Ask Pinkbike: DIY Boost Hubs, Mixing Suspension Brands, and Softail Suggestions

Feb 23, 2016
by Pinkbike Staff  
Ask Pinkbike Header

Here at Pinkbike we get inundated with all kinds of questions, ranging from the basic "Can I have stickers" to more in-depth, soul searching types of queries like if you should pop the question or what to name your first child. Ask Pinkbike is an occasional column where we'll be hand picking and answering questions that have been keeping readers up at night, although we'll likely steer clear of those last two and keep it more tech oriented.



Adapting a Standard Hubset to Fit a Boost-Width Bike

Question: kaslowski asks in the All Mountain, Enduro & Cross-Country forum: Long shot, but does anyone know if you can boost a Mavic Crossmax ST hub? Are there any brands that are even compatible?


Boostinator Boost 148 adapter kit
Boostinator Boost 148 adapter kit
Lindarets Boostinator kit uses a longer axle stub and a brake rotor spacer to convert a 142mm rear hub to the 148 Boost width.

bigquotes Unfortunately, at present, there is no practical way to adapt Mavic wheels to the Boost 148mm standard. The right side of the rear hub cannot be spaced over, due to cassette and chainline issues, and spacing the left side the extra six millimeters will offset the brake rotor inboard of the caliper. There is, however, an adapter kit available from Lindarets called the "Boostinator" which presently fits DT Swiss hubs and will soon be available for hubs and wheels from Hope and White Industries. The Boostinator kit includes a longer left-side endcap, a special spacer for the brake rotor, high-strength rotor screws, and instructions. The modification also requires the customer to shift the wheel's dish three millimeters to the left to re-center the rim, and simple instructions are given that should allow relatively competent home mechanics to accomplish the task in fifteen minutes or less. Adapting the front hub requires a special right-side spacer and the same re-dish treatment to center the rim. MSRP ranges from $24.95 to $39.95 per wheel. - RC

Boostinator Boost 148 adapter kit
Boostinator conversion of a 142mm DT Swiss rear hub to Boost 148mm width.
Boostinator Boost 148 adapter kit
...and the conversion from a 100mm DT Swiss front hub to the Boost 110mm width.






Mixing Suspension Brands?

Question: WillCoates asked in a direct message: I'm fitting a Float X2 to my all-mountain/enduro bike (whatever you wanna call it). A local suspension guru was saying that the new X2 will completely outclass my Rockshox Pike RCT3, and will make the bike feel unbalanced. Just wanted to hear your opinion on this and see what your impressions were when comparing it to whatever fork you used when you were testing it.


bigquotesThere's absolutely no reason that you can't run your Pike up front - the Pike and the X2 both have enough adjustments that you should easily be able to achieve a balanced suspension feel, despite what that so called 'guru' told you. I've run the X2 paired with a Pike, a Lyrik, and a Fox 36, and was happy with the results in all instances.

It's a misconception that shows up every once in a while, the idea that there's some kind of rule against mixing different brands of suspension. Sure, there are rear suspension designs that work better with one brand or model of shock over another, and companies often test shocks from multiple companies before deciding which one to spec, but there's nothing wrong with having a Brand X fork paired with a Brand Y shock. Take a look at the latest Santa Cruz Bronson for example - Fox handles the rear suspension, and RockShox takes care of the front.
- Mike Kazimer

Santa Cruz Bronson
The Bronson may have two different brands of suspension, but they mesh well together out on the trail.






Softail Shredder

Question: Pinkbike user Toopysteps asked this question in the All Mountain, Enduro & Cross-Country Forum: Hi, I am looking to get my 2016 bike shortly and I'm thinking of a lightweight softail instead of hardtail this year. The problem is I need a 15" frame and preferably 27.5 wheels. Any ideas?


bigquotesAs it happens, I have spent an unhealthy number of hours researching cross country racing bikes this week. I stumbled across a bunch of 2016 bikes that could suit your needs from Trek, BMC, Canyon and Orbea. The BMC Team Elite is the only true softail using 'Micro Travel Technology.' An elastomer damper gives up to 15mm of travel and can be swapped between three different durometers to change the stiffness. BMC only offer 29" wheels for the Team Elite, but the XS size frame has the extra low standover height for smaller riders.

Trek have introduced their new 'IsoSpeed decoupler' technology on the new Procaliber model, which was originally developed for their Madone road bikes. The 11mm of compliance only works when sitting down as the decoupler lets the seat tube move independently to the top tube/chainstay junction. This means you should find hardtail efficiency with added seated comfort. Trek's 'Smart Wheel Size' geometry means that the 13.5" and 15.5" models use 27.5" wheels and all the larger frames use 29" hoops.

Canyons stunning new Exceed bike combines flex in the rear triangle along with their new bendy seat post to smooth out the trail. Their video suggests 10.9mm of total travel, but like the Trek, that seat post won't be eating any bumps if you're standing up. Their XS frame size also sees the drop down to 27.5" wheels while all others are 29". The top of the range CF SLX 9.9 LTD is likely the most expensive and lightest direct sale bike to date at 9000 Euros but weighs a measly 7.9kgs.

Orbea claims their new Alma and its '4X4' system makes the frame 211% more comfortable. Instead of designing the frame around two, three-point triangles, the frame gains a pair of extra angles making two quadrangles (or irregular squares?). These extra angles add compliance by adding flex points the structure. Orbea offers the widest range of wheel sizes here: 27.5" for S/M/L and 29" in M/L/XL sizes. - Paul Aston

BMC Teamelite 01 MTT
BMC's Micro Travel Technology gives 15mm of adjustable damping.

Canyon Exceed. This diagram show the total compliance gained from the flexible seatpost and rear triangle.
The all-new Canyon Exceed. This diagram shows the total compliance gained from the flexible seatpost and rear triangle.
Trek 2016
Trek's IsoSpeed allows the seat tube to move up to 11mm independently of the frame.
Orbea Alma. The extra angles in the seat stay and top tube are said to give 211 more comfort.
Orbeas' Alma. The extra angles in the seat stay and top tube allow some flex are said to give exactly 211% more comfort.




Have some unresolved tech questions? Jump in the Pinkbike Forum and we'll look to answer it for next time.


161 Comments

  • + 149
 I kinda feel like MTB is going through what moto did a number of years ago with all these new standards. Like moto went through that period where they were advancing and changing a ton in a relatively short period, but for the past recent years dirt bikes really haven't changed all that much, just small improvements....sound familiar? Maybe mountain bikes have gone through the extremes of geometry and we have found a happy medium, I mean so few people can truly ride a modern trail bike to it's limits. So now we have all these small changes like plus sized tires and boost crap. It's a bummer that people now have to ask ways to convert their hubs to boost because so many of our one year old bikes aren't up to snuff now, not that matters really though, my 142mm spaced bike still kicks ass, and I can't out ride it.
  • + 13
 But I don't know, maybe I'm way off
  • + 42
 No, I think you've got a handle on it.
  • - 103
flag SteveDekker (Feb 23, 2016 at 13:02) (Below Threshold)
 Yeah I'd say you're way off!
  • - 78
flag SteveDekker (Feb 23, 2016 at 13:24) (Below Threshold)
 Its not the first time standards have changed, but when you're young you only know what you have experienced. Not much. I have bikes older than you. Change happens, companies cant keep selling the same shit, so they make you believe you need new shit. It keeps happening with one component or another; its a continuum.
Whining about it is like complaining about the weather, does no good.
  • + 64
 that suspension "guru" is nothing more than a fanboy. thats exactly what adjustments are for
  • + 33
 @CGalbreath nope. someone says this whenever a new standard comes out.We thought that when 20mm came out and again when 15mm came out, then again when 142mm came out. f*ck... 9mm 100mm front and 135mm rear, 10mm bolt on front and rear, 20mm by 110m front, 9mm rear qr, 20mm front m axle, 20mm rear m axle, 15mm by 100, 12mm by 135, 12 by 142, 12 by150, 12 x 148, 12 x157, i quit. it's been "small changes" since the f*cking 90's thats 20 years!!!

I'm definetly missing some too haha. f*cking mountain bike standards.

ps. i'm not going to start on headset size, bb size, handle bar size hahhaha
  • + 41
 Despite all the pain in the butt from changing standards, I for one am IMMENSELY glad that we have 15mm through axles instead of 9mm quick release. Looking back, those things terrify me.
  • + 14
 @ratedgg13 f*ck that. they changed them just because after 20mm was introduced. with m axel light 20mm the weights were damn close but they changed it anyways.
  • + 18
 @makripper I didn't differentiate between 15mm and 20mm through axles. I'd happily have either of those over a quick release axle is my point.
  • + 3
 I think the MTB industry is going through way more sudden changes than moto ever did. Moto has evolved over time - nothing ever like this (29, slack geometry, Boost, 27.5, 27.5+ and so on). Those are MAJOR trends that have happened really, really fast.

The 4-stroke shook up the moto world when Yamaha put Doug Henry on it in '99, but it has a long road to travel before it was the machine it is today (which in-turn has made the 2-stroke nearly extinct today; KTM being the major exception).\

I'm blown away at all the overnight trends coming out of the mtb world and so quickly being adopted as "standards".
  • + 6
 The new standards are bs in my opinion. It's cool to have options but why have we completely given up on 26" wheels? The banshee darkside is promoted as having extremely short chainstays for an easy to whip and jump bike. But then look at the geometry with 650b. 17.1" chainstay in the slack position. That's the new short chainstay? At least banshee is one company that still offers a 26" dropout that allows people who actually want a 16.5" rear end and proper bb height.
  • + 3
 Mountainbiking is still evolving and in my opinion no where close to stable yet.
- Travel wise we seem to have stabilized eg no more +200mm forks but everything else is still changing.
- Rear axles are not stable at all! As DT has already made clear (amongst others) 148 boost is just the tip of the iceberg.
- Suspension technology seems to be stabilising as well with most brands making very decent suspension.
- Tires have also stabilised although plus/fat tires will probably be evolved further to allow lighter weight without paper thin sidewalls.
- Procore and other tubeless technology will continue to evolve and hopefully one day flats will be highly unlikely without resorting to heavy tires.
- Geometry will continue to evolve in the direction of longer and slacker because as has been said by many experts we aren't even close to the limits.

There have been needless changes for sure:
1. going to 35mm diameter handlebars from 31.8mm,
2. going to 15mm axles when 20mm was already available plus 20x110mm was already boost and thus 20years future proof!!!

People still gripe about the new wheelsizes but the fact of the matter is that just like 200mm double crown forks are better than 180mm ones for DH bigger wheels are better. In a few years there will only be 2 wheel sizes with several different widths for the different tires i.e. no new 559mm rimmed bikes being developed though just like 8speeds cassettes the rims/tires will still be sold though of course not at the highend scale.
  • + 1
 Can't agree more with the above point on 20mm hubs. I skipped a few years cycling and whet I returned 20mm had disappeared and been replaced by the narrower 15mm standard, which has now just got wider again.
  • + 4
 I'm way off modern standards:
20x110 in the front
Shimano Saint 2008 axle mounted rear mech (2008 was no rapid rise, the 2009 and later generations were no longer axle mounted)
octalink BB and cranks
26" wheels
2x9sp drivetrain
straight 1 1/8 " steerer
IS brake mount front and rear
27.2mm seat post diameter (and 26.8mm on the DMR)

Luckily I don't have the oversized centerlock for the Saint hub and rotors Smile .

The thing is that typically the top end components are the first to comply to new or different standards. So if these quickly become obsolete (say, a new standard doesn't make it) these expensive components become hard to get replacements for. This Saint centerlock mentioned above, rapid rise stuff, full 1.5" steerer. I think it becomes harder to justify spending a lot on an expensive frame. Say you got a nice titanium Commencal 4X hardtail (2012), you'd expect it should last you a while. Then a few years from now you'd have to replace the fork and rear hub. So that's a straight steerer for a 26" fork. And a 135x12 thru axle hub in the rear. Chances are you can't get those from the high end brands anymore. Sure the sub top (Suntour etc.) will step up and probably do just fine, but it is not what you had in mind when you bought a bike for life. I'm not saying progress shouldn't happen, 142x12 sure is better than 135x12 but progress nowadays definitely makes you hesitant about investing into something new and valuable.
  • - 2
 Aren't motocross bikes change a lot as well? For instance, axle diameter?
  • + 1
 I don't really give a frock what the axle standards are in motocross. This is pinkbike, I'm here to read your posts and flames about......get this, let it sink in........mountain bikes !!
  • + 1
 Exactly. @mountainfish Mountain Bikes! Motoheads theres another site for you.
  • + 2
 for dirt bikes the only major change is fuel injection and air forks but the good thing about dirt bikes is that you can put that new stuff on a older one, like suspension, probobly not fuel injection but most of the other technology
  • + 1
 @mountainfish: right on!!! were talkin MTB baby!!!!
  • + 103
 How to adapt to Boost hubs: wait 2 years for new standard to emerge
  • + 47
 You mean 2 weeks?
  • + 10
 This is just like boost but with none of the benefits........
  • + 2
 The benefit is having almost as stiff a setup without buying new hubs and relacing your wheels.
  • + 26
 i drink a boost for breakfast, 12 speed for dizzert...
  • + 0
 ^This
  • + 10
 Sorry, my "this" comment was in response to maxlombardy. He has it exactly.

I'm using the Boostinator (at least part of it) on my Mavic Crossmax, latest version of those wheels. It works perfectly. Just on rear as my fork is not Boost.

Shifting is unchanged as the cassette spacing is unchanged; braking is perfect (no rub, perfectly centred) as the 6mm spacer between the rotor and the hub moves the rotor over. Redishing the wheel 3mm took about 10 minutes.

Because Lindarets doesn't make a NDS end cap for Mavic I had one made up by a machinist.

It's a great way to be able to use your existing wheels in a Boost frame.
  • + 7
 I read an article a while back, might have even been RC where they said that wider hub spacing was a good thing but they were saying that if they were going to change it they should have gone significantly wider than boost to create a lasting standard. Where boost was more a half measure that would be surpassed in the future as an even wider standard would be needed(wanted)
  • + 1
 Honestly I think it's just silly putting adapters on a 142mm or 100mm hub. I feel like doing that may compromise the "stout" factor. Plus you're missing the whole point since the flanges are the same width as they were before...
  • + 1
 Probably in relation to impending 12speed........
  • + 1
 @jon123rjk I believe you're missing the point of boost. Simply a placebo effect with the adapters. Plus why the hell would you spend the money buying a "Boost Frame" and fork and then not bother buying a new set of wheels? Even if you had a nice set of hubs you might as well hold on to those for your non boost bike. I'm pretty sure you still have the same stress on the spokes with or without the adapters. So ya you're missing the point of the wide flanges which alleviates the stress.
  • + 0
 Dishing the wheel 3mm over because of the adaptors would give you a less dished, thus stronger wheel using a 142 hub.

What Pyga have done on the stage max is the right idea. Move the cassette outwards, allowing a more symetrical and wheel.

While on the rear wheel I can see there is a marginal benefit, Boost on the front is just a waste of time unless you're called $RAM and are in it for the Dollar.
  • + 4
 I think a placebo effect would be if I thought the wheels were stronger with this solution. I don't at all. I do think they're AS strong at least. And the point is it allows me to run my existing wheels in a boost frame.
That's all.

The frame I wanted -- the new 5010 -- came only with boost. Sure in an ideal world I should buy new wheels with boost hubs.
But the only wheels I'd want to replace my Crossmax would be carbon. That's minimum $1200USD. Not sure if you know anything about our Cdn dollar but it suck right now. So those wheels are closing in on $2000 Canadian.

At some point I'll spring for them but for now the Boostinator is a great solution.
  • + 1
 @jon123rjk: Still liking this setup? I'm contemplating it for my bike as I'm in the same situation. Would have to buy the Boostinator and a new rear cassette but would be a ton cheaper than completely rebuilding the wheel and having half boosted wheelset. Thanks!
  • + 1
 @ptldbkr: I ended up getting a new wheelset with boost rear hub.
I still have the other wheelset with the Boostinator as a spare. I used them for a few months and it did the job for sure if you want to keep your existing wheels.
It's not perfect but it is a great -- and inexpensive -- way of running your existing wheels in a boost frame.
  • + 1
 @jon123rjk: 6 months later on this thread! Hahaha what did you not like that was not "perfect?"
  • + 80
 Somewhere out there is a confused noob trying to order a Fox Pike for his 27.9er
  • + 1
 ^^Comment win!
  • + 1
 Thanks dude. That's the only laugh I had all day. Too funny.
  • + 1
 100% win.
  • + 2
 spit my coffee out
  • + 50
 This Q&A pretty much hits on 3 main issues that mountain bike purchasers are sick of.

1. Axle standards that keep changing which makes old wheels obsolete.

2. Shop employees who don't know jack about tuning suspension.

3. Smaller bike riders who have to compromise to get a bike that suits their needs.
  • + 14
 I'm convinced that there really is no such thing as the "perfect" suspension tuning. There's just the tuning that works for each individual rider, and the ideal tuning can vary a TON from one rider to the next.

The most helpful suspension gurus can guide you toward finding settings that work best for you, but it's a process.

Anyone who says they'll set up your suspension for you is full of crap.
  • - 5
flag faul (Feb 23, 2016 at 13:53) (Below Threshold)
 I think the "guru" is misunderstood here.
After trying some different quality of suspension on my bike, I can say when the shcok is much better than the fork, (or if the fork is much better than the shock), you can have a feeling that the bike is "unbalanced", not that the adjustements aren't on par, but the lesser quality part feel even worse that it really is.
I had this feeling when I replaced the cartridge in a boxxer, the vivid felt good with the old cartridge, but the bike felt like a bouncing hardtail with the new one.
  • + 13
 Not really misunderstood at all. For the 'guru' to say a Pike will be totally outclassed is nonsense. We all know riding a genuinely shitty or older piece of suspension with something much better on as well will produce a difference. But to say the Pike would be outclassed by the X2 is just being dim-witted.
  • + 6
 Lol, to add to that comment, the "suspension experts" at my former bike shop took it upon themselves to "even up my suspension," presumably so it felt the same front and back. Needless to say, it rode like sh!t cuz they knew nothing about me.
  • - 5
flag KUNTHER (Feb 23, 2016 at 15:28) (Below Threshold)
 Sorry to say but the pike is outclassed by Fox right now. Take them both fully apart and you will get it. The low speed on the pike is a joke. The thread on the needle is way too course. You only have about 4 clicks from closed before it's actually fully opened.... The rest of the adjustments are useless. New fox low speed actually has a full and very linear adjustment. The new X2 is so far ahead of anything rockshox is currently doing. I own a pike and love it but it had its time 2 years ago when it outclassed fox. There is nothing but truth to the fact that new fox outclassed rockshox. Rockshox will have there time again in a few years. This has been the trend for a decade now.... they share the #1 spot and take turns.
  • + 1
 The pike is outclassed by fox? So, a single fork is outclassed by a whole brand. Reasonable logic. Clearly you have a favourite in this argument, whereas I just think a 'guru' saying a pike is effectively useless when used with an x2 is a total cock-womble and ahoukd be treated as such.
  • - 4
flag KUNTHER (Feb 23, 2016 at 15:46) (Below Threshold)
 Haha yea man. Let me break it down for you then. Rockshox has its best..... The charger damper and Fox has it best... the fit4. The new fit4 is soooo much further ahead in tech and adjustability the the charger is. And I do have a favorite in this conversation. It's the pike for me but I still won't deny the the new fox offerings are simply better quality and performers. I like the pike because it works better for my weight and preferences and I hate Fox customer service but it's still doesn't mean that fox is in a different class. Because it is. I also run an old Push mx tuned Fox out back and love it. The Guru is correct by stating that the Fox outclassed the pike but very wrong by saying it won't be balanced. Suspension is all about personal preferences but fox is making a high class product at the moment.... PERIOD
  • + 4
 See... What you have done, is somehow make out like I said either was shit? I know fox are making great stuff, everyone knows that they are.

But again, to be a 'guru' and tell somebody that they can't ride a pike and an x2 together is just nonsense of the highest order. That's all I said. I'm pretty sure santa cruz know if a bike rides ok... They aeem pretty happy with the combo for them. So to say they can't work together is ridiculous.

You turned it into a baffling argument about whether fox are good or not.... Which I never said.
  • + 1
 I run a zocchi 350cr and a float x ctd on my commencal v4AM and have had 2 dudes from the same shop tell me that A. it won't work and the bike will feel dead. or B. is a sweet set up and that I made a good choice spec'ing it.....

There is almost zero consistency in around here (Sydney) when is comes to your LBS.


(the mixed suspension works a treat btw)
  • + 38
 211% more comfortable.
What bollocks.
What makes a rig more comfortable is how you ride it. I can have as comfy a day on my frankly awesome steel hardtail as I can on my €ndur* rig.
I wonder what it takes to be 212% ?
  • + 0
 This dude is so right. If you're a good rider, you won't need dual suspension most of the time. Only for insane rought stuff is when you really need it.
  • + 4
 I would've argued with you a few months ago, until I bought my Trek Superfly SS (rigid singlespeed). It's a blast to ride, and like @molloser said a full suspension rig is overkill for many trails. My local mellow trails are so much more fun on the rigid, it's really opened my eyes up. My Yeti SB5 has been collecting a little dust!
  • + 4
 Saw a research where they showed fullies even are faster on many xc trails. It allows you to keep pedaling better on bumpy ground and the time you save with faster descents roughly neutalizes against the time you save up hill by having a bike that's 1kg lighter (hardtail). I love riding my ss rigid Kona Unit, but I'm better off on my fully purely because of back aches after riding the hardtail. If your back is shit like mine, a fully is much better. Purely because it puts less stress on my back so I will be able to keel mountainbiking till an older age than if I'd mainly ride a hardtail on trails. I love how rigid hardtails feel though and they do make you a better rider.
  • + 5
 I'm hoping that caption was a joke.
  • + 5
 how much for the yeti?
  • + 5
 @ molloser I agree, I'm 59yrs old this year and ride a Banshee hardtail, going full suspension when I get older.
  • + 1
 @molloser Agreed! I enjoy riding gnarly stuff on my hardtail. Granted, it's a cheap bike and stuff breaks on it a lot, but it's a cool change of pace. Still prefer full sus though.
  • + 27
 I rock a db air and lyrik and it works just fine. My only problem is how tight my pants get when I ride that set up. It makes it really hard. Get it? It's a dick joke. I'll leave now.
  • + 14
 Have you tried adding some extra angles to reduce that stiffness? Just 1.256mm can increase your pants-comfort by 34.875% Those are totally real world numbers, not something we thought of in a marketing meeting.
  • + 22
 Is the 211% sarcasm from Orbea, or are they serious?
  • + 33
 Totally serious. Didn't you know the equation for objective Comfort is

C = B_u * l^2 / sh *it

/sarcasmOutTheAss
  • + 1
 haha your fuc*@(@% Einstein of mtb
  • + 9
 Everybody knows that comfort is very easy to scientifically measure, all you need is a good quality comfort-meter. I use mine all the time when scoping out new tires, chains and valve stems. I even bought a sofa-nator conversion kit for it so I can measure the comfort of my couch.
  • + 5
 Hi @biking85, @dclinton, @AdamOdh and @ecrider,

Just to clarify. We say that our new Alma has a 211% improvement in vertical impact absorption. This number is the result of a testing comparison between our 2012 Alma and the latest one. A fixed weight was applied to the saddle and deflection of the seat post was measured. A combination of reduced seat post diameter and slimmer seat stays on the newer design amounted to just over twice as much deflection. We called this "comfort" because "vertical deflection" might be more accurate but isn't as meaningful when talking about what the rider can expect to feel. Sorry for any confusion!

Regards.
  • + 0
 @orbea .... and now it's silent
  • + 16
 If you genuinely had to match f&r suspension, I feel the CCDB would become a bit less popular!!
  • + 2
 Yeah no kidding. My CCDB/Pike setup is awesome.
  • + 12
 "the new X2 will completely outclass my Rockshox Pike RCT3".

Ugghh...I can't stand bike shop elitists who come up with ridiculous ideas like this. Really? The X2 is going to outclass one of the most premium suspension forks on the market? As if there are absolute REQUIRED setups you need to shell out huge money for in order to achieve the ultimate performance. Such a load of BS. I've heard so many stories of newcomers being snowblinded by fast talking salespeople and 'sweet-talked' into to make purchases they ultimately didn't need (or worse yet, entirely put-off the sport by these snooty, elitist attitudes), not to mention the brutal personal experiences I've had over the years! It seriously drives me mad.

A bit of a side-rant here, but these stories often remind me of all the times we hear the "support you LBS" mantra, and it seriously makes me wish I had an LBS that supported ME so devoutly! Sadly, the number of times I've been screwed outweighs the number of times I've been offered a helping hand.
  • + 3
 Same here, bad experiences with shops. Until you find a good one.
  • + 2
 Aww yeah! My bike shop is 200km drive away. There's local shops, but it's just not the same.
  • + 7
 To be fair the guy didn't say the "guru" was from a shop, I mean maybe he was, but it's not necessarily the case, plus there are plenty of A-hole know-it-alls out on the trails, or commenting on forums Wink
  • + 1
 lol! and most people haven't ridden either the x2 or the pike, let alone on the exact bike the guy has. too many variables.
  • + 2
 gozerthegozarian For sure...I'm definitely generalizing and/or reading between the lines a bit here. Sadly, it's since ALL of the bad a-hole biker experiences I've had (or heard of) were from a shop. The ones I've met on the trails have all been great! Except whistler bike park....still a few d-bags roaming around there, unfortunately.

PS. That's my honest (and very disappointing) experience, by the way.....not just a jab a whistler. I was actually seriously unimpressed by some of the total jerks our there who think that park was built just for them : (

Luckily, for both bike shops and whistler, it's a FEW bad apples who are spoiling an otherwise GREAT community of people! A vast majority are still just your average, awesome, down-to-earth mountain bikers : )
  • + 1
 What happened in whistler?
  • + 1
 Mostly just a few guys convinced they were god's gift to mountain biking acting as such. One guy in the parking lot making dumb cracks (and being a general dick) about what I can only assume was due to an older bike I was riding at the time. Another few absolutely BLASTING down a blue trail high marking blindly off the sides of jumps yelling "get the F outta the way" as they bombed past people at dangerous speeds (for the record I'm by no means a novice rider).

In general, very similar to the kind of behavior I've seen from cocky, park-rat types that I've met before when skiing. It was the first time I'd seen the same behavior from mountain bikers. Very unimpressive....but thankfully, these "bad apples" were still just a small minority.
  • + 6
 I'm lucky enough to have a dream LBS. You know it's a good one when you break your axle trying to pack your bike for a flight for a 24 hour race in the Yukon, and after emailing them at 10pm at night in a panic they're at the store an hour before opening to give you the part you need on the way to the airport.
  • + 1
 While Fox36 is one of the best if not the best fork out there it cannot outclass even a Suntour fork anymore, it's 2016, all stuff got good. It's not 2003 when you had Marzocchi Z1 and the next closest competitor, far far behind was Rock shox Judy SL.
  • + 13
 I can't believe the Moots Rogue YBB 27.5 wasn't mentioned as a soft tail option....they've only been doing soft tails since 1991ish.......
  • + 1
 It was 1998 Moots came out with the ybb the first rear suspension bike as far as I know, (which aint that far) it was steel back then. In 1991 started using Titanium. has 1 1/8 inch rear softness. Super low maintenance.
Killer bikes... real pricey.
  • - 1
 It's not carbone. It HAS to be carbone. There is no substitute.
  • + 2
 Sorry 1988 was the first YBB. D'oh!
  • + 1
 www.mombat.org/Moots.htm

1991 was apparently the first proto
  • + 2
 "The YBB suspension has been a staple in Moots’ lineup of softtails since 1988, when the company first began prototyping the pivotless system in steel. By 1991, Moots had refined a titanium version, and it has basically been the same since".
Yeah. From Moots.
  • + 2
 It's sarcasme. It HAS to be sarcasme. There is no substitute. When you buy ti you buy for life. Not a disposable plastic bike like carbon.
  • + 0
 $3655.00 for the frame.. yeah life! Wink
  • + 2
 $3655 for 10+ years vs $3000 for a few years of life expectancy. I'll take ti please!
  • + 2
 Not that I can afford either....
  • + 8
 Specialized also makes the Cobl Goblr seatpost that has 18mm of vertical compliance. $200, light weight and no maintenance. has a 27.2 diameter so it will work on many hard tails.
www.specialized.com/us/en/ftb/road-components/seat-posts/cgr-carbon-seatpost
  • - 5
flag ratedgg13 (Feb 23, 2016 at 14:24) (Below Threshold)
 I'd avoid the Specialized Cock Goblin - sorry the name was too good of an opportunity. Plus... Specialized...ewwww. Get the Cane Creek Thudbuster instead: www.canecreek.com/products/seatposts
  • + 2
 hahah taht thing belongs in a museum they brought the thudbuster out in the early 90's stupid cane creek.
  • - 4
flag ratedgg13 (Feb 23, 2016 at 15:07) (Below Threshold)
 Still works though, doesn't it?
  • + 2
 The cane creek website explains how good the seat post is with pictures. Perfect for folding bikes and tandems.
  • + 0
 Elastomer garbage hahaha can't believe they are remotely relevant to someone.
  • + 5
 Lol just put a shit load of air in ur dropper post and tape the lever down
  • - 1
 I use a thud buster on my older HT and it works amazingly well. Cane creek makes decent stuff. What's your issue? Personally I'm confused as to what the point is of 10mm of travel?? 10mm?? Are they serious? All that R&D to engineer in 10-12mm of travel??
  • - 1
 @tratlif1

Im gonna go on a limb here and say that you are a dentist.

Seriously 200 for a seatpost? And even worst a specialised seatpost.
  • + 3
 How much is a reverb?
  • + 0
 That elastomer seat post looks great but only for specific applications. I could see using that on a touring or commuting bike. It would pedal efficiently, is light weight, doesn't get in the way of gear and would nicely take the impact out of seams in pavement while seated.
  • + 8
 Suspension "guru." Sounds more to me like a salesman trying to bleed every dollar from the guy.
  • + 4
 I can't believe people are concerned about all these things... I mean, mixing suspension brands? Hub width? And having rode Treks "Softail", I can firmly say it's almost completely unnoticeable. I used to believe all these things made some sort of difference, but the truth is most of these things are physiological, or maybe they don't even give you peace of mind even if you have them. I've always stuck by the theory it's 90% rider, 10% bike. You adapt eventually to whatever you ride anyway. With all these big brands, it's really hard to get a "bad" bike.
  • + 3
 I run a fox 40 and a rock shock coil RC2, I think it works really well, but then again if somebody got on my bike and was like" this isent balanced" i would say your f*ucking high. but then again i dont know much beyond what feels comfortable
  • + 1
 So true. I hopped on a buddies bike last week, and I swear our suspension set-ups could not possibly be more different. We ride the same trails at the same speeds, but each person has their own idea of what feels "right".
  • + 7
 211 percent give me a break
  • + 16
 I was on the fence with a lot of frames which were 210% more comfortable...........but 211%......SOLD!
  • + 29
 I couldn't decide between the Trek and the Canyon until I read that the Trek has a healthy 11mm of compliance vs the anemic 10.9mm of the Canyon. Now that I'm educated I have thrown eight wheelbarrows of cash at my local Trek dealer and burned down a Canyon warehouse.
  • + 11
 ^^ that's giving it 211%
  • + 2
 i mix frnt and rear brands o suspension with no issues. its all bout dialing in the rig to suit yurself and where you rail. shop techs that will work with you on this are a dying breed had to learn it for myself. no biggy, i'm a gearhead anyway.
  • + 2
 Lot of beg comments here about the thud buster. I ride an aluminum HT as one of my bikes on a regular basis. I don't ride on bike paths. I live in PA and begin my daily commute to work through a 1/4 mile rock garden of a dry creek bed in back of my house. In the winter I put nokian spikes on and ride down ice covered rock stairs in the Wiss. on a 26" aluminum HT. And yeah it has a thud buster on it. Guess what?? It works.
  • + 0
 It's so ugly though :/
  • + 2
 I am riding an Intense Tracer foundation build, and recently switched out the stock xfusion shock with an X2 and man that shock is absolutely fantastic! It has made wonder how amazing a fox 36 would be on my bike, but honestly I totally love the Pike. I did change up the tuning of the Pike once the X2 was on there, but they both were fantastically together.
  • + 3
 I wish somebody made a 430mm chainstay 29er, 120-140mm front fork, with room for 29x2.5 or 27.5x3.25 in soft tail format. Hint Hint Nudge Nudge. Something to take the edge off of bikepacking, but still fun.
  • - 1
 You're kidding right?
  • + 0
 Trek Stache?
  • - 1
 Not soft tail. Actually I've heard that the Stache's aluminum frame combined with the rigid design of the rear triangle makes it maybe overly stiff.
  • + 2
 @PHeller sounds like your solution would be a steel framed bike like the surly Krampus. I just built one up as a play/bike packing rig and love it. Steel has a little more give than an aluminum or carbon frame. Mine is built as a ridgid but it's suspension correctable.
  • + 0
 The Spec Enduro 29" has 430mm stays, the Stumpy FSR 29" has 437mm. (I ride a Transition Patrol so no S brand fanboy). My riding buddy has the Enduro and loves it. He is a full on DH guy, so I was surprised to see he really digs that 29"
  • + 2
 I don't understand this. So you want a softail + bike and you're afraid of stiffness? You don't need bmc's micro travel with big tires, the 15mm are ridiculous
  • + 2
 Maybe you need one of these; I know I do.
moots.com/bike/mountaineer
  • - 1
 @PHeller this is some advanced trolling. I salute you sir.
  • - 1
 There's this brand called Kona that makes the Process 111 which is exactly that..
  • + 2
 Canfield EPO?
Bigger tires, lower pressure.
Its an agressive 29er hardtail.
  • + 1
 Building a new Bronson CC with and X2 on the rear and a DVO Diamond on the front. Ridden a friend's bike with the same set up, perfect as long as you set each up accordingly . That bike shop 'suspension' guy sounds like a d-bag.
  • + 1
 Damn.
Do you think I can move my caliper in 3mm on the center lock rotor side? I unfortunately have a boost frame, with XT center lock wheels. Should I just get a 6-bolt adaptor and regular rotor for the rear? Pain in the arse!
I only have a front brake on my to-be built bike.
  • + 3
 Mtb-News.de has reviewed the Canyon Exceed and called it one of the less comfortable Race Hardtails. Don't believe everything the Companies tell you
  • + 0
 i am about to upgrade my patrol to a 1x11 drivetrain and I would like to know if my stock chainline on my crankset is going to suffice. its a race face crank with a narrow wide on and i don't plan on changing it. only changing the cassette, derailleur, shifter and chain. from what i can tell there is no room for adjustment with this bottom bracket and crank set. don't really want to dish out for a new one. cheers
  • - 2
 Sorry mate you'll have to get a new bike if you want to run 1x11.
  • - 1
 Im not 6, thanks for your useless input you mutt
  • - 1
 Funny that you have nothing better to do than troll pinkbike forums and try to be funny. Get a hobby bro
  • + 3
 Aren't rotor spacers generally a bad idea? Creates a lever arm for braking forces.
  • + 2
 And I don't really see why anyone would feel need to convert a hub to boost standard in the first place. Yes, there might be such a scenario, the guy wouldn't be asking otherwise... but... well, the only one I know who might be tempted is my dentist, who really would like to exchange his 2015 Bronson for the 2016 version with boost, but would probably like to not purchase the complete bike this time around (the missus might object to a new five figures bike every year), therefore he might want to keep the Enve wheels for the time being...

But in any real world scenario, someone willing to spend the money for a new boost frame and fork, and then not using the advantages of boost and saving a little money by keeping his old wheelset... hmmm.
  • + 1
 You can also just put a 142mm spaced hub in a boost frame and tighten er up. It is not ideal an may void a warranty, but at 3mm per side are you really that worried? I have seen it done.
  • + 2
 I bought CK hubs not even a year ago (142) and definitley going to do my best to boostinate them if I get a new frame. Damn things are pricey.
  • + 5
 I'm perfectly happy.
  • + 3
 I really do wish Pinkbike would do more of these articles, once every 3 weeks is ages!
  • + 1
 I just moved my caliper in 3mm since I have icetech lock on rotors and it works fine with non boost wheels. such a pain having wheel spacers though.
  • + 2
 Mtb-News.de tested the Exceed and called it one of the less comfortable race Hardtails!
  • + 1
 What's the problem with mixing suspension brands on their bikes? People have been running Cane Creek shocks for years and they didn't notice that?
  • + 2
 You would have to pry my "unbalanced" CCDB/Pike combo from my cold dead hands before getting me to switch to a matched set.
  • + 0
 Exactly, This "Guru" is an idiot
  • + 3
 15 mm of travel: all any man needs.
  • + 3
 Trek did I so speed for their Domane, not their Madone*
  • + 0
 They're on both of them
  • + 1
 @pm148 technically yes you're correct it is currently on both the Domane and the Madone.

Iso Speed was how ever originally developed for the classics in Europe. It began on Trek endurance road platform the Domane that was released in 2012 if I remember correctly.

Since then it has branched on to Trek Premium Cyclocross platform the Boone and most recently in (June 2015) the Procaliber (Cross Country) and Madone (Aero road race)
  • + 2
 The OCD in me just likes my suspension brands to match, be it fox, rockshox, or whatever.
  • + 1
 211% more comfort ???? come on, at what point marketing will treat me like an idiot?
  • - 2
 Boost makes so little sense. Soo little! We already have a 150mm spacing and the 20x110 front hub standard is not heavier but it is stronger than the 15mm crap. Too much senseless stuff coming out of Sram, which is why I have nothing from them on my bike and will never have. The rest of the stuff I find really cool, as it is new and interesting and is not, I repeat, not forced on any of us. Nice stuff.
  • + 1
 The Manufacturers are making these parts so they don't have to listen to you.
  • - 2
 Who the heck came up with the front boost spacing?!

I do not believe you can tell the difference between 100 and 110mm front axles on 2.8wide low pressure 27,5+ tyres.

You do NOT need wide spacing to get the tyre clearance.

It's all MARKETING BS. Fork makers could have easily made wide clearance 100mm forks and everybody could have been happily using and interchanging their good old wheels with 100mm hubs.

It makes me sick seeing these boost adapters. Like omg, such a hassle for such a bad solution on a "standard" that should have never existed in the first place.
Rear is a bit different story due to chainline and tyre-chain clearance.
  • + 2
 Softail, I guess not everyone like a stiffy.
  • - 3
 Except for the BMC, I've never understood the draw with technologies like Trek's Isospeed. You could just go ahead and spec a Cane Creek Thudbuster (or if you want to go really cheap: www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product_10053_10052_175494_-1___) on your current hardtail and realize the same benefits.
  • + 6
 Yeah, for the miniscule 300g weight penalty on your XC race bike...
  • + 9
 The thudbuster constantly varies your seat height, it is one of the weirdest feelings out there. Not mention its heavy and ugly...Treks isospeed works amazingly well, and has literally zero drawbacks.
  • + 3
 When you do a XC race that has a constant moderately rough trail surface and the seated compliance makes a lot of sense
  • - 1
 @trailbicyclesbc

Right on buddy...no drawbacks except for the $$$ you have to spend to get the frame with that "technology".
  • + 3
 to clarify, I'm talking about the trek frame, the thudbuster is for hybrids on bike paths
  • + 1
 @Toopysteps Santa Cruz Highball all the way.
  • + 1
 Is my Pike / Kashima float truly sacrilege?
  • - 1
 Softails making a comeback then!?
  • + 11
 These bike brands probably found their old stockpile of 1980's elastomers and were like we can build bikes with these and claim fancy technology!

Post a Comment



Copyright © 2000 - 2019. Pinkbike.com. All rights reserved.
dv56 0.066536
Mobile Version of Website