Le Dauphine has reported that a mountain biker was shot dead whilst riding within Montriond's village limits at around 18:00 on Saturday the 13th of October. The incident is most likely to have happened on the Super Morzine mountain, which is
inside an authorised hunting zone but has a lot of official and unofficial, well-used mountain bike trails.
According to a
Facebook page that local residents use, hunting has been suspended in Montriond until the end of the season because of the incident.
The mountain biker was shot by a 22-year-old hunter who was in a group of 6 other hunters. The young man is said to be in serious shock and has been hospitalised, but isn't in police custody. Although the Gendarmes are treating the incident as "aggravated manslaughter." The mountain biker is a British national and reportedly runs a restaurant in Les Gets.
The mountain biker has now been named as Marc Sutton, a 34-year-old originally from Caerphilly in Wales who had recently opened a vegan restaurant called Wild Beets Kitchen in Les Gets.
Our condolences and thoughts go out to the bereaved and other affected parties from this incident.
Update - Tuesday 16th October 2018.Le Dauphine has reported that initial investigations have revealed some new evidence about the incident.
[Translation by Google Translate]
"Un tir avait déjà été réalisé une dizaine de minutes avant le drame, vraisemblablement par l’auteur du tir mortel », indique le procureur de la République Philippe Toccanier, sans pour autant que la présence de gibier soit confirmée par les autres membres du groupe."A shot had already been made ten minutes before the tragedy, presumably by the author of the mortal fire, "says the prosecutor Philippe Toccanier, without the presence of game is confirmed by the other members of the group.
"Selon les premiers éléments de l’enquête, les chasseurs formaient une ligne parallèle au chemin dévalé par le cycliste au moment du drame. « Le vététiste était en lisière de forêt ; les chasseurs à une quarantaine de mètres dans la partie non boisée. » Pour le procureur, « la visibilité était totale ». D’autant que Mark Sutton était vêtu d’un tee-shirt de couleur vive et était équipé d’un vélo et d’un casque eux aussi colorés."According to the first elements of the investigation, the hunters formed a line parallel to the path hurtled by the cyclist at the time of the tragedy. "The mountain biker was on the edge of the forest; the hunters to forty meters in the unwooded part. For the prosecutor, "visibility was total". Especially since Mark Sutton was wearing a bright colored T-shirt and was equipped with a bike and a helmet they also colored.
"L’autopsie réalisée hier a révélé que le tir a transpercé latéralement le cycliste de 34 ans, « passant sous l’omoplate gauche pour ressortir au niveau de la clavicule droite ». Un élément qui écarte a priori l’hypothèse d’un tir fichant (dirigé vers le sol), l’une des principales recommandations sécuritaires.
La détermination du calibre utilisé était encore en cours hier. Mais 7x64 ou 30.06, « il s’agit de munitions de guerre, type kalachnikov, autorisées depuis 2013 » selon le parquet."The autopsy performed yesterday revealed that the shot pierced laterally the 34-year-old cyclist, "passing under the left shoulder blade to exit at the level of the right clavicle". An element that departs a priori the hypothesis of a fuse shooting (directed to the ground), one of the main security recommendations.
The determination of the caliber used was still in progress yesterday. But 7x64 or 30.06, "it is about ammunition of war, type Kalashnikov, authorized since 2013" according to the floor.
Link explaining the science behind why this terrible thing happens
www.fieldandstream.com/blogs/the-gun-nuts/how-hunting-accidents-happen
I don't know what happened here, but one man is dead and another man is in the hospital in distress. It's a tragedy. This should be a moment for sombre reflection, not to take to the nearest keyboard and blame the hunters without understanding what happened (and there isn't enough information available to understand what happened).
@gcrider: That's a good link, thanks. The case they mention sounds a lot like the accident that killed NZ trail builder, Dodzy...
On another occasion whilst visiting him the local hunters newsletter arrived whilst I was there. I seem to recall that there had been something like 40 injuries so far that year as a result of “stray bullets” and a few fatalities. That same trip whilst driving along a main road I witnessed another car pulled over, with the driver aiming a rifle out through the passenger window towards a field. Apparently a regular occurrence!
I could be wrong about this unfortunate incident, but it gives some insight into the hunting scene in France.
www.vttour.fr/photos/16390-10.jpg
I'm a between Bielsko-Biała and Katowice
Good point about range btw.
I think it's as likely that pasture would be given over to ungulates.
This is why we in Germany have a very strict law for hunting. There are allways only 1-3 hunters for a fixed area and nobody else is allowed to shoot anything. To be able to become a hunter you have to pass tough test both written and practical. In France and Italy it’s a total mess though.
After a fatal shooting of a hiker a couple of years ago Haute Savoie changed hunting from 7 days a week to no hunting on Wed, Fri & Sunday afternoon. I felt so unsafe I mostly rode on those days. It differs per region so if you do live in Haute Savoie you can use this app: Chasseco (play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.axory.chasseco)
This is an incredibly sad story, RIP.
When it comes to the population control of the boars, again yes in theory. But hunters actually feed them in more than one area under the excuse of keeping them away from crops. What is actually happening is that they are keeping the boar population high enough to have some fun on hunting days.
I hope the British Authorities do an in-depth investigation on how this happened. RIP
Your a f*cking idiot.
Terrible for everyone involved .
Human nature and firearms are not an error-tolerant combination and this will never change.
www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/8432909/Hunter-who-killed-friend-was-certain-he-was-a-deer
www.newshub.co.nz/nznews/hunter-thought-orange-beanie-was-deer-2012072717
Using the Dodzy example. Both were experienced hunters. The shooter was (from the police summary) a respected outdoor professional who check his sight twice prior to pulling the trigger.
This wasn’t about excitement, it was about his mind convincing him what he was seeing with a deer.
There several studies including ones used by UN to support my claim about global greenhouse emissions (Canada is one country, don't manipulate the conversation to fabricate your bs narrative). I didn't even get into our subsidizing the industries to support our industry. Further, every claim I made is backed by fact and anyone can google these claims to see more and see how full of shit you are. Now go away.
SORRY not trying to be mean...
It still seems crazy to me that people with guns can be so allowed to hunt in the same areas as walking trails etc on a weekend.
Let´s givem them some rights and restrictions, but every time more limited. This should not engage new generations (like this 22 year old) and let this old minded people the leave this world in "peace" and we all let freed of them.
So this whole thread has focused on fire arms and how scopes cause problems. I totally agree. That is a big part of why I switched to only hunting with a bow. While I have my own farm to hunt, the neighbors are less than a mile from me and I am very well aware of how far a stray shot can travel. So I stick to close range tactics only.
There are several public lands in my area that receive such a high traffic of people and hunters that fire arms are not allowed. Hunters must use bows only. I feel like this sort of regulation would help reduce hunter/trail user interaction.
Even if I'm against hunting for pleasure, if hunting is allowed, hunters have to take care about mtbikers, and mtbikers have to be carefull about when and where they ride.
RIP Man !
Not sorry....
The irony here is that the local Mairie bans mountain biking for most of the summer to keep the walkers safe,, yet hunting is allowed valley wide without informing anyone that it is happening.. sooner or later there will be more fatalities.. and like the tragic event in morzine, it will be because it is not a french local killed that it will get media attention from the nation of the poor soul that gets killed..
m.tdg.ch/articles/5bc75006ab5c3743f8000001
And well said.
I kid, I kid, people need to lighten up on judgmental condemnation when in reality they have no idea what happed. The Facepalmbook/Twatter generation is truly the rise of ignoramus extravagansus.
There's a reason hunting is strictly regulated all over the world, it's to balance different animal populations in a world we humans have f*cked up.
I'd rather eat fish than bugs.
I can not count the number of times I have seen hunters breaking these rules. And don't get me started about the beer cans abandonned in the three stands....
"In France, Between June 2017 and June 2018, the number of hunting accidents was 113
These accidents, all with firearms, resulted in 115 casualties, 17 of which were non-hunters. Of the 13 dead, two of them were not hunters.
The vast majority of fatal accidents are linked to a breach of elementary safety rules and in particular to the violation of the 30 ° safety shooting angle, unidentified fire and mishandling of the weapon."
So there are laws and rules to respect, but...
You won't believe it.
I worked security at a big hunting trade show in Salzburg Austria a few years back a few times.
Those hunters were literally drunk to the point they couldn't even walk anymore at 10 in the morning. And not just a few, no. More like 25% of the visitors. We had a mass brawl during lunchtime there. They definitely have a very bad drinking habit in general. And i like to drink myself mind you,so it's not as if i would comdemn drinking alcohol as such,but there's always a right time and place. This behaviour, the beer cans in tree stands and the general way hunters around here tend to behave tells you A LOT about their mindset. They think they own the forest and everyone else should stay the f*ck outta there.
I guess that's more of a european problem stemming from feudal times when people actually owned the land and others were forbidden to hunt there, because i've never had the impression american hunters had the same tendencies.
That's tje difference.
If you were to listen to (at least Austrian) hunters in private talking about this incident I'm pretty sure they'd toast to the guy shooting a mountainbiker (they hate us with a passion) and would just put it down by saying he should not have been riding there so it's his fault.
I'm not even gonna start about the stories i've heard during lunch about shot dogs and cats when i was sitting at the same table with a group of middle aged gentlemen...
Since then i'm convinced they are a bunch of utter lunatics.
Personally i do not even consider those people hunters.
They are tourists looking to experience the thrill of killing.
Real hunters are the people who hunt where they live and process the carcass for meat. You respect the art of hunting and the animal and do it as professional as possible. There´s nothing wrong with hunting as long as you do it for the right reasons, which the people you describe are not.
Going to another state or country just to kill a few animals is not a sustainable thing, it´s purely for entertainment purposes, so i think we and anybody serious about hunting needs to make that destinction.
You get out there, shoot an animal and are proud of your skills and the ability to provide for your family? Great, that´s only fair.
You go to another country/state and pay to waltz through the woods with your automatic gun mowing down herds of animals while drinking beer so you can brag in front of your buddies at home? You´re not a hunter, period. You´re an idiot with too big a gun.
Same shit applies down here, that sick mindset that they own the place, we as a country have the second or highest hunter % on total population, they f*cked every aspect of wild life and littering every creek and moor they go to. Not to mention the degress of all wildlife, nothing goes without being shoot at even other hunters! As long as they keep shooting each other is ok, at least maybe they self control the populasion
www.mesopinions.com/petition/animaux/arret-chasse-dimanche/15814
www.mesopinions.com/petition/animaux/reforme-radicale-chasse/47588
Cheers guys and girls.
Quality meat isn't that expensive and it isn't healthy for humans to eat too much of it. How about evolving like 95% of the planet and just eat the domesticated animals we've bred for that reason once in a while.
Just look at how most of those animals you eat, have to live.
If I was an animal I would prefer a free life in nature, untill a bullit stopped me.
If you are a meat eater then hunting for your meat is the most honest, environmentally responsible, humane way of procuring it. You are guaranteed the animal is healthy, has enjoyed its life in the wild eating what comes naturally and are helping conserve population of herd. To be a meat eater and get your meat from the meat counter at Safeway's, vacuum sealed, reared in captivity in a stressful environment, fed an unnatural diet and pumped full of hormones and drugs to keep it 'healthy', is hypocritical and naive. The majority of hunters are respectful of the environment, the outdoors and the animal and are extremely thankful that they are able to get their meat for their family from hunting.
Thousands of people would get shot and the deer, elk etc populations would be extinct in 6 months.
Genius.
I like leaving the deer for the cougars. That's their food and it stops them eating us when they can't find any.
I'm far from a vegetarian and hunting is stupid to me. If you don't need to do it in order to literally survive then you are just killing an animal for fun.
@mgolder if you eat meat and don't respect hunters vs factory farming you are part of the problem. We eat too much meat in today's age and have become disassociated with our food sources and it leads to ignorant comments such as yours. Would you eat that ham if you had to kill the pig yourself?! We would not have evolved as a species without hunting and factory farming is in part killing our society on this side of the pond.
A bunch of rednecks shooting shit random up in the mountains is hardly a civilized way to enjoy the outdoors is it?
Rest in peace Lord Crank
et mort aux enculés de chasseurs
That said, it sounds like the hunting culture in France might be pretty different from here (and scary as hell). Booze and firearms should never mix. Perhaps it wasn't a failure to identify target in this case, but some other factor.
They never say on which part of the mountain they are going to be also so it’s really complicated to ride safe when they are around the trails.
What happened is dramatic but I am not even chocked about this situation.
IF this is all fact, which hey could be, why did he decide of all places to hop off to the alps? I'd like to think that if the UK police, had just a whiff of any sexual misdemeanours being reported to them, they'd be applying for extradition for trail, faster than Steve peat on a downhill run!
France isn't exactly Russia when it comes to extradition, the UK wants some possible serious sexual predator back on it's soil for trail? you can bet your house, French cops will be busting down there door in a heartbeat, and slinging them on the next available flight to Heathrow!
Want to run a business in France? got a criminal record? forget about the idea! it's simply not happening. you will need scrutinising a fair bit, before you even get off the ground.
My point being, just because Facebook posts, a daily mail and sun journo say this is, what it is, doesn't make a dead man whom cant say sh*t, about sh*t being slung his way, guilty as charged by media. but what do I know? I'm not a jury nor a judge, and it doesn't much look to me, that either of those have been involved in this story.
You seen them (I did) having cognac and a cigar for breakfast at 7am, then you hear the stories about a dead hors3, cow, their own dogs... and then this.
Easy triggers out there, your place is in the army, bros.
Don't have much info, and I'd rather stay clear of the "stone-drunk hunter" stereotype, but it is really a massive phack-up with 2 lives shattered (the shooter's life is probably down the drain also), not to mention ripples across families.
I'd recommend to give up hunting and plays Petanque instead. Quite popular, involves throwing heavy metallic objects towards a target, and a yearly death rate that is a tad lower.
I've never met, nor EVER so much as spoken a word to any of these people I'm reading about, ..still true!
Journalist's wrote this, from the all knowing sun newspaper, and super factual daily mail, no less!.. without shadow of a doubt this is true!
I am a SHEEP, I believe pretty much anything, and everything, I don't see, or experience myself, regardless of fact, and evidence, that I really cant be arsed to look for myself, and will take anyone's word for either of them, I just love to judge others, on the slightest bit of bullshit that comes my way!.. welcome to my heard, Baaah!...this IS true.
I don’t understand why they just don’t allow hunting near used trail areas. There so much land that can still be used.
We ended up in a hunting zone last week in Belgium. Warning signs were only set up on one side of the woods. From the Dutch border we rode straight into the hunting zone... And then all of a sudden two guys with guns were standing in front of us on the trail, telling “the woods were closed for that day.....” At first we thought “f*ck you I’ll ride wherever I want” until we exited the woods on the Belgian side going into Germany, where we saw all these hunting signs....
I read up in the comments that hunters break biking features. Is there a way to confound them peacefully, such as buying up all the ammunition so there's none for them to use? If some one sees them out on the mountain we could follow them making a lot of noise or something - i don't know!
Failing that - ride with rape alarms and switch them on when riding away from main bike parks!
its a delicate balance, and while most meat will be eaten, and hunters mostly do it for fun, its also necessary.
(note that i dont hunt and think that most hunters in France are elitist, drunk pricks. us hunters are far more respectable. culture problem?)
finally like many i dont bike or hike if theres any sign of them hunters specially in France. a lot of places require signage and its never during the weekend so its not all that bad
In France, You are not allowed to shoot toward a road, a path, a trail unless you the road/trail is blocked and guarded to ensure nobody will go on it.
I have no clue about law in germany, but in France what you're describing could have been charged as "negligence criminelle" if you had been injured ( or killed). And the hunter can get till 10 years of jail for that.
www.nordbayern.de/region/beifahrer-in-oberpfalz-erschossen-war-es-ein-jagdunfall-1.7948038
www.rtl.fr/actu/justice-faits-divers/haute-savoie-un-cycliste-tue-par-un-chasseur-7795182249
and translated by Google Translate:
"As he rushed down a path at the edge of a wood, a 34-year-old mountain biker was shot dead by a shotgun."
That account is very different than a shooting from longer range through a rifle scope, so I think an accidental shooting by this means is very plausible. The shooter is exceptionally distraught, according to some articles. If they were hunting boar, I thinks that's how it works. A boar is rustled from the woods, shrubs, etc, by a dog in some hunting scenarios, and then shot at close range by a waiting hunter. If this is the case then the mountain biker was in the worst place to be. Very tragic. My condolences to his family and friends.
How dumb is the shooter? Don't know what a person riding a bicycle looks like? This idiot should be put in jail for at least 15yrs.
BASIC firearm safety; Be sure of your target AND what is behind it. If you aren't 100% about either you DON'T squeeze.
No wonder it's so hard to get firearms in the EU.
Hunting should be illegal. Nature is already struggling to survive, suffering by our actions. Why should we add hunting ?
After all hunting is no more than a sadistic "sport", drawing pleasure by the legal killing.
Also remembering Greg LeMond's hunting accident which he luckily survived.
I’m a rider/hunter I can’t ever see my self mistakeing anything for what I’m hunting but I often worry of being mistaken for something. I wear dark clothing year round for riding during deer season I do not I’ve seen way to many people that lack all 3 of the first things I put down in my post and I know it’s my duty to do all I can to prevent. Thoughts go out to everyone involved and anyone who has had similar things affect them
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45855897
Riders should be careful out there also when it is hunting season, wear bright colors!
RIP Rider, sincere thoughts to his family.
RIP and ride in peace
All hunters are c*nts IMO, pussies with guns who like to hurt small animals - they all need rounding up and setting on fire.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45855897
This was unfortunate and a reminder to always be careful, whether you are the hunter or riding in an area with hunters.
But is this a reason to condemn the hunters for hunting? Get real.
Cars (and other vehicles) have only ever been designed as transportation.
Your point is lacking basic intelligence.
People are using this as a reason to jump on hunters because of their own personal dislike for them, despite the fact that there are far more dangerous and harmful things going on out there.
That's fine, I expected nothing less. I stand by what I said.
To those condemning hunting and talking about nature's struggle to survive, take a look at what hunters have done to help endangered and threatened species, as well as preserve and protect wild lands.
Then talk to your insurance company about how many deer are hit every year on the highway.
This comment will just get down voted like the other because the crowd on here already has their minds made up, but I encourage you guys to think and do some reading.
Drivers (99.99% of them at a broad guess) only have a vehicle because they need to get somewhere... more often than not just so they can earn money.
Hunter's have never ever done anything to protect any endangered species. Ever... that's such a contradiction in terms it unreal. Thats like saying an arms dealer has done loads for world peace.
f*ck me next you'll be praising a paedo for opening an orphanage
Your comment shows that you are speaking purely from your emotional point of view. I can't argue with that because you don't want to open your mind.
I'm done with this. G'day.
And yes storming off and 'slamming the door' will prove your non emotional point. Bravo
But please do post a link to that fact, relevant to the continent we're actually discussing.
Its Europe by the way... go on do your basic due diligence.
Oh and remember that any fact can easily be backed up by more than one source, of which wikipedia is not accepted (at least in Europe anyway)
Go on amuse me... its all been hilarious so far
And for your sources
www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2017/10/trophy-hunting-killing-saving-animals This one is kind of a middle ground article.
www.fws.gov/refuges/hunting/hunters-as-conservationists
www-m.cnn.com/2017/11/24/opinions/trophy-hunting-decline-of-species-opinion-dickman/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F
www.untamedscience.com/blog/hunting-and-conservation
There is just a few. Mind you most of this is referring to the United States, but some refers to Africa, and other popular trophy hunting spots. I’m not sure about all the rules in Europe, I’m just trying to defend something that is in my culture, and that I love.
And going to the article about the mountain biker being shot, I think it is deplorable. Every single hunter I know is all about gun safety. The hunter should have been more careful, and followed basic hunting safety procedures.
I know a good few expats in France and very few of them have encountered fully sober hunters... just scroll up the posts here and you find a few.