Britain to Remove Tariffs on Non-EU Bicycles in Event of No-Deal Brexit

Oct 9, 2019
by James Smurthwaite  

The British Government has confirmed that bicycles entering the UK will get 0% tariffs for up to 12 months following a No Deal Brexit. Currently bicycles are free to import from other EU countries to the UK, however, bikes coming into the UK from outside the EU are subject to a 17% duty.

A No Deal Brexit would occur if the UK cannot come to an agreement about the "divorce" process with the EU. Overnight, the UK would leave the single market and customs union - arrangements designed to help trade between EU members by eliminating checks and tariffs. The UK is currently planning to leave the EU on October 31, however UK law says that an extension until January must be sought if a Deal cannot be struck with the EU before then. However, if the EU refuses to grant an extension, the UK will "crash out" with a No Deal at the end of the month. There is also another chance of No Deal happening in January if the extension is granted.

The Government's temporary tariff regime, published yesterday, is designed to minimize "costs to business and consumers while protecting vulnerable industries" in the event of a No Deal Brexit. It applies to 87% of goods imported to the UK, of which bicycles are a part.
The British government is hoping that having 0% tariffs will mean cheaper prices for consumers and encourage them to keep spending, despite a forecasted drop in the value of the pound.

How will that affect the bike industry?

On the surface, it should mean that prices on bikes decrease for UK customers as the duties on imports will either stay the same (on EU products) or fall (on non-EU products) and this saving can be passed on to the consumer.

However, British cycling industry figures have voiced concerns that there is no guarantee how long the lower tariffs will last, that they already have stock that was bought under existing rates and that it may open the door to lower quality goods from countries that are currently subject to EU anti-dumping tariffs, such as China. There will also surely be further concerns from brands that manufacture in Britain and export to Europe. The goods they send to Europe would be subject to the EU's tariffs under a No Deal Brexit and prices will surely rise.

bigquotesThe UK will be leaving the EU on 31 October and we are working with businesses to ensure the UK is ready to trade from day one.

"Our temporary tariff regime will support the UK economy as a whole, helping British businesses to trade and opening up opportunities for business to import the best goods from around the world at the best prices for British consumers.

"The UK is a free-trading nation and British business is in a strong position to compete in an open, free-trading environment.
Connor Burns, Trade Policy Minister

eMTB tariffs are set to remain at 6%.

Regions in Article
United Kingdom

Posted In:
Industry News


  • 133 3
 I thought everyone in the UK rode orange bikes?
  • 31 0
 Nah you forgot all the steel bike makes
  • 26 3
 @Lookinforit: most of which are made in Taiwan
  • 68 0
 Naaaah we ride all kinds of coloured bikes Razz
  • 35 0
 Mainly Carreras if we're honest.
  • 4 14
flag bowski123 (Oct 10, 2019 at 0:15) (Below Threshold)
 im uk ive never owned one. always had specialized apart from dj bikes I has a Saracen and now an identity.
  • 8 1
 @djm35: and voodoo's
  • 20 0
 @fatduke: beat me to it...and we can all wheelie the length of any high street.
  • 13 0
 @terribleone1982: maybe I need to get one then! Will it help if I get a tracksuit as well from JD next door to Halfords?
  • 7 0
 @johne71: knock off henleys will save you from gravel rash and make sure you don't have any lights on when it's dark.
  • 9 2
 for some reason, the whole of Scotland has owned a Cube AIM at some point. Personally I've had 3.
  • 4 0
 My third MTB in the 80s was an Orange, when it cracked I got the local car garage to braze it back up for the price of a beer. Then I stripped the paint off and found a muddy fox bear paw logo on the seat tube! So technically I've only owned a re-badged Muddy Fox. (I still put Orange decals back on after the respray.)
  • 4 0
 There are a few White bikes around too I hear, er, Whyte bikes...
  • 2 0
 Happy Halloween
  • 9 1
 @endlessblockades: It's been a 3-year horror show. If the no-idea brexit happens, bike prices will be a f*cking minor distraction to say the least.
  • 9 0
 @djm35: I was walking through a train station with my cannondale and some pikey said ‘nice carrera mate’. Took me three days to get over it..
  • 2 0
 @johne71: single-handedly keeping the British economy alive!
  • 1 1
 @BenPea: way to fearmonger
  • 1 0
 @sumarongi: Don't go there, seriously.
  • 1 0
 @BenPea: why not
  • 3 0
 @bowski123: I can't speak for @benpea but for me and my expat family in Germany it's already costing time and money. Filling out residents applications, changing to German driving licenses, each one requires time off work and visits to local government offices. It's one massive unorganised shit show.
  • 2 0
 @bowski123: read the British government's own reports on what a chaotic Brexit could do, if they haven't suppressed it yet. The pharmaceutical supply chain could be f*cked, for starters.
  • 2 0
 @bowski123: major state organisations like the NHS, police, the CBI are all waving massive red flags about what this is going to do. Talk of scare mongering does f*ck all to mitigate the risks faced.
The govt has not ruled out deportations for almost lifelong residents who may be unaware of the need to apply for residency. And permanent residency has been refused to many EU citizens already, despite working and paying tax in the UK for years. It's the reality of the situation. People think it can't be that mad, which is how they are getting away with. They are banking on people's ability to believe and disbelieve what they want.
  • 1 0
 @nojzilla: which arent subject to anti dumping
  • 126 12
 This is assuming we all have jobs an income to buy bikes........
  • 30 5
 I envy you not! Good luck!
  • 21 5
 @likehell: cheers, we're gonna need it
  • 35 3
 Well I've cancelled my trip to Austria on the 31st because I don't want to be in it when the plane falls out of the sky!
  • 26 2
 This is also assuming that our currency will be worth something if no deal happens.
  • 18 0
 At least you'll be able to buy a 100% original Finarello Dogmo in your local bike shop
  • 17 5
 On 1st November, if we're no longer a member of the EU, all mountain bike wheels will instantly transform from circles to squares. All major economical forecasts have agreed
  • 11 2
 My paypal account is terrified... that’s gonna be one fat Christmas on CRC...
  • 4 1
 @WAKIdesigns: CRC is registered in England but still located in northern Ireland I believe. So we may have no duties applied to bikes coming in, but Europe will apply them when ship from the UK to Europe. Probably around a10% rate for exports to Europe?

The rest of the world apply standard rates when the trade agreements we have through Europe expire, I've no idea how much that will be, it'll vary by country.

So overall the UK may get cheap bike for a year which will make people happy and potentially help the public accept brexit, but the government will hate it as they lose a huge amount of tax. Then the government will raise taxes on everything coming in, but to what level???

Does this all apply to parts as well? More than likely.

Another question, why are regular bikes charged at 17%, E bikes at 6%?
  • 6 0
 @WAKIdesigns: This! I'm saving my CRC orders until November, anticipating a huge devaluation in the British Pound, and a huge increase in my purchasing power.
  • 5 0
 @neons97: only to have the government here tax the beejesus out if it on arrival...........
  • 6 1
 @bainbridge: most crc shit gets delivered from England now. Plus NI is uk. Either way we are f*cked. Glad I registered to live in Finland if it gets real bad.
  • 1 3

It will appreciate. Mark my word
  • 8 2
 @likehell: good luck to you too, you guys are gonna be carrying the rest of Europe alone now Razz
  • 2 2
 @sumarongi: Of course it will. It will likely depreciate even more first though. Mark my word. What you can't say is when it will recover, by how much and how much damage will be done in the meantime.
  • 2 0
 @Blackers: our taxes could be worse. Just be thankful we don’t live in the other colony. Australians get murked on imports.
  • 2 0
 @bainbridge: I'm not an expert on soon to be former EU states, but I'm gonna go out on a limb and say northern Ireland is in the UK. For now.
  • 2 0
 @acali: that's very true, however that's what's causing a lot of the trouble....... The Irish backstop

Will goods going in to and leaving northern Ireland be under EU law, UK law or something else? If you know that then the world would love to know.
  • 60 9
 This will pale in significance once the GBP drops it’s pants and is rogered by every other currency out there post-Brexit
  • 46 53
flag jclnv (Oct 9, 2019 at 23:12) (Below Threshold)
 Will be a short term blip and an overall relative increase as the EU blunders into a recession.
  • 38 9
 @jclnv: ahaha yeah, and GB is flourishing lol.. they are already there!
Ok, I forgot the great deal that the endlessly wise and polite Mr Trump will offer them.

But the pound is still stronger than the turkish lira at least.

I can see Ireland, Wales and Scotland vote out and go back to EU.
  • 5 0
 Too late. 1.4 -> 1.1 for the euro. Officially rogered here.
  • 9 13
flag Jamminator (Oct 10, 2019 at 0:11) (Below Threshold)
 @jclnv: UK economy is going down the pipes either way, with or without Brexit. They've relied too heavily on neighboring EU countries and Asia for the last 30 years. This is just the sad part of the story where the drowning mother has to decide between letting her kid drown first to buy her more a few more pointless minutes, or just drown together in a heroic adieu.
  • 4 1
 @stubob that already happened in 2008
  • 4 0
 @jaame: Almost time to bend over and take another pounding then
  • 28 9
 Why does everyone always assume the EU is going to come out of it winning. lol
The UK withdrawal doesn't just affect the UK
  • 13 16
 @timbud: Look on the bright side, the effects of withdrawal will always be shorter-lived than staying in!
  • 21 0
 @timbud: it is bad for both sides, no one wins, maybe China or the US.. so, well done!
  • 8 3
 @likehell: Some might argue it depends how you define "win"
  • 11 7
 @jaame: Exactly.
Everyones focusing too much on short term issues.
Any decent company already has multiple plans in place to cover a number of scenarios.
There's a lot of supposedly intelligent leaders panicking and getting their knickers in a twist rather than actually getting things sorted out. They're just going to have to compromise instead of saying No/Non/Nein all the bloody time.
  • 9 6
 @timbud: I was making a sex joke. But I agree with everything you have typed. It might be a shit show for a few years, but in ten years everything will work itself out (I hope!)
  • 10 1
 @jaame: Dude I've been married for nearly 17 years, I don't even know what that is anymore.
  • 3 3
 @timbud: Ha ha ha! Unlucky. cough*hookers*cough
  • 13 9
 @timbud: Sure every company has a plan in place. Which is to leave the UK as fast as possible when brexit happens.
  • 6 0

A point of note: you mean to say "Northern Ireland", not "Ireland" which is already an independent, sovereign nation that is part of the EU. This incredibly important fact is lamentably missed by Brexit supporters and the British media-at-large.
  • 9 6
 The French are rebuilding German fortifications on the beaches of Normandie. They are ready to throw onions at British immigrants arriving on boats. Or, will it be as Boris promised, the rise of the Empire to its own greatness? The Royal Navy shall leave the Mouth of Thames! Falklands then India, Hong Kong... summers in Rangoon... finally Boris will deal with the Scotts!
  • 8 0
 @WAKIdesigns: Boris dealing with Scotts? A bright spark like him will never deal with a problem on this scale, the complete lack of genius in his cabinet will mean a gambler like him will probably just put us in a position where we're held to ransom.
  • 1 0
 So what you're saying is that the stuff on Chain reaction cycles is about to deeply discounted for those not buying in GBP?
  • 4 0
 @likehell: *Northern Ireland
  • 5 18
flag Vulhelm (Oct 10, 2019 at 8:14) (Below Threshold)
 @Lemmingie: Dude. You just contradicted yourself by saying that they are independent and sovereign whilst part of the EU.
  • 2 3
 @FuzzyL: When we go youre be Funked hahahahaha
  • 6 1
 @Vulhelm: Please explain (without sounding like a victim of Russian asymmetric warfare).
  • 3 4
 @Vulhelm: I suspect there is drastic misunderstanding of what a sovereign nation is. There are no sovereign nations in the EU. It’s like saying ‘yeah I’m single in a marriage’.
  • 6 0
 @tobiusmaximum: In France, all married men are also single. And that was the basis of the European project.
  • 3 0
 @tobiusmaximum: is Britain a non-sovereign country? You mean like Czecho-Slovakia in 1939? Or like Palestine now? Love it, just love it. Put end to French and German economic occupation!
  • 1 0
 @BenPea: funniest thing I’ve read all day.
  • 4 1
 @likehell: so true. The United Kingdom reduced to ‘little Britain’ thanks to selfish lying politicians lying and making promises that many people believed. Together with a tabloid press that have no morals, peddling endless garbage to the masses to sell papers and stoke fires....
  • 3 0
 @kipvr: don’t be too hard on yourself, the “Make X Great Again” works everywhere. Quite a few politicians in the world are running on it. Something to take a very close look at. Limitations of intellect... “intellectuals” ignored “morons” for too long. Too many genuinely smart people miss the fact that there are different kinds of smart and in the process they get outsmarted by people they would call “imbeciles”.
  • 2 0
 @Lemmingie: True, sorry! Maybe time unite .. Wink
  • 1 0
 @WAKIdesigns: to put it bluntly...we're f*cked
  • 3 0
 @rcrdrvr: intellect does not have the same power anymore and public relations strategies took a hard uturn. it is time to relearn a thing or two for people who identify themselves as intellectuals. Also if you just call people racists, nationalists, homophobes, planet killers just because they show slight notion of not agreeing with policy of openness, ( and far left is spewing shit so well) you will get a backlash. It’s the age of trumps and the only scary thing is not Trumps and Johnsons, it’s whether they are still not the worst that can come.
  • 3 0
 @WAKIdesigns: yep, a balance must be struck, and these terms are not necessarily applicable today, at least not to the leaders. Racism and nationalism is becoming a tool to get the thugs on-side and to back you, giving you the confidence to rob your people blind. That's the best case scenario though, as it is possible that our leaders are pretty much enemy operatives now. The vocab has to change or it can be too easily dismissed. The word Nazi for example is so nebulous now, call them criminals and stop beating around the bush.
  • 4 1
 @BenPea: anyone can have some kind of phobia against anything. If it happens to be an immigrant of another skin color, talking in a language you don’t understand, obviously behaving to some degree according to a culture you cannot relate to, well it doesn’t instantly mean you want to start a concentration camp and gas everybody. You may just be slightly uncomfortable, it is your god damn right. And if you say you are, well... someone will call you a nazi sooner or later. In such climate, generated by far left, or politically correct mr and ms nice people, when you are called a nazi, quite a few of “concerned” folks (no matter how founded and rational their concern is) will go: “you know what, damn right I can be a nazi!” Or: “ this dude speaking to me from TV, seems to understand me”.

So I am generally tired of folks taking high intellectual ground. Because when 50%+ citizens vote for folks you call morons, then somewhere, somehow, you are off. It is irrelevant whether you are right or wrong, when you reject inhabitants of reality you live in. Yes you may have an impressive, catching lecture based on hard data on how bad will it be when the bus you and others sit in will fall off the cliff if it keeps driving at it. But if you won’t take time to research how to address people on this bus who can change direction, and you will put your self above their leader who obviously wants everybody dead, then you will drive off that fkng cliff...
  • 1 0
 @WAKIdesigns: i.e., you'll never convince people with facts if you insult them, regardless of how tempting it is. It doesn't work if you show pity either, that said. It's a mental issue. If you don't think there's anything wrong with you you won't try and get better. It's hard work to drill in to this and very few people have the patience for that. And those who do aren't listened to, because they use too many words and are perceived as condescending. You can't f*ckin win. The crooks have got this on lockdown. Watch flagship BBC political debates, it'll make your hair stand on end.
  • 1 1
 @WAKIdesigns: very well put. I never understood why fractions of the - as you call it - intellectual type can't find an efficient way of talking to masses. It always looks like they are trying to reach people using intellectual fact based methods, while masses operate on emotions. Result is the current US leader, Brexit and other nice things. Seems like intelligent people should understand this, what makes me think who is really intelligent here. Not an optimistic conclusion.
  • 2 3
 Someone doesn't lack intelligence just because they voted for Brexit (or a different party/leader to you).
Having a different opinion or goal in life to you is not a sign of intelligence or lack of.
  • 2 0
 @timbud: depends on the opinion and it's basis. An opinion based on a verifiable untruth or misinformation ain't worth shit unless it turns into a vote, then it becomes a dangerous weapon. Having an opinion should not shield anyone from analysis.
  • 1 0
 @BenPea: you’re basically criticising some because they’re not being objective whilst not being objective yourself. Well played.
There have been massive untruths on both sides of the debate(s), so that dangerous opinion is owned across the board.
The mere fact that so few are actually able to have a reasoned political discussion without spewing their shit is proof of that
  • 1 0
 @timbud: politicians are used car dealers and property agents on steroids. Off course both sides are rarely telling the truth, most often bending the truth and sometimes even tell straight forward lies. One thing is sure: very few have the whole picture. It is impossible for cast majority of voters to make an informed choice. There is no way in the whole world for anyone to say what outcome will Brexit have for which people. The amount of variables and externalities is unfathomable. In almost every single country, where populists like Trump, Kaczynski or Johnson won, there has been a longer period of business as usual where people could get an impression that politicians don’t do sht. Which was exploited by populists saying that ruling party does nothing, they painted the picture of the country getting degraded, working class being exploited and promised big action to make it better. Great Britain like almost every single Western Country is doing great. Majority of People just aren’t capanle of-appreciating what they have. Honestly, I get paid average money as for my education and experience but I don’t need more, I get way too much. I will not sit around whining that I need 5 bikes. People in Poland are such fkng whine masters, yet almost everyone has acar, many familes have 2 or three, I don’t know what else they want? A private jet with a pool? Would that cut it?
  • 2 1
 @timbud: in what way am I not being objective? Just because some twats with vested interests keep telling you experts know nothing, that doesn't delegitimise knowledge and expertise. What's dangerous about trying to keep a strong economy as stable as possible, compared to having to apply measures that you would only usually resort to during wartime because you're pursuing a policy that is good for nobody but the ultra rich? Just because things aren't perfect for everyone, doesn't mean you burn down an edifice built specifically to keep a continent as safe prosperous and resilient against other major global powers as possible. The f*ck is the UK going to do floating around untethered at the mercy of nefarious capitalist vultures operating under the wing of Trump (i.e. Putin) and his transnational crime syndicate. I repeat, these anti-elite charlatans don't give a shit about you and they're playing the populace like a f*cking harp with simple, easily digestible rhetoric and scapegoats.
And no, the untruths are in no way equivalent on both sides. This is the kind of BS that sees mindless rabble rousers given equal or superior air time than people with deep experience of the issues at hand.
  • 2 0
 @BenPea: because of you constant criticism of anyone who doesn’t share your opinion.

I haven’t even mentioned which way i voted (it was remain by the way) and you’ve spouted vitriol towards me.
The more this saga continues the more i can’t wait for the uk to leave. The way everyone (especially in mainland europe) is behaving makes me wish i voted the other way so the majority was higher.
I would have loved to be working in France, but because the French do not follow EU regulations I don’t/can’t. Why would i vote for that continue when member states actively break the ‘rules’?!
  • 1 2
 @timbud: and @BenPea - I am more than sure that collectively, Brexit will change nothing for the poorest, nothing for the richest, it will just blow the middle class, make it a bit poorer and make it harder for students from abroad to get jobs in UK. As simple as that. Even if a part of tax payers money was flowing out to EU, there is no way these tax payers will now see any of it. Increase in Quality of service funded from taxes like Police force, fire brigades, health care, infrastructure are near impossible to be observed. The only thing they can do is to lower the taxes saying “now you can keep more to yourselves, that used to flow out to EU”. Which will be a bullsht. The only thing EU does, it takes down tariffs between countries, easing up the trade and exchange of services and allows for much easier travel, getting jobs. The rest like standardization is half relevant. If yiu want to know who will fee Brexit most it’s companies like Hope. Instead of operating like they did, they will have to start a warehouse in Holland or Germany and go around tariffs/ taxes.
  • 2 1
 @timbud: because I'm no talking about you, you're just a normal bloke. I'm talking about the shenanigans behind all this and the specific people at the very top who are perpetrating this crime. I have no reason to go for you personally because the f*cking mind tricks that are going on are bewildering both in their dumb blatancy and their ability to convince, thanks to relentless repetition. You and me and all these other PBers should be able to feel like brothers from the same massive, insanely varied and beautiful landmass.
(The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince his followers that his detractors were going after them and not him.)
Meanwhile they talk of riots if the Brexit heist fails. Don't let them do this to you.
Wow, I'm feeling all Evangelical here. But it's not bullshit.
  • 2 2
 @timbud: “I haven’t even mentioned which way i voted (it was remain by the way) and you’ve spouted vitriol towards me.”

This is the way they work. They’re so convinced they’re right that they have some kind of moral justification for literally saying anything. It usually starts with personal insults before even discussing the issue. And then they wonder why Western Europe is turning to the right.

If only the soy boy, traitorous, remainer scumbags could be walled up inside the multi diversity hell that is London. Maybe after they’ve festered in their utopian shit silo for a few years they’ll realise something’s are more important than money.
  • 2 3
 @WAKIdesigns: “The only thing EU does, it takes down tariffs between countries, easing up the trade and exchange of services and allows for much easier travel, getting jobs.”

And the UK pays 15.5 billion per year for the privilege. Oh and to keep countless old, pointless twats, in Brussels employed in the gravy train project.
  • 2 0
 @jclnv: 15.5 billion Brits will never see anyways. It will be eaten up by UK government on stupid sht. Police, Teachers, Fire fighters, nirses will still earn nothing, healthcare will not be cheaper, prices of everything will keep going up. Middleclass will take the blow and get closer to lower class, poor will get poorer, rich will get richer as they always do. Every significant change is used by elites to get even more elite because they are the only ones who are capable of utilizing the situation where "stuff" is thrown up into the air, so they pick it up before anything falls back down. Please remember my words...

I am fasciated how engaged you are in others peoples sht. How are your neighbors? Have you organized their living room yet? You are quite zealoty for someone who doesn't like Gwin talking about God Smile I love the offset of bigotry. We all have it, few admit it.
  • 1 0
 @WAKIdesigns: nurses (et al) won't get paid their worth while the state dictates said worth. change my mind..
  • 1 0
 @tobiusmaximum: that is exactly what I mean... My city introduced a tariff on driving into the city. Since they did it, not a single new cycle path has been created in the center, tickets for public transport went up by 50%. Anyone who thinks, giving more money to the state will increase your standard of living is a lunatic. You may as well have easy trade between EU countries. You will never see the money you supposedly send to EU and gov will take your money from customs. That's how it will play out.
  • 6 0
 @jclnv: forget the moral justification, stick to the economics. Being in the EU as a trading block is a hell of a lot safer than casting off into a world of jackals, like Trump and his boys (I'm including Putin in this), Xi and his behemoth of a country and the emerging economics such as the BRICS. No amount of outdated English exceptionalism and talk of the empire will stop the UK getting eaten alive. 15.5 billion, or whatever the figure is, gives you access to a massive market worth much more than that, as well as joint projects that benefit regions and the country as a whole.
Also, the idiots (Bannon and his I'll) who have told you that foreigners and migrants are the enemy are colluding with foreigners in front of your eyes while throwing chaff in the wind for you to chase.
Forget the emotive arguments, which come from the heart rather then f*cking Breitbart and Infowars (come on, you love that shit, it's easy to tell), Boris's own government admit Brexit is going to damage the country and every mechanism that keeps it humming along. What they won't tell you is that they have the interests of some very shady people in mind. But you've picked your side so I could be talking Japanese and it wouldn't make a bit of difference.
The EU isn't perfect, but it's the best way of staving off the wolves. Why do you think Russia wants to weaken the EU? Because it's a solid and powerful block that he sees as being threatening to his kleptocracy. You're choosing the side of a psychopathic ex-KGB boss who is gaslighting the world to the point of swaying popular opinion and murdering with impunity in his own country and abroad, including in the UK. But also the side of a guy mile Trump who has just done the unthinkable in Syria to shore up his financial interests in the land of Erdogan.
The sad thing is that I'm wasting my time engaging, because all I will get is accusations of personal insults, when that is far from the reality. These people are f*cking all of us, but most of all those who put their trust in them.
  • 1 0
 @BenPea: Articulately put.
  • 1 0
 @locoola: decimated by autocorrect, unfortunately...
  • 42 5
 Good article. Very interesting to know.

To everyone complaining about politics or Brexit getting a mention on Pinkbike:
The bike industry was always going to be forced to change with this happening. Wouldn't you like to know how it may effect you or your local shop? It could force shops out of business and people out of jobs. You trying to be oblivious to this fact won't help the situation at all. Grow up.

And if you REALLY can't handle reading it - you know you don't have to read everything that is posted on the internet right?
  • 11 5
 And more on this, It really helps your local favorite bike shop if you order through them! so what if ordering online will save you a fiver and will be here a day earlier! use your bike shop unless you're absolutely desperate for something they can't get, but always check first!! Keep them in business!!
  • 13 1
 @Jamestyrrell: Sooo, you're saying I should be a charitable benefactor for in-flexible businesses with outmoded trading methods? Ok...
  • 43 7
 Yep fall in currency has already offset the tariff reduction

Every £10 we spend on direct imported goods, like petrol that's bought in $, £1.50 is lost to inflation thanks to brexit

Overall inflation has taken ~£70bn out of the economy according to governments own figures, and inflation will always hit those at the bottom hardest.

If we crash out without a deal the £ will only fall further

And this is terrible for Orange & others who will face increased import costs for aluminium etc, but have cheaper foreign competition! (Same for farming & rest of manufacturing- compensation schemes will cost £bns)

On top of that £1tn! in assets has left the UK financial markets, that's about 1% of tax take lost for the government for good.

And brexit itself is costing £billions, biggest increase in civil servants since the war & 1000s more customs agents to deal with all the extra red tape we are creating.

All of this is already many times our EU membership costs

The brexiteer MPs made a series of endless promises about brexit, all have proved to be wrong

When people say they don't know what brexit will bring in the future they are right, but the costs already are immense and even the most optimistic predictions show us to be poorer and with less influence.

No country has ever voted to increase costs & barriers between its largest trading partner and tear up all its existing trade agreements.

The government is having to stockpile food & medicines, in peacetime

I work in a cancer research lab and know that the NHS can't guarantee that they'll be able to maintain treatment, diabetics are currently having insulin prescriptions halved.

This is madness, poll after poll has shown the country no longer wants Brexit, but a clique of hard right MPs are looking to force it through anyway, Johnson already been found guilty of lying to the queen ????

Why anyone still thinks Brexit is a good idea is beyond me.
  • 6 20
flag markg1150 (Oct 10, 2019 at 5:12) (Below Threshold)
 Ahhh yes the continued moronic view that any deal by Oct or Jan ect is the be all and end all of all trade deals ect till we all drown from the ice caps melting.
  • 3 21
flag sumarongi (Oct 10, 2019 at 11:40) (Below Threshold)
 Every Brit I’ve ran into is pro-brexit now even if they weren’t before
  • 11 0
 @sumarongi: you can't have run into many then. tup
  • 7 0

This really isn't the general feeling here.
  • 3 9
flag jclnv (Oct 10, 2019 at 22:28) (Below Threshold)
 Jesus project fea4 has done a right number on you.

How did the UK function before the EU? How do countries like Australia and Japan survive?

Dear oh dear man pull yourself together.
  • 5 1
 @jclnv: before we joined the eu we were in a right state , it took 2 attempts to get them to say “ok we’ll cut you some slack but don’t let us down” ! Since then all we’ve done is cause them grief, we had the best deal we could possibly get , better than any other country in the world could dream of getting , but yeah we’ve only gone and fxxked it up thanks to a few Tory oldschool brexitiers and that scumbag Man of the people, beers swigging , *ag in hand FARAGE ! Now everyone’s at loggerheads , whatever happens it’s gunna be alone time before things settle !
  • 7 0
 @jclnv: They both have free trade area agreements with the ASEAN bloc.

How did the UK function before the EU - the world has changed since the 70s. That's like saying surely international businesses functioned before the internet/telecommunications, yes they did, but if you tried to run one on that model now you'd be outpaced by every other player.
  • 2 3
 @GrandMasterOrge: Again, how does Japan, Australia function?

The truth is nobody knows if it will be better or worse for the UK economy in the long term. You can either approach it positively or buy into the fear.

Good luck.
  • 40 4
 It's worse if you're a country in that union where the majority of the population voted to stay.
  • 22 75
flag inked-up-metalhead (Oct 10, 2019 at 0:20) (Below Threshold)
 Yeah well you should have waited to have your referendum shouldn't you? You voted to stay with the UK, and act as one. More people in the UK wanted to leave, so you'll have to stop whinging, the Scottish people and government really aren't endearing themselves to the rest of the country you know, most English people I know want a referendum on whether to kick he Scottish scroungers out or not.
  • 27 1
 @inked-up-metalhead: Jeasas. You guys should go and have a cup of tea and chill. But don't forget Cameron coming to Scotland and begging them to stay and promising that they will change and not be dicks to the Scotts anymore, just to turn the day after the referendum around and kick them in the teeth. Nicely done, Westminster.
  • 23 3
 I see a new referendum.. hope to welcome you back soon, scottish friends!
  • 29 4
 @inked-up-metalhead: That’s complete nonsense you f*cktard
  • 14 4
 @inked-up-metalhead: Cough, cough GDP per capita is higher for Scotland than UK....
  • 19 3
 @inked-up-metalhead: I was told as a Scot that if I voted to leave the UK I would be voting to leave the definitely made me stop and think for a bit. Do I want to leave the EU? No I do not. Do I want to remain part of the UK? No I do not. Independence won over in 2014 and I voted YES...I didnt get what I wanted but at least I was still part of the EU and all that offers...until we aren't.

Scotland got lied to and shafted, no way round it.

OH and most people I know would f*cking LOVE the English to f*ck us off. England going independent from the UK would actually go a long way to solving this shite.
  • 10 1
 It’s because of @rseholes like you we voted to leave@inked-up-metalhead:
  • 9 2
 @stoo61: There is some truth in that. In many ways, there would be a lot less division in society if there were more discreet nations with their own laws and systems. I'm all about self-determination. In my opinion, if a people want to form their own little country, like Catalunya, Taiwan, white South Africa, or whatever, they should be allowed to do so provided the majority of that geographic location wanted it, and they did not harm others in the formation of that country.

Large federations inevitably pass legislation which displeases huge amounts of people. Why would Scots want to be told what to do by English politicians 500 miles away? Why would Taiwanese want to be dictated to by Xi Jinping, an unelected president from another country who has never set foot on their island? Of course people in California don't want the orange baby telling them what they can and can't do. One possible answer is to make smaller countries.
  • 11 6
 @freeride-me1: Because everyone who voted leave is an arsehole.
  • 8 3
 @inked-up-metalhead: I couldn't care if we were endearing or not.
And scroungers yeah look where your water electricity and meat come from!
Don't believe the hype you need us more than we need you.
Bring on that referendum the sooner the better.
  • 10 4

Plucky Scots demanding freedom from the oppressive English: stand up and applaud!

Small minded little Englanders wanting to leave the EU: Racists, the lot of them! Boo!
  • 5 0
 @jaame: Exactly!
  • 9 4
 @inked-up-metalhead: This comment is exactly why people like me who voted to stay part of the UK, would now vote leave. SNP seem a lot more competent than the ridiculous Westminster lot now, and that is saying something! This country is a complete embarrassment, not just by the racist clowns who voted to Leave the EU, it has been made worse by the pure ignorance and greed of career politicians who don't give a f*ck about the country. No wonder the world is laughing at us.
  • 5 3
 @thewho07: I agree with most of what you said, but not the racist part. It’s pretty obnoxious to claim everyone who voted leave is racist.
  • 4 1
 @jaame: I agree that was obnoxious. The whole leave campaign was centred around immigration though. Nigel Farage and his lot are racist. What minute percentage of the population has ever been effected by immigration. One fine example, where would the NHS be without all these brilliant, intelligent doctors and surgeons who come from all over the world? I'll stick by my words and say deep down, most leavers are racist. In my opinion.
  • 6 0
 @jaame: If they don't want to be called racist, maybe they should take a break from saying and doing racist things. But with Mr Bongo Bongo Land as PM that seems unlikely.
  • 13 1
 @thewho07: Have you considered this angle

So I read again that the causes of a voting majority of people to leave the European Union were false promises, for example, millions to the NHS and simply people being racist. There was a voting contingency in all of this that nobody within the Remain campaign seemed neither interested, unaware or simply not bothered to address. It appeared to me that this traditionally Labour voting section of the community was assumed to vote to remain in the EU because they would blindly follow the way their political party and/or trade union wished them to vote.

This is the portion of society that generally works long unsociable hours in low pay positions in which the most of us would not even contemplate, they dont have the luxury of a profession let alone a vocation, their labour is classed as unskilled yet ironically many professionals would be incapable of it, the unskilled rise out of their bed, the aches and pains of repetitive labour reminds them of the days, months and years ahead of them but they have to press on, rent, electricity, gas, food and the many other bills have to be paid.
Some have worked in industries where at one point their skills were valued and rewarded, not handsomely, but adequately, then it happened.

The Labour government at the time thought it would be beneficial for this country to be an early adopter of free movement along with two other countries within the EU, they thought it would create a wealth for this country and in part it did, but the cost for the unskilled was to put it frankly, unfair, fierce competition from a motivated foreign workforce (mainly from poor pay EU countries which explains the motivation) for their lower paid jobs, their lower cost housing, their local schooling and local healthcare due to disproportionate numbers arriving in these areas, those sort of numbers did not arrive in the mid/higher jobs market nor the mid/higher cost housing areas.

The Press appeared to single out people usually from poorer white communities, looking for comments from a young disadvantaged teen struggling to get work which implied racism or sounded racist which is more born from being maybe a little bit less inarticulate than plain old racism, this was debunked in a way when the results of the referendum were broken down, many of the heavily Asian communities in the Midlands and Yorkshire also voted leave but whatever damage the press intended to do had already been done by then.
Remain supporters did not ask, why does this section of society have this point of view? They just pushed out the racism/uneducated/geriatric rhetoric and it appeared none of the people in the paygrades above the unskilled were really that interested in what they had to say, all they saw was things may become more difficult if you fancy going somewhere in Europe, roaming charges, or prices of something going up, they had their like minded social media groups and stuck to them, they saw that they had a really reliable window cleaner, car washer, gardener, etc and the unskilled could not possibly affect the vote but they did.
The cause for this vote to me was disproportionate affectation in the poorer areas. The mistake was assuming that they had nothing of use to say when if the better educated/more fortunate had, just for a second, taken off their PC correctness headphones they maybe would have heard the social imbalances that have been magnified due to the disproportionate affectation, that these people are actually concerned about rapid change and alienation within what was not long ago their own community, a 45+ hours a week on nightshift at minimum wage is not uncommon these days in some areas and shift allowance has basically disappeared, many positions are offered by agencies as ongoing work with no true job security, because employers know there is a proliferation of motivated non unionised labour from the EU, the evidence is there on any jobsite. Would Remain supporters have voted to remain if there had been a massive influx in English speaking office/professional workers willing to work longer hours for the same or in some instances less money, competing for the same housing, schoolplaces, healthcare etc.

To be classed as racist and unwelcoming is a total injustice when many of the people posting these accusations will not have been disproportionaly affected and frankly would have no way of knowing what it is like to be in the unskilled's position. The unskilled work, live and socialise amongst people from all over the world, quite possibly having a more diverse social and cultural education than most people in the payscales above could ever dream of, but because they dont have a real voice which is actually listened to, who would ever know...?
  • 8 2
 @jaysmudger: I partly agree. Although I don't agree it was the unskilled who effected it that much. It was the pensioners. Something like 60 percent of the 65 plus category voted leave. These people with their pensions (whether big or small or nothing), free bus passes, free TV, new cars, nice holidays, probably sitting in their mortgage free houses, voted on something that probably won't ever effect them. Us younger lot plus the next generation, who still have at least two thirds of our life to live will take the brunt of this massive f*ck up.
  • 4 0
 @jaysmudger: I largely agree, but I really do not think the issue is only EU workers. With a generally increasing population in comparison to the, let’s say, 1960, competition for jobs was going to go up, regardless. The problem is that the economic system currently pushed disadvantages unskilled workers in an environment, where there are lots of high skilled workers demanding high social benefits, safety, environmental standards etc. This drives costs up,, but by allowing cheap products into the country, produced under conditions not equal to our own (from a social, environmental point of view), we outcompete local manufacturers, driving even more unskilled workers into fewer jobs. As you said, skills that used to be sought after, no longer were needed. But at the same time, high skilled workers’ wages continued to go up and a sense of unfairness was created. Foreign low skilled workers maybe accelerated this, it I don’t think it is the cause.
What is BJs answer? Even lower tariffs. It will drive this system even further. With a block the size of the EU we have the chance to challenge other countries, by demanding social and environmental standards equal to ours so that the competition is fair. This is what we need to achieve. This will be much harder for the UK alone and not the intention of BJ. As an example, the 2 year warranty implemented by the EU has had a ripple effect cross the globe because many manufacturers did not want a two-tire production line. Will they do the same, if the market is only a 10th of the size? Doubt it.
  • 4 3
 @thewho07: It is estimated and widely reported that at least 64% of people classed as working class voted leave. I do think that maybe the the people over 65 are the ones who have the most experience of before and after joining the EU and that this experience should not be taken lightly, also remember most people of that age are parents and grandparents which would have been a factor in their thinking.
  • 5 1
 @jaame: there’re not BUT all racists voted for brexit !
  • 6 5
 @stoo61: If Scotland, Wales and NI declared independence they would be giving up the annual aid package they currently receive from England's taxpayers:

£13bn to Scotland
£14bn to Wales
£10bn to NI

Scotland would be in a particularly bad situation due to their huge deficit.

England would be £37bn better off each year.
  • 6 1
 @Matt115lamb: Exactly. I am prepared to believe that there are perfectly wonderful people who voted leave. However, these poor souls got into bed with all manner of racists, nationalists, English exceptionalists, hedgefund gangsters, currency speculators, friends of Putin, etc. If they still have not disowned their original position, they need to ask themselves some serious questions. And show me a man or woman who actually fought in the war and I will show you a remainer.
  • 9 1
 I rode my bike today. It was fun.
  • 4 1
 @mitochris: you are spot on when you say having tarriff free imports is a bad idea. We should be taxing the shit out of anything from countries we don't sell to in equal amounts. Tariff free trade should be only for countries who are buying our shit.
And the government should work double time to bring manufacturing jobs back to this country. Give all those people working in Carphone Warehouse, Costa Coffee and McDonald's real jobs they can be proud of. And we need more houses, because it's supply and demand and the house prices are criminal at the moment. My dad said his first house cost him three years' salary. My house is about ten years' salary, and it's not even made of real stone! Too few houses, too many buyers. The prices nowadays are insane. What else? Put criminals to work on the roads and make them earn their keep in prison. £37543 a year is the average cost per prisoner per year in the UK. That's a lot of taxpayers' money going to waste right there. And I'm not talking about chaining them up or anything inhumane. Just get them to do some work to help repay their debt to society.
  • 5 1
 @jaame: According to WTO rules (oh yeah baby!) you have to apply the same tariffs to all countries in each category of product, unless a free-trade agreement is signed.... which takes about a decade with a major economic player, cos it's quite a complicated business, contrary to what the charlatans had told us.
  • 2 1
 @BenPea: I think most of the vote leavers voted with good BUT false intentions and fast forward 3 years and after most of the reasons have been proved false some can’t admit they made a mistake so double down on any fake facts they can find . The Facebook Daily News , Farage Weekly and rightwing tabloids are the real problems not some poor refugee or a bent banana !
  • 7 0
 @Matt115lamb: Absolutely, but as lie after lie peels away, what is left? The choice between being a xenophobe, a conspiracy nut or a fantasist. And don't forget that the men who run the pro Brexit press are unlikely to find EU tax evasion crackdowns appealing. This, Trump, Turkey, Ukraine. It's all so f*cking obvious. A massive transnational criminal gang bang.
  • 2 0
 @inked-up-metalhead: best be careful else the Billy Boys will come knockin
  • 1 0
 @BenPea: f*cking exactly...long time in the making, couple of key moves and the ball started rolling down hill for the rest of the world!
  • 3 0
 @jaysmudger: Man, you hit the nail on the head there mate, never have I heard a better way of expressing the opinion of most working class people, I'm in construction and it's been decimated by cheap labour from Europe, but that doesn't affect the people buying the £350,000 + houses, they don't care about guys working for less than minimum wage, all those lovely E.U. health and safety rules totally flouted.The school system is oversubscribed,the NHS is overburdened,the social housing market is full,and the roads are crammed,too many people too quickly,no country especially a small one could cope with such a vast increase in population.The middle class, and the Labour party under Tony Blair all came out winners from this, and what annoys me the most is no one ever asked me to vote on letting such a vast influx of people in . And finally, what's the under 30 unemployment rate in Spain, Portugal,Italy,Greece etc ? Those countries are basket cases and if the EU ever published the financial books the drop in the euro would bring Europe to its knees . Rant over Smile
  • 1 0
 @scoot34: My mate used to be a lanscaping manager in London. He once quipped that he felt like an Albanian pimp because he had labourers from Albania. Some of them were legally working, some weren't. He would pay the legal ones double, and they would give "half" to their illegal mates - although he questioned how much they were actually getting.
  • 2 0
 @scoot34: have you tried googling EU financial books ? You be surprised what you will find !
@jaame: your mate is part of the problem for employing illegal immigrants !
  • 3 0
 @Matt115lamb: I know! I don’t think my mate had any say in it but he told us what was going on. He said the company owner would do anything he could get away with to save money. I’m sure that guy was not alone. I thought it was hilarious when he told me, but I was only 21 or 22 at the time. It’s not so funny now.
  • 1 0
 @scoot34: the EU books are audited and up to date, if construction bosses are willing to break the law that's not the EU's fault - if it wasn't Europeans it would be Turks (I know cos I got some to render our gaff), and if the "basket case" nations have f*cked up their economies it's because the EU can't force them not to. Bottom line is that frictionless trade, cooperation in every area under the sun and having the clout to stand up to the US, China, etc. far outweigh all these contentious arguments. People are always going to be shafted and scapegoats will be found quickest by those doing the shafting, and by God are they good at both of those things. 'Divide and conquer' is not just a random set of words.
  • 3 0
 @BenPea: E.U. books are audited ???? Really ??? The books have never - ever been signed off since day one.I agree with you, frictionless trade and co-operation is a fantastic thing, but as a father of 3 kids, I despair, even if my kids do well at school,get a good degree, what chance do they have, how many degree graduates have what was once accepted as degree entry wages ? And if they don't do well at school, the non academic route of apprentice/college entry into work has gone, because employers don't have to train anyone,just import labour on low wages,happy days for them.So you may think I'm bigoted or racist, anyone who knows me would laugh at that one, but basically I didn't want my country to be swamped with cheap labour ,cause it's no good for me, my kids future and let's not forget the people being treated like shit .Your comment about the E.U not being able to force economies to be responsible is ridiculous,how about the sanctions enforced on Greece ? If they can do it to Greece ,why can't they do it to Italy ? Italy is more than on the brink of collapse, if it ever actually tried to balance it's books it would never be out of debt, they don't do it because Italy is one of the founding fathers of the whole EU shitbox .I do however concede your point about divide and conquer, in the UK we now have the country divided pro and anti EU, we actually had a vote on it, and the majority voted to leave.
  • 1 1
 @scoot34: Point 1: yes. Point 2: the Greeks f*cked up, they were bailed out, subject to terms and conditions. Point 3: the people f*cking the working classes are British born and bred.
  • 1 0
 @BenPea: " EU auditors refuse to sign off more than £100billion of its own spending
Critics attack the EU for demanding that David Cameron pays a £1.7 billion bill despite an official audit failing to give a clean bill of health to more than £100 billion of Brussels spending " Daily telegraph online. The list of such examples is endless, but I think facts and statistics can be bent around either way, just look at the debt per capita in Europe, look at the unemployment rates in Europe and then tell me the E.U is a shining example.I know I speak in very selfish terms for the prospects and futures of my kids, but that's my main concern in life, looking after my family.
  • 1 0
 @scoot34: but you’ve now stopped them being educated and working freely in one of the biggest trade blocks in the world while the post brexit financial forecast whatever the outcome ( apart from remaining ) isn’t looking too good !
  • 2 0
 @Matt115lamb: Have you seen the youth unemployment rates in Europe ? Why do you think so many university educated European youngsters come here to work in Costa ?
  • 1 1
 @scoot34: The EU is made up of sovereign states. It can't govern in their stead. You're looking through the wrong end of the telescope. And the Telegraph is a mouthpiece for billionaires who want to avoid the scrutiny that the EU is trying to bring in. A vile tabloid in a suit. Did you read their column about how the UK should just cut NI loose? That it's a millstone around the neck of GB? Way to protect the Union. These elites don't give a shit about your kids.
  • 2 0
 @BenPea: Mate, I think your missing the point, I can't do anything about the world being run by billionaires,that's always been the case,and always will be,you think the top dogs at the EU are just working class Joe's ?, On average wage ? Live in affordable housing ? I doubt it Smile . I drive a hgv all over the UK, delivering to building sites, and rarely do I go on a housing site I could afford to live on, not that I'd ever buy a new house, and I'm on way more than average wage, the point I'm trying to make is that I just don't see a better future for the kids in this country if we stay in the EU. Cameron's mistake was opting for a straight in/out vote, if he/ the government would have had a poll about putting the brakes on unlimited immigration, the yes vote would have been massive, then he could have gone to the EU and just said we need to change this, or the UK will vote to leave, most people don't want the inevitable aggro that's coming,but people were so pissed off at being ignored this is now the result .
  • 1 0
 @scoot34: I think it has been said before, but the EU contribution to the UK is only 1/3. The rest is from outside the UK. Also, the UK was very lazy in removing people who, under EU laws, had no right to stay in the UK, even when coming from the EU, or because they came through an EU country. The problems were self-inflicted and exaggerated.
Additionally, we have an increase in the global population and one major issue in the long run will be to find work for all the people that are on the planet. So competition for jobs will increase. The problem though at the moment is not that there are not enough jobs, it’s that many of us do not want to work for the money that is offered. It’s not that immigrants come and steal jobs. They might apply to jobs with lower wages, but employees do not offer the job only to immigrants or offer the job at a lower pay. If companies employ people illegally, then the system is the problem and won’t change with leaving.
I am sure the UK will be fine, but it is a shame that everyone blames the EU for self inflicted issues. And I believe together we are stronger.
  • 1 1
 @mitochris: Exactly. You can only measure facts using data and immigrants are treated apallingly despite the fact that they are net contributors to the economy and many thousands of them are wiping your grannies arse and treating your sick kids when they end up in hospital, not to mention teaching them foreign languages in schools. The weaponization of immigration is an amazing strategy because it pushes so many of the buttons the soulless monsters at the top need to push to secure power and wealth.
  • 1 0
 @BenPea: Alot if people in this country get confused between immigration and illegal immigration , also an immigrant and an expat !
  • 1 0
 @Matt115lamb: now you say it, of course they do... Many still think no deal means they're not joining the EU and are going back to the good old days in 2015. But we are not talking about ALL Brexit voters', just those they associate with.
  • 31 3
 After WWII in which so many lives were lost, the conclusion made by all nations was; NEVER AGAIN WAR.

To make this happen, they intertwined their economy's and made all sorts of international agreements further relying on each other. That way, an attack on another nation was an attack on their own economy and was basicly suicide. The progress made in all EU nations the last 50 years shows the succes of the concept.

The fact that the UK now thinks they are better of alone in facing all the global challenges (climate & migration it brings), shows to me they -or at least a part of them- have forgotten history. A real shame.
  • 5 1
 This is an interesting take. After the recent elections in Austria, I red an article claiming that the "Robin-Hood-for-the-rich" won. The argument made was that we are in general so well off that we forgot what it took to get to this point, and that any suggestion that we have to share our wealth is dealt with anger. We have forgotten history, indeed. Is Europe perfect? No, of course not. We are the largest weapons exporter in the world and one of the leading CO2 emission blocks. But by having many a people deciding together, we have checks and balances that in the long run, will hopefully be universally beneficial.
  • 2 6
flag sumarongi (Oct 10, 2019 at 11:41) (Below Threshold)
 ‘Climate and migration’

Lol that’s why they voted leave you fool
  • 1 0
 @sumarongi: yes, that’s what I wrote. Of course. I’m the fool here.
  • 1 0
 @mitochris: I don't think that was directed at you - it was, at least, a proper quote of JWP's remarks, if an odd, reductive analysis at best.
  • 37 10
 It's frustrating that we're even talking about a "no deal Brexit", because technically that should be impossible being as its now constitutionally illegal, yet we have such trust in our PM that everyone knows he will gladly break the law to get what he wants. Because sovereignty yeah? Anyone else see the irony?
  • 34 43
flag FairGoFalcon (Oct 9, 2019 at 22:59) (Below Threshold)
 Didn't the public vote for it to be done? He seems to be getting the job done. I don't envy him.
  • 11 3
 It's not illegal. It's just illegal to do it on the 31st. We'll just fanny around for a bit longer and then fk ourselves over rather than fking ourselves over now.
  • 12 13
 @FairGoFalcon: nope and nope
  • 10 10
 @FairGoFalcon: exactly!
  • 25 4
 @FairGoFalcon: the problem was that the question put to the voter was whether the UK should leave the European customs union, yes or no. The YES won by a small percentage, but instead of then asking HOW? Parlament rushed to push article 50, which initiated the process. Since the LEAVE vote is split into “no deal” and “deal”, Parlament then realised that they have a problem, because they can’t agree, since the “remain” block in Parlament will als ways either get support from “no deal” or “deal” people, depending what option is put before them. Parliament is doing exactly what they should be doing, but now they have a prime minister that represents the smallest of those three fractions “no deal”, which would be utterly undemocratic, if he manages to push it through, as he was not even elected by the British people, let alone has a majority for a “no deal”.
  • 20 4
 @mitochris: you make good points.
I think the problem is the vote was performed on a hypothetical question to which no one knew the consequences (and I mean no one, on either side) and frankly, a lot of people don't care. They just want to leave, to hell with the consequences.

They are people too. Low IQ, low social status, racist, nostalgic, educated, liberal, intelligent, it doesn't matter. One person, one vote. Leave won. The vote has to be honoured.

There should never have been a referendum. That was a major political blunder. Huge.

They say with motorcycles, never race a bike you can't afford to crash. Well that's exactly what David Cameron did, and he crashed it. Now the whole thing is f*cked.

What a mess!
  • 2 0
 Or just buy the vote of Hungary to trigger a veto.
  • 5 0
 @zoobab2: Is that you, China?
  • 1 0
 @zoobab2: You're presuming there isn't one (Hungary?) to be found for free. I am unconvinced.
  • 23 6
 @FairGoFalcon: The public voted in a non-binding advisory referrendum that the UK should leave the EU at some point in the future. The problem with that is three fold. First the margin of victory was 1.8%, all the leave campaigners stated often and loudly that a margin of less than 2% would mean another referrendum in the near future.

Second the leave campaign never had a plan beyond leaving, leave meaning different things to different leavers. Some voted to split the UK from EU economic rules, some voted to make the foreign people go away, some voted based on a nostalgic vision of 'the way things used to be,' now they're all fighting over what they actually voted for.

Lastly (and this one's a biggy) the leave side cheated. First they conducted secret, illegal surveillance on millions of people through Facebook, then they hijacked real people's accounts and used them to peddle fake news based on that surveillance data. They also pooled their funding between multiple campaigns to circumvent the UK's political spending limits. To say the nothing of the constant public branding of remain campaigners as traitors, enemies of democracy, foreign sympathisers and so on.

To a lot of people a line has been crossed and it's no longer about the vote, it's a battle of ideologies that will be fought to the end. Even if we do leave the EU it won't be over, the remain side will start campaigning to re-join on the spot.
  • 4 0
 @Fix-the-Spade: down with Facebook!
  • 1 0
 @jaame: Eh, Zuckerbot can keep making his billions, old folks have got to have a safe space somewhere.
  • 4 0
 @FairGoFalcon: Ah the public. They always vote for the bigliest guy.
  • 13 0
 @Fix-the-Spade: that's a very accurate account of what's going on.

Anyone who says it was a democratic decision to leave has to understand that what's happening now is democratic. There is no majority to leave in a particular way, that's a fact or it would have happened. It should never have been 50% wins vote on a question that has so many options as to how you do it.

Democracy and the checks and balances within it, are what's stopping any change from happening. If there was a clear path, sound calculations and a defined goal it would stand a chance.

But literally everything has been a lie:
£350m a week for the NHS.
Stopping immigration.
Easiest trade deal in history.
Economy will boom.
Refusal to produce impact assessments.
Prorogation and lying to the Queen and people.
One year of tax cuts to make people think things are great, then the pain will hit.

The only way this can be pushed through its by circumventing laws and procedure for a goal no one even knows what it is, unless you are one of the chosen few, literally maybe 20 people including Johnson and his backers including multi billionaire media moguls, hedge fund owners and people like Lynton Crosby.

It's democracy that's stopping Brexit, Brexit will not bring democracy.
  • 1 0
 @jaame: you didn’t even vote so what are you getting all hot for ! Wink
  • 1 0
 @Matt115lamb: I enjoy a good debate as much as the next man
  • 2 0
 @FairGoFalcon: Nobody voted for a no deal, it didn't even appear as a phrase until several months after the referendum result. At the time of the vote we were told it would be 'the easiest deal of all time and we hold all the cards'.
  • 1 0
 @mitochris: you’re sort of right , but it was the government that pushed the article 50 and parliament HAD to vote for it otherwise every brexit tabloid would have had there faces splashed on the front page with “traitors, enemies of the people , saboteurs “ all over them !
This whole brexit horror show should never have happened , David Cameron dropped the biggest clanger EVER !
  • 4 0
 @GrandMasterOrge: But equally it was obvious that wasn’t true. Pople just wanted to believe in it so they temporarily did.

I’d be surprised if you could find two Leave voters who could agree on exactly what their vision for the U.K. out of Europe looked like. Say what you like about Remain voters, but at least by voting for the status quo they knew exactly what they were choosing.
  • 16 0
 What is this Brexit? Are we leaving the EU? Who's idea was this?
  • 3 0
 Fake news
  • 19 9
 @Chilliwacker: funny you say that. Pretty much everything about brexit is fake news. No one actually knows whats going on so its mainly left to well, the left to come up with very scare monger stories. People are quick to forget that part of why we left was because the EU was in dire straights finacially around Greece, Italy, spain, etc. and we were propping them up. When you actually look at it objectively it probably wont make that bigger difference. The way its been gone about is a bit crap though. Thats as much to do with the pettiness of the EU though (which is why people wanted to leave).
Im neither for nor against. Its my stance that I make ‘informed decisions’. And as a citizen of GB, I have not been ‘informed’. The whole thing is all a bit boring now and most people I know stopped giving a crap ages ago.
  • 17 3
 There's an error. It should write "eMTB tariffs are set to remain at 6.66%"
  • 14 1
 666% would actually kill them off
  • 8 0
 This article is great news...a 17% discount on bikes from outside the EU! Brilliant!

Oh hang on...
Back before the Brexit vote in 2016, you'd get £1.48 for every one USD.
So my local bike shop importing a USD$4,000 bike from the USA would pay an extra 17% Import USD$4,680. Back then at the £1.48 exchange rate, that would equal £3,162.

But if there's a Hard Brexit and the Import Duty is removed, then at today's exchange rate, £1.22, you'd pay £3,278.
But most economists reckon the GBP will collapse in a Hard Brexit.
So even a modest decline down to £1.11 means that bike will cost you £3,604.

Who benefits here? Not us buying the bike. Not the bike shop who is now paying more to get the same bike. Not the US bike distributor because the USD price hasn't changed. Not the EU, there's no Import Duty anymore. one!
  • 5 6
 Except GB now has the right of self determination.
Freedom isn’t free
  • 4 0
 @sumarongi: GB already has the right of self determination, the right to control it's borders (various governments gutted our border force), the right to set it's own laws, even the right to decide what colour our passport should be (I want day glo orange and chrome). Weasly politicos just hide behind 'Europe' as an excuse for their bad decisions and cowardice.
  • 27 21
 I must say it's funny as someone not from the UK to watch the shit hit the fan... I mean the majority of you guys voted for this.

Hard to feel sorry for you if either voted "the wrong way" or couldn't be bothered to vote.

Just move to Queenstown NZ. Crisis averted.
  • 13 4
 Well I felt the same way as a Canadian about the USA situation but with certain party leaders in the current election being the way they are... I'm starting to see it can happen to any country (and that's depressing) :///
  • 27 15
 Do you really want those immigrants flooding NZ, stealing your job, getting citizenship, and then voting the wrong way there?
  • 12 31
flag jclnv (Oct 9, 2019 at 23:09) (Below Threshold)
 What you think the shit hitting the fan is leaving a superstate of unelected bureaucrats with a grim economic outlook?
  • 32 13
 Sadly mate everyone I know below 40-50 years old voted to remain... it was the baby boomers that did it not the people that will have to deal With it for the longest time.
  • 18 3
 The majority did not vote for this situation.

The majority of voters did vote to ‘leave’ but despite what the media and more ‘extreme’ side of the leave campaign and representatives may state, most people did not vote for 3 years of chaos and division leading to a situation where a deal is not found and the economy is trashed - no ‘project fear’ the current governments figures.

Compromise is out of the window now here in the UK, Brexit is a cult / religion and we have lost sight of the fact this is was all done to make things better in the UK, not ‘just leave’...
  • 3 1
 @GZMS: considering Larkeys and Aussie. I doubt he cares as much
  • 19 7
 "I mean the majority of you guys voted for this."
nope, only one quarter of the populace
  • 9 2
 @josh250: Same all over UK I reckon, it's predominantly the older generations that voted to leave...

The sad thing is if they held the election again it would probably swing the other way due to the number of older folk who have sadly passed on between the election and now. Either way I don't think they should have actioned Brexit on such a minority percentage difference, are they going to hold the election again in 3 years when it swings back the other way, and then again 3 years after that? It's a joke.

I run a business and 30% of our T/O go to Europe, I bet I can write that off now, home grown demand might pick up but as the market place is much smaller it will not make up for the difference.
  • 6 4
 @jclnv: finally the mighty UK is leaving those bereaucrats behind.. it will now have the time it needs (10 years, maybe more) to formulate it's position on the trade policy.. and then will have freedom to spend 20 more years to start negotiations.. those damn EU bureaucrats are just making all those decisions for them so quickly!
  • 5 24
flag jclnv (Oct 9, 2019 at 23:38) (Below Threshold)
 @josh250: Thank f*ck for people with life experience who remember a time before the EU.
  • 13 1
 Do not include me in that dude I voted remain as I saw this mess coming miles off. I just hope to Christ they get it sorted before even more firms and jobs go. #bloodymess
  • 12 1
 @jclnv: or people who have had an ‘easier time’ as baby boomers who have little to lose now they are retired or approaching it and who want to hark back to a little englanders utopia where we are ‘great again’ all while ignoring the government led statistics that say it’s all going to go to shit?
  • 8 9
 @justanotherusername: Yes, as my parents often say to me, 50’s, 60’s, 70’s England was an amazing time. Before neoliberal globalists outsourced the economy etc. I’m sure North Americans feel the same.

We’ll see where the economy goes. Many economists say the EU is going down the shitter regardless of Brexit.
  • 17 0
 @jclnv: Non-elected? What are these European elections for then? And with ”unelected” you mean people like BJ, who with his stance represent a small part of the UK, elected by the members of a party (a few thousand, I recall)?
Don’t forget, the leave vote is divided into “no deal” and “deal”, which makes “remain” the largest group. BJ is pushing an agenda, which was not voted for by a large margin.
This argument that you didn’t vote for members of the European Parliament is the same BS. It’s the same situation that a voter in Newcastle has very little influence, who is voted for in Cornwall. They are both a small part of the parliament and the UK government/Parlament has 1000 of bureaucrats.
So please, stop with the lies.
  • 8 12
flag jaame (Oct 10, 2019 at 0:09) (Below Threshold)
 @jclnv: I was anti brexit, then when I grew tired of hearing all the moaning I switched to pro-brexit. Now it's here I'm kind of thing "What the f* going to happen!?"
It's an exciting and slightly stressful time. We could end up in a better place or a worse place, and no one knows which it's going to be! No one knows. A lot of people obviously think they know, but they don't.
  • 23 3
 @jclnv: “Life experience” otherwise read as miserable old twats. Taking away opportunities from the youth of today that they have benefited from their entire adult lives. Remembering a time before the EU, bollocks. The UK joined the EU in 1973 before the vast majority of the UK population were economically active, so their rose tinted memories of a time before the EU are playing in the street. I suppose mobile phones, play stations, the demise of the milk man are all the fault of the EU too? Over & above all the economic arguments & hidden racist agendas I’ll just leave this here ...

74 years of peace.
  • 3 0
 @GZMS: What jobs, all the Kiwi's come to Australia to find jobs haha
  • 6 19
flag bowski123 (Oct 10, 2019 at 0:19) (Below Threshold)
 @josh250: josh ur an idiot m8. would you rather have to deal with over population and services being more crippled than they are already , which uk already is but it would be a lot worse. crime is so high nowerdays was never like this in the 80s and 90s .and you cant make ur own laws. yea sounds a great future to me .
  • 14 1
 @bowski123: statistically violent crime per head was at its highest in the 80s - much higher than now.

We can’t make our own laws? Like ruling on the proroguing of parliament?

Crippling of services? Analysis has shown immigration is not the cause of strain on the NHS for example, lack of funding and mismanagement is, it also showed that without immigration the NHS would be brought to its knees as we don’t have enough qualified nurses and doctors.

Try looking some things up rather than going on ‘feeling’?
  • 8 23
flag bowski123 (Oct 10, 2019 at 0:25) (Below Threshold)
 @Mudgey: it comes down to weather you want to do something or want something done for you. hence why the so called younger generation wanted to remain . cos there f*cking lazy and want hand-outs. I voted leave cos my time is done my life does not matter but my lil girls does. I want her to be able to have a functioning country whit decent services that she will be paying for with her taxes. bout time yall stopped thinking about yourselves.
  • 4 12
flag bowski123 (Oct 10, 2019 at 0:27) (Below Threshold)
 @expat-taff: you just said a pile of shit m8
  • 23 1
 @bowski123: Never go full retard.
  • 12 0
 @bowski123: You should probably learn to read and write before engaging in a written argument.
  • 3 0
 @jclnv: Of course. Post WWII food rationing ended 1954. Great time, these swinging 50s! But I ask you this, in what way would 0% tariffs bring British manufacturing jobs back? This is aimed to keep prices down so people can still buy stuff, produced abroad, with lower environmental/social/safety etc concerns. With such measures, BJ wants to keep the economy going via the high street, not manufacturing.
  • 5 1
 @bowski123: well let’s hope you are right eh? Maybe you should have asked your daughters opinion though, she probably has a better understanding of brexit and the English language than yourself.
  • 4 1
 @bowski123: With what taxes will these services be paid for, if you put zero taxes on imports? You hope that other countries will buy British stuff? What would that be? What does the UK actually produce that other countries can get in various places? The "great deal" Trump promised the UK is based on that the US will sell stuff to the UK, and you will send a few actors back. "Great deals" means low taxes for these guys, which results in little income to the government to pay those services you want for your daughter. What there is now is not perfect and needs a lot of work, but these promises that are thrown around from either side are just based on no logic at all and we are buying it.
  • 25 2
 @jclnv: OK so I am calling BS on this whole narrative. You can bother to read it if you want, appreciate you wouldnt

1) When the UK ruled the world (allegedly) it did so at the expensive of millions of poorer people in the sub continent (see Empire).

2) The "glory days" the Baby Boomers want to take us back to dont exist any more. There is no one reason, one golden bullet or some fancy time machine that can un do the effects of globalisation, increased movement of people and technological automation.

3) Most of the claims "we dont build anything anymore" are largely because those jobs cannot be supported in an economy as advanced as ours (and yea, in convenient truth, despite the whole woah is me persona of the UK press we are still in the top 5-10% of every list of wealth, development, GDP, living standard etc). It is cheaper to get it built elsewhere, the globe (not just the UK) is a largely capitalist society and unless the other 7 billion of us all suddenly decide to throw the concept in the bin it aint gonna change. Suddenly cutting ties with our closest trading partners (which no deal will mean) is the political equivalent of holding your breath and stamping your feet because you arent getting your own way

4) Successive government have sought to blame the EU for issues that are actually of their own making, as its easier. Most of the problems people sight are actually due to direct of central government investment rather than the EU.

5) Everyone moans about immigration, poles coming and taking all our jobs etc. Do you really think when we have to become the global whore to offset loss of easy trade with the EU the likes of Indian and China arent going to request or require similar freedom of movement or migration benefits?

6) There is this really dangerous perception that we can do this because we won the f&&king war. Well yea we did, and fair play to the generation (most of which are now dead) that fought the good fight for us (as well as the thousands of Americans, French, Canadian, Indian, Australian etc etc that died helping us out). We are not at war anymore, the world has moved on and we are still banging on about it. The Lion will probably not roar, its spent way too long dining out on past victory and has become way too fat.

Appreciate I am wasting my breath here, I have tried to see things from the other side of the fence and the EU is by no means without fault. However, looking at the whole I can make the benefits stack up against the risk
  • 21 0
 @bowski123: are there you have it folks. Misinformation, probably scraped from someone’s Facebook post or the front page of the Sun, splurged incoherently onto an Internet forum as the divine truth. The same nonsense that has dragged large parts of the UK down into a gelatinous hatepit of shit slinging and vitriol and taken Scotland out of the EU against it’s will. Cheers for that bowski
  • 6 2
 @mitochris: this is something that worries me, "we can trade freely with U.S and China" we're being told is a benefit of brexshit. the U.S.. drumpfs 'america first'... what are they gonna buy from us? OR what they gonna sell to us? China.. the worlds biggest mass producer of pretty much every fkng thing!! again what are they gonna buy or sell....?

leaving the EU's trade tarrifs isn't about selling joe blogs nuts an bolts to the U.S and/or China, seems like it's about allowing thier sub standard foods and products into the U.K as the Gov sell off the last of our public services like the Awesome and Great NHS.
  • 7 0
 @usmbc-co-uk: Well said, and I would like to add to your point 5) that apparently, the largest groups of immigrants into the UK came from outside of the EU, which will not change by leaving the EU.
  • 3 0
 @mitochris: I am glad somebody raise this point - it would be interesting to see how upset people get when immigration from non-EU countries actually increase in the event of us making trade agreements with them that inevitably include movement of people.....
  • 5 7
 @justanotherusername: I don't think they will get upset. It's the remain side that's getting upset, almost exclusively, from what I can see.
  • 4 0
 @jaame: you are proposing the ‘remain side’ will be more upset about any increase in immigration if that were to take place?

Wtf? - the whole premise of the point is that some voted brexit to reduce immigration - read what you have just written man!
  • 8 0
 @justanotherusername: they don’t read what others say mate, they just burry their heads and keep repeating themselves

I am fully open to sit down and have someone convince me with rational evidence based arguments about the benefits of cutting loose. So long as it’s based on fact or at least has some credible source behind it

Sadly the whole leave narrative is propped up by Mr Gove saying people have grew tired of the views of experts, which (fundamentally) undermines the whole process of objective thought. There are much bigger and dangerous things working subtly behind the scenes in all of this about how people are being controlled and manipulated to benefit a few billionaires betting against the pound
  • 3 3

I thought you meant people were already upset, and they will get more upset than they already are if there is extra-eu immigration.

I meant that the people who are upset already are the remainers, not the leavers. In the case of extra-eu immigration, they will probably be happy about it.

I admit, I didn't read your post very well. I was too quick to point the finger at the people who are getting upset at this particular time.
  • 2 6
flag jaame (Oct 10, 2019 at 2:06) (Below Threshold)
 @commentsectiontroll: it's not burry, it's bury and I admit it, I only skim read it.

Your argument still stands though. They (we) all bury our heads and never really try to understand others' points of view. Not just in Brexit, but in life in general.

The majority of people are pretty self-centred. It's not that we are incapable of understanding alternative views. It's just that we aren't really interested in doing so. When it comes down to it, arguing about Brexit is like arguing about which is better - bananas or that other fruit that no one has tried yet that's just been discovered in the amazon, when everyone thought it was extinct. One of them we know what it looks like, how much it costs and what it does. The other one we know nothing about and some people think it's going to be a lot better than bananas. In reality, we can probably live off both. It will work itself out.
  • 6 2
 @jaame: everybody is upset, the referendum was called due to upset, won due to upset and is being delayed due to upset.

Everybody is upset, tribal and seemingly incapable of compromise or viewing or fact / reading, blinded by upset or need to ‘win’
  • 6 0
 @jaame: so your argument that no deal brexit will work itself out is some people have facts and analysis, some have feeling and conjecture but they both carry equal validity when making a decision as important as the future of the UK?
  • 6 1
 @usmbc-co-uk: 6) Don't forget all the Polish that helped us win the war, which is EXACTLY the reason why we have such close ties with them and exactly why they feel safe coming over here - its this sort of information that should have been put out by the political remainers as part of their marketing campaign - actually scratch that they didn't have a marketing campaign which is why we are in this mess.
  • 6 0
 @jaame: I can see your point but taking your analogy, you want to bite into an unknown fruit that is going next to loads of other toxic fruits and you have no idea what you are letting yourself into. Wouldn't you want to do a tox-screen first? I was surprised how close the vote was, given what vile rhetoric is used by the majority of the British press towards Europe and everything foreign.
But from a political point of view, I feel it is better to be a strong, large block that acts together to make changes for the good. (Before someone shouts, the vast majority of rulings in the EU went in UKs favour.) I fear that the UK will have very little leverage to negotiate any deals, given that it is standing with its back to the wall/cliff.
  • 2 0
 @Powderface: "never go full retard". I wish I could up vote this comment a hundred times lol.
  • 2 0
 @GZMS: its all the wrong way down here mate, our government is a shambles on either side.
  • 2 2
 @mitochris: Not me, per se. I did not vote, because I wasn't here. I also missed all the campaigning. Had I voted, I would have voted to stay, but I'm not emotionally invested in that. It's not that big of a deal to me either way. Staying looks to be better to me, but I am only one. Others have their lives, experiences and reasons too.

So it is not me personally who wants to bite into the hypothetical unknown fruit. Some people may want to do that. And if those people are in the majority, which in this case they are, then I will accept it. Even though I love bananas, I am also open to the possibility that there may be something else even better than bananas. People all over the world eat different things. It's not like bananas are the only fruit. I just hope that the hypothetical fruit does not turn out to be a durian.

@just... my point is not in the details about "facts and analysis" (and I use the term loosely). It's about one person, one vote. Respect for the outcome.

There should never have been a vote. The government should have never called a referendum, especially if it didn't intend to honour the outcome if it didn't go according to plan. That's my view on the whole affair. Cameron f*cked it when he made that referendum promise that got him elected, but if he didn't do that he maybe would have never been PM. I don't know the details because I wasn't here. I was also worried about my house and family getting bombed by the Communist Party of China as a result of the presidential election in Taiwan (which in my opinion is a bigger issue than Brexit from a humanitarian perspective). Why did I mention that? I guess to say that, there are a lot of people in the world in a much worse situation than a no deal Brexit. Literally millions of people are starving, displaced, eating tainted food, in danger of exploitation and famine, etc etc etc.

I've literally seen children as young as my own children sifting through garbage trying to find food, or something to sell to support their families.

The world is full of shit.

Then I moved back over here in July to find this fractured society, two tribes at each other's throats about a seemingly innocuous issue. It says more about the nature of men than we can ever articulate. On one hand I think society will take a long time to heal from this injury. On the other hand I believe as soon as Brexit is in the past, there will be something else that has the same effect, tribalising society and causing conflict. Always has been, always will be.

So no, I'm not in favour of Brexit, but I accept it.
  • 5 0
 @jaame: The elected representative Jo Cox was shot dead by a man shouting Britain First, whom she had angered with her remain stance and views. It is shockingly ignorant that you claim that the 'remain' side are the most upset, when the 'leavers' are literally committing murder.

A few months ago when the brexit political party launched there were representatives in my local high street yelling at anyone who disagreed with their views, or just didn't want to talk or take a leaflet. Such behaviour is entirely reprehensible, and cannot possibly represent any kind of progress.
  • 2 1
 @nojzilla: "majority of you" in this case meaning people who were smart enough to go and vote. If you weren't smart enough to go and vote then that's on you. Stop complaining and lie in the bed you've made.
  • 3 1
 @Larkey1: I did vote.........................
I will complain in a free democracy and I will not lie down when the signing of article 50 was based on a disshonesty
  • 3 2
 @LarusFuscus: Another problem we have is tarring everyone with the same brush. I am guilty of it too, I admit. To say that one (1) singular murder was committed by "Leavers" (a plural) is a bit much.

I agree with you about some of those street publicity events. They do seem to be run by scum, for scum. Unfortunately for wider society, one scummy person still has one vote. Perhaps we should be asking ourselves why so many people turn out to be scumbags - and there are a lot of them here you have to admit.

I was coming back from Holland on a plane the other day (want to get all my travel done before all the planes fall out of the sky on 1st November) and was unfortunate enough to be seated near a man who was pretty much commenting on everything he saw or experienced on that plane, and swearing a lot. Yuk! When he walked into the cabin, the first thing he said was "Ugh! It f*cking stinks in here." But that man has one vote.

So, should we change the system to weight the voting, or rig the elections, or manipulate it in some other way like happens all over the world? Or should we try to educate the masses to not be c*nts? Both? Something else? I don't have the answers and sadly, I don't think anyone else has either.
  • 5 1
 @jclnv: The 50's, 60's and 70's? When the UK's economy and industry collapsed, the four day work week was implemented, the troubles were in full swing and inflation and unemployment were at record levels. What a time to aspire to!
  • 1 6
flag sumarongi (Oct 10, 2019 at 11:47) (Below Threshold)

Yup NZ is a basket case right now. Perfect case why feminist SJW women should never be allowed to lead
  • 4 0
 @bowski123: I appreciate your view but sadly mate I think your daughters future is most in jeopardy because she’s got an "idiot” like you as her father "mate”. Britain was drab, grey and miserable for many years and although I’m so proud of what our ancestors laid down for us, I’m also so glad we became more European and we are a melting pot otherwise we’d all be left eating pies and gravy, milling in car parks on a Friday night and telling immigrants to get out!! How many world wars have there been in the last hundred years and him many Millions of people died??? Anything that destabilises a continent is bad news and sadly money is what people get most worked up about... it’s going to destabilise us and likely the rest of the world... so yeah we’re f*cked right now but our children will have it a lot worse. You’re a bigot. Cheers
  • 3 3
 @josh250: One reason brexit has been inflated to such a scale of importance in the minds of many is perhaps because we have been living in peace for too long.
Not many people alive today realise how good they've got it. Everything has been handed to them on a plate for their entire lives. Me too. I've never had a day in my life when I didn't know whether or not there was going to be any food on the table. Even when I was trekking at Everest Base Camp I paid someone to feed me. Everyone's gone soft. So perhaps if we have it hard for a few years, our children will learn about hardship and grafting to put food on the table, which will give them a competitive advantage when they hit 30.
  • 1 0
 @Mudgey: oh man sorry to hear that! My wife’s business got really hit hard so she decided to jump before she was pushed as what she was selling were just luxuries and it really slowed down. With a baby on the way it just made sense to get out of there but I sincerely hope you can ride the wave and see it through, go for it!! Cheers bro
  • 5 0
 @jaame: Jesus Christ man, you have a strange viewpoint on life don’t you?

Your saying if brexit brings hardship to the point where the young don’t have sufficient food to eat it will be a good thing because they will be more competitive in the future?

Do you think about anything before you write it?
  • 2 0
 @justanotherusername: Well he's got a point, the ones that make it will be ruthless little buggers.
  • 4 0
 @jaame: you are the epitome of the privileged saying how those less fortunate should be happy to live - ‘paid someone to feed you at Everest base camp’ - Give your head a wobble. Some people struggle to put food on the table now, increases in food banks prove that, you really do sound like a total dipshit.
  • 2 0
 @jaame: well if you’re right mate I hope they’re able to get through it but personally I’d choose prevention over cure.

The current generation coming through education earn more, work more hours, drink less, do less drugs and have significantly less teenage pregnancies. They’re not perfect but neither is any generation. The reason crime is so high is because there isn’t any money for police.... that’s not the eu’s fault, it’s our old boys club government that feed us on lies and misinformation and don’t allocate money properly. We’re one of the richest countries in the world, of South American countries have better health care and can afford more police to fight serious crime, surely we can afford to more police to help fight our crimes and make it so we don’t need to start eating spam from time.
  • 2 0
 @josh250: if that f*ckwits dream comes true I can’t imagine crime will fall as a result, after all of you are struggling to feed yourself you will take any options available, that’s OK though, think of how though it will make people.
  • 3 2
 @justanotherusername: I didn't say that. I said that even when I was in one of the romotest locations on earth, I was still priveged enough to know I was going to eat. I was in such a privileged position, I was able to pay someone else to carry my food, cook it, and give it to me. I've never known real hardship. Most people in my generation haven't. That's why they care so much about Brexit. To a lot of people, something like brexit is not worth even thinking about, because they literally have to find food to eat every day. We are very lucky to be in a position to be even worrying about it. That's what I mean. Reality check. No one is going to die if we leave without a deal. And if it does all go to shit, every cloud has a silver lining. I'm not a glass half empty kind of guy, clearly unlike yourself.
And by the way, you're means you are. Your means your.
  • 2 0
 @jaame: People won’t die in the event of no deal brexit? They know people died due to austerity and that would be worse - you really have no idea, do you?

Again, do you even think before you type? You said if or children have hardship that will make them more competitive in the future - many people live in hardship now, as in struggle to feed their families. Not everybody gets a waiter to accompany them on a middle class excursion to base camp to find themselves, they are already busy trying to make ends meet.

Thank you for the grammatical correction, I am replying to you on a phone but it really added to the topic in hand, very well done.
  • 2 5
 @justanotherusername: I don't believe most of the stuff in the news. All the stuff that might happen. The only way to find out what's going to happen is to do it. Some people seem to take as gospel all the "studies" and "facts" about what's going to happen. I've been witness to so many so-called facts in the media in my life that have later been disproved. So I have a hard time believing any of it frankly. Suddenly medicine will run out! Schools will explode! Hospitals will fall into the ground! The position we're in is that some people including myself don't believe the forecasts. That, or they think the negative aspects of Brexit outweigh the positives. I don't really agree with that, but I am open to the possibility that something good might happen again one day if we leave without a deal. Who are we to tell those leave voters their beliefs are worth less than ours? That their reasons are invalid?

I don't want my kids to starve, I don't want a Chinese communist government. I did not say those things.
You inferred them. However, there is more than one way to skin a cat, everything is not black and white.
I'm not trying to argue the whys and wherefores of Brexit detail. I'm trying to say that a no-deal Brexit is not the end of the world. I could be wrong, but I have seemingly a lot more faith in the ingenuity and adaptability of humans than you have. People are not going to roll up and die in their homes if we don't get a deal. Some might, but if that's the case they probably would have done it anyway.

You've made your mind up about this and you're not interested in considering anything else. You are only capable of looking at it from your own perspective. I'm open to hearing people's arguments, and as a true liberal I accept and respect everyone's POV. Have you noticed how civil I have been with you? No name calling or rude personal comments?

About the grammar thing, I had to mention it because you've called me a few names and asked me if I think before I type. You also told me I have no idea. It's not very civil. It's actually quite condescending. That's why I found it ironic that such a supercilious individual doesn't know the difference between your and you're. If it makes you feel any better, a lot of people make the same mistake, so you're not alone at least.
  • 3 0

You sum up pretty much every leave voter.
  • 2 0
 @jaame: agree that the truth is somewhere in the middle and neither remain nor leave will (hopefully) have as stark consequences as many paint them. Life will go on, somehow.

But what worries me is not the immediate result, but rather what it means on the higher level. Current generations don't remember the war, don't understand that the unification was brought about to make the war less likely in the future. And one of the main facilitators for war is particularism. The EU is a largely unprecedented mind blowing effort of people who saw what particularisms and divisions can bring.

I'm worried that people no longer understand why this huge effort happened. Even in my country, where you still see memories of war pretty much everywhere. People use this to build hate, because it's easier.

I'm sure the UK will survive somehow, but I'm worried we're losing something much bigger and extremely important in the process.
  • 7 1
 This sounds like a nightmare. Having 0% tax favours cheap labour imports, and blocks local businesses. The gov is then relying on the British people to spend money to keep money coming into the state, as its not making anything on duties. This is killing British manufacturing. We have to protect national business from cheap, low regulation/security etc imports, if you don’t want to go the same way. This is a race to the bottom, in my view.
  • 2 0
 I concur. It's a pretty bad idea.
  • 7 1
 So from the whole Brexit mess the ONLY bit of good news is that bicycles will be a bit cheaper?

Does this balance out the negatives of leaving with a No Deal:

A decade or more of negative/stagnent growth in GDP and wages.
Medical supply shortages.
Food shortages.
More expensive holidays abroad.
The dilution/breakup of the NHS (Trump is demanding this as part of any US trade deal).
A hard border in Ireland, which breaks the Good Friday Agreement and could lead to a return to 'The Troubles'.

In basic terms we'll be poorer, have limited food, medical supplies (insulin and cancer drugs are the main issues) and possibly be at war with one of our neighbours (officially or unofficially with the IRA).

Bikes may be cheaper but we won't be able to afford them.
  • 8 2
 You cannae buy our votes that easy tories i'll gie ye a scottish quid and a punch in the face which is more than or equal to £2 sterling.
  • 12 9
 Example, prices on commercials go up while "fun meng yen" bikes go down. Despite both brands being made in Taiwan an more than likely coming over on the same ship............
Because immurgrunts
  • 8 3
 'Commencals' stoopid auto correct
  • 7 21
flag jclnv (Oct 9, 2019 at 22:41) (Below Threshold)
 @nojzilla: lol So you picked one brand who builds boat anchor bikes over the countless other better options that will be cheaper.

If that’s the consequence of reduced mass immigration I don’t think you’ll win many arguments with the majority of English.
  • 8 0
 @jclnv: Talking about the one that won the overall last year and was close to a repeat this year?
Can I get an anchor please?
  • 3 10
flag jclnv (Oct 9, 2019 at 23:14) (Below Threshold)
 @EnduroManiac: Yep, anchors go down hills pretty good it seems. Or maybe it’s just the guy riding it.
  • 16 8
 @jclnv: don't believe everything you read about us, it's only a small racist minority that don't wan't immigration. our food,NHS and care industries depend on hard working migrants that do the jobs lazy english dossers won't. And despite what you've heard about brexshit being the "will of the people" only one quarter of the populace voted to leave. same for the house of commons hence, why brexshit has been a major f*ck up. The majority of the country doesn't really want it
  • 6 21
flag jclnv (Oct 9, 2019 at 23:36) (Below Threshold)
 @nojzilla: Rubbish.

Actually the vote to leave was the largest democratic vote in English history. Those racist dossers sure were motivated to vote. I bet you if there was another vote now it would be a landslide, just like a general election would be in favour of Boris.

Maybe if the UK labour market wasn’t flooded with migrants willing to work for peanuts the NHS would have to pay wages that might get these dossers off the sofa? Also if you believe the science on AI job replacement the UK would cut all immigration because in 10 years there are going to be millions unemployed.
  • 5 1
 @jclnv: ‘reduced mass immigration’

So, the reason you are willing to commit to economic insecurity (putting it mildly - this is using the current governments own reports) is to lower immigration?

Though I will agree unchecked movement can cause certain economic issues in its own right, I hope you have a good plan for how to replace many of these immigrants in the work place that doesn’t involve taking people from non EU countries in replacement? (That’s a plan btw, what do you think a FTA with non EU countries will come with?)
  • 7 0
 @jclnv: "the NHS would have to pay wages that might get these dossers off the sofa?"

Are you seriously suggesting that there are doctors and nurses sitting on their arses and not working because the wages are too low?
  • 2 9
flag jclnv (Oct 9, 2019 at 23:52) (Below Threshold)
 @justanotherusername: I’m sure mass immigration is a large factor for many who have seen the social cohesion in their towns and cities fractured. I guess some people place more worth on cultural identity than how much money they have?

See my last paragraph above to answer your question. Maybe look at Japan for an example. Close to zero immigration and miraculously a functioning economy and a very low crime rate.
  • 13 0
 @jclnv: but we are not Japan?

And define ‘mass immigration’ and how brexit will stop what you are seeing?

Our government (yes the current one) have powers within the EU to restrict immigration - have you looked this up? Other EU countries operate a worker registration system, if the person doesn’t find work within 3 months or are self sufficient they cannot stay.
The conservative government could have also looked more closely into the labour market and laws, preventing cash employment and paying less than minimum wage. They could have also looked into multi person occupancy.

None of this was done, all while austerity took place and you think that the EU shoulder the blame for that? We need to look in the mirror.
  • 6 1
 @jclnv: "Maybe look at Japan for an example. Close to zero immigration and miraculously a functioning economy"

Japan? The country with 20 odd years of economic stagnation? Even in the last 10 years their economy has only grown a tiny amount. They face huge issues with their aging workforce. You know what might help fix that? Immigration...

"and a very low crime rate."

What's your point? Are you blaming immigration for the crime? You know the UKs crime rate has being falling since 1995 and are now even lower than they were in the 1980s.
  • 5 9
flag jclnv (Oct 10, 2019 at 0:13) (Below Threshold)
 @justanotherusername: Mass immigration is where a large population of similar cultural or nationality live within a foreign country and don’t assimilate. It’s divisive and erodes social cohesion. Funny enough the only other place it happens is in prisons.

Yes I’m aware of the current situation regarding immigration. People were clearly sick of nothing being done by countless corrupt governments flooding the country with cheap foreign labour. Brexit was clearly a reaction to that as was the election of Trump.
  • 5 3
 @nojzilla: I love how you speak for everyone. You are one man. Why do you claim to know the mind of everyone?
  • 9 0
 @jclnv: so how does brexit solve your issue if you are aware that the issue exists because of factors within the ‘corrupt’ UK governments control?

You have unraveled your own argument. All feeling, no fact.
  • 11 2
 @jclnv: You keep referring to English vote, England leaving and England before the EU. Can England just f*ck off with all its little Englanders and leave the rest of us in the EU then please. You can all apply for visas when you want to come ride in Scotland or Wales.
  • 4 5
 @expat-taff: that's another good point. I've got an old passport full of visas from when I visited countries that weren't in the EU and guess what? I'm still here.
  • 7 1
 @jaame: how are you reading that? simple fact.. only one quarter of the populace voted leave.
speaking from experience not many of the people I know are racist but, a few are.. and guess how they voted...........?
speaking from experience, ALL of the migrants in my work place (an Alu foundry) are hard working. ALL of the dossers are white engish.... an guess how they voted
  • 5 2
 @jaame: what does brexit have to do with visiting other countries?
  • 2 5
 @justanotherusername: "what does brexit have to do with visiting other countries?"
I don't know wether to LOL or face palm at this...............
  • 5 6
 @nojzilla: As you may have noticed, I'm not emotionally invested in the brexit affair. I was in Taiwan for ten years, was going to vote remain but then I found out I wasn't on the electoral register. At that point all the media was claiming remain was winning 60-40 so I thought f*ck it, I can't be arsed to register to vote, remain is going to win by a healthy margin anyway. And then leave won, which proves the media is heavily biased and wanted to influence the vote. I've just moved back to this tribal society that is trying to eat itself, and have grown tired of hearing all the moaning about semantics. You're just another example of it. If you play a game, fully understanding the rules and outcomes, then you lose, you have to accept the outcome. It's part of being an adult. There are a lot of things I don't agree with going on in the world. I have learned to accept them. Brexit is not ideal, but the fact is, leave won by the rules that were laid out before the game started. The people who refuse to accept that with their myriad arguments about the people were hoodwinked, it was only a quarter of the population, there are two leave camps so really remain is the biggest camp, blah blah blah. Like it or not, and personally I'm not really bothered either way to be honest, the result of the vote has to be honoured. It's black and white as far as I'm concerned. Honour the vote.
  • 7 2
 @jclnv: I really don’t have a lot of time for anyone being anti-immigration when they’re one of the ancestral Europeans living on either American continent. The white man has no right to keep people out of “his” country after the appalling colonial behaviour of the past few centuries.
  • 3 0
 @jaame: but what model of ‘leave’ is acceptable / realistic considering the reality of the situation?

As a staunch remain voter I still accept leave won, but I don’t accept no deal as being an acceptable scenario, the leaders that head the conservative government don’t (or at least are on record a saying they didn’t) think it’s acceptable, their figures show it isn’t acceptable, even Farage didn’t think it was acceptable.
  • 1 0
 @nojzilla: are you being serious or do you have your meaning or the term ‘visit’?

What does brexit have to do with visiting other countries?

Working in / living in another country does not fall under the term ‘visit’ unless you want to warp the word to strengthen your own misguided position?
  • 1 4
 @justanotherusername: expat taff said the English will need a visa to ride in Wales or Scotland. To which I commented that it's fine to get a visa to travel to other countries. There are different kinds of visa too. Work visa is one of them. Visit visa is another. For example, when I went to work in Australia I had a working holiday visa. If I need a visa to go riding in Wales, I'll get the visa.
There is only one country in the world where anyone can go and work without a visa, and that's America.
  • 11 4
 @jaame: basically... NO
I will not honer the vote
one point some thing percent is not a majority,
one point something percent in NON legally binding referendum is just a gauge of public opinion and nothing more
in that non legally binding gauge of public opinion roughly two thirds of the populace voted meaning that roughly one quarter of the populace voted leave....
not a majority in any way and not "the will of the people"

I work as a quality engineer in an alu foundry an it's part of my job to speak to customers and suppliers on the daily. They are having the same brexshit concerns that our company has and also the same dwindling orderbooks that our company has. We used to go through around 100tonnes of Alu a month an since brexshit I've seen that go down to around 50 tonnes an now down to around 25-30 tonnes per month.
We did very well to make it through the 2008 crash, we even picked up a lot of work from other foundry's that closed but, since the referendum. Work is getting slower an slower an slower. So you can see where my concerns, opinions and experience is based in. The REAL world not project fear.

I will not ever believe that 1/4 is a majority over 3/4 (of a populace)

I will never believe that brexshit is the will of the people

I will never "respect" the result of a non legally biding referendum that carried out before our gov had any fkng clue what leaving the EU really meant, in that some people voted on false issues an fake news

I belive what I see around me in the real world
  • 2 0
 @jaame: so again, what does brexit have to do with ‘visiting’ other countries?
  • 2 4
 @justanotherusername: I don't get your meaning. Can you rephrase the question? I was answering expat taff, who said the English will need visas to visit Wales and Scotland, if Wales and Scotland find themselves in the EU without England at a later date. I replied, if I need to get a visa I will get a visa. That's it. It has nothing to do with Brexit. I'm trying to say that Brexit will not make any real world difference to visiting other countries. And should people want to come to work in the UK, they will need a visa, much like they do to work in the 160 countries that are not in the EU today. And if the British, or English, or whatever they are in the future, want to work in other countries then they will need to get the visa, like they already do to work in the 160 countries that are not in the EU today. I admit, if you are one of the people who wants to go and work in an EU country, then Brexit is going to be a PITA unless you have some skills that someone actually wants.

I'm guessing by your posts you are a Brit in Canada, in which case you know all about visas - so I don't really get your meaning. I was simply replying to someone else's post about Wales and Scotland.

@nojzilla .put the shoe on the other foot. Remain won by 2%. If Farage and all the rest were still going on about how they want a people's vote three years later would you stand with them and say it wasn't a majority? Of course not! Because you would have got what you wanted. I am literally laughing as I type this. I put it to you that you would have moved on with your life, and my guess is the leave voters would have also moved on with their lives too. One thing about being old is they tend to behave more like adults - and that means accepting it when you lose.
  • 3 0
 @jaame: Thanks for that, at least you agree its nothing to do with Brexit.

As for your point to nojzilla - Farage said himself that if the vote went 52/48% then there would be 'unfinished business'.

Im not sure the economic / societal stability of a nation is particularly a laughing matter and do you really expect people to 'move on with their lives' when Brexit hasn't actually come to any form of conclusion - you want him to just ignore what is happening and 'move on with life, even when the government that is pushing for a no deal has come to its own conclusion that it will be bad for the country?
  • 3 2
 @jaame: Again.... Don't make assumptions of me...

farage himself said that if the result isn't an overwhelming majority there should be another referendum. Guess what his bias would've been.........................
well one point something percent isn't overwhelming in any ones standard, so... another referendum yes? by farage's own words......? nah didn't think so

playing the 'grown up adults' card is foolish unless your willing to live up to that your self

and as for 'win or loose' a referendum is not a football match,it's not "we scored one more than you so we win YAY" it is a NON legally binding gauge of public opinion. WE are all on the same side an ultimately we all loose in a failing economy
  • 2 1
 @nojzilla: I think it would have buried Farage to be honest. The powers that be are all on the remain side. Arguing with them when he lost would have been futile. It would have been six weeks, then no TV exposure, then shut up Nigel. Just go home. End of story.
  • 2 1
 @justanotherusername: Rightly or wrongly, my take on it is that most of the people who voted leave just wanted to leave. They didn't think about the details. They didn't care about the details. They still don't. They just voted on a hypothetical question. It should not have been done. They should never have been given a vote on something so unpredictable and completely unknowable. It was a major blunder by the government.

Unfortunately I believe that now the vote has happened it must be honoured, because that is what's right.
  • 1 0
 @jaame: Fair point, that is trying to get into the head of over 17 million people though - all of which were told by those including Farage and others now advocating for no deal that getting a deal would be easy, and that leaving without a deal would be failure - their words, they were also told things would be better, not just the same but better when leaving, something our own leave government disputes with its own figures.

Common sense at some point must prevail, can we seriously debase the whole situation to now leaving without a deal as being the only course of action, a sensible, compromise Brexit deal is what is logically required to get this done so we can move on, its surely the only way - I just don't know if the people who have the ability to make that happen have the desire to do so, everybody just wants to 'win' now, no compromise.
  • 1 1
 @justanotherusername: I don't think a deal is possible because of the reasons you say in your last clause.

It's now a case of leave without a deal, and honour the vote; or cancel the whole thing and betray the (tiny) majority.

It's an absolute f*cking mess that should never have come to pass. Politicians. They can't be trusted. Much as I dislike the Chinese Communist Party, and don' trust them, at least they are always playing the long game because they don't have to worry about getting reelected. In terms of the population as a whole, that's mostly good.
  • 2 0
 @jclnv: I always say, if you’re going to pontificate at length, always do it from an uninformed position of weakness. Thank you for confirming my point, you bellend.
  • 2 1
 @jaame: I would rather a democracy where politicians are free to stand up for what they believe in than a communist dictatorship in any form.

So in short, leave won, remain lost so leave at any cost because its the will of the people/ 'betrayal', politicians are all liars dont trust them to do anything and your way of resolving the whole situation; Chinese communism. Brilliant.
  • 4 2
Your a racist. And your "facts " are Total fantasy.
  • 4 1
 @justanotherusername: That's not what I meant. I meant the reason we are in this mess is because a politician wanted to further his political career, so he made a promise he should never have made. He took a gamble on the future of his country and the gamble didn't pay off. It wasn't his risk to take. He gambled with the future of 60-odd million people. And now we see more politicians making matters worse - and I think a lot of what we are seeing is MPs putting reelection above doing what is morally right (that being, executing the political will of the electorate).

I did not say that Chinese communism is a system I like. In fact, I think I said the opposite. My point is that politicians in China are not seeking re-election. In the UK, they are seeking re-election. That quest for re-election compromises their actions. Chinese politicians are unelected, and can therefore get on with the business at hand. Often the business at hand is a dirty business, yes. The point stands. They are not shackled by the four or five year cycles of election and re-election.

It's a big part of why China is winning at the moment, in my opinion.

There is too much back biting in a multi party system. That is one thing that's good about a one party system. Of course, there's a lot that's bad about it, too.
  • 2 8
flag jclnv (Oct 10, 2019 at 7:19) (Below Threshold)
 @threehats: Ah the classic Guardian reader self-loathing of your existence and ancestry. You may aswell end your pitiful existence now.

That ancestry that built the modern world, ended slavery and fought a global war against fascism.

Higher cultures will always exploit lower cultures. Humans wouldn’t have evolved without it. There are currently more slaves in Africa than anywhere else on the planet. Maybe you should pay them a visit and tell them how guilty they’re going to feel in the future.
  • 3 0
 @jclnv: hundreds of millions of people now should feel guilty about, and responsible for, the actions of a few thousand people a few hundred years ago. It's not difficult to understand.
  • 2 5
 @justanotherusername: so how does brexit solve your issue if you are aware that the issue exists because of factors within the ‘corrupt’ UK governments control?

You have unraveled your own argument. All feeling, no fact.

I already explained, people were powerless to the influx of mass immigration from the Blair years onwards. All political parties capable of winning an election were fully behind the continued influx of cheap foreign labour and more debt slaves for the banks. Thankfully a majority of public who can see through it, and the soft conditioning of the media that called anyone against it a racist, used the vote to leave the EU (the first time a vote with actual consequences had been given to the public) to say f*ck you to the government(s).

Not to mention the ambitions of the EU superstate and it’s gravy train of pointless career bureaucrats.
  • 5 1
 @jclnv: I think you are again mixing and matching as you like. First, have you looked recently at the British press? They are hardly all Guardians now. But anyway, the influx of foreigners to the UK did increase in the mid 90s, but there was already the beginning of an exponential curve from the mid 80s onwards. So pre Blair. Also, the majority is from non-EU countries. EU Immigration was rather stable until around 2004, but is still only one third of total immigration. Leaving the EU will not change this and the British gov could have prevented this all along within The regulation of the EU. And again, stop this nonsense about pointless career bureaucrats. It’s lame and incorrect.
  • 3 4
 @mitochris: Really?

Screw these narcissistic bureaucrat parasites and their superstate agenda. The whole thing will collapse within a couple years the UK leaving.
  • 3 0
 @jclnv: So, you believe that Brexit will solve your and your 'peoples' issues with immigration? (By people, you certainly, certainly don't speak for the majority, not all leave voters voted as they did because of immigration)

I take it you see all of the influx of cheap foreign labour as being from the EU then? How will you feel if there are deals with 3rd countries following Brexit that include movement of people - its very likely that it will - your own leave government has said so - that's cheap labour from places like India, China, etc.

Or are you one of the people that are concerned wit immigration that wrongly believe Brexit will also reduce the amount of certain minorities in this country not in the group of EU migrants?

Fantastic, you have said a f*ck you to the government, now men of the people like Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson, Dominic Cummings, Jacob Rees-mogg, Aaron Banks and Michael Gove can stand in your corner and create a UK better served to you and the people that feel the same way..... anything sound a little odd there? I mean there are only a few hedge funds, castles, billions of pounds and titles between them, they are just like you and they are definitely out for your best interests.

So in short, I told the government f*ck You and in the process f*cked myself, genius.
  • 3 0
 @jclnv: can you remind me how many bureaucrats the UK gov had to hire just to sort out Brexit until now? How many more do you think will come just to sort out customs? I agree with you that there should be no pay for accommodation just because you moved to Brussels, but MPs in the UK get the same benefit, and I disagree
With it there too. The EU is actually very efficient in number of people it needs to run. Consider all the people that are saved in all of the Union. We are 500 million. For that, the bureaucrat number is super small.
  • 3 0
 @mitochris: I recently read that all former prime ministers can claim up to £114,000 a year in expenses for life. That's pretty obscene if you ask me. I wish all former bike shop employees could claim up to £114 of free bike parts a year for life!
  • 7 1
 @mitochris: The irony of him complaining about the Guardian and then quoting an article from the Torygraph is laughable. As is totally ignoring the rest of your well made points. He's clearly just a right wing troll. Probably best ignored.
  • 1 1
 @nojzilla: That's rough, I hope your company pulls through.
  • 9 3
 I came here to escape from Brexit news!
  • 4 1
 I came here to see other countries view one it, especially those from across the pond.
  • 9 0
 @fatduke: @fatduke: Pinkbike is struggling to consider the true impact of a few clicks of low-speed brexit when combined with 2 or 3psi decrease in real terms IFP pressure.
  • 2 0
 Honestly I have no care re Brexit or UK politics in general. Whatever happens will happen, deal with it. Nothing the public do other than vote can influence anything, and personally I think voting is a waste of time anyway as it's all rigged, and whatever agreements/deals are made not everyone will be pleased, that's just impossible.

End of the day all politics is corrupt, the people can't change that. There's far more important things in live to worry about than all this rubbish.
  • 1 1
 Like who framed Rebekah Vardy?!
  • 3 0
 That's good, we'll all need cheap clunkers once we can't afford cars, or fuel. (Well those of us that still have jobs anyway).
  • 4 0
 Brexit ? Seriously who gives a f*ck ? This shitstorm was probably planned decades ago and is part of a bigger picture
  • 3 0
 Brexshit is hitting everything, its a complete disaster. Everything here will be more expensive as most bike parts are imported
  • 4 3
 As a Uk director of a large global org, I have to write a weekly Brexit update for my executive. In the years of trying to work out how it is going to play and out and what the impacts will be, I stupidly had not thought about coming to the Pinkbike forum where all the experts on the issue would be. Silly me:-)
  • 1 0
 What do people think of the CAP? As the EU spends nearly 40% of its budget on the CAP I'd imagine everyone with strong views about remaining or leaving would have strong opinions, or is it possible people don't understand how the EU actually works?
  • 1 0
 @notphaedrus me too! The last 3 years have been the most difficult in my 50 odd years. My other half is French and has been living in the UK for the last 30 years.. To find out that my parents voted out off the back of what they read in the daily fail, you know the one on the side of a bus where millions of brown faced Turks are heading our way... Anyway, we're planning my very own brexit and moving to the South of France.
  • 5 5
 This could be the best thing to happen with Brexit. Cheaper North American bikes is a good thing. As long as Trump doesn’t threaten Boris with having to import American cars as well it will be a win. Then again, Trump doesn’t do that sort of thing.....
  • 17 0
 It will barely compensate the fact that your currency dropped "a little" in the last 3 years.
  • 1 0
 @EnduroManiac: very true, unfortunately.
  • 2 0
 So as said, the cut in tariff will just about counter the current drop in the pound (more to come if its a no-deal) and will it be sustainable?

How does this work alongside WTO trade rules? Does this mean the government is essentially subsidising the economy by paying the tariffs for business?
  • 3 0
 @EnduroManiac: it's ok bud, I'm sure we'll still prop your resorts up with tourism. I'll just have to sell my bike though the next time I want a beer in Verbier!
  • 3 1
 Their will be no win with brexit, do not fool your selfs?
  • 3 0
 @aljoburr: didn’t you hear, brexit itself is the prize.
  • 2 0
 @EnduroManiac: it will go back up once the uncertainty is removed
  • 4 0
 Make american bikes again
  • 3 0
 This means a Nukeproof will be cheaper or more expensive or Brexit is totally out of scope?
  • 4 0
 It will be irrelevant as the arse will fall out of the £
  • 1 0
 That's mean I have not to wait christmas to buy a Hunt mountain carbon impact wheelset. Interested if someone has some feedback on it, Google only provide press release or/aka first look.
  • 3 0
 Ciao ciao Chain reaction!!! was always nice get package from you. We are going to miss you
  • 2 0
 Interesting that bikes might get cheaper, but no one will be able too afford to buy because of major increases in prices of everything else?
  • 4 0
 Have you ever seen the prices on bikes decrease for customers?!..
  • 4 0
 Ah who cares?..... Another beer anyone?
  • 1 1
 it doesn't help that a vast majority of the uk are actually stupid, and grew into a world where we don't fight for what we believe in, where we just say yes and shut up. They don't know any better. Schools don't teach anything about morals or economics. Or taxes, anything like that. if you're clever you go to uni, if youre not, you go to work. and even if you go to uni, you end up going to work except you have a massive debt. country is going down the pan, and the don't even get me started on the false media. the whole brexit campaign was based on lies, and Cameron even fought for it at first, then he changed his mind! how can you trust a PM thats all over the place?

Any who, here's Boris to save the day.
  • 4 0
 Can England go independent please?

  • 2 0
 only I can claim assylum pleeaase!
  • 1 0
 So how are the trails in Uruguay? For all involved here's hoping this won't be as bad as it seems. I would rather stress over climate, health and rights. This is a failed idea repeated,best wishes.
  • 3 0
 If anything can resolve the brexit impasse it is surely a Pinkbike debate on the subject.
  • 3 0
 Bloody 'ell, if most of these people posting decided to become politicians all of GB's problems would be solved......not
  • 3 0
 I can see a chainreaction backstop sale on the cards lol. ????
  • 1 0
 All the hardcore Brits will be on Knolly in two years Wink come on all you NA brands get in early - do export specials
  • 1 0
 I'm wondering if a EU company like Commencal that makes its bikes in Taiwan are subject to the 17% duty
  • 1 0
 Commencal are from Andorra, which is not an EU member
  • 1 0
 Depends on final senders location not production country
  • 1 0
 They need nukeproof bikes after the Brexit and the invasion by the BEST AND GREAT Europe.
  • 2 1
 So bikes from outside eu will be cheaper? Can we leave already then!? Thats the best reason to leave yet
  • 2 0
 I dont about you guys but i came here to ride bikes....
  • 2 0
 The last place I was expecting this topic to be a major subject
  • 1 0
 Bet that 17% 'saving' won't be removed from the purchase price for the buyer...
  • 1 0
 17% of non EU bikes!!!

Nobody is allowed to complain of expensive bikes from asia, Canada, or the USA after I ready that.
  • 1 0
 You would think some brands be offering pre order deals, show me the discounts
  • 2 1
 So help me understand, soviet union bad, european union good? Am I missing something?
  • 7 9
 ohhh...... another interesting Brexit fact! I haven't heard much about Brexit recently! But seriously, I go on my bike (or read about bike sh*t to get from crap like Brexit - Stop please
  • 1 1
 Riding bikes is what we do to get away from the world, coming on here to argue about politics is pathetic
  • 1 0
 Don't panic.......
  • 1 2
 theresa may is cancer
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