Britain to Remove Tariffs on Non-EU Bicycles in Event of No-Deal Brexit
The British Government has confirmed that bicycles entering the UK will get 0% tariffs for up to 12 months following a No Deal Brexit. Currently bicycles are free to import from other EU countries to the UK, however, bikes coming into the UK from outside the EU are subject to a 17% duty.
A No Deal Brexit would occur if the UK cannot come to an agreement about the "divorce" process with the EU. Overnight, the UK would leave the single market and customs union - arrangements designed to help trade between EU members by eliminating checks and tariffs. The UK is currently planning to leave the EU on October 31, however UK law says that an extension until January must be sought if a Deal cannot be struck with the EU before then. However, if the EU refuses to grant an extension, the UK will "crash out" with a No Deal at the end of the month. There is also another chance of No Deal happening in January if the extension is granted.
The Government's temporary tariff regime, published yesterday, is designed to minimize "costs to business and consumers while protecting vulnerable industries" in the event of a No Deal Brexit. It applies to 87% of goods imported to the UK, of which bicycles are a part.
The British government is hoping that having 0% tariffs will mean cheaper prices for consumers and encourage them to keep spending, despite a forecasted drop in the value of the pound.
How will that affect the bike industry?
On the surface, it should mean that prices on bikes decrease for UK customers as the duties on imports will either stay the same (on EU products) or fall (on non-EU products) and this saving can be passed on to the consumer.
However, British cycling industry figures have voiced concerns that there is no guarantee how long the lower tariffs will last, that they already have stock that was bought under existing rates and that it may open the door to lower quality goods from countries that are currently subject to EU anti-dumping tariffs, such as China. There will also surely be further concerns from brands that manufacture in Britain and export to Europe. The goods they send to Europe would be subject to the EU's tariffs under a No Deal Brexit and prices will surely rise.
 | The UK will be leaving the EU on 31 October and we are working with businesses to ensure the UK is ready to trade from day one. "Our temporary tariff regime will support the UK economy as a whole, helping British businesses to trade and opening up opportunities for business to import the best goods from around the world at the best prices for British consumers. "The UK is a free-trading nation and British business is in a strong position to compete in an open, free-trading environment. |
eMTB tariffs are set to remain at 6%.
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The govt has not ruled out deportations for almost lifelong residents who may be unaware of the need to apply for residency. And permanent residency has been refused to many EU citizens already, despite working and paying tax in the UK for years. It's the reality of the situation. People think it can't be that mad, which is how they are getting away with. They are banking on people's ability to believe and disbelieve what they want.
The rest of the world apply standard rates when the trade agreements we have through Europe expire, I've no idea how much that will be, it'll vary by country.
So overall the UK may get cheap bike for a year which will make people happy and potentially help the public accept brexit, but the government will hate it as they lose a huge amount of tax. Then the government will raise taxes on everything coming in, but to what level???
Does this all apply to parts as well? More than likely.
Another question, why are regular bikes charged at 17%, E bikes at 6%?
It will appreciate. Mark my word
Will goods going in to and leaving northern Ireland be under EU law, UK law or something else? If you know that then the world would love to know.
Ok, I forgot the great deal that the endlessly wise and polite Mr Trump will offer them.
But the pound is still stronger than the turkish lira at least.
I can see Ireland, Wales and Scotland vote out and go back to EU.
The UK withdrawal doesn't just affect the UK
Everyones focusing too much on short term issues.
Any decent company already has multiple plans in place to cover a number of scenarios.
There's a lot of supposedly intelligent leaders panicking and getting their knickers in a twist rather than actually getting things sorted out. They're just going to have to compromise instead of saying No/Non/Nein all the bloody time.
A point of note: you mean to say "Northern Ireland", not "Ireland" which is already an independent, sovereign nation that is part of the EU. This incredibly important fact is lamentably missed by Brexit supporters and the British media-at-large.
So I am generally tired of folks taking high intellectual ground. Because when 50%+ citizens vote for folks you call morons, then somewhere, somehow, you are off. It is irrelevant whether you are right or wrong, when you reject inhabitants of reality you live in. Yes you may have an impressive, catching lecture based on hard data on how bad will it be when the bus you and others sit in will fall off the cliff if it keeps driving at it. But if you won’t take time to research how to address people on this bus who can change direction, and you will put your self above their leader who obviously wants everybody dead, then you will drive off that fkng cliff...
Having a different opinion or goal in life to you is not a sign of intelligence or lack of.
There have been massive untruths on both sides of the debate(s), so that dangerous opinion is owned across the board.
The mere fact that so few are actually able to have a reasoned political discussion without spewing their shit is proof of that
And no, the untruths are in no way equivalent on both sides. This is the kind of BS that sees mindless rabble rousers given equal or superior air time than people with deep experience of the issues at hand.
I haven’t even mentioned which way i voted (it was remain by the way) and you’ve spouted vitriol towards me.
The more this saga continues the more i can’t wait for the uk to leave. The way everyone (especially in mainland europe) is behaving makes me wish i voted the other way so the majority was higher.
I would have loved to be working in France, but because the French do not follow EU regulations I don’t/can’t. Why would i vote for that continue when member states actively break the ‘rules’?!
(The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince his followers that his detractors were going after them and not him.)
Meanwhile they talk of riots if the Brexit heist fails. Don't let them do this to you.
Wow, I'm feeling all Evangelical here. But it's not bullshit.
This is the way they work. They’re so convinced they’re right that they have some kind of moral justification for literally saying anything. It usually starts with personal insults before even discussing the issue. And then they wonder why Western Europe is turning to the right.
If only the soy boy, traitorous, remainer scumbags could be walled up inside the multi diversity hell that is London. Maybe after they’ve festered in their utopian shit silo for a few years they’ll realise something’s are more important than money.
And the UK pays 15.5 billion per year for the privilege. Oh and to keep countless old, pointless twats, in Brussels employed in the gravy train project.
I am fasciated how engaged you are in others peoples sht. How are your neighbors? Have you organized their living room yet? You are quite zealoty for someone who doesn't like Gwin talking about God
Also, the idiots (Bannon and his I'll) who have told you that foreigners and migrants are the enemy are colluding with foreigners in front of your eyes while throwing chaff in the wind for you to chase.
Forget the emotive arguments, which come from the heart rather then f*cking Breitbart and Infowars (come on, you love that shit, it's easy to tell), Boris's own government admit Brexit is going to damage the country and every mechanism that keeps it humming along. What they won't tell you is that they have the interests of some very shady people in mind. But you've picked your side so I could be talking Japanese and it wouldn't make a bit of difference.
The EU isn't perfect, but it's the best way of staving off the wolves. Why do you think Russia wants to weaken the EU? Because it's a solid and powerful block that he sees as being threatening to his kleptocracy. You're choosing the side of a psychopathic ex-KGB boss who is gaslighting the world to the point of swaying popular opinion and murdering with impunity in his own country and abroad, including in the UK. But also the side of a guy mile Trump who has just done the unthinkable in Syria to shore up his financial interests in the land of Erdogan.
The sad thing is that I'm wasting my time engaging, because all I will get is accusations of personal insults, when that is far from the reality. These people are f*cking all of us, but most of all those who put their trust in them.
To everyone complaining about politics or Brexit getting a mention on Pinkbike:
The bike industry was always going to be forced to change with this happening. Wouldn't you like to know how it may effect you or your local shop? It could force shops out of business and people out of jobs. You trying to be oblivious to this fact won't help the situation at all. Grow up.
And if you REALLY can't handle reading it - you know you don't have to read everything that is posted on the internet right?
Every £10 we spend on direct imported goods, like petrol that's bought in $, £1.50 is lost to inflation thanks to brexit
Overall inflation has taken ~£70bn out of the economy according to governments own figures, and inflation will always hit those at the bottom hardest.
If we crash out without a deal the £ will only fall further
And this is terrible for Orange & others who will face increased import costs for aluminium etc, but have cheaper foreign competition! (Same for farming & rest of manufacturing- compensation schemes will cost £bns)
On top of that £1tn! in assets has left the UK financial markets, that's about 1% of tax take lost for the government for good.
And brexit itself is costing £billions, biggest increase in civil servants since the war & 1000s more customs agents to deal with all the extra red tape we are creating.
All of this is already many times our EU membership costs
The brexiteer MPs made a series of endless promises about brexit, all have proved to be wrong
When people say they don't know what brexit will bring in the future they are right, but the costs already are immense and even the most optimistic predictions show us to be poorer and with less influence.
No country has ever voted to increase costs & barriers between its largest trading partner and tear up all its existing trade agreements.
The government is having to stockpile food & medicines, in peacetime
I work in a cancer research lab and know that the NHS can't guarantee that they'll be able to maintain treatment, diabetics are currently having insulin prescriptions halved.
This is madness, poll after poll has shown the country no longer wants Brexit, but a clique of hard right MPs are looking to force it through anyway, Johnson already been found guilty of lying to the queen ????
Why anyone still thinks Brexit is a good idea is beyond me.
This really isn't the general feeling here.
How did the UK function before the EU? How do countries like Australia and Japan survive?
Dear oh dear man pull yourself together.
How did the UK function before the EU - the world has changed since the 70s. That's like saying surely international businesses functioned before the internet/telecommunications, yes they did, but if you tried to run one on that model now you'd be outpaced by every other player.
The truth is nobody knows if it will be better or worse for the UK economy in the long term. You can either approach it positively or buy into the fear.
Good luck.
Scotland got lied to and shafted, no way round it.
OH and most people I know would f*cking LOVE the English to f*ck us off. England going independent from the UK would actually go a long way to solving this shite.
Large federations inevitably pass legislation which displeases huge amounts of people. Why would Scots want to be told what to do by English politicians 500 miles away? Why would Taiwanese want to be dictated to by Xi Jinping, an unelected president from another country who has never set foot on their island? Of course people in California don't want the orange baby telling them what they can and can't do. One possible answer is to make smaller countries.
And scroungers yeah look where your water electricity and meat come from!
Don't believe the hype you need us more than we need you.
Bring on that referendum the sooner the better.
Plucky Scots demanding freedom from the oppressive English: stand up and applaud!
Small minded little Englanders wanting to leave the EU: Racists, the lot of them! Boo!
So I read again that the causes of a voting majority of people to leave the European Union were false promises, for example, millions to the NHS and simply people being racist. There was a voting contingency in all of this that nobody within the Remain campaign seemed neither interested, unaware or simply not bothered to address. It appeared to me that this traditionally Labour voting section of the community was assumed to vote to remain in the EU because they would blindly follow the way their political party and/or trade union wished them to vote.
This is the portion of society that generally works long unsociable hours in low pay positions in which the most of us would not even contemplate, they dont have the luxury of a profession let alone a vocation, their labour is classed as unskilled yet ironically many professionals would be incapable of it, the unskilled rise out of their bed, the aches and pains of repetitive labour reminds them of the days, months and years ahead of them but they have to press on, rent, electricity, gas, food and the many other bills have to be paid.
Some have worked in industries where at one point their skills were valued and rewarded, not handsomely, but adequately, then it happened.
The Labour government at the time thought it would be beneficial for this country to be an early adopter of free movement along with two other countries within the EU, they thought it would create a wealth for this country and in part it did, but the cost for the unskilled was to put it frankly, unfair, fierce competition from a motivated foreign workforce (mainly from poor pay EU countries which explains the motivation) for their lower paid jobs, their lower cost housing, their local schooling and local healthcare due to disproportionate numbers arriving in these areas, those sort of numbers did not arrive in the mid/higher jobs market nor the mid/higher cost housing areas.
The Press appeared to single out people usually from poorer white communities, looking for comments from a young disadvantaged teen struggling to get work which implied racism or sounded racist which is more born from being maybe a little bit less inarticulate than plain old racism, this was debunked in a way when the results of the referendum were broken down, many of the heavily Asian communities in the Midlands and Yorkshire also voted leave but whatever damage the press intended to do had already been done by then.
Remain supporters did not ask, why does this section of society have this point of view? They just pushed out the racism/uneducated/geriatric rhetoric and it appeared none of the people in the paygrades above the unskilled were really that interested in what they had to say, all they saw was things may become more difficult if you fancy going somewhere in Europe, roaming charges, or prices of something going up, they had their like minded social media groups and stuck to them, they saw that they had a really reliable window cleaner, car washer, gardener, etc and the unskilled could not possibly affect the vote but they did.
The cause for this vote to me was disproportionate affectation in the poorer areas. The mistake was assuming that they had nothing of use to say when if the better educated/more fortunate had, just for a second, taken off their PC correctness headphones they maybe would have heard the social imbalances that have been magnified due to the disproportionate affectation, that these people are actually concerned about rapid change and alienation within what was not long ago their own community, a 45+ hours a week on nightshift at minimum wage is not uncommon these days in some areas and shift allowance has basically disappeared, many positions are offered by agencies as ongoing work with no true job security, because employers know there is a proliferation of motivated non unionised labour from the EU, the evidence is there on any jobsite. Would Remain supporters have voted to remain if there had been a massive influx in English speaking office/professional workers willing to work longer hours for the same or in some instances less money, competing for the same housing, schoolplaces, healthcare etc.
To be classed as racist and unwelcoming is a total injustice when many of the people posting these accusations will not have been disproportionaly affected and frankly would have no way of knowing what it is like to be in the unskilled's position. The unskilled work, live and socialise amongst people from all over the world, quite possibly having a more diverse social and cultural education than most people in the payscales above could ever dream of, but because they dont have a real voice which is actually listened to, who would ever know...?
What is BJs answer? Even lower tariffs. It will drive this system even further. With a block the size of the EU we have the chance to challenge other countries, by demanding social and environmental standards equal to ours so that the competition is fair. This is what we need to achieve. This will be much harder for the UK alone and not the intention of BJ. As an example, the 2 year warranty implemented by the EU has had a ripple effect cross the globe because many manufacturers did not want a two-tire production line. Will they do the same, if the market is only a 10th of the size? Doubt it.
£13bn to Scotland
£14bn to Wales
£10bn to NI
Scotland would be in a particularly bad situation due to their huge deficit.
England would be £37bn better off each year.
And the government should work double time to bring manufacturing jobs back to this country. Give all those people working in Carphone Warehouse, Costa Coffee and McDonald's real jobs they can be proud of. And we need more houses, because it's supply and demand and the house prices are criminal at the moment. My dad said his first house cost him three years' salary. My house is about ten years' salary, and it's not even made of real stone! Too few houses, too many buyers. The prices nowadays are insane. What else? Put criminals to work on the roads and make them earn their keep in prison. £37543 a year is the average cost per prisoner per year in the UK. That's a lot of taxpayers' money going to waste right there. And I'm not talking about chaining them up or anything inhumane. Just get them to do some work to help repay their debt to society.
@jaame: your mate is part of the problem for employing illegal immigrants !
Critics attack the EU for demanding that David Cameron pays a £1.7 billion bill despite an official audit failing to give a clean bill of health to more than £100 billion of Brussels spending " Daily telegraph online. The list of such examples is endless, but I think facts and statistics can be bent around either way, just look at the debt per capita in Europe, look at the unemployment rates in Europe and then tell me the E.U is a shining example.I know I speak in very selfish terms for the prospects and futures of my kids, but that's my main concern in life, looking after my family.
Additionally, we have an increase in the global population and one major issue in the long run will be to find work for all the people that are on the planet. So competition for jobs will increase. The problem though at the moment is not that there are not enough jobs, it’s that many of us do not want to work for the money that is offered. It’s not that immigrants come and steal jobs. They might apply to jobs with lower wages, but employees do not offer the job only to immigrants or offer the job at a lower pay. If companies employ people illegally, then the system is the problem and won’t change with leaving.
I am sure the UK will be fine, but it is a shame that everyone blames the EU for self inflicted issues. And I believe together we are stronger.
To make this happen, they intertwined their economy's and made all sorts of international agreements further relying on each other. That way, an attack on another nation was an attack on their own economy and was basicly suicide. The progress made in all EU nations the last 50 years shows the succes of the concept.
The fact that the UK now thinks they are better of alone in facing all the global challenges (climate & migration it brings), shows to me they -or at least a part of them- have forgotten history. A real shame.
Lol that’s why they voted leave you fool
I think the problem is the vote was performed on a hypothetical question to which no one knew the consequences (and I mean no one, on either side) and frankly, a lot of people don't care. They just want to leave, to hell with the consequences.
They are people too. Low IQ, low social status, racist, nostalgic, educated, liberal, intelligent, it doesn't matter. One person, one vote. Leave won. The vote has to be honoured.
There should never have been a referendum. That was a major political blunder. Huge.
They say with motorcycles, never race a bike you can't afford to crash. Well that's exactly what David Cameron did, and he crashed it. Now the whole thing is f*cked.
What a mess!
Second the leave campaign never had a plan beyond leaving, leave meaning different things to different leavers. Some voted to split the UK from EU economic rules, some voted to make the foreign people go away, some voted based on a nostalgic vision of 'the way things used to be,' now they're all fighting over what they actually voted for.
Lastly (and this one's a biggy) the leave side cheated. First they conducted secret, illegal surveillance on millions of people through Facebook, then they hijacked real people's accounts and used them to peddle fake news based on that surveillance data. They also pooled their funding between multiple campaigns to circumvent the UK's political spending limits. To say the nothing of the constant public branding of remain campaigners as traitors, enemies of democracy, foreign sympathisers and so on.
To a lot of people a line has been crossed and it's no longer about the vote, it's a battle of ideologies that will be fought to the end. Even if we do leave the EU it won't be over, the remain side will start campaigning to re-join on the spot.
Anyone who says it was a democratic decision to leave has to understand that what's happening now is democratic. There is no majority to leave in a particular way, that's a fact or it would have happened. It should never have been 50% wins vote on a question that has so many options as to how you do it.
Democracy and the checks and balances within it, are what's stopping any change from happening. If there was a clear path, sound calculations and a defined goal it would stand a chance.
But literally everything has been a lie:
£350m a week for the NHS.
Stopping immigration.
Easiest trade deal in history.
Economy will boom.
Refusal to produce impact assessments.
Prorogation and lying to the Queen and people.
One year of tax cuts to make people think things are great, then the pain will hit.
The only way this can be pushed through its by circumventing laws and procedure for a goal no one even knows what it is, unless you are one of the chosen few, literally maybe 20 people including Johnson and his backers including multi billionaire media moguls, hedge fund owners and people like Lynton Crosby.
It's democracy that's stopping Brexit, Brexit will not bring democracy.
This whole brexit horror show should never have happened , David Cameron dropped the biggest clanger EVER !
I’d be surprised if you could find two Leave voters who could agree on exactly what their vision for the U.K. out of Europe looked like. Say what you like about Remain voters, but at least by voting for the status quo they knew exactly what they were choosing.
Im neither for nor against. Its my stance that I make ‘informed decisions’. And as a citizen of GB, I have not been ‘informed’. The whole thing is all a bit boring now and most people I know stopped giving a crap ages ago.
Oh hang on...
Back before the Brexit vote in 2016, you'd get £1.48 for every one USD.
So my local bike shop importing a USD$4,000 bike from the USA would pay an extra 17% Import Duty...total USD$4,680. Back then at the £1.48 exchange rate, that would equal £3,162.
But if there's a Hard Brexit and the Import Duty is removed, then at today's exchange rate, £1.22, you'd pay £3,278.
But most economists reckon the GBP will collapse in a Hard Brexit.
So even a modest decline down to £1.11 means that bike will cost you £3,604.
Who benefits here? Not us buying the bike. Not the bike shop who is now paying more to get the same bike. Not the US bike distributor because the USD price hasn't changed. Not the EU, there's no Import Duty anymore.
Answer...no one!
Freedom isn’t free
Hard to feel sorry for you if either voted "the wrong way" or couldn't be bothered to vote.
Just move to Queenstown NZ. Crisis averted.
The majority of voters did vote to ‘leave’ but despite what the media and more ‘extreme’ side of the leave campaign and representatives may state, most people did not vote for 3 years of chaos and division leading to a situation where a deal is not found and the economy is trashed - no ‘project fear’ the current governments figures.
Compromise is out of the window now here in the UK, Brexit is a cult / religion and we have lost sight of the fact this is was all done to make things better in the UK, not ‘just leave’...
nope, only one quarter of the populace
The sad thing is if they held the election again it would probably swing the other way due to the number of older folk who have sadly passed on between the election and now. Either way I don't think they should have actioned Brexit on such a minority percentage difference, are they going to hold the election again in 3 years when it swings back the other way, and then again 3 years after that? It's a joke.
I run a business and 30% of our T/O go to Europe, I bet I can write that off now, home grown demand might pick up but as the market place is much smaller it will not make up for the difference.
We’ll see where the economy goes. Many economists say the EU is going down the shitter regardless of Brexit.
Don’t forget, the leave vote is divided into “no deal” and “deal”, which makes “remain” the largest group. BJ is pushing an agenda, which was not voted for by a large margin.
This argument that you didn’t vote for members of the European Parliament is the same BS. It’s the same situation that a voter in Newcastle has very little influence, who is voted for in Cornwall. They are both a small part of the parliament and the UK government/Parlament has 1000 of bureaucrats.
So please, stop with the lies.
It's an exciting and slightly stressful time. We could end up in a better place or a worse place, and no one knows which it's going to be! No one knows. A lot of people obviously think they know, but they don't.
74 years of peace.
We can’t make our own laws? Like ruling on the proroguing of parliament?
Crippling of services? Analysis has shown immigration is not the cause of strain on the NHS for example, lack of funding and mismanagement is, it also showed that without immigration the NHS would be brought to its knees as we don’t have enough qualified nurses and doctors.
Try looking some things up rather than going on ‘feeling’?
1) When the UK ruled the world (allegedly) it did so at the expensive of millions of poorer people in the sub continent (see Empire).
2) The "glory days" the Baby Boomers want to take us back to dont exist any more. There is no one reason, one golden bullet or some fancy time machine that can un do the effects of globalisation, increased movement of people and technological automation.
3) Most of the claims "we dont build anything anymore" are largely because those jobs cannot be supported in an economy as advanced as ours (and yea, in convenient truth, despite the whole woah is me persona of the UK press we are still in the top 5-10% of every list of wealth, development, GDP, living standard etc). It is cheaper to get it built elsewhere, the globe (not just the UK) is a largely capitalist society and unless the other 7 billion of us all suddenly decide to throw the concept in the bin it aint gonna change. Suddenly cutting ties with our closest trading partners (which no deal will mean) is the political equivalent of holding your breath and stamping your feet because you arent getting your own way
4) Successive government have sought to blame the EU for issues that are actually of their own making, as its easier. Most of the problems people sight are actually due to direct of central government investment rather than the EU.
5) Everyone moans about immigration, poles coming and taking all our jobs etc. Do you really think when we have to become the global whore to offset loss of easy trade with the EU the likes of Indian and China arent going to request or require similar freedom of movement or migration benefits?
6) There is this really dangerous perception that we can do this because we won the f&&king war. Well yea we did, and fair play to the generation (most of which are now dead) that fought the good fight for us (as well as the thousands of Americans, French, Canadian, Indian, Australian etc etc that died helping us out). We are not at war anymore, the world has moved on and we are still banging on about it. The Lion will probably not roar, its spent way too long dining out on past victory and has become way too fat.
Appreciate I am wasting my breath here, I have tried to see things from the other side of the fence and the EU is by no means without fault. However, looking at the whole I can make the benefits stack up against the risk
leaving the EU's trade tarrifs isn't about selling joe blogs nuts an bolts to the U.S and/or China, seems like it's about allowing thier sub standard foods and products into the U.K as the Gov sell off the last of our public services like the Awesome and Great NHS.
Wtf? - the whole premise of the point is that some voted brexit to reduce immigration - read what you have just written man!
I am fully open to sit down and have someone convince me with rational evidence based arguments about the benefits of cutting loose. So long as it’s based on fact or at least has some credible source behind it
Sadly the whole leave narrative is propped up by Mr Gove saying people have grew tired of the views of experts, which (fundamentally) undermines the whole process of objective thought. There are much bigger and dangerous things working subtly behind the scenes in all of this about how people are being controlled and manipulated to benefit a few billionaires betting against the pound
I thought you meant people were already upset, and they will get more upset than they already are if there is extra-eu immigration.
I meant that the people who are upset already are the remainers, not the leavers. In the case of extra-eu immigration, they will probably be happy about it.
I admit, I didn't read your post very well. I was too quick to point the finger at the people who are getting upset at this particular time.
Your argument still stands though. They (we) all bury our heads and never really try to understand others' points of view. Not just in Brexit, but in life in general.
The majority of people are pretty self-centred. It's not that we are incapable of understanding alternative views. It's just that we aren't really interested in doing so. When it comes down to it, arguing about Brexit is like arguing about which is better - bananas or that other fruit that no one has tried yet that's just been discovered in the amazon, when everyone thought it was extinct. One of them we know what it looks like, how much it costs and what it does. The other one we know nothing about and some people think it's going to be a lot better than bananas. In reality, we can probably live off both. It will work itself out.
Everybody is upset, tribal and seemingly incapable of compromise or viewing or fact / reading, blinded by upset or need to ‘win’
But from a political point of view, I feel it is better to be a strong, large block that acts together to make changes for the good. (Before someone shouts, the vast majority of rulings in the EU went in UKs favour.) I fear that the UK will have very little leverage to negotiate any deals, given that it is standing with its back to the wall/cliff.
So it is not me personally who wants to bite into the hypothetical unknown fruit. Some people may want to do that. And if those people are in the majority, which in this case they are, then I will accept it. Even though I love bananas, I am also open to the possibility that there may be something else even better than bananas. People all over the world eat different things. It's not like bananas are the only fruit. I just hope that the hypothetical fruit does not turn out to be a durian.
@just... my point is not in the details about "facts and analysis" (and I use the term loosely). It's about one person, one vote. Respect for the outcome.
There should never have been a vote. The government should have never called a referendum, especially if it didn't intend to honour the outcome if it didn't go according to plan. That's my view on the whole affair. Cameron f*cked it when he made that referendum promise that got him elected, but if he didn't do that he maybe would have never been PM. I don't know the details because I wasn't here. I was also worried about my house and family getting bombed by the Communist Party of China as a result of the presidential election in Taiwan (which in my opinion is a bigger issue than Brexit from a humanitarian perspective). Why did I mention that? I guess to say that, there are a lot of people in the world in a much worse situation than a no deal Brexit. Literally millions of people are starving, displaced, eating tainted food, in danger of exploitation and famine, etc etc etc.
I've literally seen children as young as my own children sifting through garbage trying to find food, or something to sell to support their families.
The world is full of shit.
Then I moved back over here in July to find this fractured society, two tribes at each other's throats about a seemingly innocuous issue. It says more about the nature of men than we can ever articulate. On one hand I think society will take a long time to heal from this injury. On the other hand I believe as soon as Brexit is in the past, there will be something else that has the same effect, tribalising society and causing conflict. Always has been, always will be.
So no, I'm not in favour of Brexit, but I accept it.
A few months ago when the brexit political party launched there were representatives in my local high street yelling at anyone who disagreed with their views, or just didn't want to talk or take a leaflet. Such behaviour is entirely reprehensible, and cannot possibly represent any kind of progress.
I will complain in a free democracy and I will not lie down when the signing of article 50 was based on a disshonesty
I agree with you about some of those street publicity events. They do seem to be run by scum, for scum. Unfortunately for wider society, one scummy person still has one vote. Perhaps we should be asking ourselves why so many people turn out to be scumbags - and there are a lot of them here you have to admit.
I was coming back from Holland on a plane the other day (want to get all my travel done before all the planes fall out of the sky on 1st November) and was unfortunate enough to be seated near a man who was pretty much commenting on everything he saw or experienced on that plane, and swearing a lot. Yuk! When he walked into the cabin, the first thing he said was "Ugh! It f*cking stinks in here." But that man has one vote.
So, should we change the system to weight the voting, or rig the elections, or manipulate it in some other way like happens all over the world? Or should we try to educate the masses to not be c*nts? Both? Something else? I don't have the answers and sadly, I don't think anyone else has either.
Yup NZ is a basket case right now. Perfect case why feminist SJW women should never be allowed to lead
Not many people alive today realise how good they've got it. Everything has been handed to them on a plate for their entire lives. Me too. I've never had a day in my life when I didn't know whether or not there was going to be any food on the table. Even when I was trekking at Everest Base Camp I paid someone to feed me. Everyone's gone soft. So perhaps if we have it hard for a few years, our children will learn about hardship and grafting to put food on the table, which will give them a competitive advantage when they hit 30.
Your saying if brexit brings hardship to the point where the young don’t have sufficient food to eat it will be a good thing because they will be more competitive in the future?
Do you think about anything before you write it?
The current generation coming through education earn more, work more hours, drink less, do less drugs and have significantly less teenage pregnancies. They’re not perfect but neither is any generation. The reason crime is so high is because there isn’t any money for police.... that’s not the eu’s fault, it’s our old boys club government that feed us on lies and misinformation and don’t allocate money properly. We’re one of the richest countries in the world, of South American countries have better health care and can afford more police to fight serious crime, surely we can afford to more police to help fight our crimes and make it so we don’t need to start eating spam from time.
And by the way, you're means you are. Your means your.
Again, do you even think before you type? You said if or children have hardship that will make them more competitive in the future - many people live in hardship now, as in struggle to feed their families. Not everybody gets a waiter to accompany them on a middle class excursion to base camp to find themselves, they are already busy trying to make ends meet.
Thank you for the grammatical correction, I am replying to you on a phone but it really added to the topic in hand, very well done.
I don't want my kids to starve, I don't want a Chinese communist government. I did not say those things.
You inferred them. However, there is more than one way to skin a cat, everything is not black and white.
I'm not trying to argue the whys and wherefores of Brexit detail. I'm trying to say that a no-deal Brexit is not the end of the world. I could be wrong, but I have seemingly a lot more faith in the ingenuity and adaptability of humans than you have. People are not going to roll up and die in their homes if we don't get a deal. Some might, but if that's the case they probably would have done it anyway.
You've made your mind up about this and you're not interested in considering anything else. You are only capable of looking at it from your own perspective. I'm open to hearing people's arguments, and as a true liberal I accept and respect everyone's POV. Have you noticed how civil I have been with you? No name calling or rude personal comments?
About the grammar thing, I had to mention it because you've called me a few names and asked me if I think before I type. You also told me I have no idea. It's not very civil. It's actually quite condescending. That's why I found it ironic that such a supercilious individual doesn't know the difference between your and you're. If it makes you feel any better, a lot of people make the same mistake, so you're not alone at least.
You sum up pretty much every leave voter.
But what worries me is not the immediate result, but rather what it means on the higher level. Current generations don't remember the war, don't understand that the unification was brought about to make the war less likely in the future. And one of the main facilitators for war is particularism. The EU is a largely unprecedented mind blowing effort of people who saw what particularisms and divisions can bring.
I'm worried that people no longer understand why this huge effort happened. Even in my country, where you still see memories of war pretty much everywhere. People use this to build hate, because it's easier.
I'm sure the UK will survive somehow, but I'm worried we're losing something much bigger and extremely important in the process.
Does this balance out the negatives of leaving with a No Deal:
A decade or more of negative/stagnent growth in GDP and wages.
Medical supply shortages.
Food shortages.
More expensive holidays abroad.
The dilution/breakup of the NHS (Trump is demanding this as part of any US trade deal).
A hard border in Ireland, which breaks the Good Friday Agreement and could lead to a return to 'The Troubles'.
In basic terms we'll be poorer, have limited food, medical supplies (insulin and cancer drugs are the main issues) and possibly be at war with one of our neighbours (officially or unofficially with the IRA).
Bikes may be cheaper but we won't be able to afford them.
Because immurgrunts
If that’s the consequence of reduced mass immigration I don’t think you’ll win many arguments with the majority of English.
Can I get an anchor please?
Actually the vote to leave was the largest democratic vote in English history. Those racist dossers sure were motivated to vote. I bet you if there was another vote now it would be a landslide, just like a general election would be in favour of Boris.
Maybe if the UK labour market wasn’t flooded with migrants willing to work for peanuts the NHS would have to pay wages that might get these dossers off the sofa? Also if you believe the science on AI job replacement the UK would cut all immigration because in 10 years there are going to be millions unemployed.
So, the reason you are willing to commit to economic insecurity (putting it mildly - this is using the current governments own reports) is to lower immigration?
Though I will agree unchecked movement can cause certain economic issues in its own right, I hope you have a good plan for how to replace many of these immigrants in the work place that doesn’t involve taking people from non EU countries in replacement? (That’s a plan btw, what do you think a FTA with non EU countries will come with?)
Are you seriously suggesting that there are doctors and nurses sitting on their arses and not working because the wages are too low?
See my last paragraph above to answer your question. Maybe look at Japan for an example. Close to zero immigration and miraculously a functioning economy and a very low crime rate.
And define ‘mass immigration’ and how brexit will stop what you are seeing?
Our government (yes the current one) have powers within the EU to restrict immigration - have you looked this up? Other EU countries operate a worker registration system, if the person doesn’t find work within 3 months or are self sufficient they cannot stay.
The conservative government could have also looked more closely into the labour market and laws, preventing cash employment and paying less than minimum wage. They could have also looked into multi person occupancy.
None of this was done, all while austerity took place and you think that the EU shoulder the blame for that? We need to look in the mirror.
Japan? The country with 20 odd years of economic stagnation? Even in the last 10 years their economy has only grown a tiny amount. They face huge issues with their aging workforce. You know what might help fix that? Immigration...
"and a very low crime rate."
What's your point? Are you blaming immigration for the crime? You know the UKs crime rate has being falling since 1995 and are now even lower than they were in the 1980s.
Yes I’m aware of the current situation regarding immigration. People were clearly sick of nothing being done by countless corrupt governments flooding the country with cheap foreign labour. Brexit was clearly a reaction to that as was the election of Trump.
You have unraveled your own argument. All feeling, no fact.
speaking from experience not many of the people I know are racist but, a few are.. and guess how they voted...........?
speaking from experience, ALL of the migrants in my work place (an Alu foundry) are hard working. ALL of the dossers are white engish.... an guess how they voted
I don't know wether to LOL or face palm at this...............
As a staunch remain voter I still accept leave won, but I don’t accept no deal as being an acceptable scenario, the leave.eu leaders that head the conservative government don’t (or at least are on record a saying they didn’t) think it’s acceptable, their figures show it isn’t acceptable, even Farage didn’t think it was acceptable.
What does brexit have to do with visiting other countries?
Working in / living in another country does not fall under the term ‘visit’ unless you want to warp the word to strengthen your own misguided position?
There is only one country in the world where anyone can go and work without a visa, and that's America.
I will not honer the vote
one point some thing percent is not a majority,
one point something percent in NON legally binding referendum is just a gauge of public opinion and nothing more
in that non legally binding gauge of public opinion roughly two thirds of the populace voted meaning that roughly one quarter of the populace voted leave....
not a majority in any way and not "the will of the people"
I work as a quality engineer in an alu foundry an it's part of my job to speak to customers and suppliers on the daily. They are having the same brexshit concerns that our company has and also the same dwindling orderbooks that our company has. We used to go through around 100tonnes of Alu a month an since brexshit I've seen that go down to around 50 tonnes an now down to around 25-30 tonnes per month.
We did very well to make it through the 2008 crash, we even picked up a lot of work from other foundry's that closed but, since the referendum. Work is getting slower an slower an slower. So you can see where my concerns, opinions and experience is based in. The REAL world not project fear.
I will not ever believe that 1/4 is a majority over 3/4 (of a populace)
I will never believe that brexshit is the will of the people
I will never "respect" the result of a non legally biding referendum that carried out before our gov had any fkng clue what leaving the EU really meant, in that some people voted on false issues an fake news
I belive what I see around me in the real world
I'm guessing by your posts you are a Brit in Canada, in which case you know all about visas - so I don't really get your meaning. I was simply replying to someone else's post about Wales and Scotland.
@nojzilla .put the shoe on the other foot. Remain won by 2%. If Farage and all the rest were still going on about how they want a people's vote three years later would you stand with them and say it wasn't a majority? Of course not! Because you would have got what you wanted. I am literally laughing as I type this. I put it to you that you would have moved on with your life, and my guess is the leave voters would have also moved on with their lives too. One thing about being old is they tend to behave more like adults - and that means accepting it when you lose.
As for your point to nojzilla - Farage said himself that if the vote went 52/48% then there would be 'unfinished business'.
Im not sure the economic / societal stability of a nation is particularly a laughing matter and do you really expect people to 'move on with their lives' when Brexit hasn't actually come to any form of conclusion - you want him to just ignore what is happening and 'move on with life, even when the government that is pushing for a no deal has come to its own conclusion that it will be bad for the country?
farage himself said that if the result isn't an overwhelming majority there should be another referendum. Guess what his bias would've been.........................
well one point something percent isn't overwhelming in any ones standard, so... another referendum yes? by farage's own words......? nah didn't think so
playing the 'grown up adults' card is foolish unless your willing to live up to that your self
and as for 'win or loose' a referendum is not a football match,it's not "we scored one more than you so we win YAY" it is a NON legally binding gauge of public opinion. WE are all on the same side an ultimately we all loose in a failing economy
Unfortunately I believe that now the vote has happened it must be honoured, because that is what's right.
Common sense at some point must prevail, can we seriously debase the whole situation to now leaving without a deal as being the only course of action, a sensible, compromise Brexit deal is what is logically required to get this done so we can move on, its surely the only way - I just don't know if the people who have the ability to make that happen have the desire to do so, everybody just wants to 'win' now, no compromise.
It's now a case of leave without a deal, and honour the vote; or cancel the whole thing and betray the (tiny) majority.
It's an absolute f*cking mess that should never have come to pass. Politicians. They can't be trusted. Much as I dislike the Chinese Communist Party, and don' trust them, at least they are always playing the long game because they don't have to worry about getting reelected. In terms of the population as a whole, that's mostly good.
So in short, leave won, remain lost so leave at any cost because its the will of the people/ 'betrayal', politicians are all liars dont trust them to do anything and your way of resolving the whole situation; Chinese communism. Brilliant.
Your a racist. And your "facts " are Total fantasy.
I did not say that Chinese communism is a system I like. In fact, I think I said the opposite. My point is that politicians in China are not seeking re-election. In the UK, they are seeking re-election. That quest for re-election compromises their actions. Chinese politicians are unelected, and can therefore get on with the business at hand. Often the business at hand is a dirty business, yes. The point stands. They are not shackled by the four or five year cycles of election and re-election.
It's a big part of why China is winning at the moment, in my opinion.
There is too much back biting in a multi party system. That is one thing that's good about a one party system. Of course, there's a lot that's bad about it, too.
That ancestry that built the modern world, ended slavery and fought a global war against fascism.
Higher cultures will always exploit lower cultures. Humans wouldn’t have evolved without it. There are currently more slaves in Africa than anywhere else on the planet. Maybe you should pay them a visit and tell them how guilty they’re going to feel in the future.
You have unraveled your own argument. All feeling, no fact.
I already explained, people were powerless to the influx of mass immigration from the Blair years onwards. All political parties capable of winning an election were fully behind the continued influx of cheap foreign labour and more debt slaves for the banks. Thankfully a majority of public who can see through it, and the soft conditioning of the media that called anyone against it a racist, used the vote to leave the EU (the first time a vote with actual consequences had been given to the public) to say f*ck you to the government(s).
Not to mention the ambitions of the EU superstate and it’s gravy train of pointless career bureaucrats.
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/11315197/Taxpayers-face-bill-for-36bn-EU-pensions-time-bomb.html
Screw these narcissistic bureaucrat parasites and their superstate agenda. The whole thing will collapse within a couple years the UK leaving.
I take it you see all of the influx of cheap foreign labour as being from the EU then? How will you feel if there are deals with 3rd countries following Brexit that include movement of people - its very likely that it will - your own leave government has said so - that's cheap labour from places like India, China, etc.
Or are you one of the people that are concerned wit immigration that wrongly believe Brexit will also reduce the amount of certain minorities in this country not in the group of EU migrants?
Fantastic, you have said a f*ck you to the government, now men of the people like Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson, Dominic Cummings, Jacob Rees-mogg, Aaron Banks and Michael Gove can stand in your corner and create a UK better served to you and the people that feel the same way..... anything sound a little odd there? I mean there are only a few hedge funds, castles, billions of pounds and titles between them, they are just like you and they are definitely out for your best interests.
So in short, I told the government f*ck You and in the process f*cked myself, genius.
With it there too. The EU is actually very efficient in number of people it needs to run. Consider all the people that are saved in all of the Union. We are 500 million. For that, the bureaucrat number is super small.
End of the day all politics is corrupt, the people can't change that. There's far more important things in live to worry about than all this rubbish.
How does this work alongside WTO trade rules? Does this mean the government is essentially subsidising the economy by paying the tariffs for business?
Any who, here's Boris to save the day.
English INDEPENDENCE - VOTE YES!
Nobody is allowed to complain of expensive bikes from asia, Canada, or the USA after I ready that.
Remember, it’s the conservative government, led by the leaders of the leave.eu (your hero’s Boris and Michael) campaign that have produced the recent figures showing how damaging no deal will be, but don’t let that get in the way of the fact ‘you won’! - lets just hope you can remember what you have ‘won’ if we do go to a no deal exit.