Now Finished: Ask Us Anything - Atherton Bikes on Launching Direct to Consumer Sales
Updated at 12pm Pacific / 7pm GMT: Thanks for having us today and for all of your questions. We will do our best to reply to anything that we've missed. Your support means a lot to us and we hope to see you all out on the trails soon.
The Athertons first announced Atherton Bikes back in January of 2019, and now, after just over three years testing and developing products, the brand has launched direct to consumer sales. They are currently offering two models, a World Cup winning Downhill bike with 200mm of travel and a newly refined version of the 29”, 150mm Enduro bike. Further product releases are scheduled for Spring.
We wanted to know more about the team behind Atherton Bikes and their additive manufacturing process (3d printing in titanium) in Machynlleth, mid Wales, so we thought it would be a perfect opportunity for you to ask Dan Atherton, Gee Atherton, Rachel Atherton, Dan Brown, Rob Gow, and Will May-White your questions.
Dan Atherton –Director
Dan is a World Cup winner, trail-building genius and MTB visionary renowned for events such as Red Bull Hardline and pushing the boundaries of the sport. He built his first bike when he was 10 years old and is the creative whirlwind behind Dyfi Bike Park.
Dan is a World Cup winner, trail-building genius and MTB visionary renowned for events such as Red Bull Hardline and pushing the boundaries of the sport. He built his first bike when he was 10 years old and is the creative whirlwind behind Dyfi Bike Park.
Gee Atherton –Director
Double World Champion and double World Cup Overall Champion Gee has multiple World Cup wins and over 50 podiums to his credit. He is renowned for his toughness and spectacular rides at events such as Red Bull Rampage where he won a silver medal and his awesome big mountain projects.
Double World Champion and double World Cup Overall Champion Gee has multiple World Cup wins and over 50 podiums to his credit. He is renowned for his toughness and spectacular rides at events such as Red Bull Rampage where he won a silver medal and his awesome big mountain projects.
Rachel Atherton - Co-founder
Six times World Champion and 39 times World Cup winner Rachel is an icon of the sport. Serious injury and getting back up to speed on her bike after the birth of her daughter Arna give Rach a unique perspective on the role of confidence and how Atherton bikes can help you progress as a rider.
Six times World Champion and 39 times World Cup winner Rachel is an icon of the sport. Serious injury and getting back up to speed on her bike after the birth of her daughter Arna give Rach a unique perspective on the role of confidence and how Atherton bikes can help you progress as a rider.
Dan Brown - Chief Executive Officer
Dan Brown has worked with the Atherton family for over 15 years, building the Atherton Racing brand through ground-breaking media projects such as the Atherton Project and helping three young athletes to become masters of their own destiny as well as directors of an impressive business portfolio.
Dan Brown has worked with the Atherton family for over 15 years, building the Atherton Racing brand through ground-breaking media projects such as the Atherton Project and helping three young athletes to become masters of their own destiny as well as directors of an impressive business portfolio.
Rob Gow - Chief Designer
Rob is an obsessive problem-solver, a keen downhill rider for over 20 years, a dad of three and a committed environmentalist. Rob honed his skills at design-led companies such as Dyson and Omlet and has been a key part of our start-up from the beginning.
Rob is an obsessive problem-solver, a keen downhill rider for over 20 years, a dad of three and a committed environmentalist. Rob honed his skills at design-led companies such as Dyson and Omlet and has been a key part of our start-up from the beginning.
Will May-White - Lead Manufacturing Engineer
Will has been shredding bikes since he was 12 years old, he has over ten years’ experience in Additive Manufacturing and CNC machining. Will joins us from Rolls Royce Aerospace after his dissertation on “ Can advanced design and manufacturing replace traditional methods in Mountain-biking” caught our attention…
Will has been shredding bikes since he was 12 years old, he has over ten years’ experience in Additive Manufacturing and CNC machining. Will joins us from Rolls Royce Aerospace after his dissertation on “ Can advanced design and manufacturing replace traditional methods in Mountain-biking” caught our attention…
Credit Sven Martin
How ‘Ask Us Anything' Works:
Starting at 9:00 AM PDT/5:00 PM GMT today, January 19th, you can type your questions for Atherton Bikes into the comment box below this article and the guys will have a crack at answering them. Sometimes your answer will pop up in a few seconds; others may take a few minutes while Dan Atherton, Gee Atherton, Rachel Atherton, Dan Brown, Rob Gow, and Will May-White work their way through questions that are popping up. Everyone who posts a question, large or small, will be taken seriously.
To make this go as smoothly as possible, try to follow these guidelines:
• Keep your questions relevant
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• Ask Us Anything is a service to PB readers who are seeking helpful information, not a forum to broadcast opinions or grievances. If you do have an issue that you want to ask about, no worries, just keep your complaints relevant and in the context of a question so that it can be addressed in a productive manner
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Great to see you all as a family/team making and shredding your bikes! And congrats Rachel on the inimitable Arna!
Looks, geo, the whole thing is dialed - its just $8k is big coin and the need to get a feel, make sure Im getting the right size, all that matters.
Follow up question can you please not tell my GF that I've found the new love of my life?
1. The titanium lugs look awesome but can't tell how much it affects the frame weight versus full carbon.
2. How repairable are the bikes? For example if the down tube gets cracked, are you guys able to replace just that tube? That would be really cool from a sustainability perspective.
3. Along that thread - bonus question - if it's repairable like that, i wonder if another selling point is that you can for a certain amount of $ put a longer top tube/down tube
1. The titanium is used in areas where composites don’t work so well - namely where shapes are complex and loads are multi-directional. The result is a frame around the same weight as a full carbon frame but that is customisable, stronger (less prone to manufacturing defects) and more durable.
2. Carbon tubes are repairable if damage is away from the titanium lug.
3. Great idea but afraid that it won’t work as lugs are specific to tube length.
Similarly, have you considered allowing customers to custom spec their components and effectively have a true custom build?
We constantly review these algorithms and update the fit calculator accordingly.
Re "other factors" this is something we are looking at but it is a very complex piece of work to do in a meaningful way, but watch this space...
Custom spec bikes - yes, we currently offer this.
On the Additive Manufacturing side neither AlSi10Mg or 17-4 stainless are anywhere near the mechanical performance of Ti6Al4V - but that aside the material price is still not the dominant cost driver for lugs - it is the amortisation of the AM machine. There are other factors too, such as the reflectivity of aluminium meaning that builds are slower.
For the carbon tubes we’re confident that we’ve struck the best balance of performance and affordability. We use very well established Mitsubishi fibres and resins that and choose the best combination depending on which tube it is - the seat tube features a higher strength fibre as it the most heavily loaded on the frame.
Now, £4k a frame is the exact oposite of affordable. Will prices come down eventually?
Essentially a six bar linkage gives the designer more freedom to tune each component of the suspension behaviour than a four bar linkage does. DW6 doesn't even really look particularly similar to DW - it's more like a Horst with a virtual lower frame pivot - however as @endoplasmicreticulum indicated, even two suspensions based on the same patent don't necessarily have to behave similarly. You might be able to make DW6 behave the same as DW, but then why not just use DW?
Interested also in your views on the longevity of the bike. If I felt like I could keep one of your bikes on the road for a long time then Id buy one. I thinking about things like how often bearings/pivots should be replaced, replacement parts from damage or fatigue etc. The industry could really do with some more lifetime commitment for major components.
As for suspension travel, 150mm was our ideal trail bike and what we choose to lead with.... plenty more to come......
Any frames break? I heard some people were riding in the bikepark and someone on one of the olders frames was riding too and cracked the carbon downtube. Wonder how many frames have failed and if the can be rebuilt?
AlsoX why do you paint the ti lugs black? They look way better in raw ti.
This would be one of your first updates in my humble opinion! Best of luck though, love to ride one.
Are there any plans to have a production facility in other countries ?
North America?
And therefore eliminate the oversees shipping ?
How many people does it theoretically take to adjust the CAD files for each frame, print it, refine it and glue it?
A team of multiple people or all just one ?
yeh, Dave probably would say that!
I watched the 'dream build' video and the whole process is fantastic - not seen additive manufacturing/printing before.
How much would you save (time/labour etc) by not having the badge as part of the headtube print? Looks like a lot of finishing goes into that area.
It also makes sense for testing new designs because you could mock-up prototypes super quickly.
rach
I can choose between the '460 low' - or go custom for 1mm shorter reach, 16 mm LONGER(?) seat tube. Which would somehow drop the stand over height by 3 mm. Everything else being equal.
Well, since your PM seems to be on the wat out as we speak (wishfull thinking, I know), you might be able to speed things up by going for PM.
I ask this because you guys mention that one of the reasons these bikes ride so well are because are aligned and within standard and tolerances.
The geo is completely different (29 vs 27.5 for starters), but most significantly we completely revisited the kinematic and chassis feel, based on the testing and feedback from the Athertons and other race team members. For example, the rear end construction is completely different, and has been tuned for the various different products.
Used to seeing 76deg plus seat angles and 63deg head angles whereas yours seem possibly a little dated in comparison. Or is this counter- acted with something else on the bike or do you feel this is the best geo for the bike?
Further to Will’s answer… Vinay we couldn’t agree more! We’re not sure why anyone would ever want to part with their Atherton Bikes as it’ll be perfect for them…
In the unlikely event that a frame does reach the end of its life, presently frames can be sent to a carbon recycler where the tubes are cut out - the titanium in the lugs is valuable and can be recycled and the tubes can go down various routes of reclaiming fibres or ground for use as a filler in other applications.
We do, however, have in our roadmap work to develop the means to recover the lugs to allow for their use again as a bike - watch this space!
What is your main selling point that justifies the very high prices?
Was curious what adhesive you use in the tubes to lugs bonding process?
Cheers
I don't know if the kinematics have changed, but it looks pretty similar.
Thansk!
And 2nd. What have you done to protect the pivot bearings? Some companies use o rings or labyrinth seal. Some use nothing.
Re reliability/durability/strength testing, we have 2 basic approaches:
1. Our frames get lab tested at EFBE in Germany (leading bike frame test house). They have a series of 7 test procedures specifically developed to replicate different riding types (enduro, DH, xc, etc). We have cherry picked the hardest tests from each, i.e. impacts from DH test, fatigue from Enduro, and created our own mega test. The first frame that we sent for test had already been ridden at Dyfi for 6 months by Affy, and it passed with flying colours (most manufacturers use a new frame for each test - we did all 7 on one).
We test all of our frames, whether DH or Trail to this protocol - our trail bike has to capable of surviving Affy!
2. We have a fleet of frames getting relentlessly hammered by the race team and associated riders (dyfi dig crew). We constantly review these bikes and basically try to break them every day!
A high pivot Downhill rig would be really great. I guess you guys must have already a prototype, but prob don’t want to show it?
1. Decentralised Manufacturing
2. Topology Optimisation
3. Increased Geometric Freedom
4. Reduced Part Counts
Do Atherton Bikes feel it has aligned itself with these tenets?
Are the lugs made from Ti-6Al-4V? Are you able to control the Martensite phase transformations during the production of the lugs? If so how is this achieved? Preheating the build platform or an optical preheating process?
I'd probably recommend making @mikekazimer a 200mm enduro sled with dual crowns and a 90deg STA. Or make @mikelevy a 90mm travel bike with a 59deg head angle.
Since bringing AM in house, we have made several changes to optimise the part/support structure to aid in better powder removal, which allows more powder to be reused, thus reducing change over time. Also, these changes have allowed us to nest the parts more efficiently which gives us a large yield.
While we share a similar suspension platform with them we are very different.
Our bikes are:
Made from Titanium (A pretty good material to make a bike out of)
Handcrafted (By people who love making bikes, and you can ride with us if you are up Dyfi bike park)
We make more than 5 sizes
Are tested by some handy riders, so good they put their name on the bike.
Unique are rare (Come and join the club)
And most importantly, It will make Athy smile if you buy one.
As an engineer student, I’d love to work for you guys one day in the future and drive the company and technology.
Great work Team!
Who do you see as the Atherton brand main competitor?
There is very little for an average Joe, who can get a better known brand or more value elsewhere.
They will be just fine.
Yes high tech is expensive, but why not make it more cost effective!
Be handy to know so I can have a word next time I'm at Dyfi...
please?
looks really like great bikes, but i cant understand why there are 180mm Rotors on an Enduro bike?
Love coming to Dyfi, is there anychance i can hire a Atherton bike for the day when i next come to try it out?
Wellllll
I’d love to see the new 170 as a full 275 park bike, I’m sure Dan loves it.
Then a second link for the 150 to bump up the travel to 160.
So that you could have two bikes with the same frame. 150/150 trail all round bike and a 170/160 enduro race bike. Based on the same frame.
Complaining about the price of a bike you won't buy. Seriously?
its just so exciting when we meet and see people on our bikes out and about, its surreal still! ;-)
As a customer looking to spend several thousands of my hard earned money on a new bike I would need to be really convinced. Convinced their construction methods would last a few years of riding in all elements and temperatures. Not just surviving a crash here and there.