Bike Check: Levy Batista's Rocky Mountain Instinct Powerplay

 Haha Haha, this is the best comment on here.

 Yeah was going to mention that Gonzo has made an interesting new career choice.

 You forgot the "e" in your name. @coletrane-"e"mtb

 No I think people are mad because they see the sport going out of touch.

 I've ridden a couple and I still think they're lame.

 Nice 2017 comment. FYI everyone I know has tried an ebike but only one has bought one. And he’s kinda old and tired.

 @BoneDog: bingo

 I was in the hater's camp until my 65 year old father bought a Norco Fluid VLT. He absolutely loves it and can now keep up and go all day long with younger people. I'm in my 40's and I think it'll be a while before I get one for myself, but they're definitely here to stay. They're amazing machines.

 @aciddrop: I think that is the only application we can all get behind, however, already seeing mostly young riders who have no business on the biking trails using this as an access to the sport and getting themselves in deep troubles walking down 90% of the shoots. It would be like if someone developed a f*cking electric rock climbing assistance system for people who can't rock climb due to skill or strength.. its just a big nope in so many ways. haters gonna hate.

 @BoneDog: Kinda histrionic.

 @BoneDog:

Pretending that you were ever in touch with the sport because you own a regular mtb is hilarious

Also please stop gatekeeping who can and can not bike the trails. You don't build them, you aren't the authority on fitness or general mtb riding, you are part of the crowd. Ride your ride and let others do the same.

 @phops: The industry is constantly looking for ways to commercialize. The E-bike as it is today is fairly harmless, but you would be very ignorant to not anticipate how commercialization doesn't give a f*ck about our trails.

If we don't take the right precautions, you are bound to see shit evolve just like this:

Phase one: The innocent E-bike:
Phase Two: The innocent E-bike - with some aftermarket mods, twist throttle etc. - (This is where we are right now, seen it first hand)
Phase Three: Adult version of this: www.pinkbike.com/news/mondraker-releases-grommy-e-balance-mtbs.html
Phase Four: Newbs think this is biking (www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5X49OHNu0o)

End of the day, we are headed towards a very interesting and challenging space for the already fragile biking community hated by everyone. We do not have the resources to police the trails, already its becoming hard to define what is an E-bike and were to draw the line.

sure, I've heard the argument "it has to have pedals" "you cant have a throttle" etc....who's gonna make those calls? how much power is to much? and if there are rules, you gonna come up with the funding for By-law to sit at your local trail head? of course not...

all I saying is we can't just ignore the direction of the sport and you must have major horse blinders on to think everything is good and chill.

 @BoneDog: I'm already seeing Sur Rons being ridden as ebikes on our local multi use trails, you can buy them at the hardware store. We went from phase one to four in about 2 years here in Colorado.

 @BoneDog: You’ve got all your phases but are seemingly ignorant of the three EBike classes? I’m confused.

 It's this that's the problem: "I see so many people who can hardly ride them, particularly downhill, and they don't even bother wearing protective gear"
and it's only going to get worse as the marketing ratchets up toward "never ever" cyclists. The people I personally know that have bought e-bikes are either serious cyclists buying a commuter bike or "never evers" that decided they want to start mountain biking but don't want to work for it, completely anecdotal so therefor invalid, sure. But that's the way the wind is blowing and it's likely going to cause all kinds of issues with land access, user group conflicts, lawsuits, etc.

 @chacou:

When you say its only going to get worse, or cause issues with land access, group conflicts, lawsuits, please realize that you are speaking completely from made up things in your head.

Ebikes have been around for some time now and none of that has happened.

 @phops: It is very much becoming an issue in the Denver metro area and front range trails.

 @phops: ...also I've stated on another article, I'm not a hardcore "anti-emtb". I see a place for them for sure, our trails director uses one, he's in his 60s and been riding probably longer than I've been alive, his knees are shot and he wouldn't otherwise get to ride the trails he works very hard on without an emtb, he recognizes the issues of pushing people into emtb. People come visit CO from low elevations and can't hack handle the altitude, renting an emtb is a great way to get to ride. People have health issues that limit their ability to exert themselves, by all means use an emtb. Trail teams need to get tools way back, hiking takes a long time, riding is exhausting, emtb can help. There's other instances that aren't fitness or health related BUT when "the industry" starts marketing emtb as some new superior alternative to "analog" mtb especially toward "never evers", and the race becomes marketing/selling emtb to completely able bodied adults and kids because it's newer, cooler, easier, faster, and look at how quickly you can get to the top and bomb back down again and again. Then there becomes a big problem, it's a slippery slope to the trails being clogged with emtb and going from long fought for and developed single track to being "mini-motocross trails". Moto is super fun, but it shouldn't be on trails that are mixed use and mtb has worked very hard to get to use those trails, this is also due to the general increase in mtb, but a lot of that is being driven by the increase in use of emtb ...I don't know what the answer is, but my opinion is that "the industry", UCI, PB, etc. are not thinking through all the repercussions of where this heavy marketing and development of emtb is going to take us.

 @chacou:

Its not. I promise you that you are hyping this up to be an issue based on something that has no basis in reality.

I don't know how to explain this to you guys, but the whole thing about people buying ebikes, and riding irresponsibly and then causing a trail to be shut down JUST DOES NOT HAPPEN. If ebikers are riding in areas that say no ebikes, its usually in small minority, and land management will deal with those cases individually.

> There's other instances that aren't fitness or health related BUT when "the industry" starts marketing emtb as some new superior alternative to "analog" mtb especially toward "never evers", and the race becomes marketing/selling emtb to completely able bodied adults and kids because it's newer, cooler, easier, faster, and look at how quickly you can get to the top and bomb back down again and again.

Then there becomes a big problem, it's a slippery slope to the trails being clogged

Again please realize that the last sentence has zero basis on anything reality. Look at the current riding conditions, trail systems are already clogged by plenty of people on analog bikes after everyone and their mother bought one during the lockdown. Nothing to do with emtbs. I can easily make a opinion counterpoint and say that emtbs are too expensive to cause any real clogging issues. Should we stop selling cheap mtbs to reduce clogging?

I also would bet that you don't pick up a shovel and build trails, you just ride the trails, for free, that were built mostly by volunteers, yet you somehow feel that you can say what is the appropriate use for the trails based on YOUR preference. So what if the trails are crowded?

If you are a land owner and want no ebikes on your property, by all means enforce that rule. But as a rider, its silly to pretend that ebikes are a problem when the issue is just your insecurities. Its not that hard to admit to yourself that you are just jealous of people who havent trained being able to ride the same rides without breaking a sweat. Once you admit it, you realize how silly it is to hold jealousy in the first place, and you can move past it.

 @phops:
- "JUST DOES NOT HAPPEN" => "HASN'T HAPPENED YET TO ME"
- "land management will deal with those cases individually." => I don't think you're very familiar how public land managers react, a small minority can/will easily ruin it for everyone
- "I also would bet that you don't pick up a shovel and build trails, you just ride the trails, for free" => couldn't be further from the truth, not only do I dig but I also spend time in meetings, planning, and organizing trying to get land managers to open up more land, in my "spare" time and taking time off from my day job

Whatever man, shred on, don't forget to charge your batteries.

 @chacou:

>small minority can/will easily ruin it for everyone

Its honestly mindblowing how you are incapable of realizing that your statements like this, which have zero backing evidence, are simply your bias, but yet you state them as fact. Perhaps this is just a human thing though.

>couldn't be further from the truth, not only do I dig but I also spend time in meetings, planning, and organizing trying to get land managers to open up more land, in my "spare" time and taking time off from my day job

You don't lmao. If you actually spent time doing any of that shit you would have real evidence to point to to support your case against ebikes and state the fact that you do this work BEFORE you are challenged on it, or you would not be anti-ebike because you would realize from your experience that they aren't a problem.

 Yup

 That is funny. Props to you.

 whoa there big fella, I don't hate the machine I hate how they paint it...fukc why do bother. go back to sleep.

 Go to your profile, hit edit profile, then hit "new settings". There is a box to exclude EMTB content from your feed. Cheers!

 Leave the website for good.

 @phops: awww did your e-feelings get hurt again?

 @CircusMaximus: Odd response, seeing as how CTD’s original comment just drips hurt feelings. So hurt he couldn’t even figure out how the filter works.

 @CircusMaximus: Ugh, how do I filter out E-Feeling content? I prefer my analog/acustic feels thank you very much.

 @Chuckolicious: everybody’s so sensitive. Have a good day all...riding whatever you ride.

 @nastee-nate: thanks!

 @CircusMaximus: Us ebike fans prefer the term "efended"

 @CircusMaximus: that’s the spirit!

 @ctd07: you should send a terse letter to a mod

 @ctd07: Dunno about the other guy, but I’m a scream, and also a big hit with the ladies. Now stop commenting that I should stop commenting. :-D

 @thegoodflow: Nah, the times I've demoed one I was too busy having fun to notice. Plenty of play off the mountain. #5thyear

 @thegoodflow: Cheers mate!

 Does that work if you keep the bike check tag?

 LOL

 @monkeybizz: FAKE NEWS!!!!

 Don't be dense, it's the same "point" as all professional racing. To promote and sell product.

 $$$ industry growth trying to find new marketable areas.

 Ha! Okay, actually that's a totally justifiable answer to me - C.R.E.A.M. I can't wait 'til we have AI robots racing E-EWS and we are just spineless slugs following behind on our E-couch drones. I'm going to pitch this to Philip K Dick's ghost.

 Like many probably, I still don't quite understand how e-bike competition works. Is it just like the unassisted competition but just with the pedal assistance and you can use it at will? If you bring more capacity and power it is all fine and the only downside is that you have to carry it yourself? I know there must be written regulations somewhere but I'm no lawyer and making my way through those will take forever. It is cool that Pinkbike accepts that not everyone is an (armchair) engineer, PT or nutrition expert and they write good articles for everyone to grasp. But it would be nice if they accept that not everyone is able to work through UCI regulations (without dozing off) so it would be really nice if they'd do an article explaining what it is all about.

Back to the OP, along with an "explainer" it may be sweet if a top competitor who's competed in both would explain how they compare. Nicolas Vouilloz comes to mind but I think there are more than a few amazing riders out there who we're familiar with from unassisted racing who now compete (or have competed) on e-bikes. Rough guess would be that e-bike racing takes more strength whereas the unassisted counterpart requires more endurance. But yeah, would be cool if we could leave the rough guesswork behind.

 www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkCxTmrkCnw

www.youtube.com/watch?v=cssd4yYwdDw

 @Nygaard: How so? I can definitely see myself getting one once most of my riding friends get one. I still push close to 2000km on my trail bike, and love the fitness, but when someone gets to ride twice or three times as far in the same time as me, it makes me start to wonder who really has it figured out. Don’t be a hater - you do you

 They are none!

 @DARKSTAR63: Funny, I thought the point was to win

 I don't get it either. At least they should name it differently than "Enduro" World Series-Electric. Enduro is a race that tests endurance and speed.

 @Nygaard: I don't have an e-bike. I don't plan on getting one. But they are FAR from pointless.. 'round here - we have a fave riding spot called 'Forbidden Plateau' (ie. namesake of 'Forbidden Bikes') - its a 45min - 1hr brutal climb... and the decent happens much too quickly. I can pedal top to bottom x2 in any given day.. but thats it. I'm out of gas. Lots of ppl shuttle up with their trucks..

E-bike? How about x4 runs to the top - with NO TRUCK NECESSARY. Are you starting to figure this out? Ferhecksakes there is even an e-bike called the 'Shuttle'... That is 'the point' mon ami.. getting x2 the runs in as a normally aspirated bike and leaving the gas burning truck (and poor shuttle driver) at home.

There is a place for these things and 'shuttling' sans gas burner is it.

 @CDT77: That's what somehow got wrong at the image factory, hasn't it? Uphill shuttles, cable cars, helicopters even never affected the "cool" image of mountainbikers. But suddenly people using pedal assist to help them up climbs are considered lazy and having no skill and/or fitness. I'd blame it on the image factory.

 @thegoodflow: Zero if / when I bike to said location from my home. Which I often (but not always) do. If I do drive - maybe 12 miles. The 'gas burner' drive to the bottom of the shuttle road is flat(ish) and gentle - the shuttle road up is obviously steep and taxes the engine / suspension much more.

 @Nygaard: I upvoted you - because you raise valid points re a common misconception the elec. powered vehicles are in some way morally superior to gas powered (I worked in oil, coal & lithium industries) - however your statement re 'elec. generated by coal burning' is not accurate for Canada (proportionally).

Also - I am going out on a limb here - but 'overweight POS' might be generalizing a bit. The bike in the article probably slays pretty hard DH.

My motivation in responding to your original comment is that e-bikes are not pointless.

 I would much rather watch ebike racing than xc racing.

 @Nygaard: haha, funny to see people so worked up about something they don’t even have to take part in! Let me people do what they want

 @Nygaard: Yea, your suspicion is laughably wrong. But don’t let
That stop ya! Gotta shyte on that evil other tribe to virtue signal to your tribe that you’re worth still feeding.

 @Nygaard: speaking for others now. Not a good look, dudebro

 @Nygaard: ok now you’re just a ranting kook.

 @Nygaard: and you're typing on a keyboard made from the same coal power plant with material mined by slave labor....

 @CDT77: Nailed it.

 @CDT77: Curious. Do you ride the road up or is there singletrack climb too? I rode there a few weeks ago and while the climb has some punchy sections, its pretty civilized apart from being buzzed by the shuttlers! The descent was well worth it imo.

 @ajrogers1978: There are two basic ways up to the top of Forbidden; 1) 100% road (sounds like you did) from the Nymph Falls side 2) 70/30% logging rd / single track from the Comox Dam side..

Personally I am split on which way I like better.. the 100% road side I feel is easier (the Comox Dam side is much more punchy!) but the dust can get bad on the road side.. you can duck into lower trails much easier from the Comox Dam side too.. hope this helps!

 @Nygaard: Really? That's fascinating. Please, tell us more, oh severly biased one.

 @CDT77: re: moral superiority, while LI batteries do have their share of issues.....energy production is much more efficient, has massive economies of scale and is much more regulated and regularly inspected when it's a stand-alone powerplant, yes even coal. There are millions of cars on the road, some with working emissions systems, some without and many probably somewhere in-between.....not to mention driving style effects on mileage, maintenance on vehicles, oil changes, rad fluid, trans, etc and waste products that you wouldn't have with a E-rig.

www.forbes.com/sites/mikescott/2020/03/30/yes-electric-cars-are-cleaner-even-when-the-power-comes-from-coal/#6de08cb32320

 @CDT77: 100% - this was something I guess I didn't get initially when I thought they were lame....then started thinking, wait a minute....I can get in 6 laps vs 3, get the crummy 'shuttle' climb outta the way, get rid of a bunch trucks burning gas and kicking up dust....what's not to like about that? There are also several moto trail areas that can be much more easily used with one of these.

Although, there are certainly some pristine climbs that need to be 'earned' IMO, stuff like Into the Mystic.....

 @CDT77: Yup. I usually refer to e-bike rides as self-shuttling whereas regular bike rides are going for a pedal. Both have their merits, both have their downsides. Both of them can be one hell of a lot of fun.

 @mnorris122: Of course there are more than a few reason one might race, I race myself and I do that not to win nor for financial gain. But bike companies pay people to race for exposure....

 @CDT77: Exactly. There is an e-bike mountain bike specific trail system in Washington called Darrington. The standard bikes are shuttling this trail in there F150's and Tacoma's burning gas for 2-3 runs. The e-bike folks are climbing it for 2 laps. It's 7000 ft of vert and to get that you have to climb in a lower power mode. E-bikes are not all BRAAAAP like everyone who hasn't ridden one seem to make them out to be.

 @Nygaard: I used to work and live in Denmark many years ago, and a Danish friend of mine once showed me the ``danish mountain``: Skanderborg: 171m. Highest point in Denmark.
So indeed, getting an e-bike in Denmark is actually absurd, as well as using any long travel mountain bike.
Therefore, are you fully concerned and connected to that subject?
Skøl!

 While e bike xc racing is stupid, e bike Enduro racing is going to be awesome. More time racing, less time climbing, and the climbing stages are what is really going to set it apart from regular ews. The racers choosing to do it are obviously guys who love e bikes and think they are more fun. I fully expect e bike ews racing to become more popular than regular e bike racing within a few years.

 @CDT77: It does, thanks! Yeah 100% road up from the lake car park, past he airfiled and up. I can imagine that road becoming a dustbowl once it finally dries out! Such a fun zone though

 @michaeldorian: I did two laps on my normal bike, pedaling. Not such a big deal.

 @MorganBH: lol did he really just call Darrington e-bike specific? I did 4 laps over 2 days self powered and it was totally fine. E-bike completely unnecessary

 Perhaps it's because EWS has become staged downhill racing. Boring fireroad climb up or chair lift and DH course down. A heavier e-mtb might actually handle better for this. And just maybe, it will eliminate the chairlift so there will be more time on the bike.

 @tacklingdummy: Do you have the same thoughts about moto Enduro?

 @2wls4ever: Time for a new racing discipline? Tech climbs and tech descends. Obviously as in XC racing, the climbs take longer so they'd be the determining element. Unless the descend times would be multiplied by a factor three or four or so (and the climbs aren't). Five inch travel bikes still make sense for the riding most of us do and some competition in that zone would be cool. Not necessarily saying we need competition for everything but as enduro indeed has shifted towards (mini-)DH type racing, they've left a new gap.

 @vinay: sometimes "Super D" courses can be setup more for a 5" trail bike. Linking two faster so stages together with a timed fitness transfer. Or one of them just have a handful of uphills littered throughout them to keep ya honest. Kinda fun

 @Nwilkes: Yeah but just like the timed descends, the timed uphills should actually be worth it. Not just a slug fest, but actual tech. Heck, it would take a couple more observers to do this properly but make these uphills actual trials-like. In that you lose points when you put a foot down .

 @Nwilkes @vinay always thought they could do uphill "stages" too.....they could have the Enduro overall which factors in uphill time. To keep guys on XC bikes making 20 minutes on the climbs and only losing 5 on the downs you'd have to weight the descending portion to have more total impact...but I've raced a handful of Enduro races and thought it would be a great 'downcountry' course to ride in one shot. I guess the caveat would be there would still need to be areas to wait/rest while queuing for the descending stages that should not timed....

 @RadBartTaylor: Oh yeah, I still think these should be considered stages too. A few minutes at most. This would allow them to be super intense, tech and explosive. It would allow riders to give all they've got because there is still some time to prepare before the stage and some time to recover after it. If it would be one long ride, it would just be XC again (or single lap trail like the BCBR). I think the shorter stages tap into a different quality, they reward different riders. What's also nice about the enduro format is that you have the friendly not-timed sections in between where you get to see the same group of people throughout the day. So yeah, I think stage racing is cool. I just think it could be more varied than the descending dominated racing we see in the current enduro series.

The "weights" could be one way to balance the climbing and descending stages. Another (and possibly more sensible) way would be that the climbing stages are just shorter (in length) so that in time, they are kind of equal. So ten minute descending stages, ten minute climbing stages. And there will still be untimed transfer sections that cover the more boring fireroad (climbs) just to get from one stage to the other.

 @chacou:

Replace the e-bike with Yeti, and you can find similar experiences from MANY people. Riders are the problem, not the bikes they are on.

Also, complaining that they ruined your decent on a trail where its yield to climber and blaming it on ebikes is actually hilarious.

 @chacou: chill virgin

 @phops: I never complained that they ruined my descent, you inferred that because I mention that I yielded to them while I was descending as they're climbing, which is the "rules of the trail" around here, yield to uphill traffic, bikes yield to hikers and horses. I'm complaining that they must've felt entitled to disobey "no e-bike" designated trails and ignore common trail etiquette. It's by no means indicative of the whole of the emtb community, but rather by "expanding the net" and bringing more people into mtb by way of emtb these kinds of interactions will likely increase as people ignore signage and long held trail etiquette because they just need to get to the top quickly and easily so they can rip down, everyone else be damned.

 @chacou: I’m a big advocate of trail etiquette because I know a little courtesy goes a long way particularly between different user groups. My thoughts are that eMTB users should yield to all other users at all times. I say this knowing that I will most likely be on an eMTB in the next five years or so. Holding off as long as I can.

 @EricHarger: 100%, I'll likely be on an emtb later in life, but putting it off as long as I can as well. Nothing on PB comments changes anything, just a bunch of venting by "keyboard warriors" arguing for/against one's convictions, or just trolling. My wariness is the way in which the industry is going about marketing emtb, but what can you do, they're businesses and they can create the demand and other people will figure out what to do about any fallout.

 @cirque4: cirque!! You replied to my comment last time too and where heavily downvoted. The crowd seems extra disgruntled with the evil soul killing ebikes today, so it will be interesting to see if that happens again. I will say that despite your state being unequivocally false, I applaud your consistency. Thank you for checking in! Til next time. Xoxo

 Yes. Its steel, so stronger.

 Honest question: why not be happy that your friend is having fun riding, rather than you being bitter that you still can’t clean the section? Seems like your idea of fun is only in relation to what others are doing?
Think of the satisfaction you’ll have when you’re finally about to get up that section on your own.

 Not sure if satire or actually butt hurt...

 @modelcitizen: You completely missed the point. I'm not unhappy with my friend that he made it. I'm not unhappy with myself that I haven't. I'm actually not unhappy at all. I'm just confused as to where these machines fit in our sport.
I'm bitter that as they get more and more powerful the lines between an e-bike and a motorcycle will become more blurry. The genie is out of the bottle so to speak,
I rode dirt bikes competitively for years but that's a different sport.
I could crush the climb on a KTM 250 but what would be the point ?
But, some old bastard probably had the exact same reservations when those damn fangled motor cars first started showing up...

 @Bailey100: yeah, you're butt hurt

 @Bailey100: the 'point' as far as I I can see, is that the elderly and infirm can get out on bikes.. And that's fantastic, it really is!

The point for those who are able bodied seems to be 'I can ride more because my bike takes me up the climbs', 'my kids on their ebikes can keep up with me now so I don't have to hang around for them' and 'I work hard for my money so I'll have whatever toy I want, regardless of the environmental effect'. I. E. Strapping batteries to a design that never needed them before.. Only to end up in landfilll as they degrade

And I can't really argue with any of those standpoints to be honest, it's just a different mindset.. And I constantly forget the diverse range of people who use this site

 @nordland071285: fair enough, well said

 Having a 2x is cheating, btw.
Real MTB’ers only use one chainring.

 @modelcitizen: haha you are correct sir! I do rock the single ring, That was my sad attempt at a witty ending.

 I totaly agree dude. But I also agree that if you want to ride an ebike, then thats cool as well. They are not mountain bikes but they are being elevated by the industry and the industry needs to sell bikes to evolve and survive. I ride my 26" 140mm trail bike as much as my 27.5 160mm ....enduro bike????? If you come off the trails buzzing, does it matter what you ride??? But yes, I agree, ebikes are about selling, not riding.

 @TreeBeak: Yea man I'm with all of that. Also, I'm waiting until they make one with an espresso machine built in...then who knows :p

 @mcozzy:

 @Bikedude666: I would buy that

 Yet.

 Just noticed it’s an e-bike. Thought it was a error at first and they meant 25lbs. Wow, didn’t realize those batteries weighed even that much

 I don’t know if this comment is a joke or not.

 @Dogl0rd: Nah, its better if they just start banning all the people complaining about ebikes on here. Those people don't have anything good to contribute about regular bikes either.

 @phops: idk, all the truly butthurt whiners here appear to be the moped riders

 Not sure why I'm being downvoted for stating a fact of riding in my area

 @Dogl0rd:

Because ebikes going on trails does not affect your trail riding one bit. And the part about maintaining credibility is a thing you make up in your head to justify your opinion.

Im willing to be that 99% of those ebikers ride responsibly as well.

 @thegoodflow:

lol no. "moped" riders don't pay attention to the insecure pinkbike commentors.

 @phops:
Mopedalers don't give a f*ck.

Apparently the insecure e-bikers do though, judging by how defensive you guys get about it.

 Toyota DH Racing team incomming running a hybrid hydrogen engine

 Don't be daft. By then bikes either run on solar, wind, waterpower or biomass. Biomass is the worst as iyou can really see where those bikes have been. You can have a lush green forest, they roll by and it is all gone. "Lazy bastards" you'd be willing to yell but that doesn't quite help.

 Yup, I'll sigh that Absolute fxxcking nonsense.

 We dont

 What?