, in terms of condition of the alloy or carbon that makes up a given frame, is impact damage. How many and what size rocks have had intimate contact with the frame in question. That's the concern. 95% of the time, you can make a good judgement on that in pics. Honesty and Paypal buyer protection are depended on for the remaining 5%.
  • 2 0
 @TheRaven: you say only hits matter, not the stress? No way.
Frames crack at welds and other stress spots like pivots, sometimes in the first two years, usually when ridden hard. And they do it in areas that have never met the rocks.
  • 3 1
 @ismasan: What i'm saying is the idea that the alloy in bike frames just "wears out" is complete BS.

As you said, frames crack at welds and stress spots, but this is due to defects or unexpected impact. And no, the impact does not have to be at the spot of the crack to be responsible. If you crash and your frame lands on a rock edge, that impacts the frame halfway down the downtube, it's entirely possible that the welds at either the headtube or bb shell/seat tube would crack before the alloy would give way at the impact spot.

This idea that a frame that has been ridden competitively or predominantly in parks is going to be more likely to break just because it has been repeatedly "stressed" is uneducated nonsense. Alloys have has been used in subframes on automobiles for decades. Ford is now using alloys for the ENTIRE F150 body. We're talking about 5000-8000lb machines designed to haul another 2000lbs and tow another 100000lbs, and last at least a decade doing so. Just like those F150s, as long as the bike frame is ridden as it was designed to be ridden, and good mountain frames are designed for HARD riding, there's no reason to worry about it ever "wearing out" or "fatiguing".
  • 2 4
 @TheRaven: I take it you didn't do very good in science class, eh? While steel has an endurance limit where it will never fail if stress is under a certain level, aluminum, does not and will fail eventually.

Educate yourself my dear child:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatigue_limit

Most international fatigue tests for bicycles run to 100,000 cycles; that's a lot of hard hits, and generally designed around 5 years of heavy use.
  • 6 0
 @jefe: Actually I hold two engineering degrees, thank you. I do science. Frequently. Your point is not at all enhanced by personal attack either.

You're still wrong, my dear child...and your own link does nothing but say that "metal will eventually break".

100,000 cycles lasting only 5 years, assuming you define a "cycle" as a stressor approaching but not exceeding the limit of the alloy (which is a super-loose definition to begin with, but necessary given the lack of empirical data), means that you are saying that you expect an owner to essentially "huck to flat" 54 times a day for 5 years straight. Uh huh. When you return to reality, even going by this un-substantiated "standard", you're talking about roughly 30 years of life for a given frame.
  • 2 0
 @TheRaven: and this is why I don’t accept PayPal
  • 2 0
 @TheRaven: you're talking a bit arrogant here, but whatever.
Wanna buy used frames from Remy Metailler? You have my blessing.
Cheers.
  • 4 0
 @ismasan: Arrogant perhaps, in response to an arrogant comment. I'll accept that. When approached or questioned in a respectful manner, I respond in kind.

If Remy is selling a frame I want at a price proportionate to a "well used" bike, which his would certainly be, then I would definitely consider it.
  • 1 0
 @TheRaven: I've got some formal teaching in the topic myself and until we know the fatigue design requirements there is no telling what damage a bike has lurking in it. One bad huck or cased jump could be worth 100 park cycles depending on the stress. A well placed rock nick could initiate a crack depending on the location. It could have left the factory with a weld defect that meets ultimate strength requirements but is a LCF debit and acceptable for warranty claims. There is a lot of luck to buying a used bike when you think about it.

My opinion is that bike durability has plummeted in the past 10 years, but so has weight and those two typically go together.

I don't think car durability requirements for cars and bikes make good comparisons, but the physics is the same.
  • 3 0
 @rpl3000: I don't disagree with anything you said. You are speaking of defects and impact damage. I was only disputing the idea that under normal use, aluminum "wears out".
  • 65 0
 I buy lots of stuff second hand. Neither I am proud or ashamed. I’d never pay for a new complete bike for myself... my advice: find someone miserable enough to knows sht loads about bicycles to help you with a particular purchase. Don’t buy a rental bike or a bike that belonged to a racer. Swcond hand market has two rules: good things come to those who wait and windows of opportunity are made for those that are ready to jump through them. Have your cash ready and browse classifieds every day. Once an occasion pops up, grab it!
  • 86 0
 Wow...that's actual solid advice. You feelin' ok?
  • 5 0
 It depends... A DH racing sled...no... A XC bike raced by a senior, well I would check it out
  • 7 2
 that was a really astute and well thought out piece of advice, clearly you must be having a bad day.
  • 3 0
 I bought a 'used' two-year-old bike that didn't even have the original brake pads bedded in. Best find ever!
  • 3 0
 What you say about opportunities is true for new bikes too.
Now you can get a reliable light etc bike with dropper at 1500€ without discount, and if your budget goes up to 2500€ and you look for discounts, then you can get really good spec, let's say lyrik rct3 etc.

I feel spoiled. We live in a wonderful world full of good bikes.
  • 5 2
 @Uuno: my biggest achievement of second hand purchase was building a bike for a work mate. 2008 SC Blur 4X frame + Pike 2008 ( both barely used), Shimano Deore Brakes, 9sp XT, some ok bars, fresh tyres only wheels and cranks were shitty. 700$ - Please mind that Blur 4X had a rather modern geo.

And yes you are right one can also find insane deals on new stuff. My bike is an example of that.
  • 1 0
 @Jo-rides: Yep. Saw two high-end Enduro's... one an S-Works. S-Works guy bought it and decided it was too much bike. Now for sale for a bit over 3k. Other Enduro looks like an aluminum, but heavily upgraded. Owner: 50 year old guy who got it, promptly swapped trail tires on, and eventually decided it was way too much bike. He was like, well I got this for rowdier riding, and as it turns out, at 50, I don't want to get much rowdier. He said his Giant XTC is virtually the only thing he needs, so he's never even jumped/raced/park rode the Enduro. It's now under 1.6k. Love seeing the ads from guys who are overbiked. Razz
  • 2 0
 @mtbikeaddict: overbiked, almost rhymes with underskilled and underfit.
  • 60 3
 if you knew how many juicy beer farts i've ripped while riding by bike, you would never buy from me second-hand. tootles
  • 19 0
 You can tell a lot about a horse by looking at its teeth. I just bought a used 2015 bike 4 months ago, and I seriously doubted that it had more than 300 very gentle km's on it. No cable scuffs was a good indicator, original tires, no scuffs on oem crank arms or scratches on the arm ends, derailleur pulleys were almost new, dropper post had no wear. If you do your due diligence, you can score some pretty good deals out there. Talking to the person tells a lot as well. The guy I bought it from gave me a good impression, so I went for it.
  • 11 0
 I had good experiences too, but always plan a reasonnable budget for immediate repairs (something like 300-500$ depending on the bike). If you put all your money on the bike, you'll feel like you have been screwed if the bike needs some minor maintenance and you don't have the cash available right now
  • 1 0
 Yup. My last mountainbike was a used purchase from Craigslist. City dweller had never taken it off road and the front tire had been replaced with a semi-slick. I handed him the cash just as another potential buyer arrived. That full-suspension bike cost me $500 and was super fun to ride and very fun to add my custom upgrade choices during 3 years of ownership. Then, the frame cracked! Oh well....and then I bought a new bike with a solid warranty!!
  • 13 0
 Plus side on owned bikes is they have already some use, so the first nick you make doesn't hurt as much.
Makes careless riding much more fun Smile
  • 10 0
 I sell my carbon CC Santa Cruz Bronson or similar every year or 2 and get another. I'm 45, don't race and the guys who buy them get a smoking deal on a bike that has 10 years of life left in it. There are lots of good deals out there. However - Caveat Emptor.
  • 7 0
 I'll be watching for your next sale on pb!
  • 1 0
 @cyberhatter takes a big man to admit you don't use your gear to it's fullest, I applaud you sir. I used to be that dirt poor shop kid but now that I'm nearing my mid 30's and starting to make some actual money in life I find myself splurging a bit more . Not quite dentist levels but paying full retail when I'm too short on time to bargain hunt won't put me food stamps anymore at least haha. On top of that after breaking a collar bone 2 years ago and realizing I have those darn adult responsibilities now my gear abuse rate has backed off significantly. So now when it comes time to sell a nice upgrade part or bike I try to always pass on some savings to the younger or less financially fortunate riders out there...
  • 1 0
 @CONomad: exactly.
  • 12 1
 Liteville warranty covers all owners. Not a bad second hand buy in my book.
  • 4 0
 Yeah I think that goes for Nicolai too.
  • 5 0
 And Bird
  • 2 0
 @vinay: Just seen that Bird offer a lifetime transferable warranty: www.bird.bike/the-industrys-best-warranty
  • 1 0
 @carlitouk: This is genuinely the best warranty. I bought a second hand Aeris from a friend and found a crack in it when it was probably 1.5/2 years old. I rang them up and then took it in as I live locally to them and they replaced the frame no questions asked. They also built it up for me overnight, changed the headset bearings and put in a new gear cables and said it was optional if I gave them some cash for the bearings/cable which were wear items.

Again; I can't recommend work and their customer service enough.
  • 2 0
 To me there are two very distinct kinds of warranty.

1. Warranty against manufacturer errors. I think this should be transferable to a new user and it should be pretty much unlimited. After all, they received money for a good product. If they delivered a faulty product, they should make it right. Now at least in my country this is a voluntary thing. That is, within a certain amount of time if the consumer returns a product that is faulty, the manufacturer/company should either prove it was perfectly fine at the time of purchase or they should fix/replace it. After that time however it is up to the customer to prove that the product was already faulty at the time of purchase. This can be easy for instance in case something wasn't welded in the right orientation or something was drilled in the wrong spot. But how is a regular customer going to show that the post weld heat treatment wasn't done properly which caused premature cracks? You'll need to have that researched, which isn't something a customer in the modern throw-away society is willing to invest in.

2. Crash replacement program. This obviously is voluntary from the manufacturer to give potential buyers some peace of mind that whatever unfortunate or stupid happens, it won't be as expensive. Now however nice this seems, it is actually a reason for me to not buy such a product. Especially the "no questions asked" bit. Because I know part of my investment goes to those stupid enough to not properly care for their stuff or maybe even intentionally destroy it. And of course people need to accept that aluminium is going to fail at some point. Cannondale is pretty honest about that. Yes they have lifetime warranty on their frames (or at least they used to eleven years ago when I bought my Prophet fully) but that doesn't cover fatigue. Yes the Prophet is going to last longer than something lightweight like a Scalpel, but even if you ride it perfectly within its envelope it is going to crack at some point. And this really is no reason for a warranty claim.
  • 12 0
 Damnit @vernonfelton stop cock blocking my Norco sale!
  • 1 0
 But you don't have a Norco for sale... or anything else... Very confused
  • 2 0
 @mtbikeaddict: It was a joke....
  • 2 0
 @Deep-Friar: I figured... never mind me. Facepalm I was just getting all excited jumping to your profile so I could check out the Norco... been looking for one. Never mind lol. Big Grin
  • 7 0
 As far as the dirt jump bike is concerned... If it's a steel frame you can get a bolt on conversion and just crank the thing down super tight while pulling the wheel back in its drop outs. If it's aluminum definitely get chain tensioners or the drop out will gouge to the point where the wheel only wants to be in one place and that place is usually the front of the drop out.
  • 3 0
 #steelisreal
  • 1 0
 Do you know where to buy bolt on kits? I've been trying to get one but the hub I need it for is no-brand
  • 1 0
 @mattg95: it needs to be a name brand hub probably. you can get tricky and buy a solid axle and replace the hollow axle that is on a QR hub, but no guarantees there
  • 1 0
 @adrennan: steelisrael
  • 1 0
 @mattg95: I have just done exactly this to my superstar hub

www.sjscycles.co.uk/hub-spares/wheels-manufacturing-cromoly-10-x-1-shimano-thread-rear-axle-solid-nutted-187mm don't forget to buy nuts too, also get chain tugs
  • 6 1
 Buy second hand at the MTBR site, those guys that post there can’t ride and buy bikes well beyond their abilities. PB Buy/Sell get a lot of use out of their bikes so it’ll be hit and miss!
  • 4 0
 German bikemarkt is also a gem mine. For most of the trails a HT would be enough- so a 160mm bike doesnt take a beating.
  • 1 0
 @NotNamed: Agreed, and on top of that throughout most of Germany and Holland you couldn't find a rock if you wanted to so the wheelsets and suspension stay fresh and lot longer... bikes around here have the easy life compared to back home in the rockies!
  • 7 0
 Vernon felton must have one hardcore bathroom.
  • 18 0
 @Zay my first thought was, "Damn, how does he know that?" I mean, I'm trying to get more fiber in my diet and everything...

But then I realized you were referencing the cold-fusion reactor.
  • 7 1
 Does Commencal really have a 29er DH bike before a 29er AM/Enduro type bike?
  • 4 1
 "Too Good to be True" = PB trying to get us to buy expensive new bikes. Not necessary. Instead the advice given should be to look for things on the frame and components to check that the bike is in good condition and has plenty of life in it.
  • 2 0
 Ive never personally bought a used bike, but I have sold my bikes here on PinkBike and the people that get my used bikes are surprised I even let it go looking so new, I ride and I also like to baby them, when I race ill specifically say I raced on the bike, but just because people say they race doesn't mean they are Minnaar or Gwin now that is racing and putting crazy abuse on the frames, Look at where the seller is from and look at the possible races around his or her area also investigate their Instagram or Facebook the reason why I say this is because I tell the people interested on my bikes to look me up and that gives people relief on what they are buying. Shit if anything a guy can say he raced and it could be a sprint down the street hahahahaha happy hunting guys peace.
  • 3 0
 uhhhh, it's almost february. there are year end clear-out deals on every web-site. it's how i buy every bike i've owned since...forever. i wouldn't buy a used bike from someone i don't actually know, ever.
  • 3 0
 There are amazing deals on used bikes on PB There are also plenty of middle aged men that want that fancy toy and have the cash. plenty are ridden on easy trails at a slow pace. Thats the used bike bargain to look out for.
  • 2 0
 What I don't understand is why so few LBS offer the service of selling used bikes, since the major issue of selling anything expensive is trust. This is what I my shop does for me and I am more then happy to reward them by buying new from them. This is one area where online shops can't compete.
  • 5 0
 Bird warranty covers any owner of the bike for life.
  • 2 0
 @kelownakona: my original bird aeris has outlived the top end rockshox suspension and dt Swiss wheels it started with. Frame is still going strong minus a bit of paint. Average 2 rides a week for 2.5 years. I would definitely buy again
  • 1 0
 @kelownakona: They're great, I've only just bought a Aeris 145... but they're very composed in the air and descend steep stuff like a beast!
  • 1 0
 My last two bikes have been used rental purchases. I just got a patrol from Granby Ranch. The wheels were clapped out, but I knew I wanted to replace them anyways. The other components were fine. It depends on what your willing to give and take regarding the bike you want and your budget.
  • 1 0
 I'm still thrashing a 2007 Norco fluid 3.0. (26" wheels) 160 up from 150 in the back.. I raced 10 Enduros on this bike last year. Most the the races in Pisgah Natl forest. I did all of my training and multiple xc races. I don't plan on buying a new bike for 2018. I'm going to see how far I can push this one but I'm sure a new Norco Sight would do me some good.
  • 2 0
 That was a great bike!
  • 2 0
 Exactly. Nothing beats a 10 year plus relationship with a decent frame that you can add bits to as and when. I don't think love is too strong a word.
  • 1 0
 Clearly you won’t get a warranty on any used bike,if you’re lucky you might be able to warranty certain stuff at your local shop.i bought a used bike a few years ago and beat the shot out of it for about two years and sold it for the same price I paid for it.so I def vote buying used if it’s a good deal and you can verify the condition beforehand.however I spent about 1300 on said abuse fixing broken bits and keeping the suspension working and some upgrades.still saved a ton of money from buying new.
  • 2 0
 99.99% of the time not first owner, no warranty, plus its worth mentioning, most warranties are towards manufacturers DEFECT. so worn anything, pivots, drivetrains and leaky seals don't apply. even this last part applies to new bikes! you crash and bend a brake lever, cut a brake hose, its not warranty!
  • 2 1
 "but I'd sleep better knowing I had a warranty"
This is just wrong.
I would never buy a used bike I have not seen in person. But as stated earlier in this thread you likely will have to replace the transmission and tires. maybe even the grips and brake pads. But this used bike will cost you a fraction of a new bike. Take someone with you who has been riding enough to wear out a transmission or two. I'm 60 something I ride with similar friends the 3 of us have over 60 year of experience. We ride around 200 days a year and have all worn our bike and had them replaced by the manufactures. SC charged $500 for the new frame and I used the shock that was on the old bike. Trek replaced the frame but it cost $500 for a new shock. Specialized replaced the frame and charged $500 for a suitable frame shock. All these frames were five year old 26" frames. The way warranty's works these days, is, there is no way the standards will stand still so most everything will be different after five years.
  • 2 1
 I think I get why someone would buy sight unseen based on nothing more than a stranger's report on the state of things. Then I realize I don't get it at all. Trusting someone from a far off land, province or state with cooked up pics and the best description ever doesn't make the PB used bike forum a bad place...it makes you a poor decision-maker.
  • 1 0
 I've done it a few times, though always speaking on the phone first. Trust is important in our lives. I believe.
  • 2 0
 @Uuno: I don't. High-dollar items = hands-on first.
  • 1 0
 My last 2 bikes I bought new, a Capra AL Comp 1 followed by a Capra CF Pro. But prior to that I bought my 3 previous DH bikes used: a Norco Team DH, 2009 Norco A Line Park, and a 2014 Norco Aurum LE. All 3 were fantastic bikes and never had to do anything but basic maintenance.
  • 1 0
 I've scored a couple of steals in the used bike category, but also had my share of disappointments . . . including two cracked frames that I only found out about after the purchase. One machine was worth it for the parts alone. As for the other, it was all I could afford and enough of an upgrade that I'm currently looking the other way about the crack and riding it until it breaks under me Smile
  • 1 0
 I bought a Santa Cruz VP Free frame unused old stock, 2 years after manufacturer. I added a similarly bought RockShox Totem fork & built the bike up with new parts. I saved £1000 on the frame alone & around £3/400 on the forks. 26” wheels & 9 speed cassette. It still rides like a dream & the weight vs durability was a no brainier for me as I have a 2yr old & a 6 ur old kid.
  • 3 0
 A year ago they used to say Alutech was the first with a 29er dh frame. Not sure if it is still available.
  • 1 0
 I'm just waiting for the Orange strange 29er DH bike to come into production
  • 1 1
 I wonder where they are finding 29er Dorados? They are impossible to find. I’ve been hunting for one for some time for my Wreckoning.
  • 1 0
 @garygrimm: I'm 80.29 percent sure all dorados can be 29 er dorados
  • 1 0
 Maybe if you reduce the travel to 169.99 to be transparent @steepy:
  • 2 0
 @LouisEvans1 For a slipping QR rear wheel, a Surly Tuggnut is a good fix for the drive side. Also, Shimano skewers have a patented clamp that is the strongest
  • 1 0
 I also immediately thought "I bet he's not using shimano skewer"
Plus if a Shimano slips, I'll bet a bolt-on will slip too.
Lot's of tugnuts out there to choose from, or find something that can fit in front of the axle in the dropout, sometimes you can put a nut and bolt in the slot for the axle to rest against
  • 2 0
 If a standard qr doesn't work then the DT Swiss one that winds up works much more effectively
  • 1 0
 @andrew9: totally right, a nut worked for me, doesn't move
  • 1 1
 Qr’s just don’t work for single speed jump bikes don’t even try it.
  • 5 1
 Did you mean a Fox 48.99?
  • 3 2
 No only SRAM/RS is super transparent like that. Fox will lie to you and tell you its a 49.
  • 1 1
 My buddies one year old norco cracked in September and still has no frame on warranty and Rumor is it's going to be a lot longer still By then his new frame will have all new standards and none of his stuff will fit it I am sure 28.99 shit is completely worn out in 3 months These days Or maybe that's jus North shore life Where 10 k keeps you going for at least 6 months so better punt that shit and get a long travel 29 er and short travel plus for sloggy days in between the dirtjumper air rec days and snow fat days ... Hope to f it's nice for coast cpgravity on the weekend
  • 1 0
 Knowing companies like Calfee exist takes a lot of the stress out of buying a used carbon bike. Worst case, I know there’s a last resort if a frame fails. One more reason I like carbon over alloy.
  • 1 0
 I only buy bikes that haven't been raced, after a season of racing every part is hammered and basically worn out, it might look ok but it's not haha
  • 1 0
 This sounds like a note to racers to not post that they've raced their bikes. Also a note to broke riders to spend more money
  • 2 0
 OH GOD, Thank you for this. I've bought 3 bikes for great deals off of Pinkbike. I had no idea I was doing it wrong.
  • 5 7
 I tend to think that the bike coming out of the summer rental fleet from a resort is a good bet. It's been professionally maintained and you have a little bit of recourse if something doesn't work out with it, as opposed to an individual.
  • 35 1
 Not for me. The flip side of the assumed maintenance is that no single rider gives the slightest hoot about how they treat the bike they're renting for a day. There could always be a rental for sale that is in good shape, but I wouldn't typically look in that direction for a used bike. What you want to find is the OCD rich guy who is obsessive about having the best bikes and keeping them in the best shape, and at the same time doesn't ride very hard or often. That's the used bike jackpot.
  • 2 0
 I've seen rental bikes get fairly thrashed at bike parks before. I would consider the resort, type of terrain, and skill level of rental riders.
  • 4 0
 Clearly you've never been to mountain creek LOL@BiNARYBiKE:
  • 10 1
 I am guessing you have never looked closely at the rental donkeys at a resort. Maintenance is spraying them with water and occationally lubing the chain. Otherwise, if it isn’t broken, the bike is not touched. Combine this with the fact that renters ride them like they stole them and they are rented out 30+ days a year and resort bikes are the worst used bikes to purchase.
  • 13 1
 I would take a raced on bike any day over a rental bike. You at least know the racer likely takes actual care of the bike they are counting on come race day. While the bro behind the counter is spraying it down with a fire house thinking about beers and bong loads while he rolls it into the back after not drying it off....
  • 9 3
 @preach go home you are drunk. @BiNARYBiKE knows the secret. Rich dude who rarely rides the bike and sends it every half of a year to the most expensive workshop in town for service as if it was a track version of Porsche GT3
  • 2 1
 well, I guess according to yall that I "hit the jackpot" since my 2 bikes were from resorts and they were extremely well cared for and in great condition...and i paid a third of their purchase price for a same year model bike...so...good for me.
  • 1 0
 What resorts were they from? I just highly doubt they were in good shape. Also most places keep there rental fleets for years so of course it'll be cheeper @preach:
  • 1 0
 @freeridejerk888: Nah, both were 2017s bought in the fall of 2017. Remember you can actually check the bike out before you buy it, and you can "pick the best of the litter".
  • 1 0
 i knew someone who bought a bike from a resort and realized after purchase that the frame was bent... i would be skeptical of bike park demo fleets unless they extend a warranty to you.
  • 2 0
 ^^^ I've seen this also. And yes, try to get a warranty.

Most fleet bikes have had hard lives. Unfortunately they get the "It's not mine" or "I don't care about it" attitude. In addition, I'm sure maintenance varies from place to place. → Caveat Emptor.

I associate a rental bike to a rental car. What's that saying "rode hard and put away wet".
  • 1 0
 What place were they from and what was it? Also what did you pay. I'm just wondering as I've looks at portly of rental bikes and they were all f*ckED @preach:
  • 1 0
 @freeridejerk888: Mine was from Keystone. Giant Glory and Diamondback mission. I checked them out first which I understand you can't always do, but if you're around it's nice to have several to choose from. i paid like a grand for each.
  • 1 0
 @preach: from what I saw on Rental bikes in Italy, Norway and Sweden, the rims were fkd and brakes were fkd. Suspension is harder to fk up. But finding a good model thinking I’ll need to replace rims, tyres, brakes, grips may be a good shot. As long as the bike is silly cheap.
  • 12 0
 @BiNARYBiKE: "What you want to find is the OCD rich guy who is obsessive about having the best bikes and keeping them in the best shape, and at the same time doesn't ride very hard or often"

So basically buy a second hand yeti.
  • 2 0
 well the cost on the glory on your profile is VERY close to what you paid. I'm glad you got lucky with that but I can gsrentee you everything on that bike needs a rebuild unless you got a super big or small sized which won't be used as much to begin with either way I'm glad your happy with your bikes @preach:
  • 2 0
 I know the horrible things I have done on rental bikes, and I consider myself a fairly considerate person. It would take a VERY good deal for me to even think about buying one.
  • 3 1
 I don't understand how one would treat a rental bike worse than their own. I never hold back riding my own bike because I might scratch it or something.
  • 2 0
 @Dhminipinner: Ellsworth.
  • 3 0
 @WAKIdesigns @freeridejerk888 normally I'd agree based on past experience from the rockies region back home... but I've seen good stuff at some of the little resorts around here... winterberg in northern Germany sell off their V10s and Enduro bikes every year for pennies. I rented one late season once and from what I've seen they are usually lightly used as big hitters don't go out of their way to go to the little parks and the local die hards will have their own leaving the rentals to weekend warriors and the gravity-curious xc riders from the region. Probably a good pattern to follow if looking up the rental route.
  • 1 0
 The Lenz PBJ is a 29er DH bike that is available now, and has been for bit.
  • 2 0
 would anyone else hate having a saint brake on their DJ?...
  • 1 0
 Something this way NICOLAI comes.
  • 1 0
 Keep buying those used bikes boys.....keepin me busy through the winter!
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