Ask Pinkbike: Tubeless Setup, Cleat Trouble, Wide Tires

Aug 8, 2017
by Pinkbike Staff  
Tubeless Troubles

Question: Pinkbike user Nocturnal7x asked this question in the Mechanics' Lounge forum: I have Diamondback tubeless rims and Schwalbe's Hans Dampf tires, and I'm having trouble setting them up tubeless. I got one side of the tire off the rim with immense difficulty to take the tube out, and while I can get the tire back on, I can't get it into a position where the bead should seat and seal up. How does this work? Every video I've watched shows it effortlessly popping back on compared to the nonsense that I'm going through.

bigquotesI've had plenty of good ' 'tubeless tantrums' when a stubborn tire refuses to seat and seal up, and the sight of sealant all over the place and tired arms from working a floor pump as fast as possible isn't an uncommon one for many riders. There are a few tricks that can make this sometimes frustrating job a bit easier, though, with there being two important things to remember: the tighter the tire fits on the rim, the easier it'll be to seat, and the quicker you can get air into the tire, the quicker it'll seat.

The shape of the rim bed and its actual diameter - which can vary by a few millimeters - are major factors in how difficult or easy a tubeless job is. If a tire needs to fit a bit tighter on a rim, I'll often use Gorilla Tape (you can find it at most hardware stores) as tubeless rim tape, and I might even do two or three complete wraps around the rim to artificially create a tighter fit between it and the tire. Too much tape and you'll have trouble getting the tire on or off, however. The other trick is to use a reservoir pump that stores and releases a charge of air all at once, along with a tubeless valve stem that has a removable core. Taking the core out when initially seating the tire allows the air to rush into it much quicker than if it had to pass through the valve first.
Mike Levy

Stretch the tape from the roll and use a subtle side to side motion to encourage the edges of the tape to settle evenly below the rim beds.
An extra wrap of Gorilla Tape can create the tighter fit needed to make tubeless conversions easier.





Trouble Unclipping

Question: Pinkbike user @skierdude52689 asked this question in the Bikes, Parts & Gear forum:Got a new pair of 5.10 Hellcat Pros, my old ones were beat. Tried to ride today, didn't even make it to the lift before I couldn't clip out, fell next to my Jeep! Not to mention clipping in was incredibly difficult.

I tried switching between 15/20 degree release settings and that didn't help. I had to twist my foot SO much I was twisting the cleat itself. Anybody else have issues with these shoes? I'm thinking the cleat mounting position is too recessed into the sole, making the pedal pins rest on the shoe too much. So during clip out the pedal pins are engaged into the sole of the shoe.



bigquotesTipping over because you can't unclip is the worst – it's like that bad dream where everything's in slow motion, and then all of a sudden you're tangled up on the ground, bike still attached.

Your diagnosis is correct – the Hellcat's do have a fairly recessed cleat mounting positions, which is why you weren't able to unclip. Luckily, it's an easy problem to fix by installing a shim or two underneath your cleats. Most Crankbrothers pedals come with two plastic shims, so you might already have the parts on hand. Crankbrothers also makes a stainless shim, which they call a “shoe shield” – you might need to use that and a plastic shim to lift the cleat as much as you need. You can also play with the height of the pedal pins – screwing them in a little further will help give you more clearance, and make it easier to clip in and out.

Once you have everything set, sit on your bike next to a wall and make sure that you're able to smoothly clip in and out. That way you'll have something to brace yourself against rather than risk tipping over again.
Mike Kazimer

Hellcat
Crankbrothers Mallet DH
This shoe and pedal combo should work, but may require fine tuning with cleat shims.





Magic Mary 2.6", plus tire or big DH tire?

Question: Pinkbike user @Luneec asked this question in the 27.5/650b: Has anyone had any experiences with the new Magic Mary in 27.5 x 2.6? Is it a plus version of the Mary or is it real DH rubber with a big volume casing? Also, would it still fit through the arch of a Yari fork?


bigquotes I just received a pair of 27.5" x 2.6" Magic Mary's for testing. The sizing is very close to a plus size tire; on 40mm wide rims the Magic Mary casing measured in at 69mm, very close to a Nobby Nic 2.8", which was 71mm wide on the same rim, although the width of the side knobs is larger. The Magic Mary does seem to sit too square and flat on the 40mm rim and might suit a narrower rim better.

The EVO / APX / TLE casing tire with an Addix Soft compound is not a full on downhill tire but is getting closer, weighing 1080 grams. The 2.6" does fit into a 27.5" Rock Shox Yari, although the clearance isn't huge if you want to install a MarshGuard type fender and get stuck into riding in the mud.
Paul Aston

Schwalbe Magic Mary 2.6
Schwalbe Magic Mary, 2.6", Addix Soft, EVO, APX, TLE. A title contender for the longest tire name ever.
Schwalbe Magic Mary 2.6 in a 27.5 RS Yari fork
Schwalbe Magic Mary 2.6" in a 27.5" RS Yari fork






Have some unresolved tech questions? Jump in the Pinkbike Forum and we'll look to answer it for next time.


180 Comments

  • + 55
 It took me forever to realize this, but simply lifting the wheel off the ground so it's not resting on anything while inflating it make a huuuuuge difference.
  • + 43
 Removing the valve core is the best trick to seat a tubeless tire. If you have to use a hand pump Joe Blow fat bike pump works excellent to seat tubeless tires. No compressor needed.
  • + 4
 @properp: I found out that my pump, the Bontrager Flash Charger, prefers the cores in. Cores have to be clean of course.
  • + 8
 @garrettstories: mines opposite
  • + 8
 @garrettstories: I have no explanation of why that would be. The only thing a valve core does other than hold the air in the tire is restrict the flow when trying to seat a bead. If it works for you roll with it.
  • + 3
 @properp: I know. It doesn't make sense. the only thing I can guess is that the head fits both presta and schreader, and that it needs the valve core head in there to activate something to allow air to pass through more quickly.
  • + 29
 Dish soap has been my savior!
  • + 17
 Just place a full round of string around the center of the tire and tight it a little, pull the beads by hand against the rim beads and start pump with anything (floor pump, hand pump, CO2 cartridge..) and as soon start to inflate remove the string and keep pumping, is so easy and fast in this way that you don't need remove the valve core neither.
  • + 21
 A small air compressor is worth it.
  • + 0
 Ghetto / Split Tube works a treat every time. You need strong hand or metal levers with some combos tho.

A little dishwashing liquid helps too.

Also with Ghetto you can use schrader valves and remove the cores and get lots of air in.

Also using a Stans injector rather than trying to pour the sealant in while seating the tyre.
  • + 8
 I like to use soapy water in a spray bottle. I get the tire on the rim but before pumping I hit the bead with soapy water which seems to help lubricate and allow the tire to slide into the rim bed more easily. Plus, the soap bubbles help find possible leaks which could be problematic later. Hope that helps!
  • + 8
 @fabriciofracchia: I don't know why you got negged because the string around the center is actually one of the best tips. I used an old tube to strap around the outside of the tire. My problem tire suddenly inflated very easy with the hand pump.
  • + 2
 @jeansebille: I second you on that.
  • + 2
 @garrettstories: now that makes sense. The pump is the issue possibly. My Joe Blow fat bike pump works better than my reservoir pump. I got mine off eBay for $30 .I don't own a fat bike but I do like the pump. On the negative side the pump weighs as much as a baby elephant.
  • + 4
 @properp: I agree. Remove the valve core, set the bead (you can use a CO2 inflator if your floor pump doesn't do it), then put your sealant in through the valve stem, replace the valve core, inflate.
  • + 7
 You can also buy a $2 Presta to Schrader adapter that will fit onto your presta tubeless valves (valve core has to be in). Go to a gas station and use their compressed air to seat your new tubeless tires (find one that is free). Once seated, use a track pump to get the right PSI.

I started doing this... worth the 5 minute drive to have a 100% guaranteed setup every time.
  • + 3
 @gramboh: nothing is free in the land of the free.
  • + 1
 @jeansebille: I re-seated 2.5 DH casing Specialized Butchers after a year of being flat using a soapy mix of shampoo and water. Well. And a $30 1gallon air compressor with 100 PSI in the tank. Pulled the presta vale core, Tossed 1.5 oz of Stans in, pop pop. Back in the bead.

FWIW I was camping in the parking lot. Didn't bring dish soap.
  • + 0
 @fabriciofracchia: this trick has never ever worked for me
  • + 1
 @wiscobiker: agreed but I have use lighter fluid and a match to beat a tire. Works like a champ every time. As long as you don't blow the tire completely off the rim.
  • + 3
 @properp: I have seen that one for seating off road and truck tires, never wanted to risk blowing a rim bead off trying it on a bike tire though
  • + 2
 It can definitely wear you down beading a new tyre..
  • + 18
 I guess we learn when things go wrong, and I've had so much problems I think I can sum up most of the useful tricks.

Use all of them if necessary.

1. install tape (many layers as suggested will help cf article)
2. pre shape the tire : use a tube for a few hours/days at 60psi
3. keep the wheel in the air all the time if possible cf wppplayer18
4. leave one bead seated in the rim, divides all troubles by 2
5. install valve. Preferably with removable core. Ghetto valves (from and old tube, with 2-4x tube layers in small patches to put the valve through, creates the seal inside the rim) can work better than specific tubeless valves
6. dish soaped water on the tire/rim interface to help the tire slide outwards
7. pour the milk in. More messy to do it before seating, but it helps. I've heard 60ml, shop said 100-150ml for DH.. your choice
8. pull the tire outwards, so it's not at the center of the rim which is deeper
9. extreme solution : wrap something around the tire, try to create a seal even though the tire doesn't have a normal shape at this stage cf fabriciofracchia
10. lots of air and fast. Joe blow mountain, airshot, bontrager charger, compressor, ghetto airshot www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtmatxJG_zg

General tips :
- shrader/presta adapter allows to use a standard gas station compressor
- use friends, if you have any
- don't start this at 11pm with your wife waiting for you to come to bed

I laugh a bit (nervous depressive laugh) when I read "Just .. and.., no compressor needed" or ".. .., works everytime". Sometimes it is just very difficult, so it's good to know what additionnal tricks can help.
FYI my biggest battle :
Enemies : MM 2.35x27.5 bike park cheap wire bead 1,5kg version on a dented E1900 (25mm wide).
Allies : 2 bike shop mechanics, me and a friend, joe's no flat, compressor and strap. Used basically 2, 4, 5, 7, 9 + compressor. This is when my friend invented the strap technique, the mechanics hadn't thought of it and it worked.

Never underestimate the intensity of the coming challenge. It's a war. Blood may be shed, tears may flow, muscles may cramp, and numerous cries will echo.
Good luck.
  • + 3
 @Uuno: All good tips but I'm pretty sure your buddy didn't invent the strap around the tire trick. That's been around longer then tubeless mtb tires by a long shot. Been using that to seat car tires for over 20yrs. Personally I don't use tubeless but I would do this with a little soapy water to help seal the beads till it pops into place. Same technique used by countless automotive tire techs.
  • + 1
 @properp: If your not removing the valve cores your blowing it!
  • + 1
 @PAmtbiker: Best method around.
  • + 1
 I seem to be very lucky or have a flawless combo - Stans Flow. Schwalbe Tires.

I just put the tire on as usual, make sure the bead isn't sat right down on the inner section of the rim bed (It usually isn't anyway) and then 8-10 sharp strokes on the pump using the standard valve with the core left in, and it seats first time every time, then just keep pumping to finish. Way less hassle than a installing a new tube.
  • + 1
 Most tire/rim combos i've used recently and in the past (i already once gave up and went for tubes several years ago, now on my second tubeless era) have worked with minimal hassle when trying to seat new tires. BUT changing tires and and trying to re-seat one when it's been used for a few months before, then the pain really kicks in. I guess the beads stretch ever so slightly that it doesn't create a good initial seal anymore after some hard riding.
Just almost had a mental breakdown with a WTB Vigilante that seated before using only a track pump. Now had to seat the other side with a tube AND use a strap around the tire to get air in, while using airshot...
  • + 18
 Put a tube in your tubeless tyre for a day. You will then be able to pop those beads right into their sockets easily as the tube helped give the tire shape so it mounts easily with CO2 or a standard pump... works like a charm.. everytime
  • - 47
flag cunning-linguist (Aug 8, 2017 at 12:34) (Below Threshold)
 Why not leave the tube in?!!!! It still works!!!!!

All I hear is masses of effort for tubeless, burping etc. Then when you get a flat the sealant can't sort, you chuck a tube in anyway! Pointless bollocks really.

I've run tubeless tyres (just tyres to me) & tubes and have no issues.
  • + 10
 Or get (a) Maxxis tires and (b) use a damn compressor the first time you mount them. From all the hullabaloo on the forums, I thought getting tubeless tires to seat was going to be a major pain. Then I had to do it myself ones, and that Maxxis popped right into place with a bit of help from the compressor, so I started doing it myself. And that worked like a charm each and every time for my bike, my wife's bike, and my kids' bikes (all running different flavors of Maxxis tires on a number of different rims). Then I did one for a buddy with a Nobby Nic on a rim same as mine - and it was a freaking pain in the ass. Tried another Nobby Nic on his other wheel (same rim), and that worked just fine. Got curious, so we switched the tires between the rims - and the problem was that one tire. Have since heard the same things from friends over and over - never any real issues with Maxxis; Schwalbe sometimes work, sometimes not, on the same rim (so there must be some serious variances/tolerances). And everyone I've talked to who's tried Contis has told me that they'd prefer an unmedicated root canal over having to go through that experience again.
  • + 2
 @g-42: Had the same issues with the Nic's. Aside from being a pain to mount, they are a whit tire so I won't be going back. Also, you can get. Decent 3-6 gallon compressor from any hardware store. Good for mounting tubeless tires, and also putting air in your car tires.
  • + 2
 @oneplanka: I came here to post exactly this. The shape of the tire determines how easily it's going to seat. Magic Mary's out of the box are insanely stiff, I've tried (because I'm stubborn) with every set to seat them the first time, out of the box, with a compressor, and it never works. Throw a tube in there @ 60 psi overnight, pops right on.

@g-42: Tolerances shouldn't play a factor unless it's way out. Comes down to the initial shape of the tire when trying to seat. Odd shapes, the bead inward or outward, all create gaps to the rim where air can escape, that not even a compressor can overcome
  • + 5
 My technique is similar. Tube in for a couple hours, pop one bead off and tube out, tubeless valve in,soapy water, airshot and job done.
  • + 1
 @g-42: Second this. I have non- tubeless Maxxis DHFs on non- tubeless rims and they always seat up with no problems. I don't even have to use soapy water. Maxxis 4 lyfe!
  • + 1
 @cunning-linguist: my thoughts exactly!
Great name as well mate! Awesome group
  • + 1
 @g-42: I'll second that bit about mounting Continental tires and a root canal. I've done both (although my dentist kindly used anaesthetic) and I was ready to kill anyone involved in making those tires.

I'll also agree that Maxxis seem to seat very reliably and that Schwalbe can be hit and miss (They still make my favourite tires though). Specialized are another brand that has always sealed up very easily for me, probably even better than Maxxis, but I just don't like their tires as much.
  • + 1
 @g-42: disagree with the Conti statement, I've been running Conti tyres in various flavours (albeit only the premium Protection/ Protection Apex versions) on all my bikes for eight years now and I have never had a problem getting them to fit or seat when inflated.

I open my new tyres and let them sit in in their 'rolling' shape, sometimes with a tube inside (if they seemed to not want to unfold) for at least 24 hours, and probably more like 48 hrs, before installing them.
  • + 1
 @amrskipro: Never mounted one of them myself, that was purely based on what others have told me about their experiences. That said - I've never had trouble getting a Maxxis to seat on the first try - fresh out of the package, with no need for any sort of 24h wait period, or inner tube prep, etc. Just put it on the rim with no sealant, pop it with the compressor without a valve care, then add sealant, then add valve core, then inflate, spin tire to distribute sealant, done. No fuss, no sealant spraying all over the place. So perhaps if you have to do that special dance to get them into their rolling shape, the Contis might not be all that low-drama in comparison?
  • + 12
 With stubborn tubeless setups it REALLY helps to get it all taped up. Throw a tube in there, pump it up, pop the beads on the rim, then deflate the tube, unseat the bead on one side (making sure to leave the other side firmly on the rim) then add you sealant, and try again with only air escaping from one side of the tire. Almost the only way I have been able to get fat tires tubeless.... with a floor pump sometimes even.

Now the crappy part.... you've already failed to seat the bead after thinking you wouldnt need to do all this, so your tube will be covered in sealant.... but you'll be able to ride. That and nothing a hose cant wash off in 30 seconds.

I also wouldnt add gobs of Gorilla tape. The best tape I've found is 3M polyethylene film tape 483. Super light, super stretchy so it conforms to all rim surfaces very securely... the adhesive is solvent resistant, and removes without residue. Best of all worlds.... just make sure to wrap at least twice so that the pressure of big hits doesn't pop the tape through the spoke holes. 1000's of miles with no issues on this stuff.
  • - 34
flag cunning-linguist (Aug 8, 2017 at 12:32) (Below Threshold)
 Sounds like a lot of effort. Why not try a tube. New technology, but saves money, time & annoyance. What a great invention.
  • + 2
 Except if you're using a compressor, you can usually get the tire to pop on just fine with a sustained burst of air before using any sealant, just to see if everything fits right.
  • + 8
 @cunning-linguist: tubeless is a game changer for riding hard. I had to run as much as 35-40psi with tubes not to pinch flat and now running 20-25 psi tubeless.
More grip and don't have to fix snakebites every ride. And I mean every ride without fail.
Yes tubeless tyres get cuts but I can fix them trailside with worms in less time than swapping a tube.
Tubes are dead for serious gnarly riding
  • - 22
flag cunning-linguist (Aug 8, 2017 at 13:06) (Below Threshold)
 @yeti-monster: I understand your point, but in all it is invalid. All you are happy with is thicker and stronger sidewalls. Which is the reason I use the modern tyres. You can run the same pressures with tubes in, so you still get the extra grip, a tube weighs no more than the sealant. I can't see any reason not to use one based on my trialling them, all given evidence etc... run the set up, but with tubes. Also means no burping, no mess, no hard times fitting them and cheaper in the long run.

I've no idea how this doesn't make sense to people!
  • + 8
 @cunning-linguist:
It's the pinch flats! If I stuck 20 psi in a tube it would pinch first rock I hit. You can slam tubeless tyres up against the rim all day long and not puncture. Yes I still puncture but only 5 or 6 times a year instead of everytime I went out. It spoiled my rides and the people I was with.
  • - 7
flag cunning-linguist (Aug 8, 2017 at 13:23) (Below Threshold)
 @yeti-monster: of your mates weren't flatting every ride like you were, I suggest the issue could be sorted elsewhere too?
  • + 2
 @cunning-linguist: So no thorns in the UK then? Good to know.
  • + 2
 Agree, packing tape of any kind will do a better job of sealing. You don't do yourself any favors adding material to the face of the rim.
  • + 7
 @cunning-linguist: but a tube weighs much more than sealant. A 29/2.4" Conti tube is 228g, according to website of Art's Cyclery. That's 228 vs. 60g of sealant = 168g. That's six ounces of the most pleasure-sapping kind of bicycle weight there is. Combine that with ubiquitous cactus spines and sharp-edged stones here in the desert Southwest. Then combine that with pinch flatting. Yes it's true that using lower pressures with a tubeless setup increases burping when one is getting after it, but one quickly learns those limits. I’m mechanically average, at best, and have had little trouble with assorted Maxxis on Stan’s Arch, Flow EX, Nox Farlow, and Spank Oozy. Based only on the weight difference, I’ve no idea how this remains unintelligible to you.
  • + 2
 @ceecee: Correct me if I'm wrong, but tubeless is also easier to pedal because a tube is extra unsprung weight.
  • + 1
 @yeti-monster: what tires/rim you run? I pinch flat the TIRE tubeless at 35 psi.
  • + 1
 @ Legbacon: that's still that price per roll! Take that and multiply by 72.
  • + 2
 @VFreehd: on dt spline 1501 @25mm with specialized butchers 2bliss griptron. The purgatorys sidewalls don't last too well. Never had an issue with magic Marys either.
  • + 1
 @ceecee: Don't forget rim strips if you need them for your rims or if your adding tape to the rim to tighten up the beads. From what I've seen and read it's a small decrease in weight but it's in the best place to loose it. Personally I use tubes on my bike set at 28-32psi and can't remember the last time I got a flat. Probably just jinxed myself, lol.
  • + 1
 @Legbacon: yeah $40 is rough. Amazon for $22 is worth it, lasts forever. I just like that it doesnt absorb the sealant and decay, cuts a bit of the bulk/weight... but I ride flat country in Minnesota and shaving a bit of weight for the same effect as gorilla tape is worth it to me.
  • + 3
 @cunning-linguist: It ain't about the weight though I use thorn resistant tubes and could use less weight. It ain't about pressures I can run 18 front 28 rear with tubes. It's about rebound characteristics. Tubes create a conflicting rebound rate to the tyre. Tubeless makes for more predictable grip for cornering better chatter reduction for charging and less bouncing for climbing traction. They are more comfortable for long rides as well. You'll notice it way more on a hard tail or rigid.
  • + 1
 @htyler7: Tubes are heavier both sprung and unsprung? I can't tell if you're teasing. I like what @choppertank3e has to say about rebound characteristics, even if he does use thorn-resistant tubes!
  • + 8
 If you don't have access to a compressor, pick up a few presta to schrader adapters and run over to your local gas station that probably has a free compressor. Pour some sealant in, seat the beads, and then pump them to pressure with your floor pump at home.
  • - 34
flag cunning-linguist (Aug 8, 2017 at 12:29) (Below Threshold)
 Or buy a tube. Then pump it up with your pump. And ride it. No messing around, sealant all over the gaff.
  • + 2
 I've got an Airshot tubeless inflator. Great investment if you run tubeless.
  • + 2
 @cunning-linguist: how many flats have you had in the past 3 years ?
  • + 2
 @tremeer023: I bought an Airshot too, after really struggling with getting some of my tyres to seal. It is a great bit of kit. I also find that using a washing up liquid and water mix helps. And resting the wheel on the hub, so the tyre is not on the ground. Much prefer running tubeless these days.
  • - 14
flag cunning-linguist (Aug 8, 2017 at 13:09) (Below Threshold)
 @savmeister: is that the least qualified question of all time?

Does that not also require:

How many miles have I covered
How often I replace the tyres
What type of riding is it
What the local trails are made of

The list goes on.

Anyway, less with tubes than with shitty tubeless that's for sure. The tube is still the saviour on every occasion when tubeless gives out. Why not solve the problem from the off.
  • + 4
 @cunning-linguist: I dunno, when considering my last two years with one puncture vs. the two years before that with one puncture a month for two years, I think it's easy to see which is the shitty option...
  • + 1
 Exactly what I was always doing till I bought Topeak JoeBlow™ Booster Floor Pump. Never had problems with tubeless since. It is expensive, yes, but worth the money.
  • + 1
 @cunning-linguist: hi, over what time period/cumulative altitude drop have you used a tubeless system at appropriate pressures and with appropriate tyres for the terrain and for your fat or skinny ass (let's assume you shred like a mutherfocker)?
  • + 2
 @tremeer023: Spesh Blast not bad for around the same cost, haven't tried the airshot but it's a beautiful shade of blue that justifies the purchase on its own.
  • - 2
 @mrgonzo: my pleasure.
  • - 4
flag cunning-linguist (Aug 8, 2017 at 23:49) (Below Threshold)
 @BenPea: probably 2 years a time correct (circa 30 psi) and I'll agree, they are okay most of the time. But as soon as you have any issue at all, the things a flaming nightmare, as you don't tend to get a puncture in your garage at home with your decent pump! On the trail a tube IS the only swift fix. I've left mine like it in a few bikes now and have had less issues than without over greater periods. (I've had tubeless set ups since 2010) and I'm still an advocate for a tube...
  • + 3
 @cunning-linguist: bad luck then. Yes you need to stick a tube in if you flat, but I've only flatted 3 times since I converted about 5 years ago (although it was pretty spectacular when it happened, with the white stuff spraying everywhere). Burped just once when experimenting with low pressures. I used to be a once per ride flatter and needed to put 48 psi in the back to bring that figure down. Went tubeless and after teething issues have never looked back. I recently rented a Sanction in Finale and put ten holes in a tube in one go. I counted them in the van on the way back up and patched every one of the mofos... Ain't going back, especially given the weight of tubes, in the most important area to keep lightweight on a bike that gets pedalled up a lot.
  • + 2
 @BenPea: i dont even carry a tube anymore , most of the time the sealant gets it if not i carry tubeless plugs
  • + 1
 @savmeister: gotta get me some of those, especially if you can plug a hole without taking the tyre off. If I go above he one flat per year ratio, I'll invest in some :-)
  • + 2
 @savmeister: I have had no flats in 3 yrs running tubes. 85% of my riding is DJ with 32psi. Cased many jumps. The rest of time is spent on trails littered with limestone and root gardens.
  • + 2
 @MikeGruhler: me too, suppose horses for courses. If it works and you're happy with it either way, just ride it.
  • + 4
 @cunning-linguist: saying that since tubes are how you save a flatted tubeless setup, so why not start with it in the first place is about as sensical as saying that derailleurs ahould be made with zip ties instead of bolts!
  • + 0
 @Rubberelli: how does that work out you mong?

A tube was invented for just that use and if you NEED one to start with that says a lot.

A zip tie isn't designed to hold derailleur's on, therefore it will not work as well as a tube in a tyre!!!!!!! Plick
  • + 1
 @cunning-linguist: were tubes also designed to pinch flat once a ride and slow you down going uphill? (300g for a dh tube that minimises pinch risks doesn't add up to a viable solution) Apparently you don't even need a tube to fix a flatted tubeless setup, except in extreme cases. Read people's posts with an open mind, absorb the information and take responsibility for your failure to make the most of what is a step forward in tyre tech. We're all mongs once in a while, we just need to be aware of it.
  • + 1
 @cunning-linguist: perhaps if you originally justified tubes by giving us the 'sometimes new advancements are not batter than the original way" reasoning, rather than the "tubes are how you you emergency repair a flatted tubeless setup so you might as well use them to start with" logic, you might have at least convinced one or two people! But like most people experienced with tubeless, I see tubes like I see that can of tire repair foam in my car trunk.
  • + 1
 @Rubberelli: you're right they have moved on somewhat and for the better. Once I have similar performance to my car tyres, then I'll probably go full on at it, but the moment a new bike I have gets a flat with tubeless, I've tucked a tube in and never had issues since. So I guess for backwards and odd me, it is the future! But then I've always been pretty niche!!!!! :-)
  • + 5
 Trouble with tubeless. Buy DT EX 471 XM841 or Ex511 rim. Glue one layer of Gorilla tape on. Install valve stem without valve core. Buy Schwalbe, Spec or Maxxis tyre. Enjoy easy installation of the tyre. Enjoy easy pump up and tyre seating and inflation with use of a quality track pump. At worst, use Charger style pump. DT has he hit the nail on the head with the inner shape of their top rims. Fkng brilliant
  • + 1
 dt swiss rim tape works better , i used to put gorila tape(i had the 471 and have the other two now) and when time comes to take the tire off the tape comes with it.
the dt swiss tape is a lot more expensive for a roll, but it last forever and if you have to change a tire away from home you don't make a mess or have to put a tube in

as for the rims you are correct ,best rims i have ever had, i regret a bit mounting a 481 on the front instead of the 511 for my aggressive riding (proper dent) but on this 30 mm rims i have never had a tire burp, and the 511 and 471 are tough as hell, i rode down an ancient roman road on an enduro stage with a flat and it is still really good
  • + 1
 Gorilla Tape leaves a lot of mess and Stan's tape doesn't stick well to my Spank rims' bumpy profile so I went with one layer of electrical tape followed by one layer of Gorilla Tape (trimmed to the same width as the electrical tape) last time. So far so good, and it'll remove cleanly when the time comes. I might try one layer of electrical tape and one layer of Stan's next time.
  • + 1
 @tiagomano: I haven't used the DT tape yet but Gorilla works better for me than Stans. With Gorilla I can use tyre levers as I please, with Stans I have to be careful not to damage it when taking the tyre off.
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: the stans one is not good , the DT is my favorite so far, is the same as the schwalbe one but on the DT you can get the 32mm wide one that is the one for the 511/481
  • + 1
 @tiagomno: I'll try next time. My next rims will be either EX511 or Flow Mk3. I bought ZTR Arch Mk3 for my wives bike before summer and they are really really nice.Easy to work with when lacing, truing, setting up tyres. Nice nice nice.
  • + 6
 My Spank Oozy wheels are a bitch to get the tire on, but one you do you merely have to breathe on them to get them seated. Its truly magic. For what its worth I have a big air compressor, so its always been easy for me.
  • + 3
 Spank stiffy 26s converted to tubeless. Gorilla tape and two to three pumps on a Joe Blow Fat Bike low pressure pump. Pop pop job done. Don't forget to add the magic fairy dust (glitter)
  • + 1
 Yeah but fuck me are they hard to get off. Helped a guy change a tube at Whistler holy Helen was that a fight to get it off and on.
  • + 2
 @Jokesterwild: totally agree. A few Spritz of Windex always helps.
  • + 4
 WTB is the rim of choice! I love their bead socket. Gorilla tape and old tube valves cut out and sized for tubeless. I love that WTB offers a complete setup tape, valves, rims, tires, however I run ghetto beyond their rim. That crisp pop is so nice. I run 19 frt and 21 rear.
  • + 3
 unclipping.... haha.. I stalled on a steep climb and fell slo-mo, down the hill into poison oak.. thrashed around a good bit upside down trying to freakin unclip... just to be sure I completely released all the lovely plant oils to cover all the exposed skin on my legs and arms. the blisters in two weeks looked like an aerial view of the Himalayas
  • + 3
 I never want to be able to tell one of these "SPDs made me look like a f*ckwit at the traffic light" stories.
  • + 5
 @BenPea: I'm used to jamming my foot into Mallets with reckless abandon, even if you miss you're still quite secure on the pedal - easy stuff.

However, on one of my first road rides using Shimano SPD road pedals, when the lights changed I went for the sprint and went to jam my foot into the pedal. I hit the none clip side, my foot slipped off at great speed and I went flying sideways into the very old man beside me, knocking him off his bike and into the middle of the road.
I was the very definition of the "SPDs made me look like a f*ckwit at the traffic light" guy...
  • + 2
 @NickB01: exhibit A
  • + 2
 @BenPea: first time using SPDs I rode another bike to the shops on flats. Picked up the new bike and shoes and rode two bikes back to make sure I didn't fall down at the traffic lights by balancing on the other bike. As I approached my first set of lights I watched in horror as an fat frat kid played frogger with the traffic and ran straight at me full sprint eyes on the cars. He smashed straight onto me from the side landing on top of me and both bikes. When he got off I couldn't unclip and must have looked like an epileptic trying to free myself from the clips and tangled mess of bikes.
  • + 3
 @choppertank3e: Christ, it's worse than I thought. Anybody else?
  • + 1
 @BenPea: I usually unclip my right foot, press the crosswalk button, then turn my handlebars 90 degrees and chill waiting for the walk sign. One day I was a little too upright and just reaching for my camelbak hose shifted my weight enough for a slow timber to the left at a crowded intersection
  • + 2
 @choppertank3e:
After months trying to convince my Partner she should switch to clipless. She got some SPD's and headed out for
her preferred trail.
Whilst climbing she came around a bend to find the trail blocked by Walkers shoulder to shoulder across the trail.
The inevitable happened, as she wasn't expecting to stop.....Down she went.
The Elderly walkers rushed to her aid, and tried to pull the bike off her, but she was still clipped in.
So to save her knees and ankles from being torn apart she screams.
"Don't touch me I've got SPD's"
Going by the look of shock and horror on there rapidly retreating faces, it suddenly occurred to her,
they think i said STD's
LOL long and hard.
  • + 2
 @XCAussie: Brilliant. Is there already a forum thread for this? It could be a long one.
  • + 3
 My preferred method, nice and clean too:

1. Use a cord...to hang the wheel up so the tire isn't just sitting on the floor.
2. Start by seating the tire on rim without sealant, take out valve cores to aid in getting compressor air in faster if needed.
3. If you still can't get the tire to seat, ask someone to help pull the sidewalls towards the rims.
4. Once the tires have popped onto the rim, disconnect air, tire will deflate but stay seated.
5. Use a syringe... to inject sealant through the valve stem.
6. Install Valve Cores and pump to desired psi.
  • + 3
 Am I the only one with no tubeless issues? On my Flow Mk3s, I install Maxxis tires easily by hand, add sealant, apply soapy water to the bead, and inflate with my high pressure, low volume track pump. Pops on with no drama every time. I don't even remove my semi-clogged valve cores.
  • + 2
 I wanted to try the new Schwalbe Addix tires, but then I remember the times I spent screaming profanities to myself trying to mount and remove Schwalbes from Enve rims and suddenly the WTB Convict/Breakout combo I'm running doesn't seem so bad.
  • + 2
 Saw a youtube video with a great tip if you have problems. First install with a tube so you can leave one side seated after removing the tube. Then use a tire lever to seat the other side 50%. This will be enough so you can use a floor pump to pop the rest.
  • + 6
 +1 on the Gorilla tape! I won't use anything else.
  • - 1
 It's a little heavy and leaves a lot of residue. It does work well though. I've used PTFE tape the past few builds with success.
  • + 1
 So messy though when its time to take it off. Hello GoofOff... The pressure creates dents in the tape that allows the air to leak out when mounting a new tire. If you can swing it, Caffe Latex rim strips last long, don't pinch from tire levers, never take the dent shape and seal side to side on the rim. So much awesomeness. And LATEX is awesome.
  • + 1
 All Bike Tool kits should include Gorilla Tape.
  • + 3
 @Orangesicle: And here I thought you would be an orange sealant guy... Wink
  • + 1
 @railin: HAHAHA!
And I so am! Stuff works great. never thought about the ol' orangesicle.
Sadly stolen here in LA.... Intense SS with 170mm fork. Quite advanced for the day.
  • + 1
 @SoDiezl350: you mean your standard plumbing seal thread tape? I can't imagine that being very durable.
  • + 1
 @mtnbykr05: Sorry brain fart. I meant to write Polypropylene Strapping Tape.

www.amazon.com/TPS-01-Light-Tensilized-Polypropylene-Strapping/dp/B004MSKJSO
  • + 3
 I have those same shoes and pedals, and they are a pain in the ass to get unclipped without using any shims under the cleats. Had the pins as short as I could go at first and they were still hard to get out of.
  • + 29
 #flatpedalswinmedals
  • + 5
 I also have the Hellcat Pros, and Mallets. With the shims, and the set screws on the pedals set to minimal protrusion, the system works great.
  • + 1
 Same combo, same problem
  • + 1
 Same issues here. Gave up. Put cleats back in old shoes and filled the cleat bed of my brand new Hellcat Pros with shoe goo. Now I have an excellent pair of nearly waterproof flat pedal shoes with nice lace retention straps....seriously.
  • + 1
 Looking to get a pair, but hate getting stuck. Just to clarify, did you not use the two plastic spacers provided by Crank Brothers?
  • + 1
 I had the same issue with mallet E's and 5.10 vxi shoes. I loved the feel of the CB pedals but just couldn't release reliably despite adding 2 shims which made walking a bitch. In this case I think it's a case of a wide shoe and not enough room between the shoe and the crank. Ended up switching back to SPD's which don't feel as good but I'm able to unclip.
  • + 2
 There is one point I have not seen in the thread yet... First when installing a new tire, its quite easy to damage the sealing area if the tire does not go on easily and needs the assistance of tire levers.... Put the tire in the sun for half an hour or heat it up with a blow dryer to soften the rubber.. tire will mount and seal much more easily especially on hard tires.. Also don't forget the soap... Never had a problem with tubeless ready rims and schwalbe tires using this method..
  • + 1
 The whole tubeless thing, seems like a lot of trouble . I run pressures low enough to make my tire squirm and wallow , when it does that I add a small amount ,what more do you want ? At parking lots I always see little compressors and puring stuff in their tires , I ask and they tell me burping . People say no snakebites, burping instead
  • + 1
 With the right tire and rim combo, you really shouldn't be burping too much. I feel where a large issue comes from people trying to run too light of tires. They are afraid the excess weight will slow them down. I personally hate the feel of tire roll, so I run SG/DD casings on the front, and DH on the rear. Weight is def higher, but I haven't burped much since. Also, any rim that doesn't feature a UST, BST, TCS, or the like, will be more prone to tire roll and burping. Can be remedied with an extra layer of tape sometimes, but nothing replaces a proper design.
  • + 2
 That's because they don't know what they are doing. I've not had a flat or a burp in almost 2 years. 200lb rider that runs as low as 20psi front and 22psi rear to 24/26 depending on where I'm riding and the mood I'm in. Flow EX rims and Maxxis (Ardent, Ikon, DHF and DHR2) or Specialized (Purgatory, Butcher and Slaughter) tires. 29er. Hardtail. Rocky and rooty New England.
  • + 2
 I'd reckon I replace as many tires running tubeless as I did running tubes. When you find the right tire combo for your riding pref, flats will be a thing of the past. I add sealant 2-3 times with each tire before it's worn out. A 32oz bottle lasts usually 2 tire cycles F+R. Stans, Whisky, WTB valves never fail me as long as you don't over tighten the presta nut. Wtb, Stans, and Easton all have economically priced alloy rims that have a bead locking design. I did use gorilla tape for a while but found it to be messy and that it leaks through the spoke holes; which can cause problems with alloy nipples and rims. If you replace your rims frequently this won't be an issue. I now run 2 layers of Stans tape or similar, starting 3" past the rim seam and finishing 3" on the opposite side of the seam, to create a 6" overlap. This helps lock the tire in more, but also makes the tape less prone to damage. Pick your rim width and tires based off of how much damage you inflict and tire roll preference. Run a wide tread design around >30mm rims. Maxxis has the best reputation, I also like WTB and $chwalbe for tires. Don't be afraid to go with heavy duty or DH tires on the pedal bike, the weight isn't that much more (especially coming from tubes) for a significantly better ride and peace of mind. Been wrenching for 12 years, tubeless for 7.
  • + 1
 Also, I now run Orange Seal. Charger pumps are the sh!t, as are cheap compressors or air tanks. Remove your valve core and use a standard schrader chuck if you're having trouble seating it. Soapy water helps to slow air loss by way of an artificial seal, but I use it last resort. Also remember to clean your valves, usually each tire change. Putting your sealant through the valves, with the valves at 3 or 9 o'clock, is the cleanest route.
  • + 2
 @yzedf: 20-22 psi???? Do you walk next to the bike or ride the thing?
  • + 1
 @BenPea: 2.3 GRID tires on a XC bike for the rocky stuff and 2.35/2.4 EXO on the softer smoother stuff. Us XC hardtail/rigid guys have to take the smoother lines. That wheel set and bike has 2,000 miles or so on it. So yeah, ride it.
  • + 1
 In the desert Southwest you must run tubeless with adequate sealant. Or put a sealant in the tubes. Same with SoCal. Goathead thorns appear like minefields. Goathead thorns mock tubes. At the low pressures necessary to get at least some traction (less than 25ish psi) tubes will snakebike flat on the rocks. Too high of pressure and the tires will wash out on the bb sized sand over hard pack. The desert is extremely hard on tires. 2.8" fat tires are the future out here. The 2.3 category of tires cannot compete with the traction and comfort of the 2.8 tires in this desert terrain.
  • + 3
 @yzedf: Ah yes, smoother lines, I remember those...
  • + 1
 Have you tried to seat tires on WTB Frequency rims...the rim surface contains two pressed areas that allow air to escape making it nearly impossible to get enough pressure to walk the tire out to the rim ID. Crap design if you ask me....
  • + 5
 Nope. Have no problems getting tyres mounted on my wtb frequency rims. Just used a track pump.
  • + 1
 @AtticusGrinch: Double down casing?
  • + 1
 @nicolai12: used to run continental trail kings and now maxxis minion or high roller 2. Always used the exo casing.
  • + 2
 I got a WTB i25 rear rim, and the tyre (Michelin Wild Rockr) sits incredibly tight on it. Meaning very difficult to work on, but you can pump it up tubeless with a minipump first try.
  • + 4
 Every garage should have a compressor, at least a real man's garage, even some real women.
  • + 1
 before you put the tire on the rim, take a sponge and a really soapy water, and rub it on the tires bed, do not worry using too much of the soapy water, it will dry out and help during the initial inflation to sit properly. Also puting a bit of plastic lubricant on the valve where the little rubber o ring is installed helps prevent leaks. good luck
  • + 1
 Removing the valve core makes a huge difference.

Problem: the Presta side of the head on my snazzy Lezyne two-chamber pump grips the valve core.

Solution: the Schraeder side screws onto a Schraeder stem. So find a Presta rim lock ring, and a Schraeder stem cut from an old tire. Buy two micro hose clamps and a short length of 3/8" clear Nylon tubing.

Spin the ring onto your de-cored Presta stem. Slide one end of the Nylon tube over the ring, and clamp the tube over the ring. Shove the Schraeder stem into the other end of the Nylon tube and clamp that end. You're good to go. But first run some TriFlo around the tubeless tire beads

Happy pumping Smile
  • + 1
 How to mount Kenda tyres tubeless. First un box Kenda tyre and pull out any folds to get it as round as possible. Next add 200ml of lighter fluid and rotate the tyre slowly to get an even coating. Now you will need a lighter or a match, I use a barbeque started style one but it doesn't matter that much. Now light the fluid and watch it burn, the flames should keep you nice and warm while you install new Maxxis Minions. That's how I do it anyway, chanting burn Kenda burn is optional!
  • + 1
 Never had any problems installing my Kenda tires, usually they pop right in (with a floor pump) and seal immediately. Tried on various rims, worked every time.
  • + 1
 @zimtsticker: I never had a problem either lit fist time everytime!
  • + 1
 Never had any issues mounting specialized or maxis tires on either my i9 enduro 305's or Roval Traverse's. FIrst go, no tricks flloor pump each time. Maxxis in particular have never given me any trouble.

+ 1 on the guerrilla tape! worked like a charm on the rim I set up.
  • + 4
 FYI diamondback blanchard wheels are notorious for being a pain in the butt to remove a tire from.
  • + 0
 basically came here to say this!!
  • + 1
 I know this from experience sadly. At least it will never burp!
  • + 1
 Yes, this. I broke all of my tire levers trying to fix a flat, so I took it to a shop. I watched them break three more levers to take off ONE TIRE. Crazy.
  • + 1
 @ pinkbike staff I was just wondering about the stench of death in Old tubeless setups. I know this is caused from bacteria. Are there any health related issues in Old tubeless sealant. I know that some Brands get funky much quicker than other brands.
  • + 1
 I've never had any trouble seating a tubeless tyre with a track pump after watching a UST video on here many years ago. Now using TRs but the concepts the same, put the bead in the inner channel and then inflate. It's a smaller area to start with and makes it much easier.
  • + 1
 When checking that a tire fits don't forget to compress your fork entirely to make sure the crown doesn't contact tire when you go full enduro bottom out. You don't want your front wheel stopping then!
  • + 4
 Unless I'm missing something, bottoming the fork shouldn't change the distance between the crown and the tire. I never go full enduro though...
  • + 3
 @VtVolk: The crown that the steer tube is attached to can come down on the tire. The distance between the arch and the tire doesn't change under full bottom.
  • + 1
 @WolfStoneD: have you ever had one that didn't clear? I'd imagine fork manufactures would design it that the crown wouldn't come lower than the highest point in the arch. Now I can imagine with a dual crown if you run it too low, but a modern fork should accommodate as large as a tire you can run in the arch, for bottom out. Idk I've never tested that.
  • + 1
 @mtnbykr05: Personally no, I was just clearing up the statement @Brauck made that at least 3 people don't get.

I usually only run a 2.3-2.4 tire though I'm not into the 2.8 stuff
  • + 1
 @mtnbykr05: I remember seeing it on older Marz stuff when running tires that barely fit width and crown came down onto tire if you pulled the top caps and pushed the fork to "bottom out" position. Like Gazzalodi and Junior T was it???
  • + 3
 It never ceases to amaze me that people don't just get a $50 air compressor at Harbor Freight.
  • + 2
 Make sure you get that extended warranty, son! Cop a new one every two years for $20.
  • + 2
 Why? Joe blow never let me down.
  • + 2
 a small squirt of dishsoap/water or isopropyl alcohol on the beads is a big help to get the tire bead seated for the install of a new tire.
  • + 1
 Gorilla tape cut to exactly rim interior pulled tight with stans racing fluid. Ran soooo long till I started expirementing with lower tire psi !
  • + 1
 Maxxis on WTB Frequency rims. Lube the tires with a little soapy water and they pop right on with a compressor. No hassle, no punctures.
  • + 1
 not sure if anyone has already said this but remove your valve core to seat the tire, especially if its gunked up with any sealant.
  • + 2
 They do make a 1 inch Gorilla Grip tape roll which you don't have to cut for most sized rims.
  • + 1
 Nothing beats a real ust rim with a ust tire or tr tire ,a little stans and your fine
  • + 1
 Dude 38mm is OS width/32mm inner. Not fatbike. I run Maxxis 2,5/2.4 DHF/DHR WT tires.
  • + 1
 Hi,
Where did you get those MM 2.6? On their website there is only the DH version wich is 1.4kg and rigid bead...
  • + 2
 I'm quite happy with mavic ust.
  • + 1
 +1 on the reservoir pump. well worth the extra $40 I invested instead of getting a normal floor pump !
  • + 1
 Tubeless is easy and worth it. There is some good advise here....give it a shot a few times you will be a pro !
  • + 1
 They featured my question? That's pretty cool! And thanks for the tips!
  • + 1
 Those 2.6 magic marys look dope.
  • + 1
 Just get a compressor.
£30 from Aldi
  • - 1
 Gorilla tape sucks for tubeless application. Get a roll of Kapton tape on Amazon instead.
  • + 1
 Gorilla Tape has a clear repair tape now that is the best I've used. I've used them all. A single layer as well. It comes 38mm wide which is perfect for my rims. Super stretchy and sticky. But does not break down like the Gorilla Duct Tape typically does when using Stan's sealant. Gorilla Duct Tape glue is a bitch to remove on carbon fiber rims after you remove the tape.
  • + 1
 38mm? For tubeless fatbikes?
Below threshold threads are hidden

Post a Comment



Copyright © 2000 - 2019. Pinkbike.com. All rights reserved.
dv65 0.063334
Mobile Version of Website