Ask Pinkbike: Sketchy Carbon Bars, New Bike or Upgrade, Sharing the Trail, & Fuel Containers

Jan 26, 2021
by Daniel Sapp  

Here at Pinkbike, we get inundated with all kinds of questions, ranging from the basic "Can I have stickers?" to more in-depth, soul-searching types of queries like if you should pop the question or what to name your first child. Ask Pinkbike is an occasional column where we'll be hand-picking and answering questions that have been keeping readers up at night, although we'll likely steer clear of those last two and keep it more tech-oriented.





Sketchy Carbon Bars...

Question: @Fenwick458 asks in the Road Cycling & Touring forum: I recently discovered my bars are too wide, so I started looking for some 420mm (it's a road bike but this carries over to MTB), and stumbled across a 'Toseek Chinese carbon integrated bar and stem' for only £38 delivered on eBay. I did a few searches and found a few other bits on the web about them, some saying they are terrible and dangerous, and some saying they are fine. I thought, "What do I have to lose?" and bought some to see how good they were.

They arrived cracked, but eventually I received a second set...(long story). I made a jig I could fasten into the vice and test them before fitting. I tested the 1st set to destruction on the cracked side (which was easier than I thought, I was led to believe carbon fiber wouldn't shear off in a clean break, but it did) and tried as hard as I could to break them by pushing down as hard as possible on the unbroken side, and with both hands on the top of the bars, but couldn't break them. A friend also tried and couldn't break them, they seem strong.


bigquotesWhenever I think about what the worst bike part to fail while on a ride is, it's a road bike handlebar or a headtube. Take those bars off your bike right now and throw them out! Seriously. What are you going to do if it breaks mid-descent at high speed? You're going to get really hurt or possibly die.

Carbon parts are expensive for a reason - they're not overly straightforward to make. Now it doesn't matter so much as where they come from (US, China, UK, etc.) as to how they were produced. Anything that arrives in packaging, as you described, has a chance of being damaged in shipping and it could be in a way that you can't see.

Companies have had recalls over seemingly insignificant issues with carbon because when it's not made correctly, it can fail. And those failures can be catastrophic, as you described. The testing and engineering that goes into any reputable carbon product is extensive. Companies invest lots of money into ensuring that their products are safe and reliable. If shipping a product somehow caused its failure, I don't think I'd trust the jig and test you made (although it's cool) in any way, especially once you consider all of the impacts, vibrations, temperature variables, and more that your handlebars will encounter even just over the course of one ride. Check out this article from a couple of years back when I visited Zipp's facility in Indianapolis for an idea of what their testing and manufacturing look like for carbon wheels and other parts. 

Zipp test their carbon at every step throughout the process to ensure things are done precisely. Any other reputable carbon manufacturer is going to do the same because of how critical proper construction is. This machine measures tolerances of the rims down to microscopic levels.





Gas Container for Trail Building?

Question: @mattfisher22 asks in the Trail Building: For maintenance and building new trail, sometimes I need to pack in a chainsaw. Has anyone had a good experience with the aluminum MSR bottles? They get mixed reviews on Amazon. I'd love to hear how you carry gas/bar oil for a chainsaw in your pack.

bigquotesI've been using the same MSR bottle for 14 years now and it's still going strong. Yes, the seals do break down over time, but otherwise, it's good to go. Depending on how often I'm out on the trail, I'll change what mix I have in the can. Typically, I'll make my own mix, but if it's a little more sporadic, I like to use the way more expensive but far more stable, Stihl Motomix (or similar) pre-mix. Some of the Lowe's or Home Depot stores even have cans of the pre-mix that fit in the side of your pack just like a MSR bottle. Of course, the MSR bottle is still good for bar & chain oil as well, just make sure you don't mix your stove fuel with your saw fuel...probably a fast way to ruin both.

One other thing that came to mind that's worth noting is that it's a good idea to carry a spare bar and chain with you if you're only taking in one saw. That way, if you get the bar pinned way back in the middle of nowhere and can't wedge it out, you can usually pop the motor off, add on the other bar, and fix your mistake.

Alas, if it's in your budget, I'd highly recommend some of the new electric setups. Long runtime, high torque, and really awesome. Plus, you just have to carry a spare battery and bar oil.






Who Gets the Right of Way?

Question: @speed10 asks: Oooold question. It used to be that uphill got the right of way because losing momentum on the climb sucks, and restarting can sometimes be tricky. Obviously restarting on the down is as easy as letting off the brakes.

Now I hear people saying “enjoy the down” and yielding to the downhill traffic so they can stay in the flow. Seems less people value the challenge of cleaning the climb without putting a foot down. More people wanna bomb the hill and I’m cool with both. I just wish it was consistent.

What is the consensus? Who gets the right of way, uphill or downhill riders?


bigquotesTo me this is very straightforward, yet it's met with a lot of debate. Uphill riders get the right of way. Hikers and horses? They get the right of way everywhere. If you're on multi-use trails, bikes are at the bottom of the food chain. This does change when you're on bike-specific trails or directional trails, however, the bottom line is that you should be nice and say "Hi" when you encounter other trail users. Everyone is just out in the woods trying to have fun. Nothing gets to me quite like someone rude on a descent with what I call 'Strava face' - you know, the totally gripped rider, on the edge of control, going for a PR while others are just out trying to enjoy their day. C'mon. Get a life, dude. Grow up. Unless you're on a closed race course or someone's life is in danger, there's no reason not to chill out and be friendly. If you can't do your workout that's so important without being a jerk, you should probably go somewhere else or re-evaluate why you even ride.

Now, if you're in the middle of a fast descent on a multi-use trail and you can't safely stop, you're probably going too fast, but I always do try to get out of the way of a descending rider and let them keep going, if it makes sense, even though good etiquette says I should have the right of way. I feel that even though it could add to the confusion of who should yield, I'd rather add to being nice and saying hello.

Photo Dyaln VanWeelden
Just be nice. Horses can be annoying and there are bad apples in every bunch but the horseback riders around where I live do a large part in keeping some backcountry trails open.





New Bike or Upgrade?

Question: @dazzer20 asks in the 29'ers Forum: I'm looking for advice on what is best to do - upgrade or buy a new bike? I have a Felt Nine 60, 2014 29er MTB. The frame is still in relatively good condition minus a few marks and dings, I did recently upgrade the drivetrain to NX Egale 12, but now my front suspension has gone. I could get an upgraded fork but I would need to buy a new front wheel for the dropouts to fit...Something to also consider is I am in the UK and I am not hopeful to be able to get a new bike at this time because of covid as there seems to be a shortage from the shops online and I would need an XL or XXL frame size. I would probably spend up to £1000 for just the front suspension if I were to purchase that.

bigquotesIt's a hard time to be in the predicament that you're in. Bikes and parts can be challenging to come by right now worldwide and your location certainly isn't helping you. If I were in your shoes, I'd see if you could get your fork rebuilt and sit tight with what you have. New seals and even bushings could make it feel a lot better. If it's beyond repair, I'd try to find a used fork and wheel to tide you over until later in the year. If you can get what you have running long enough to give you some time and you keep your eyes open, I'm betting you can find a new or used bike, in good shape, that'll be a little more up to speed. Especially since you just put a new drivetrain on.

While there's nothing wrong with your 2014 model bike (that I know of, other than the fork), a newer bike is going to give you more longevity, better compatibility with modern parts, and probably a little more fun on the trails in years to come. It'll be easier to maintain and you won't have to worry about it working on a day-to-day basis if you keep it in good shape. Good luck in your search!

Tech Tuesday
Sometimes, fresh seals and grease will keep that old fork going for miles and miles.






222 Comments

  • 166 15
 I can't look at people shaking hands in close proximity anymore without thinking about distancing rules... weird times.
  • 14 2
 I agree. We'll get back to normality eventually, but it will take time! Just got to be friendly from a distance Smile
  • 46 0
 at least one of them wears a hand mask
  • 70 268
flag conoat (Jan 26, 2021 at 2:33) (Below Threshold)
 the brainwashing is nearly complete!
  • 82 26
 @conoat: Only yours pal. I know a number of people who've lost friends and family to COVID.
  • 34 232
flag conoat (Jan 26, 2021 at 4:30) (Below Threshold)
 @energetik: I know a guy in canada that said his buddie's friend down the street saw a sasquatch raping a chupacabra!
  • 83 9
 @conoat: sounds like your brain needs washing... rest of us are content to wash our hands...
  • 96 8
 @conoat: Jesus man, could you be any more of a shithead if you tried?
  • 18 63
flag mm732 (Jan 26, 2021 at 5:39) (Below Threshold)
 @energetik: stay inside or you're a murderer :\
  • 7 3
 @Chuckolicious: embarrassed he's british ????
  • 22 2
 @Chuckolicious: was meant to be a depressed emoji not a question mark. Frustratingly people blame the government for how bad covid has got when you have idiots like @ conoat claiming it's all bollocks. Truly depressing
  • 38 118
flag conoat (Jan 26, 2021 at 6:01) (Below Threshold)
 @foespower: math is hard, I know. Covid kills .001% of healthy people under 65 that actually get it. But hey, you keep cheerleading for the decimation of your personal freedoms. I didn't say Covid is bollocks(although I do blame governments for the outlandishily terrible handling, making a mockery of civil liberties and being overtly authoritarian). I made a sarcastic comment about not taking someone's word for it on the internet, when they say they know some people that knew some people that died.
  • 11 90
flag conoat (Jan 26, 2021 at 6:02) (Below Threshold)
 @foespower: I am not, thankfully. I just happen to live here.
  • 15 95
flag conoat (Jan 26, 2021 at 6:02) (Below Threshold)
 @Chuckolicious: likely. I am multitalented. ask yer mum.
  • 22 5
 @conoat: Decimation of personal freedoms works best when they are freely given away vs. taken.
  • 4 0
 Weirdo
  • 2 0
 Lol this is normal now...
  • 11 29
flag haji1974 (Jan 26, 2021 at 6:52) (Below Threshold)
 @SlodownU: So the freedom to spread SARS cov2 is up to there with the right to bear high-capacity magazines?
Trump lost !!!!!!!
  • 3 11
flag Bighill2015 (Jan 26, 2021 at 6:55) (Below Threshold)
 @haji1974: lol take it your a Trump supporter mmmm
  • 39 21
 @haji1974: What does Trump have to do with this? Its that reaction, and your inability to look at anything objectively, that's a sign of your immaturity. No one is saying that COVID isn't serious, but its also a testament to how far science and medicine has come that this is the most pressing issue we face today. The numbers don't lie though, in a world of almost 8B people, this is a blip. To put it in perspective, the 2nd bubonic plaque killed close to 200M people, half the worlds population at the time. And that .001 figure that @conoat cited furthers this. Its also a fact that in todays world, the governments reaction to every crisis we face is to either pass local ordinances or a law restricting something, and next finding a way to take more of your money. Please, show me and example (including your magazine ban) where this hasn't been the case in recent times.
  • 14 19
flag Bighill2015 (Jan 26, 2021 at 7:25) (Below Threshold)
 @SlodownU: people die everyday of lots of different viruses this one is no difference..humans are the virus to this earth so I’m thinking it’s nature doing it’s thing..
If you believe everything you see or hear on the news good luck lol
  • 17 6
 @Bighill2015: Every population is checked when it gets large enough, humans are subject to this the same as every other organism on this planet.
  • 11 3
 @SlodownU: nailed it.
  • 8 2
 @SlodownU: spot on bud
  • 20 17
 @SlodownU: it's not even that people are giving them away with smile....it's that they are also champing at the bit for the government to take everyone's freedoms away. scary times.
  • 19 0
 Remember the time when we had a cake and then one person blew all over it, and then we all ate it. Crazy times.
  • 2 0
 @Bighill2015:

Is that you, Agent Smith?!
  • 1 1
 @conoat: he speaking the language of the gods
  • 1 0
 @SlodownU:
Ok so no masks please they infringe in my constitutional rights
  • 4 1
 @haji1974: Wearing a mask is not a political statement, it's an IQ test. :-D
  • 3 0
 @Chuckolicious: yeah the whole “I don’t believe in science” thing is an IQ test
  • 3 1
 @haji1974: Its got nothing to do with wearing a mask. Where are these trillions of dollars in "relief" going to come from? If you can't see that, it really has gone over your head.
  • 1 1
 @haji1974: And were are those trillions going to go?
  • 104 0
 35 is too damn old to be gambling your life on £38 carbon bars from ebay.
  • 20 1
 Strange, I literally just stumbled on these today while trolling around for the Syncros Hixon, and immediately wondered who in their right mind would go for that. My question has been answered soooo much faster than I thought it would be.
  • 32 0
 I'll happily use some cheap carbon parts. Headset spacer, waterbottle cage. Anything else isn't for me
  • 14 6
 Also: 35 is too damn old to think bars can be too wide.
  • 53 2
 50% of humanity has below average intelligence.
  • 15 7
 I bought a "generic" carbon handlebar on Amazon for maybe $35...they look exactly like the Race Face Next bars on one of my bikes. I did a home test of the bar resting on chairs...one on each side and I sat on them.(I weigh 220). I sat again...bounced up then sat down harder. I felt pretty ok with my test, put them on another bike and had zero issues, and I like to drop off things, jump...I wear out parts and frames pretty quick.
A lot of companies have their parts made in the same factory, so the only difference is the fancy name/sticker applied and quadruple the retail value.
I've been trying a bunch of "knock off" components and so far I have nothing to complain about as far as catastrophic breakage. And, lots of "high end" parts will break. I was going through Race Face BB's every month! I recently had a pedal shear out of a Race Face Next crank. So.....no matter what it's a risk
  • 7 0
 My carbon road bike frame is in the shop right now waiting on warranty on cracks. And it's a decent brand. No way I'll be buying any cheap carbon that has the potential to leave me with a severe case of dead...
  • 19 2
 @mnorris122: Confusing average with median doesn't look good considering the context Wink
  • 14 0
 @GlassGuy: You will have exactly one complaint if handlebar fails. I have a feeling it will outweight all "no-complaints" so far..... Big Grin
  • 9 0
 @madcow-krakow: “average” simply refers to any measure of central tendency, not just mean.
  • 4 0
 @GlassGuy: Well at least the fact that you bounced on them indicates you understand how much higher dynamic forces can be than static forces. The person above merely pushed on their generic bars. Force increases by the square of velocity, people!
  • 1 1
 @onyxss: Yep, but fact is any bar from any brand can fail. I do a fair amount of stress testing before I go full out on trails or anywhere else on the bike
  • 1 3
 @jmd07aa: Trust me when I say I was nervous and had hesitations about putting the bars on my bike, so when I say I "bounced", I was letting all my weight with force fall into the middle of the bar while the very ends were supported. Then on the bike I slowly worked up from curbs to 4' drop offs.
  • 7 3
 I've been riding a chinese carbon road bike with chinese carbon combo bars and chinese carbon wheels since 2012. Still in one piece (the bike and me). Some people clearly fear what they don't know and are not ready to take the risk of learning more about it in case they find out they were wrong all this time.
  • 2 0
 @GlassGuy: agreed, any brand can fail. With known brand in average probability of fail is lower because QC is better. Most users don't like to gamble with catastrophic failure parts. Some do - good luck with knock-off in future too Smile

P.S.: on DH bike already 4th season on Spank Spike ALU bar. Survived quite some crashes, not even a dent so far. Price 80$. Not a gambler Big Grin
  • 2 0
 @lRaphl: Correction - people fear NOT they were wrong - they fear they are right with chinese knock-offs and catastrophic failure will confirm they're right Big Grin . And don't compare road bike riding with MTB, forces are way different, especially when you start adding jumps etc. in the mix.
  • 6 5
 Everyone need to stop talking shit on unbranded chinese carbon parts - at least for road bikes. Clearly, trusting your life to a fake carbon bar on an MTB is stupid. But on a road bike? It's not dangerous unless you're an idiot. I've been on chinese carbon road frame/fork and bars for well over 5,000 miles, some of them open road, some of them gravel path, many of them on potholed city streets and sidewalks, taking some pretty big knocks. The frame was $275 and bars $30. Why would you not?
  • 2 0
 @hubertje-ryu: You can never be too old to be concerned about proper bike fit. He's talking about bars on a road bike, where you sit in a generally static position for long periods. That can really exacerbate seemingly small cockpit fit issues.
  • 1 0
 @GlassGuy: same goes for carbon rims... made in same factory as some reputable / known rim makers.. only you can get them at 1/4 the price without the fancy name stamped on them.. I am running some yinshin carbon and they have exceeded my expectations by far..
  • 3 3
 @madcow-krakow: Not knowing mean, median and mode are all 'averages' really doesn't look good considering the context... We're getting really pedantic here and the colloquial use of 'average' in English probably doesn't translate well so no worries. I'm just happy to see other people recognize multiple measures of centrality.
  • 1 1
 @madcow-krakow: Not knowing mean, median and mode are all 'averages' really doesn't look good considering the context... We're getting really pedantic here and the colloquial use of 'average' in English probably doesn't translate well so no worries. I'm just happy to see other people that recognize multiple measures of centrality.
  • 1 2
 @CDT77: yep! I've bought frames in the past(usually aluminum), and one I swear was a Giant frame but without the stickers..and for $50...brand new from the factory!!! Welds looked solid. I used it to practice my painting skills and sold it to a friend...never heard of it breaking.
  • 3 0
 I rode the Toseek carbon fork on my gravel/commuter/rigid MTB that I got used for a few months. Didn't break it, fortunately, but had a crazy amount of fore/aft flex under braking. Switched it out for a steel fork and all is well.

My ski coach in college had the stem on his road bike fail when he hit a pothole on a long descent. He has a good amount of metal in his spine and/or several fused vertebrae. 0/10 would not recommend increasing your chances of catastrophic component failure on a road bike.
  • 5 0
 I made the mistake of the generic carbon bars from ebay, lasted about 3 rides and failed while pumping a berm. Never again
  • 1 2
 @toddball: Carbon like titanium can be designed to have more or less flex, and maybe why your fork was flexy. Any component from any manufacturer has the possibility of breaking under high stress...like high speed into a pothole
  • 2 0
 @madcow-krakow: Human intelligence is thought to be normally distributed, in which case the mean and median are equal. While that means you're both technically right, statisticians usually refer to the mean with normal distributions and referring to the median in the context of "above or below" makes you sound like a lunatic.
  • 2 0
 @humanpowered: You can say that again.
  • 2 1
 @mnorris122:

below median intelligence?
  • 1 0
 @lRaphl:

Curious what you're on. As I see it there's 'name brand' chinese d2c carbon, which is generally high end and reliable, and then there's sketchy sh#t. I trust Tandell, Nextie, and Light Bicycle based first on reviews, then experience of mine and others.

If it's too cheap, then it's probably too cheap. A friend who should know better bought a $30 carbon bar, which promptly snapped on the trail and ended his ride far from his vehicle and luckily didn't put him in the hospital. Shit people, there are lots of affordable aluminum parts that won't break, please don't gamble with your life.
  • 2 0
 @WasatchEnduro: My road bike is a Dengfu FM-098. Ordered it with fork, seatpost and integrated bar/stem. Wheels are from Farsports.

My first try with chinese carbon was with Ligh Bicycle rims on my mountain bike one year prior getting my road bike. At that time I wasn't that confident about their durability but these rims are still in perfect condition on my old bike after all this time.

The road bike gave me enough confidence to try a FS mountain bike frame. So from 2016 up to last summer I was on a IPlay IP-036 frame with carbon rims coming from Carbon Bicycle. I tried really hard to break this frame but I only was able to snap a shock bolt. I also destroyed the rear wheel at the end of the first year when a branch jumped into it and snapped 2 spokes on top of a nipple that went through the rim.

By the end of last summer I went back to an aluminium frame not because I don't trust carbon but because I prefer how it feels on the trail. I also wanted a bit more travel and the RSD Wildcat v2 frame was ticking all the boxes for me.
  • 1 0
 @jmd07aa: You're confusing force with kinetic energy.
If you approximate a bar as a perfect spring (it's not), the peak force will be the same regardless of the velocity of impact, just the amount of deflection will change.
If you approximate the bar as a rigid body, the peak force of a dynamic impact will also be the same regardless of the mass or velocity - infinite.
Reality will be somewhere between the two, but much closer to a linear than exponential increase with velocity - particularly once you also include the suspension (fork and tire compression).
  • 2 0
 @GlassGuy: being made in the same factory does not equal the parts being the same thing without the name branding. People say this about all types of products but it’s just not true. These Chinese factories simply produce what they are contested to produce. They make the parts to the specs of the brand who is purchasing them. So if you buy a race face bar you know it’s made to race face’s specs, quality control, etc. You buy some unbranded part made in the same factory you could be buying anything. You have no idea what you are getting. Could it be ok? Sure. But you can’t just assume that because the same factory may also produce high end parts.
  • 1 0
 The Felt carbon bars that came with a bike I had broke in a not very hard crash. Pretty much stick to aluminum since then.
  • 1 0
 @GlassGuy: ‘exactly the same factory, so the only difference is quality control’

There, I fixed it for you
  • 2 1
 @dsut4392: OK..have you had anything break with a "brand name" on it? I definitely have. I'm not saying it's guaranteed...but, it's worth a look. critical thinking is at play here.
Another, off topic example....I wear sunglasses...a lot. My most recent pair of expensive shades(Ray Bans) fell off my pack were run over by a car. They were probably $200. I bought a pair of sunglasses on Amazon...glass lenses, polarized(Ray Bans were not polarized), spring arms...they have a lifetime warranty if anything happens. Truly, they are WAY better than the Ray Bans....they were $18!!! I've fooled friends that thought they were $100 sunglasses. I figure they were made in the same factory as the brand names. Yes...not bike parts...but you get the idea
  • 1 1
 @sino428: again...critical thinking. Test it. Find out. But...I've had every piece of bike part fail...sometimes within a month of use. No guarantees no matter what you buy! But...you may be surprised what you can get get without a fancy sticker on it. I bought a stem that looks a lot like a Hope stem...all kinds of machined aluminum...$18. China name...it's been solid as I've tested on a bike
  • 1 1
 @CustardCountry: what's your argument? You've never had anything with a name break?
  • 2 0
 @GlassGuy: Man, the last thing you want to f*ck around with is cheap sunglasses. If they dilate your pupils and don't actually shield you from UV and whatnot then you've put yourself on a fast track to severe eye damage. You clearly play fast and loose with your own safety and that's all fine and dandy but don't try to take everyone down with you - under the guise of "critical thinking" no less!
  • 1 0
 @lRaphl: Have you got pictures of the frame?
  • 1 0
 @T4THH: Yes, here is my post on Chinertown about it.

chinertown.com/index.php/topic,2947.msg21864.html#msg21864
  • 3 3
 @fullfacemike: you ever wonder why a pair of shitty, plastic Oakley sunglasses cost $200? They come with a "booklet" which includes pages of trademark words, like...nosunification, headwearability, mercurypolarness..and many others(made up but you get the point). The consumer is paying for their nonsense. So I guess you believe a name brand means the product is always top notch then...kind of like an "organic" banana. Organic is another major marketing term that triples the retail value
  • 2 0
 @GlassGuy:
A) Designer sunglasses are expensive for exclusivity reasons. No one is pretending they are actually that expensive to manufacture. $400 Gregory Pecks obviously don’t actually cost $400 to make. This is not the economics or marketing of bike parts, at all. Terrible comparison.
B) You’re $18 glasses with lifetime warranty were not made in Italy by Luxottica. You can keep telling yourself (and apparently your friends) that, though.
  • 1 0
 @GlassGuy:

Good point, GG, even though I disagree slightly. IME Oakleys optics are second to none, as is the high end 'feel'. They're obviously built to very high tolerances and standards. I see the appeal but the value proposition isn't there for me (and many) as I tend to be hard on sunglasses. They're a functional sports item and I'd be super pissed scratching those ....adium whatever lenses which happen regularly from biking and other outdoor activities. Nice yes. Overpriced yes. I stick to the Tifosi-ish price range for shades. Not to mention I'm wearing goggles on most rides. Ryders anti-fog clear in the darker months, Smith Squads in the sun.
  • 1 0
 @mnorris122: funny quote, although not necessarily correct (depending on intelligence distribution).
  • 2 0
 @GlassGuy: "I bought [whatever] on Amazon...[with] a lifetime warranty if anything happens."

A lifetime warranty for something bought from a no-name seller on Amazon is worth the paper it's written on, whether it breaks from a user error or manufacturing fault.

I used to work for a manufacturer of outdoor gear around the time in the early 2000s that they started moving most production from their own factory in Brisbane Australia to wherever [rumours had it] the production manager got the most drunk with the best adult industry service providers. I can tell you from being in charge of warranty at the company's largest retailer at the time, you only get the QC you pay for and enforce.
  • 2 0
 @dsut4392: hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed I will....
  • 1 0
 @sino428: If it's faulty I'll want a refund!
  • 72 0
 Am I the only one who slows down and gives way either way? Sure, we don't have anywhere near as many mountain bikers or mtb specific trails here as the PNW does, but if I see hikers or anything moving ahead of me, I slow down to make sure no one gets injured (or even upset) in the encounter, especially if I'm riding downhill. The regulatory atmosphere here is shakily unstable and is leaning against bikers, and I imagine that's the case in most places at this point, so a good run is simply not worth the risk of having ourselves banned from the trails, and especially not worth the risk of injury to either parties.
  • 22 0
 I do the same. I'm in no hurry. If it is a particularly hard uphill, I am not going to stop though. I expect the courtesy. Otherwise, I just like to hear a thanks. Especially because I almost always say hello and have a nice day.
  • 6 0
 Completely agree. I do the same but unfortunately it is met with the speed demons not making any sort of eye contact and blowing right by.
  • 3 0
 Same here. Narrow single track and our trails have always been pretty popular with the less hard-core, you can't ever trust another rider to yield or move out of the way, especially with the covid riders.
  • 1 4
 If I'm going downhill fast and there's someone coming I take a side route around them if possible
  • 2 0
 I'm the same here in Philly, I think its more who has space gives way. If someone is having a good time down I clear the way and give a thumbs up. Trails can be very busy within the city and we have tons of unleashed dogs but everyone seems friendly (even the dogs). My only problem is joggers with headphones.
  • 3 1
 Riding alone, I’ll yield every time, unless I’m in the middle of a technical climb. Leading a group uphill? Yeah I’ll make downhill traffic yield. Kids? Yield every time. Wish more people had common sense, but more and more of them want to clip my bars as they try not to stop.
  • 62 0
 I usually yield to downhill coming riders because I’m winded anyways!
  • 40 1
 And as I will be climbing more slowly I find it's easier to hear someone coming down than it is someone climbing up. And much easier to quickly jump aside at a slower speed.
  • 16 0
 Yep, I'm never in such a hurry that it's important. I'm always happy to get out of the way and let them enjoy that hard earned descent. It's pretty annoying when you don't get any acknowledgement though.
  • 2 0
 Agreed, it's a great excuse for me to take a break haha
  • 41 0
 Whoa! Hold your horses! Are you telling me that there are places in existence where horsey riders actually WORK on trails instead of annihilating them? Holy horse crap-all-over-the-trail!! I would love to see that
  • 32 0
 Horse ownership in the UK is 0.3%

The trail damage they create is massively disproportionate to the enjoyment of this tiny minority. They should make efforts to find their own trails. And to be specific, i am not talking about bridleways, but hidden trails and off grid stuff. They seem a selfish, entitled bunch

FYI - i respect the horse and pass safely without grumbling.
  • 8 0
 Yes, I was talking to a local equestrian the other day. Our trail managers just had a meeting on trail usage (it is way over normal) and directional trails, alternative days, etc. all came up (which are things that MTBers have been asking for). Anyways, the equestrians were complaining that they are not equally represented in the discussions. I mean, I get that, but they are also like 1/400 users on the trail system, so "equal" representation isn't going to happen. The stuff they wanted was like larger parking lots in the mountains for their horse trailers, which sounds fine, but I guarantee the additional room will be taken by more hikers/mtbers. Kind of hard to save a semi-truck sized space for the occasional horse that comes.
  • 28 1
 Not saying don't bring them but...why the f does every single person with a dog automatically think its a trail dog. Sometimes your spazzy dog will chase people, or it will get into a fight with the hikers that now bring their dog to hike on mtb trails. Not everyone wants to ride with your dog. I have a dog and have the common courtesy to leave it at home when I go ride. Rant over.
  • 13 1
 It might be the unpopular opinion here, but I agree 100%. The number of times I’ve almost wrecked because of a random “trail dog” suddenly darting in front of me out of nowhere is a little concerning. I don’t want to crash, and I also don’t want to hurt someone’s dog that is just having fun because I accidentally smash into it at full speed.
  • 1 0
 @TimRidesBikes we appreciate this.
  • 1 0
 I completely agree with this. And I love dogs as much as anyone. I just don't want them on bike trails, for my and just as importantly the dogs safety. As much as people want to think their dog is the best and smartest dog, its still a dog and is relatively stupid in terms of knowing how to act on a trail. The dog is just there having a good time with its owner, but has no awareness of the potential dangers of other riders on a trail.
  • 3 0
 @sino428: "its still a dog and is relatively stupid in terms of knowing how to act on a trail"

To be fair, dogs don't have a monopoly on acting stupid on trails...
  • 24 0
 another option for new bike guy is to trawl the classifieds instead of work... used incremental upgrades are a fun and cheap way to get a better, safer, more fun bike. plus, it forces you to learn more about how things work because inevitably you have to botch stuff and do things yourself to make them do what you need.
  • 1 0
 Username checks out!
  • 3 0
 Just a cheap fork to tide over until decent stuff is available again (2023?), surely?
  • 4 0
 You can also buy adapters to fit your non boost wheel in a boost fork off ebay/amazon for less than $20. Thats what I have right now waiting until I buy a new wheel this year.
  • 21 2
 Regardless of what direction and who ends up yielding to who, I wish more people used good trail etiquette. No head phones, no side-by-side taking up the entire trail, quit talking so loud and for F-sakes, PAY ATTENTION. Everyone has a responsibility. Far too often the biker is on the hook for every type of trail bad habit.
  • 13 0
 Common sense and courtesy is unfortunately way too much to ask of most people these days.
  • 12 0
 Hikers that plug up both ears have lost all survival instinct. We soft
  • 8 0
 @mm732: I once tried to pass someone who had noise cancelling earbuds in. I had to eventually yell to ask them to move.
  • 5 0
 My father-in law scared the hell out of a trail runner that was blasting headphones. We were calling out for probably 30 seconds before we decided to just pass. The guy must have jump four feet to the side when my FIL blasted by him.
  • 5 0
 ...and children laughing, STFU for F-sakes!
  • 8 0
 @RonanM825: Just once? I probably come across at least three such people a week. I don't understand it... why can't people just enjoy the great outdoors for what they are? But as bad as headphones are at times, I'm equally baffled by people playing music out loud over speakers. 1. What makes people think we want to hear their crappy music? 2. Try being considerate of people trying to enjoy the peace of nature.
  • 1 1
 @MisterChow: I really hope that's sarcasm.
  • 1 0
 @TheR: You mean you don't love some guy blasting EDM on the trail? This same thing happens on the ski slopes and it is annoying AF.
  • 3 0
 @TheR: I try and stay away from where people walk. I am fairly big into hiking and camping aswell as being young. It hurts to see people who cant get off their phone while in the outdoors. I have to sit infront of a screen for 8-10 hours a day when im outdoors its just me and the squirrels. he speaker can be be kind of funny for all about 10 seconds before it gets obnoxious
  • 17 0
 How come horse owners aren't responsible for their animals massive pile directly on the trail yet if my dog poops 5 meters from the side of a trail people will try to run me out of the city?
  • 7 1
 Good question. Although horse dookie is a fertilizer while dog dookie is not, I do not appreciate riding through dookie.
  • 12 0
 @HB208: I prefer my trails fertilizer free thanks.

Not saying they have to bag it and take it home, but getting it off the trail into the brush would be nice.
  • 8 0
 Horse shit introduces invasive seeds to the area. It most definitely should be cleaned up. As a form of protest, I keep wanting to coil one up on top of the horse shit, but the timing seems to never work out when needed.
  • 5 0
 @sriracha: This is an excellent point I had not considered. My parents once used horse manure in their garden and fought weed issues for years after that they never had prior.
  • 18 2
 I’m often polite and yield to horses but they are the worst trail users. That 2000 lbs mindless shit sack is dangerous, leaves heaps of dung on the trail and leaves pot holes everywhere they trot. Equestrians suck.
  • 7 0
 I definitely don't disagree with you. They definitely leave the most damage. Some equestrians decided to go on some muddy trails on my system and left huge pot holes all over the place.
  • 6 3
 Because it needs to be said again “ I’m often polite and yield to horses but they are the worst trail users. That 2000 lbs mindless shit sack is dangerous, leaves heaps of dung on the trail and leaves pot holes everywhere they trot. Equestrians suck”
  • 13 0
 Right of way between two riders also needs to consider directionality of the trail. Where I ride, the majority of trails are primarily up or down. If a person wants to climb up a blue or black trail that the vast majority descend, they need to be ready to get TF out of the way....especially if they are using an electrical assist to aid their headlong foray into downhill traffic. It is entirely unreasonable to place the onus on the downhill rider, and grant special protection to a small minority that choose to thumb their nose at the normal flow of traffic, or use technological aids to pervert that flow to their personal gratification.
  • 13 1
 That doesn't look like seal specific grease...tell me I'm wrong.
  • 3 0
 I'm curious also. Looks like white lithium grease in the pic. Def not the sram dynamic seal grease.
  • 2 0
 Its butter- for that buttery smooth feel!
  • 8 0
 I came into horses on trail last week and the first thing you want to do (after stopping) is TALK! The horses benefit from hearing the human voice on this strange contraption that could be seen as threatening to them. Ask the riders what they want you to do and make a friendly conversation out of it. They asked me to stay on the trail and they walked around. They also asked me to share this with friends and other mountain bikers.

Stop, talk, ask them what would work best, and keep the positive vibe going to keep their horses calm.
  • 7 0
 Not sure if they are just available in NZ but back in my Park Ranger/forestry days we used a can called a Toucan. It's an aluminium can with two compartments, one for fuel mix and one for bar oil. Also have a belt loop on them.
Always found them real handy for heading into the bush with a chainsaw.
  • 1 0
 www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmEsCzi9PUo

Seems like its not available for general order, would love to be wrong. Love the concept!
  • 5 0
 As someone who used to work at MSR, MSR bottles are tested against all potential fuels that you would store in them. The only thing you don't want to put in there is alcohol as it will react with the aluminum and compromise the bottle. Change those seals as Daniel Sapp said, they will dry up and no longer provide a seal over time. Seal kits are cheap and the customer service department will mail them out (at least when I worked there) if you can't find them locally. Also worth noting that as with anything on Amazon, there are counterfeits, not sure what bad experiences people are having with MSR bottles that cause bad reviews, but they are by far (or at least were) the strongest fuel bottle on the market, basically a mini fire extinguisher. I'd recommend going to a dealer where you know what you're getting is authentic especially for equipment that has safety concerns.

Also, I currently live in an area where equestrians, hikers, and mountain bikers all work together to build, maintain, and lobby for trails. We still have a few conflicts here and there, but mostly live harmoniously on the same trails. I do feel like we have a lot of new riders to the trails during the pandemic and I do wonder sometimes if they just don't understand how right or way works on trails. If going by what they see, they would think that downhill riders generally get the right of way, because so many people move aside when they see them. I don't have a solution to the issue of riders bombing down multi-use trails expecting everyone to make way, but it seems to be a growing problem in the last year (at least on my local trails).
  • 5 0
 MSR bottles are bombproof. They are designed for high altitude mountaineering expeditions. Beware cheap imitations that arent as strong. Seals do perish but are replaceable. Solid bit of kit!
  • 5 1
 I've always been too scared to run carbon bars since seeing a brand new pair fail. Worked at a shop at the time, mech on the bench across from me builds up a brand new Niner with a couple custom parts for a customer. This included a brand new bar from a mid level but reputable carbon company that most folks here would know. After building, he did the classic, attempt to bottom fork by standing over the bike jumping and putting your weight through your arms. The bar sheared clean, right at the start of the taper. Hard to feel safe with any carbon bar after seeing that.
  • 5 2
 I have no idea what’s being done to that poor rock shox fork with pre-2013 dust wipers, but it isn’t compatible with its bath oil at all. Sram’s own grease wasn’t really compatible with oil until fairly recently when they started using slickoleum.

This is just a marketing internet page catering to all the covid tourists relishing in the income inequality allowing them to trust fund about during a pandemic. I’d recommend videos on vorsprungs page if you want something legitimate.
  • 4 0
 Rock Shox forks need to be opened every 50 hours of use:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNI-sMA1q90

Who is doing that here?
  • 14 0
 Maybe after 250hrs.
  • 9 0
 @Jvisscher: just gave my x2 a service after 4 years
  • 1 0
 @send-it-bro: Did it still have any oil in it?
  • 3 0
 I try to do mine a couple times a year. I've heard of Fox forks rubbing the coating off the stanchions if they run dry for too long. If things aren't well lubricated in there it's going to lead to premature bushing wear among other things.
  • 2 0
 @c-radicallis: Actually, it was almost empty. That's why I serviced it, it started making noises and wasn't very smooth.
  • 3 1
 @send-it-bro: To be honest. That could still be 50hr of riding ;-).
  • 1 0
 That feels really excessive. I'd be doing a fork service like 7 times a year if I did it every 50 hours.
  • 1 0
 I do, all my riding buddies do... not sure I get what you're saying... did you really not know this? And/or why wouldn't you?
  • 1 0
 @islandforlife: You are servicing your fork every month?
  • 1 0
 @HB208: It doesn't take that much time to do a lower leg service on a fork so if you ride a lot you may do it that often. I usually discount a fair bit of my riding time since riding uphill especially on logging roads the fork is not getting cycled as heavily as on downhills, so I figure less than half the ride the fork is getting significant enough use to add up to the service hours. I'm not sure that's a legit assumption but my oil doesn't usually look to bad when I get to it so I think I'm doing ok.
  • 1 0
 @shami: I've been lazy TBH. But I am buying all of the stuff I need to do my own mech work, so I'll start doing it more often.
  • 1 0
 @HB208: Don't ride that much anymore... but I did at one point. I do it every 40 to 60 hours... makes a huge difference. Only riding once a week right now... spring/summer/fall it's more like twice a week... and rides are typically 2 to 3 hours. Except when enduro race season kicks in, I ride a bit more (pre-rides) and longer because the pre-rides and races are usually 4 to 5 hours. But ya.. the more I ride, the more I service my fork, shock, brakes, drivetrain etc. And that's with a 50 to 60 hours work week, two ten years olds and a wife that I spend a lot of time with... works out well that most of that time spent is also riding :-). Then I sell my super mint exceptionally well maintained bike for top dollar at the end of the year.
  • 1 0
 @shami: pretty sure they account for slow climbing in that 50 hours. That's why it's 50 hours... if they didn't it would be shorter intervals.
  • 1 0
 @HB208: dont forget the Elbo grease...
  • 1 0
 @islandforlife: You are probably right, that's just my justification for being lazy and not doing it more often. That said, they probably put a little safety factor in there assuming a lot of people are going to be deferring maintenance a bit beyond recommended intervals.
  • 6 1
 Uphill has the right of way. All trail-user-groups have assholes amongst them.
  • 2 0
 "Anything that arrives in packaging, as you described, has a chance of being damaged in shipping"

Is that not the whole post listed there? I don't see anything description about the packaging, just that the item was damaged.
  • 5 4
 I've bought plenty of carbon parts off eBay. Hylix, for example is a great brand that has nice carbon parts. I bought some of their road bars years ago and they have been great! They were $120 like 8 or 9 years ago. I feel there is a line were carbon is, cheap af watch out and carbon needlessly expensive. I've generally had great luck with ebay carbon frames and wouldn't hesitate to suggest them. I have grown wiser however with $100 carbon rigid forks. No thanks with those.
  • 2 0
 MSR bottle? I would need three to six for the amount of cutting I do on a typical visit to the trail after work. Plus the same amount of bar oil. Seems like maybe my saws are gas guzzlers.
  • 10 0
 Damn, what are you doing? Clear cutting a superhighway through the woods?
  • 4 0
 @shami: splitting a curved logs in four to make four stringers for two wood features. Planing 30” wide downed fir for ‘skinnies’ on a kids trail etc.
  • 2 0
 I like MSR bottles for camping but think the "TruFuel" bottles are better for saw gas. 32oz TruFuel bottle has a smaller neck and no threads on the inside so it pours really nicely, much better than an MSR bottle. Also it's the perfect size to fit in one of the side pockets on my Dakine Builder pack. I use a plastic quart bottle of bar oil, fits in the other side pocket on that pack. Refill both from larger containers as needed. If you are just clearing blowdowns and not making lumber that 32oz bottle plus a full tank in the saw to start is enough gas to work for a full day.

www.lowes.com/pd/TRUFUEL-32-oz-Pre-blended-2-cycle-Fuel/1001840686
  • 1 0
 @Jvisscher: That makes sense, doing those long rips uses a lot of gas.
  • 2 0
 I just repurpose a few 1L gatorade bottles to move saw gas. Haven't had leaking problems yet. When I build I'm typically not going up or down 1000m so no worries about altitude. Pack the saw in full then bring 2 L of fuel in gatorade bottles. Don't drink the stinky gatorade! The smell is overpowering; even if someone was confused and thought you could drink it, they'd likely chuck it before getting to mouth.

Also, why bring a spare bar and chain when you can bring a wedge, sharpener, and (if feeling fancy) stump vise? Hit wedge(s) with back of a hatchet to get bar unstuck then can sharpen as needed with bar in the vise and a 2 in 1 sharpening tool.
  • 2 0
 Working as a tree trimmer thats what we always used when we had to hike into locations. one bottle of fuel and one of bar oil refill at lunch
  • 1 0
 @mtbman1980: Yeah it's free and it works! I still use MSR bottles for stove fuel for backpacking but not for building trail.
  • 1 0
 @raelx: I ran these for trail building in the past. But doing a back to back with borrowed premium pump gas, found there is something lacking in that premixed fuel, my saw runs much better on the pump gas.
  • 5 0
 Do oval chainrings trash rear mech clutches?
  • 4 0
 Remember rear suspension creates a lot more chain growth and RD movement then an oval ring ever could.
  • 2 1
 Yes.
  • 3 0
 I wouldn't say they trash clutches, but they do cause more wear (atleast for Shimano since the clutch is permanently engaged).
  • 2 1
 @c-radicallis: Shimano has a lever to disengage the clutch on their derailleurs.
  • 6 0
 @MisterChow: yup! I always flip my lever to the off position whenever my chainring starts to stretch my chain. Then I flip it back on for the loose chain part of the cycle. Works great! I cover about 12 feet a ride.
  • 1 0
 I have an entire cheap chinese carbon bike. I love cheap chinese carbon. But I will never, NEVER use cheap carbon bars. The material is the same, but the manufacturing techniques just aren't there. Often the drops on road bars are a seperate piece, I know of multiple people who have ripped the drops off completely just riding along
  • 1 0
 at least where i ride in cumberland many trails are mostly downhill so you yield when going up at all but generally you dont ride up dh trails any other multi direction trails i just yield every direction especially because i like to race myself and go for speed but il always stay vigilant of other trail users
  • 1 0
 For the chainsaw question. Do what the loggers do. Two plastic jugs tied together by their handles with a piece of string. They usually use old gallon antifreeze jugs. But since the amount cutting you'd be doing for trail building really isn't that much 2 quart sized gear oil containers work nice.
  • 1 0
 @dazzer20, what does "now my front suspension has gone" mean? Sticky? Soft? Wobbly? No damping? Too much dampening happening inconsistently? Sure a rebuild might help, but at some point with a fork like that bike came with, you'll be able to find a new comparable one for very close to the labor cost of a full rebuild. Sure, it's nice to not throw away bike bits, but it's also nice not to throw away money.

Are you 100% sure the wheel can't be adapted to a thru-axle? Many 100mm and 135mm QR wheels from the last decade have 100x15mm thru-axle end-caps available. Sometimes it's just a matter of removing QR endcaps that slip inside a 15mm axle. If it can be adapter, a new thru-axle fork is well worth it. The superior handling of a more predictable front end is _huge_. Yes, it won't make you a pro overnight, maybe you won't even notice immediately, but your bike _will_ end up going more directly to where your steering intended, and that's always a good thing. It's a very good upgrade, especially with the big 29er wheels putting max leverage on those silly flexy QR drop-outs.
  • 1 0
 "the aluminum MSR bottles? They get mixed reviews on Amazon."

Mixed reviews? 4.8 out of 5, 85% 5 star, 95% 4-star or above... that doesn't sound mixed, sounds pretty good.

Why would it get a magically different score from Pinkbike readers?
  • 1 0
 The uphill right of way makes sense on a two-way trail. And with one way trails, of course it shouldn't even be a topic. But what about trails that are primarily ridden downhill?

We have a real world example of that in a local park. 99% of the time (or more), the trail is ridden in the downhill direction. On this trail it makes sense for downhill to have the right of way. In fact, it is rude to ride it uphill during peak hours. Pretty much everyone else must be thinking the same because so few riders attempt to climb the trail. The defacto downhill right of way hasn't seemed to caused disputes or confrontation.

Thoughts? Is this common? Unofficial downhill right-of-way trails?
  • 1 0
 Joyride and Fully Rigid on Tiger Mountain, summer Saturdays, XC riders going UP the trail. I am all about uphill riders having the right of way but this kind of behavior points to a larger ignorance and lack of situational awareness.
  • 1 0
 A couple of the folks I ride with expect uphill riders to yield to them when they go downhill. They even complain about it after the ride. The funny thing is that I've never seen either of them ever yield to a downhill rider when they are going uphill......
  • 3 0
 Damn I never thought to take second bar and chain rather than finding ingenious ways to free a pinned saw. Live and learn.
  • 3 0
 Wedges!! Granted, you're best off using them to prevent stuck bars rather than freeing an already stuck bar. One of those purchases that I didn't think I really needed but thought it'd be nice to have. Boy have they turned out to be essentials for me. I went with the local outdoor store's version, but there isn't much difference from one plastic wedge to another.

www.stihlusa.com/products/chain-saws/wedges/wedges1
  • 2 0
 My dad and I had to do some work for the neighborhood cutting up trees after a storm and what do I do when I get the saw, I get the bar stuck. The tree pinched the bar half way through the cut. It was the second cut we had made and being the cheap people we were we didn’t have a second bar. To the handsaw it was. We spent over two hours trying to cut the bar out of the tree with a HANDSAW. We definitely learned on that one not to volunteer to help with chainsaw work.
  • 1 0
 @bcoleman3: Its when I catch the wedge and rip it out thats the problem.

Maybe I should just not chainsaw....
  • 1 0
 @benpinnick: "Its when I catch the wedge and rip it out thats the problem."

Yeah that would be a problem
  • 12 8
 The cemetery is filled with people who had the right of way.
  • 3 1
 @mnorris122: all the cemeteries by me have plenty of pets available.
  • 3 0
 Can we get some chainsaw reviews? I've been mulling over buying an electric saw...
  • 2 0
 DeWalt 60v is pretty kick ass.
  • 1 0
 For gas saws, Stihl is the best choice. Ms251 is a good homeowner/trail/general purpose saw.
  • 1 0
 If you plan on using it in the cold I would reconsider. I borrowed a quality electric saw for some work on ski trails in the winter and the batteries died far too quickly for me (and I had a spare in my pack wrapped in a stuff sack with handwarmers). I ended up getting a Stihl 150 with a 12" bar and now it goes on every trailwork day for bike or ski trails. Lightweight, cuts great, and with some creativity the 12" bar manages to handle pretty much anything except for really big stuff, which we don't have to deal with much around here.
  • 1 0
 @milestogo: what electric saw are you referring to?
  • 1 0
 I like my Makita 14" 36V electric saw. I don't have much to compare it to, but it's done everything I've needed it to around the yard and trails. What helped sell me on it is that it runs on their LXT battery platform, which I already had other tools from that line as well
  • 8 0
 Check out Project Farm videos on YouTube, he does an electric chainsaw comparison
  • 1 0
 @whitebirdfeathers: it was a stihl one. It was an early one, say 3-4 years ago, so the batteries may have improved by then. I really wanted to like it, but it just wasnt up for the job. ymmv
  • 1 0
 @milestogo: Battery technology makes all the difference and they have evolved incredibly since you tried one. If you ever try one again go with a major power tool manufacturer as their investment in battery technology is way more substantial than someone who predominantly works, and kicks ass, in the gas world.
  • 1 0
 Echo makes the lightest. Their arborist saw is excellent.
  • 1 0
 Stihl MS 180C, got it when I bought my house ten years ago. Have had to change the carb and filters a couple times (I tend to leave the fuel in the tank for too long) but its been effective and reliable.
  • 1 0
 Another note for new bike guy, at his height the updates in geometry from 2014 to now are huge. Bikes are now made that actually fit us tall guys so I'd strongly recommend upgrading if possible.
  • 1 0
 @Kazimer is sitting somewhere just shaking his head: "THIS is why you need 4 piston brakes on your XC bike, Levy. It's so you can stop at all times and yield to the rider pedaling uphill!"
  • 1 1
 I'd rather cheap carbon then cheap aluminum. Carbon is easy enough to reinforce if needed and really easy to moniter. Cheap aluminum is just garbage no matter what you do with it and is actually more likely to break without warning.
  • 1 1
 "tried to break them by pushing down as hard as possible"

It's not hard to make a chunk of CFRP that can hold up an average sized human, or even a large human, but it is a bit harder to consistently make a piece that can hold up to an average sized human bouncing around on it during thousands of miles of bike riding, and resist the vibrations that, while often small in overall amplitude, can have very abrupt "hits" over and over again, and resist potential impacts (to a point). Basically, your "test jig" only tested one single aspect of the bar's "strength", and while not completely useless, is far from a complete examination of the bar quality and suitability for the intended use
  • 1 0
 I mean... it broke in shipping what is there to test? Its obvious a weak part. It breaking in shipping and not on the jig just confirms the jig is useless.
  • 1 0
 @RonSauce: OP said only one side broke. And just because it broke in shipping doesn't mean it won't hold up to a person. The forces and impacts might take being shipped in a crappy wrapper aren't the same forces that a rider puts in them.
  • 3 0
 Has any one ever tried to measure how much weight their boner can lift? asking for a freind
  • 1 0
 I'm a year in and many many rides on a Toseek carbon railed saddle. Super comfy and zero complaints. I think it's 162 grams, and is one of the better saddles I've ever owned. I was leery about a carbon bar, though....
  • 3 0
 But wait .. what about my stickers?
  • 2 0
 how did it go from £38 bars to heated political debates over the governments handling of covid
  • 6 0
 It's the internet...
  • 1 2
 I have a fantastic solution for solving 'Carbon Obsession Disorder'. This will solve all your chinese and all other sources of carbon problems. DON'T BUY CARBON!!!! Stick to quality metal bikes and components always! Stay Metal, Protect Your Wallet and Save Your Face!
  • 1 0
 im cringing just thinking about that high speed cheap carbon bars crash.
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