Bike Show Walkabout With RC - Interbike 2015

Sep 21, 2015
by Richard Cunningham  
Interbike 2015

Taken at face value, Interbike is an opportunity for retailers and the media to see and touch next season's bicycles and products for the first time, before they appear on shelves and showrooms around the world. Interbike is also neutral soil for the industry to meet and discuss sensitive issues that are affecting us now, or may do so in the future. It could be argued that Interbike is all of those things and more, but the elephant in the expo is that the show may be positioned too late in the year to be relevant. And, there is a back-story that suggests that many of the folks who are tasked with showing attendees their latest and greatest goods - are actually lying through their teeth. But, it's all good, I think.

Eurobike 2015
Manuel Fumic 2015 World Champs
SRAM's Red eTap wireless road group was the most talked about product at Interbike - as was the yet-to-be-released eTap mountain bike drivetrain that SRAM was not talking about. Considering that SRAM need only to electrify the rear changer of the XX1 drivetrain, it is not a stretch to assume that it is ready to rock at this very moment.

"Lying through their teeth" might be a stretch, but consider that, by September 2015, bike makers and parts suppliers are well on their way to finalizing the products that they will be selling for 2017. The engineers, product managers, and marketing staff who are pretending to be excited about the 2016 products they are showing at Interbike have probably forgotten most of the bullet points about the stuff you are looking at because they have been hard at work on future projects. From the media's point of view, most of us had already seen, ridden, and reported upon the show's most relevant products, so we are left with the job of pretending to be excited about whispers of up-coming products that bike brands can't say anything about.

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Conservative, well-respected manufacturers like DT Swiss are often indicators of trends that have become mainstream because they rarely, if ever, take risks simply to attract marketing attention. Their 40-millimeter-wide XM 551 and 30-millimeter-wide 481 rim profiles represent the two most accepted standards to emerge from the wider-is-better movement.

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DT Swiss' star ratchet freehub has proven to be one of the simplest (it can be disassembled without tools) and strongest types, but the market's rush for finer engagement intervals may prove to be its downfall. The radial tooth profile of the ratchet discs requires a certain width and height to be durable and reliable.

Big brands race to scoop up their money early, so by the time the bike biz convenes in las Vegas, retailers (at least the ones who are deemed important to the larger brands), have already been invited to view and to pre-purchase their following season's lineups, so the only reason for most shops to ply the aisles is to have a look at some of the smaller brands' wares and to cherry pick miscellaneous items to fill the scant floor and shelf-space which is not occupied by we-make-everything brands like Trek, Specialized and Giant.

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Revelate Designs makes heavily insulated handlebar pogies for near-zero weather conditions.
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Another view of their insulated pogies. Smaller, less bulky versions are also available.
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Thin-profile insulated hydration pack that fits under your jacket, so its contents won't freeze.

The same can be said about some of the meetings scheduled there. I spoke with an IMBA representative headed towards an industry e-bike seminar who confided that IMBA was divided over the subject of giving electric mountain bikes the same status as human-powered ones. It seems moot to even have that discussion if the larger bike brands in North America have already created an e-bike counsel that, reportedly, has already been lobbying Washington for back-country access for over a year. In California, there is already a law (AB 1096) in review to allow electric bikes on trails. The only discussion points for IMBA at that meeting would be: "Are you with us, or are you against us?" I can only hope that IMBA gave them the boot. BTW, if you live in California, contact Governor Jerry Brown and ask him to reject Assembly Bill 1096.

Liv Giant s fleet at Dirt Demo was gone... every day... perhaps the greatess success story for female-specific products at Interbike.
Allegedly (my goodie bag did not possess them), a vendor slipped socks with sexy female forms into Interbike swag bags intended for Dirt Demo attendees and sparked an anti-sexist campaign against the promoter that smoldered for the duration of the show. Paradoxically, 2015 was a banner year for female cyclists which should have been cause for celebration at the Expo. The reinstatement of women's racing at European and North American classic road races, and equal purses at major MTB venues were two massive victories worth noting. My favorite, though, was Liv Giant's wildly successful year as a dedicated female-specific brand. Their demo tent was raging for both days at Bootleg Canyon. Evidently, Liv proved that a 100-percent commitment would illicit a similar response.

Dirt Demo may underscore the most salient reason for Interbike to exist at all. There is no substitute for seeing, touching, tasting and riding the products that a dealer may be purchasing, or a salesperson may be selling next year - and it gives a lot of people, including designers and marketing folks, a chance to evaluate their competition. Looking back, the mood inside the halls of Interbike proper were subdued by comparison to the mayhem that took place at Dirt Demo, as shop rats and media hacks elbowed each other to ride millions of dollars of equipment that would only be available for two short days. Two thousand dollar wheels? Sure, thrash them all you want. Ten thousand dollar road bike? Ride it to Hoover dam and then see how it rolls on the gravel roads on the way back. Team replica 19-pound carbon XC bike? No worries, shuttle it to the top of the mountain and take the DH trails down. While you are at it, gulp down energy drinks and taste some pre and post-ride energy foods. It's all there, and it is free.

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A close look at FSA's narrow-wide chainring reveals a taller, asymmetrical tooth profile, which reportedly engages the chain smoothly and further reduces the chance of a chain drop. FSA finally has cranksets with smaller-diameter bolt circles, designed to accept chainrings down to 26 teeth. That's a great first step. The second step (for all crank makers) is to develop a chainring that can be exchanged quickly for another size without removing the left crank arm.

FSA Grid chain guide Interbike 2015
Occasionally, a fresh idea appears. PB is presently testing FSA's Grid chainguide, which features quick-release pins that allow the rider to remove or replace the chain without tools. Any gravity or enduro rider who has stared blankly by the side of the trail at a chain that is wadded into knots around the crank and guide will understand the beauty of that feature.

FSA Grid chain guide Interbike 2015
Flip the ring outwards and pull the indexed pin out...
FSA Grid chain guide Interbike 2015
...And the guide swings free. The bottom roller guide is similar.

Perhaps my heart and soul have been encased with leather after walking a thousand miles at bicycle expos over the years, but there is always that first timer who reminds me how wondrous Interbike can be (and probably still is). On my first day of Interbike, I took a seat on the shuttle bus to Dirt Demo as the golden rays of the sun were still angling across the cool desert. "TK," the Japanese man who sat beside, me said that this was his first ever trip to Interbike. He was an engineer at Shimano on the Di2 XTR team. He asked me how many times I have been to the show?

I thought for a moment; "Every year since 1980."

TK laughed out loud; "I was born in 1987!"

He asked how far the trails were and I pointed at the horizon about 30 miles away. He explained that he was a downhiller and mentioned that he wanted to try a number of DH bikes, beginning with the Intense M16. The Intense tent is the first one at Dirt Demo, so I walked with TK, introduced him to my friends there, and we arranged for him to get the last medium-sized M16 they had available. I am pretty sure that TK was stoked. And, I am pretty sure that every man and woman who rode bikes at Dirt Demo was too.

Happy rider returns his Scott Genius Plus Interbike 2015
Greg Carter from Bike Insiders of Seattle grudgingly returns his Scott Genius Plus to the paddock: "This bike is Money! It feels like my Honda CR 250. There is so much traction that I was coming up on other riders who were wiggling all over the place on the downhills and just riding around them." Scott's demo team said that its plus bikes were, by far, their most wanted models at Dirt Demo.

Plus bikes were a huge draw at Dirt Demo, with most bike makers reporting that as soon as one came back, they would send it out with another rider. Last season most plus bikes were hardtails, which have the impression that the genre was going to be labeled, "fatbike lite," but there were enough dual-suspension versions on display at Dirt Demo 2015 to indicate that plus sized wheels were headed towards the mainstream trailbike market. Scott and Specialized reported that attendees waited in lines for their plus-sized trailbikes, which were the most popular models for both brands.

Maxxis Plus tires at Interbiike 2015
All of the major tire players are behind plus now. Maxxis, is in the plus game with at least two tire options. The Rekon and Ikon are both 2.8 inches wide, which seems to be the preferred size for performance minded riders.

This year, almost every tire brand had a range of plus tires in three-inch and 2.8-inch widths, and after polling a number of riders and industry leaders who had first-hand experience riding plus-sized mountain bikes, it is clear that tire makers have the power to make or break the category while it is still in its infancy. Long-time Shimano Skunk Works test rider Paul Thomasberg was hanging out with Shimano MTB Product Manager Matt Robertson. Both stated in different words that plus seemed best suited for the sport's newbies at the present time, because the wider tires make it far easier and more enjoyable to ride off road at moderate speeds. Robertson seemed to have little interest for plus as a replacement for his long-travel trailbike, but Thomasberg had a different take. His main concern was keeping air in the tires:

"You have to set the tire pressure low enough so that the bike rolls at speed and doesn't bounce," says Paul. "And when you get that right, there is so much traction available that it seems you can do anything - but then you flat all the time. So, I have to pump up the tires more to stop flatting, and then the bike bounces all over the place whenever I am going fast. Until they get the tires right, plus isn't going anywhere. Look around. All these guys are pumping up their plus bike tires way to hard, just to keep them from flatting out there, and people are still coming in with flat tires."

Paul Thomasberg L and Matt Robertson R Interbike 2015
Shimano's Paul Thomasberg (left) is one of the sport's better riders and sharper minds. Matt Robertson is also a shredder on a bike, and Shimano's mountain bike product manager. Both men can keep a secret to their graves - which seems to be a requirement for all Shimano employees.

Thomasberg was on the money with his assessment of the emerging plus bike. Success is completely in the hands of tire makers, and while the present crop of plus tires have provided enough reliability, traction and rolling performance to launch the category, the short history of fat bikes has proved without question that in order to make oversized tires that are lightweight and durable enough to fit into the performance trailbike arena, we are going to need to re-evaluate the entire process of how a mountain bike tire is designed and manufactured. The accepted process of simply adding more rubber to a tire to armor it against sidewall cuts and pinch flats is a dead end. Conventional large volume enduro/all-mountain tires in the 2.35-inch range already weigh over 1000 grams. Scale those designs up to a three-inch casing and the weight figure goes through the roof.

The direction plus tire makers need to explore is to eliminate as much excess rubber (the heaviest component of a wheel) as possible, using it only for the tread. That means the casing fabric will have to be constructed of a far more durable blend of fabrics - one that is impervious to tearing and abrasion. Tubeless is the only option for plus tires, so to prevent the casings from pinch-flatting, the rim flange and the tire's bead area must be designed to cushion impacts and to spread those forces, in order to protect the casing from shearing. In theory, a second-gen plus tire would look more like a huge road racing skinwall with an aggressive tread. Only time will tell. Plus has the potential to revolutionize the middle ground between XC racing and long-travel enduro bikes, but it won't progress without a creative collaboration between rim and tire makers.

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Inventor and bike designer Brian Berthold poses with the flagship of his new bike range, Tantrum Cycles. The Meltdown's aluminum chassis features asymmetrical wheel diameters and his very practical dual-travel rear suspension that automatically switches from long to short-travel mode when it senses that the bike is being pedaled.


Tantrum Meltdown

Innovation is most often touted by larger brands, but is most often discovered in the displays of smaller, sometimes unknown vendors at trade shows. Brian Berthold was walking the show hoping to connect with interested retailers there. Berthold hails from Indianapolis, where he designs suspension products and bicycles. His latest endeavor is Tantrum Cycles and his first design, the Meltdown, showcases his automatic dual-travel rear-suspension design that switches seamlessly from a plush, 160-millimeters to a firm, 100-millimeters of rear-wheel travel when the pedals are engaged - without electronics or a remote lever. The forward swingarm pivot engages a vertical link that alters the shock's leverage rate whenever the rear wheel contacts a bump. When pedaling, chain-tension snaps the vertical link back in place.
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The shock is driven at the junction of two vertical links. When the bike hits a bump, the swingarm is pulled backwards and rotates the links forward, which reduces the leverage rate and increases travel.


Tobias Hild

One innovator who has had a major effect upon the bicycle industry is Tobias Hild. Based in Munich, Germany, Toby blew the doors off contemporary saddle designs with his groundbreaking research on pelvic and sit-bone widths that led him to found SQlab. Regardless of what you may have been told, Toby is the guy who established that saddles should be sold in graduating widths which correspond with each cyclist's sit-bone width, and with the angle of his or her riding position.

Toby also pioneered the sit-down saddle-width gauges that are now standard-issue from top accessory brands. Toby maintains that both sexes have the same variables in sit-bone widths and, while the concept may be controversial, that there is no physical need for separate female or male-specific saddle designs. SQlab was founded to make cycling more comfortable and has evolved into a complete range of grips, gloves, saddles and handlebars for both road and mountain disciplines.
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Tobias Hild, founder and designer at SQlab.

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Octave carbon fiber saddle has replaceable adhesive pads. The black pad is for mountain and the red gel pads are for road.

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SQlab's latest pelvic sit-bone measuring device has a grid embedded in the cushion that perforates a paper template at each pressure point.
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Plastic handles that allow endurance or cross-country athletes to climb or switch hand positions while keeping the controls in reach.

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SQlab's handlebar selection places the bones of the wrist in a neutral position, which reduces fatigue, numbness and the potential for injury.

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With many all-mountain and enduro-style riders opting for cargo-carrying bad-boy bibs to stash water and food, there may be rides where carrying a bit more water would be a good idea. Hydrapack had a full range of foldable bottles (some with nozzles and some without) that would take up very little space in your power panties after their contents were emptied. Their screw-on caps sync with Nalgene's bottles and a number of filtration systems.

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Kali Protectives has been testing shaped elastic polymer inserts (highlighted) to provide protection from rotational trauma. Continuing adoption of MIPS and similar protection strategies is quickly dividing helmet makers into two camps: those who choose, and those who don't choose to implement off-angle impact protection. In a short while, we will pass a tipping point where every cycling helmet will require it.

Interbike is home to a busload of products that most riders would never have a need for in their entire lives, but folks exist out there who would wear them out. And, the halls are chock full of not-so-exciting necessities I'd never photograph, yet their importance nets them the time and expense to make improvements each year. Sometimes though, the development curve goes backwards. High powered lighting systems were once the wondrous keys that unlocked the trails each evening for working class riders, but the advent of inexpensive LED lamps and readily available lithium ion batteries flipped the business up-side down. Everyone has a zillion lumen lighting unit now. There were so many on display that walking the show could give you a sunburn.

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Slime and Innovations in Cycling teamed up with Slime to package its inflation devices with Slime's latex tire sealant kits.
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The sealant is available in one-tire, three-ounce bottles, in addition to larger, more practical sized containers
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This man was mounting and dismounting the same tubeless tire for three days. He was running through Co2 cartridges faster than Arnold Schwarzenegger goes through bullets in an action flick. Lesson learned? Co2 cartridges probably should only be used in emergencies and more importantly perhaps, Innovations in Cycling, or another green thinking inflation product maker, should produce a small, rechargeable pressure bottle that could be refilled with a shock pump and either stashed in a hydration pack, or a water bottle cage.

Evoc bike bag 2015
Shameless plug, maybe, but I had the chance to travel with an EVOC bike bag this year and it rocks.
Evvoc Bike bag
A DH bike will fit inside, including a helmet and your riding gear. I shipped an enduro bike and it just popped in.

Litespeed titanium-framed fat bike
Hey, if you only have groomed cross-country ski trails to ride on four months out of the year, a titanium Litespeed fat bike makes sense...
Croozer trailer
...And, why not bring your child along. Croozer's bike trailer can be converted from wheels to skis with optional quick-release axle attachments.

Potal Bikes cargo hauler 2015
We hear a lot about awareness and eco-tourism, but the folks at Portal Bikes put their money where their mouth is. Portal's Burden Bikes are made in Nepal by locals and are available for sale there at a fair price, as well as globally, should anyone be interested. Portal's bike production ceased temporarily after the recent earthquake there, so the crew could build emergency housing for the many who lost their homes in the disaster.

Portal Bikes power take off corn husker
Portal's bikes are used to haul anything that can fit on them, and a power takeoff is included that can run accessories - like this corn husker.
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Portal had a few accessories there that could be operated by pedaling the bike with its sturdy center-stand in place. This is a coffee grinder

Old becomes new. Back when the sport began, the pioneers who cobbled together the first mountain bikes came from two camps: the folks who modified balloon tire paperboy bikes and the riders who came from road racing who modified lighter weight, smaller tire bikes like British three speeds to accomplish the same end. I fell somewhere in the middle. I remember riding my road racing bike over the local mountains on dirt roads, wishing for wider tires, straight handlebars and better brakes. When I heard of the exploits of those pioneers in Marin, I made my first mountain bike. Essentially, I was a pioneer Gravel Grinder who converted to mountain bikes.

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Combining enduro racing and gravel grinding - genius!
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Giro makes commemorative Grinduro racing shoes in royal purple.

Now, a new wave of roadies who call themselves "Gravel Grinders" are evolving along a similar evolutionary path. Tires are becoming wider, disc brakes are appearing, and the first vestiges of suspension are popping up - soft-tail elastomer cushions in the seat stays and flex-stems and seatposts in the cockpit - exactly the same path that early mountain bikers took in an effort to avoid adopting "real" suspension. Since 29-inch wheels and 700c wheels are essentially the same, we can expect gravel grinders to evolve into 29er XC bikes in short order. I wonder if suspension will emerge before flat handlebars? New becomes old.

Otis Guy and Charles Kelly pose with one of the Klunkers that Otis raced in the early days of the sport.
Pioneer riders and bike makers - and two of the greatest guys I have had the pleasure to ride with: Otis Guy (left) and Charles Kelly pose with one of the klunkers that Otis raced in the early days of the sport.

By far, the most enjoyable reason to attend Interbike each year is to reconnect with friends, competitors and co-workers, or just plain people watch. Mountain biking is as much a community of riders as it is a sport, which is a beautiful thing. The Mountain Bike Hall of Fame inducted bike and suspension designer Horst Leitner, German publisher and race-festival pioneer Uli Stanciu, BC freeride legends Todd “Digger” Fiander and "Dangerous" Dan Cowen, and Australian film-maker Glen Jacobs. Those lucky enough to get a seat at the Inspire Theater to preview Ryan Cleek's film, "Reach for the Sky," were treated to a raucous freerider's reunion in addition to a must-see story about the tumultuous rise of Cameron Zink, and Cleek's raw and revealing look at the underbelly of professional big-mountain freeriding. I will end my report on Interbike 2015 with a tribute to the human side of our sport. Cheers, until next year. - RC


bigquotesWho would believe that the guys on your new Intense Development Team would do so well at National and World Cup races in their first Season? - RC

bigquotesI believed. - Shaun Palmer

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Shaun Palmer signs posters at Magura.

Team Pivot Cycles Elliot Jackson left and Bernard Ker get ready to sign posters at the Maxxis booth.
Team Pivot Cycles' Elliot Jackson (left) and Bernard Ker at the Maxxis booth.

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Two racers who have become teachers. Claire Buchar and Chris Kovarik have earned respect on both sides of the race track.

Rachel Throop and Kelli Emmett at Interbike 2015
Winged, but still dangerous: Rachel Throop (left) and Kelli Emmett.
Kyle Warner with SR Suntour s Nick Hannah-Moore and Shawn Hamilton Interbike 2015
Enduro pro Kyle Warner with SR Suntour's Nick Hannah-Moore.

Charlie Sponsel s contest at FSA interbike 2015
Charlie Sponsel's insult contest at FSA - I couldn't help myself.
Fat Tire Flyer by Charlie Kelly Interbike 2015
Great read. The sport needs men like Charles Kelly - but not too many of them.


Lots of photos



Author Info:
RichardCunningham avatar

Member since Mar 23, 2011
974 articles

163 Comments
  • 70 4
 Good commentary on the plus sized tires. It will be interesting to see where this thing goes.

I was riding a very rocky trail in Fruita yesterday (Mary's loop/Horsetheif/Kokopelli) and noticed something really cool. There were a lot of older and newbie riders on plus and fat bike rentals. I struck up a conversation with one of them while I was helping her fix a dropped chain. She made the comment on how incredibly easy it is to ride (Salsa Bucksaw) and was clearly having a blast.

If that's what these new bikes mean to our sport we should be celebrating. More riders mean more advocacy and hopefully fewer fat people.
  • 17 4
 I just bought a Specialized FSR 6Fattie last week. It is extremely easy to ride, but that doesn't mean you have to ride it easy.
  • 14 13
 I agree that it's a good way to get more advocacy and more people on bikes. But do you really want entry level riders riding down your techy trails?
  • 40 2
 Fat bikes and/or + sized bikes are the right path to getting new riders on the trails. E-bikes are not the right path.
  • 40 3
 @Thustlewhumber Exactly though I"m interested to hear from people on issues with flats.

@skeen9 Who cares? I'd prefer a courteous and humble newbie to a douchy and rude "enduro-bro" strava-a*shole any day.
  • 2 5
 for people that cant pedal as well or not at all they are the way forward but everyone else should stop being lazy
  • 36 1
 I'll take new people on fatbike over new people on Ebikes anyday....
  • 15 0
 Funny about the tire pressure for + size. There were a lot of flat tires at the dirt demo but most of them were either fat bikes or + size tires. Trying to save weight and make a large volume tire does not work well.
  • 4 3
 @ryan83 definitely! Fat-style bikes are not ever going to be the fastest or high performance choice for high-level riding (ie world cup racing). However, they are FUN bikes and may bring something to the table for certain riders, whether you're snowed in or a newbie.
  • 8 12
flag torero (Sep 21, 2015 at 13:09) (Below Threshold)
 f*ck plus tires; they are a burden on the climbs, on downhill stretches, on bends and in the wallet.
  • 9 19
flag torero (Sep 21, 2015 at 13:13) (Below Threshold)
 We do not need more bikers on the trails, or more wheel sizes; we need cheaper and reliable bikes. If someone really loves this sport, you'll love the 26 "wheels...
  • 5 4
 @torero they are not a burden on climbs, there's one climb on a local trail I've only mad a handful of times and with the plus sized big it was much easier so i put a * beside that acomplishment, feels like cheating. so no not a burden
  • 18 14
 And what happens to all these newbies when the get on narrower tires after starting on plus size? You're all brainwashed by the industry to believe this load of crap. New riders should start on hard tails, or short-travel FS, work on basic skills, then go from there. If someone is put off by this, then maybe mountain biking is not the sport for them. This sport is supposed to be aspirational, not easy.
  • 22 2
 I want my girlfriend to start to ride with me, she wouldn't if I throw her on a hardtail and say here you need to develop your skills first because this is the right way. I've rode one and it was fun, I am now buying one. to each their own. Fat bikes can be thought of as training wheel, if they never go to a new bike with narrow tire who cares, if they do good for them
  • 3 2
 Wise words up here ^^
  • 38 3
 @skeen95
If you Really believe that fat or plus size bikes are going to make riding so easy that you are suddenly going to start seeing true beginners on your techy trails, then either your trails are not actually very technical, or you are very misled. A beginner rider would look at a technical trail, and say there is no possible way they would attempt to ride any sort of bike on that terrain. A wider tire is not going to magically imbue a beginner with fitness and balance and technique, and the confidence to point their bike down something that they might not even want to hike and completely frightens them.
Fat bikes and plus bike do a LOT of things very well, and they can be ridden very hard as a trail bike. I would argue the whole "good for beginners" concept is being pushed out of context because they make it a little less frustrating for a beginner who is going to struggle with certain things when they start out, but they are in no way a cure all. You still have to pedal the crap out of them. You still have to pick good lines. You still have to know how to corner well. And cornering really well on a fatbike is not an entirely intuitive thing. Just like cornering well on a knobby 2.3" tire is not intuitive thing, but something that must be learned through practice.

I have a fatbike and absolutely love it to death, but make everything easier!?!?! It does not.
Make loose terrain a lot less frustrating, and make sand and snow rideable? It does

You can put any bike under a beginner, and they are still a beginner. And you can put any bike under a pro, and they are still a pro. The tool should match the task. Stop believing what a product or marketing manager tells you to think about something, and use your own brain and experience to decide for yourself, For Yourself.

Bikes are RAD. So long as you pedal them with your own damn power and not a F'ing battery.
  • 2 0
 @ryan83 yeah I totally agree with that, I love riding with motivated riders that are just getting into the sport. I meant it in more of a safety way, riders that aren't comfortable riding on a regular tire size shouldn't go hop on a really technical trail (risking it for themselves and others). Just my opinion, but I think it's better to slowly progress regardless of tire size.
  • 9 2
 @SlodownU We have to move past the mentality that people need to earn it like we did.

These new generation of plus/fat bikes simplify the terrain and allow the rider to focus more on fitness. There is always room for progression so why not make it less frustrating to start the sport?
  • 4 1
 650b plus bikes are a riot regardless of your ability. People who say otherwise haven't ridden them.
  • 3 7
flag sicsoma (Sep 21, 2015 at 22:12) (Below Threshold)
 greg carter has moobs and a gut that makes me believe nothing he says about mtb bikes
  • 2 2
 @ryan83 I run 16/18psi front/rear. This give a good compromise of traction and rolling resistance, imho. Anything lower and I can feel the rear tire start to roll under heavy cornering. I use Orange sealant and have seen some spots where the tire has sealed, but I haven't had a case of a pinch flat or tire rolling off the bead yet.

I am not sure if it is the tires (I'm sure they help) or if its the new Fox 34/ Float DPS combo, but this is a true "point and shoot" bike. Does that make it easier for the new people? Sure, but I really don't agree that these bikes are aimed at them. These bikes are stinkin fast: they corner well, they climb well, and they bomb downhill well. A new guy can benefit from these, yes, but the experienced guys are the ones who are going to benefit the most with this type of bike.
  • 1 1
 When Maxxis or Specialized make tires with real sidewalls and stop being scared of the extra 200 grams, a good 2.8-3.0" tired bike will be nuts, especially in blown-out loose.
  • 2 1
 @jclnv this is one of the points made in the article. Until tire technology gets better I'm not willing to add any more rotating weight to my wheels (especially if I'm going to get more flats). With most of my rides in the 1500 feet of climbing range I need all the help I can get. Another factor is in a few years carbon rims will have mass adoption due to lowering costs and improving reliability. This will only strengthen the argument for bigger tires as rims will hopefully weigh much less and be stronger than current alloys.

I think the true test of reliability and increased performance will be whether we see racers, either DH or Enduro running plus bikes.
  • 2 1
 I agree with all of that.

I'm sure that if the terrain was loose and sketchy enough they would be faster. Believe me I was ready to hate them but they feel like a normal trail bike on crack rather than a fat bike. The Specialized 6fattie is the bike I rode. Even with the crap tires I want one! Made my pimped out, 1 degree slacker than stock E29 with Maxxis 2.5" DHF's feel like a cyclocross bike Smile
  • 2 1
 www.pinkbike.com/video/398279

I own a 27b+.5 (I mean, seriously, wtf are we calling these things?), but this vid totally hits the nail on the head.
  • 30 2
 So the manufacturers are collaborating on lobbyists in Washington for e-bike trail access. Thanks guys! That's really going to help trail advocacy for actual mountain bikes. what a waste...
  • 24 4
 I love mountain biking, but have a disability that limits my ability to ride at times because I become easily fatigued. Even though I can personally see the benefit of e-bikes, I think the cost is too high. People ride motorized vehicles in a way that is fundamentally different, and incompatible with human powered trail use. Motorized vehicles, whether they be electric or gas, KTM or Specialized have no place on human powered only trails. In places with sparse population that can accommodate hiking, biking and motorcycles on the same trail, then I say pick your poison. In crowded areas like the bay area, it's either going to be hiking and biking with no e-bikes, or hiking only if e-bikes are lumped into the same category as regular bikes.
  • 12 1
 Pinkbike should do more activism. Like, writing articles raising awareness of trail access issues and encouraging people to sign petitions and stuff if they want.
  • 7 8
 how about YOU write those articles as a contributing author, if you're so concerned. ah yes, always the "someone should...." attitude
  • 12 15
 Bla bla bla, human accessed trails, you said it just as it is man. People on e-bikes are not humans, because FEST, because 26" downhill bike on Marzocchi. I need to make a drawing with MTB unit of KKK, sitting by a trail hunting for people on E-bikes, plus bikes, XC 29ers, and let's be honest, we hate those Enduro faegggots too. They may have baggy pants but there's lycra under it.
  • 5 1
 Lycra: invented by Satanists
  • 4 1
 E-bikes right now are short distance crap bikes. But so were cars at one time. In a few years we will see long distance and very fast bikes. We have to make a stand now.
  • 1 0
 @WAKIdesigns I didn't know that gays are Targaryens.
  • 2 4
 RLEnglish, unfortunately (for haters' imaginations) electric motors have their limitations due to nature of their construction, they have to be quite heavy. Bosch has been doing motorized devices since ages, yet their bicycle motor still weighs almost 10lbs. Currently they add by average 18lbs to the system (motor/battery/framing). There won't be a 300g engine/battery combo than can go 100mph, just like there won't be a 5kg Session. Never.
  • 1 1
 enduro euro faggot crag. cut a hole in mine for a nice finger pop stop xx
  • 14 0
 nice work RC! so much never gets said about interbike. there's more to it than the latest shiny objects...
  • 8 1
 This is the best article I've read about Interbike. Thanks!
  • 14 0
 sooooo, is anybody surprised tthat the guy with the tummy liked the + bike. cause im seriously not.
  • 11 1
 Very good article RC. It seems frank discussions about the viability and direction of industry trends are sorely lacking these days. Manufacturers seems content to push new standards without regard to the investment customers have made in THEIR industry. The near-instant death of 26" is scary evidence that, even if a "standard" is decades old, it will disappear when something 0.05% better comes along. I'm no luddite, but change without substantial benefits reeks of desperation.

p.s. E-bikes...rode one and had fun, but they don't belong on trails with actual bikes. but i'm pretending the industry listens their customers...
  • 9 0
 Great seeing you too RC. I see you turned around my quip about VVA and used it on me! Thanks for the kind words about me and about my book, which for those who didn't catch the plug, is FAT TIRE FLYER.
  • 4 0
 Shine on, Charlie! Great to see you honored as an elder in the tribe.
  • 8 3
 Enough with the electronic drivetrain. In my opinion, all of this R&D that has gone into expensive yet finniky (sp?) components that now can fail on multiple levels (not just mechanical) could have gone into making what could be the next big thing in biking; an affordable and lighter gearbox. I'm a huge advocate for it. Companies will still be able to make money off of it, offering up different internals to fit what could be a somewhat standard (is this a recognized word in the bike industry anymore?) housing. Belt driven, chain driven, whatever seems appropriate would have my money waay before I would even consider this electronic crap. I don't need a display for what gear I'm in, If I'm not going fast enough, I shift and pedal harder. Mechanical will ALWAYS be more reliable than electronic setups, and easier to fix. It's like vehicles with linkage driven 4x4 vs electronic engagement. Newer vehicles vs older vehicles. I still own vehicles that I can work on. If you buy a vehicle today, it's all driven by electronics and you need a masters in EE to figure it out, or you have to take it in, where even THEY can't troubleshoot it. Not to say that electronic drivetrains are that complicated, but the money in development could be better spend in getting reliable products to the consumer.
  • 17 13
 Awesome coverage RC, has something changed? You are honest and biting case to the bone lately - I love it! Now...
1.No you do not need more engagement points than DT race ratchet to ride your bike, but you can masturbate your engineering talent away by trying to get nano-degree engagement.
2.Super cool about the women, Long Liv Giant!
3.Electric mountain bikes are NOT the source of evil, they are awesome, and I take 100 E-bikers on my home trail over 3 Joeys on DH-bikes in the park. Brake bumps and unnecessary injuries are made by morons standing in the middle of a downhill track.
4.Plus size is the source of evil and sink for the most naive expectations
5.Certain pro riders I spoke to were unsure about rims wider than 25mm internal doing much good, at least with current tyre designs. One of them said that square tread patter profile is excellent only for those who don't lean their bikes much...
6.Guy from Tantrum is the Spirit of Enduro
7.Palmer has to cut his sugar and bacon intake or Intense team nutritionist will have a hard time explaining their racers that although it is counter-intuitive, higher mass does NOT go down faster, especially in case of human body, where higher mass means also more air resistance... Introduce them to some Euro Frenchie diet...
  • 3 1
 nice, but nothing about the insultathon ? i'm disapointed
  • 5 6
 Willy warmer in the saddle would be nice.
  • 4 0
 totally. Now picture yourself in winter in sweden, riding a plus Ebike with a Willy warmer as your only bikewear. Isn't that nice?
  • 7 1
 3. So your home trails are motorized access? Cool. If not, keep the mopeds where they belong- on the motor trails.
  • 4 0
 I'd rather have star ratchet than more engagement points.
  • 8 9
 No my trails are not motorized access, but if you can't see a difference between a pedal assisted e-bike and a motor bike then you have your common sense gland removed. Aaaaand even though I do not ride moto, I am pretty sure that no motorbike owner would be happy to see a pedal assisted MTB on his trail. I see no throttle on 250W bicycles and even if I would, the battery would have to be of a size weighing 30lbs to put you through an hour ride... this is just silly, just as the mention of a "conspiracy" of e-bike lobbyists. I can see that, Haibike representatives coming with their private jet to corrupt some God loving republican mayor in some shXthole
  • 5 0
 DT Swiss was displaying their 18t, 36t and 54t star ratchets. You want to be careful not to use too much grease with the 54t. It would be a good idea to pull it apart to clean and re-grease it more often than you would for the 18 and 36t. Or just chuck an 18t in your pack for epic rides just to be safe... The 54t is plenty responsive in my opinion, just make sure your skewer stays tight!
  • 3 0
 E bikes are the spawn of satan! What grossly out of shape people and handicapped on MY trails! Preposterous! Silhouettes of sexy woman on socks! Scandalous! Plus size tires. Your saying my tires are Fat!
  • 4 3
 According to Pinkbike Order of True Mountain Biking, 26" wheel Adventists - God does not exist, it is unreasonable to believe otherwise, only fools like Aaron Gwin would seek comfort in the person of an omnipotent leviathan. It is simple science. But apparently Satan does exist and he runs electric motors. There is also Super Satan, he is taller, has wider horns and has a machine shop making hubs of various widths.
  • 1 0
 Hahahahaha I f-ing knew it. Is there a Supreme Satan that overlooks the smooth, stealthy execution of keeping 20 sizes alive for every component interface?? Headset, bb, seatpost.. soon to be hub widths with the direct overlook by Super Satan himself?
  • 3 0
 @WAKIdesigns
If you can't see that an e-bike is a motorized vehicle, then you need your brain fixed. It even says XXX watt MOTOR right in the damn description. How is that not a motor bike? It's a motor + a bike. What more do you want? Where are you pulling this mystical semantic difference? Is it because the motor on an ebike is electric rather than an internal combusion engine? Have you ever tried to drag race a Tesla?
  • 1 4
 I will tell you one thing tsheep - go ahead and frickin try it. Take Trek Powerfly or some Haibike with pedal assist, cutting power off at around 15mph and ride trails with it, and tell me that it lies ANYWHERE close to a moped or one of those shitty motards for 300$ at department store. It doesn't. It is weaker by a margin but at the same time I assure you that it decreases trail erosion compared to XC bike with semi-slicks. But if you need a proof, then take it to a frickin moto/enduro trail and tell me it belongs there. Be prepared to either be ridden over by a 100kg moto or kicked in the face by it's owner. What the hell mate? It is a MOTOR operated by your pedals, not hand throttle. If you catch a guy on one with hand operated throttle or with hacked assist, supporting your pedalling above 15mph, then please feel free to call the police. Until then, stop chasing ghosts.
  • 2 0
 Waki, at one point, when you have too much sand in your vagina, it flows directly into the motor of your e-bike. I'm not sure your willy warmer will prevent this, because inadapted.
  • 4 1
 @WAKIdesigns
I've ridden a few of them mate. They're a lot of fun. So are motos. But I'm not operating under any sort of delusion that they're anything less than a motorized vehicle.

"I assure you that it decreases trail erosion compared to XC bike with semi-slicks."

You've gone utterly bonkers, totally off the reservation, and completely out to lunch if you think this could possibly be true. There is no universe in which this makes logical sense. More power = more erosion. More distance covered = more erosion. More speed = more erosion.

I ain't the one "chasing the ghost" here matey, it's before lunch and I'm stone cold sober. What are you on?
  • 3 0
 @WAKIdesigns
I think you are missing the whole point of the opposed-to-ebikes-party. At least the point RC is making here, and many others are trying to do so as well.
It's not even so much about what we think of them as cyclists and what their actual capabilities are, as it is about what we think of them as a society and categorize them with in regards to land access. For whatever asinine reason, in the US, there is already an overly aggressive stance trying to lump Mtn bikes in with dirtbikes, and introducing e-mtn bikes into the equation would be all it would take to close the gap between the two, and for some areas to be shut down, and tickets being handed out, overnight. Right or wrong? Definitely Wrong. But it is the way it is. There are designated land areas that allow the use of motorized vehicles and thats where, IMO, these should stay. And I am not talking about a MX track or a hard enduro course. I'm talking about wilderness areas that have trails just like the ones you and I ride, but are on land that has been designated for multi-use.
  • 1 1
 @Metacomet - ok I get the legal issue angle, totally, thanks for clarifying. But it will still fall down under the load facts, sooner or later. I was referring to reality of trail erosion and trail traffic, for this is what it comes down to. Since around 2008-10, bicycles with 5-6" of travel got so good at climbing and descending in one package that anyone can get anywhere (as RC wrote in his recent piece). E-bikes are simply a drop in the sea of Joeys, it will be like a problem of being 250lbs ang getting additional 20. Why? Because there will be no rush of E-bikes, they are simply too expensive.
  • 1 1
 With 5-6" bikes, people can ditch the shuttle vehicle and its related gong show (I think e-bikes are actually the sensible choice at a shuttle zone), and we have climb trails popping up everywhere.

The future is coming: lighter/cheaper/more powerful batteries and motors, regenerative braking, and it can't be that hard to modify your way around government regulations. E-bike or Moto? the hiker doesn't care. www.stealthelectricbikes.com
  • 3 0
 Super Satan has a sale on Evil Fat E bikes. First 666 people get a free big mack at McDonald's!
  • 3 1
 Stealth electric bike has nothing to do with a certified power assisted bicycle. It is a lightweight motorcycle. Make up a new CPAB name if you like but throwing Bosch engine equipped bikes and Stealth to one bucket is silly. 250W, 25kmph speed limit and no throttle, the rules are clear, at least in Europe. It is super easy to hack it but once caught on crime, you take consequences and then you maybe buy a real moto instead
  • 1 0
 @WAKIdesigns
You are thinking so logically that it has become unrealistic. I am really not concerned about an influx of e-bikes. I am not concerned about potential effects for erosion from e-bikes either. I completely wholeheartedly agree they will not begin to take off in popularity to the point where they are a regular sight. They are expensive as all get out, and they are still a pedal bike with a wimpy electric motor. I completely agree that One dude skidding around corners and down every descent on any kind of bike is going to have more impact in an hour than a full year of one dude appropriately riding a mtb, whether it is electric or not. Does this brake dragging and ultra accelerated erosion happen ALL the time in reality? No of course not.
In the beginning, we were lumped in with dirtbikes because this Mtn Dew skid your way through pristine wilderness was the image associated with mtn bikes. Just the image of this was enough to associate us with destructive land uses such as dirtbikes, and apply and Enforce a widespread ban. They didn't look at the Actual effects on the land. They looked at the common perception at the time.
All of the lobbying that was and is Still CURRENTLY being done to try and separate us from being categorized in with dirtbikes and motorized sports would take an enormous step backwards if there is yet one more perceivable link tying us to dirtbikes. They are not looking at facts. They are looking at perception. Their own largely uninformed and misguided perception.
If they were looking at facts, and had all the time to consider such things, they would differentiate between a 125cc dirtbike and a quad, and a Jeep Wrangler and a diesel dually 4x4 pickup in regards to land access. But they don't. Its an umbrella. And I do Not want to be under the same umbrella. Just like I'm sure the dirtbikers don't want to be stuck under the same umbrella with a 4x4 truck. But unfortunately, in many areas they are.
  • 1 0
 Unrealistic logic=devils talk!
E bikes = devils tool to mans ultimate destruction.
can't you see the s ighns? Its all over them socks!
  • 1 0
 @Metacomet - I see what you are saying and I agree with it to a great degree BUUUUT you are simply not going to create a border with some bill, because E-assisted bicycles are still bicycles and people buying them still perceive it this way, otherwise, they would buy a motorbike. So go ahead ban them legally, but for it to take ANY effect you will have to discriminate them and make them feel like sht, because they will still ride their bikes on your trails because it will be worth the risk of paying a fine, just like all the people in the world ride their bicycles on hiking trails and in wildlife protected areas despite the obvious bans. There are people over here who ride motos in national reserve and all everybody notices is tyre marks on bridges and sometimes motor noise from far away, NOBODY can do anything about it, because they keep it low - most bans are impossible to execute. Who's unrealistic?
  • 3 0
 "E-assisted bicycles are still bicycles"

No, no no no. They look like bicycles, and companies are sure as s&*t marketing them as "bicycles" because its to their advantage to do so, but by definition a bicycle is solely a human powered vehicle. An e-bike has a motor and a battery that provides power for propulsion. It doesn't matter if it's 1 W, or 10,000, if it's pedal-assist or a simple throttle. if it's using a motor to move, it's a motor vehicle.
  • 1 0
 @WAKIdesigns
I know it will not be all that effective at creating an effective border from people actually riding them on mtb trails. I am not concerned about that. I want to agree with everything you are saying. I want to Believe everything you are saying, that they will have no impact, and there will be so few, that the effects of them will never be felt in any way shape or form. If there were a few e-mtb's whirring around my local trails, I really could care less personally because I know what they are, and what they are Not. It just comes down to legislation. It's so sensitive in many areas that even the littlest ripples can make big waves. I know it sounds unrealistic, but its the unfortunate reality. There have been so many areas that have been shut down and Very strictly enforced because of very minor and isolated events. Areas that were legal for Mtb use, but a jump gets built and they shut down the whole thing for years. Cops waiting, handing out tickets. Not exaggerating. A person on a bike ran into a GIANT YELLOW gate and sewed the town, and it almost permanently shut the whole area down for bike use. One douche face has a negative interaction with the wrong hiker in a legal and popular mtb area, and it can shut the place down. People get word that Biking is ok in an area and decide to go and make some new trails, and it can change the entire relationship and result in all the trails within that system being closed.
Yes, we are mtb'ers. We will find a way and a place to ride, even and especially in banned ares. But this is a very fine line with regard to e-bikes.
You've got to remember there are a hell of a ton of people lobbying to get land opened for dirtbikes, and a hell of a ton of people lobbying to get land shut down for mtb use, and there is a very good chance they both outnumber us and have more resources behind them. If I were one of them, and I found out that areas that were legal for bikes were also legal for some new fangled e-mountain bikes!? That would be one hell of an angle for me to leverage to an uninformed politician. Hey, we have electric dirtbikes too! They have motorized bikes, and we have motorized bikes! Give us access dammit! And the politician will say, wait, what? The Bicycles now have motors in them!? BAN. Sound stupid? It does to me too.
Make me a believer WAKI!! I Want to BELIEVE!
  • 5 0
 Thankx Richard Cunningham for showcasing PORTAL BIKES to the world... We, the people of Nepal are very much thankful for supporting us Wink cheers
  • 7 0
 Finally the durolux changes its look. The previous graphics were terrible.
  • 6 0
 looks burly and just awesome!!
  • 5 0
 RC This is quite probably your best article. Very good and valid points. Maybe is time to take lead and move Interbike to the beginning of the summer.
  • 6 1
 Co2 cartridges are such a disgace... What about pump inside seatpost. That's what I do. And what has been done since the 80's...
  • 4 0
 Or just a pump in your bag or bottle cage? I was stranded on co2 once. That's all it took...
  • 10 6
 They should make a dropper post with pump mode...
  • 5 2
 re-seating a tubeless tire with a hand-pump can be chore... I keep a couple CO2 in my bag just in case the tire popped off the rim.
  • 8 1
 Put a tube in it until you get home. CO2 cartridges are such a waste. It's just laziness in the end.
  • 7 0
 More of the tantrum please!!
  • 1 0
 tantrumcycles.com.

Not much of a website yet, it will be built daily (weekly?)
  • 7 0
 also Shaun Palmer looks stoned as hell in that pic.
  • 6 0
 Great article! Really was a pleasure to read. Keep up the good work! Beer
  • 3 0
 Is it just me, or could Thomasberg's comments on plus size tire air pressure be negated through the use of dual air chamber systems, like Schwalbe ProCore? Seems to me the plus size plus procore = best of both worlds, a complete win win on the trails.
  • 1 0
 Plus size Nobby Nics on a 40mm rim and Procore! Still lighter and more durable than the Specialized factory plus tire.
  • 5 0
 @RichardCunningham: Suspension on gravel bikes has indeed arrived; the Cannondale Slate has a 30mm Lefty.
  • 4 1
 also @RC, any up to date news about Marzocchi who were at the show?
  • 3 0
 After listening to their explanation about the SRAM Wireless Red, I told him I was super stoked about it and can't wait for the mountain group also. He looked at me like I was crazy and turned around.
  • 6 0
 Hoo boy, Shaun Palmer got pudgy.
  • 1 0
 faded as hell!
  • 2 0
 Interesting perspective into interbike and the bike industry. I like to see guys like Elliot Jackson bringing some class and style to the sport (minus flat brim and logo tee). Also, why does the sound of a mountain bike being referred to as an "enduro" bike still sound like fingernails on a chalkboard to me? Great read!
  • 2 1
 The explanation of the Tantrum Meltdowns linkage really don't make sense. There's no way it could be a "dual-travel rear-suspension design that switches seamlessly from a plush, 160-millimeters to a firm, 100-millimeters of rear-wheel travel when the pedals are engaged" since nothing can move independently.
It's seems like some one have copied a text talking about Konas Magiclink.
What I can see it's that the "plushness" should change greatly, depending on chaintension and rearward impacts affecting how soft/stiff the suspension is at any point.
If it could be morphed with Canyons Shapershift geometry changing link, I think it would be my Holy Grail. A Magic Link that would do all that I when When I want it!!!
  • 2 0
 Hi Guys, a little late to the party. Still recovering from Euro/Interbike. This is Brian Berthold, the Tantrum guy, not GaryF (called that twice), or the Col. He has a mustche, c'mon. But two people ordered chicken at Interbike. I charge 10K and throw in a free bike.

Sooo, you are correct, simsburner, I think RC (you know I love you) was having a flashback to being the first guy ever to test the Magic Link Coilair in the bad old days. We almost got eaten by a mountain lion and finished the ride down mt Wilson in complete dark with no light.

But his description was more accurate for that bike. Pedaling would lockout the little Aux shock and the rear suspension would be limited to the main air shock at about 2/3 the max travel. When you hit a bump or stopped pedaling, the aux shock would be active for 100% travel.

That's where the Tantrum is much better. Not only can the Tantrum COMPLETELY lockout the rear suspension under extreme efforts (think granny gear paved climb), but the sag will gradually be reduced as the angle of incline increases. If it is truly a max effort climb, the sag will be reduced to ZERO and the shock will feel welded shut. Hardtail. You will have the steepest climbing geometry and completely rigid rear end. Until you hit the bump. At that point, the link will rotate the other way, assisting compression of the suspension, allowing it to respond instantly with a softer spring force than normally would be possible.

So you nailed it, simsburner, the plushness is continually varying. For now, let's call the plushness, the wheel rate. The spring rate determines how many pounds it takes to compress the spring an inch. Similarly, the wheel rate is how many pounds it takes to compress the wheel an inch. Normally, the wheel rate at any point in it's travel is determined by the spring rate, the leverage ratio, and other modifiers like anti squat, and braking forces.

With the Tantrum, the wheel rate is also modified by the Missing Link, as it tries to rotate in either direction, depending on how hard you are pedaling versus how hard the bumps and braking forces are. Thus, the wheel rate can be much stiffer or softer compared to ANY other non computerized shock. And it does it at the right times. For those of you worried about how a high pivot bike (old Super V or Super Cool extends and retracts under pedaling, forget it. The link feeds into the shock in a very damped way, you don't even feel it extending when you're climbing. It just does.

And the geometry change is much greater as well. Why? No bike can have it's shock at full extension during a climb. We can run a slacker head angle statically and it will be steeper while climbing due to max shock extension. This is very noticeable in terms of riding position and keeping the front down/not wandering.

The website isn't much yet, but there's some more detailed explanation here; www.tantrumcycles.com

And feel free to ask away here. I'm really excited about bringing this to market.

BB
  • 1 0
 The scary thing about e-mtn bikes is that people who would not normally buy a mtn bike would buy an e-mtn bike and then take it on trails. I think this is what is giving some manufacturers a money-grubbing boner. Increase market share? More sales? New technology to prostitute? They salivate at all that crap. Real mtbrs know these things are bad for the sport and our image.

Fortunately, consumers have the most impact and the last word. If you truly don't want e-mtn bikes, then boycott any brand that sells them, even if it's your favorite. If a brand owns a spinoff company making e-mtn bikes, then boycott that brand and let them know. WE can't rely on brands to be responsible and think about the welfare of the sport, trails and the sport's image. They are in business to make money, which is fine, but they need to be kept in check and the only thing they will pay attention to is what hurts or helps their sales.
  • 1 1
 I'm starting to think that the people doing these reports run through for an hour... take a few photos and then party the rest of the time. These write ups are so short and incomplete. Side note... Kali's system looks like an adaptation of 6d's. I'd think Kali could come up with something different with the big brains they've got there. I'm actually a big fan of the brand and what they're trying to do.
  • 3 2
 if you are to jaded by the industry or your job to get enjoyment out of it you have been doing it for to long and need to take a break. first paragraph came off like a super industry insider douche comment.....
  • 2 0
 "Innovations in Cycling" is called Genuine Innovations and has been the same as Slime for a number of years.
I do agree on the refillable air cartridges though.
  • 1 1
 I think most of the issues with flat tires on Fat/Plus bikes have to do with the lack of Tubeless Technology for them at this point. Most fat bikes have been set up tubeless with duct tape, or extra tubes, or people just give up and run tubes with stan's in them (horrible idea by the way.)

I have been riding 3.8" tires in Western PA rock gardens (aka trails) for the whole season, and have not have a flat (until later today, I realize as I am writing this) once I got some rim tape that sealed up my rim properly.

There is also an issue with people trying to keep these tires light - skipping the sidewall protection. Fat/plus tires just aren't gonna be light. Shame about the flats, but I don't think it is as simple as tire pressure. It could also be that the molds/processes for these tires (besides Surly's fat tires) are brand new, and there are still kinks to work out for everyone else.
  • 4 3
 The Tantrum makes me feel uncomfortable. It looks like the shock bent the downtube. I'm sure they know what they are doing but isn't that bend the weakest point of that tube?
  • 2 0
 Well , of course tests are taken in order to minimize the probabilities of a new product to come out defective. However you cannot wait from a company ,especially a small one to be perfect and succeed from their first attempt . Even greater companies upgrade their frames and products year by year by trial and error =)
  • 4 0
 Obviously the chicken game isnt going so well. Looks like the colonel has updated his looks and moved into the mtb biz.
  • 8 1
 Tantrum = Kona magic link
  • 8 0
 I couldn't believe what i just saw. This bike is... just a so unbelievably well thought design, that it made me sad I'm not that mastermind person, as the designer of this piece of aluminium. Just cannot believe my eyes, that this simple design employs four bar linkage with virtual pivot point, automatic travel adjust without any hydraulic, inertia or electric elements. Just the linkage. Maybe this idea needs to be tested and perfected, but it's like rough diamond, that needs to be cut, polished and lead to perfection.
  • 4 0
 First look, thought the Tantrum dude was Gary Fisher!
  • 1 0
 This isn't the same as the Kona Magic Link.
With Kona Magic Link, the axle path has two degrees of freedom (2dof), and therefore the axle can move within a 'window' of travel. It needs (and has) two independent springs/dampers to control this.

Tantrum Meltdown is a 6-bar linkage. The axle path has one degree of freedom (1dof), and can only move along a single pre-determined axle path. It only needs (and only has) one spring/damper.
Claims of it working like a 2dof system are false.
  • 1 1
 My first thought was he was trying too hard to be cool
  • 2 0
 Hi Tufty, You are sorta correct on one point, putting shock loads at right angles to tubes is generally not a good idea. But when the benefits are there, we can reinforce that tube and spread the load nicely, and actually make it stronger. By the way, most bikes put some shock related load into he DT, not to mention the rocker load in the middle of the ST. Not a big deal as long as the engineer does his job.

fla3h, if you ever saw a frame on a CEN test machine, you'd be simultaneously impressed and scared. the tests are run inside a "blast box", in case the thing flies apart. Usually, you turn the machine on at night and let go until the frame is destroyed or the max number of cycles are reached. I get great pleasure out of coming in in the morning and seeing the machine had given up and shut itself off, the frame undamaged.
  • 2 0
 MX298, I did invent and design the Magic Link bikes. And nothing has really changed as far as the motivation for the Tantrum's Missing Link. To overly simplify things, stiffer, shorter travel and steeper geometry when climbing, opposite for descending. To overly simplify things. But with the missing link, I found a way to make it lighter, stiffer, less expensive, easier to make, easier to setup and maintain, with a few more advantages. The Magic Link actually still has an advantage in pure bump absorption, because of the manipulation of rates possible with the two shocks in series. The Magic link will see the light of day again as a pure DH bike, for that reason.
  • 1 0
 dzenyy, THE CHECK IS IN THE MAIL!!!!
  • 1 0
 telebiker, c'mon, no beret, no mustache, no crushed velour. GF would be slummin it to look like me. The man has style.
  • 2 0
 hmcleay, the magicv link does indeed have a "window" for the axle path, but the two shocks couldn't really control it. It was all in the mix with bump, pedaling and braking forces. But the window for the axle path really wasn't a big plus or minus, more a byproduct. The main thing was initial rearward action, which is shared by the Missing link.

the Tantrum is actually a 5 bar, as far as the axle path, with a DIFFERENT 5 bar running the shock, but the missing link and rocker are common to both 5 bar linkages and interconnected.

I don't think RC or anyone else was claiming a 2d of freedom for the rear axle path, so I don't think anyone is trying to present a falsehood.
  • 2 0
 I've been working on this idea for many years, started testing the design with a handmade proto 2 years ago (you've seen the pics), Then had a proper sample made with off-the-shelf tubing. What you see is the 3rd round pre-production bike. We had a dedicated DT hydroformed to my specs and the forgings have been cleaned up.

The final production version is in process, with a few more refinements. The frame you see weighs 3.54 kg (7lb 13oz) with shock, which is already almost half a pound lighter than the magic link bikes. Further sculpting on the production frame has dropped another 1/4 pound.

While Tantrum Cycles is new, my design experience is not. I was responsible for designing every tube, every forging, every part of the magic link bikes. In addition to 20 years designing cars and parts in F1, Indycars, GTP, GTO, TransAm and Motocross. I didn't do this just to come out with another, me too, bike. The bottom line is that you can pretty much buy a bike from any brand and get a damn fun ride.

But this thing is special. It rides special. It can do things that no other bike design can do. Good things. Fun things. It feels fast and it is fast. And plush. And climby. And I want people to enjoy my work.

cheers

www.tantrumcycles.com
  • 2 0
 Ha Ha . Mr B.B. I remember seeing the magic link prototype's back in the day. I figured you were at it again. Keep it up, love the innovation's.
  • 3 0
 how high is Shaun Palmer?
  • 1 0
 Palmer Project . . . . .
  • 3 1
 ahahaha those handlebar mittens! I will take my skis or a board over a fat bike and those things anyday.
  • 1 0
 The photo with the lovely Rachel Throop in it is my favourite. She has such a beautiful face and smile!
  • 1 0
 Otis Guy with a veteran tight tuck on the go. Thats a gritty individual right there.
  • 1 0
 Great interbike report RC. Your point of view on the industry is insightful to many of us.
  • 1 0
 That Portal rig looks pretty cool. If it had a rolling machine attachment I might consider it.
  • 1 0
 I would be curious to see how a 180mm, carbon, air sprung, 1x, 27.5+ in the front and a 27.5 in the back, would ride.
  • 1 0
 In slipery turns the 27+ would probably loos grip and slip sideways way befor the narrower 27" making an interesting ride.
The other way around would make more sense to ad more climbing traction and sideways suspension on rocks and roots..
  • 2 1
 Putting the larger tire up front is the way to go. It helps with tracking through turns.
  • 2 1
 Thats the oposit from my experience. In muddy and slippery conditions narrower size tyres gives more grip then a wider. That's why rally cars yours narrow tyres on loose surfaces as mud and snow, to increase ground pressure.
  • 2 0
 Um, no. They don't do that to increase ground pressure. That would make the car sink into the ground. They do it because the narrower tire "cuts through" the slush better. That's why guys who go to mud pits use narrower tractor tires. It's less rolling resistance and it acts a sort of "rudder" for the turning wheels. Since mountain bikes typically aren't operated in conditions such as rally cars are subjected to, this principle doesn't apply here. Also, rally cars are typically Awd and are able to go under power with the touch of throttle. Since mountain bikes don't really have a "throttle" for instant power, they aren't the same. Look at BMX race bikes. They do a lot of turning in a short distance. A larger tire up front, in a bicycle instance, helps the bike track and thus turn easier.
  • 1 0
 Rally cars was a bad example from my side. Anyway I would never ride a 2.80 or wider in front and 2.40 or less in the back. My experience from trying that (2.40 front and 1.90 in the rear to get more traction in mud) was that the front lost cornering grip in certain muddy conditions due to less ground pressure = mud planning.
  • 1 0
 That's a little on the extreme side. I would run a 2.35 in rear and a 2.5 up front. Although, I did run the 2.5 in back because I personally ride heavy over the rear ended due to my size and that the frame I ride is too small.
  • 1 0
 Not so sure about those Pogies. I choose to wear snow-cross gloves instead.
  • 1 0
 Im gonna put some bar ends inside my grips, because xc.
  • 1 0
 Greg Carter knows what a good ride is!
  • 1 0
 Tantrum Meltdown. you know when dog owners look like there dogs
  • 1 0
 John Lock approves.
  • 2 2
 Kovarik looks stonned.
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