Taken at face value, Interbike is an opportunity for retailers and the media to see and touch next season's bicycles and products for the first time, before they appear on shelves and showrooms around the world. Interbike is also neutral soil for the industry to meet and discuss sensitive issues that are affecting us now, or may do so in the future. It could be argued that Interbike is all of those things and more, but the elephant in the expo is that the show may be positioned too late in the year to be relevant. And, there is a back-story that suggests that many of the folks who are tasked with showing attendees their latest and greatest goods - are actually lying through their teeth. But, it's all good, I think. SRAM's Red eTap wireless road group was the most talked about product at Interbike - as was the yet-to-be-released eTap mountain bike drivetrain that SRAM was not talking about. Considering that SRAM need only to electrify the rear changer of the XX1 drivetrain, it is not a stretch to assume that it is ready to rock at this very moment."Lying through their teeth" might be a stretch, but consider that, by September 2015, bike makers and parts suppliers are well on their way to finalizing the products that they will be selling for 2017. The engineers, product managers, and marketing staff who are pretending to be excited about the 2016 products they are showing at Interbike have probably forgotten most of the bullet points about the stuff you are looking at because they have been hard at work on future projects. From the media's point of view, most of us had already seen, ridden, and reported upon the show's most relevant products, so we are left with the job of pretending to be excited about whispers of up-coming products that bike brands can't say anything about.
DT Swiss' star ratchet freehub has proven to be one of the simplest (it can be disassembled without tools) and strongest types, but the market's rush for finer engagement intervals may prove to be its downfall. The radial tooth profile of the ratchet discs requires a certain width and height to be durable and reliable. Big brands race to scoop up their money early, so by the time the bike biz convenes in las Vegas, retailers (at least the ones who are deemed important to the larger brands), have already been invited to view and to pre-purchase their following season's lineups, so the only reason for most shops to ply the aisles is to have a look at some of the smaller brands' wares and to cherry pick miscellaneous items to fill the scant floor and shelf-space which is not occupied by we-make-everything brands like Trek, Specialized and Giant.
The same can be said about some of the meetings scheduled there. I spoke with an IMBA representative headed towards an industry e-bike seminar who confided that IMBA was divided over the subject of giving electric mountain bikes the same status as human-powered ones. It seems moot to even have that discussion if the larger bike brands in North America have already created an e-bike counsel that, reportedly, has already been lobbying Washington for back-country access for over a year. In California, there is already a law (AB 1096) in review to allow electric bikes on trails. The only discussion points for IMBA at that meeting would be: "Are you with us, or are you against us?" I can only hope that IMBA gave them the boot. BTW, if you live in California, contact Governor Jerry Brown and ask him to reject Assembly Bill 1096.
Dirt Demo may underscore the most salient reason for Interbike to exist at all. There is no substitute for seeing, touching, tasting and riding the products that a dealer may be purchasing, or a salesperson may be selling next year - and it gives a lot of people, including designers and marketing folks, a chance to evaluate their competition. Looking back, the mood inside the halls of Interbike proper were subdued by comparison to the mayhem that took place at Dirt Demo, as shop rats and media hacks elbowed each other to ride millions of dollars of equipment that would only be available for two short days. Two thousand dollar wheels? Sure, thrash them all you want. Ten thousand dollar road bike? Ride it to Hoover dam and then see how it rolls on the gravel roads on the way back. Team replica 19-pound carbon XC bike? No worries, shuttle it to the top of the mountain and take the DH trails down. While you are at it, gulp down energy drinks and taste some pre and post-ride energy foods. It's all there, and it is free.
Perhaps my heart and soul have been encased with leather after walking a thousand miles at bicycle expos over the years, but there is always that first timer who reminds me how wondrous Interbike can be (and probably still is). On my first day of Interbike, I took a seat on the shuttle bus to Dirt Demo as the golden rays of the sun were still angling across the cool desert. "TK," the Japanese man who sat beside, me said that this was his first ever trip to Interbike. He was an engineer at Shimano on the Di2 XTR team. He asked me how many times I have been to the show?
I thought for a moment; "Every year since 1980."
TK laughed out loud; "I was born in 1987!"
He asked how far the trails were and I pointed at the horizon about 30 miles away. He explained that he was a downhiller and mentioned that he wanted to try a number of DH bikes, beginning with the Intense M16. The Intense tent is the first one at Dirt Demo, so I walked with TK, introduced him to my friends there, and we arranged for him to get the last medium-sized M16 they had available. I am pretty sure that TK was stoked. And, I am pretty sure that every man and woman who rode bikes at Dirt Demo was too.
Plus bikes were a huge draw at Dirt Demo, with most bike makers reporting that as soon as one came back, they would send it out with another rider. Last season most plus bikes were hardtails, which have the impression that the genre was going to be labeled, "fatbike lite," but there were enough dual-suspension versions on display at Dirt Demo 2015 to indicate that plus sized wheels were headed towards the mainstream trailbike market. Scott and Specialized reported that attendees waited in lines for their plus-sized trailbikes, which were the most popular models for both brands.
This year, almost every tire brand had a range of plus tires in three-inch and 2.8-inch widths, and after polling a number of riders and industry leaders who had first-hand experience riding plus-sized mountain bikes, it is clear that tire makers have the power to make or break the category while it is still in its infancy. Long-time Shimano Skunk Works test rider Paul Thomasberg was hanging out with Shimano MTB Product Manager Matt Robertson. Both stated in different words that plus seemed best suited for the sport's newbies at the present time, because the wider tires make it far easier and more enjoyable to ride off road at moderate speeds. Robertson seemed to have little interest for plus as a replacement for his long-travel trailbike, but Thomasberg had a different take. His main concern was keeping air in the tires:
"You have to set the tire pressure low enough so that the bike rolls at speed and doesn't bounce," says Paul. "And when you get that right, there is so much traction available that it seems you can do anything - but then you flat all the time. So, I have to pump up the tires more to stop flatting, and then the bike bounces all over the place whenever I am going fast. Until they get the tires right, plus isn't going anywhere. Look around. All these guys are pumping up their plus bike tires way to hard, just to keep them from flatting out there, and people are still coming in with flat tires."
Thomasberg was on the money with his assessment of the emerging plus bike. Success is completely in the hands of tire makers, and while the present crop of plus tires have provided enough reliability, traction and rolling performance to launch the category, the short history of fat bikes has proved without question that in order to make oversized tires that are lightweight and durable enough to fit into the performance trailbike arena, we are going to need to re-evaluate the entire process of how a mountain bike tire is designed and manufactured. The accepted process of simply adding more rubber to a tire to armor it against sidewall cuts and pinch flats is a dead end. Conventional large volume enduro/all-mountain tires in the 2.35-inch range already weigh over 1000 grams. Scale those designs up to a three-inch casing and the weight figure goes through the roof.
The direction plus tire makers need to explore is to eliminate as much excess rubber (the heaviest component of a wheel) as possible, using it only for the tread. That means the casing fabric will have to be constructed of a far more durable blend of fabrics - one that is impervious to tearing and abrasion. Tubeless is the only option for plus tires, so to prevent the casings from pinch-flatting, the rim flange and the tire's bead area must be designed to cushion impacts and to spread those forces, in order to protect the casing from shearing. In theory, a second-gen plus tire would look more like a huge road racing skinwall with an aggressive tread. Only time will tell. Plus has the potential to revolutionize the middle ground between XC racing and long-travel enduro bikes, but it won't progress without a creative collaboration between rim and tire makers.
Tantrum MeltdownInnovation is most often touted by larger brands, but is most often discovered in the displays of smaller, sometimes unknown vendors at trade shows. Brian Berthold was walking the show hoping to connect with interested retailers there. Berthold hails from Indianapolis, where he designs suspension products and bicycles. His latest endeavor is
Tantrum Cycles and his first design, the Meltdown, showcases his automatic dual-travel rear-suspension design that switches seamlessly from a plush, 160-millimeters to a firm, 100-millimeters of rear-wheel travel when the pedals are engaged - without electronics or a remote lever. The forward swingarm pivot engages a vertical link that alters the shock's leverage rate whenever the rear wheel contacts a bump. When pedaling, chain-tension snaps the vertical link back in place.
Tobias HildOne innovator who has had a major effect upon the bicycle industry is Tobias Hild. Based in Munich, Germany, Toby blew the doors off contemporary saddle designs with his groundbreaking research on pelvic and sit-bone widths that led him to found
SQlab. Regardless of what you may have been told, Toby is the guy who established that saddles should be sold in graduating widths which correspond with each cyclist's sit-bone width, and with the angle of his or her riding position.
Toby also pioneered the sit-down saddle-width gauges that are now standard-issue from top accessory brands. Toby maintains that both sexes have the same variables in sit-bone widths and, while the concept may be controversial, that there is no physical need for separate female or male-specific saddle designs. SQlab was founded to make cycling more comfortable and has evolved into a complete range of grips, gloves, saddles and handlebars for both road and mountain disciplines.
With many all-mountain and enduro-style riders opting for cargo-carrying bad-boy bibs to stash water and food, there may be rides where carrying a bit more water would be a good idea. Hydrapack had a full range of foldable bottles (some with nozzles and some without) that would take up very little space in your power panties after their contents were emptied. Their screw-on caps sync with Nalgene's bottles and a number of filtration systems.Interbike is home to a busload of products that most riders would never have a need for in their entire lives, but folks exist out there who would wear them out. And, the halls are chock full of not-so-exciting necessities I'd never photograph, yet their importance nets them the time and expense to make improvements each year. Sometimes though, the development curve goes backwards. High powered lighting systems were once the wondrous keys that unlocked the trails each evening for working class riders, but the advent of inexpensive LED lamps and readily available lithium ion batteries flipped the business up-side down. Everyone has a zillion lumen lighting unit now. There were so many on display that walking the show could give you a sunburn.
Old becomes new. Back when the sport began, the pioneers who cobbled together the first mountain bikes came from two camps: the folks who modified balloon tire paperboy bikes and the riders who came from road racing who modified lighter weight, smaller tire bikes like British three speeds to accomplish the same end. I fell somewhere in the middle. I remember riding my road racing bike over the local mountains on dirt roads, wishing for wider tires, straight handlebars and better brakes. When I heard of the exploits of those pioneers in Marin, I made my first mountain bike. Essentially, I was a pioneer Gravel Grinder who converted to mountain bikes.
Now, a new wave of roadies who call themselves "Gravel Grinders" are evolving along a similar evolutionary path. Tires are becoming wider, disc brakes are appearing, and the first vestiges of suspension are popping up - soft-tail elastomer cushions in the seat stays and flex-stems and seatposts in the cockpit - exactly the same path that early mountain bikers took in an effort to avoid adopting "real" suspension. Since 29-inch wheels and 700c wheels are essentially the same, we can expect gravel grinders to evolve into 29er XC bikes in short order. I wonder if suspension will emerge before flat handlebars? New becomes old.
By far, the most enjoyable reason to attend Interbike each year is to reconnect with friends, competitors and co-workers, or just plain people watch. Mountain biking is as much a community of riders as it is a sport, which is a beautiful thing. The Mountain Bike Hall of Fame inducted bike and suspension designer Horst Leitner, German publisher and race-festival pioneer Uli Stanciu, BC freeride legends Todd “Digger” Fiander and "Dangerous" Dan Cowen, and Australian film-maker Glen Jacobs. Those lucky enough to get a seat at the Inspire Theater to preview Ryan Cleek's film, "Reach for the Sky," were treated to a raucous freerider's reunion in addition to a must-see story about the tumultuous rise of Cameron Zink, and Cleek's raw and revealing look at the underbelly of professional big-mountain freeriding. I will end my report on Interbike 2015 with a tribute to the human side of our sport. Cheers, until next year.
- RC | Who would believe that the guys on your new Intense Development Team would do so well at National and World Cup races in their first Season? - RC |
| I believed. - Shaun Palmer |
Two racers who have become teachers. Claire Buchar and Chris Kovarik have earned respect on both sides of the race track.
Lots of photos
I was riding a very rocky trail in Fruita yesterday (Mary's loop/Horsetheif/Kokopelli) and noticed something really cool. There were a lot of older and newbie riders on plus and fat bike rentals. I struck up a conversation with one of them while I was helping her fix a dropped chain. She made the comment on how incredibly easy it is to ride (Salsa Bucksaw) and was clearly having a blast.
If that's what these new bikes mean to our sport we should be celebrating. More riders mean more advocacy and hopefully fewer fat people.
@skeen9 Who cares? I'd prefer a courteous and humble newbie to a douchy and rude "enduro-bro" strava-a*shole any day.
If you Really believe that fat or plus size bikes are going to make riding so easy that you are suddenly going to start seeing true beginners on your techy trails, then either your trails are not actually very technical, or you are very misled. A beginner rider would look at a technical trail, and say there is no possible way they would attempt to ride any sort of bike on that terrain. A wider tire is not going to magically imbue a beginner with fitness and balance and technique, and the confidence to point their bike down something that they might not even want to hike and completely frightens them.
Fat bikes and plus bike do a LOT of things very well, and they can be ridden very hard as a trail bike. I would argue the whole "good for beginners" concept is being pushed out of context because they make it a little less frustrating for a beginner who is going to struggle with certain things when they start out, but they are in no way a cure all. You still have to pedal the crap out of them. You still have to pick good lines. You still have to know how to corner well. And cornering really well on a fatbike is not an entirely intuitive thing. Just like cornering well on a knobby 2.3" tire is not intuitive thing, but something that must be learned through practice.
I have a fatbike and absolutely love it to death, but make everything easier!?!?! It does not.
Make loose terrain a lot less frustrating, and make sand and snow rideable? It does
You can put any bike under a beginner, and they are still a beginner. And you can put any bike under a pro, and they are still a pro. The tool should match the task. Stop believing what a product or marketing manager tells you to think about something, and use your own brain and experience to decide for yourself, For Yourself.
Bikes are RAD. So long as you pedal them with your own damn power and not a F'ing battery.
These new generation of plus/fat bikes simplify the terrain and allow the rider to focus more on fitness. There is always room for progression so why not make it less frustrating to start the sport?
I am not sure if it is the tires (I'm sure they help) or if its the new Fox 34/ Float DPS combo, but this is a true "point and shoot" bike. Does that make it easier for the new people? Sure, but I really don't agree that these bikes are aimed at them. These bikes are stinkin fast: they corner well, they climb well, and they bomb downhill well. A new guy can benefit from these, yes, but the experienced guys are the ones who are going to benefit the most with this type of bike.
I think the true test of reliability and increased performance will be whether we see racers, either DH or Enduro running plus bikes.
I'm sure that if the terrain was loose and sketchy enough they would be faster. Believe me I was ready to hate them but they feel like a normal trail bike on crack rather than a fat bike. The Specialized 6fattie is the bike I rode. Even with the crap tires I want one! Made my pimped out, 1 degree slacker than stock E29 with Maxxis 2.5" DHF's feel like a cyclocross bike
I own a 27b+.5 (I mean, seriously, wtf are we calling these things?), but this vid totally hits the nail on the head.
p.s. E-bikes...rode one and had fun, but they don't belong on trails with actual bikes. but i'm pretending the industry listens their customers...
1.No you do not need more engagement points than DT race ratchet to ride your bike, but you can masturbate your engineering talent away by trying to get nano-degree engagement.
2.Super cool about the women, Long Liv Giant!
3.Electric mountain bikes are NOT the source of evil, they are awesome, and I take 100 E-bikers on my home trail over 3 Joeys on DH-bikes in the park. Brake bumps and unnecessary injuries are made by morons standing in the middle of a downhill track.
4.Plus size is the source of evil and sink for the most naive expectations
5.Certain pro riders I spoke to were unsure about rims wider than 25mm internal doing much good, at least with current tyre designs. One of them said that square tread patter profile is excellent only for those who don't lean their bikes much...
6.Guy from Tantrum is the Spirit of Enduro
7.Palmer has to cut his sugar and bacon intake or Intense team nutritionist will have a hard time explaining their racers that although it is counter-intuitive, higher mass does NOT go down faster, especially in case of human body, where higher mass means also more air resistance... Introduce them to some Euro Frenchie diet...
If you can't see that an e-bike is a motorized vehicle, then you need your brain fixed. It even says XXX watt MOTOR right in the damn description. How is that not a motor bike? It's a motor + a bike. What more do you want? Where are you pulling this mystical semantic difference? Is it because the motor on an ebike is electric rather than an internal combusion engine? Have you ever tried to drag race a Tesla?
I've ridden a few of them mate. They're a lot of fun. So are motos. But I'm not operating under any sort of delusion that they're anything less than a motorized vehicle.
"I assure you that it decreases trail erosion compared to XC bike with semi-slicks."
You've gone utterly bonkers, totally off the reservation, and completely out to lunch if you think this could possibly be true. There is no universe in which this makes logical sense. More power = more erosion. More distance covered = more erosion. More speed = more erosion.
I ain't the one "chasing the ghost" here matey, it's before lunch and I'm stone cold sober. What are you on?
I think you are missing the whole point of the opposed-to-ebikes-party. At least the point RC is making here, and many others are trying to do so as well.
It's not even so much about what we think of them as cyclists and what their actual capabilities are, as it is about what we think of them as a society and categorize them with in regards to land access. For whatever asinine reason, in the US, there is already an overly aggressive stance trying to lump Mtn bikes in with dirtbikes, and introducing e-mtn bikes into the equation would be all it would take to close the gap between the two, and for some areas to be shut down, and tickets being handed out, overnight. Right or wrong? Definitely Wrong. But it is the way it is. There are designated land areas that allow the use of motorized vehicles and thats where, IMO, these should stay. And I am not talking about a MX track or a hard enduro course. I'm talking about wilderness areas that have trails just like the ones you and I ride, but are on land that has been designated for multi-use.
The future is coming: lighter/cheaper/more powerful batteries and motors, regenerative braking, and it can't be that hard to modify your way around government regulations. E-bike or Moto? the hiker doesn't care. www.stealthelectricbikes.com
You are thinking so logically that it has become unrealistic. I am really not concerned about an influx of e-bikes. I am not concerned about potential effects for erosion from e-bikes either. I completely wholeheartedly agree they will not begin to take off in popularity to the point where they are a regular sight. They are expensive as all get out, and they are still a pedal bike with a wimpy electric motor. I completely agree that One dude skidding around corners and down every descent on any kind of bike is going to have more impact in an hour than a full year of one dude appropriately riding a mtb, whether it is electric or not. Does this brake dragging and ultra accelerated erosion happen ALL the time in reality? No of course not.
In the beginning, we were lumped in with dirtbikes because this Mtn Dew skid your way through pristine wilderness was the image associated with mtn bikes. Just the image of this was enough to associate us with destructive land uses such as dirtbikes, and apply and Enforce a widespread ban. They didn't look at the Actual effects on the land. They looked at the common perception at the time.
All of the lobbying that was and is Still CURRENTLY being done to try and separate us from being categorized in with dirtbikes and motorized sports would take an enormous step backwards if there is yet one more perceivable link tying us to dirtbikes. They are not looking at facts. They are looking at perception. Their own largely uninformed and misguided perception.
If they were looking at facts, and had all the time to consider such things, they would differentiate between a 125cc dirtbike and a quad, and a Jeep Wrangler and a diesel dually 4x4 pickup in regards to land access. But they don't. Its an umbrella. And I do Not want to be under the same umbrella. Just like I'm sure the dirtbikers don't want to be stuck under the same umbrella with a 4x4 truck. But unfortunately, in many areas they are.
E bikes = devils tool to mans ultimate destruction.
can't you see the s ighns? Its all over them socks!
No, no no no. They look like bicycles, and companies are sure as s&*t marketing them as "bicycles" because its to their advantage to do so, but by definition a bicycle is solely a human powered vehicle. An e-bike has a motor and a battery that provides power for propulsion. It doesn't matter if it's 1 W, or 10,000, if it's pedal-assist or a simple throttle. if it's using a motor to move, it's a motor vehicle.
I know it will not be all that effective at creating an effective border from people actually riding them on mtb trails. I am not concerned about that. I want to agree with everything you are saying. I want to Believe everything you are saying, that they will have no impact, and there will be so few, that the effects of them will never be felt in any way shape or form. If there were a few e-mtb's whirring around my local trails, I really could care less personally because I know what they are, and what they are Not. It just comes down to legislation. It's so sensitive in many areas that even the littlest ripples can make big waves. I know it sounds unrealistic, but its the unfortunate reality. There have been so many areas that have been shut down and Very strictly enforced because of very minor and isolated events. Areas that were legal for Mtb use, but a jump gets built and they shut down the whole thing for years. Cops waiting, handing out tickets. Not exaggerating. A person on a bike ran into a GIANT YELLOW gate and sewed the town, and it almost permanently shut the whole area down for bike use. One douche face has a negative interaction with the wrong hiker in a legal and popular mtb area, and it can shut the place down. People get word that Biking is ok in an area and decide to go and make some new trails, and it can change the entire relationship and result in all the trails within that system being closed.
Yes, we are mtb'ers. We will find a way and a place to ride, even and especially in banned ares. But this is a very fine line with regard to e-bikes.
You've got to remember there are a hell of a ton of people lobbying to get land opened for dirtbikes, and a hell of a ton of people lobbying to get land shut down for mtb use, and there is a very good chance they both outnumber us and have more resources behind them. If I were one of them, and I found out that areas that were legal for bikes were also legal for some new fangled e-mountain bikes!? That would be one hell of an angle for me to leverage to an uninformed politician. Hey, we have electric dirtbikes too! They have motorized bikes, and we have motorized bikes! Give us access dammit! And the politician will say, wait, what? The Bicycles now have motors in them!? BAN. Sound stupid? It does to me too.
Make me a believer WAKI!! I Want to BELIEVE!
Not much of a website yet, it will be built daily (weekly?)
It's seems like some one have copied a text talking about Konas Magiclink.
What I can see it's that the "plushness" should change greatly, depending on chaintension and rearward impacts affecting how soft/stiff the suspension is at any point.
If it could be morphed with Canyons Shapershift geometry changing link, I think it would be my Holy Grail. A Magic Link that would do all that I when When I want it!!!
Sooo, you are correct, simsburner, I think RC (you know I love you) was having a flashback to being the first guy ever to test the Magic Link Coilair in the bad old days. We almost got eaten by a mountain lion and finished the ride down mt Wilson in complete dark with no light.
But his description was more accurate for that bike. Pedaling would lockout the little Aux shock and the rear suspension would be limited to the main air shock at about 2/3 the max travel. When you hit a bump or stopped pedaling, the aux shock would be active for 100% travel.
That's where the Tantrum is much better. Not only can the Tantrum COMPLETELY lockout the rear suspension under extreme efforts (think granny gear paved climb), but the sag will gradually be reduced as the angle of incline increases. If it is truly a max effort climb, the sag will be reduced to ZERO and the shock will feel welded shut. Hardtail. You will have the steepest climbing geometry and completely rigid rear end. Until you hit the bump. At that point, the link will rotate the other way, assisting compression of the suspension, allowing it to respond instantly with a softer spring force than normally would be possible.
So you nailed it, simsburner, the plushness is continually varying. For now, let's call the plushness, the wheel rate. The spring rate determines how many pounds it takes to compress the spring an inch. Similarly, the wheel rate is how many pounds it takes to compress the wheel an inch. Normally, the wheel rate at any point in it's travel is determined by the spring rate, the leverage ratio, and other modifiers like anti squat, and braking forces.
With the Tantrum, the wheel rate is also modified by the Missing Link, as it tries to rotate in either direction, depending on how hard you are pedaling versus how hard the bumps and braking forces are. Thus, the wheel rate can be much stiffer or softer compared to ANY other non computerized shock. And it does it at the right times. For those of you worried about how a high pivot bike (old Super V or Super extends and retracts under pedaling, forget it. The link feeds into the shock in a very damped way, you don't even feel it extending when you're climbing. It just does.
And the geometry change is much greater as well. Why? No bike can have it's shock at full extension during a climb. We can run a slacker head angle statically and it will be steeper while climbing due to max shock extension. This is very noticeable in terms of riding position and keeping the front down/not wandering.
The website isn't much yet, but there's some more detailed explanation here; www.tantrumcycles.com
And feel free to ask away here. I'm really excited about bringing this to market.
BB
Fortunately, consumers have the most impact and the last word. If you truly don't want e-mtn bikes, then boycott any brand that sells them, even if it's your favorite. If a brand owns a spinoff company making e-mtn bikes, then boycott that brand and let them know. WE can't rely on brands to be responsible and think about the welfare of the sport, trails and the sport's image. They are in business to make money, which is fine, but they need to be kept in check and the only thing they will pay attention to is what hurts or helps their sales.
I do agree on the refillable air cartridges though.
I have been riding 3.8" tires in Western PA rock gardens (aka trails) for the whole season, and have not have a flat (until later today, I realize as I am writing this) once I got some rim tape that sealed up my rim properly.
There is also an issue with people trying to keep these tires light - skipping the sidewall protection. Fat/plus tires just aren't gonna be light. Shame about the flats, but I don't think it is as simple as tire pressure. It could also be that the molds/processes for these tires (besides Surly's fat tires) are brand new, and there are still kinks to work out for everyone else.
With Kona Magic Link, the axle path has two degrees of freedom (2dof), and therefore the axle can move within a 'window' of travel. It needs (and has) two independent springs/dampers to control this.
Tantrum Meltdown is a 6-bar linkage. The axle path has one degree of freedom (1dof), and can only move along a single pre-determined axle path. It only needs (and only has) one spring/damper.
Claims of it working like a 2dof system are false.
fla3h, if you ever saw a frame on a CEN test machine, you'd be simultaneously impressed and scared. the tests are run inside a "blast box", in case the thing flies apart. Usually, you turn the machine on at night and let go until the frame is destroyed or the max number of cycles are reached. I get great pleasure out of coming in in the morning and seeing the machine had given up and shut itself off, the frame undamaged.
the Tantrum is actually a 5 bar, as far as the axle path, with a DIFFERENT 5 bar running the shock, but the missing link and rocker are common to both 5 bar linkages and interconnected.
I don't think RC or anyone else was claiming a 2d of freedom for the rear axle path, so I don't think anyone is trying to present a falsehood.
The final production version is in process, with a few more refinements. The frame you see weighs 3.54 kg (7lb 13oz) with shock, which is already almost half a pound lighter than the magic link bikes. Further sculpting on the production frame has dropped another 1/4 pound.
While Tantrum Cycles is new, my design experience is not. I was responsible for designing every tube, every forging, every part of the magic link bikes. In addition to 20 years designing cars and parts in F1, Indycars, GTP, GTO, TransAm and Motocross. I didn't do this just to come out with another, me too, bike. The bottom line is that you can pretty much buy a bike from any brand and get a damn fun ride.
But this thing is special. It rides special. It can do things that no other bike design can do. Good things. Fun things. It feels fast and it is fast. And plush. And climby. And I want people to enjoy my work.
cheers
www.tantrumcycles.com
The other way around would make more sense to ad more climbing traction and sideways suspension on rocks and roots..
E
Nothing alleged about it. Its being well publicised on other publications. You'd think after this past summer's #pinkgate incident that the editors sent to interbike would have paid more attention to the problems of sexism in the bike industry and done a better job of reporting on #sockgate but I guess some things will never change here. There's far too many overgrown children in the bike industry who still covet toilet humour.
E
There are people in this world who REALLY don't like mountain bikes and are actively trying to keep them off as many trails as possible. To protect human powered riding as the current established form of riding that has existed for much longer than e-bikes and serves a far greater number of users, we need a clear line drawn that e-bikes are in fact motorized bicycles that need separate classification. Many trail networks have extremely delicate access issues that have been fought hard for. They are routinely checked for signs of off-trail riding and modifications of trail features (ie building jumps). If reports of motorized bicycles show up I guarantee it will get trails closed, at least here in the PNW. The anti-mtb groups are looking to simplify the distinctions between user groups to eliminate trail access to all bike riders, e-bike or human powered. E-bikes are a stepping stone in the mind of anti-mtb advocates, and if they can convince politicians/land managers that e-bikes are mountain bikes, then its that much easier to lose all bike access. *I'm not saying e-bikes aren't a great thing for people who otherwise couldn't ride a mountain bike (as you stated the Martyn Ashton video is proof positive). All I'm saying is that we need to be careful with how they are classified and where they're allowed to tread. Dedicated bike parks and trail centers? No problem. Multi use trails for moto and mtb? Absolutely. There are plenty of places where e-bikes would fit fine. But there are tons of great trails near where I live that are multi-use hiker/equestrian/mtb that e-bikes just wouldn't work on. Not only would you not have e-bike access as it currently sits, but you run the risk of losing all mtb access period. As you said, we need to look at the bigger picture.
1. This is a boys club - the bags have things in them that men will enjoy. Women aren't part of our decision making process.
2. Your bodies and the representation/clothing of them is something that men get to decide.
Before you go on and on about how stupid the criticism is, please take a moment to listen to the voices of women - since I am guessing you aren't one and they are important to our sport and world:
surlybikes.com/blog/post/our_own_two_wheels
dirtragmag.com/interbike-sockgate-and-women-in-cycling
blog.amandabatty.com/2015/09/if-you-don-like-it-leave.html